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View Full Version : Do you think the 1990 film will ever be equalled (or surprassed) in the future?


FredWolfLeonardo
01-16-2017, 11:06 PM
Its been more than 25 years since the original turtles flick and while I think the films after it have been interesting, I don't think any of them have ever been as great as the original or even great films on their own. (excluding turtles forever)

Do you think there will ever be a new tmnt film that will be on the level of the original or even above it? If yes, how do you think this would be achieved? (for e.g. Which characters and stories to use).

In this scenario, I wouldn't count turtles forever because as great of a film it was, it wasn't a theatrical release introducing a new turtles Universe, being more of an extended 2k3 episode in my eyes.

Powder
01-16-2017, 11:09 PM
No, I don't.

It's not possible to top Henson/Mirage. Not to mention that 80's/90's charm which cannot be recreated no matter how hard Hollywood tries.

PApagreg
01-16-2017, 11:41 PM
. Not to mention that 80's/90's charm which cannot be recreated no matter how hard Hollywood tries.

Why would they recreate the 80s/90s charm, as for surpassing the 90s film they potentially could but they need a decent crew which I don't see happening anytime soon after Bay tarnished the franchise's film reputation.

Refractive Reflections
01-17-2017, 01:11 AM
It could, but not anytime soon as this era of TMNT has left me disappointed (Nick series and the PD movies) and it would take another few years of the franchise being silent before a 4th era would begin again.

Powder does have a point since usually the introduction of a phenomenally successful franchise is hard to beat since both the movie, comic, and 80s/90s cartoon left such a high mark, which also explains why TMNT has been revisited twice because of its revenue potential from the past.

I think the bigger hurdle though, is trying to convince Hollywood executives that TMNT can be appreciated on a more mature level as the first movie did. The first movie was able to balance a more serious tone that an older generation could enjoy while not being too excessively violent that would alienate the child audience revenue. It was a time when Eastman and Laird still had some creative control over their work, and viewed TMNT through an artist perspective rather than a corporate perspective. Nowadays though, looking at the more immature tone of comedy with both the Nick series (I stopped watching after the second season) and recent movies, it seems that TMNT is more solidified into a child-targeted franchise for the mainstream while the more serious-toned TMNT comics are for a fringe adult audience.

Certainly I'm sure there is the artistic effort (creativity and writing) and talent to make such a proposed movie, but it's going to come down to the financial backing, and very rarely do Hollywood executives want to take risks since they approach entertainment from a business/corporate perspective.

ToTheNines
01-17-2017, 02:27 AM
Never in this cruel world. But perhaps in a parallel universe.

Candy Kappa
01-17-2017, 03:46 AM
There's always a chance, you just need that devoted guy/crew that gets the property and its themes, mythos and personality.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-17-2017, 07:01 AM
Do you think there will ever be a new tmnt film that will be on the level of the original or even above it? If yes, how do you think this would be achieved? (for e.g. Which characters and stories to use).

Fans who grew up during the 1989–1994 TMNT-hysteria are too nostalgic for confessing anything beating the original.

plastroncafe
01-17-2017, 08:28 AM
In order for a new movie to hold a candle to the first movie the people making it would have to care about it. They have to care about the characters, that have to care about the plot, they have to care about the production values.

And on top of that they would have to care enough to fight the studios.

I firmly believe part of the reason that the Nickelodeon cartoon has been drifting and quality is because of how much time must now be dedicated to fighting the powers-that-be on storyline and presentation.

Movies that angle for box office success, over quality just don't go the distance.

sgtfbomb
01-17-2017, 09:14 AM
Fans who grew up during the 1989–1994 TMNT-hysteria are too nostalgic for confessing anything beating the original.

So let's examine this film WITHOUT nostalgia. Hmm....

It's actually true. Within the series, nothing has beaten the original. It's a good film. It has its flaws, but they are insignificant flaws. It is the only film that balances the humor, heart, and action well. It has a grounded story. Yes, people could complain about its dated references. But it was made in the 90s, it's gonna be 90s, like every other thing made in the 90s. Deal with it. And, true, people could call its wayward teens subplot indicative of an after school special. But it was relevant then and it is relevant now. (Unless you wanna pretend that drug-addicted teens who steal things for money doesn't exist. Yes, it is portrayed a little differently in the film. That is called subtext and what is in the film is hardly preachy.)

From a financial perspective it is technically more successful than any other TMNT film. It was an independent movie made on a very modest budget and made waaaaayy more than 100% of its profit back. In fact, it made around ten times its budget back. That's, frankly, amazing.

The movie can be surpassed. It probably will be surpassed. But right now, it hasn't. Not even close. Not the sequels. Not the 2007 film. And, hell no, not the PD films. So when people talk about the 1990 film, it is NOT all about nostalgia. There's a legitimate reason. It is the best TMNT film made *so far.*

EDIT: I'd also like to add that it has the best live acton April. She has spunk, personality. So did Paige Turco, but Judith made April feel real, an actual woman. Charming, beautiful, and sexy but in a down to earth, real world way. She isn't just there for people who think women in movies need to reflect their browsing history.

Andrew NDB
01-17-2017, 11:05 AM
Do you think there will ever be a new tmnt film that will be on the level of the original or even above it?

Not under the Nick/Viacom banner, no.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-17-2017, 04:29 PM
So let's examine this film WITHOUT nostalgia. Hmm....

It's actually true. Within the series, nothing has beaten the original. It's a good film. It has its flaws, but they are insignificant flaws. It is the only film that balances the humor, heart, and action well. It has a grounded story. Yes, people could complain about its dated references. But it was made in the 90s, it's gonna be 90s, like every other thing made in the 90s. Deal with it. And, true, people could call its wayward teens subplot indicative of an after school special. But it was relevant then and it is relevant now. (Unless you wanna pretend that drug-addicted teens who steal things for money doesn't exist. Yes, it is portrayed a little differently in the film. That is called subtext and what is in the film is hardly preachy.)

From a financial perspective it is technically more successful than any other TMNT film. It was an independent movie made on a very modest budget and made waaaaayy more than 100% of its profit back. In fact, it made around ten times its budget back. That's, frankly, amazing.

The movie can be surpassed. It probably will be surpassed. But right now, it hasn't. Not even close. Not the sequels. Not the 2007 film. And, hell no, not the PD films. So when people talk about the 1990 film, it is NOT all about nostalgia. There's a legitimate reason. It is the best TMNT film made *so far.*

EDIT: I'd also like to add that it has the best live acton April. She has spunk, personality. So did Paige Turco, but Judith made April feel real, an actual woman. Charming, beautiful, and sexy but in a down to earth, real world way. She isn't just there for people who think women in movies need to reflect their browsing history.

Dated references at least are not negative.

Andrew NDB
01-17-2017, 04:35 PM
Yeah, you can't get mad about dated references. It's not like anyone set out to make TMNT (1990), like, this timeless classic. It worked for the time.

Jester
01-17-2017, 04:39 PM
True it has dated references, but the "heart" is pretty timeless. The characterizations and emotions are top notch.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-17-2017, 04:43 PM
It was an independent movie

It was produced by New Line Cinema. Here are the other titles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Line_Cinema

Candy Kappa
01-17-2017, 04:49 PM
It was produced by New Line Cinema. Here are the other titles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Line_Cinema

...

New Line was a small indie company at the time.

Jester
01-17-2017, 04:49 PM
It was produced by New Line Cinema. Here are the other titles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Line_Cinema

Actually it was distributed by New Line, it was produced by Golden Harvest. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Sky_Golden_Harvest)

sgtfbomb
01-17-2017, 09:26 PM
True it has dated references, but the "heart" is pretty timeless. The characterizations and emotions are top notch.

I never said the dated references were bad. That was in reference to another thread, where people are nitpicking the dated references. I was also thinking of the silly jabs people make about a film's datedness when they whine about nostalgia.

It was produced by New Line Cinema. Here are the other titles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Line_Cinema

New Line distributed the film, it didn't produce it. That's a pretty well known fact. For the longest time, it held the title as "The most successful independent film of all time" until The Blair Witch Project.

Andrew NDB
01-17-2017, 09:44 PM
For the longest time, it held the title as "The most successful independent film of all time" until The Blair Witch Project.

Bigger than Star Wars? Huh?

sgtfbomb
01-17-2017, 09:46 PM
Bigger than Star Wars? Huh?

Star Wars wasn't independent. It was produced by a major studio, 20th Century Fox. That's also a completely different ballpark.

TMNT '90 was definitely the highest grossing independent film until The Blair Witch Project. People often forget it was an independent film, perhaps because the word "indie movie" has a more "artsy drama" connotation and because of the cartoon was so popular back then.

DestronMirage22
01-17-2017, 10:03 PM
There's no way another film could surpass the original. It was an all-ages movie with a compelling story, satisfying action, good looking props, and most if all: heart. Something these modern movies lack. With Viacom running the show, if they make any more movies, they'll just be more kid-oriented garbage.

sgtfbomb
01-17-2017, 10:20 PM
With Viacom running the show, if they make any more movies, they'll just be more kid-oriented garbage.

It's not kid-oriented that is the problem. It's that they need to get the Transformers formula out of their heads. They tried it with GI: Joe. That didn't work. Now they tried it with TMNT. It's the wrong formula. In fact, trying to whittle down successful movies to a formula is what gets us into this mess, but Hollywood has done that practically since the beginning, so what can you do?

CyberCubed
01-18-2017, 01:28 AM
Also they'll continue to use CG for the Turtles instead of costumes. Its amazing how good the costumes for the Turtles/Splinter still look in both this movie and the second movie.

Considering these movies are from 1990 and 1991, literally 25+ years ago, the technology is so impressive.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-18-2017, 06:17 AM
It's not kid-oriented that is the problem. It's that they need to get the Transformers formula out of their heads. They tried it with GI: Joe. That didn't work. Now they tried it with TMNT. It's the wrong formula. In fact, trying to whittle down successful movies to a formula is what gets us into this mess, but Hollywood has done that practically since the beginning, so what can you do?

A new Transformers film has been recorded, and will be released to cinemas in June 2017

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformers:_The_Last_Knight

so sadly, we'll still have to wait some years before these films become something out of the past.

Andrew NDB
01-18-2017, 10:24 AM
Also they'll continue to use CG for the Turtles instead of costumes. Its amazing how good the costumes for the Turtles/Splinter still look in both this movie and the second movie.

Considering these movies are from 1990 and 1991, literally 25+ years ago, the technology is so impressive.

Literally all they have to do is use costumes and CGI the mouths, eyes. And cast, like, 4'10" martial arts stuntmen.

Sabacooza
01-18-2017, 10:29 AM
CGI should be used as a seasoning rather than the whole meal especially when live action is involved.

plastroncafe
01-18-2017, 10:31 AM
I would VERY MUCH get behind a TMNT movie that utilizes cgi the way this did:

uNJPSc_4RCI

Andrew NDB
01-18-2017, 11:49 AM
I would VERY MUCH get behind a TMNT movie that utilizes cgi the way this did:

uNJPSc_4RCI

I can't believe that's already 8 years old.

plastroncafe
01-18-2017, 11:53 AM
And look how good the SFX still look.
When it comes to CGI, less is more.

