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View Full Version : What if the first film was made like oots?


FredWolfLeonardo
12-28-2016, 10:59 PM
Imagine you're in 2014, and the first PD tmnt film is being released. It has the characters and plot of oots, but with changes such as:

1. Showing the turtles, splinters and shredders origin story with no Eric Sacks
2. No Vernon and Karai as these contribute nothing to the 2nd film.
3. The style and character designs of oots

How do you think this film would've done in comparison to the actual 2014 film, both in the box office and among fans/critics. How would it have affected the future of tmnt?

Autbot_Benz
12-28-2016, 11:53 PM
it would still be **** seriously the PD films are done lets just move on

snake
12-29-2016, 12:20 AM
It would've made the same at the box office as the first movie and got a sequel that would underpreform. The general audience doesn't give two sh*ts about what characters will appear or what influences the incarnation has.

TMNT is a name brand that generates interest on NAME ONLY. If the product is good, the interest stays. If it's sub-par (PDTMNT), the interest dies out.

neatoman
12-29-2016, 05:05 AM
If the first one was more like the second? It would still suck, just even harder. Look, can we just accept that neither one of these movies worked out and just hope Paramount learns from their mistakes?

TigerClaw
12-29-2016, 09:29 AM
Imagine you're in 2014, and the first PD tmnt film is being released. It has the characters and plot of oots, but with changes such as:

1. Showing the turtles, splinters and shredders origin story with no Eric Sacks
2. No Vernon and Karai as these contribute nothing to the 2nd film.
3. The style and character designs of oots

How do you think this film would've done in comparison to the actual 2014 film, both in the box office and among fans/critics. How would it have affected the future of tmnt?
The 1st film should've been Out Of The Shadows, The 1st movie had the opportunity to show Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang first, but they didn't, Even though the supposed script that was leaked did had Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang involved.

IndigoErth
12-29-2016, 11:04 AM
If it would still spend time on origin stories, then it might inherently have to be a different film.

I think in terms of the effort they improved on the writing, characterizations, and interactions of the Turtles themselves, had 2016 been the first then what would have come after it, had there likewise still been a push for improvement, might have been better enough to put it in position for a third. Maybe. Essentially starting midway up rather than starting at rock bottom.

Trying to be looney toons/OT aside, the Turtles were otherwise so much better in this one, makes me sad that everything else around them had to screw it over for them.

Andrew NDB
12-29-2016, 11:23 AM
Imagine you're in 2014, and the first PD tmnt film is being released. It has the characters and plot of oots, but with changes such as:

1. Showing the turtles, splinters and shredders origin story with no Eric Sacks
2. No Vernon and Karai as these contribute nothing to the 2nd film.
3. The style and character designs of oots

How do you think this film would've done in comparison to the actual 2014 film, both in the box office and among fans/critics. How would it have affected the future of tmnt?

It would resemble this, somewhat:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_Pj4L7C2twI/hqdefault.jpg

http://fooyoh.com/files/attach/images/3004/669/100/013/poo_party_unicef.JPG

_Pj4L7C2twI

Only with even worse costuming than that.

snake
12-29-2016, 12:31 PM
POO IN LOO

I love that video.

FredWolfLeonardo
12-29-2016, 05:40 PM
The 1st film should've been Out Of The Shadows, The 1st movie had the opportunity to show Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang first, but they didn't, Even though the supposed script that was leaked did had Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang involved.

I would've preferred a film with the general plot of 2014 but in the style of oots.

For e.g. Shredder and Krang are the main villains, but Shredder has the same role as Eric Sacks in the actual first film, while Krang is like Shredder from it, the big bad who operates from behind the shadows while Shredder does the fighting and misleads the turtles into thinking he's the main threat.

Heck, I wouldn't have minded the guy who played Eric Sacks to do the Shredder himself. A Japanese Shredder wouldn't have been necessary, due to the lack of Hamato Yoshi, and would've given us a different take which would add to the different stories of the tmnt multiverse.

