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Coola Yagami
01-22-2017, 11:15 PM
Now that the series is near its end... what did it actually do? What did it really bring to the table for future incarnations?

I mean the OT brought in a lot of memorable characters as well as dimension x and the whole 'rule the world with the technodrome' deal.

The mirage comics brought in the silent partner/Northampton retreat/return to New York story as well as the Triceratons and Karai and whatnot.

The 2K3 series brought in Hun, more focus on the Purple dragons, Bishop, and the battle nexus.

What exactly did this new series bring? Just more grotesque mutants and that psychic April storyline? What story did this series introduce for the next one to adapt? I just don't see the next big tmnt show recreating the psychic April plot or bringing back dogpound and fishface.

Autbot_Benz
01-22-2017, 11:23 PM
what we took away from this series is its not that important to Nick and they put it on stupid long breaks and allow South Korea to air episodes months in advance. :lol:

Penst0ck
01-22-2017, 11:29 PM
I could see characters like Tiger Claw show up in new incarnations. This show was a real love child of all the different universes of turtles there have been. It showed just how much material tmnt has for an abundance of stories and characters to tell, and the pool has only gotten bigger because of it.

CyberCubed
01-22-2017, 11:42 PM
This thread is absolutely absurd. Also nobody better post any end of Season 4 spoilers in this thread from the last 4 episodes or risk getting banned.

In any case, the Nick cartoon successfully introduced a whole new gen of kids to TMNT. In terms of characters, Tigerclaw, Fishface and Bradford/Rahzar have all been standouts and will probably continue to future incarnations. Some of the secondary mutants have been fun as well, such as Snakeweed.

It also brought back and reinvented tons of old characters, like Lord Dregg, Armaggon, all the Mutanimals characters such as Mondo, Slash, etc, the Punk Frogs, Bebop/Rocksteady, etc, etc.

It did exactly what it was supposed to do.

snake
01-23-2017, 12:22 AM
It was an enjoyable love letter to TMNT as a whole. I think we can take away the first season as some of the best TMNT media around, or atleast in my opinion it is. Season 2 onwards has some cool stories that any fan of the franchise will like.

IDW will probably be more "influential" to future incarnations though.

Ashwolf
01-23-2017, 12:59 AM
it hasnt even officially been confirmed that there arent gonna be more seasons after season 5

ssjup81
01-23-2017, 01:10 AM
It entertained me. That's all that matters at the end of the day for me.

Metalwolf
01-23-2017, 07:45 AM
What is the takeaway? That a Turtle series needs to do more then just pander to a previous series. It needs to learn to be original too because nostalgia and rehashed old storylines can only carry it so far.

It also needs to know when a plot is being dragged out too long, when villains get too bumbling and comedic relief for their own good, and that plot consistency and characterization are important if one wants to ensure that what happens, matters.

Otherwise, it bores people, make them scratch their heads, and gives us Mary Sue characters like April.

ToTheNines
01-23-2017, 08:01 AM
Best. Leo. Ever.

neatoman
01-23-2017, 10:07 AM
It's hard to figure out the future impact but let's see what it brought that was new.

Let's see here... Anime gags? Cartoon parodies?

Jephael
01-23-2017, 10:10 AM
It entertained me. That's all that matters at the end of the day for me.

Same here, dude. Not much else can be said about it.

PApagreg
01-23-2017, 10:12 AM
I do kinda hope some future incarnations use Xever more

evan2000
01-23-2017, 10:12 AM
Best. Leo. Ever.

I'd say the best Donnie ever too! :tgrin:

It's hard to figure out the future impact but let's see what it brought that was new.

Let's see here... Anime gags? Cartoon parodies?

Turtles that actually act like teenagers :tlol:

IndigoErth
01-23-2017, 10:25 AM
What I liked that it has brought/added to TMNT:
* Differing designs of each Turtle, including different eye colors (and with the movies picking up on that as well, Leo is probably going to be considered blue eyed by me from now on :P).
* A mashup of serious and funny, bringing together the opposing tones of the prior two shows.
* A cool new baddie in Tiger Claw (he's a Nick original, right?).


Honorable mentions... I like younger Splinter and Karai as his daughter, though I could take it or leave it for future incarnations. New take on Rat King was kinda cool.


Since they're winding it down at this point they're kind of stopping short on original stories since they did a lot of new takes on old stuff, so I'm kind of short on what it brought truly new in that regard. Who knows, maybe the next season will add some new ideas since they're supposedly changing the formula a bit via brief stories that last a few episodes instead of the continued serialized thing.


What I would gladly leave to 2012 alone... Magic powers April. Young April and Casey (it's been fun, but leave it here), Mikey's portrayal as such a dimwit, and his ear bleeding screaming. Kid-acting Turtles. Also been fun, but I want my grown-acting/seeming Turtles back now... Or legitimately grown next time.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-23-2017, 10:26 AM
That everybody is still okay typecasting Mikey as an immature annoying screw-up and Donnie as a low-powered ex-machina-building weak geek?

CyberCubed
01-23-2017, 11:31 AM
That everybody is still okay typecasting Mikey as an immature annoying screw-up and Donnie as a low-powered ex-machina-building weak geek?

You mean the same way IDW does, albeit less obvious? Don getting his shell smashed, he's still drawn more lanky in the IDW series than the other Turtles. And while IDW Mikey has a lot of heart, he's still portrayed in the early issues as wanting to goof off and play videogames.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-23-2017, 11:34 AM
what we took away from this series is its not that important to Nick and they put it on stupid long breaks and allow South Korea to air episodes months in advance. :lol:

With the breaks, Nickelodeon can make even more money on it over a larger time without producing new episodes. Instead of season 4 airing over one year, it was spread over two. Market like two seasons, for the price of one!

FredWolfLeonardo
01-23-2017, 11:34 AM
That everybody is still okay typecasting Mikey as an immature annoying screw-up and Donnie as a low-powered ex-machina-building weak geek?

They weren't always like that in the series. Maybe that's the public perception, but the characters themselves had pretty balanced and interesting personalities

neatoman
01-23-2017, 11:37 AM
I'd say the best Donnie ever too! :tgrin:

I don't know, he just makes me think of stuff like this:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/20/57/a7/2057a79b55d004a7d0849bb371955671.png
Ld45wI9Nl18

Turtles that actually act like teenagers :tlol:

I don't know, maybe it got somewhat closer than previous incarnations but I don't think they weren't already trying to do that.

Anyway, when it comes to more substantial additions I'm not sure how well they're going to stick in the future. I don't think April's psychic powers or Hamato Yoshi being Karai's father are going to stick, basically most of the revisions to previously established characters don't really seem like they're going to remain. Some of the new characters like Fishface or Tiger Claw might pop up in the future but I'm mostly seeing them being treated like blank slates.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-23-2017, 11:45 AM
You mean the same way IDW does, albeit less obvious? Don getting his shell smashed, he's still drawn more lanky in the IDW series than the other Turtles. And while IDW Mikey has a lot of heart, he's still portrayed in the early issues as wanting to goof off and play videogames.

"Lanky" has nothing to do with it. And yeah, Don got smashed by Bebop and Rocksteady--that would have happened to ANY of the four Turtles going up against them alone. Not relevant.

As for Mikey, he hasn't been portrayed as a screw-up at all. There's a difference between a well-rounded character with flaws (IDW) or a 1-dimensional character solely defined by stereotypes (Nick).

CyberCubed
01-23-2017, 11:46 AM
"Lanky" has nothing to do with it. And yeah, Don got smashed by Bebop and Rocksteady--that would have happened to ANY of the four Turtles going up against them alone. Not relevant.

He's still portrayed as the least competent fighter. The Turtles leave him to hang back to handle all the sci-fi computer stuff while they do the fighting, same thing happened in the Krang arc early in the series. Even the 2k3 series did this, so its not uncommon when every series does the same.

As for Mikey, he hasn't been portrayed as a screw-up at all. There's a difference between a well-rounded character with flaws (IDW) or a 1-dimensional character solely defined by stereotypes (Nick).

Nick's Mikey has a lot of dimensions.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-23-2017, 12:06 PM
He's still portrayed as the least competent fighter. The Turtles leave him to hang back to handle all the sci-fi computer stuff while they do the fighting, same thing happened in the Krang arc early in the series. Even the 2k3 series did this, so its not uncommon when every series does the same.



Nick's Mikey has a lot of dimensions.

He's done it by choice, thrice. The Krang War arc, where he was helping scientists assemble a war-ending weapon; and the fight against Bebop and Rocksteady and the attack on Burnow Island, both instances where he was the one responsible for bringing in the Foot Clan.

Neither had anything to do with him being a weaker fighter; he's fought right alongside his brothers against the Street Phantoms, against Leatherhead, against Shredder, to rescue Leo from the Foot Clan, against Koya and the Foot Assassins...

ToTheNines
01-23-2017, 12:15 PM
I want to like Nick Don. But Date Rape Donnie gets on my nerves.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-23-2017, 12:21 PM
I want to like Nick Don. But Date Rape Donnie gets on my nerves.

Stalker Donnie, Date Rape Donnie, Nice Guy Donnie, Fedora M'Lady Donnie...

Right up there with Platinum Dunes' Urkel Donnie. Classic.

ToTheNines
01-23-2017, 12:34 PM
Where is Playmates with all these variants?

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-23-2017, 12:41 PM
Where is Playmates with all these variants?

:tlol: A Donnie with a fedora, neckbeard, and MLP doll? Who'd buy that? :trazz:

IndigoErth
01-23-2017, 12:46 PM
Stalker Donnie, Date Rape Donnie, Nice Guy Donnie, Fedora M'Lady Donnie...

Right up there with Platinum Dunes' Urkel Donnie. Classic.
Nick Donnie and PD Mikey could be such good friends. They'd finally have something to relate to. *cringe*

FredWolfLeonardo
01-23-2017, 01:32 PM
One thing that must be kept in mind is that the Nick series was made after 4kids and FW. While it does mean that Nick can correct the mistakes made in the prior shows, there is also alot more pressure on Nick to be original while still staying true to what made tmnt great. Drift away too far and you will be accused of being unfaithful. Stay too close and you will be accused of not being original enough. And despite the high expectations, I think this show was absolutely fantastic and that there's alot to take away from it. I would say this even if season 4 was the end.

myconius
01-23-2017, 01:35 PM
the biggest and best thing this series did for me was the fluid 3D fighting moves! i really loved the visual effects as the weapons would spin or slash.

Best. Leo. Ever.

^ i have to agree! this was my favorite Cartoon Leo ever!

i might even enjoy this version of Leo even better than the 1990 Movie Leo? .....i did say "MIGHT?" :lol:


I want to like Nick Don. But Date Rape Donnie gets on my nerves.

Stalker Donnie, Date Rape Donnie, Nice Guy Donnie, Fedora M'Lady Donnie...

Right up there with Platinum Dunes' Urkel Donnie. Classic.

^ also ........ ALL valid points right here!!! :lol:

Splinter the boss
01-23-2017, 01:39 PM
sorry I'm in the dark, but has the end of this series been announced yet?

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-23-2017, 01:40 PM
Curious, what makes you guys prefer Nick Leo to 4Kids Leo? The fact that Nick Leo was in the process of learning to be a leader, while 4Kids Leo was pretty much always self-assured and a proven leader?

IndigoErth
01-23-2017, 01:45 PM
Reminded me of another plus, I like that being 3D has given his swords a little of the katana-like curve to them, vs the art style cutting corners and making them straight as they have often been depicted. :thumbsup: I hope that (and further making them look legit) carries over into the future.

Candy Kappa
01-23-2017, 01:46 PM
Nick Donnie and PD Mikey could be such good friends. They'd finally have something to relate to. *cringe*

I donno, might be some conflict of interest :lol:

http://img01.deviantart.net/532f/i/2014/348/b/d/a_wild_pd_michelangelo_appears_by_candykappa-d89sfw2.jpg

IndigoErth
01-23-2017, 01:47 PM
I donno, might be some conflict of interest :lol:

http://img01.deviantart.net/532f/i/2014/348/b/d/a_wild_pd_michelangelo_appears_by_candykappa-d89sfw2.jpg
LOL! :lol: Omg.

CyberCubed
01-23-2017, 01:49 PM
I really think this thread should be locked. Its another not-so-cleverly-disguised anti-Nick cartoon bashing thread.

Xav
01-23-2017, 01:55 PM
This thread is absolutely absurd. Also nobody better post any end of Season 4 spoilers in this thread from the last 4 episodes or risk getting banned.You can get banned for posting spoilers?

Jephael
01-23-2017, 02:00 PM
You can get banned?

CyberCubed
01-23-2017, 02:25 PM
You can get banned for posting spoilers?

Yes? Why wouldn't you? The mods already banned at least two people a week ago for it.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-23-2017, 02:32 PM
You can get banned for posting spoilers?

It seems so for the episodes who first South Korea, until they air in the USA.

CyberCubed
01-23-2017, 02:49 PM
TMNTInsighter did get banned for a week, although he's unbanned now.

myconius
01-23-2017, 03:16 PM
Curious, what makes you guys prefer Nick Leo to 4Kids Leo? The fact that Nick Leo was in the process of learning to be a leader, while 4Kids Leo was pretty much always self-assured and a proven leader?

as much as i try to love the 4kids show, something about it just rubs me the wrong way.
i'm pretty sure it's that i'm not crazy about the voice actors, as well as wishing that if they were going to do Mirage stories that they'd follow it closer to the comic.

the Nick series grew on me over time. at first i found some things about it very irritating.
but they do get very creative with their storylines once in a while. and the show's sense of humor is pretty good a lot of the time! :)

Reminded me of another plus, I like that being 3D has given his swords a little of the katana-like curve to them, vs the art style cutting corners and making them straight as they have often been depicted. :thumbsup: I hope that (and further making them look legit) carries over into the future.

YEP! gotta LOVE them 3d blade!!! :D

I donno, might be some conflict of interest :lol:

http://img01.deviantart.net/532f/i/2014/348/b/d/a_wild_pd_michelangelo_appears_by_candykappa-d89sfw2.jpg

Kappa, now THAT is funny!!!!!! :lol:

CyberCubed
01-23-2017, 03:35 PM
as much as i try to love the 4kids show, something about it just rubs me the wrong way.
i'm pretty sure it's that i'm not crazy about the voice actors, as well as wishing that if they were going to do Mirage stories that they'd follow it closer to the comic. :

The voice actors for 4kids were fine. And the stories they did were mostly well done outside of City at War.

Candy Kappa
01-23-2017, 03:58 PM
I like that being 3D has given his swords a little of the katana-like curve to them, vs the art style cutting corners and making them straight as they have often been depicted. :thumbsup:
YEP! gotta LOVE them 3d blade!!! :D

Completely agree, and the swords are appropriately of different lengths. Something I'm a huge fan of.


Kappa, now THAT is funny!!!!!! :lol:

Thanks :tlol:

myconius
01-23-2017, 05:02 PM
The voice actors for 4kids were fine.

vocally they sounded great. but for me it just sounded like the performances lacked passion.

And the stories they did were mostly well done outside of City at War.

again, just personal preference. i didn't care for the liberties taken with the stories. with such excellent page lay outs from the comics, when i didn't see any of the same visual compositions used from page to screen like they did for cartoon adaptions like Dark Knight Returns, i found it extremely disappointing.
i see the Nick series just using the Mirage classics for little nods and easter eggs here and there. but their stories for me really feel like their own.

Completely agree, and the swords are appropriately of different lengths. Something I'm a huge fan of.


yeah, the visual style and little details they throw in really are truly amazing.


Thanks :tlol:

you're welcome! :tgrin:

Spike Spiegel
01-23-2017, 06:55 PM
So what did we take away from this series?


That when a company buys a huge franchise, they will try to make money off of it as fast as they can by putting their own spin on it, even it it's not up to the level of previous entries.

I tried to watch the 2012 series but for reasons others have mentioned, I could never get into it. Can't stand creepy incel Donatello, especially since he was always my favorite Turtle.

CyberCubed
01-23-2017, 07:00 PM
I tried to watch the 2012 series but for reasons others have mentioned, I could never get into it. Can't stand creepy incel Donatello, especially since he was always my favorite Turtle.

This is barely in the series, and its played for laughs.

ABrown
01-23-2017, 07:07 PM
I haven't taken away a thing from this series. Everything that it has given, I've given right back.

CyberCubed
01-23-2017, 08:02 PM
I've taken all of it. Its a great show. I want to marathon it from the start, but I think I'll wait till Season 5 is done.

myconius
01-23-2017, 08:23 PM
I've taken all of it. Its a great show. I want to marathon it from the start, but I think I'll wait till Season 5 is done.

one thing i will give the show is there are a good selection of episodes (like Tales of the Yokai) that have a lot of re-watch value.

the episode (i can't offhand remember the title) that homaged Friday the 13th, i re-watched dozens of times!
that visual layout of Leo in the background on his knees defeated, while his katanas were both planted in the foreground with his mask blowing in the wind like a flag was beautiful!

