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AlZarkovski
02-21-2017, 12:18 AM
Preview here (http://www.multiversitycomics.com/previews/tmnt-universe-7/).

CyberCubed
02-21-2017, 12:40 AM
Looks like it might lead to a Metalhead out of control story, similar to the original cartoon and Nick cartoon ep about it. I wonder if it will develop its own A.I.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-21-2017, 08:16 AM
Well this isn't going where I thought it would. I was sure it would open with Harold reluctantly allowing Donnie back into his life to work together on fixing Metalhead.

Still, I'm holding out that Harold and Libby show up in this two-parter!

Sophie Campbell
02-21-2017, 08:37 AM
I LOVE Adam Gorham's stuff!! His layouts are so smooth and his Turtles look super.

Utrommaniac
02-21-2017, 08:44 AM
With the pose Raph makes as he kicks open the door, I can at last make a "SPLINTER, HOLY F***!" gag.

I'm hoping this would end with Donatello coming around to asking the Utroms to teach him some stuff. They'd probably be better mentors for him than Harold any day, and he'd at least be on good terms with Ma'riell for the time being.

DestronMirage22
02-21-2017, 02:41 PM
Finally seems like we're getting more insight to Dons feelings towards his time in Metalhead. Vengeance was good, but kinda cramped, it didn't allow us to see more of the whole Don/Metalhead thing, so I'm glad we're getting this mini arc to add to that.

MikeandRaph87
02-21-2017, 04:35 PM
The artwork made me think 90s films especially the panel of Donatello.

myconius
02-22-2017, 06:09 AM
that art by Adam Gorham!!!!! @u@


i just wast to eat it RIGHT up!!!!!! :D

myconius
02-22-2017, 06:36 AM
this was one of the best issues of TMNT:U yet!!!

the idea that part of Donatello's memories and soul were still trapped within the machine, or was it just data?
it's a real mind bender!

i think the subjects of phantom pains and PTSD were some of the most powerful!

seeing Robo-Don keep getting stuck in reliving that horrific moment . . .

this comic really struck a nerve! . . . but in a good way.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-22-2017, 08:44 AM
Love the art. And poor Metalhead with his PTSD...

The slow pace and introspective writing of this issue, its philosophical POV... I loved it. I really, REALLY loved it. Can't wait for next month.

...

But this backup is killing me. Blah blah blah blah blah.

Technogeek29
02-22-2017, 08:51 AM
Do androids dream of Electric sheep? Donatello addition:D

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-22-2017, 09:14 AM
You know, I really don't have any good idea how this two-part arc might end. I love this.

Unpredictability is good.

MikeandRaph87
02-22-2017, 09:27 AM
Love the art. And poor Metalhead with his PTSD...

The slow pace and introspective writing of this issue, its philosophical POV... I loved it. I really, REALLY loved it. Can't wait for next month.

...

But this backup is killing me. Blah blah blah blah blah.

Don't read it. Its rare that backups interest me and just as rare I read it.

PDSD on a robot? Interesting especially since it was not traditional war to trigger it.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-22-2017, 09:31 AM
Don't read it. Its rare that backups interest me and just as rare I read it.

PDSD on a robot? Interesting especially since it was not traditional war to trigger it.

PTSD can be caused by any number of traumatic experiences, not just military conflict.

Utrommaniac
02-22-2017, 09:43 AM
Like, say...blowing up.

neatoman
02-22-2017, 12:11 PM
Poor rhino, will Metal-Don ever get over his anti-rhinotism?

ChosenOne
02-22-2017, 12:21 PM
Gotta say, I was underwhelmed with the issue and not too interested in this particular arc... Right up until Metal-Don killed the rhino (and only scorched Donnie's plastron? huh?) with the laser. Hot damn, talk about a one-two punch of gnarly, right in the same month that #67 came out! :o

MikeandRaph87
02-22-2017, 01:42 PM
PTSD can be caused by any number of traumatic experiences, not just military conflict.

That is what I was saying. Its just associated with war experiences not explored beyond that.