The backstory of Splinter, the Turtles and April would stay the same, except with Shredder and Eric Sacks being merged into one character who is subservient to Krang, who wishes to unleash the mutagen on the city in order to terraform it into a Dimension-X type landscape.

Character designs would be like Oots, and the turtles would have a bigger role like the second film. However, the story and the tone would be more like the 1st film.

Casey Jones would not be needed as Vernon was already there as a male sidekick to April, and I liked Will Arnett far more than Stephen Amell.

Karai would've also been unnecessary without a Japanese Shredder, so she could be replaced by Bebop/Rocksteady as Shredder's henchmen. It would've been pretty cool to see the turtles fight Bebop and Rocksteady in the subway and snow chase scenes instead of Karai.

Baxter Stockman would not be needed in this film either and he could be saved for the sequel where he is mainly tasked with rescuing Shredder.

So the major characters would've been:

1. Leonardo
2. Donatello
3. Michelangelo
4. Raphael
5. Splinter
6. April
7. Shredder
8. Krang
9. Bebop
10. Rocksteady
11. Vernon
12. April's Father

LeotheLateBloomer
12-29-2016, 06:23 PM
It's really hard to say.

The thing is, I just don't see how you can do an OT styled movie using these turtles. You're trying to make your movie based on the most light-hearted iteration of them using possibly the most intimidating and repulsive looking ones. And if the tone, style, and everything else was the same, it'd still be compared to Bay's other films, most notably Transformers.

I say it's best not to dwell on it. What's done is done. ;)

Andrew NDB
12-29-2016, 06:45 PM
It's really hard to say.

The thing is, I just don't see how you can do an OT styled movie using these turtles. You're trying to make your movie based on the most light-hearted iteration of them using possibly the most intimidating and repulsive looking ones. And if the tone, style, and everything else was the same, it'd still be compared to Bay's other films, most notably Transformers.

I say it's best not to dwell on it. What's done is done. ;)

There was only ever one solution to this:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/6a/48/b5/6a48b5ebe9ac0cd8541513c92c095d35.jpg

Or this...

https://wiki.ece.cmu.edu/ddl/images/Weedwhacker.jpg

Walkabout
01-04-2017, 01:49 AM
Maybe they should have had the Turtles look like The Turtles, same goes for Splinter.

I can't look at those Shrek/Hulk abominations.

sgtfbomb
01-05-2017, 05:46 PM
A movie's success has little to do with the quality of the film and more to do with the quality of the advertising and it's release schedule. Unless we're talking about staying power, but that is a different story, and most movies aren't so lucky. So, typically, it is about that opening weekend (with international dollars as a bonus).

Most of the time, the advertising, accurate or not, is not meant to sell THE movie to an audience but A movie to an audience, not necessarily the movie that is being advertised. Though, I felt the advertising was pretty much accurate here. (Sometimes, they'll sell a film as being more a thriller even though it is a drama, for example). So, in this case, they hit the mark.

But the real test is the schedule and who the audience really is. The first film was successful, but it was released in August, which at least in the US, is a safer month and less hectic. In May, June, and July, almost every weekend has a new, major, giant tentpole release, sometimes two to three on any given week. Whereas in August, when the first Bay Turtles film was released, there is usually on a couple of ,amor tentpole releases and a few modest ones, but less competition.

It's quite possible, maybe even very likely, that had the first Bay Turtles film been released in the dead middle of summer, it wouldn't have been nearly as financially successful as it was.

Another factor is seating. In the past couple years, more and more theaters have been adopting recliner seating for every one of their auditoriums, as sort of a way to lure in audiences. Some even have 21 & up auditoriums with awesome gourmet meals, like steaks. I have 6 theaters in a 20 minute radius, 4 of them have these recliner seats and they are amazing. They also accommodate less viewers and benefit the theater and the audiences more than the studio. They appear to hold as much as 1/4 to 1/3 of theaters with traditional seating. So, a sell out at those 4 theaters isn't nearly as impressive as a sellout in the two theaters, with hold way more viewers.