ToTheNines
01-23-2017, 08:40 PM
Curious, what makes you guys prefer Nick Leo to 4Kids Leo? The fact that Nick Leo was in the process of learning to be a leader, while 4Kids Leo was pretty much always self-assured and a proven leader?

Yes. Nick Leo is vulnerable, awkward, unsure, dorky and relatable. And he hangs out with everyone and has hobbies other than Ninjitsu.

I remeber in Leo's bio on the old Mirage site, his answer to "hobbies" was that he guessed he liked candles. ****ing CANDLES dude...

So yeah, 4kids Leo is mostly boring and talks about the Samurai code of honor lol. He's also a huge bitch at times. Like the time Splinter said he's better than his brothers because of his training, not his swords... so he ran away crying and almost joined the Foot.

I loved him as a kid though, he was my favorite. 4kids Leo was my Captain Ryan when I was 12.

Technogeek29
01-23-2017, 09:25 PM
Yes. Nick Leo is vulnerable, awkward, unsure, dorky and relatable. And he hangs out with everyone and has hobbies other than Ninjitsu.

I remeber in Leo's bio on the old Mirage site, his answer to "hobbies" was that he guessed he liked candles. ****ing CANDLES dude...

So yeah, 4kids Leo is mostly boring and talks about the Samurai code of honor lol. He's also a huge bitch at times. Like the time Splinter said he's better than his brothers because of his training, not his swords... so he ran away crying and almost joined the Foot.

I loved him as a kid though, he was my favorite. 4kids Leo was my Captain Ryan when I was 12.

Only real flaw I saw was that he was an extreme perfectionist and control freak. He hated being unsure or not in charge of what the outcome was and season 4 really highlighted that. Nick Leo seems to take losing better than 2k3.

IndigoErth
01-23-2017, 09:45 PM
Poor Leo, he's prob been the slowest to obtain interests besides what he does for a living. "Okay, leader - check. What else?" *shrug* "Okay, next guy."

I love that elsewhere he's been sometimes portrayed as a bit of a bookworm and have wished 2012 would have included that.

Though I do like they made him some lovable little dork with his cartoon hero. That's probably one of the things that helped hook me on the show and bring me back to TMNT. Seeing this young Leo sitting there wide eyed staring at this cartoon and realizing my childhood hero has become me from long ago watching his first cartoon. lol :D


Candles? *sigh* I mean, candles are cool and all, but they could at least come up with more reason for it.

Since he's so big on his blades, how about metalsmithing/bladesmith? After all, 2003 Leo did make himself a new sword at the farm house and obviously that would require prior knowledge and skill.

In the future (*throws hints at future Turtle writers/creators*), I could see him picking up some calming artistic hobby, like Japanese style calligraphy, maybe water color. Wood carving/whittling perhaps (includes carving blade handles so it's also a useful skill). Keeping a fish tank with a 'fancy' type goldfish or a betta. It's not really that hard to come up with things the guy might get into.

myconius
01-23-2017, 10:02 PM
Poor Leo, he's prob been the slowest to obtain interests besides what he does for a living. "Okay, leader - check. What else?" *shrug* "Okay, next guy."

I love that elsewhere he's been sometimes portrayed as a bit of a bookworm and have wished 2012 would have included that.

Though I do like they made him some lovable little dork with his cartoon hero. That's probably one of the things that helped hook me on the show and bring me back to TMNT. Seeing this young Leo sitting there wide eyed staring at this cartoon and realizing my childhood hero has become me from long ago watching his first cartoon. lol :D


Candles? *sigh* I mean, candles are cool and all, but they could at least come up with more reason for it.

Since he's so big on his blades, how about metalsmithing/bladesmith? After all, 2003 Leo did make himself a new sword at the farm house and obviously that would require prior knowledge and skill.

In the future (*throws hints at future Turtle writers/creators*), I could see him picking up some calming artistic hobby, like Japanese style calligraphy, maybe water color. Wood carving/whittling perhaps (includes carving blade handles so it's also a useful skill). Keeping a fish tank with a 'fancy' type goldfish or a betta. It's not really that hard to come up with things the guy might get into.

i imagine the IDW comic Leo probably clipped the Banzai tree that's in his bedroom?
yeah i can see him doing some sort of Japanese ink wash maybe?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/fc/50/a0/fc50a0abf948270e85dc1ce930402620.jpg

but yeah, if he crafted his own blade then he must've have prior experience.

blacksmithing definitely counts as an activity if not hobby.

PApagreg
01-23-2017, 10:07 PM
So yeah, 4kids Leo is mostly boring and talks about the Samurai code of honor lol. He's also a huge bitch at times. Like the time Splinter said he's better than his brothers because of his training, not his swords... so he ran away crying and almost joined the Foot.

I loved him as a kid though, he was my favorite. 4kids Leo was my Captain Ryan when I was 12.
Yeah he was sort of a bitch and that "honor" thing sort of annoyed me, I mean they are ninjas dirty tactics, are their beard and butter however I do want to see an incarnation where Leo tries to act more like a Bushido than a ninja and see how that effects his relationship with Splinter. But on topic if there is one thing I can say about the Nick Turtles is that their Leo is my favorite animated incarnation so far hell maybe my favorite in the whole franchise.


Candles? *sigh* I mean, candles are cool and all, but they could at least come up with more reason for it.

Since he's so big on his blades, how about metalsmithing/bladesmith? After all, 2003 Leo did make himself a new sword at the farm house and obviously that would require prior knowledge and skill.

In the future (*throws hints at future Turtle writers/creators*), I could see him picking up some calming artistic hobby, like Japanese style calligraphy, maybe water color. Wood carving/whittling perhaps (includes carving blade handles so it's also a useful skill). Keeping a fish tank with a 'fancy' type goldfish or a betta. It's not really that hard to come up with things the guy might get into.

Yeah I do see him interested in some traditional Japanese activity, hopefully it isn't whaling or beetle fighting.

IndigoErth
01-23-2017, 10:26 PM
i imagine the IDW comic Leo probably clipped the Banzai tree that's in his bedroom?
yeah i can see him doing some sort of Japanese ink wash maybe?
Bonsai didn't even cross my mind, but surely that. Japanese ink wash, perfect.

As much as he tends to treat his skills and swordsmanship like an art form, plus the meditation and spirituality, he's gotta have a little bit of an artistic soul in there somewhere.

Yeah I do see him interested in some traditional Japanese activity, hopefully it isn't whaling or beetle fighting.
:teek::tlol: Nah...

myconius
01-23-2017, 10:59 PM
Bonsai didn't even cross my mind, but surely that. Japanese ink wash, perfect.

As much as he tends to treat his skills and swordsmanship like an art form, plus the meditation and spirituality, he's gotta have a little bit of an artistic soul in there somewhere.


yeah Leo seems like the type to totally be into spirituality.
and i think he'd definitely take on relaxing hobbies like art that also require study, practice and discipline.
ink wash definitely fits that bill. :D

the way i see Leo, he see's his hobbies as skills to be mastered. and takes them just as seriously.

i can definitely even imagine some craftsman's pride in sword-making, as we saw with Hatori Hanzo in Kill Bill vol.1.

i do like the bookworm angle that we've sometimes seen a bit of in Mirage.

the Nick series has traded the books for comics, which is actually pretty cool.
but didn't they show Leo having a collection of comics in Tmnt2 secret of the ooze when April came home and was picking up after the turtles?

Coola Yagami
01-23-2017, 11:53 PM
So based on the posts I read, I can only guess that the only thing future incarnations will take away from this is possibly giving each turtle their individual design and body type.

I really doubt we'll see any Nick original characters like Tiger Claw or Snakeweed ever again unless they start popping up in other media like movies and in the comics. I assume the next big show will be focusing on its own original villains, alongside shredder and the foot of course.

Like I said, I just don't see any actual plots here that are worth recreating since 90% of the plots are already from past versions. Even now some people here are hoping for the battle nexus in the next season which is, again, just another rehash, instead of something brand new. The battle nexus itself was brand new in 2K3 and we wouldn't even be talking about it if they didn't have the creativity to make it in the first place. I mean, I doubt fans will be demanding the psychic April plot line be brought back in future incarnations.

I think the only cool visual worth adapting is the rain of Mutagen cannisters if they decide to go the 'lots of mutants route'.

And I also hope the next series doesn't run through the silent partner/return to new york and triceraton/Fugitoid arc a third time.

Technogeek29
01-24-2017, 12:09 AM
So based on the posts I read, I can only guess that the only thing future incarnations will take away from this is possibly giving each turtle their individual design and body type.

I really doubt we'll see any Nick original characters like Tiger Claw or Snakeweed ever again unless they start popping up in other media like movies and in the comics. I assume the next big show will be focusing on its own original villains, alongside shredder and the foot of course.

Like I said, I just don't see any actual plots here that are worth recreating since 90% of the plots are already from past versions. Even now some people here are hoping for the battle nexus in the next season which is, again, just another rehash, instead of something brand new. The battle nexus itself was brand new in 2K3 and we wouldn't even be talking about it if they didn't have the creativity to make it in the first place.

I think the only cool visual worth adapting is the rain of Mutagen cannisters if they decide to go the 'lots of mutants route'.

And I also hope the next series doesn't run through the silent partner/return to new york and triceraton/Fugitoid arc a third time.


I don't mind those stories but I seen them twice in both recent incarnations so skipping over them is fine by me in the next. I see everyone says unique designs but this is the first cartoon version to do use it. The first one with the Turtles not being carbon copies with different weapons or mask is the 1990 film. Tigerclaw has the chance of making a resurgence within the franchise, but the others most likely not. Xever and Bradford if they show up again most likely won't be mutated or used very heavily.

This is a spoiler if you have not seen all of season 4 do not look you have been warned.
Props to being the only version to kill off Splinter for good (granted they did way too many fake outs making it lose impact) I don't think a story will revisit this again as Nick has mined this plot point heavily.

I would like for them to not make a young version of April and Casey again, they didn't do much with it to really warrant the change IDW (albeit a lot less lately) show April and Casey do have a life outside the TMNT. I think the reason was to have them more involved in the Turtles adventures but high schoolers don't have that kind of free time. Also they don't need to be glued to the Turtles if they were interesting enough we could've had episodes dedicated solely to them and at times we almost did. But most of us find Casey too obnoxious and April too much of a Mary Sue for us to want to sit through that.

All in all it doesn't have a lot of stuff that doesn't already exist and it's original concepts are over shadowed by Mirage/FW/2K3 (to a lesser extent) content that we eat up more than it's original content. No seriously read the majority of the post here, the reused concepts are the things we get the most hyped about.

CyberCubed
01-24-2017, 12:46 AM
So based on the posts I read, I can only guess that the only thing future incarnations will take away from this is possibly giving each turtle their individual design and body type.

No.

I really doubt we'll see any Nick original characters like Tiger Claw or Snakeweed ever again unless they start popping up in other media like movies and in the comics. I assume the next big show will be focusing on its own original villains, alongside shredder and the foot of course.

Why on earth would you make such a bizarre statement? If anything we've learned about the TMNT franchise over 25+ years, is that ANY character can come back.

Just like we never expected to see Lord Dregg, Armaggon, Muckman, the Neutrinos (in IDW), etc ever again after the original series....and then they're all come back. So by the same token, I wouldn't be surprised to see many of the Nick created mutants return for a future series. You're also not thinking of how exposed the Nick show is to kids and how they'll have nostalgia for it when they get older like we did for the original cartoon.

Like I said, I just don't see any actual plots here that are worth recreating since 90% of the plots are already from past versions. Even now some people here are hoping for the battle nexus in the next season which is, again, just another rehash, instead of something brand new. The battle nexus itself was brand new in 2K3 and we wouldn't even be talking about it if they didn't have the creativity to make it in the first place. I mean, I doubt fans will be demanding the psychic April plot line be brought back in future incarnations.

Wow, as if IDW doesn't do mostly the same thing? Outside of some unique aspects like the Pantheon, the vast majority of IDW's plotlines and characters are just new takes on old stories we've seen for years.

The fact that we're about to begin another "Bishop tracks down the Turtles and other mutants story" in IDW says enough in itself.

ssjup81
01-24-2017, 12:52 AM
Curious, what makes you guys prefer Nick Leo to 4Kids Leo? The fact that Nick Leo was in the process of learning to be a leader, while 4Kids Leo was pretty much always self-assured and a proven leader?I can't say for 2003 Leo, but what you wrote for Nick Leo is why I favor this one, a first for me, over other versions of him that I've had exposure to. He isn't perfect, nor does he come across as such. I like how he started off unsure, but growing over time to become a good leader and earn his brothers' respect. I like the fact that even though he's the most serious about training, Raph being the other, he does have other things he liked. He just felt more relatable.

Tarris Vaal
01-24-2017, 02:22 AM
For my own two cents

* I agree with the general consensus on Leo - I find that he is more likeable, he is more flawed, but retains much of what was good about other iterations while expanding on them with hobbies etc.

And while I think I can see a lot of that in the IDW Leo as well, I think Nick's edges it - at least for me. And besides this thread is what the Nick version brought in ;)

* A stronger focus on the turtles as Teenagers rather than young adults - which is something I've found 2k3 had a bad habit of doing.

* Easily one of the best Shredders - flawed, interesting, driven and ruthless.

* The Karai/Splinter family connection. I think this really has made a mark and will reappear consistently down the line.

* Don/April I also think - Like it or Loath it - will be a consistent thing that comes up from now on. It added a huge alternative angle to Don, who is otherwise all too easily relegated to 'does machines' (looking at you 2k7, OT, 2k3, 90s movies). Personally I overall thought this was a good idea, albeit with occasions that others have brought up regularly that were badly written or conceived by the writers. When it worked it worked well, when it didn't it was cringeworthy. Hopefully future efforts will see this as a lesson to be learned from and treat the idea more carefully.
I will acknowledge IDW did at least go a different route by avoiding this altogether, but still giving Don extra - so I think we'll see this crop up, but it may not necessarily be a major part of any future arc for him. Its still a good way of touching on the subject of 'love as part of growing up' whether it leads anywhere or not it remains a good lesson.

* New Villains and alternate versions - Xever/Fishface I really liked. Tigerclaw was awesome when he was the go to '**** about to go down' enforcer. The new take on Rahzar was great when it was threatening. Karai as a late teens teenager worked well. A less combaty Rat King focusing more on intelligence and cunning over brute force was very very welcome. Although I'm not a great fan of the Nick Bebop/Rocksteady, I did like Ivan/Anton as their own characters and the acknowledgement that there are more villain groups beyond the Dragons, Mafia and Foot.

* Casey/April as teenagers. Again a controversial subject but I think one that worked overall. It changed the dynamic in an interesting manner and allowed Splinter to take a father role to both of them. Again you could argue IDW kept them older, but that said it wasn't by much. I think this was a good experiment that showed reasonable results.

* Animation fluidity and style. The show looks great and has improved consistently over time. Proof that the CGI does work for the turtles in a TV medium.

* A greater focus on Stealth and Ninja skills, and a willingness not to shy away from darker subject matter. Yeah 2k3 had its moments too - fair enough - but even 2k3 didn't end a series with Splinter dead and the planet obliterated. It never showed a giant mutant stamping on a hero's arm with a gruesome snap. Nor did it show skeletal bodies of known characters or have a friendly character go insane and break a major protagonists bones on screen (April vs Raph). Nick has shown it can go that extra step and more importantly that doing so is to be Encouraged!



I'm sure there was more, but I think that covered everything important.

Overall this has been a good solid series with some risk taking and experimental ideas that - though they may not have worked well all the time, did at least try them and in many cases succeeded.

Coola Yagami
01-24-2017, 07:09 AM
No.



Why on earth would you make such a bizarre statement? If anything we've learned about the TMNT franchise over 25+ years, is that ANY character can come back.

Just like we never expected to see Lord Dregg, Armaggon, Muckman, the Neutrinos (in IDW), etc ever again after the original series....and then they're all come back. So by the same token, I wouldn't be surprised to see many of the Nick created mutants return for a future series. You're also not thinking of how exposed the Nick show is to kids and how they'll have nostalgia for it when they get older like we did for the original cartoon.



Wow, as if IDW doesn't do mostly the same thing? Outside of some unique aspects like the Pantheon, the vast majority of IDW's plotlines and characters are just new takes on old stories we've seen for years.

The fact that we're about to begin another "Bishop tracks down the Turtles and other mutants story" in IDW says enough in itself.

I'm not counting the idw comics in this. You know kids don't read them as often and that has nothing to do with the nick cartoon. And unless the next cartoon is a straight up idea adaptation, you know it's not going to use references from that comic.

And yeah, the nick cartoon shows anyone can come back, but in doing so it didn't really do enough original story arcs or make enough new characters, or when it does it somehow turns the new characters into old characters at least in name only.