CyberCubed
02-22-2017, 01:44 PM
I don't particularly find the Angel/Alopex dynamic all that interesting, but it will be nice to see them go on another solo mission together.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-22-2017, 01:46 PM
I don't particularly find the Angel/Alopex dynamic all that interesting, but it will be nice to see them go on another solo mission together.

Wrong thread. But I also agree with you. :tsmile:

CyberCubed
02-22-2017, 01:48 PM
Oops, I thought this was the other thread.

myconius
02-22-2017, 01:54 PM
...

But this backup is killing me. Blah blah blah blah blah.


not me! i'm absolutely loving this back up!

anything to do with Samurai or Ninja i'm ALL over it like a bum on a baloney sandwich!! :D


plus it's really making feel even more for Jennika to see what a troubled past she's lived.
it's no wonder she fell in with the Foot Clan while they were under Shredder's rule.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-22-2017, 02:13 PM
not me! i'm absolutely loving this back up!

anything to do with Samurai or Ninja i'm ALL over it like a bum on a baloney sandwich!! :D


plus it's really making feel even more for Jennika to see what a troubled past she's lived.
it's no wonder she fell in with the Foot Clan while they were under Shredder's rule.

Not me, man. Nothing but blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

If you want me to care about Jennika, THIS is not the way to do it.

CyberCubed
02-22-2017, 02:19 PM
Now that I read this it's really enjoyable, especially for sci-fi fans who are used to robots thinking they can be like sentient creatures like Data in Star Trek, etc. I really enjoyed the slow pace at the beginning too.

More and more the whole Don/Metalhead story really reminds me of cyborg Don from the Image series. He literally went through the same thing there with the A.I. CPU trying to take over his body at the end and erase the "real" Don.

I'm glad some of the Image series legacy lives on.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-22-2017, 02:49 PM
Now that I read this it's really enjoyable, especially for sci-fi fans who are used to robots thinking they can be like sentient creatures like Data in Star Trek, etc. I really enjoyed the slow pace at the beginning too.

More and more the whole Don/Metalhead story really reminds me of cyborg Don from the Image series. He literally went through the same thing there with the A.I. CPU trying to take over his body at the end and erase the "real" Don.

I'm glad some of the Image series legacy lives on.

Same here, man. Image TMNT is my jam.

CyberCubed
02-22-2017, 02:57 PM
Even though it's probably a coincidence, both cyborg Don and Splinter taking over the Foot Clan reminds me of how Raph became Shredder and led the Foot for a while in the Image series too.

DestronMirage22
02-22-2017, 02:59 PM
Good issue. I was kinda hoping they wouldn't go with the whole remants-of-mind-in robot route, as I don't find it as interesting as when a robot has it's own personality, but they managed to pull it off pretty well. Shame this arc is so short, I'd like to see this extended just a little more.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who hasn't been enjoying the Jenny back-up. It's a shame, because that's a character that really needs to be expanded upon if she's gonna get much more time in the spotlight. But the way her backstory has been presented is kinda boring, relying almost entirely on just images to tell her tale. The whole Ninja/Samurai thing is interesting, but after a while it gets boring. :ohwell:

CyberCubed
02-22-2017, 03:02 PM
Jenny has been the least character I've been interested in since issue #51. He role could have easily been handled by Karai instead of creating a new character for it.

DestronMirage22
02-22-2017, 03:04 PM
I'm loving the whole Image vibe as well. Glad their taking some basic things from Image and adding their own spin to it. Would love to see Komodo make an appearance, as well as Pimiko and Lady Shredder (if only). Though Splinter tuning into a bat is likely not to happen..... :lol:

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-22-2017, 03:12 PM
Good issue. I was kinda hoping they wouldn't go with the whole remants-of-mind-in robot route, as I don't find it as interesting as when a robot has it's own personality, but they managed to pull it off pretty well. Shame this arc is so short, I'd like to see this extended just a little more.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who hasn't been enjoying the Jenny back-up. It's a shame, because that's a character that really needs to be expanded upon if she's gonna get much more time in the spotlight. But the way her backstory has been presented is kinda boring, relying almost entirely on just images to tell her tale. The whole Ninja/Samurai thing is interesting, but after a while it gets boring. :ohwell:

Jenny has been the least character I've been interested in since issue #51. He role could have easily been handled by Karai instead of creating a new character for it.

