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View Full Version : Hair color preference for 87 Baxter?


LuckyLadybug
12-10-2016, 05:24 PM
87 Baxter has the rather odd distinction of having almost every main hair color at some point, except black. (Barney Stockman would probably throw a fit that Baxter's hair is red on the old figure and in some of the video games!) Since canon obviously can't decide what color Baxter's hair is, it's up to the viewers to pick what they like best.

- Blond (A Thing About Rats/The Mean Machines, some of the video games and merchandise)

- Brown (The other human Baxter episodes and some of the merchandise)

- Red (Some of the merchandise and video games)

I'm still torn on what I think the hair color is after his transformation. It looks like a cross between blond and brown, but closer to blond.

I prefer brown, although I'm not sure why. Maybe because that's what I see the most of in the human Baxter episodes and so it's how I've come to think of him.

CyberCubed
12-10-2016, 05:26 PM
Its supposed to be dirty blonde, which is why it looks brown in some episodes.

LuckyLadybug
12-10-2016, 05:35 PM
Yeah, I'd thought of that possibility. But considering it's dark brown in a storybook and red on supplemental material and in some video games, I'd say canon totally got its wires crossed.

CyberCubed
12-10-2016, 05:43 PM
I always thought Dr. Chaplain in the 2k3 series was their take on "white Baxter" with red hair:

http://mutantooze.org/wiki/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Chaplin_TMNT.png

neatoman
12-11-2016, 01:53 AM
Isn't the real question about his hair why it was never black and curly?

pferreira
12-15-2016, 08:14 AM
Isn't the real question about his hair why it was never black and curly?Dear oh dear, you've come to the wrong part of the forum again. This is the part of the forum where people talk about the Fred Wolf cartoon. ;)

Anyway I agree with Cubed, it's supposed to be a dark blonde colour. Depends on who is animating it.

neatoman
12-15-2016, 12:11 PM
Dear oh dear, you've come to the wrong part of the forum again. This is the part of the forum where people talk about the Fred Wolf cartoon. ;)

Anyway I agree with Cubed, it's supposed to be a dark blonde colour. Depends on who is animating it.

So you support whitewashing then?

pferreira
12-22-2016, 10:38 AM
So you support whitewashing then?Who said anything about whitewashing? Have you considered that perhaps they made Baxter white because they felt uneasy having a black guy be a villain?

Prowler
12-22-2016, 11:53 AM
I honestly had never thought about it. And I honestly don't care.

neatoman
12-22-2016, 12:00 PM
Who said anything about whitewashing? Have you considered that perhaps they made Baxter white because they felt uneasy having a black guy be a villain?

And why would that be a problem? Pretty sure Black Manta had already been in Super Friends by 1987, so potraying black people as villains probably wasn't a problem... Oh yeah, and Bebop was also black! So it that argument doesn't even work for this show.

Baxter Stockman is a fairly standard mad scientist character, I don't think anyone would have been bothered if a character archetype like that was filled by a black man.

Prowler
12-22-2016, 12:36 PM
Baxter's race change probably shouldn't be looked much deeply into.

I doubt the FW staff was too concerned about being PC about such things. I mean, every Japanese character in that show had a stereotypical accent... except Shredder oddly enough. But his mother and his brother did. As did Lotus and that flower lady(man her accent was thick).

This were the 80s-early 90. It was pre-SJWs.

pferreira
12-30-2016, 09:56 AM
And why would that be a problem? Pretty sure Black Manta had already been in Super Friends by 1987, so potraying black people as villains probably wasn't a problem... Oh yeah, and Bebop was also black! So it that argument doesn't even work for this show.

Baxter Stockman is a fairly standard mad scientist character, I don't think anyone would have been bothered if a character archetype like that was filled by a black man.I don't think it really matters as you feel it does but check this out as some of the comments on the first page more less support what I said:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=39188

neatoman
12-30-2016, 11:35 AM
I don't think it really matters as you feel it does but check this out as some of the comments on the first page more less support what I said:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=39188

That's speculation, not actual evidence. Aside from some paraphrasing of Dan Berger (and paraphrasing of a rather old statement at that), there isn't much here to imply that was actually the case.