IndigoErth
01-24-2017, 10:49 AM
* Easily one of the best Shredders - flawed, interesting, driven and ruthless.
Definitely. I like that they touched on the fact that he isn't just a relentless evil villain, but that he's basically insane and blinded by it.

CyberCubed
01-24-2017, 11:39 AM
And yeah, the nick cartoon shows anyone can come back, but in doing so it didn't really do enough original story arcs or make enough new characters, or when it does it somehow turns the new characters into old characters at least in name only.

No it doesn't, so basically the same thing any TMNT incarnation does. 4kids Karai is Mirage Karai in name only. 4kids Rat King is Mirage Rat King in name only. IDW's versions of all the characters are older characters in name only.

All the new series do new takes on old characters.

Coola Yagami
01-24-2017, 12:10 PM
No it doesn't, so basically the same thing any TMNT incarnation does. 4kids Karai is Mirage Karai in name only. 4kids Rat King is Mirage Rat King in name only. IDW's versions of all the characters are older characters in name only.

All the new series do new takes on old characters.

Guess you missed the point. Each new series adds new characters and plots that future series adapt. Mirage has the basics, the OT had all the extra mutants and technodrome. 2K3 had bishop and Hun. The nick show has.... um....? I mean what new story arcs do they have to work with?

Like I said, the only thing I'm seeing so far is giving the turtles different looks. If some other new incarnation makes April a teen again then we can point the finger at nick for the inspiration.

Andrew NDB
01-24-2017, 12:16 PM
Stylistically it is/was... interesting. Like IDW, though, another study in "How can we blend together everything TMNT, ever" and not so much, "I have a really original vision for TMNT."

But hey. It's a cartoon for little kids, so whatever.

Tarris Vaal
01-24-2017, 12:40 PM
The nick show has.... um....? I mean what new story arcs do they have to work with? Quoted from Coola Yagami


Well to name a few;

* April's development into a combat capable character - from her induction into Ninja training in Season 1 to the emergence of a 'Dark April' in Season 5.

(and I am well aware not everyone was a fan of this - but then I wasn't fond of the storyline that said she was a pencil drawing. Swings and roundabouts eh?)

* Ivan Steranko and Zeck Anton as criminal elements distinct from the Foot.

* Nicks take on Slash and the introduction of Pigeon Pete - both of whom have now been incorporated into IDW.

* Timothy/Pulverizer storyline (admittedly, not seen through to a satisfying conclusion - yet)

* New mutants including the Creep, Fishface, Dogpound, Snakeweed, Tigerclaw, Spiderbytez, Chimera, Speed Demon, Mushroom men, Parasitica wasp, Dr Rockwell, Newtralizer and Serpent Karai - to name a few. Plus human originals like Shinagami.

Now I'll admit a lot of those are just elements and not 'arcs' but Nick did successfully implement a blend of Shredder's revenge arcs with the Kraang (Utrom) Invasion - including the added surprise of Kraang Sub Prime (another series original).

Season 3 and 4 have been more focused on existing older story arcs - but 4 concluded the Dark april arc (a Nick original) and gave us a decent Super Shredder arc (which is original in inception, even if not in concept)



Plus its not always necessary to invent a completely new story arc to work with, when you can instead take a fresh look at an existing one.

The Kraang invasion of Earth is hardly a fresh concept, but Nick did provide a very different technodrome, very different Rock soldiers, the Kraang as a completely reinvented enslaved hive mind, and a good origin of the mutagen.

Shredder's vengeance arc is also very much not original, but I think its fair to say that Nick has put a unique variant of it out there.

myconius
01-24-2017, 01:02 PM
i'm really hoping the whole Donatello being all Hawt Dawg over April vanishes after this series is done!

no . . . . . . . . . . thanks.

DestronMirage22
01-24-2017, 01:40 PM
That even with a big as IP as TMNT, Nick still sucks ass.

Coola Yagami
01-24-2017, 01:43 PM
i'm really hoping the whole Donatello being all Hawt Dawg over April vanishes after this series is done!

no . . . . . . . . . . thanks.

That or anyone else. Between nick Don and PDC Mikey please don't make the next Raph or Leo want her.

I didn't mind it as much on the nick show but they didn't execute it properly and made Don come off as creepy at times. Had April liked him the same way it woulda been a different story.

IndigoErth
01-24-2017, 01:45 PM
Yeeeeah.....

I'm fine with the Turtles having little crushes on people, including human people, but Donnie is overboard and not a good example of 'how to crush on someone.'

And April's lack of ever saying a damn thing despite being fully aware. I get it, it's awkward for her, but come on. (And worse when they have her throw confusing signals.)

myconius
01-24-2017, 01:49 PM
That or anyone else. Between nick Don and PDC Mikey please don't make the next Raph or Leo want her.

I didn't mind it as much on the nick show but they didn't execute it properly and made Don come off as creepy at times. Had April liked him the same way it woulda been a different story.

i agree. i didn't like the idea of April being reduced to just an object of desire for any character.

and true! Don did come off as WAYYYYYYY too creepy for a kid's cartoon.
even if she did like him back the same way, not something i wanna see :lol:


Yeeeeah.....

I'm fine with the Turtles having little crushes on people, including human people, but Donnie is overboard and not a good example of 'how to crush on someone.'

And April's lack of ever saying a damn thing despite being fully aware. I get it, it's awkward for her, but come on. (And worse when they have her throw confusing signals.)

^ THIS TOO!!!!

BubblyShell22
01-24-2017, 03:03 PM
I really enjoyed this series from the introduction of new characters like Xever and Tiger Claw as well as Shinigami to the revamp of existing characters such as Mutagen Man, Rahzar, and Rat King. I also like Karai as Splinter's daughter and this Leo has to be my favorite incarnation of him ever. He is still the serious leader while still having a hobby of his own and is a bit of a geek which we can all relate to at times. I didn't mind the Donnie crush and while I did think he went a bit overboard on some things, we have to remember that he's lived in the sewers for most of his life so he doesn't know how to act around humans or how to express his love properly. But he did correct himself a few times overall when April got a little upset over some things.

I also liked all of the references we saw to past incarnations plus the crossovers with the OT Turtles. It felt like a great love letter to the franchise as a whole so I was very pleased with it. If season five is indeed the end, then this was a great run. I think this has to be my favorite out of all the cartoon franchises and will always be the one I think about when people ask me about TMNT and it definitely will be the universe I write about in my stories.

I also agree about 2K3 Leo being very one dimensional with his interests. Nick Leo is definitely better in this regard.

myconius
01-24-2017, 03:51 PM
if the series does end after season 5, i wonder how long it'll be before someone decides to try to do another Tmnt cartoon or if it'll lay dormant for a while?

Coola Yagami
01-24-2017, 06:55 PM
And now we face the biggest fear we had since the buyout. Nick owns the tmnt and they probably won't be letting them go any time soon even if they never intended to use them again like so many nicktoons past. So after this series is done it'll be up to them if they want to do a revival.

Shark_Blade
01-24-2017, 07:27 PM
Interspecies mating is possible.

And Leorai ftw (it's not incest since they're not blood related).

Papenbrook
01-24-2017, 07:28 PM
While I think that the show was/is surprisingly decent at its best, it was/is absolutely terrible at its worst. As a result, I have mixed feelings about the series.

myconius
01-24-2017, 07:46 PM
i think the series fell into the same trap TV's Buffy the Vampire Slayer did.
they tried to make every season finale OH SO EPIC!

there's only so many times you can "kill" Master Splinter or threaten the entire planet before things really becomes old hat.

it is possible to tell stories on a smaller scale and still be entertaining.

i dunno. that's just my take.

CyberCubed
01-24-2017, 07:46 PM
The Nick cartoon has been fantastic. There were a few bad episodes of course, but every show has those so it's understandable.

IndigoErth
01-24-2017, 07:54 PM
And now we face the biggest fear we had since the buyout. Nick owns the tmnt and they probably won't be letting them go any time soon even if they never intended to use them again like so many nicktoons past. So after this series is done it'll be up to them if they want to do a revival.
A fear I've had for quite a while.

Don't they dare go and buy them only to decide to shelve them indefinitely with no interest in doing anything more or allowing anyone else the right to... At that point the public needs to pester them to no end. :tsad:


Interspecies mating is possible.

And Leorai ftw (it's not incest since they're not blood related).
Well that was random.

Only the act of it is possible. Maybe. But if Hamato Yoshi's DNA is a part of the human side of the Turtles, then I beg to differ on the "not related" thing, even if it happened in some roundabout way to a lesser degree than normal relatives. Not that they can breed either way... it just makes it socially/morally weird to be calling the same guy father. And I'm not so sure Leo would be unbothered by that.



That said. I guess this is the first TMNT who DIRECTLY made Leo have a thing for Karai. Elsewhere you just have to read into it if that is what you want to see. I think I liked it that way better, though in terms of the Turtles having crushes I prefer how Nick went about it with Leo vs how they did with Donnie.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
01-24-2017, 07:56 PM
And now, after pages of actual topical discussion, this thread will burn to the ground in a fury (or is that furry?) of "shipping" arguments. :trolleye:

plastroncafe
01-24-2017, 08:40 PM
Hmmm. What did I take away from this series:

- I liked take-charge quasi-proactive Splinter.
Really, the Nick Splinter is my favorite incarnation of Splinter, which pains me because it only just slightly tops the TMNT (2007) version because Mako.

- Angry/Frustrated Donnie is all kinds of awesome.
There's just something about the No Chill Donnie that I find endlessly amusing.

- The Casting of non-voice actors as voice actors, and how I started to re-think my position on it.
Normally I'm not a huge fan of non-voice actors doing cartoons, but Biggs and Astin really hit it out of the park with their Leo and Raph.
That first season is just so good.

ToTheNines
01-24-2017, 09:15 PM
And now, after pages of actual topical discussion, this thread will burn to the ground in a fury (or is that furry?) of "shipping" arguments. :trolleye:


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f3/be/4f/f3be4f9581165e7e1bee05d15ae13265.jpg

plastroncafe
01-24-2017, 09:18 PM
And now, after pages of actual topical discussion, this thread will burn to the ground in a fury (or is that furry?) of "shipping" arguments. :trolleye:

Scaley. Not furry.
Just...you know, for accuracy's sake.

Jephael
01-24-2017, 10:21 PM
Stylistically it is/was... interesting. Like IDW, though, another study in "How can we blend together everything TMNT, ever" and not so much, "I have a really original vision for TMNT."

In a weird way I agree with you, but at the same time coming from a creative perspective, I get how it's hard to come up with a truly original spin on something that's already been revamped about a dozen times. There are only so many different ways to tell a story. IDW did have a pretty interesting take on the Turtles' origin, having them be Hamato Yoshi's reincarnated sons and April's powers in this series are really the only big stand-out thing about the show, but aside from that it's pretty much the same old shtick we've seen in past interpretations.

Technogeek29
01-24-2017, 11:22 PM
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f3/be/4f/f3be4f9581165e7e1bee05d15ae13265.jpg

Where did you find that?
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

ssjup81
01-25-2017, 12:07 AM
You know, the crushes don’t bother me much. It’s not overly done and isn’t focused on all that much. Leo’s interactions with Karai are just so darn cute on his part. He’s such a dork. lol I love it, even if I don’t “ship” them.

Now, during the first season, Donnie did bother me slightly, but I never found much of what he did “creepy” given the context and how innocent it all was on his part. I didn’t find the “chart” creepy since the episode was showing how Donnie overthinks, overanalyzes, and plans ahead in a general sense…not just with April. His chart, to me, showed me a character with the mind of a great chess player. He considered all his options to try and find ways to hang with her and to get to know her better, and to me, that’s no different from a girl taking a certain path to her class to bump into her crush to talk. The thing about how he knew she would be in the park that one time also didn’t surprise me since he had a photo of him and April IN the park. Makes sense that he would know if she hangs there or not at a certain time if he’s been there with her.

Hm, you know, it’s also like going to the amusement park for the first time. You don’t know what to try or do first because you’d never been there before. Or maybe it’s like a child who’s been homeschooled all their life and then suddenly forced to attend a public school. Of course that person is going to act awkward due to the fact that the experience is new. This is how I viewed Donnie regarding April.

I think the only way this set up would bother me, is if Donnie had never changed, and still came across as awkward around April. I like their friendship and I like how Donnie matured regarding her. He doesn’t act all goofy over her and won’t drop everything at the drop of a hat if April’s involved. The fact that people are still complaining about traits from season 1 which makes me wonder what show some of these people are watching. They drop a hint every once in a while (sometimes for a comedic effect), but they’re nowhere near as prominent as season 1. I just don’t see how anyone could even put PD Mikey and Nick Donnie on the same level here. PD Mikey was creepy. We knew what he was talking about and reminded me more of Nick Casey than Donnie.

Okay, nothing more I can say about this particular topic.

Coola Yagami
01-25-2017, 07:56 AM
Yeah, I'll end the crush part with this post.

IMO Don was creepier to the viewers that were all like 'ewww turtles no like girls' than April herself. She never really seemed all that annoyed and awkward as she is, she does seem the type to stand up to him and tell him to cut it out if she was annoyed.

I consider guys like Urkel and Screech to be creepy since the girls they're after are clearly annoyed and bothered by them and yet they persist. April would still hang out with Donnie which is kinda the opposite of what anyone wouod want to do if they were creeped out by someone.

The biggest deal was the time Don finally let April go and she seemed horrified. I mean, Don wasn't leaving the team nor kicking April off the team nor did he say they couldn't just be friends anymore, nothing would change except he'd stop acting romantic around her and April didn't want that, and then she kissed him.

Casey.... was just a third wheel. If he wasn't so stupid and unlike able, or was just more interested in action than girls like the OT, (and more competent) he woulda been better. Or introduce him in season 1. The writers just wanted a love triangle in a ninja turtles cartoom.... for some reason. Honestly if people weren't all 'turtles and humans, ewww' and Casey wasn't already April's guy in other media, noone would have been pushing this idiot on April.

The final problem is, tmnt just isn't meant to have romance. There really isn't any room for that since it is mostly action and tragedy. Much like DBZ that also didn't have much romance. Sure characters get married and have kids but the series doesn't dwell on that. They hint some characters like each other, then time skip, then bam, married and kids... and now that we got that out of the way, back to epic battles and new transformations. So just hint that casey/don likes April and then off to fight the foot. Noone expected a romance subplot in the series, let alone a love triangle, and I'm sure most of the kids watching the show are still in the 'ew girls' stage... so they really just shouldn't have bothered.

Anyways here's hoping season 5 ends with an epic new end boss shredder-replacement type villain for generations to come, much like Bishop was in the past cartoon, and... I guess Lord Dregg was in the OT. This is your last chance to really be new and original and create an awesome new story arc for future series to draw inspiration from.

Metalwolf
01-25-2017, 09:40 AM
So based on the posts I read, I can only guess that the only thing future incarnations will take away from this is possibly giving each turtle their individual design and body type.

I really doubt we'll see any Nick original characters like Tiger Claw or Snakeweed ever again unless they start popping up in other media like movies and in the comics. I assume the next big show will be focusing on its own original villains, alongside shredder and the foot of course.

Like I said, I just don't see any actual plots here that are worth recreating since 90% of the plots are already from past versions. Even now some people here are hoping for the battle nexus in the next season which is, again, just another rehash, instead of something brand new. The battle nexus itself was brand new in 2K3 and we wouldn't even be talking about it if they didn't have the creativity to make it in the first place. I mean, I doubt fans will be demanding the psychic April plot line be brought back in future incarnations.

I think the only cool visual worth adapting is the rain of Mutagen cannisters if they decide to go the 'lots of mutants route'.

And I also hope the next series doesn't run through the silent partner/return to new york and triceraton/Fugitoid arc a third time.Definitely the kind of post I would have made if I hadn't been so crabby that day. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I don't mind those stories but I seen them twice in both recent incarnations so skipping over them is fine by me in the next. I see everyone says unique designs but this is the first cartoon version to do use it. The first one with the Turtles not being carbon copies with different weapons or mask is the 1990 film. Tigerclaw has the chance of making a resurgence within the franchise, but the others most likely not. Xever and Bradford if they show up again most likely won't be mutated or used very heavily.


...........

All in all it doesn't have a lot of stuff that doesn't already exist and it's original concepts are over shadowed by Mirage/FW/2K3 (to a lesser extent) content that we eat up more than it's original content. No seriously read the majority of the post here, the reused concepts are the things we get the most hyped about.


Wow, as if IDW doesn't do mostly the same thing? Outside of some unique aspects like the Pantheon, the vast majority of IDW's plotlines and characters are just new takes on old stories we've seen for years.