I'm loving the whole Image vibe as well. Glad their taking some basic things from Image and adding their own spin to it. Would love to see Komodo make an appearance, as well as Pimiko and Lady Shredder (if only). Though Splinter tuning into a bat is likely not to happen..... :lol:

Y'know what was a GOOD ninja/samurai tale? "Secret History of the Foot Clan". Or "Turtles in Time #2." Because stuff HAPPENED in those stories; it wasn't just "some guy prints out his essay on the history of ninjitsu and then accidentally copies and pastes it into a Ninja Turtles comic."

I'm gonna be painfully honest; I haven't had apathy like this towards a TMNT comic since "Casey & April." Stuff needs to HAPPEN.

Oh, and I'd have loved to see Pimiko reimaged to fill Jennika's slot. Oh well.

CyberCubed
02-22-2017, 03:16 PM
I did think Jennika would get a bit more interesting after she killed Dun, but nah, after that she's still just the same as she was.

Allio
02-22-2017, 06:19 PM
perhaps a little bit too much Ghost in the Shell for me recently, but this issue really hit me good. Sometimes it's just great to be reminded what makes TMNT just a great series in general.

ToTheNines
02-23-2017, 05:06 AM
Oh my god, I loved this issue! Gorham's art was like this awesome blend of the 1990 movie and Cory Smith. And you can tell Ferrier knows the IDW universe very well.

I was enjoying Don and Metal-Don interacting so much and dreading his inevitable spazzing out. Can't wait to read part 2.

Also loving how much of Universe that Pattison is coloring. Not that I don't enjoy a variety of talent, but she makes these issues feel right at home.

funatic
02-23-2017, 10:04 PM
If I were to try to get Peter Laird to start reading the IDW series, this is the first issue I'd show him: introspective, heavy on the sci-fi, and highlighting his favorite turtle... Though as soon as he saw Rocksteady name-dropped I think he'd call it quits :tlol:

oldmanwinters
02-23-2017, 10:21 PM
This issue struck me as an intriguing (yet eerie) callback to issue 20 (http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2013/03/tmnt-idw-20.html), where Fugitoid and Donatello had a brainiac discussion about the science of teleportation.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/Magazine%20Scans/TMNT20-TeleporterCopyPasteCrop_zpszkijbxmz.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/slimer2erasmus/media/Magazine%20Scans/TMNT20-TeleporterCopyPasteCrop_zpszkijbxmz.jpg.html)
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a56/slimer2erasmus/Magazine%20Scans/TMNT20-TeleporterCopyPaste2_zpsy0xa5ric.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/slimer2erasmus/media/Magazine%20Scans/TMNT20-TeleporterCopyPaste2_zpsy0xa5ric.jpg.html)

The theory is that every time a consciousness is transferred from one place to another, the "original" entity is destroyed and the only the new "copy" remains. The essence of one's "soul," however, is a far more complicated matter. It seems the science of soul is finally catching up with poor Donatello, who has been copy/pasted one too many times! Curiouser and curiouser...

funatic
02-23-2017, 10:53 PM
I remember that moment as a defining one for me in the IDW series, kicking up their make-you-think factor to prove they weren't just another ninja-action cash cow reboot. So awesome to see the threads of Don & Fugitoid's discussion come to the foreground nearly 4 years later!

Ninjinister
02-24-2017, 12:14 AM
So much of this reminded me of Tales #54, "Mere Appendix", where Honeycutt has a crisis of existence, as such.

CyberCubed
02-24-2017, 01:46 AM
I wonder where Metalhead will go from here. Assuming he's not destroyed or shut-down in the next issue, will he just go off on his own and become a recurring character? Definitely don't see him staying at the lair now.

neatoman
02-24-2017, 03:07 AM
I wonder where Metalhead will go from here. Assuming he's not destroyed or shut-down in the next issue, will he just go off on his own and become a recurring character? Definitely don't see him staying at the lair now.