I think these are big factors as to why OotS didn't do as well. I feel like quality has less to do with it. It seems like Transformers films, despite being for the most part awful, still continue to do well. The last film just didn't trend as well as a lot of the current franchises. No one was really like "OMG, look at the new Turtles trailer!" the way they were for new Star Wars and Marvel films. (Remember, we're not talking about the fanbase, but the general audience). Even despite a negative reaction, Batman V. Superman had a lot of attention. And then there was the OotS trailer, so tiny and small, trying to say "Hey, I'm here too!"

TigerClaw
01-05-2017, 06:45 PM
A movie's success has little to do with the quality of the film and more to do with the quality of the advertising and it's release schedule. Unless we're talking about staying power, but that is a different story, and most movies aren't so lucky. So, typically, it is about that opening weekend (with international dollars as a bonus).

Most of the time, the advertising, accurate or not, is not meant to sell THE movie to an audience but A movie to an audience, not necessarily the movie that is being advertised. Though, I felt the advertising was pretty much accurate here. (Sometimes, they'll sell a film as being more a thriller even though it is a drama, for example). So, in this case, they hit the mark.

But the real test is the schedule and who the audience really is. The first film was successful, but it was released in August, which at least in the US, is a safer month and less hectic. In May, June, and July, almost every weekend has a new, major, giant tentpole release, sometimes two to three on any given week. Whereas in August, when the first Bay Turtles film was released, there is usually on a couple of ,amor tentpole releases and a few modest ones, but less competition.

It's quite possible, maybe even very likely, that had the first Bay Turtles film been released in the dead middle of summer, it wouldn't have been nearly as financially successful as it was.

Another factor is seating. In the past couple years, more and more theaters have been adopting recliner seating for every one of their auditoriums, as sort of a way to lure in audiences. Some even have 21 & up auditoriums with awesome gourmet meals, like steaks. I have 6 theaters in a 20 minute radius, 4 of them have these recliner seats and they are amazing. They also accommodate less viewers and benefit the theater and the audiences more than the studio. They appear to hold as much as 1/4 to 1/3 of theaters with traditional seating. So, a sell out at those 4 theaters isn't nearly as impressive as a sellout in the two theaters, with hold way more viewers.

I think these are big factors as to why OotS didn't do as well. I feel like quality has less to do with it. It seems like Transformers films, despite being for the most part awful, still continue to do well. The last film just didn't trend as well as a lot of the current franchises. No one was really like "OMG, look at the new Turtles trailer!" the way they were for new Star Wars and Marvel films. (Remember, we're not talking about the fanbase, but the general audience). Even despite a negative reaction, Batman V. Superman had a lot of attention. And then there was the OotS trailer, so tiny and small, trying to say "Hey, I'm here too!"
Do you think the movie would've done better if they released during the fall season?

sgtfbomb
01-05-2017, 07:48 PM
Do you think the movie would've done better if they released during the fall season?

No, not fall. Because things start to ramp up again. But maybe August. Then again, maybe not.

IndigoErth
01-05-2017, 10:02 PM
Dead of winter maybe when the holidays are over and there is little else to do?

Or maybe preferably just look at scheduled release dates and pick what looked like the least competitive time to safely make itself a better option in comparison.

FredWolfLeonardo
01-05-2017, 11:56 PM
I think Oots should've been released in August like its predecessor as opposed to June, maybe that would've made it more successful.

Autbot_Benz
01-06-2017, 12:31 AM
nothing would have made OOTS successful people hated the Hack job that was the first one and knew ahead of time not to waste money on the sequel. You could cram every fan favorite in oots and it would still suck because Platnium Dunes are a shoddy production company and don't understand the Turtles.


I mean lets turn Casey from a bad ass street Vigilante into Whiny Cop Pussy Amell :roll:

Shellington
01-07-2017, 11:12 AM
Cleaner designs for the Turtles would have helped out.