Andrew NDB
01-18-2017, 11:57 AM
And look how good the SFX still look.

True. And while I get that muscled skin suits are a little different than fur suits, I can't believe it's not way more cost effective to do in 2017 than it was in 1990. They don't even need to worry about animatronics beyond maybe, maybe some basic brow movement. Even with that, they could just Dot up the faces of the practical Turtle heads, then CGI map it to actors' face movements later.

Sabacooza
01-18-2017, 12:08 PM
Hollywood is just lazy. They have little desire to actually build physical objects.

THGhost
01-19-2017, 07:57 AM
I would like it to be, but I don't think it will. Like Powder said, it's not possible to top Henson/Mirage.

Hollywood is just lazy. They have little desire to actually build physical objects.

That's not strictly true. You'd be surprised how many Hollywood movies use practical effects, miniatures, etc as well as CGI. A lot of them still turn out to be terrible movies though, but the effort is still there :P

pferreira
01-19-2017, 08:36 AM
Do you think there will ever be a new tmnt film that will be on the level of the original or even above it? The original was great but like everything there's always room for improvement. I would like to see someone try and top an already terrific movie.

Andrew NDB
01-19-2017, 10:04 AM
it's not possible to top Henson/Mirage.

Wait, what does Henson have to do with Mirage?

The original was great but like everything there's always room for improvement. I would like to see someone try and top an already terrific movie.

A lot of room for improvement.

Sabacooza
01-19-2017, 10:14 AM
That's not strictly true. You'd be surprised how many Hollywood movies use practical effects, miniatures, etc as well as CGI. A lot of them still turn out to be terrible movies though, but the effort is still there :PSure they build sets to some degree but let's face it, a lot of movies have crap loads of CGI.

THGhost
01-19-2017, 11:44 AM
Wait, what does Henson have to do with Mirage?

Ask Powder. :P I don't think they meant they were the same. The 1990 movie took details from Mirage and had Henson effects is what they were saying I believe.

Sure they build sets to some degree but let's face it, a lot of movies have crap loads of CGI.

A lot do, but a lot also build things practically. Some use CGI for everything while others don't use CGI at all.

Sabacooza
01-19-2017, 12:19 PM
So I'm not wrong. Hollywood is still lazy. Moreso now than ever.

Candy Kappa
01-19-2017, 12:26 PM
by that regards, haven't Hollywood always been lazy. All that matte painting then actually making the scenery.

THGhost
01-19-2017, 05:02 PM
So I'm not wrong. Hollywood is still lazy. Moreso now than ever.

We're both right. :tcool:

Here's some examples of movies made in the last 20 years or so that used practical effects (http://screenrant.com/modern-movie-special-effects-no-cgi/?view=all).

by that regards, haven't Hollywood always been lazy. All that matte painting then actually making the scenery.

That's certainly one way to look at it. :P Creating matte paintings is still more work than using a CG background though, I'd imagine.

ProactiveMan
01-19-2017, 07:59 PM
Iím not sure why people think CGI is lazy. You donít just feed your footage into a computer, push the big red button, and go play golf for the rest of the day.

As for topping TMNT 1990Ö it wonít happen in this climate. As some people have already said, it would take some passion for both TMNT and filmmaking. I donít think Steve Barron was necessarily the biggest Turtles fan in the world, but he was definitely tuned into the style, and he knew what he wanted to make and how to do it.

Nowadays, movies arenít made by directors; theyíre made by studio executives. For the most part, directors donít have a lot of power under the current system, and thatís deliberate. Have you ever wondered why they keep hiring indi directors with one or two films under their belt, and let them direct 200 million dollar tent-pole movies? Because they donít have any power, or influence, and theyíll do as theyíre told or get their asses handed to them.

I donít think you can make a better movie than TMNT 1990 without a clear vision, and someone who is allowed to make decisions based on what is best for the film, rather than the concerns of toymakers, network execs, and angry nerds.

THGhost
01-19-2017, 08:07 PM
Iím not sure why people think CGI is lazy. You donít just feed your footage into a computer, push the big red button, and go play golf for the rest of the day.

For me, CGI has its place. It can be a very useful tool and can look amazing when done well. If something absolutely cannot be achieved practically or within the movie's budget, then use CGI. If it can be done practically and within the budget, then do it practically.

TigerClaw
01-19-2017, 08:34 PM
For me, CGI has its place. It can be a very useful tool and can look amazing when done well. If something absolutely cannot be achieved practically or within the movie's budget, then use CGI. If it can be done practically and within the budget, then do it practically.
CGI is very expensive to make, so the filmmakers try to shoot as much practical as possible.

ProactiveMan
01-19-2017, 09:17 PM
For me, CGI has its place. It can be a very useful tool and can look amazing when done well. If something absolutely cannot be achieved practically or within the movie's budget, then use CGI. If it can be done practically and within the budget, then do it practically.

I came across this video a while ago that adds some valuable insight into the CGI v practical debate:

qdDwrY5KpvI

Candy Kappa
01-20-2017, 01:08 AM
That's certainly one way to look at it. :P Creating matte paintings is still more work than using a CG background though, I'd imagine.

It is though, for som reason matte paintings on glass gets a free pass of "not being lazy" but matte painting in digital is seen as "lazy". You still need the proper skill set when it comes to sculpting, painting and how to make things move.

I've only got four years of education in 3D modeling and animation, but I can testify that it's not just a push of a button to make things.

ProactiveMan
01-20-2017, 01:25 AM
Matte paintings get a pass aesthetically too. The good ones are great, but a lot of them stand out like a sore thumb.

sgtfbomb
01-20-2017, 08:29 AM
CG is just a modern tool for special effects and is used for the same purposes that glass matte paintings and stop-motion animation were used for.

The issue is not with the f/x nor f/x artists, but with:

1) The designs. You used to hear that the key to a great design is whether or not it can be identified with just a black silhouette. There is a reason why I prefer Tim Burton's Batmobile over the Tumbler or any other contemporary Batmobile. It's simple, sleek, and easy to remember. The same goes for why I love the look of the 90s Turtles overs the PD Turtles. I understand the idea is to ground them, yet the 90s Turtles feel more grounded. It's because their designs are simple and realistic.

2) How the F/X are used. Going back to design, I think if a design as simple and recognizable as the 90s Turtles were CG, I can get behind that. However, it is not just the designs but what they are used for. There has to be laws of physics in motion for these guys. You have to feel gravity when they leap. But sometimes directors/producers/powers that be envision these impossible, incredible, unbelievable shots/stunts and it just becomes over the top.

CG can be a great tool for filmmakers though. There is this great shot in War of the Worlds where, as they are driving away in a stolen van, the shot goes into the van with the actors. out of the van, around the van, and into it again, seamlessly. It is an amazing shot that combines CG and different takes. It's an effective shot and far more powerful than the typical shaking the cam/quick cut/"Oh this is soooooo intense, too bad you can't see it" technique. They couldn't have done that shot before CG.

THGhost
01-20-2017, 06:18 PM
CGI is very expensive to make, so the filmmakers try to shoot as much practical as possible.

This is very true. I don't know why people always assume that Hollywood just uses CGI for everything these days. That wouldn't be cost-effective at all.

pferreira
01-26-2017, 11:13 AM
A lot of room for improvement.I was impressed. The 1990 movie was too well done for me to dismiss it as average.

slingtheory
01-28-2017, 07:03 PM
It can be done and probably will be someday. The first movie holds up as well as it does because it was made by artists and people with a stake in the franchise. all it'll take to get that again is a creative team who cares about the property and making something that respects it rather than exploits it. That was the problem this last go around. It's obvious viacom wasn't interested in what makes a good tmnt movie they just figured they could replicate transformers success by getting bay and Co involved. Unforunately they could care less about the tmnt universe and it showed in the final product

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-29-2017, 12:56 PM
CGI is very expensive to make, so the filmmakers try to shoot as much practical as possible.

The CGI-costs will probably be less expensive during upcoming years, as the technology becomes more and more common for every years.

Walkabout
01-30-2017, 03:55 AM
I think it could be topped, but probably won't be.

PS the 1990 film is from the decade(come on now)/era the TMNT were from, I don't see how it could be any more "dated" than the TMNT are themselves.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-30-2017, 08:09 AM
I think it could be topped, but probably won't be.

PS the 1990 film is from the decade(come on now)/era the TMNT were from, I don't see how it could be any more "dated" than the TMNT are themselves.

TMNT debuted in 1984, but the film was recorded in 1989. However, the original films are from the time the interest peaked.

RaphaelinSTL
02-01-2017, 08:27 AM
I feel like if the film makers and the studio have a passion and an idea for a great movies, there's a chance it could be equaled in some fashion down the line. However, it seems that producers and studios need to move away from the idea of creating a TMNT film just to make a quick buck as opposed to creating something substantial. The 1990 film had the perfect combination of heart, tone, character development and action. I would LOVE for a new film to get it right and reinvigorate TMNT on screen with the same passion that happed in 1990, but it has to start from the beginning of the project.

My ultimate dream is to have Guillermo del Toro create a TMNT film that blends together themes and story beats from Mirage, the original '87 series and some elements from IDW. I feel he's the perfect guy to get a story with some meat to it as well as bringing in the updated practical effects this franchise could benefit from.

All in all though, nothing can really touch the 1990 film for me. I still say it's one of the greatest comic book movies ever made and is severely underrated in the grand scheme of things. I love movies like Man Bites Dog, The Holy Mountain, Drive, A Clockwork Orange...but there's something about Steve Barron's TMNT film that continues to capture my imagination with every viewing.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-01-2017, 08:46 AM
My ultimate dream is to have Guillermo del Toro create a TMNT film that blends together themes and story beats from Mirage, the original '87 series and some elements from IDW. I feel he's the perfect guy to get a story with some meat to it as well as bringing in the updated practical effects this franchise could benefit from.

But does he know much about TMNT in general?

THGhost
02-01-2017, 09:02 AM
My ultimate dream is to have Guillermo del Toro create a TMNT film that blends together themes and story beats from Mirage, the original '87 series and some elements from IDW. I feel he's the perfect guy to get a story with some meat to it as well as bringing in the updated practical effects this franchise could benefit from.

All the yes!

RaphaelinSTL
02-01-2017, 09:11 AM
But does he know much about TMNT in general?

I think if he had the right team with him that knew a good amount about what makes these characters everlasting, unique and so popular...he could get up to speed on how to turn in a great film. He has the eye, the art and the vision to bring something amazing to screen and if he had some great writers and martial art choreographers with him I could see that movie being something really special.

All the yes!

:tgrin: It's pretty much my number one request at this point!

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-01-2017, 09:22 AM
I think if he had the right team with him that knew a good amount about what makes these characters everlasting, unique and so popular...he could get up to speed on how to turn in a great film. He has the eye, the art and the vision to bring something amazing to screen and if he had some great writers and martial art choreographers with him I could see that movie being something really special.



:tgrin: It's pretty much my number one request at this point!

Maybe he should work more with people who grew up with TMNT?