On the other hand I've found more concrete evidence (in the same thread) that would suggest the change wasn't made out of PC fear, but rather an attempt at copying Back to the Future.

I guess one could probably ask David Wise about it, but this early concept art shared by Steve Murphy suggests they really wanted to have Baxter capitalize on the popular "Doc Emmett Brown" look from the Back to the Future franchise.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/terrible2z/2331442448/in/faves-22047800@N07/
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2344/2331442448_26df5539f5.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/terrible2z/2331442448/)
TEENGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES - The Original Series :: Early "Baxter Stockman" concept designs by x (( 1987 )) [[ Courtesy of Steve Murphy ]] (http://www.flickr.com/photos/terrible2z/2331442448/) by tOkKa (http://www.flickr.com/people/terrible2z/), on Flickr

pferreira
01-05-2017, 10:58 AM
That's speculation, not actual evidence. Aside from some paraphrasing of Dan Berger (and paraphrasing of a rather old statement at that), there isn't much here to imply that was actually the case.

On the other hand I've found more concrete evidence (in the same thread) that would suggest the change wasn't made out of PC fear, but rather an attempt at copying Back to the Future.Yeah because the BTTF reference makes more sense than what someone behind the show as well as fans in the know have said. I mean listen to yourself man...WTF?! :o

neatoman
01-05-2017, 12:13 PM
Yeah because the BTTF reference makes more sense than what someone behind the show as well as fans in the know have said. I mean listen to yourself man...WTF?! :o

Dan Berger (as far as I know) did not work on the show in any direct way and the design document is more concrete evidence. Not to mention that the paraphrasing happened almost ten years after after the person got his answer, memories are not as reliable as documents when you get right down to it.

pferreira
01-05-2017, 01:10 PM
Dan Berger (as far as I know) did not work on the show in any direct way and the design document is more concrete evidence. Not to mention that the paraphrasing happened almost ten years after after the person got his answer, memories are not as reliable as documents when you get right down to it.But I think we can safely say Doc Brown was not the reason they made Baxter white and I can find other people on other forums who share the same view.

neatoman
01-05-2017, 03:08 PM
But I think we can safely say Doc Brown was not the reason they made Baxter white and I can find other people on other forums who share the same view.

http://www.besthealthmag.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/pain.jpg

Evidence, learn to analyse evidence, please!

People say a lot of things but unless it holds up compared to the evidence, it should at best be taken with a grain of salt. The only piece of hard evidence we have states Doc Brown as the inspiration, unless you can dig up some other document (a letter, a production bible, several formal interview of multiple people) that states otherwise, the Doc Brown reference is what we have to go on. Just because people think the reason was to make the PC gods happy, doesn't make it so.

pferreira
01-05-2017, 04:30 PM
http://www.besthealthmag.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/pain.jpg

Evidence, learn to analyse evidence, please!

People say a lot of things but unless it holds up compared to the evidence, it should at best be taken with a grain of salt. The only piece of hard evidence we have states Doc Brown as the inspiration, unless you can dig up some other document (a letter, a production bible, several formal interview of multiple people) that states otherwise, the Doc Brown reference is what we have to go on. Just because people think the reason was to make the PC gods happy, doesn't make it so.I'm sure there's less evidence to say Doc Brown was their inspiration than simply they didn't want a black person a villain. I mean the latter sounds more credible and rationale from the get go. To be honest I'm not sure why'd you even consider the former. :roll:

neatoman
01-06-2017, 03:15 AM
I'm sure there's less evidence to say Doc Brown was their inspiration than simply they didn't want a black person a villain. I mean the latter sounds more credible and rationale from the get go. To be honest I'm not sure why'd you even consider the former. :roll:

I'm asking for the evidence, so if you really do believe that's the case, show me the evidence.

pferreira
01-12-2017, 08:51 AM
I'm asking for the evidence, so if you really do believe that's the case, show me the evidence.Fair point. Ok try this: tally up the evidence you have for the typical reason behind them making Baxter white and tally up the evidence you have on Doc Brown being the inspiration. Then the fans can go from there. :)