The fact that we're about to begin another "Bishop tracks down the Turtles and other mutants story" in IDW says enough in itself.I quoted both of these posts, because I think they illustrated why it seems TMNT seems to be endlessly reusing old concepts. Fans constantly want old storylines brought back, and and so it's all the studios/comics give to them. I'm wondering if this will harm TMNT in the long run, when the iterations just keep redoing the same old things?

As for Nick, I do wonder if they will end up sitting on it too. All they care about is the Sponge, and I wouldn't be surprised if they keep milking that show to death (even to the point of getting a new voice actor if the one voicing the Sponge meets his Maker.)

PApagreg
01-25-2017, 10:01 AM
* A greater focus on Stealth and Ninja skills, and a willingness not to shy away from darker subject matter. Yeah 2k3 had its moments too - fair enough - but even 2k3 didn't end a series with Splinter dead and the planet obliterated. It never showed a giant mutant stamping on a hero's arm with a gruesome snap. Nor did it show skeletal bodies of known characters or have a friendly character go insane and break a major protagonists bones on screen (April vs Raph). Nick has shown it can go that extra step and more importantly that doing so is to be Encouraged!



I'm sure there was more, but I think that covered everything important.

Overall this has been a good solid series with some risk taking and experimental ideas that - though they may not have worked well all the time, did at least try them and in many cases succeeded.

I don't know about the ninja part, I mean sure they were more like Ninjas compared to the 2k3 series with more examples of stealth(like you said) and pragmatism but it seems like the writers sort of downplayed it after season 2 hell I remember more examples of Casey acting like a ninja then the turtles in season 3.

As for the darkness yeah blowing up the Earth seem dark on paper but the cast barely reacted to it and the fact that hot chocolate and the promise of space adventure seemed to calm their nerves didn't really helped much, hell April and Casey barely reacted that their families and friends got sucked up by a black hole.

victory_angel
01-25-2017, 10:17 AM
You know, the crushes don’t bother me much. It’s not overly done and isn’t focused on all that much. Leo’s interactions with Karai are just so darn cute on his part. He’s such a dork. lol I love it, even if I don’t “ship” them.

Now, during the first season, Donnie did bother me slightly, but I never found much of what he did “creepy” given the context and how innocent it all was on his part. I didn’t find the “chart” creepy since the episode was showing how Donnie overthinks, overanalyzes, and plans ahead in a general sense…not just with April. His chart, to me, showed me a character with the mind of a great chess player. He considered all his options to try and find ways to hang with her and to get to know her better, and to me, that’s no different from a girl taking a certain path to her class to bump into her crush to talk. The thing about how he knew she would be in the park that one time also didn’t surprise me since he had a photo of him and April IN the park. Makes sense that he would know if she hangs there or not at a certain time if he’s been there with her.

Hm, you know, it’s also like going to the amusement park for the first time. You don’t know what to try or do first because you’d never been there before. Or maybe it’s like a child who’s been homeschooled all their life and then suddenly forced to attend a public school. Of course, that person is going to act awkward due to the fact that the experience is new. This is how I viewed Donnie regarding April.

I think the only way this set up would bother me, is if Donnie had never changed, and still came across as awkward around April. I like their friendship and I like how Donnie matured regarding her. He doesn’t act all goofy over her and won’t drop everything at the drop of a hat if April’s involved. The fact that people are still complaining about traits from season 1 which makes me wonder what show some of these people are watching. They drop a hint every once in a while (sometimes for a comedic effect), but they’re nowhere near as prominent as season 1. I just don’t see how anyone could even put PD Mikey and Nick Donnie on the same level here. PD Mikey was creepy. We knew what he was talking about and reminded me more of Nick Casey than Donnie.

Okay, nothing more I can say about this particular topic.

I agree. Donnie's initial efforts to try and attract April's interests were more childish in nature than actually creepy. Think of it as an equivalent of a little boy coming up to a little girl and saying "Do you want to hold my hand?"

Up until the Turtles were 15 they had lived underground in what is practically an all-male society. The only exposure to the fairer sex as it were, was through TV and Donnie's computers. So all they really would have understood about females is that girls were different.

Splinter would have had the talk about puberty and the whole birds and bees thing. Just so they would know and understand that aspect of life. And because of this, they understood the whole intercourse aspect is something they really will never have ever. Then Donnie sees and falls in love with April.

Donnie clearly wants a full relationship with April, but doesn't want to push her more then she feels she is comfortable with. Which is why every time he slips up and calls her his "Princess" he tries to back peddle and cover for it.
So he seeks companionship in her, not a mate.

Casey on the other hand in season 2 seems to think of April as a conquest as he does asks when they are going to go on a real date. And than states his idea is a place that is more intimate. (In otherwords a place where they can make out.)

Splinter seems to understand that Donnie's feelings towards April are deeper than just a crush. When Donnie first speaks up in the first episode about how there were two innocent people who had been abducted and that they didn't have a year to wait to be rescued. Splinter at first is angry that Donnie is speaking out of turn, but after Donnie pleads his case further. Splinter seems to sense something then turns looks at the photo of his wife and child and says "Yes, go save these people."

If it had just simply been a crush, Splinter would have simply said "I know you want to do what you feel is noble, but you don't know these people. Let the authorities on the surface deal with the abduction."

To the other Turtle's Donnie's infatuation towards April is seen as just a crush or in the case of Raph, a happy little delusion that will only end up with Donnie getting hurt.

This is why Raph spells it out for Donnie in episodes such as "Operation: Breakout" and "A Foot too Big" where he needs to accept that April is not going to return his feelings in the way he wishes she would.

Or comforting Donnie...(at least what Raph views as comforting) by telling him to not to be so upset that April is gone and that she would be back when she calmed down.

But the moment when April divorces herself from the Turtles does affect her as well. Take the moment when she catchs Donnie following her.

Some people have confused shadowing with stalking. Stalking is following a person in a way that makes a person feel uncomfortable, threatened, or harassed.

Shadowing is just following a someone closely. And Donnie was only shadowing April to make sure she was okay.

April only attacked him because she sensed she was being followed not that she was being threatened. And as annoyed as she is that Donnie was following her when she had told him she never wanted to see him again. When she turns away from him she looks more sad than angry. So she clearly misses the Turtles, but she feels that being apart from them is for the best

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-25-2017, 10:26 AM
Kraang-Utrom conflict.

CyberCubed
01-25-2017, 02:17 PM
I definitely like the idea of the Kraang simply because mind controlled Utrom. It finally connects the link between Krang and the Utroms dating back to the original cartoon.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-25-2017, 03:35 PM
Four episodes, four weeks break. All the time (not even counting the summertime breaks and Advent-Christmas-New Year breaks between late-November and mid-January), and at least one season spanning over entire years....

Technogeek29
01-26-2017, 09:31 PM
Something to add, IDW Leo loves to play video games but pretends not to like them because Mikey keeps beating him:lol: Raph even said it to him. He even nicked named his Katana's like a dork.

myconius
01-26-2017, 09:53 PM
something to add, idw leo loves to play video games but pretends not to like them because mikey keeps beating him:lol: Raph even said it to him. He even nicked named his katana's like a dork.

musashi and kamiizumi :D

myconius
01-26-2017, 09:56 PM
i'd really like to see this naming of the swords (MUSASHI AND KAMIIZUMI) explored.

it'd be even funnier if they weren't the typical names of the famous historical figures that he named them after, but of some (made-up) Anime characters instead.

neatoman
01-27-2017, 05:05 AM
I definitely like the idea of the Kraang simply because mind controlled Utrom. It finally connects the link between Krang and the Utroms dating back to the original cartoon.

I just liked that the Kraang were brainwashed Utroms because I didn't like the idea of the of the Kraang simply being this show's version of the Utroms. Renaming the Utroms "The Kraang", making them outright villains, giving them a hivemind and a redundant speech pattern just never sat right with me, so I felt relief when they made it clear that the regular Utroms still existed as part of this version.

Ashwolf
01-27-2017, 10:44 AM
I just liked that the Kraang were brainwashed Utroms because I didn't like the idea of the of the Kraang simply being this show's version of the Utroms. Renaming the Utroms "The Kraang", making them outright villains, giving them a hivemind and a redundant speech pattern just never sat right with me, so I felt relief when they made it clear that the regular Utroms still existed as part of this version.

same here, when i 1st heard about the kraang being a whole race, i was soooo "uhhhhh, no, just no" but glad it actually is still utroms as the race

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-27-2017, 04:58 PM
I just liked that the Kraang were brainwashed Utroms because I didn't like the idea of the of the Kraang simply being this show's version of the Utroms. Renaming the Utroms "The Kraang", making them outright villains, giving them a hivemind and a redundant speech pattern just never sat right with me, so I felt relief when they made it clear that the regular Utroms still existed as part of this version.

I like both the Kraang and the Utroms in general.

Vegita-San
01-27-2017, 05:06 PM
Now that the series is near its end... what did it actually do? What did it really bring to the table for future incarnations?

What exactly did this new series bring? Just more grotesque mutants and that psychic April storyline? What story did this series introduce for the next one to adapt? I just don't see the next big tmnt show recreating the psychic April plot or bringing back dogpound and fishface.

it showed five people where running it and not one really knew what it wanted to be. it was too big an investment to mess up in it's first outing, so they tried to make it everything at once and hope something stuck.

which, IMHO, sadly it didn't.

about the only thing good this series gave us was TigerClaw. FishFace and DogPound COULD have been great in their human forms....once they became mutants, not so much and basically got forgotten about.

everything else has basically been a retread, in some cases done better elsewhere.


cue cubed insult right a bout now. start that drinking game, fellas :)

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-27-2017, 05:08 PM
about the only thing good this series gave us was TigerClaw. FishFace and DogPound COULD have been great in their human forms....once they became mutants, not so much and basically got forgotten about.

I like Tigerclaw as a mutant, not the other two.

Vegita-San
01-27-2017, 05:12 PM
Stalker Donnie, Date Rape Donnie, Nice Guy Donnie, Fedora M'Lady Donnie...

Right up there with Platinum Dunes' Urkel Donnie. Classic.

i t hink of him as stalker creeper donnie.

my least favorite iteration of the character, along with their version of mikey. complete dumb ass.

Vegita-San
01-27-2017, 05:18 PM
While I think that the show was/is surprisingly decent at its best, it was/is absolutely terrible at its worst. As a result, I have mixed feelings about the series.

good way to describe it.

Good - most of the first season

The worst? alot of everything else. i've banished 'the finger' from memory as a fever dream.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-27-2017, 05:20 PM
about the only thing good this series gave us was TigerClaw. FishFace and DogPound COULD have been great in their human forms....once they became mutants, not so much and basically got forgotten about.

Bebop and Rocksteady are also OK as mutants.

CyberCubed
01-27-2017, 05:20 PM
about the only thing good this series gave us was TigerClaw. FishFace and DogPound COULD have been great in their human forms....once they became mutants, not so much and basically got forgotten about.

Why the hell do you keep saying "basically forgotten about?" What the hell does that even mean when they constantly appear in almost all the Shredder related episodes?

cue cubed insult right a bout now. start that drinking game, fellas :)

That's because you constantly prove you have no idea what you're saying in regards to this show.

It's hard to believe you're in your mid 30's too, all you do is whine about a kids show.

Metalwolf
01-27-2017, 07:48 PM
It's hard to believe you're in your mid 30's too, all you do is whine about a kids show.And you are a 30 year old man who thinks it's pure spun gold? :roll:

CyberCubed
01-27-2017, 08:04 PM
And you are a 30 year old man who thinks it's pure spun gold? :roll:

You don't see the difference between someone who spends so much time purposely hating on a show and whining on it constantly and continually doing it for years, over people who like and enjoy the show?

I mean I don't get this logic. Usually when I don't like shows I simply stop following them and stop talking about them.

Cure
01-27-2017, 11:48 PM
You don't see the difference between someone who spends so much time purposely hating on a show and whining on it constantly and continually doing it for years, over people who like and enjoy the show?

I mean I don't get this logic. Usually when I don't like shows I simply stop following them and stop talking about them.

Yeah, it's a really retarded way of thinking. This is what I've been saying for years in numerous other threads.

ssjup81
01-28-2017, 02:28 AM
You don't see the difference between someone who spends so much time purposely hating on a show and whining on it constantly and continually doing it for years, over people who like and enjoy the show?

I mean I don't get this logic. Usually when I don't like shows I simply stop following them and stop talking about them.I never understood this myself. If I lose interest in something, I generally just stop frequenting sites or message boards focused around said things. I would probably stick to the general parts of the board that discusses many things other than what I lost interest in. Feels like a waste to sit around complaining about something you don't like or have control over. If a person can't find happiness from watching/reading said thing, why bother continuing with it?Bebop and Rocksteady are also OK as mutants.Yeah, they are. I really like them. It's surprising since I wasn't fond of them being added to the cast of mutant henchmen, but I was glad that they were forced and stuff.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-28-2017, 03:27 AM
Yeah, they are. I really like them. It's surprising since I wasn't fond of them being added to the cast of mutant henchmen, but I was glad that they were forced and stuff.

But I could've been without them if they weren't there, because I think Tigerclaw is so cool.

LeotheLateBloomer
01-28-2017, 08:11 AM
But I could've been without them if they weren't there, because I think Tigerclaw is so cool.

Yeah, Tiger Claw, Fishface, and Dogpound/Rahzar (the latter two in their human forms, especially) were interesting choices for henchmen. B&R really didn't add anything to the series. Baxter was good as well but not as a fly.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-28-2017, 08:37 AM
Yeah, Tiger Claw, Fishface, and Dogpound/Rahzar (the latter two in their human forms, especially) were interesting choices for henchmen. B&R really didn't add anything to the series. Baxter was good as well but not as a fly.

Mutant-Karai is still the most unnecessary.

ssjup81
01-28-2017, 09:20 AM
Mutant-Karai is still the most unnecessary.I personally felt it was a good idea. Shredder caused it, fueling her dislike towards him even more and also showed how deluded he was, as he blamed Splinter for it.

Vegita-San
01-28-2017, 09:55 AM
And you are a 30 year old man who thinks it's pure spun gold? :roll:

Oh cubed... right on schedule.

GoldMutant
01-28-2017, 10:08 AM
Oh cubed... right on schedule.

You are trying way too hard to bait him.
______________________________

So, what to take away? The positives I can think of are as follows:

*Some character reinventions worked, some didn't. Slash being the former, others such as Hun, Dregg, and Bishop (to an extent) not so much. Some may have their names slapped on a model and called a day, but others worked out well in this particular universe.

*The Shredder and Splinter story is among the franchise's best, especially due to Karai. Although Karai became more of a placeholder to advance the feud, especially season 3, the story does offer some high emotions when played with correctly.

*CGI, as pointed out by Tarris, can fit the TMNT universe. It took time to find it's stride, but the animation quality has gone up; not my preferred style for TMNT animation, but a strong consideration nonetheless.

*Voice acting, easily the show's biggest strength outside animation and action. I wish in the future more unknown names can be used, but most of the selections fit like a glove. Sean Astin, Hoon Lee, Corey Feldman, David Tennant, and Eric Bauza are the five that immediately come to mind for who they voiced. Other actors and actresses feel too recognizable though, such as Kevin Michael Richardson; it doesn't hurt their characters, but they are a bit too identifiable for my tastes. Solid cast all around.

I may harp on the series a lot as of late, but it's common strengths are good. If only the writing and pacing can be a bit stronger at points like season 1 and parts of season 2 and the show would be better.

Vegita-San
01-28-2017, 10:16 AM
You are trying way too hard to bait him.

actually, i'm not. but he insults right on schedule far more reliably than old faithful simply if you don't agree with him.

dare to say something 'negative' and out he comes no matter what you do....

it gets rather tiring..

Cure
01-28-2017, 10:53 AM
No, what gets tiring is a person complaining incessantly. It's fine to criticize every once in a while and be like "I didn't like this thing", but always whining about it is the worst and most annoying thing for any show or movie. Like it's been said, if you don't like it, move on with your life.

Vegita-San
01-28-2017, 10:55 AM
that's what the ignore button is for my friend. use it, and your internet life will be that much easier. there is no shame in doing so.

telling a person to stop doing what they want to do is never a great way to go.

Cure
01-28-2017, 11:49 AM
Sure, pal. It's just a rather sad life if all you wanna do is consistently focusing on things that upset you.

Vegita-San
01-28-2017, 12:02 PM
Sure, pal. It's just a rather sad life if all you wanna do is consistently focusing on things that upset you.

that's just the thing. it doesn't....i may not be a fan, and there are lots of things i don't like about it, but i don't HATE the series...

and there are things i like about it too. yet some people just constantly focus on the negative and ignore the positive things people say...

and that's what gets tiring...not liking things is just life.

the fact that some people see this as an affront to THEIR life and their enjoyment of things....ugh..

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-28-2017, 12:58 PM
*CGI, as pointed out by Tarris, can fit the TMNT universe.