RaphaelinSTL
02-01-2017, 09:27 AM
Maybe he should work more with people who grew up with TMNT?

Pretty sure that goes in line with people who understand the characters like I said.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-01-2017, 09:30 AM
Pretty sure that goes in line with people who understand the characters like I said.

He would probably need a series of three films to tell a longer storyline.

THGhost
02-01-2017, 03:35 PM
This all sounds awesome. If only it could happen.

sgtfbomb
02-02-2017, 08:54 AM
I love Del Toro! i even spurged for that pricey Criterion set that was released not too long ago. He'd be great. He is also my dream choice for a Legend of Zelda film, if live action..... Studio Ghibli if animated :) ).

He's hinted at discussions about Hellboy 3, but that doesn't mean that film will get made. The thing about Del Toro is that he gets so many awesome projects lined up and then nothing happens with them. Some because of lack of studio interest (Hellboy 3). Others because they would be too expensive for an R rated film (At the Mountains of Madness). Others because, well, who knows? I have been wanting to see his take on The Haunted Mansion, that was reportedly going to include the infamous hatbox ghost, and nothing has ever become of that.

Sabacooza
02-02-2017, 10:16 AM
I Agree. Del Torro and his team are very creative. They could work wonders for a live action TMNT film.

Andrew NDB
02-02-2017, 10:17 AM
I Agree. Del Torro and his team are very creative. They could work wonders for a live action TMNT film.

He'd need to want to do it. If he doesn't "get" them and is just like, "Jes, jes ze Turtlez! I got it! Zey come out of ze shadows and zip zip zip and swoosh!" One, because he's at a point in his career where he isn't doing "work" and is only doing projects he loves. Two, because we may end up with a visually fascinating disaster.

But yeah, TMNT would be very, very lucky to land such a visionary director.

AquaParade
02-02-2017, 10:25 AM
Del Toro is such a fantastic choice for the next TMNT movie. Especially because it seems just within reach of being possible.
It's still rather unlikely, but it would make perfect sense.

RaphaelinSTL
02-02-2017, 10:33 AM
He'd need to want to do it. If he doesn't "get" them and is just like, "Jes, jes ze Turtlez! I got it! Zey come out of ze shadows and zip zip zip and swoosh!" One, because he's at a point in his career where he isn't doing "work" and is only doing projects he loves. Two, because we may end up with a visually fascinating disaster.

But yeah, TMNT would be very, very lucky to land such a visionary director.

Oh for sure, it'd have to almost be like a Christopher Nolan Dark Knight Trilogy type of perfect storm with a giant combination of good script/team wanting to tell a good story, passion and understanding of what makes the characters work and visionary director.

In a perfect world, Paramount and Nickelodeon wouldn't care so much about a live action movie needing to be dumbed down for general audiences and they could just be allowed to tell the kind of TMNT story that they'd want to make. You're right though, Del Toro would have to WANT to do it. I get chills thinking of what he'd be able to add to the franchise if all the pieces came together in the right way.

Del Toro is such a fantastic choice for the next TMNT movie. Especially because it seems just within reach of being possible.
It's still rather unlikely, but it would make perfect sense.

Exactly! It makes the most sense out of what he's been able to do and something that the franchise could benefit from. Glad that my dream suggestion was able to start up such a good discussion! :tsmile:

papa_smurf73
02-02-2017, 02:46 PM
Its been more than 25 years since the original turtles flick and while I think the films after it have been interesting, I don't think any of them have ever been as great as the original or even great films on their own. (excluding turtles forever)

Do you think there will ever be a new tmnt film that will be on the level of the original or even above it? If yes, how do you think this would be achieved? (for e.g. Which characters and stories to use).

In this scenario, I wouldn't count turtles forever because as great of a film it was, it wasn't a theatrical release introducing a new turtles Universe, being more of an extended 2k3 episode in my eyes.

Little late to the party here.... My opinion is this... The Henson film holds a HUGE nostalgic grip on my heart... It is by far my favorite turtle movie to date. Buuuuut... I do feel that we need something entirely different than what we've seen in the past in terms of TMNT flicks. In short, I'd prefer not to even see Turtles in the next movie that is produced... Lets not even mention their existence in the title of the movie. Instead, lets focus on strong character development of where their story begins.... That is with Splinter and Shredder... Share their story first! Why not demonstrate the internal struggles Shredder may have had as a man before he became a villain? I think there was a nick episode that kindly brought some of his story to light... It was short lived, but I think it had all the elements... My minds eye gravitates to the essence of batman begins. That movie was widely popular due to the fact it covered Bruce Wayne's back story so f*c*'n well... Assuming someone put a flick like this together... If there is a sequel, I don't want to see roided out turtles.. These are Teenagers! Not Lou Ferrigno or Arnie for god sake... They should be lean, and stealthy.. Maybe even not so goofy as they're often portrayed to be. Something more on the serious side. It is possible to have a serious flick that is acceptable to most age groups these days. Batman begins did it. Why not this property?

Sorry for the blob of rant. I'm at work multitasking... That's my opinion for what it's worth.

THGhost
02-03-2017, 01:23 PM
With del Toro's recent track record, if he did get a TMNT gig he'd no doubt have it snatched away from him by the film studio. A lot of projects have gone down the pan unfortunately, or received long delays. Which is just wrong, he should be treated with more respect.

Andrew NDB
02-03-2017, 01:34 PM
With del Toro's recent track record, if he did get a TMNT gig he'd no doubt have it snatched away from him by the film studio.

Did that happen on Pacific Rim? I don't recall him butting heads with any studio since, like... Blade 2, way back.

THGhost
02-03-2017, 07:42 PM
It was delayed heavily and he's no longer directing. I don't know the specifics though. Lord knows why a sequel to Pacific Rim took so long to get made. Hope it turns out good.

Wildcat
02-03-2017, 10:36 PM
Ya I think it will eventually. Eventually someone will take it more seriously and make a great Turtles movie.

The first is good but come on it could definitely be improved. So much more to make a movie from.

Now it's more like one big filler episode from 4kids...troubled teens falls in the wrong crowd - Shredder's behind it - turtles save the day (well Splinter)

That's the "best" anyone can do? Nah. TMNT is rich with ideas.

Shark_Blade
02-04-2017, 12:42 AM
It's already a tie for me with 2014 film so I can see it being surpassed currently or in the future.
There's no way another film could surpass the original. I know this is tmnt related but as overall in the industry, many films surpassed the original. It's possible.

Terminator 2.
Toy Story 2.
The Dark Knight.
Star Wars : The Empire Strikes Back.
The Lord of the Rings : Return of the King
Hobbit : The Battle of the Five Armies
Aliens
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Mad Max: Fury Road
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
Batman Returns

Chris
02-04-2017, 02:32 AM
It's possible but it would need a creative team that loves the property and has a clear vision for it & for that vision to then hit with fans and the general audience.

If the creatives only see it as a nostalgia cash cow then it will never happen. We might get a good/fun film that's better than the recent mess but they won't top the original.

Andrew NDB
02-04-2017, 03:21 AM
It was delayed heavily and he's no longer directing. I don't know the specifics though. Lord knows why a sequel to Pacific Rim took so long to get made. Hope it turns out good.

Nothing I've read about the Pacific Rim 2 stuff would lead me to believe there was some kind of huge falling out behind the scenes with Del Toro and the studio. I mean, something clearly happened, and it's a small miracle a Pacific Rim 2 is even happening at all given the box office.

ABrown
02-04-2017, 09:02 AM
For me, Turtles Forever isn't the other movie that's in my favorite two TMNT movies. It's the 2007 CGI TMNT movie that I've got up there with the 1990 movie as my two favorite TMNT movies.

shuriken
02-04-2017, 10:20 AM
Yeah eventually. I mean look at the Captain America Movie, it took 3 tries to get it right. TMNT 1990 had a perfect storm going for it. It was an indie film that had Jim Henson creature shop work on it, the TMNT craze was at its peak, the director/screenwriter utilized both elements of the cartoon and comic book to make a decent story that both kids and adults could enjoy. Plus the acting and chemistry by Judith Hoag and Elias Koteas (those two stood out IMO) really set it apart from other late 80's early 90's comic book movies like Punisher 88' and Captain America 90'.
Of course for that to happen people would have to WANT to make it and the directors and studios would need to be willing to make a risk. I don't see that happening any time soon.

THGhost
02-04-2017, 03:11 PM
It's already a tie for me with 2014 film so I can see it being surpassed currently or in the future.
I know this is tmnt related but as overall in the industry, many films surpassed the original. It's possible.

Terminator 2.
Toy Story 2.
The Dark Knight.
Star Wars : The Empire Strikes Back.
The Lord of the Rings : Return of the King
Hobbit : The Battle of the Five Armies
Aliens
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Mad Max: Fury Road
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
Batman Returns

I seriously wouldn't consider Toy Story 2 better than Toy Story 1. Technologically, yes. Otherwise, no.

You're right though, sequels can be better than their originals.

Shark_Blade
02-04-2017, 05:20 PM
I seriously wouldn't consider Toy Story 2 better than Toy Story 1. Technologically, yes. Otherwise, no.

You're right though, sequels can be better than their originals.

State your reasons instead of just saying no? Otherwise people can't see your view.

Both got 100% on rotten tomatoes though so I ain't gonna fret. :trazz:

But I'll raise you the some scenes of Toy Story 2 which makes it greater than the original imo.

Jessie's sad scene (the original doesn't have any heart wrenching moment or as powerful moving moment)
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Buzz Lightyear spectacular game opening scene (nothing as superb visually in the original)
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Epic Buzz vs Zurg and Star Wars scene (the original has Sid as the villain but eh I prefer Zurg as he is stylish and a toy and he became a good guy in the end)
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The toys come to rescue in a team (as opposed to only Woody alone and those other Sid's forgettable trainwreck toys)
eYpWdNN-KJ4

A really famous/legendary/popular toy cameo in Toy Story. Barbie! (Original had no such thing)
kX4ABefuIQg
There's also an addition of the lovely Mrs Potatohead!

This toy fixing scene is just gold to watch. Very professional and full of passion. So aesthetically pleasing! (Nothing really captivating with how humans treat the toys in the original. Well there's Sid burning Woody's forehead but eh that's lame)
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Woody and his team as special collector's item pieces. it really reminds you that toys are more than mere child's plaything (the latter was the only focus in toy story 1. And I hated those simplistic kindergarten toys in Toy Story 3). Here they are treated as priceless artefacts. A marvel to behold.
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More epic chase scene at the airport
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Much better theme song
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Pretty much everything is better than the original.

sgtfbomb
02-04-2017, 07:28 PM
I actually personally don't consider neither Aliens nor T2 to be better than the original. I used to think that way when I was younger and thought "bigger and more action" meant "better movie." But as I've gotten older, I think they are good, but not better than their originals.

Andrew NDB
02-04-2017, 10:08 PM
I actually personally don't consider neither Aliens nor T2 to be better than the original. I used to think that way when I was younger and thought "bigger and more action" meant "better movie." But as I've gotten older, I think they are good, but not better than their originals.

You and I think exactly the same way on this.