But beyond that, I can't see anything else that could have helped the first film.

sgtfbomb
01-07-2017, 04:48 PM
Dead of winter maybe when the holidays are over and there is little else to do?

Or maybe preferably just look at scheduled release dates and pick what looked like the least competitive time to safely make itself a better option in comparison.

January. It was a month that used to be only duds. Now there is typically one major film out, the rest being duds and more serious films that do modest business like The Founder (which I can't wait to see, especially since it got pushed from August to compete in the Oscars).

If they were to make a more definitive Turtles film. Summer. With the competition, they will have to advertise the crap out of it.

Xav
01-08-2017, 12:45 AM
Cleaner designs for the Turtles would have helped out.

But beyond that, I can't see anything else that could have helped the first film.Better writing perhaps?

Shellington
01-08-2017, 01:13 AM
Better writing perhaps?
Can we really say that OOTS had better writing than the first film? :-?

LeotheLateBloomer
01-08-2017, 01:41 AM
If anything, I thought the writing was worse.

IndigoErth
01-08-2017, 01:51 PM
Imo it feels like these writers don't juggle different parts of a story all that well.

First film gave a lot of focus to the underlying story, but the Turtles lost out a lot.

Second film reversed it while they focus on giving the Turtles a lot more attention like they should (and I like this one better because of that), but the main plot falls very weak and seems clearly rushed half way through.

They can do okay/better on one thing, but not the entire thing... :tconfuse:

LeotheLateBloomer
01-09-2017, 12:27 AM
The first film had a horrendous plot but there was at least a slow setup. The second didn't really have a plot, it had sub-plots that were randomly thrown in as they go. Which proves that the writers of these films not only care less about lore (2014) but care less about telling a coherent story (OotS).

sgtfbomb
01-09-2017, 10:38 AM
Don't be presumptuous. Movies are written at three stages: pre-production, principal photography, and post-production. It's not uncommon for the actual screenplays (at least not the credited ones) to be M.I.A. from the latter two stages, not by choice either. In other words, don't blame the writers, blame the producers, directors, and even sometimes the editors.

To be fair, there is a major difference between plot and story. Fight Club doesn't really have a plot until the last act. Up until then, it is character beats and tiny subplots. The Dark Knight is mostly character beats, subplots, and short-term story beats, all "randomly thrown in as they go." Plot is nothing more than another word for a longline. It's the crap you read at the back of a DVD box.

IndigoErth
01-09-2017, 11:47 AM
At what point is the novelization of it written though? While there is a little that is different, it largely follows along at the same exact pace, building it up pretty good at first then once the Turtles have to run off to Brazil everything gets disappointingly rushed; quickly hitting different points in the plot to seemingly hurry up and get to the end. (Although [spoiler alert] they never defeat anyone in the book, they meet the police on the street - the end.)

Someone had to have handed the, er, novelizer, a screenplay that looked and felt largely the same, no? Leaving it probably unaffected by last minute editing decisions? (And maybe why it excludes the 'boss fight,' so to speak?)

sgtfbomb
01-09-2017, 06:32 PM
If something in the finished film doesn't work, point your fingers to the person/people who have the most control on the film, which in this case was probably Platinum Dunes, but could be a studio exec, as well. It is not so simple as to lay the blame on the writers. For the most part, the writers are the bottom of the barrel for the above the line crew and it's not very common for a writer to get carte blanche to do what they want and in this case, I doubt the director had final cut.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-11-2017, 07:40 AM
I think Oots should've been released in August like its predecessor as opposed to June, maybe that would've made it more successful.

It was during the 2016 Olympic Summer Games in Brazil. No good time for film release.

myconius
02-25-2017, 02:40 PM
it needed to be a musical i'm tellin' ya!!

https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-02-2015/pUtH3X.gif

Wolfie65
03-20-2017, 09:47 AM
1st film like OOTS ?
"Mayday, mayday, complete engine failure, have lost all communication, going......" (static)

Panda_Kahn_fan
04-07-2017, 01:22 PM
A movie with the basic premise of OOTS should have been made instead, but not the Bay movies we got.