Almost all animated TV-series and films will sooner or later use CGI. I like the fact that we have three different series, each with it's different style of animation.

Vegita-San
01-28-2017, 01:21 PM
Almost all animated TV-series and films will sooner or later use CGI. I like the fact that we have three different series, each with it's different style of animation.

agreed. i don't see why people hate on it so much. just case it's newer?

Ashwolf
01-28-2017, 01:23 PM
agreed. i don't see why people hate on it so much. just case it's newer?

i wouldnt say its really hate on cgi, its more of how some shows look better done in a particular style - whether its drawn, cgi, or some other type

Tarris Vaal
01-28-2017, 01:59 PM
Thinking about it - another thing to take away from the series (particularly the recent episodes) is that it has shown that it is possible to get darker material past the censors on a well known branded show.

I've said for a while that the biggest weakness this iteration has is its time limit of 25mins. Given that this series is apparently happy to push the envelope of what a 'kids' show can get away with, this could be argued to be laying the ground work for a future iteration that is more deliberately aimed at young adults and has longer episodes to allow the writing to flesh out more.

Combining Nick's push 'up' towards an older demographic, whilst IDW's comics seem to have pushed slightly 'down' towards a younger one compared to the older Mirage stuff - you could be forgiven for hoping this is a foundation for a more plot driven iteration with deeper focus on characters and plot points - moving away from a one shot episodic formula and the shallower writing that results from it.

victory_angel
01-28-2017, 02:02 PM
What i'm taking away from this series.

The stories are a perfect blend of action and comedy. The Fred Wolf series had it's action moments, but it was largely comedic. While the 4Kids version was more largely action based, but still had its comedic moments. So this series balances the two out more with action but having plenty of humorous moments. And also having humorous episodes with plenty of action as well.

This series has shown it's not afraid to kill off members of the main cast all-bet temporarily. In previous versions, there have been moments where there have been moments where a character was seriously hurt or taken down but they generally would be alright by the end of the episode at the earliest. But they were never quote-unquote killed off in a manner of speaking. The only real death in televised TMNT history was Splinter in Back to the Sewers. But it's revealed that he's not really dead, just scattered into a bunch of data bits.

In these past two seasons, we've seen Splinter die on screen and his death is prevented episodes later. Donnie is technically killed off by Za-nopril but he isn't officially dead, just scattered on a molecular level.

Splinter dies permanently in the season 4 finale

They have had a rather heated argument between Leo and Donnie. In previous versions, Donnie would blow up at his brothers in a general sense at times. Raph does have a tendency to rub him the wrong way on occasions. And Mikey would get on Donnie's nerves at times. But often, Donnie and Leo would not get onto each others cases unless absolutely needed.

But during the second invasion, we do witness a rather heated argument that even Mikey is saying "Oh Snap, look these guys are fighting. That never happens."

Different personality types for each of the turtles.
This series has a strong emphasis that these characters are still children even though they are being thrown into adult situations.

In the fredwolf series, the Turtles had their moment where they were serious. But in many cases, even in battle they still acted like children.
In the 4kids series, it was hard to think of them as teenagers because they always acted like they were in their twenties at least.
The nick turtles have traits that indicate they are still young, and they know they are going into danger. But they still don't approach things with the same caution as an adult, which is why when one of them is seriously hurt. Or a member of their team or family is lost, it has a deep impact on all of them in some form or another.

And also in their Day to day lives, they have their own interests that help emphasize their youth. Such as Mikey's wild imagination.
Raph's temper tantrums and picking on his younger siblings, but still having a soft spot at times.
Donnie being more socially awkward than the rest of his brothers. But still able to sass back when pushed and can be quite a compitant fighter at times. For example, in season 1 'D' was practically a doormat at times, but in following seasons Don is assertive and more likely to stand up for himself.

And Leo being the big brother and trying to make himself an example of the sort of people he feels their father wants them to be.
But still having a dorky side with his obsession over Space Heros.

Actual love for the Turtles. Other versions of the TV series have had love interests for the Turtles at times. But not actual paramours for the Turtles. This series takes established characters and made them into love interests. And they don't go just one type of love type but rather go over the gamut of loving relationships.

From Innocent first love between Donnie and April

Conflicted love between Leo and Karai.

Love doomed from the start between Mikey and Renet.

Poison love Mikey and Shinigami

Star-crossed distance love between Raph and Mona.
And whether you love or hate the relationships or how they are presented, they will be something that will be explored in incarnations to come.

We have had characters that have been added to TMNT lore, such as Fishface, Dogpound, Falco, Tigerclaw, Don Vizioso, and while they might be lacking in this incarnation. Perhaps they can be adopted into another incarnation and improved upon.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-28-2017, 02:50 PM
The Super Shredder-concept returning, after over 25 years .

Cure
01-28-2017, 03:11 PM
and that's what gets tiring...not liking things is just life.

But staying focused on them isn't. And no one is saying it's an affront; it's annoying. That's what anyone has been saying.

ssjup81
01-28-2017, 03:13 PM
The Super Shredder-concept returning, after over 25 years .Yeah! And so far so good, they're keeping him away from shipping docks! :lol:

Tarris Vaal
01-28-2017, 03:16 PM
Well he is a cutting edge concept - give it time.

Vegita-San
01-28-2017, 05:15 PM
But staying focused on them isn't. And no one is saying it's an affront; it's annoying. That's what anyone has been saying.

hence, the ignore button ;o). learn it, use it, love it ;o).

and hence it be annoying that no one pays attention to the positive stuff. they always focus on the negative....


but, we'll be going around in non agreeing circles forever at this point.

i'm gonna do what i'm gonna do, you do what you're gonna do..the world moves on :)

Cure
01-28-2017, 05:29 PM
and hence it be annoying that no one pays attention to the positive stuff. they always focus on the negative....



Yeah, exactly.

Vegita-San
01-28-2017, 05:36 PM
sigh.... smh


sorry coola, didn't mean to derail your thread ;o)

just something that can't be avoided these days in the positivity bubble ;o)

Metalwolf
01-29-2017, 10:42 AM
And you are a 30 year old man who thinks it's pure spun gold? :roll:

@Vegita-San

This was me saying this at Cubed for ragging on you, it wasn't Cubed saying it at you. :P

But yeah, I don't hate the show either, it was always just frustrating when there were parts where it looked like it could have reached for excellence, but chose not to.

As someone else said, the darker stuff that gets past the censors might allow for more deeper stuff later if Nick decides to 'age up,' hopefully something they try to do soon, to offset the destruction that was the two movies.

plastroncafe
01-29-2017, 10:46 AM
Agreed.
The lost potential is the sting that hurts the most.
Because again, when this show is ON, it's amazing.

Vegita-San
01-29-2017, 10:48 AM
@Vegita-San

This was me saying this at Cubed for ragging on you, it wasn't Cubed saying it at you. :P

But yeah, I don't hate the show either, it was always just frustrating when there were parts where it looked like it could have reached for excellence, but chose not to.

As someone else said, the darker stuff that gets past the censors might allow for more deeper stuff later if Nick decides to 'age up,' hopefully something they try to do soon, to offset the destruction that was the two movies.

yep, I know :)...

appreciated :).

Yeah...and i don't really blame this on the show. I blame it on nick not really knowing what it wants it to be. it DOES feel like 5 different people running it. One wants it to be horror. One wants it to be dark. One wants it to be Mirage only. One wants it to be Classic Series. One wants it to be goofy. one wants it to break the fourth wall....i mean, it CAN be all those things at once, but being all over the place, make up your damn minds already :)

the first season is the most fun. and after that, it falls apart quickly with over the top gross mutant designs.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-29-2017, 12:30 PM
Donatello using a naginata, Michelangelo using a kusarigama

CyberCubed
01-29-2017, 12:41 PM
Donatello using a naginata, Michelangelo using a kusarigama

I really like this, it's a neat idea to have their weapons change like this that I'm surprised nobody else ever thought of before.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-29-2017, 12:43 PM
I also prefer all turtles having sharp weapons in further versions.

Metalwolf
01-29-2017, 12:53 PM
Agreed.
The lost potential is the sting that hurts the most.
Because again, when this show is ON, it's amazing.Yeah I agree. :) They have awesome good writers, they need to let them do their stuff. It's like somebody buying an super expensive luxury car just to stick in the garage and periodically gawk at. If you're not going to really use it, what's the point?

yep, I know :)...

appreciated :).

Yeah...and i don't really blame this on the show. I blame it on nick not really knowing what it wants it to be. it DOES feel like 5 different people running it. One wants it to be horror. One wants it to be dark. One wants it to be Mirage only. One wants it to be Classic Series. One wants it to be goofy. one wants it to break the fourth wall....i mean, it CAN be all those things at once, but being all over the place, make up your damn minds already :)

the first season is the most fun. and after that, it falls apart quickly with over the top gross mutant designs.No problem. :)

I think that's it main problem too. I think it didn't really have a set 'tone' that would give writers a clear idea of what to have and what to not make the characters do, so it went all over the place and tried to be all things, even if it looks jarring. One of my biggest beefs with this was the characterizations with the lesser villains, making them serious one episode with strong characters, and then the next episode makes them out to look weak and stupid as hell for 'comedy.' That was the first sign to me that the show was not doing all it could, because without consistently dangerous villains, the heroes have nothing against of which to shine.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
01-29-2017, 12:57 PM
Triceratons at least claiming to be from Dimension X. I'm not a fan of that.

Luckyday
01-30-2017, 10:07 PM
That not everything has to be exactly the same as the previous adaptation. Although, it would be great to see some storylines and have some characters remain faithfully to the original, but change and new ideas is progress when it works or at least when you have a plan. Sometimes concepts should be explored because it has huge potential for character development and plot.

That is something that I am going to take with me when going into a new version of the turtles. As long that they keep the core ideas or at least keeping one critical focus of key characters in place but just changing the rest so that gives you a reason to watch it.


Like for example, the origin of the turtles and splinter doesn't need to be the same beat per beat but it's important to know why it was written the way it was so to give a outline or theme of TMNT.

myconius
02-02-2017, 10:02 AM
it pretty much had like the best Napoleon Bonafrog ever. :)

check out this free demo.

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Tetsu Deinonychus
02-04-2017, 11:00 AM
Well, I don't think this thread is a Nick TMNT "Bashing" thread, because it's not "there's nothing good about the Nick show" as "What original ideas did the Nick show contribute to the franchise?"

And, that's a legitimate good question.

I like the Nick show. But, it really is mainly an enjoyable mixture of what came before, and doesn't really add a lot of new content.

I guess Tiger-Claw, Psychic April, Teenage April/Casey, and the Leo/Karai pairing have some potential to manifest in future versions. But, I don't see much else that will stand out as being from the Nick show in future iterations.

Vegita-San
02-04-2017, 11:46 AM
Well, I don't think this thread is a Nick TMNT "Bashing" thread, because it's not "there's nothing good about the Nick show" as "What original ideas did the Nick show contribute to the franchise?"


even people like myself who don't like it in general can see some of the good in it.

it's just some people here tend to ignore that and go all red when they see any form of criticism.


The other good thing about this series is the music. it's one of the last shows on tv that has a fun soundtrack with memorable music cues.

ToTheNines
02-04-2017, 12:16 PM
I guess Tiger-Claw, Psychic April, Teenage April/Casey, and the Leo/Karai pairing

All horrible, IMHO.

I think Miwa (as a character seperate from Karai) could be a cool character in a future version.

I'd like to see Don's naginata and Mike's kusari-gama become mainstays.

And geek Leo needs to be a thing from now on.

CyberCubed
02-04-2017, 12:20 PM
What's wrong with Tiger Claw? He's one of the best new additions to the franchise. I'd like to see him in future incarnations as well.

GoldMutant
02-04-2017, 12:34 PM
What's wrong with Tiger Claw? He's one of the best new additions to the franchise. I'd like to see him in future incarnations as well.

The big issue for Tiger Claw, at least in my opinion, is literally any other TMNT character can fill his role. There are already several other bounty hunter mutants from the toyline and previous versions (example: Scale Tail). In addition, he really lacks the intrigue of the other Foot mutants in this show.

Say what you will of the characters not being at their best anymore, but each were intriguing. Remember Xever's backstory and possible rivalry with Raphael? What about Bradford struggling to impress his master? Tiger Claw seems to lack that one thing; the Alopex feud feels too little too late (then again, the English dub airs in two weeks).

The only two elements that make Tiger Claw excellent are his design and his voice provided by Eric Bauza. TC may have had good moments and is the common henchmutant in recent episodes since season 3, but something feels amiss.

Coola Yagami
02-04-2017, 12:39 PM
Well, I don't think this thread is a Nick TMNT "Bashing" thread, because it's not "there's nothing good about the Nick show" as "What original ideas did the Nick show contribute to the franchise?"

And, that's a legitimate good question.

I like the Nick show. But, it really is mainly an enjoyable mixture of what came before, and doesn't really add a lot of new content.

I guess Tiger-Claw, Psychic April, Teenage April/Casey, and the Leo/Karai pairing have some potential to manifest in future versions. But, I don't see much else that will stand out as being from the Nick show in future iterations.

That's how i meant it too. Like i ssid the only thing new i see sticking is possibly giving the turtles different body types.

As for Tiger Claw he depends on if the next show will follow yhe mutant madness of the 80s or the mirage rule that the only mutants are the turtles, splinter and leathethead. Or he could be an alien i guess.

Maybe we'll even see Carnage and Radical in a new show.

ToTheNines
02-04-2017, 01:11 PM
What's wrong with Tiger Claw? He's one of the best new additions to the franchise. I'd like to see him in future incarnations as well.

Basically what GoldMutant said.

He has no personality and has suffered severe villain decay. Back in season 2, Splinter could barely beat him... now Casey punks him.

And that God damned jet pack is SO cheesy.

CyberCubed
02-04-2017, 01:33 PM
Tiger Claw fills the same role in this show that Hun did back in 2k3, or Tatsu in the first two movies. He's basically Shredder's second in command, the tough no-nonsense enforcer. It's just that since Nick is mutant-heavy he's a mutant tiger instead of a human like Hun or Tatsu.

GoldMutant
02-04-2017, 01:45 PM
Tiger Claw fills the same role in this show that Hun did back in 2k3, or Tatsu in the first two movies. He's basically Shredder's second in command, the tough no-nonsense enforcer. It's just that since Nick is mutant-heavy he's a mutant tiger instead of a human like Hun or Tatsu.

Except with Hun, he actually had more of a character in 2k3 outside being the second in command. (Tatsu I can't verify as I need to rewatch the 1990 movie)

Tiger Claw literally has little character in comparison. His loyalty to Shredder is the primary thing he has; sure, he's questioned Shredder a few times now (RtNY, Annihilation, and his well-being in Darkness Plight being the most obvious to me), but otherwise, what does he have that differs him?

Again, you can place literally any of the previous bounty hunter villains of TMNT and they'd be the same, except in terms of design. Tiger Claw still lacks something in comparison to 2k3 Hun. (again, Tatsu I can't verify now)

ToTheNines
02-04-2017, 02:10 PM
Tatsu dosen't have much character, but he had about 10 minutes of screen time. Maybe less.

TigerClaw has been part of the show since season 2. No excuse.

Vegita-San
02-04-2017, 03:21 PM
And it takes from to season 4 or 5, whenever apolex comes in, to get this job done?

come on. youhave a brand new stand out character people like, and sometimes it feels like youhave to be reminded he's even in the damn show.

Shredder, half the time felt like a foot note during the first three seasons.

Coola Yagami
02-04-2017, 03:26 PM
Unfortunately for Tiger Claw fans the next show will most likely give shredder a new second in command, which is good because whatever the next show will be, it'll need its brand new characters as well.

CyberCubed
02-04-2017, 04:00 PM
Unfortunately for Tiger Claw fans the next show will most likely give shredder a new second in command, which is good because whatever the next show will be, it'll need its brand new characters as well.

We don't know that. They could go back to using Hun again, or do what IDW does and use everyone.

Coola Yagami
02-05-2017, 01:02 PM
We don't know that. They could go back to using Hun again, or do what IDW does and use everyone.

Why break tradition? Every new series has added a different enforcer for the Shredder, so why would a new series cheap out and use someone that came before instead of making someone new?

CyberCubed
02-05-2017, 01:10 PM
Why break tradition? Every new series has added a different enforcer for the Shredder, so why would a new series cheap out and use someone that came before instead of making someone new?

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. What does it matter? Maybe the next series will go back to using Bebop/Rocksteady from the start again, who knows. Or just Hun.

There's no point in wondering this now. A new cartoon is years off.

Metalwolf
02-06-2017, 12:03 PM
Maybe the next series will go back to using Bebop/Rocksteady from the start again, who knows. Barf. I hope not. I don't hate B/R but it feels like they'd likely just end up devolving into 'comedy relief' and crappy FredWolf-isms (like making them idiotic man-children) if they are used as Shredder's henchmen.