DestronMirage22
02-04-2017, 10:59 PM
I actually personally don't consider neither Aliens nor T2 to be better than the original. I used to think that way when I was younger and thought "bigger and more action" meant "better movie." But as I've gotten older, I think they are good, but not better than their originals.

I can certainly agree with this. After having seen the first two Alien films back-to-back, I can see why people like Aliens more, but I kinda think that the original is better. While the sequal expanded the mythos and provided more action, it lacked the focus on the story and characterization the original had. Aliens just isn't as suspenseful as its predecessor, and just can't beat the classic, even though it's still a fantastic movie.

NYShell
02-05-2017, 10:39 AM
It's very possible a new live action movie could level up to and maybe surpass the 1990 film --- if it's in the right hands. But, just remember whose hands the property is under. Ever since the buyout in 2009(?), we've been getting such mediocrity, while being given little easter eggs in every Turtle medium to make us believe they're "servicing all the fans". They honestly haven't done anything groundbreaking with the property. People get suckered into it easily though.

Getting more to the point: it's possible but highly unlikely with who owns the property.

THGhost
02-05-2017, 04:18 PM
State your reasons instead of just saying no? Otherwise people can't see your view.

I'll post on your wall as to not completely derail this thread.

sgtfbomb
02-05-2017, 07:27 PM
I can certainly agree with this. After having seen the first two Alien films back-to-back, I can see why people like Aliens more, but I kinda think that the original is better. While the sequal expanded the mythos and provided more action, it lacked the focus on the story and characterization the original had. Aliens just isn't as suspenseful as its predecessor, and just can't beat the classic, even though it's still a fantastic movie.

The original Alien was more psychological. It played around claustrophobia, the unknown, tensions, etc. Like Michael Myers in the original Halloween, the creature had an omnipresent sense to it. It could be anywhere, pop out at any place.

RaphaelsIsolation
02-08-2017, 09:05 AM
No it can't be topped. TMNT hit a peak around 1989-1991. In those years it was at it's best in everyway I think.

The only way the first movie could ever be challenged is if they went back to the humanoid turtles, and remade some of the comics into movies with a spin.

I mean who wouldn't love to see City at War in movie form?

Tetsu Deinonychus
02-08-2017, 12:26 PM
You and I think exactly the same way on this.

Add me to the list! In fact I like the original Terminator much more than T2. The original is a brilliant sci-fi/horror/noir film that stands on it's own without any sequels. It's like a really good Twilight Zone or Outer Limits episode.

T2 and all the other sequels are just explody action movies, that are fun to watch, and entertaining but not some kind of "masterpiece" that surpasses the original (and their existence kind of undermines what made the original so brilliant).

Anyway, I don't think it's impossible to make a TMNT film as good as or better than the first 1990 movie. It's just very unlikely while TMNT is owned by a company that sees it primarily as a kid's toy franchise. But, if they would just give it to a good director (NOT MICHAEL BAY!!!), that also cares about TMNT as a whole and is aware of the whole franchise and not just vague memories of the FW cartoon. It could still happen.

Andrew NDB
02-08-2017, 01:36 PM
while TMNT is owned by a company that sees it primarily as a kid's toy franchise. But, if they would just give it to a good director (NOT MICHAEL BAY!!!), that also cares about TMNT as a whole and is aware of the whole franchise and not just vague memories of the FW cartoon

In other words... zero chance anytime in the foreseeable future.

Powder
02-08-2017, 02:06 PM
No it can't be topped. TMNT hit a peak around 1989-1991. In those years it was at it's best in everyway I think.

The only way the first movie could ever be challenged is if they went back to the humanoid turtles, and remade some of the comics into movies with a spin.

I mean who wouldn't love to see City at War in movie form?

What do you mean by "back to humanoid"? They've always been humanoid.

& personally, I don't really want a CAW movie. It wouldn't be true to the comics even if they did it, anyway.

RaphaelsIsolation
02-08-2017, 02:52 PM
I mean more like the original look. Not so bulky and turtle like I guess.

The last 2 movies had them more realistic looking and bulky I guess. I'd like them to be human looking like the original 3 movies.

Yeah I mean it would get murdered... but I would love a movie from the comics somehow. Wouldn't that be cool?

Powder
02-08-2017, 02:56 PM
Got ya. I don't really consider the PD designs to be more turtle-like, myself. The plastron & carapace aren't even connected, bad news for their physicality. :tlol: But yeah, we all long for a more traditional TMNT design, I'm sure.

Of couse it would be cool, but it's gotta be right. & as 4kids, Nick & others have proved, it's not easy getting Mirage right, if by comics you mean Mirage. The first flick (1990) was a pretty strong pull of that material but even they could've done better. I don't think we'll ever get anything closer to them than that, especially now that the goofy ass Fred Wolf stuff is being further cemented into infamy as the "definitive" vision by people who don't even care about the property as much as we do. :(

RaphaelsIsolation
02-08-2017, 03:01 PM
Yeah the OT is kinda wacky and I guess bad overall. I mean it has a large place in my heart for being "good" when it isn't actually "good".

I just grew up with it, and it is what I like most honestly. The style, the fun part of it.. I prefer it to the 4kids version.

Outside of the 1st couple seasons, the 10 years it was out, 2/3 of it was mundane, and blah overall. Truth be told the 4kids is better I guess, but my favorite will always be the OT.

THGhost
02-09-2017, 07:47 AM
Nostalgia is a powerful thing. I bet the average person isn't even aware that there are other versions of TMNT besides the 80s cartoon; maybe the PD movies.

pferreira
02-09-2017, 08:27 AM
I know this is tmnt related but as overall in the industry, many films surpassed the original. It's possible.

Terminator 2.
Toy Story 2.
The Dark Knight.
Star Wars : The Empire Strikes Back.
The Lord of the Rings : Return of the King
Hobbit : The Battle of the Five Armies
Aliens
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Mad Max: Fury Road
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
Batman ReturnsProbably have to disagree on all of these.

I actually personally don't consider neither Aliens nor T2 to be better than the original. I used to think that way when I was younger and thought "bigger and more action" meant "better movie." But as I've gotten older, I think they are good, but not better than their originals.Couldn't agree more. The original somehow always works better because it's the original.

Nostalgia is a powerful thing. I bet the average person isn't even aware that there are other versions of TMNT besides the 80s cartoon; maybe the PD movies.Why would they? They never grew up with other versions of the Turtles. Anyway I'm proud to like the Fred Wolf series. I see nothing wrong with it. 8)

RaphaelsIsolation
02-09-2017, 08:37 AM
I mean its all subjective...

In general I do believe the original film is always going to be better.

I do think The Empire Strikes Back is better than "A New Hope" for sure though. And who in the hell doesn't think "Dark Knight" isn't better than Batman Begins.

That is almost a crime. Ledger's performance is a masterpiece.

Andrew NDB
02-09-2017, 12:07 PM
I bet the average person isn't even aware that there are other versions of TMNT besides the 80s cartoon

I bet the "Average Person" nowadays beyond us old fogeys isn't even aware of that version. But now they're being constantly reminded of it and reinforced time and again that "That's the TMNT." By the nostalgiacs.

CyberCubed
02-09-2017, 12:27 PM
Nostalgia is a powerful thing. I bet the average person isn't even aware that there are other versions of TMNT besides the 80s cartoon; maybe the PD movies.

The Nick cartoon and IDW comic have been very popular, there's got to be people who know about them. The IDW comic averages 16,000-20,000 sales per issue, then there's the trades.

The Nick cartoon had 1-3 million viewers per most episodes.

RaphaelsIsolation
02-09-2017, 12:37 PM
I bet the "Average Person" nowadays beyond us old fogeys isn't even aware of that version. But now they're being constantly reminded of it and reinforced time and again that "That's the TMNT." By the nostalgiacs.

Well that is why it's called the "original toon" dude.

And thanks for replying to my PM I sent you, real classy.

Powder
02-09-2017, 03:14 PM
Nostalgia is a powerful thing. I bet the average person isn't even aware that there are other versions of TMNT besides the 80s cartoon; maybe the PD movies.

Maybe not in the UK, but definitely here stateside. There's Nick TMNT merch in literally every store you could possibly think of, & it's been that way for 4 years now. & I don't mean just toys, I mean all kinds of stuff. Pillows & blankets, clothes, party supplies, home decor, office supplies, virtually anything you can think of, & it's sprinkled all throughout these places, you can't miss it.

sgtfbomb
02-09-2017, 03:45 PM
I bet there a lot more than you think who are aware of TMNT outside the 80s cartoon. A lot of people who grew up watching it as a kid now have kids who watch the new show.

There is also a generation that grew up with the 2000s cartoon and many of those people have kids who might possibly watch the Nick show.

Plus, the earlier generation grew up with the 90s movies and I am sure many of the latter watched those movies, as well, not to mention the 2007 film and the PD films.

Anarchistguy
02-09-2017, 03:54 PM
Nostalgia aside, I don't think any movie made in this era will ever be as good as the 1990 TMNT film. People today think of the TMNT as a kid's franshise. and to most (not to me), the Fred Wolf cartoon is the definitive incarnation. Worse than that, the casual public thinks the TMNT are composed of four Michelangelos, Very annoying...


It's already a tie for me with 2014 film so I can see it being surpassed currently or in the future.
I know this is tmnt related but as overall in the industry, many films surpassed the original. It's possible.

Terminator 2.
Toy Story 2.
The Dark Knight.
Star Wars : The Empire Strikes Back.
The Lord of the Rings : Return of the King
Hobbit : The Battle of the Five Armies
Aliens
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Mad Max: Fury Road
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
Batman Returns

I also disagree with most of that list. Batman Returns better than Batman 1989? Mad Max Fury Road better than Mad Max 1978?? Aliens Better than Alien??? No way in hell!!!

THGhost
02-09-2017, 04:26 PM
I also disagree with most of that list. Batman Returns better than Batman 1989? Mad Max Fury Road better than Mad Max 1978?? Aliens Better than Alien??? No way in hell!!!

Batman Returns better than Batman 1989? Mad Max Fury Road better than Mad Max 1978?? Aliens Better than Alien??? No way in hell!!!

Batman Returns is better than Batman 1989, and Mad Max: Fury Road is heaps better than Mad Max 1978. C'mon, the only thing of note that happens in Mad Max 1978 is his family dying, and The Road Warrior tells you that right at the start. The rest of the movie is a snoozefest.

Why would they? They never grew up with other versions of the Turtles. Anyway I'm proud to like the Fred Wolf series. I see nothing wrong with it. 8)

Because...

The Nick cartoon and IDW comic have been very popular, there's got to be people who know about them. The IDW comic averages 16,000-20,000 sales per issue, then there's the trades.

The Nick cartoon had 1-3 million viewers per most episodes.

...this is why.

Oh and Cubed, people who read the comics are obviously going to know about the different versions of TMNT. :P

Maybe not in the UK, but definitely here stateside. There's Nick TMNT merch in literally every store you could possibly think of, & it's been that way for 4 years now. & I don't mean just toys, I mean all kinds of stuff. Pillows & blankets, clothes, party supplies, home decor, office supplies, virtually anything you can think of, & it's sprinkled all throughout these places, you can't miss it.