He gets a wig.
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/a/a7/Metalhead_btts.png/revision/latest?cb=20080929144549

ProphetofGanja
02-24-2017, 05:40 AM
I wonder where Metalhead will go from here. Assuming he's not destroyed or shut-down in the next issue, will he just go off on his own and become a recurring character? Definitely don't see him staying at the lair now.

I can see him achieving wild card status, just out there own his own, sometimes a help and sometimes a hindrance

MikeandRaph87
02-24-2017, 06:04 AM
I thought I was the only one who thought about The Prestige explanation of teleportation used in #20.

So what exactly is the state of Metalhead? He is sentient but was not before Metalhead was used as a shell for Donatello. That is because Donatello was in him.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
02-24-2017, 08:02 AM
I wonder where Metalhead will go from here. Assuming he's not destroyed or shut-down in the next issue, will he just go off on his own and become a recurring character? Definitely don't see him staying at the lair now.

That's what I'm wondering. Is Donnie really going to kill himself? Unplug a copy of his own soul?

Deep stuff.

myconius
02-24-2017, 01:15 PM
the more i read and re-read this issue Metalhead feels less of a soul living in a machine, but more of an imprint of memories/data.

if he truly had a soul then he'd have compassion for other living creatures, which clearly he does not.

he's something right out of a sci-fi/horror monster movie.

Redeemer
02-24-2017, 01:28 PM
the more i read and re-read this issue Metalhead feels less of a soul living in a machine, but more of an imprint of memories/data.

if he truly had a soul then he'd have compassion for other living creatures, which clearly he does not.

he's something right out of a sci-fi/horror monster movie.

so half the guys in prisons don't have souls lol. Interesting idea but i don't agree entirely.

I agree with your conclusion, but not the reasoning.

oldmanwinters
02-24-2017, 01:29 PM
the more i read and re-read this issue Metalhead feels less of a soul living in a machine, but more of an imprint of memories/data.

if he truly had a soul then he'd have compassion for other living creatures, which clearly he does not.

he's something right out of a sci-fi/horror monster movie.

I started to get that vibe at the end of the issue. When his eyes glowed red and he decided the logical choice was to eliminate the competition, I had flashbacks to the "His Silicon Soul" episode (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/hissiliconsoul/) of Batman: The Animated Series, which also limited the A.I. to imprinted memories... mostly. As for Metal-Don, it's still hard for me to take a settled opinion. He really did seem excited at the sight of pizza.

myconius
02-24-2017, 01:34 PM
so half the guys in prisons don't have souls lol. Interesting idea but i don't agree entirely.

I agree with your conclusion, but not the reasoning.

this is supposed to be an imprint of Donatello's soul in the machine.

when Donnie first woke from his near death experience, he didn't go on a killing spree.

Metalhead only thinks he's Donnie but seems more just an advanced artificial intelligence with imprinted memories.


as for half the people in prison . . . .
they don't have the excuse of being a sentient flow of consciousness waking up inside a robotic body. OR maybe they DO???? :lol:

myconius
02-24-2017, 01:37 PM
I started to get that vibe at the end of the issue. When his eyes glowed red and he decided the logical choice was to eliminate the competition, I had flashbacks to the "His Silicon Soul" episode (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/hissiliconsoul/) of Batman: The Animated Series, which also limited the A.I. to imprinted memories... mostly. As for Metal-Don, it's still hard for me to take a settled opinion. He really did seem excited at the sight of pizza.

very excellent point!

i'll have to dig out the Btas DVD and re-watch that episode.

spookycookies
02-24-2017, 06:49 PM
I think it was telling that Metal-Don shares exact personality traits as Donatello like favorite pizza toppings etc, but cannot recall specific past events. I think those gaps in memory are going to be a big part of making these 2 characters more unique down the road. I gotta say this was a good month for deep and interesting storytelling in TMNT...