If they do use them, maybe let them be still part of their own gang like they initially started off in the OT. They could be the arch-rivals of the Mutanimals or something, anything but the perennial bootlicking henchmen role they seem to be stuck in. It might even force the show to use some old characters that were only in toy form to fill in the ranks, something I know that people have been wanting to see (toy characters used and developed.)

CyberCubed
02-06-2017, 12:11 PM
At this point I would not be surprised if Bebop/Rocksteady appear in every single new TMNT incarnation. They've already been in all 3 during the Nick revival, they're in the IDW comics, Nick cartoon and the new Michael Bay movies.

If they were absent from at least one of the 3 new series I would say they could be moved on from, but they used them in all 3. They'll probably be in future series too.

myconius
02-06-2017, 12:15 PM
And geek Leo needs to be a thing from now on.

i'm TOTALLY with you on this!!!

i've had this wish for the IDW comics to have Michelangelo come across some comics that were secretly well hidden in the lair and be reading them.

and eventually have it come out that they were Leo's secret collection all along. :D

but have it be something really cool like an spoof version of 'Lone Wolf and Cub' or 'Kubikiri Asa' to avoid any copyright infringement.

superstaff
02-06-2017, 02:05 PM
At this point I would not be surprised if Bebop/Rocksteady appear in every single new TMNT incarnation. They've already been in all 3 during the Nick revival, they're in the IDW comics, Nick cartoon and the new Michael Bay movies.

If they were absent from at least one of the 3 new series I would say they could be moved on from, but they used them in all 3. They'll probably be in future series too.


Yeah, I have to agree with this...

I mean, one of the biggest 'complaints' I've seen with certain incarnations where they're absent is...people asking for them to appear. Back when TMNT (2007) came out, I remember several reviews giving it a F because they, Shredder, and Kraang were not in it.

I really wish TMNT could move on from the 80s cartoon nostalgia, and I say this as someone who grew up on it. I'd have liked Fishface and Dogpound to have just been the main henchmen in the new series without Rocksteady and Bebop, but they just had to dip in the 1987 well there... Then again, many of the fans clamor for them to appear in everything Ninja Turtles related.

ToTheNines
02-06-2017, 02:10 PM
If they were absent from at least one of the 3 new series I would say they could be moved on from, but they used them in all 3. They'll probably be in future series too.


"There's no point in wondering this now. A new cartoon is years off."

i'm TOTALLY with you on this!!!

i've had this wish for the IDW comics to have Michelangelo come across some comics that were secretly well hidden in the lair and be reading them.

and eventually have it come out that they were Leo's secret collection all along. :D

but have it be something really cool like an spoof version of 'Lone Wolf and Cub' or 'Kubikiri Asa' to avoid any copyright infringement.

That'd be cool. I don't dislike IDW Leo, but they certainly haven't done anything to make me fall in love with him yet.

myconius
02-06-2017, 02:33 PM
That'd be cool. I don't dislike IDW Leo, but they certainly haven't done anything to make me fall in love with him yet.

i know what you mean. as much as i enjoy Leo in the IDW stories he really needs to grow.
either showing more Badassness like in the Mirage comics, or show more personality like in the Nick cartoons.
or dare i hope for BOTH??? :D

ssjup81
02-06-2017, 02:36 PM
Yeah, I have to agree with this...

I mean, one of the biggest 'complaints' I've seen with certain incarnations where they're absent is...people asking for them to appear. Back when TMNT (2007) came out, I remember several reviews giving it a F because they, Shredder, and Kraang were not in it.

I really wish TMNT could move on from the 80s cartoon nostalgia, and I say this as someone who grew up on it. I'd have liked Fishface and Dogpound to have just been the main henchmen in the new series without Rocksteady and Bebop, but they just had to dip in the 1987 well there... Then again, many of the fans clamor for them to appear in everything Ninja Turtles related.Outside of movie 2 (where I did want them as opposed to Tokka and Rahzaa), I can't think of anyplace where I expected to see them again. I was one of those opposed to them being in this show...but I like the fact that they're not brainless goons and I really like how the two play off of each other. I also like the fact that we learned of them prior to the forced, literally, mutations. Better backstory.

I'm surprised by what you said about the 2007 film. For me personally, I just found the film mediocre. There wasn't anything memorable for me from it.

myconius
02-06-2017, 02:47 PM
I'd have liked Fishface and Dogpound to have just been the main henchmen in the new series without Rocksteady and Bebop

i just wish Fishface and Dogpound had better designs.
at least Bradford had gotten a nice Werewolf makeover in season 2, but Xever just stayed a fish with silly robotic legs.

Jephael
02-06-2017, 02:49 PM
i just wish Fishface and Dogpound had better designs.
at least Bradford had gotten a nice Werewolf makeover in season 2, but Xever just stayed a fish with silly robotic legs.

I've always liked their mutated designs, especially Xever's. To be honest, I wasn't too keen on Bradford's Rahzar form from the start, but over time I grew accustomed to it.

myconius
02-06-2017, 03:04 PM
I've always liked their mutated designs, especially Xever's. To be honest, I wasn't too keen on Bradford's Rahzar form from the start, but over time I grew accustomed to it.

i can definitely appreciate people liking these designs.
myself, even when i was a kid i've always preferred more horrific looking villains and monsters.
like the creature design from John Carpenter's The Thing or American Werewolf in London.
the kind of stuff that gives nightmares :lol:

CyberCubed
02-06-2017, 03:22 PM
Technically Bebop/Rocksteady have appeared in every mainline series after Mirage aside from the original movie trilogy:

Original cartoon
Archie comics
4kids during Turtles Forever
Nick
IDW
Michael Bay movies

At this point they're just like Baxter, Rat King, Leatherhead, Karai, etc....sort of the fact that you expect them to appear in every series now.

Jephael
02-06-2017, 04:43 PM
Technically Bebop/Rocksteady have appeared in every mainline series after Mirage aside from the original movie trilogy:

Original cartoon
Archie comics
4kids during Turtles Forever
Nick
IDW
Michael Bay movies

At this point they're just like Baxter, Rat King, Leatherhead, Karai, etc....sort of the fact that you expect them to appear in every series now.

Now there's something that never occurred to me before. Even though they never had their own modern day 2003 counterparts in that show's reality, they did still get to show up as depicted in the Fred Wolf series universe during the aforementioned crossover event.

FredWolfLeonardo
02-06-2017, 04:48 PM
If any of the mutant duos are to become a staple in all the turtles incarnations, it would without a doubt be B&R. Razhar and Tokka, Groundchuck and Dirtbag, Dogpound and Fishface are all cool but I think none of them would've been ever possible without Bebop and Rocksteady.

TigerClaw
02-06-2017, 05:19 PM
If any of the mutant duos are to become a staple in all the turtles incarnations, it would without a doubt be B&R. Razhar and Tokka, Groundchuck and Dirtbag, Dogpound and Fishface are all cool but I think none of them would've been ever possible without Bebop and Rocksteady.
and Wingnut and Screwloose

Technogeek29
02-06-2017, 10:07 PM
Would like them to be absent from the next installment cartoon or comic otherwise. And really would've preferred Bradford and Xever to have stayed humans if they REALLY NEEDED TO MUTATE THEM could've waited until season 2 where the series was dealing with rapid mutations and it would've demonstrated that the Turtles are too much for them as humans anymore towards the end. Anyone remember panic in the sewers? Dogpound's first appearance is still exciting to me when I see it (y'know before he became a joke)

Tiger Claw if more is done with him in the future I can see him being a main stay.Untapped would be the right way to describe a lot of stuff from the Nick show.

Metalwolf
02-07-2017, 04:43 PM
Would like them to be absent from the next installment cartoon or comic otherwise. And really would've preferred Bradford and Xever to have stayed humans if they REALLY NEEDED TO MUTATE THEM could've waited until season 2 where the series was dealing with rapid mutations and it would've demonstrated that the Turtles are too much for them as humans anymore towards the end. Anyone remember panic in the sewers? Dogpound's first appearance is still exciting to me when I see it (y'know before he became a joke)

Tiger Claw if more is done with him in the future I can see him being a main stay.Untapped would be the right way to describe a lot of stuff from the Nick show.Would really people let B&R remain absent though? The next series could have one of the most awesomest new henchmen duo and people would still whinge for B&R.

I think Dogpound and Xever became jokes when they had to make the new henchmen look powerful, which is why I personally think the next show should hold off on adding B&R. They can be fun, but once they show up, they seem to steal time and attention from any other henchmen do that show up, which can get annoying if one likes the new henchmen or if one just isn't a fan of B&R or the OT (it seem to be FW fans that clamor for them, mostly.)

Nick Turtles had A LOT of untapped potential. I think (and hope) that in the future, there will be a series or a comic run that does the same thing with this show that IDW did with the OT Turtles. Removing the crap while keeping what was good and making it better. I think it would likely keep X&B as powerhouses, there is so much more they can do with them then if they just nerfed them to make B&R look good.

CyberCubed
02-07-2017, 04:57 PM
The bulk of the IDW comic stories and characters are remakes or re-tellings of all the past major TMNT storylines in every series. They do some new things like the Pantheon story and Splinter taking over the Foot, but IDW is basically "TMNT the remake."

IDW plays it far more safe with its characters and stories than Nick did most of the time.

Andrew NDB
02-07-2017, 05:23 PM
Would really people let B&R remain absent though? The next series could have one of the most awesomest new henchmen duo and people would still whinge for B&R.

Let them whine. And scream into the abyss.

Tetsu Deinonychus
02-08-2017, 12:53 PM
I think a lot of the overabundance of mutants and FW characters in the Nick show was a response to them basically being banned in the 4Kids show. Once TMNT got sold and a new show got made it was their chance to bring back all the characters that didn't get to come back in the last "revival".

Hopefully (and I do mean that because I'm kinda sick of how "mutant-heavy" the Nick show is), now that we've seen all these characters redone, the next show can cut it back down to just the characters that need to be there. Not necessarily a total ban on non-Mirage-based characters like the 4Kids show, but using the Non-Mirage Mutants sparingly and only where one fits in well.

And, if I was somehow in charge of the next show I'd use Bebop and Rocksteady, but not as Shredder's henchmen, or even as major characters. But, just as two small-time thugs in the occasional filler episode that happen to be Mutants.

If I gave Shredder Mutant animal henchmen, they'd be Tokka and Rahzar, but I really think an army of Foot Soldiers (human or robot), Foot Elite, Foot Mystics, and the mutant Shredder Clones from "Return to NY" (and maybe a Hun or Tatsu like character, who's human) are enough.

dragonside
02-08-2017, 08:09 PM
The Nick Turtles,

Before I get into I'd like to create a little comparison

Mirage Comics = Original (Meant to be serious, but had a mix of fun and lot gritty action)

FW Cartoon = Parody of the Original (Meant to be fun, got more serious later? Red Sky anyone?)

2k3 Cartoon = Adaptation of the Original with elements of the parody (Meant to be serious but added fun... more and more Fun after Season 5, Fast foward, Back to the Sewers, and Turtles Forever)

2012 Cartoon = Adaptation of the Parody with elements of the original, and other spinoffs (Fun with brilliance and homages to some of everything)

I by no means think of the FW cartoon as a joke, but I just wanted to highlight that it was meant to be lighthearted. Everything is some sort of remix.

Tarris Vaal
02-09-2017, 06:14 AM
I'm curious as to peoples thoughts to the Nick variant on Kraang -

Namely making them a dominated hive mind 'species' born from the Utrom.

As opposed to keeping the Utrom as a race and Kraang as a distinct member of that race.

Is this idea of a... Utrom civil war (as such) something that will stick in future incarnations? Or will the future versions return to the idea of Kraang being an individual character?


Personally I quite like this idea that the Utrom are now a doomed race because of this insidious takeover by one of their own.
It mirrors a lot of other scifi Hive/collective minds (such as Star Treks Borg, or Who's Cybermen) who have traditionally focused their story horror on the assimilation of Humans. Its quite interesting to have a glimpse of that kind of fate occurring to another race entirely in the way its developed in the Nick show.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-09-2017, 06:51 AM
Leonardo watching Space Heroes

Tetsu Deinonychus
02-11-2017, 10:55 AM
I'm curious as to peoples thoughts to the Nick variant on Kraang -

Namely making them a dominated hive mind 'species' born from the Utrom.

As opposed to keeping the Utrom as a race and Kraang as a distinct member of that race.

Is this idea of a... Utrom civil war (as such) something that will stick in future incarnations? Or will the future versions return to the idea of Kraang being an individual character?


Personally I quite like this idea that the Utrom are now a doomed race because of this insidious takeover by one of their own.
It mirrors a lot of other scifi Hive/collective minds (such as Star Treks Borg, or Who's Cybermen) who have traditionally focused their story horror on the assimilation of Humans. Its quite interesting to have a glimpse of that kind of fate occurring to another race entirely in the way its developed in the Nick show.

I'd rather Krang be an individual Utrom criminal (with the other Utrom's mostly being good) than part of a collective hive-mind, or existing on his own without the Utroms, or as leader of a mostly evil race of Utroms. Just seems like the most simple and non-intrusive way to have Krang and Utroms in the same show/comic IMO.

Jephael
02-11-2017, 09:22 PM
I'd rather Krang be an individual Utrom criminal (with the other Utrom's mostly being good) than part of a collective hive-mind, or existing on his own without the Utroms, or as leader of a mostly evil race of Utroms. Just seems like the most simple and non-intrusive way to have Krang and Utroms in the same show/comic IMO.

That's basically how he's interpreted in the IDW comics.

MrTMNT2012
02-12-2017, 03:47 AM
It's such a f#cking absolute criminal shame that veterans Joshua Sternin & J.R Ventimilia were replaced with the likes of Brandon Auman and most of the new amateur writers since Season 2.

Seeing those genius minds interpret classic TMNT Arcs like City at War and the Time Travel stuff would have been a dream come true for me and every Turtles fan as fans of well-crafted narratives and sharp writing.

Instead we got dialogue written for children and zero sophistication in narrative development for those arcs, which is why people are under the illusion that the series didn't do anything new - because we had EXACTLY that with the 2003 Series; except then it was much more fresh and acceptable.

Instead we got a series that basically only managed to retain some of it's Season 1 quality because of everything Ciro Nieli, Joshua Sternin and J.R Ventimilia built up so brilliantly, to the point where even the complete amateur writers couldn't bring it down at key climactic moments.

neatoman
02-12-2017, 05:38 AM
It's such a f#cking absolute criminal shame that veterans Joshua Sternin & J.R Ventimilia were replaced with the likes of Brandon Auman and most of the new amateur writers since Season 2.

Seeing those genius minds interpret classic TMNT Arcs like City at War and the Time Travel stuff would have been a dream come true for me and every Turtles fan as fans of well-crafted narratives and sharp writing.

Instead we got dialogue written for children and zero sophistication in narrative development for those arcs, which is why people are under the illusion that the series didn't do anything new - because we had EXACTLY that with the 2003 Series; except then it was much more fresh and acceptable.

Instead we got a series that basically only managed to retain some of it's Season 1 quality because of everything Ciro Nieli, Joshua Sternin and J.R Ventimilia built up so brilliantly, to the point where even the complete amateur writers couldn't bring it down at key climactic moments.

I think it's just more that the story is poorly planned out.

April's dad after he's been rescued? Keep him out of the spotlight no matter what, mutate him or let him stay on the planet as it explodes.
Karai trying to take down the Shredder? Mutate/brainwash her so it's put on hold for two seasons.
The Kraang being defeated at the end of season one? Let's continue using them throughout season two anyway and then do a reverse ending at the conclusion of season two.
Shredder's brainwashing scheme? After he does it to Karai, he and the Foot will never try it again.
A reason for Shredder mutating? Let's say those nerve pinches Splinter did to him were crippling, who cares if it was over quickly and was not implied to be that devestating in the first place?
The Mutagen Man?... Uhm... Who?

MrTMNT2012
02-12-2017, 05:41 AM
I think it's just more that the story is poorly planned out.

April's dad after he's been rescued? Keep him out of the spotlight no matter what, mutate him or let him stay on the planet as it explodes.
Karai trying to take down the Shredder? Mutate/brainwash her so it's put on hold for two seasons.
The Kraang being defeated at the end of season one? Let's continue using them throughout season two anyway and then do a reverse ending at the conclusion of season two.
Shredder's brainwashing scheme? After he does it to Karai, he and the Foot will never try it again.
A reason for Shredder mutating? Let's say those nerve pinches Splinter did to him were crippling, who cares if it was over quickly and was not implied to be that devestating in the first place?
The Mutagen Man?... Uhm... Who?

Agreed with all of this except Shredder's brainwashing scheme.

If I saw ONE more "mind-control" episode outta this series, not even those Season 4 Spoilers would have brought me back to it...