I envy those places. The only thing related to the 2K3 series I've ever seen for sale in recent years is the "rare" UK/AU DVD of Turtles Forever. Everything else is FW & Nick.
I'd love to know where "these places" are, because they'd be getting a lot of my money. :P

I've even met people who think every version of TMNT are the same thing. :lol:

People today think of the TMNT as a kid's franshise. and to most (not to me), the Fred Wolf cartoon is the definitive incarnation. Worse than that, the casual public thinks the TMNT are composed of four Michelangelos, Very annoying...

This is very true and it irks me so.

Thank goodness places like The Technodrome forums exist. :tcool:

I bet there a lot more than you think who are aware of TMNT outside the 80s cartoon. A lot of people who grew up watching it as a kid now have kids who watch the new show.

There is also a generation that grew up with the 2000s cartoon and many of those people have kids who might possibly watch the Nick show.

Plus, the earlier generation grew up with the 90s movies and I am sure many of the latter watched those movies, as well, not to mention the 2007 film and the PD films.

I sincerely hope you are right.

I bet the "Average Person" nowadays beyond us old fogeys isn't even aware of that version. But now they're being constantly reminded of it and reinforced time and again that "That's the TMNT." By the nostalgiacs.

*Shudders*

RaphaelinSTL
02-10-2017, 08:49 AM
I actually personally don't consider neither Aliens nor T2 to be better than the original. I used to think that way when I was younger and thought "bigger and more action" meant "better movie." But as I've gotten older, I think they are good, but not better than their originals.

You and I think exactly the same way on this.

Same here, 100%

It's probably why when I was little I was enthralled with Batman Forever so much considering how it upped the action so much...but it's such a bad movie compared to the first two.

It's not to say that action doesn't have it's place, just as long as mindless, expensive looking action isn't the main idea. Look at that first Raid movie, it has such a simple plot but it's insanely focused and the action helps tell the story instead of a mindless detour.

THGhost
02-10-2017, 09:12 AM
Look at that first Raid movie, it has such a simple plot but it's insanely focused and the action helps tell the story instead of a mindless detour.

What did you think of The Raid 2? That had more of a story than the first one but also ramped up the action.

RaphaelinSTL
02-10-2017, 09:33 AM
What did you think of The Raid 2? That had more of a story than the first one but also ramped up the action.

It was fine, but I thought they lost momentum with adding so much to the story. Clearly they wouldn't and shouldn't just do a carbon copy of the first film, but I find myself getting more out of the first movie than anything.

If only a new TMNT film could have such incredible choreographed and realistic fighting scenes. :tcry::tcry:

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-11-2017, 06:33 AM
Worse than that, the casual public thinks the TMNT are composed of four Michelangelos, Very annoying...

I've never heard anything like that before.

TigerClaw
02-11-2017, 06:44 AM
It was fine, but I thought they lost momentum with adding so much to the story. Clearly they wouldn't and shouldn't just do a carbon copy of the first film, but I find myself getting more out of the first movie than anything.

If only a new TMNT film could have such incredible choreographed and realistic fighting scenes. :tcry::tcry:
Realistic fighting scenes would have a lot of blood and gore, which is what happens when you have Ninjas fighting each other, But we'll never see that in a TMNT movie.

RaphaelinSTL
02-11-2017, 09:22 AM
Realistic fighting scenes would have a lot of blood and gore, which is what happens when you have Ninjas fighting each other, But we'll never see that in a TMNT movie.

Well, if not realistic...better paced and more fluent. Something that doesn't feel as jerky and video game cut scene-ish as those Bay movies do.

THGhost
02-11-2017, 09:47 AM
I've never heard anything like that before.

I certainly have.

It was fine, but I thought they lost momentum with adding so much to the story. Clearly they wouldn't and shouldn't just do a carbon copy of the first film, but I find myself getting more out of the first movie than anything.

I can dig that. Less is more.

Tetsu Deinonychus
02-11-2017, 10:45 AM
I like the FW show just fine, but I still don't want all TMNT media to forever more be based off of it.

The general public was able to get past the Adam West Batman and accept more serious takes on him while still giving the wacky 60s version it's treasured place in pop-culture. Why can't it do the same with TMNT?

sgtfbomb
02-12-2017, 02:33 PM
I've never heard anything like that before.

I think the idea is that some people see the Turtles as pizza-loving amphibians that say "Cowabunga dude!" in surfer accents and don't necessarily see the distinct personalities.

THGhost
02-12-2017, 04:18 PM
I think the idea is that some people see the Turtles as pizza-loving amphibians that say "Cowabunga dude!" in surfer accents and don't necessarily see the distinct personalities.

This. https://cdn3.iconfinder.com/data/icons/musthave/128/Stock%20Index%20Up.png

TigerClaw
02-12-2017, 05:21 PM
I think the idea is that some people see the Turtles as pizza-loving amphibians that say "Cowabunga dude!" in surfer accents and don't necessarily see the distinct personalities.
But they do have distinct personalities, Michelangelo is the only one that sounded like a surfer dude.

Coola Yagami
02-12-2017, 06:53 PM
Someone just needs to make a good tmnt movie that isn't afraid to show a little blood. Just do it.

It's like batman begins. They could have just let the franchise die forever or 'play ot safe' and continue with more Adam West shenanigans... or they could take a risk like Nolan and just do it.

Andrew NDB
02-12-2017, 06:54 PM
I know he wouldn't... but can you imagine a Christopher Nolan TMNT movie?

THGhost
02-12-2017, 07:52 PM
But they do have distinct personalities, Michelangelo is the only one that sounded like a surfer dude.

Try telling those people that though. :roll:

I know he wouldn't... but can you imagine a Christopher Nolan TMNT movie?

That would be insane. Like del Toro though, he'd have to want to do it. No half-assing it. We've seen how half-assing it worked out with TMNT numerous times.

neatoman
02-13-2017, 04:41 AM
I know he wouldn't... but can you imagine a Christopher Nolan TMNT movie?

Like his Batman movies? Would that really still be a TMNT movie though? I mean, this is the guy who chose to get rid most of the sci-fi/fantasy elements of Batman. Ra's al Ghul wasn't immortal, Joker's skin wasn't bleeched, Bane didn't have a muscle enhancing drug, etc. What kind of TMNT movie do you get from that lense?

"You're dead, freaks!! Nobody trespasses on Purple Dragon turf and gets away with it... Especially when they're wearing stupid turtle costumes!"

"He's right... We're wearing costumes."

NOLAN AND GOYER'S TEENAGE COSTUMED NINJA HUMANS

Shark_Blade
02-13-2017, 07:29 AM
Nolan's films are better than most other Batman films tbh (still can't beat Batman Returns, that one is exceptionally amazing). He really did save the Batman franchise eventhough with a shaky start (Batman Begins was so boring and a snoozefest. Thank God for Heath Ledger in the sequel).

In ranking, I'd go like this.

Batman Returns
The Dark Knight
Batman v Superman: Dawn Of Justice
The Dark Knight Rises
Suicide Squad - Short appearance
BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS
Batman
Batman Forever
BATMAN: UNDER THE RED HOOD
BATMAN: YEAR ONE
Batman Begins
Batman & Robin
Batman: The Movie/Adam West

I'm sure Nolan can bring something great if he ever direct TMNT too.

RaphaelinSTL
02-13-2017, 09:42 AM
Yeah, I'd be keen on anyone with a good vision to really take control of the franchise. Unlike around 1994-2007, I think there's still enough momentum IP wise for TMNT that they'd want to get the ball rolling into another movie maybe in the next 2-3 years or so?

I mentioned this in the other PD thread, but I honestly feel like the next thing we'll get out the gate will be an animated film. I just wonder if Paramount and Nickelodeon were so caught off guard by the lack of return of investment for the sequel that they'd want to counter act that by going animated, so the production budget doesn't sky rocket again. Not that it'd be a bad thing, maybe they'd actually release an animated TMNT movie that'd be worth a damn.

Nolan's films are better than most other Batman films tbh (still can't beat Batman Returns, that one is exceptionally amazing). He really did save the Batman franchise eventhough with a shaky start (Batman Begins was so boring and a snoozefest. Thank God for Heath Ledger in the sequel).

In ranking, I'd go like this.

Batman Returns
The Dark Knight
Batman v Superman: Dawn Of Justice
The Dark Knight Rises
Suicide Squad - Short appearance
BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS
Batman
Batman Forever
BATMAN: UNDER THE RED HOOD
BATMAN: YEAR ONE
Batman Begins
Batman & Robin
Batman: The Movie/Adam West

I'm sure Nolan can bring something great if he ever direct TMNT too.

What a goofy and incorrect list. As much as I like Batman Returns and think it's even better than The Dark Knight Rises, there's no way that Batman Begins is this low or anything remotely considered a snoozefest.

BvS on the other hand....

THGhost
02-13-2017, 11:19 AM
Yeah, I'd be keen on anyone with a good vision to really take control of the franchise. Unlike around 1994-2007, I think there's still enough momentum IP wise for TMNT that they'd want to get the ball rolling into another movie maybe in the next 2-3 years or so?

I mentioned this in the other PD thread, but I honestly feel like the next thing we'll get out the gate will be an animated film. I just wonder if Paramount and Nickelodeon were so caught off guard by the lack of return of investment for the sequel that they'd want to counter act that by going animated, so the production budget doesn't sky rocket again. Not that it'd be a bad thing, maybe they'd actually release an animated TMNT movie that'd be worth a damn.

I've thought this for a while. An animated TMNT movie would be very welcome after the 2 recent live-action attempts. Maybe adapt something from the Mirage comics, or IDW?

What a goofy and incorrect list. As much as I like Batman Returns and think it's even better than The Dark Knight Rises, there's no way that Batman Begins is this low or anything remotely considered a snoozefest.

BvS on the other hand....

Why are you lying? Stop lying. There's no way you actually believe this. :lol: I pretty much agree with the rest though.

Andrew NDB
02-13-2017, 11:33 AM
I've thought this for a while. An animated TMNT movie would be very welcome after the 2 recent live-action attempts.

You mean that followed the animated TMNT before them that flopped? Won't happen.

LeotheLateBloomer
02-13-2017, 12:30 PM
I know he wouldn't... but can you imagine a Christopher Nolan TMNT movie?

I've been wanting this for years! It'd be a miracle!

Like his Batman movies? Would that really still be a TMNT movie though? I mean, this is the guy who chose to get rid most of the sci-fi/fantasy elements of Batman. Ra's al Ghul wasn't immortal, Joker's skin wasn't bleeched, Bane didn't have a muscle enhancing drug, etc. What kind of TMNT movie do you get from that lense?

The 1990 movie? The movie, aside from the turtles and Splinter, didn't really have any of the following that Nolan excluded from his trilogy. I think if he were to watch the film and try to do his own attempt while trying to exclude the flaws it had as well as the FW elements, we could have a pretty well done film. All it really takes is to show a director or writer the original film and hopefully will inspire them to take a crack at it.

THGhost
02-13-2017, 05:12 PM
You mean that followed the animated TMNT before them that flopped? Won't happen.