It should have followed the original trilogy/2007 film in loose continuity. It should have started with a flashback showing the origin, then Shredder being beaten by the turtles, and sent to prison- end flashback. Then, follow OOTS's sequence of events LOOSELY in plot; Shredder is being trasferred to solitary confinement in upstate New York, and Rocksteady and Bebop and in the prison convoy with shredder. A chase scene where the turtles try to stop the Foot breaking him from the prison truck, and the three criminals get free. Baxter Stockman, the foots scientist, reveals he's made contact with a an alien being named Krang, and uses Krang's info to mutate rocksteady and bebop. Shredder strikes a deal with Krang to open a portal to earth. The turtles fight the foot and the two mutants all over the globe to stop them from assembling the pieces of the portal device, and have a final battle in New York to stop the technodrome and krang from coming through.

Casey and April already know the TMNT, and the turtles have their Henson designs, and actually use their weapons on the foot soldiers. Basically anyone who has seen any version of the TMNT before this could follow it. It wouldn't make everybody happy, but it'd make the most people happy.

Andrew NDB
04-07-2017, 01:37 PM
You mean if it had Bebop, Pizza, Cowabunga, and Krang... everything a fan would want?

4FtskX7lSZc

If the first one was more like the second? It would still suck, just even harder.

There is nothing I could post in this thread that wouldn't be summed up with that, succinctly.

Panda_Kahn_fan
04-07-2017, 02:36 PM
You mean if it had Bebop, Pizza, Cowabunga, and Krang... everything a fan would want?

4FtskX7lSZc



There is nothing I could post in this thread that wouldn't be summed up with that, succinctly.

Most people did not hate that movie because of the Fred Wolf-isms, they hate it because of the Bay-isims. Those elements are golden under IDW's roof. Nobody wanted the OT as interpreted by Micheal Bay. They could have done a more serious take on the OT, with decent designs and good storytelling, and most people (with a few exceptions) would have at least accepted it.

ProphetofGanja
04-07-2017, 02:42 PM
An exercise in futility

neatoman
04-07-2017, 03:02 PM
You know, the sad thing is that Gary Anthony Williams is a funny actor, he really is. I just wish his involvement with TMNT wasn't wasted on yelling "My Man!" and other annoying crap...

... Then again, the funniest character he has ever played isn't... PC. You wouldn't really be able to have say lines like these in a family picture, unless it was directed by Ralph Bakshi of course.

Warning, this is full of racial slurs and other offensive language.VcNsZeoCq2I

Andrew NDB
04-07-2017, 04:36 PM
Don't be presumptuous. Movies are written at three stages: pre-production, principal photography, and post-production.

Lately, with "films" like these, it goes...

Writer: OK, I've got 5 great Trailer Moments™ in my head!

*goes to plod together a script that somehow incorporates those trailer moments, however dodgily*

Panda_Kahn_fan
04-23-2017, 05:48 PM
I'm going to try putting this a different way....

In 2014, when the Nick series was in full swing, turtlemania was running high again, people had at least goodwill towards the franchise, and people were at least willing to give a tmnt film a shot, asnd everybody who was going to see this film already knew the gist of the origin.....

... a film, NOT made by Micheal Bay or Platinum Dunes, with writers, producers, and a director who cared about the franchise, with better turtle designs, a better written script, a Casey and April who look like Casey and April, the turtles already knowing Casey and April, and a flashback that tells the origin and first battle against shredder...

...under those circumstances, a movie that followed the chain of events of Out of the shadows (shredder busted out of prison, shredder makes a deal with krang to bring the technodrome to earth, shredder has Baxter create rocksteady and bebop, the turtles and the foot race all over the world finding pieces of the portal to dimension X, and a climax on the assembling technodrome to prevent Krang's war machine from appearing in NYC) without the sex and fart jokes, megan fox, whiny Casey, and good dialouge and martial arts fight sequences.... a movie under these conditions probably would've been a hit.