DrSpengler
02-26-2017, 09:41 AM
Here's my full summary and review of TMNT Universe #7 at TMNT Entity. (http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2017/02/tmnt-universe-7.html)

This was a very talky, reference-heavy issue (certainly saving all the action for Part 2), but it helped to sell Metalhead's evolution as a character. Dug all the references to events that helped shape Donnie's personal philosophies, from his talk with Fugitoid about the soul to that time he met himself in the future. It's certainly a well-researched story.

myconius
02-26-2017, 10:05 AM
Here's my full summary and review of TMNT Universe #7 at TMNT Entity. (http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2017/02/tmnt-universe-7.html)

This was a very talky, reference-heavy issue (certainly saving all the action for Part 2), but it helped to sell Metalhead's evolution as a character. Dug all the references to events that helped shape Donnie's personal philosophies, from his talk with Fugitoid about the soul to that time he met himself in the future. It's certainly a well-researched story.

i really felt the same way that Adam Gorham's art style had a similarity to the look of the turtles in the first two live-action TMNT films.

it was very reminiscent to the Henson model's, but he added his own personal touches which was nice.

oldmanwinters
02-26-2017, 11:41 AM
If I were to try to get Peter Laird to start reading the IDW series, this is the first issue I'd show him: introspective, heavy on the sci-fi, and highlighting his favorite turtle... Though as soon as he saw Rocksteady name-dropped I think he'd call it quits :tlol:

He gets a wig.
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/a/a7/Metalhead_btts.png/revision/latest?cb=20080929144549

A bit off subject, but it is curious that Laird never warmed to the Playmates/Fred Wolf version of Metalhead. While I understand that the superhero Metalhead of Mirage comics likely preceded the development of the more familiar character, a robo-turtle seems like the concept that Peter Laird would find delightful. Laird has long had an affinity for drawing robots and mechanical contraptions with all the subtle details. His favorite character is probably Fugitoid. And Donatello, who seems to get stuck with fixing M.H. so often, is probably his favorite Turtle. Despite Laird's well-documented distaste of almost all things Fred Wolf, I would think Metalhead would have been the exception.

spookycookies
02-26-2017, 07:50 PM
A bit off subject, but it is curious that Laird never warmed to the Playmates/Fred Wolf version of Metalhead. While I understand that the superhero Metalhead of Mirage comics likely preceded the development of the more familiar character, a robo-turtle seems like the concept that Peter Laird would find delightful. Laird has long had an affinity for drawing robots and mechanical contraptions with all the subtle details. His favorite character is probably Fugitoid. And Donatello, who seems to get stuck with fixing M.H. so often, is probably his favorite Turtle. Despite Laird's well-documented distaste of almost all things Fred Wolf, I would think Metalhead would have been the exception.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Laird the one who didn't like there being too many other turtle characters since they would make the main 4 less unique? I'm not sure where I heard that but it makes sense to have come from him as far as I know.

MikeandRaph87
02-26-2017, 07:56 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Laird the one who didn't like there being too many other turtle characters since they would make the main 4 less unique? I'm not sure where I heard that but it makes sense to have come from him as far as I know.

I don't know about that,but that is his stance as to why he rather not go beyond Leatherhead as the only other mutant aside from the four turtles and Splinter. Aside from the six he likes monstrous mutants not Grounchuck,Dirtbag, Razhar, Tokaa, The Punk Frogs, etc. as the same humanoid animal with human level intellect if you get what i am trying to say.

oldmanwinters
02-26-2017, 09:29 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Laird the one who didn't like there being too many other turtle characters since they would make the main 4 less unique? I'm not sure where I heard that but it makes sense to have come from him as far as I know.

I don't know about that,but that is his stance as to why he rather not go beyond Leatherhead as the only other mutant aside from the four turtles and Splinter. Aside from the six he likes monstrous mutants not Grounchuck,Dirtbag, Razhar, Tokaa, The Punk Frogs, etc. as the same humanoid animal with human level intellect if you get what i am trying to say.