I've read this sentence numerous times and I'm still not quite sure what you mean. Maybe the wording is odd or it's just me. :P

If you mean an animated TMNT film based on the PD films, no. God no. An animated TMNT film in its own timeline released maybe a few years from now.

TigerClaw
02-13-2017, 05:24 PM
I've read this sentence numerous times and I'm still not quite sure what you mean. Maybe the wording is odd or it's just me. :P

If you mean an animated TMNT film based on the PD films, no. God no. An animated TMNT film in its own timeline released maybe a few years from now.
I'm all for an animated film based on the IDW comics.

Coola Yagami
02-13-2017, 07:12 PM
I've been wanting this for years! It'd be a miracle!



The 1990 movie? The movie, aside from the turtles and Splinter, didn't really have any of the following that Nolan excluded from his trilogy. I think if he were to watch the film and try to do his own attempt while trying to exclude the flaws it had as well as the FW elements, we could have a pretty well done film. All it really takes is to show a director or writer the original film and hopefully will inspire them to take a crack at it.

I kinda think someone Nolan-ish would do a good job. Nolan Batman is NOT Batman. Tons of changes were made to make things more realistic, but as movies, they were great movies and gave Batman more cred with adults beyond just being some cartoon character.

Likewise, someone can take some of the goofy crap out of the Turtles, add more grit and realism here and there, I mean, they're fighting a ninja clan in modern day, that's nothing to laugh at. A Nolan-ish TMNT movie might be TMNT, but they will be great movies that will open the eyes of the general masses to make them realize that TMNT is more than kid's stuff. They'll have people flipping out over who will portray the Shredder or the Rat King just like everyone was buzzing about how good or bad Heath was going to portray the Joker.

Andrew NDB
02-13-2017, 07:22 PM
You mean that followed the animated TMNT before them that flopped? Won't happen.

I've read this sentence numerous times and I'm still not quite sure what you mean. Maybe the wording is odd or it's just me. :P

I'm talking about TMNT 2007, the animated movie. That's 3 movies ago. It failed to find an audience and I don't see them trying that again.

THGhost
02-13-2017, 09:36 PM
I'm talking about TMNT 2007, the animated movie. That's 3 movies ago. It failed to find an audience and I don't see them trying that again.

I'm talking about an animated TMNT movie that's completely separate from the recent movies though, not some quasi-sequel. And one that's actually good too and takes inspiration from Mirage/IDW. :lol:

I like your thinking, Coola Yagami. :tcool:

Coola Yagami
02-13-2017, 10:31 PM
Come to think of it.... many people felt The Dark Knight played out more like a realistic crime drama. It was literally so realistic that the only silly thing was the guy running around in a batsuit. That's.... kinda how a Ninja Turtles movie should play out. Have Shredder run the city with an iron grip with deadly ninjas and have nothing be too outlandish besides the Turtles, Splinter and Shredder themselves.

Andrew NDB
02-13-2017, 10:40 PM
Come to think of it.... many people felt The Dark Knight played out more like a realistic crime drama. It was literally so realistic that the only silly thing was the guy running around in a batsuit. That's.... kinda how a Ninja Turtles movie should play out. Have Shredder run the city with an iron grip with deadly ninjas and have nothing be too outlandish besides the Turtles, Splinter and Shredder themselves.

Agreed. The most ridiculous things in a really good TMNT story should be the TMNT themselves.

Which isn't to say they can't go into outer space sometimes, or fight a magical monster, or travel through time... but those should be the garnishments, not the meal.

Jephael
02-14-2017, 01:50 AM
The most ridiculous things in a really good TMNT story should be the TMNT themselves.

Which isn't to say they can't go into outer space sometimes, or fight a magical monster, or travel through time... but those should be the garnishments, not the meal.

While I kinda do agree with that statement to an extent, I do feel like just having the Ninja Turtles face the Foot Clan time and time again would get just as tedious and repetitive after a while. I'm all for coming up with some original ideas for adventures, but what else is there that they can encounter besides common criminals, aliens and other mutants?

Coola Yagami
02-14-2017, 01:55 AM
While I kinda do agree with that statement to an extent, I do feel like just having the Ninja Turtles face the Foot Clan time and time again would get just as tedious and repetitive after a while. I'm all for coming up with some original ideas for adventures, but what else is there that they can encounter besides common criminals, aliens and other mutants?

We've never seen a serious and deadly foot clan yet. In a way, it would be new to see them as threatening as The Hand in the Daredevil series, especially since they're based on them.

The thing is, we need a new movie series that does it right. The first story should deal with the foot, the foot are tied to their origins, at least the splinter/shredder part. Save the rat king, baxter, bishop and the Triceratons for sequels. The problem is to make the FIRST movie good so that it can warrant a sequel. In fact if you want different, throw in Baxter and have Shredder make him send the mousers after them. We've never seen mousers in a movie yet and it opens the door just enough so that Utroms and Triceratons don't seem way too outlandish in sequels.

Hell, end the first movie with splinter being missing after the turtles defeated shredder, which leads into the sequel about TCRI, Utroms and the Triceratons.

Jephael
02-14-2017, 02:13 AM
We've never seen a serious and deadly foot clan yet. In a way, it would be new to see them as threatening as The Hand in the Daredevil series, especially since they're based on them.

The thing is, we need a new movie series that does it right. The first story should deal with the foot, the foot are tied to their origins, at least the splinter/shredder part.

I kinda would like to see a story where Shredder himself forms the Foot Clan in modern day New York City after killing Hamato Yoshi and Teng Shen, but then we'd need an explanation as to how they learned their martial arts skills to begin with.

THGhost
02-14-2017, 07:42 AM
We've never seen a serious and deadly foot clan yet. In a way, it would be new to see them as threatening as The Hand in the Daredevil series, especially since they're based on them.

The thing is, we need a new movie series that does it right. The first story should deal with the foot, the foot are tied to their origins, at least the splinter/shredder part. Save the rat king, baxter, bishop and the Triceratons for sequels. The problem is to make the FIRST movie good so that it can warrant a sequel. In fact if you want different, throw in Baxter and have Shredder make him send the mousers after them. We've never seen mousers in a movie yet and it opens the door just enough so that Utroms and Triceratons don't seem way too outlandish in sequels.

Hell, end the first movie with splinter being missing after the turtles defeated shredder, which leads into the sequel about TCRI, Utroms and the Triceratons.

So basically adapt Mirage/2K3 into a faithful movie. I'm all for that. And have April work for Baxter instead of being a reporter every single time.

Andrew NDB
02-14-2017, 10:35 AM
While I kinda do agree with that statement to an extent, I do feel like just having the Ninja Turtles face the Foot Clan time and time again would get just as tedious and repetitive after a while.

Who said anything about the Foot Clan time and time again? A good TMNT universe doesn't just need to recycle the same crap from everything else over and over again (like they're doing now). There can be mafia, human trafficking rings, a Chinese triad, blah blah blah, you name it.

It's called "coming up with new sh*t." TPTB ought to try that sometime.

Donnie
02-14-2017, 10:48 AM
The 1990 Movie is untouchable. For me, it's the closest we'll get to TMNT, as they were meant to be and appear to audiences.

I wouldn't want a new film representing anything close to IDW's Turtles. IDW Donatello is abrasive, unlikable, and argumentative for argument's sake. He is such a far cry from past Donatello incarnations, it is sad. I don't understand why everyone has such a boner over IDW. The story lines are sub-par at best, it is a complete amalgam of TMNT Universes with every character under the sun, all mushed into one super ball of mainly nonsense. It's like play-dough--you know, when you mix all of the colors together--you end up with a sh*t colored mess in which all of the colors are ruined.

I'll stick to the 1990 film and enjoy it for what it is.

Andrew NDB
02-14-2017, 10:56 AM
The 1990 Movie is untouchable. For me, it's the closest we'll get to TMNT, as they were meant to be and appear to audiences.

I don't know about that last part, but it's certainly the closest studios have ever cared to bring TMNT to something that isn't horrible.

I wouldn't want a new film representing anything close to IDW's Turtles. IDW Donatello is abrasive, unlikable, and argumentative for argument's sake. He is such a far cry from past Donatello incarnations, it is sad. I don't understand why everyone has such a boner over IDW. The story lines are sub-par at best, it is a complete amalgam of TMNT Universes with every character under the sun, all mushed into one super ball of mainly nonsense. It's like play-dough--you know, when you mix all of the colors together--you end up with a sh*t colored mess in which all of the colors are ruined.

lol... I've... never thought of it that way. I'm not saying you're wrong. I can't even weigh in on the past couple of years of IDW. I just sort of buy them and don't read them. What I've read I would call very well written but fundamentally flawed at a concept level. Still, it has an audience so I'm glad that people enjoy it.

Jephael
02-14-2017, 01:39 PM
A good TMNT universe doesn't just need to recycle the same crap from everything else over and over again (like they're doing now). There can be mafia, human trafficking rings, a Chinese triad, blah blah blah, you name it.

It's called "coming up with new sh*t." TPTB ought to try that sometime.

For once we're on the same page. I'd love to see the Purple Dragons (or some analog of them) have a bigger place in the spotlight down the road. I mean heck, the very first issue began with the TMNT fighting them.

pferreira
02-16-2017, 09:10 AM
Because...

...this is why.I'm referring to the people who grew up with the 80s cartoon. It's a generation thing. Of course the Nick or 4Kids series is going to pass them by. For most people it's what Turtles you were raised with determines their nostalgia in years to come.

It's probably why when I was little I was enthralled with Batman Forever so much considering how it upped the action so much...but it's such a bad movie compared to the first two.It's a hell of a lot better than Batman Returns. :o

I wouldn't want a new film representing anything close to IDW's Turtles. IDW Donatello is abrasive, unlikable, and argumentative for argument's sake. He is such a far cry from past Donatello incarnations, it is sad. I don't understand why everyone has such a boner over IDW. The story lines are sub-par at best, it is a complete amalgam of TMNT Universes with every character under the sun, all mushed into one super ball of mainly nonsense. It's like play-dough--you know, when you mix all of the colors together--you end up with a sh*t colored mess in which all of the colors are ruined.Yikes, and netoman is constantly on me for thinking I don't 'get' the Turtles. Sounds like fun! :D

I know he wouldn't... but can you imagine a Christopher Nolan TMNT movie?I don't know if we totally want to go in that direction. The Nolan Batman films have a huge audience but it's fair to say Nolan sucked all the fun out of the character. I personally find those films really boring, not bad films, just boring considering the source material. If Nolan did direct a TMNT movie it may not be the film we wanted but it may be the one we deserved. :lol:

sgtfbomb
02-17-2017, 04:35 PM
It's a hell of a lot better than Batman Returns. :o


Hopefully, I don't seem like a jerk, but my opinion greatly differs.