ToTheNines
02-12-2017, 06:06 AM
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with "filler" episodes or telling a long ongoing story, but these guys sure used some forced methods to stall the overall plot of the show.

Coupled with the negligence of the scheduling department, it could be pretty frustrating.

MrTMNT2012
02-12-2017, 06:44 AM
With all that said, this was the one and only TMNT incarnation where they got the story right by it's very core. At least since Issue #1 of the Mirage Comics.

Everything from the main character dynamics in Season 1; between the four brothers, Splinter, April, Karai and Shredder to the actual character arcs and how they linked to the narrative was done right.

The way Karai/Miwa was adapted in this series as a primary source of motivation and animosity between Hamato Yoshi & Oroku Saki was something completely new to TMNT and it brilliantly managed to represent the dark thematic subtleties of the narrative that was first introduced in Issue #1 of the Mirage comics and never seen since.

Aaronardo
02-12-2017, 09:50 AM
It's such a f#cking absolute criminal shame that veterans Joshua Sternin & J.R Ventimilia were replaced with the likes of Brandon Auman and most of the new amateur writers since Season 2.

Seeing those genius minds interpret classic TMNT Arcs like City at War and the Time Travel stuff would have been a dream come true for me and every Turtles fan as fans of well-crafted narratives and sharp writing.

Instead we got dialogue written for children and zero sophistication in narrative development for those arcs, which is why people are under the illusion that the series didn't do anything new - because we had EXACTLY that with the 2003 Series; except then it was much more fresh and acceptable.

Instead we got a series that basically only managed to retain some of it's Season 1 quality because of everything Ciro Nieli, Joshua Sternin and J.R Ventimilia built up so brilliantly, to the point where even the complete amateur writers couldn't bring it down at key climactic moments.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Season 1 had some top-notch writing all the way through. It's a shame to see those writers replaced by people who don't so much as have a place writing horror B-movies. I hold on to false hope that this show will be back to that original quality one day, but after all the bullsh*t Auman and the gang have given us, I'm not holding my breath.

Vegita-San
02-12-2017, 09:57 AM
how come cube doesn't come after you guys for saying the truth? :)


I tried to rewatch this series again in the hopes that maybe I mis judged it. But, I lost interest pretty quick once i got to season 2. and i still really can't place it on why...other than it feels all over the place and a jumbled mess of a series.


I really hope that nick takes it's time to properly develop a start, middle and finish for the next one, and gets all it's eggs in one cart before pushing forward just to see a return investment on a big purchase.

but somehow i doubt it. that's not how corporations work, especially with older properties

MrTMNT2012
02-12-2017, 11:03 AM
Couldn't have said it better myself. Season 1 had some top-notch writing all the way through. It's a shame to see those writers replaced by people who don't so much as have a place writing horror B-movies. I hold on to false hope that this show will be back to that original quality one day, but after all the bullsh*t Auman and the gang have given us, I'm not holding my breath.

Watch the Season 4 finale...

Not saying it's better written (because nothing from the show is) but it does FINALLY deliver on the elements built up from Season 1's brilliant writing...

CyberCubed
02-12-2017, 12:44 PM
There's plenty of plot and filler episodes in every season, and all the main plot threads do get called back upon eventually. If by the end of Season 5 some blatantly left over plots are not resolved, then we can talk.

MrTMNT2012
02-12-2017, 01:12 PM
There's plenty of plot and filler episodes in every season, and all the main plot threads do get called back upon eventually. If by the end of Season 5 some blatantly left over plots are not resolved, then we can talk.

This is objectively true but that doesn't mean they are thematically tied nor competently linked. That's the subjective argument.

This show has failed to deliver emotionally on every single plot thread set up after Season 1, with the exception of the Mighty Mutanimals and the main Shredder Vs. Splinter narrative.

April's aeon crystal is a good example of something that had terrible set-up and terrible pay-off. Literally did absolutely nothing for her character nor did it give the characters any tangible dilemmas because the source of the disequilibrium was completely external.

Contrast this with the Shredder/Splinter feud that's been set up beautifully since Season 1 and why it has basically lasted the show this long; because it featured internal conflicts and moral ambiguities that don't pander to children. They pander to the characters and their development.

This is why I think Owari is the single best episode of the entire series because it actually DOES dive into those very dilemmas set up since Season 1 so it doesn't even matter how well Brandon Auman has tackled it (he done a fine job actually), but the very fact that he chose to stick to certain plot threads harkens back to the sharp decisive writing of Season 1.

Also...it was just an incredible climactic episode.

CyberCubed
02-12-2017, 01:16 PM
This show has failed to deliver emotionally on every single plot thread set up after Season 1, with the exception of the Mighty Mutanimals and the main Shredder Vs. Splinter narrative.

Every single aspect of Season 1 continued directly throughout the show. The Kraang's take over of Earth, the Splinter/Shredder feud, Karai and her story, April developing her powers, and so forth. Aside from that we get the usual mutant of the week eps, and those mutants aren't supposed to be developed much.

April's aeon crystal is a good example of something that had terrible set-up and terrible pay-off. Literally did absolutely nothing for her character nor did it give the characters any tangible dilemmas because the source of the disequilibrium was completely external.

April went from being out of control and not having any idea of her powers to honing them through every season, getting better telepathic powers, and learning to understand them. The aeon crystal subplot itself went on over the course of several episodes. After it ended, it ended, but it looks like it developed April's powers further.

Contrast this with the Shredder/Splinter feud that's been set up beautifully since Season 1 and why it has basically lasted the show this long; because it featured internal conflicts and moral ambiguities that don't pander to children. They pander to the characters and their development.

Which is what they've done with most plots.

I haven't seen the Season 4 finale yet so no spoilers, but the show develops characters as far as they can go without changing too much of the series.

Karai knows she's Miwa, she doesn't want to live in the sewers because she's a human girl and is old enough now (she's around 17 I guess at this point of the show) to live on her own.

Coola Yagami
02-12-2017, 02:12 PM
Karai knows she's Miwa, she doesn't want to live in the sewers because she's a human girl and is old enough now (she's around 17 I guess at this point of the show) to live on her own.

It's funny becausr its true, but at the same time i can't see karai getting a job and paying rent.

ToTheNines
02-12-2017, 02:19 PM
Karai's 18. The turtles are 17.

CyberCubed
02-12-2017, 02:36 PM
It's funny becausr its true, but at the same time i can't see karai getting a job and paying rent.

Well what I also meant is I was explaining why Karai doesn't move in with the Turtles now that she knows Splinter is her father. I've seen a lot of people asking about that.

She's a human teenager who has already more or less lived on her own and is independent. I'm sure she doesn't want to live in dirty sewers and stay there even with the knowledge of Splinter being her biological father. So it explains why Karai isn't staying with them underground.

I mean it almost seemed like some people expected Karai to move in with the Turtles or something.

Coola Yagami
02-12-2017, 03:52 PM
Well what I also meant is I was explaining why Karai doesn't move in with the Turtles now that she knows Splinter is her father. I've seen a lot of people asking about that.

She's a human teenager who has already more or less lived on her own and is independent. I'm sure she doesn't want to live in dirty sewers and stay there even with the knowledge of Splinter being her biological father. So it explains why Karai isn't staying with them underground.

I mean it almost seemed like some people expected Karai to move in with the Turtles or something.

It didn't happen because it's a kids cartoon and kids cartoons are usually afraid of changing the status quo, and everybody would have been complaining that Karai would have been a 5th Turtle.

Status quo, no matter what, it always has to be the Turtles and Splinter, with April and sometimes Casey as extras. No Splinter leading the Foot Clan. No one Turtle being taken out and not brought back for several episodes on end. No Turtle just walking out unless he comes back at the end of the same episode. No big shake ups to the main show's key dynamic. So having Karai move in, even if just for half a season or something, woulda been a big no-no.

If this was a more serious cartoon or a comic, Karai would have lived with them, at least for a while. She had no real reason to not hang with them after she found out the truth.

Much like April's father was always kidnapped or mutated to keep him out of the story, Karai was also kidnapped and mutated to prevent her from just moving in.

It reminds me of the 90's X-Men cartoons, where other characters that were X-Men in the comics, like Colossus and Angel were introduced, but were always given some excuse as to not stay and join the team, as to not shake up the established team too much.

ToTheNines
02-12-2017, 04:00 PM
Much like April's father was always kidnapped or mutated to keep him out of the story, Karai was also kidnapped and mutated to prevent her from just moving in.

And we STILL haven't heard his account as to what happened to April's mom. I've been waiting ever since the Mom-thing episode. Except I quit caring eventually.

CyberCubed
02-12-2017, 05:09 PM
It didn't happen because it's a kids cartoon and kids cartoons are usually afraid of changing the status quo, and everybody would have been complaining that Karai would have been a 5th Turtle.

Well yes, but as I said it makes sense in-universe why she doesn't move in with the Turtles too.


If this was a more serious cartoon or a comic, Karai would have lived with them, at least for a while. She had no real reason to not hang with them after she found out the truth.

No, there's no reason for them too. Remember Karai barely knows Splinter, he didn't raise her and she has no memory of him as a 1 year old or whatever she was. She acknowledges he's her father now, but that doesn't make up for 16-17 years of parent/daughter bonding lost.

Much like April's father was always kidnapped or mutated to keep him out of the story, Karai was also kidnapped and mutated to prevent her from just moving in.

Or instead you should use common sense, Kirby was mutated to give April and the Turtles a subplot. That's why they don't show Kirby much anymore, his story is done. They don't need to "keep him out of the story" there's just nothing more to be done with him.

As for April's Mom, that is one big thing I hope Season 5 covers.

Coola Yagami
02-12-2017, 06:22 PM
Well yes, but as I said it makes sense in-universe why she doesn't move in with the Turtles too.



No, there's no reason for them too. Remember Karai barely knows Splinter, he didn't raise her and she has no memory of him as a 1 year old or whatever she was. She acknowledges he's her father now, but that doesn't make up for 16-17 years of parent/daughter bonding lost.



Or instead you should use common sense, Kirby was mutated to give April and the Turtles a subplot. That's why they don't show Kirby much anymore, his story is done. They don't need to "keep him out of the story" there's just nothing more to be done with him.

As for April's Mom, that is one big thing I hope Season 5 covers.

Karai has a second chance to know her father, of course she'd hang with them for a while. It is the time for making up for 17 years especially when it wasn't splinter's fault. But you know, status quo.

Same with april. I mean... she does live with her dad righr? Or did she move out? Her dad doesn't need to be part of some big storyline, but he needs to appear or be mentioned once in a while so April doesn't look like a ****in orphan.

CyberCubed
02-12-2017, 06:32 PM
Karai has a second chance to know her father, of course she'd hang with them for a while. It is the time for making up for 17 years especially when it wasn't splinter's fault. But you know, status quo.

She's been with them a few times, and they're still hunted by Shredder. I'm sure if Shredder wasn't around she'd spend more time with them.

Same with april. I mean... she does live with her dad righr? Or did she move out? Her dad doesn't need to be part of some big storyline, but he needs to appear or be mentioned once in a while so April doesn't look like a ****in orphan.

What for though? A middle-age man isn't interesting to see and he has nothing more to offer. We know he exists and we've seen him a few times, April goes home at the end of the day.

Coola Yagami
02-12-2017, 06:41 PM
No... they made Karai sneak off and get captured by shredder right away, not even letting her spend a full night with them. Then we got brainwashing, mutating, a disagreement on how to take out shredder so she would hang with shini instead of with her family. It was just excuse after excuse so she wouldn't live with the gang at least for a few episodes.

I know if it was a comic or bolder show they would have let her live with them, like they did with alopex. Or how the Archie comics had mondo live with them for a while and later ninjara.

CyberCubed
02-12-2017, 06:43 PM
No... they made Karai sneak off and get captured by shredder right away, not even letting her spend a full night with them. Then we got brainwashing, mutating, a disagreement on how to take out shredder so she would hang with shini instead of with her family. It was just excuse after excuse so she wouldn't live with the gang at least for a few episodes.

You see this as an excuse for her not to live with them, however after this all ended, she still doesn't live with them. So had the whole mutated snake/brainwash thing never happened, she'd still be as she is after.

I know if it was a comic or bolder show they would have let her live with them, like they did with alopex. Or how the Archie comics had mondo live with them for a while and later ninjara.

Probably, but the writers are probably going for a, "after the Shredder is gone and everyone is safe" thing the characters can relax together.

ABrown
02-13-2017, 09:16 AM
Master Splinter is an alcoholic.

victory_angel
02-13-2017, 10:06 AM
Same with april. I mean... she does live with her dad righr? Or did she move out? Her dad doesn't need to be part of some big storyline, but he needs to appear or be mentioned once in a while so April doesn't look like a ****in orphan.

April is roughly 18-19 years old now and can officially make the choice of moving away from home. Now that she is a Kunoichi it is possible she is living with the turtles because it's easier to do so, and also to keep her father out of danger. I'm sure she does go visit her father from time to time, but at this point it feels as though she is living with her adoptive family.

PApagreg
02-13-2017, 10:10 AM
What for though? A middle-age man isn't interesting to see and he has nothing more to offer. We know he exists and we've seen him a few times, April goes home at the end of the day.

I don't know maybe actually use him for the teenage aspect for April's character or hear his thoughts on April becoming a vigilante. Or maybe shed some light to her backstory or mother(something the writers put on hiatus) you can basically do a lot with Kirby.

April is roughly 18-19 years old now and can officially make the choice of moving away from home. Now that she is a Kunoichi it is possible she is living with the turtles because it's easier to do so, and also to keep her father out of danger. I'm sure she does go visit her father from time to time, but at this point it feels as though she is living with her adoptive family.

Where are you getting these ages from, the best thing we got for how time passes in this show was when Casey mentioned that the whole alien invasion thing happened a year ago and even then in season 3 Mikey said he was 15 years old

ABrown
02-13-2017, 10:16 AM
Same with april. I mean... she does live with her dad righr? Or did she move out? Her dad doesn't need to be part of some big storyline, but he needs to appear or be mentioned once in a while so April doesn't look like a ****in orphan.

What for though? A middle-age man isn't interesting to see and he has nothing more to offer. We know he exists and we've seen him a few times, April goes home at the end of the day.

April is roughly 18-19 years old now and can officially make the choice of moving away from home. Now that she is a Kunoichi it is possible she is living with the turtles because it's easier to do so, and also to keep her father out of danger. I'm sure she does go visit her father from time to time, but at this point it feels as though she is living with her adoptive family.

I'm confused. I thought that her father got mutated again.

victory_angel
02-13-2017, 10:40 AM
I'm confused. I thought that her father got mutated again.

No, her Dad's still there he has a small cameo in owari

victory_angel
02-13-2017, 10:50 AM
I don't know maybe actually use him for the teenage aspect for April's character or hear his thoughts on April becoming a vigilante. Or maybe shed some light to her backstory or mother(something the writers put on hiatus) you can basically do a lot with Kirby.



Where are you getting these ages from, the best thing we got for how time passes in this show was when Casey mentioned that the whole alien invasion thing happened a year ago and even then in season 3 Mikey said he was 15 years old

There are references to time passing in the show without showing the turtles celebrating their mutation day. Such as Kraang subprime saying that it took two years to fix the technodrome in AE.

And also Splinter telling the turtles their childhood is nearly over. Which would mean the turtles are roughly 17 years old. Mikey saying he is 15 years old could be an indication that they haven't had a mutation day since their 15th one and without that milestone he doesn't register that they are older.

PApagreg
02-13-2017, 11:18 AM
There are references to time passing in the show without showing the turtles celebrating their mutation day. Such as Kraang subprime saying that it took two years to fix the technodrome in AE.

And also Splinter telling the turtles their childhood is nearly over. Which would mean the turtles are roughly 17 years old. Mikey saying he is 15 years old could be an indication that they haven't had a mutation day since their 15th one and without that milestone he doesn't register that they are older.

Whats AE also I took that as more of a metaphorical sense than a literal one.

GoldMutant
02-13-2017, 11:29 AM
Whats AE also I took that as more of a metaphorical sense than a literal one.

Annihilation: Earth, the two part finale of season 3.

Jephael
02-14-2017, 02:16 AM
Master Splinter is an alcoholic.

You sure that was booze though? Could've simply been some potent sedative type compound meant to make him sleepy.

myconius
02-14-2017, 05:22 AM
Master Splinter is an alcoholic.

You sure that was booze though? Could've simply been some potent sedative type compound meant to make him sleepy.

could have been Ketamine?

ssjup81
02-14-2017, 05:26 AM
IMO, Splinter was celebrating not having to teach them anymore physical things. After all the crap he's been through, he deserves a drink. lol Man, he and Kirby need to go out for drinks.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-19-2017, 11:57 AM
Splinter dying during a fight, as opposed to of old age. (while nothing was mentioned, it's even to assume that even in "Once Upon a Time Machine", he'd died because of old age)

Tarris Vaal
02-19-2017, 01:20 PM
Another thing to add -

Super Shredder as a dedicated plot arc and not just a last minute plot device.