Yeah, I remember Laird's comment being in reference to a perceived overabundance of mutants in the Fred Wolf toon. He thought all the mutants made the TMNT less unique. Maybe it was recorded on a 4Kids dvd as a special feature interview?

CyberCubed
02-26-2017, 09:47 PM
You don't have to look for an old interview for that, he also said it many times on the letters pages for Volume 4 and on his blog over the last couple of years.

It's also why PL flat out told the 4kids writers not to use any of the old mutants in the 2k3 series. Given how much control he had over that series as you can see by him reworking the scripts and telling them what to do, it would have never flown.

The Evil Turtlebot is practically the 4kids version of Metalhead anyway, so I don't see what the difference is.

oldmanwinters
02-26-2017, 09:52 PM
You don't have to look for an old interview for that, he also said it many times on the letters pages for Volume 4 and on his blog over the last couple of years.

I'm glad you remember it. Got a specific citation to put my obsessive-compulsive-inclined brain at ease?

MikeandRaph87
02-26-2017, 10:12 PM
You don't have to look for an old interview for that, he also said it many times on the letters pages for Volume 4 and on his blog over the last couple of years.

It's also why PL flat out told the 4kids writers not to use any of the old mutants in the 2k3 series. Given how much control he had over that series as you can see by him reworking the scripts and telling them what to do, it would have never flown.

The Evil Turtlebot is practically the 4kids version of Metalhead anyway, so I don't see what the difference is.

The week after What a Croc aired I emailed Dan Berger to ask if that was Metalhead, the robot turtle. Dan thought so himself and went to Peter about it. He replied back it was a coincidence and had no intention of being Metalhead only a somewhat similar character.

oldmanwinters
02-26-2017, 10:18 PM
The week after What a Croc aired I emailed Dan Berger to ask if that was Metalhead, the robot turtle. Dan thought so himself and went to Peter about it. He replied back it was a coincidence and had no intention of being Metalhead only a somewhat similar character.

Heh. That sounds like classic Laird to me! :tlol:

DrSpengler
02-27-2017, 08:09 AM
I think "Evil Robot Turtle" is a generic enough idea that the three incarnations created thus far (Mecha Turtle, Metalhead, Turtlebot/Turtlenator) could have been dreamed up independently.

oldmanwinters
02-27-2017, 08:42 AM
I think "Evil Robot Turtle" is a generic enough idea that the three incarnations created thus far (Mecha Turtle, Metalhead, Turtlebot/Turtlenator) could have been dreamed up independently.

I dunno, that color scheme and overall design aesthetic seems mighty familiar...
http://www.retrorobotreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/metalhead_02-1024x682.jpg
http://www.retrorobotreview.com/robot-of-the-month-august-metalhead/

That original Metalhead action figure was great, especially with the translucent head that gave him the appearance of glowing red eyes!

MikeandRaph87
02-27-2017, 12:34 PM
I dunno, that color scheme and overall design aesthetic seems mighty familiar...
http://www.retrorobotreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/metalhead_02-1024x682.jpg
http://www.retrorobotreview.com/robot-of-the-month-august-metalhead/

That original Metalhead action figure was great, especially with the translucent head that gave him the appearance of glowing red eyes!

I am convinced the character designer had Metalhead in mind when tasked with creating a robot turtle. he may have been a template to design Turtlebot as a mental image.

If you care Winters, I still have the original email from Dan Berger which was 13 years ago this Thursday. I can copy and paste it in an email. I don't want to derail this thread any further than I am guilty of already.

myconius
03-03-2017, 02:19 PM
one thing i'd like to throw out there-

there was a moment that i really wanted to kick Michelangelo in the shell!!!

he was so quick to give a naive thumbs-up to 'METAL-DON',
but didn't even consider the risk that both Leo and Raph were weary of, and LOOK how the issue ended!!!

Michelangelo was also quite the Jackass to Leonardo!
throwing things in Leo's face that were really out of his own control! (Kitsune's mind control)

i dunno :roll: he was just really acting like a little brat!