It might have been better than Batman Returns had the original intentions survived the final cut, but they cut out of most of the psychological story, including an awesome symbolic sequence involving a large bat, and then re-arranged the scenes to bring the action to the start. Not that the action scenes were any good. They were like 90s versions of Adam West's fight scenes. They nerfed the bad guys a little, including a moment where the Riddler actually seems like a dangerous threat. It was an extension of the "I wanna learn how to hit a guy" scene, where he gets out of control. What is used of the scene is played for laughs. And, of course, they even gave the film a painfully annoying, painfully repetitive score, which amplified the camp factor even higher to "I just wanna puke" levels. (Sorry, that is the best way I could describe that score :D )

Granted, after the McDonalds crisis and because the film didn't have the financial success of the 1989 film, WB went into panic mode, so instead of looking at what made the first film so popular, they wanted the complete opposite of Batman Returns. And it seemed to work. Batman Forever was popular, though. And I do get a little enjoyment out of it, but personally, I wish Burton, Keaton, and Elfman had stuck with the series.

I like Batman Returns. I don't think it's better than Batman '89, but, I do like it.

Tetsu Deinonychus
02-18-2017, 09:16 AM
I consider both of the Schumacker Batman films to be garbage (and I LOVE Batman Returns), but everyone has every right to disagree with me on that.

I will say that we got a good R-Zone game out of Batman Forever, though. And, I'm kind of intrigued by the Batman film Schumacher wanted to make before WB gave the series the axe, "Batman Triumphant". It was supposed to be his "apology" film for Batman and Robin.

Andrew NDB
02-18-2017, 01:23 PM
Forever is only nominally less abortive than B&R. Then and now.

sgtfbomb
02-18-2017, 04:38 PM
Forever is only nominally less abortive than B&R. Then and now.

It started out with good intentions of telling a Bruce Wayne-oriented story.

The movie originally opened up with a gothic scene where Two-Face has escaped Arkham, leaving a dead guard dangling by rope and the words "The Bat Must Die" written in blood. Then it cut to the scene where Bruce Wayne meets Edward Nigma and leaves seeing the bat signal (notice that you hear sirens). In the theatrical cut, the signal was just a hoax from Dr. Chase to lure in Batman for her weird fetish with him. As originally filmed and intended, the signal was for the bank robbery scene which was moved to the front of the film.

The scene with Dr. Chase originally took place after the circus scene, and her lines were over-dubbed.

Also, watching the film, one must wonder why Batman allows the Riddler and Two Face to go on a crazy crime spree. Well, originally we were to find out that Nigma had hacked the tracking device on the Batmobile, sending him to the wrong locations. A scene shows up in the deleted scenes, where with no explanation, he enters a heists only to find a bunch of beauticians. It's horrible, mostly because of one of the comments -- "A little off the top Batman?" -- and their laughter. However, a good editor would cut around that, and end the scene with the confusion but no dialogue.

During one of the heists, The Riddler facetiously asks Two Face to teach him how to punch a guy. The Riddler punches and his hand hurts. The scene ends there in the film, for a laugh. But, as filmed, it continued and Nigma either beats the guy to death or near-death.

Throughout the film, there are scenes of Bruce at his parent's funeral. They only serve a small part in the theatrical cut, but were originally the heart and soul of the film. Bruce was to feel responsible for his parent's murder because he wanted to see a movie.

Later, in the theatrical cut, Two Face shoots Bruce. The bullet grazes the side of his head and he lands unconscious. Moments pass and he wakes up. Alfred says something like "the boy is missing, Chase has been kidnapped, and the bat cave has been destroyed." You can somewhat notice a look of confusion on Bruce's face before the film cuts ahead. Well, he had temporarily lost his memory. So Alfred takes him to the Bat Cave and shows him a dark path, which leads him to hole he fell through as a child. There he finds his father's red diary, where his father mentions that he too had wanted to go to the movies or something like that. Bruce, gaining parts of his memory back, realizes it wasn't his fault.

He sees a bat coming his way. Suddenly, a human-sized bat appears before him. They both spread their arms out as the shot pans around them. Not only does his full memory come back -- which, yes, is a bit of tiny sidetrack -- but his entire identity crisis (that he has all throughout the theatrical cut -- "Should I be Batman? Should I not be Batman?) is resolved. He is Batman forever. Hence the title....

The movie would then continue as it was, with Bruce and Alfred solving the riddles and the final climactic fight.

There were a few other trims, like Riddler being even more creepy around Dr. Chase when he has her hostage, the building of the island, and an alternate final shot where we see Batman and Robin on top of a gargoyle looking down on the city, just like Batman '89's ending.

WB came close to doing a director's cut for the 2005 special edition DVD, but ultimately decided not to do it and released *some* of the footage, lacking some of the context. Of course, some of my other issues with the film would still exist, like the score and the circus like red and green lights that light up Gotham City.

THGhost
02-22-2017, 07:26 AM
I'm referring to the people who grew up with the 80s cartoon. It's a generation thing. Of course the Nick or 4Kids series is going to pass them by. For most people it's what Turtles you were raised with determines their nostalgia in years to come.

Those shows are more than successful enough for people who grew up with the 80s cartoon to have heard of them though.

Andrew NDB
02-22-2017, 10:01 AM
It started out with good intentions of telling a Bruce Wayne-oriented story.

The movie originally opened up with a gothic scene where Two-Face has escaped Arkham, leaving a dead guard dangling by rope and the words "The Bat Must Die" written in blood. Then it cut to the scene where Bruce Wayne meets Edward Nigma and leaves seeing the bat signal (notice that you hear sirens). In the theatrical cut, the signal was just a hoax from Dr. Chase to lure in Batman for her weird fetish with him. As originally filmed and intended, the signal was for the bank robbery scene which was moved to the front of the film.

The scene with Dr. Chase originally took place after the circus scene, and her lines were over-dubbed.

Also, watching the film, one must wonder why Batman allows the Riddler and Two Face to go on a crazy crime spree. Well, originally we were to find out that Nigma had hacked the tracking device on the Batmobile, sending him to the wrong locations. A scene shows up in the deleted scenes, where with no explanation, he enters a heists only to find a bunch of beauticians. It's horrible, mostly because of one of the comments -- "A little off the top Batman?" -- and their laughter. However, a good editor would cut around that, and end the scene with the confusion but no dialogue.

During one of the heists, The Riddler facetiously asks Two Face to teach him how to punch a guy. The Riddler punches and his hand hurts. The scene ends there in the film, for a laugh. But, as filmed, it continued and Nigma either beats the guy to death or near-death.

Throughout the film, there are scenes of Bruce at his parent's funeral. They only serve a small part in the theatrical cut, but were originally the heart and soul of the film. Bruce was to feel responsible for his parent's murder because he wanted to see a movie.

Later, in the theatrical cut, Two Face shoots Bruce. The bullet grazes the side of his head and he lands unconscious. Moments pass and he wakes up. Alfred says something like "the boy is missing, Chase has been kidnapped, and the bat cave has been destroyed." You can somewhat notice a look of confusion on Bruce's face before the film cuts ahead. Well, he had temporarily lost his memory. So Alfred takes him to the Bat Cave and shows him a dark path, which leads him to hole he fell through as a child. There he finds his father's red diary, where his father mentions that he too had wanted to go to the movies or something like that. Bruce, gaining parts of his memory back, realizes it wasn't his fault.

He sees a bat coming his way. Suddenly, a human-sized bat appears before him. They both spread their arms out as the shot pans around them. Not only does his full memory come back -- which, yes, is a bit of tiny sidetrack -- but his entire identity crisis (that he has all throughout the theatrical cut -- "Should I be Batman? Should I not be Batman?) is resolved. He is Batman forever. Hence the title....

The movie would then continue as it was, with Bruce and Alfred solving the riddles and the final climactic fight.

There were a few other trims, like Riddler being even more creepy around Dr. Chase when he has her hostage, the building of the island, and an alternate final shot where we see Batman and Robin on top of a gargoyle looking down on the city, just like Batman '89's ending.

WB came close to doing a director's cut for the 2005 special edition DVD, but ultimately decided not to do it and released *some* of the footage, lacking some of the context. Of course, some of my other issues with the film would still exist, like the score and the circus like red and green lights that light up Gotham City.

I've seen a fan-edited cut that appeared to have done all of that and restored the missing footage.

Still ghastly.

pferreira
02-23-2017, 09:21 AM
Those shows are more than successful enough for people who grew up with the 80s cartoon to have heard of them though.Not the mainstream audience though, not Joe Public who doesn't follow every successive iteration.

It might have been better than Batman Returns had the original intentions survived the final cut, but they cut out of most of the psychological story, including an awesome symbolic sequence involving a large bat, and then re-arranged the scenes to bring the action to the start. Not that the action scenes were any good. They were like 90s versions of Adam West's fight scenes. They nerfed the bad guys a little, including a moment where the Riddler actually seems like a dangerous threat. It was an extension of the "I wanna learn how to hit a guy" scene, where he gets out of control. What is used of the scene is played for laughs. And, of course, they even gave the film a painfully annoying, painfully repetitive score, which amplified the camp factor even higher to "I just wanna puke" levels. (Sorry, that is the best way I could describe that score :D ) For me Batman Forever while not as good as the 1989 movie struck a good balance between being gothic and being fun. I enjoyed the fight scenes, I enjoyed the characters. Jim Carrey's Riddler and Chris O'Donnell's Robin are particularly great while I felt Tommy Lee Jones Two Face feels very one note. Yeah it's a bit cheesy at times but it feels like it had more going for it than Batman Returns which revelled in it's own grotesqueness and black comedy. I like the Christopher Nolan movies more than Batman Returns.

Forever is only nominally less abortive than B&R. Then and now.Batman and Robin was a more excessive version of Batman Forever's style. BF I could have put up with for further sequels.

And, I'm kind of intrigued by the Batman film Schumacher wanted to make before WB gave the series the axe, "Batman Triumphant". It was supposed to be his "apology" film for Batman and Robin.Batman Triumphant would have been amazing and part of me still wishes they'd do that film. The Joel Schumacher era would be looked upon more fondly had this film been produced.

THGhost
02-23-2017, 11:56 AM
Not the mainstream audience though, not Joe Public who doesn't follow every successive iteration.

Isn't this basically what I was saying anyway? The average person only knows the 80s cartoon, maybe the PD films? Glad we agree though. :P

I too enjoy Batman Forever for what it is.

sgtfbomb
02-23-2017, 10:27 PM
I've seen a fan-edited cut that appeared to have done all of that and restored the missing footage.

Still ghastly.

The problem with Batman Forever is that not all of the deleted scenes have been released. A lot of the things I mentioned are MIA, like Bruce's amnesia, the Riddler violently beating a guy up, etc. The DVD and Blu Ray just include a select few scenes that are out of context and often missing either the set up or the payoff.

But...

Fan edits aren't very good, usually. Because they aren't legit edits, they don't have the actual masters to work around. Plus, the missing footage isn't properly cleaned up and you still hear the awkward on-set sounds and there is no ADR to work with.