I think its also fair to say that although IDW introduced Alopex, her inclusion in Nick cements her place in future iterations.

It'll be interesting to see if anyone tries to do anything with Shinigami in future versions as she has made remarkably little impact overall. She's just kind of... there...

myconius
02-19-2017, 02:33 PM
one thing i've taken from this series is a character's repeated death really cheapens the impact of it all.

sometimes this show feels like a parody of itself. :P

Coola Yagami
02-19-2017, 02:54 PM
I just thought of something else I'd like to see return. Shredder having his squad of enforcers. No more just 1 or two henchmen. That's always been stupid. Why only have 1 or two top guns when you're facing a team of four turtles. You're sending them out to fight uneven odds, and then complaining when they fail.

miru
02-19-2017, 03:11 PM
I just thought of something else I'd like to see return. Shredder having his squad of enforcers. No more just 1 or two henchmen. That's always been stupid. Why only have 1 or two top guns when you're facing a team of four turtles. You're sending them out to fight uneven odds, and then complaining when they fail.

Yeah, that's the biggest deal. And also having elements from many other incarnations at once.

CyberCubed
02-19-2017, 03:28 PM
I just thought of something else I'd like to see return. Shredder having his squad of enforcers. No more just 1 or two henchmen. That's always been stupid. Why only have 1 or two top guns when you're facing a team of four turtles. You're sending them out to fight uneven odds, and then complaining when they fail.

Shredder's henchmen this series were literally the same cast that worked for him in many previous incarnations:

Karai
Bebop/Rocksteady
Baxter
Rahzar

The only new ones were Fishface and Tiger Claw. We also had Hun for a while even if he looks like an Asian Bruce Lee clone in this show.

Jephael
02-21-2017, 05:00 PM
one thing i've taken from this series is a character's repeated death really cheapens the impact of it all.

Try reading DC comics sometime, dude...

myconius
02-21-2017, 06:50 PM
Try reading DC comics sometime, dude...

i've read plenty of DC.

lots of Marvel too.

they're both full of bunky!

ssjup81
02-21-2017, 06:52 PM
Haven’t they killed out Superman a few times in the DC comics? I remember they did that time back in the mid-90s and people got all crazy over it, iirc.one thing i've taken from this series is a character's repeated death really cheapens the impact of it all.

sometimes this show feels like a parody of itself. :PI still don’t see how it cheapens the death. It only happened once…the end of season 3 and directly after it, they were setting it up so that they could prevent his death, which they did thanks to Leo’s reacting right before Shredder could stab him. There haven’t been any other times setting him up as being dead or whatever.

Season 2’s ending didn’t count because we saw him get saved by Karai. April and the others didn’t know that, but we, the audience, did. For that, it was more like, “What’s going on with Splinter? How is he doing? I hope he’s okay.” Mikey pretty much echoed as much when he calmed down Raph, reassuring him that Splinter would be okay because of his being a ninja master and in the early eps, Mikey was still optimistic over Splinter, whereas Raph wasn’t.

The season 4 Rat King ep didn’t count since it was adapting a portion of Mirage and as far as I remember, Splinter survived, although he did have to resort to cannibalizing rats which the show didn’t let him do. I’m glad they didn’t keep that in. That would’ve freaked me out, but they probably did that because they used the human > rat origin as opposed to rat > mutated rat origin. Rats cannibalize other rats. It’s creepy. ><

So yeah, don’t see how it cheapens the death when it’s only happened once as far as Splinter goes.

myconius
02-21-2017, 07:21 PM
it's cheap because they've been taunting Splinter's death for pretty much the entire series.

as if it's been pointing to 'Spinter's gonna die'

they did the same thing at the end of Season one teasing that Leo was gonna die.

it's just cheap audience manipulation.

PApagreg
02-22-2017, 10:17 PM
it's cheap because they've been taunting Splinter's death for pretty much the entire series.

as if it's been pointing to 'Spinter's gonna die'

they did the same thing at the end of Season one teasing that Leo was gonna die.

it's just cheap audience manipulation.

Whats worse is that it could've been avoided if Splinter checked to see if Shredder was still alive.

Coola Yagami
02-22-2017, 10:38 PM
it's cheap because they've been taunting Splinter's death for pretty much the entire series.

as if it's been pointing to 'Spinter's gonna die'

they did the same thing at the end of Season one teasing that Leo was gonna die.

it's just cheap audience manipulation.

We all know Leo wasn't gonna die. Even if you never read the comics, the 90s movie and 2K3 series say hi.

Coola Yagami
02-22-2017, 10:54 PM
Haven’t they killed out Superman a few times in the DC comics? I remember they did that time back in the mid-90s and people got all crazy over it, iirc.

To be fair, back then that's the first time a major superhero died, it actually hit the papers and morning news, and it was advertised as him being dead FOR GOOD. This was before superheroes were dying left and right and coming back to life the next week. Jason Todd and Bucky Barnes were still dead at this point and we thought they'd never come back, and this was before the Gwen Stacy clones and fake Aunt May deaths and other such nonsense.

I remember back then non-comic book readers found out that there were things out there like Doomsday that were powerful enough to makeSuperman bleed.

myconius
02-23-2017, 05:23 AM
Whats worse is that it could've been avoided if Splinter checked to see if Shredder was still alive.

absolutely!!! i mean how careless can you get???

talk about lazy writing!

PApagreg
02-23-2017, 04:21 PM
absolutely!!! i mean how careless can you get???

talk about lazy writing!

Honestly so far the one thing I'm taking away from this series is that Spinter never checks for a body and never checks his damn 6

myconius
02-23-2017, 05:09 PM
Honestly so far the one thing I'm taking away from this series is that Spinter never checks for a body and never checks his damn 6

"never checks his 6" . . . . i LIKE that!!! :lol:

it's so true though!! don't rodents have a heightened sense of hearing?
you'd think even if Splinter wasn't sensible enough to make sure his treacherous blood-thirty arch nemesis wasn't sneaking up behind him, that maybe his acute rat-hearing might have tipped him off?

UNLESS . . . this Nick version of Shredder has a very soft step?

which would be yet another thing we take from this new series. :lol:

OH! also folks have the foresight of when they are about to die, and will drop hints to all those close to them about their eminent death. ;)

TMNachoT
02-23-2017, 05:49 PM
Everything

victory_angel
02-23-2017, 09:17 PM
OH! also folks have the foresight of when they are about to die, and will drop hints to all those close to them about their eminent death. ;)

But Splinter did drop hints to the Turtle's that he would die soon. There have been points where he would tell the Turtles that he would not be around forever and they need to let go of being children since Mutant Gangland. And even in this episode he does say to Leonardo "When I pass on, you will be the new head of the family."

Not that Splinter wanted to die, but he knew in the upcoming fight one of them would not survive the battle. But in this last fight it had to come down to him and the Shredder in order to bring their chapter to a close.

That is also why he Split up is family the way he did because he knew the Shredder would kill them as a means to hurt him so he limited himself to the literal "strongest" fighters of his family while his most "Skilled" Son's were not targets for the Shredder.

dragonside
02-23-2017, 09:44 PM
Bruce Wayne's parents always die....

I definitely agree with the cheapening, but yeah, I wouldn't want Splinter actually die. That would suck. Pseudo cyber space death in BTTS .. .BUT STILL CAME BACK.

Xav
02-24-2017, 12:43 AM
It's funny becausr its true, but at the same time i can't see karai getting a job and paying rent.A good question is what does Karai do for a living? I mean she doesn't have Shredder's resources anymore so how can she afford to stay in his hideout or pay her ninja mercenaries?

myconius
02-24-2017, 12:41 PM
But Splinter did drop hints to the Turtle's that he would die soon. There have been points where he would tell the Turtles that he would not be around forever and they need to let go of being children since Mutant Gangland. And even in this episode he does say to Leonardo "When I pass on, you will be the new head of the family."

Not that Splinter wanted to die, but he knew in the upcoming fight one of them would not survive the battle. But in this last fight it had to come down to him and the Shredder in order to bring their chapter to a close.

That is also why he Split up is family the way he did because he knew the Shredder would kill them as a means to hurt him so he limited himself to the literal "strongest" fighters of his family while his most "Skilled" Son's were not targets for the Shredder.


i'm sure many people enjoyed the episode. and that's great.

but it just felt too forced to me.

i still enjoy the series for what it is, but i really don't love it like i used to.

and that very disappointing to me, cuz i really did LOVE the heck out of this series at one time.

ssjup81
02-24-2017, 02:21 PM
A good question is what does Karai do for a living? I mean she doesn't have Shredder's resources anymore so how can she afford to stay in his hideout or pay her ninja mercenaries?Since she hangs with the Mutanimals apparentl, maybe she does odd jobs for Kurtzman. :P

Tetsu Deinonychus
02-25-2017, 10:09 AM
UNLESS . . . this Nick version of Shredder has a very soft step?



Well, he is still a ninja after all. Stealthy silent attacks are kinda their thing.

myconius
02-25-2017, 01:24 PM
Well, he is still a ninja after all. Stealthy silent attacks are kinda their thing.

his are softer than most, i'm sure.

this guy just screams "stealthy"

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/a/af/Shred49.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20161105182523

or maybe more - 'silent but deadly'?

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
02-26-2017, 03:53 AM
If Splinter had just been killed once and then it's all over, there would probably be complainings over the series becoming too violent. So instead, maybe that's why Nickelodeon drags out Splinter's death as much as possible by killing him, and resoring him. Now he's killed again, but Nickelodeon may think less people care then.

Cyndaquilfan123
02-27-2017, 03:24 PM
You know, The only thing I'm taking away from this thread is that why are we looking at this show in retrospect when we have a FULL SEASON left?

Coola Yagami
02-27-2017, 05:03 PM
You know, The only thing I'm taking away from this thread is that why are we looking at this show in retrospect when we have a FULL SEASON left?

Because it's the last season. Not one of many.

CyberCubed
02-27-2017, 05:33 PM
Because it's the last season. Not one of many.

Coola, it's time this thread ended and be locked. There's no purpose to it now and we both know this good and well.

ToTheNines
02-27-2017, 05:36 PM
Just don't click on it.

PApagreg
02-28-2017, 04:50 PM
Another thing I took away from this series is that its really inconsistent on the topic of revenge.

ssjup81
02-28-2017, 05:14 PM
Another thing I took away from this series is that its really inconsistent on the topic of revenge.I don’t think it was ambiguous. Think about it. Splinter never sought out Shredder because he strongly believed that revenge was pointless. Splinter seemed to give him an ample amount of chances to drop the unnecessary one-sided feud between them. If Splinter wanted to, he could’ve taken him out, but instead, he chose to incapacitate him by hitting all of his pressure points. He weakened him, and even then, it was in self-defense as he was about to stab him.

The case with the turtles finally taking out Shredder struck me as being a last resort since they were obviously planning on demutating him. It also felt like a last resort since, at this point, he was much too dangerous in his current form since he had a serious vendetta. It’s like their hands were forced and tied. Splinter came to Leonardo and let him know that Shredder was still alive. It’s like Mikey said, he could go after April’s father or Casey’s family (found it weird this was mentioned…foreshadowing maybe?), not to mention her, who was still in the hospital and wouldn’t have a chance of defending herself. Revenge was definitely more than likely sprinkled in there, but it still felt more like the Turtles were doing this to protect not only themselves, but those around them and those associated with them. It wasn’t for revenge alone…so yeah, this is why I didn’t feel that this message was ambiguous. Also, if it was solely for revenge, I don’t think they would’ve had Leo trying to get through to him regarding fate and stuff.

CyberCubed
02-28-2017, 06:11 PM
I trust Ciro will wrap up nearly all the major plotlines of the show by the end of Season 5.

Coola Yagami
02-28-2017, 08:33 PM
Coola, it's time this thread ended and be locked. There's no purpose to it now and we both know this good and well.

We still have a season to go that might open up new and interesting story ideas that might be worth repeating and updating for future incarnations.

Stop with the 'this thread must be locked' nonsense. Based on that logic all threads here should be locked after a few weeks except for possibly the introduction thread. But you might want that one locked too.

Back on topic- the reintroduction to a human Shredder that was still bad ass and very dangerous. For some reason many fans (or at least on this forum) thought that you just couldn't have a human Shredder without him being the goofball from the old series, that he couldn't pose a real threat, or that he had to be something other than human to keep that Mirage inspired decapitation scene because they would never do that with a human Shredder.

Well... now we got to see a bad ass and dangerous Shredder that is still human, without the need of making him a robot suit or a demon or whatever, and they even kept the decapitation scene. Hopefully later series will keep him as a human.

PApagreg
03-01-2017, 12:35 AM
I don’t think it was ambiguous. Think about it. Splinter never sought out Shredder because he strongly believed that revenge was pointless. Splinter seemed to give him an ample amount of chances to drop the unnecessary one-sided feud between them. If Splinter wanted to, he could’ve taken him out, but instead, he chose to incapacitate him by hitting all of his pressure points. He weakened him, and even then, it was in self-defense as he was about to stab him.


You know I never really understood why Splinter thought leaving Shredder with his empire and resources alone was a good idea, by the time season 3 hit Splinter knew Shredder allied with the Krang(and helped turned New York into a quarantine zone), tried to create a mutant army, and turned his 16 year old daughter into a tykebomb. I really don't see how Splinter would have thought Saki would turnover a new leaf and stop his vendetta.

The case with the turtles finally taking out Shredder struck me as being a last resort since they were obviously planning on demutating him. It also felt like a last resort since, at this point, he was much too dangerous in his current form since he had a serious vendetta. It’s like their hands were forced and tied. Splinter came to Leonardo and let him know that Shredder was still alive. It’s like Mikey said, he could go after April’s father or Casey’s family (found it weird this was mentioned…foreshadowing maybe?), not to mention her, who was still in the hospital and wouldn’t have a chance of defending herself. Revenge was definitely more than likely sprinkled in there, but it still felt more like the Turtles were doing this to protect not only themselves, but those around them and those associated with them. It wasn’t for revenge alone…so yeah, this is why I didn’t feel that this message was ambiguous. Also, if it was solely for revenge, I don’t think they would’ve had Leo trying to get through to him regarding fate and stuff.

If he was too dangerous in his current form then why didn't they at least try to find his hideout or steal some antimutagen weapons from the mob. Also again I have to point to the time when New York was quarantined where hundreds of people were probably either hurt or killed(a situation where Shredder was at least partly responsible). It all feels sort of last minute where they waited until the Shredder personally hurt them in a way they can't recover to actually do something, they(including Splinter) had numerous of chances to stop Shredder before he did something irredeemable but they waited until Splinter's death to actually do something.

Revenge was definitely more than likely sprinkled in there, but it still felt more like the Turtles were doing this to protect not only themselves, but those around them and those associated with them. It wasn’t for revenge alone…so yeah, this is why I didn’t feel that this message was ambiguous. Also, if it was solely for revenge, I don’t think they would’ve had Leo trying to get through to him regarding fate and stuff.

Then again Leo did try to connect him when he was about to die so it comes off as a Leo not wanting to be killed by Shredder than giving Shredder another chance hell Leo even tries to kill Shredder when Shredder took what Leo had to say about him turning into a demon and actually thinking about it for a second.

Coola Yagami
03-01-2017, 01:17 AM
It seems the gang is always content to just relax until whenever the Shredder does something instead of seeking him out to end it. The 80s cartoon did this a lot when they could have just gone to the technodrome one day and damage it for good. This show also has splinter train the turtles to be ready for next time, instead of making some kind of plan to take him down before there even is a next time.

But then again, most cartoons do that. Even though they know full well where the technodrome, snake mountain or the Legion of Doom is, the good guys never straight up go there and take the bad guys down once and for all. They'd rather just relax and wait until the bad guy strikes first with their evil plot of the week.

The IDW comics are the only ones I seen so far where they were making plans to stop shredder (and krang) once and for all, instead of sitting around waiting for the bad guys to do something first.

victory_angel
03-01-2017, 08:52 AM
Karma is a huge concept in some Asian philosophy. So even though Shredder has no redeemable qualities the Turtles don't kill Shredder because they want him to be able to die with some honor as a warrior. Such as in the first mirage comic, the turtles defeat the Shredder to die with some honor by comitting seppuku. Shredder however chooses death without honor by pulling out a grenade.

If you actually look up Japanese Buddhist views of the afterlife it is like Dantes Inferno on steroids. And depending on the evil one has done the worst off they are.

For example in shows like dragon ball z and yu yu hakusho, where the dead character meets King Enma. King Enma is the 5th judge of the underworld.

The journey through the underworld is a less then pleasant one and it lasts for seven days. And following that journey you are judged and tried by several gods and demons before you are deamed worthy of entering heaven or sentanced to jigoku