Plus, if they want to work in Elfman's score, not only would it stand out because they would have taken tracks from the two existing scores, which aren't personalized to the scenes of Batman Forever, but because they would have to work with a RIP of a DVD or Blu Ray where the existing score is very prominent.

pferreira
03-02-2017, 09:00 AM
I too enjoy Batman Forever for what it is.And I wouldn't have that any other way. :D

UsagiYoJimBelushi
03-06-2017, 11:49 PM
Probably not for multiple reasons. There's no arguing the movie was excellent but also its placement in the early years of the TMNT and what it inevitably allowed the turtles to become are what make the movie the best. Anyone that then looks into the story of how the movie struggled to be made and how it came together will only be more charmed by the film. Best can be a very relative and debatable term but i will say this. The first turtles movie is without doubt the most important film of the TMNT franchise

pferreira
03-09-2017, 08:59 AM
The first turtles movie is without doubt the most important film of the TMNT franchiseWhether we like it or not the first PD movie did great business at the Box Office as well.

ToTheNines
03-09-2017, 09:02 AM
And they lost their ass on the sequel.

pferreira
03-16-2017, 09:27 AM
And they lost their ass on the sequel.It's a case of people seeing the movie and all goodwill being lost for the sequel. The same thing happened with Amazing Spider-Man although unlike Ninja Turtles the second Spider-Man movie was worse.

LeotheLateBloomer
03-16-2017, 09:54 AM
It's a case of people seeing the movie and all goodwill being lost for the sequel. The same thing happened with Amazing Spider-Man although unlike Ninja Turtles the second Spider-Man movie was worse.

Debatable. Familiar elements don't automatically make a film better if the story is worse.

Shellington
04-01-2017, 07:35 AM
No.

There are some special films that no reboot can really surpass, because part of their charm and appeal is in them being the first of their kind. Superman 1978, Batman 1989, X-Men 2000, Spider-Man 2002, and TMNT 90.

And this film tells a good story:
- it draws its main story from the Eastman-Laird comics, but pays homage to the 87 cartoon too and keeps a great blend between fun and serious
- it skips over the sci-fi origin with a simple "it happened, accept it" in comparison to rcent times trying to make a detailed origin for the mutation (eg Project Renaissance) but gives a brief but emotionally touching backstory on the tragic history of Splinter, Yoshi and Saki
- it uses the theme of family by showing the Turtles fight and care for each other, and how April and Casey join this family, and highlights how alone (and selfish) the Shredder is despite his power and fearsome nature

Punker
04-21-2017, 08:31 AM
I think that it will be tough to make anything that surpasses the original movie until the movie industry gets out of their CGI obsession phase. I probably sound like a cranky old person, but the insane amounts of CGI is what ruins this new movie series for me.

I think that the Turtles look so much better in costumes rather than giant computer animated monsters. I also think that the fight scenes look much more realistic in the original movies. I would much rather see real martial artists fighting each other instead of these crazy CGI filled battles where I can't even tell what's happening half of the time.

If they ever wanted to make something that's close to surpassing the original movie, they would also have to go back to better story and character development. One of my biggest complaints when I saw the 2014 movie was that it felt like they sacrificed the nice character moments for extra long CGI battles. Think about some of the scenes from the original movie:


The moment with Splinter and Raphael, after Raph comes back from his encounter with Casey Jones.

Raph and Leo's argument, followed up by their touching moment after Raph wakes back up.

Just about every scene at the farmhouse.

The Turtles having the vision of Splinter over the fire while meditating.


Those are just some of the great character moments that are totally missing from the new movies. The story in general just feels more personal too: Oroku Saki killed Splinter's master 15 years ago, Oroku Saki has built the Foot Clan into a powerful empire as the Shredder, the Turtles are finally a threat to his empire, the Foot capture Splinter and burn down April's apartment, the Turtles regroup after finding themselves at the farmhouse, and it all leads to an epic showdown on the rooftop where Splinter finally gets his revenge on Oroku Saki. It's certainly much better than just the generic story about evil guys who want to take over the city by spreading poisonous gas.

Part of it is perspective too though...for me, the original movie will never be surpassed, but part of the reason is because it's the film that I grew up on. I loved it as a kid, I still love it today, and it will always hold a special place in my heart. Kids who are growing up today might say the same thing about the 2014 movie in years to come, as weird as that sounds.

sgtfbomb
04-24-2017, 10:29 AM
It's not what you use to bring the Turtles to life. It's how you give them humanity.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
04-25-2017, 02:39 PM
I guess it was also popular because fans didn't require so much, just simple stories. The bad guys kidnap one of the good guys' family members or friends, and the good guys must come to the rescue.

billbot85
05-28-2017, 08:43 PM
To me, the 1990 film could never be equalled or surpassed, especially since the film was perfect for its time. I feel the film really represented the late 80's/early 90's and the height of the original Turtle Mania.

As mentioned here before, it was the first of its kind, which I think makes it that more iconic.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-29-2017, 05:54 AM
The story in general just feels more personal too:

I guess it depends on if it's character-based or plot-based storylines.

neatoman
05-29-2017, 06:57 AM
I don't know if I posted in this thread before, but I'd say the answer is a maybe? While the first movie is arguably the best movie, it's worth noting that it's veeeeeeeeery flawed and TMNT 2007 is the only other one that doesn't feel like straight up trash. 2 out 6 are watchable, and I can't even those are actually good under any reasonable standard. The two of them basically win by default because they treat the material with some semblance of respect, even if it didn't turn out that great.

All you really need to surpass the original and 2007 is to have a stronger script, a somewhat better director and a slightly higher budget.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-29-2017, 07:03 AM
I don't know if I posted in this thread before but, I'd say the answer is a maybe? While the first movie is arguably the best movie, it's worth noting that it's veeeeeeeeery flawed and TMNT 2007 is the only other one that doesn't feel like straight up trash. 2 out 6 are watchable, and I can't even those are actually good under any reasonable standard. The two of them basically win by default because they treat the material with some semblance of respect, even if it didn't turn out that great.

All you really need to surpass the original and 2007 is to have a stronger script, a somewhat better director and a slightly higher budget.

And, to surpass the "Secret of the Ooze", Utroms!

1/2Shell
05-29-2017, 04:40 PM
The only way I could see a good sequel to the 1990 film would be to shoot a new Turtles movie the same way the 1990 film was shot. On film, using the same suits / special effects and with a similar quality of cast.

It would have to be an independent / fan-made production.

I think a claymation turtles movie would be really interesting too. That's a technique that isn't used nearly enough nowadays...

neatoman
05-30-2017, 03:18 AM
And, to surpass the "Secret of the Ooze", Utroms!

... I guess? If you mean that Utroms would have made that particular movie better, I guess that line about Donatello doubting the ooze's origin might have some payoff? The way it's presented in the movie it just seems like he's unhappy about the obvious.

If you mean just a movie detailing their origin, sure. What explaination did the other movies give us? Freak accidental waste product and a scam to get stupid rich off a poison? Utroms are the key to a bigger world, they don't feel like a cheap answer.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-30-2017, 08:07 AM
... I guess? If you mean that Utroms would have made that particular movie better, I guess that line about Donatello doubting the ooze's origin might have some payoff? The way it's presented in the movie it just seems like he's unhappy about the obvious.

If you mean just a movie detailing their origin, sure. What explaination did the other movies give us? Freak accidental waste product and a scam to get stupid rich off a poison? Utroms are the key to a bigger world, they don't feel like a cheap answer.

The ooze was supposed to be extraterrestrial, and that's what was supposed to be it's secret.

neatoman
05-30-2017, 10:11 AM
The ooze was supposed to be extraterrestrial, and that's what was supposed to be it's secret.

I know it says in the script that the scientist was going to turn out to be an utrom, so yeah, the secret in the title was lost.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-30-2017, 10:43 AM
I know it says in the script that the scientist was going to turn out to be an utrom, so yeah, the secret in the title was lost.

At least, I wish that script could've been in a comic adaption of the film.

pferreira
06-01-2017, 08:29 AM
At least, I wish that script could've been in a comic adaption of the film.As do I. :)

neatoman
06-01-2017, 08:37 AM
At least, I wish that script could've been in a comic adaption of the film.

That would not have been an unreasonable expectation. That's kind of how a lot of comic book adaptations of movies are, I know the comic/novel version of Transformers 3 has the script ending where Optimus and Megatron enter a truce. The actual movie ends with Optimus ripping his head off for suggesting a truce which really doesn't seem like a fitting ending at all.

Danetello
07-07-2017, 05:39 PM
For me, personally, I like the second one as much as the first, if not a little more in some regards.

biganimefan
07-15-2017, 06:54 AM
Honestly, even though I do personally like TMNT III better and have enjoyed all of the TMNT movies, I do know that the original is the closest that we've ever gotten to being faithful to Mirage. Do I think there will come a time when it can be surpassed/more faithful to Mirage? Not in this generation(the next 25-ish years) at least, not in America anyway.

Japan could do it if they wanted to and got the rights to it. TMNT of course does have Japanese influences and Japan does know it's own history even if they do have selective amnesia about it at times.

For America to do it, first of all they need to go to the source material(Mirage, NOT FW despite it being more popular). Not worry about doing a true adaption or even superior adaption(in other words, don't hold back an R rating). At present, I believe very much that directors like Clint Eastwood, Edward Zwick, or Peter Jackson could pull it off. Problem is, none of them would ever have any desire to. So, what we need is for Andrew or another Mirage purist to get into Directing movies(if one hasn't already) and get the ball rolling!

dawwe
07-15-2017, 09:42 AM
No, I don't think that the Steve Barron film will ever be topped. It's actually one of my favorite movies. Is it a perfect movie? Not really but it's still a personal favorite. There is of course some nostalgia there but it still holds up even if you take that into account. Though it would be nice if I was suprised and blown away by a new TMNT movie but I really doubt it's ever going to happen.

ctt4lfecw
07-23-2017, 07:05 PM
If it didn't by now, I don't know.

AquaParade
07-24-2017, 10:22 AM
No, I don't think that the Steve Barron film will ever be topped. It's actually one of my favorite movies. Is it a perfect movie? Not really but it's still a personal favorite. There is of course some nostalgia there but it still holds up even if you take that into account. Though it would be nice if I was suprised and blown away by a new TMNT movie but I really doubt it's ever going to happen.

Yeah, it's not a masterpiece, but it is GOOD. Throw in a pinch of nostalgia, and you have yourself a lifetime favorite.
One aspect of the film I always love to rave about is the grainy, grungy texture and look of it all, that really harkens back to the independent feel of the Mirage comics. New York looks worn and lived in, The Foot operate out of white vans while hiding out in an abandoned warehouse. Even the film itself looks grainy! Love it.

For a new tmnt film to surpass it in my eyes, would be a huge task, but one just within the realm of possibility, I think. Here's hoping.

Andrew NDB
07-24-2017, 10:53 AM
It's not that hard to surpass TMNT 1990 at all... but I don't put a great deal of faith in such a thing happening anytime soon. Most of those hopes sort of died with the Viacom sale.

AquaParade
07-24-2017, 12:21 PM
It's not that hard to surpass TMNT 1990 at all... but I don't put a great deal of faith in such a thing happening anytime soon. Most of those hopes sort of died with the Viacom sale.

Yes, but "hard" and "possible" seem to be two very different things when it comes to a question like this. I assume that's what your post is illustrating.

Sure, Spielberg or Tarantino could easily make a better tmnt film, but what are the possibilities of us actually getting one better than the 1990 film? Pretty split, imo.