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ToTheNines
03-14-2017, 04:48 PM
Now this is highly hypothetical, but give it a try.

How much easier would you have been on Bayturtles if:

1. They were a photorealistic version of what you expect the turtles to look like.

2. They weren't covered in random trinkets and flair.

3. They weren't 9 feet tall and UGLY AS FU*K.

They still would have sucked, but I think I would have found the movie a bit more palatable. And the general movie going audience might have agreed.

Thoughts?

TigerClaw
03-14-2017, 04:52 PM
They would cut them some slack if they had better Writers, Writers who understand TMNT better, The problem is regardless of who writes the movies, Michael Bay calls the shots, He was the one that changed the tone of the 1st movie, after complaining that it was too serious, and then wanting more humor in it.

IndigoErth
03-14-2017, 05:59 PM
None of that. I could do with them being not quite as large, maybe no bigger than the average man, but that wouldn't really earn any slack cutting.

The Turtles themselves don't really bother me much anymore. The clothing/gear never bothered me, even if the look of some were a little busy at times. I can tolerate the overdone height and bulk in this one version. (And my fave turned out to be kind of adorable at times - at least in my eyes and esp in OotS - so I can deal.)

If they want slack cutting, it's going to have to be focused on the writing and use of characters (or overuse of non-humans - wtf I meant humans - in some cases). The first film sucks for the PD Turtles, while the story was okay in some aspects. OotS is by far better on the attention and focus they gave to the Turtles, but then the story sucked. Why can't these people do both?



edit: Actually, in terms of their clothing and whatnot, it bugs me most that they were given things that were never used. Such as each of them having a radio on their shoulder in OotS, but never touched it. That it was pointless was annoying.

That could have been played for laughs if, say, the cops heard them on the radios, before ever crossing paths with them, and yelled at them to get off that frequency. lol Only to find out later it was the Turtles they heard. So many lost opportunities.

Leo's throwing knives and those little axe(?) things on Raph's back (that he'd never reach in a million years) is another example. (And of course 95% of the stuff Donnie carries around.) If you are going to give them these tools - USE THEM. Don't just put it there "because it looks cool."

plastroncafe
03-14-2017, 06:00 PM
I'd have preferred less clutter in the character design, but honestly...they could look amazing and it still wouldn't change the fact that the story was not so good.

ToTheNines
03-14-2017, 06:37 PM
I'd have preferred less clutter in the character design, but honestly...they could look amazing and it still wouldn't change the fact that the story was not so good.

Even with AC Farley styled turtles?

TheSkeletonMan939
03-14-2017, 06:45 PM
Little to none. The turtle suits from the 1990 movie aren't the best things in the world but that doesn't stop people from enjoying the flick. Bay thinks the opposite is true: people will ignore the bad script if your VFX look neat enough. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xgOe7Jm1V4) To some extent he's right. But that philosophy didn't quite pay off for TMNT 2.

ProphetofGanja
03-14-2017, 06:47 PM
Honestly, I could ignore the god-awful character design if the story had been something that made sense. Although of course I would have preferred a movie with a decent story AND quality character design. Is that too much to ask for??

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-14-2017, 06:49 PM
I'd have preferred less clutter in the character design, but honestly...they could look amazing and it still wouldn't change the fact that the story was not so good.

This.

I can get over visuals, but I can't forgive bad writing.

plastroncafe
03-14-2017, 08:54 PM
Even with AC Farley styled turtles?

Oh it still would have been a wet hot mess of a movie with Farley style turtles, but I'd have bought a dvd for like...icons. Or fanvids or something.

CyberCubed
03-14-2017, 09:01 PM
I just hate those goddamn noses and nostrils. They're so goddamn disgusting. They look like Shrek's nose or noses of the Hulk or something.

I remember being mentally traumatized back in 2014 when the Bayturtle designs were revealed for the first time. I was so morally offended by the noses that I sat there ranting what a disgrace it was on a daily basis for like 2 years.

I had never seen something so disturbing and morally wrong before in my entire life as Turtle noses.

IndigoErth
03-14-2017, 10:13 PM
Well if that's the worst you ever get from life, then someday I hope you write your memoir and include a long chapter on the terrible impact mutant Turtle noses had on your life. lol


Still not fond myself of the narrower design for Mikey and esp Raph, but I do like the wider design of Leo and Donnie (even if it took me a while to warm up to it).

MikeandRaph87
03-14-2017, 10:26 PM
Would it have make it any better in the design of the 1990 film was used and only updated to fit the current technology?

Wildcat
03-14-2017, 10:40 PM
The designs aren't my favorite but they don't bother me as as much as others. If anything that's the thing I give the most slack because they're mutant turtles. What they look like is all subjective.

The storyline was just a generic take over the city plot. Which is fine but it just was not interesting. Some action scenes and silly elements like learning martial arts from a book connected everything and that's it.

I liked that the turtles were Aprils pets before when they were in the lab. That's the only thing I thought was kinda cool.

I have not seen part 2 yet.

DestronMirage22
03-14-2017, 11:03 PM
I still wouldn't cut them any slack. They wouldn't deserve it. Nothing could've saved those idiotic messes of movies, not even good designs.

sdp
03-14-2017, 11:20 PM
The Hulk turtles I actually grew to like, they kind of work in this universe. I can't say I love them but I didn't hate them in the movie.

Now some of the story of April being involved with the Turtles and Shredder coming out of nowhere etc are the biggest problems of the movie.

Jephael
03-14-2017, 11:30 PM
I agree with everyone thus far, though the biggest mistake they made was casting Megan Fox as April. She just did not fit the part in both films. In the first one she tried too hard, and in the second one she barely phoned it in. Talk about being on opposite sides of the spectrum.

IndigoErth
03-14-2017, 11:46 PM
I liked that the turtles were Aprils pets before when they were in the lab. That's the only thing I thought was kinda cool.
That always bugged me. I wish they'd made it clear that as a child she just thought of them like pets rather than actually being.

I mean if they really were, how terrible does someone have to be to experiment on their child's pets?? :teek:

I can hear it now: "I'm sorry little April, I told you that if you didn't take good care of them I'd be taking them away. Now they are going to the lab to be abused for experimentation." (You could almost rewrite this as April caused the fire to get back at her father over it... lol)


Now some of the story of April being involved with the Turtles and Shredder coming out of nowhere etc are the biggest problems of the movie.
Although I've always kind of loved the scene where you can sort of see the gears turning in Leo's head and he kneels down like, "Wait, Dad... You always said we were rescued by a great guardian spirit. A hogosha." (Or something like that.) Splinter tells him that this IS the hogosha... And you can kind of see, or at least imagine, Leo getting back up and looking at Megan Fox April like "Oh wtf..." :tlol: (Before being respectful and bowing to her.) That just HAD to be a huge disappointment after all those years of probably thinking it was far bigger and special than that. (Would be a good spot for fourth wall breaking... even the characters know this plot is ridiculous.)

Wildcat
03-15-2017, 12:04 AM
That always bugged me. I wish they'd made it clear that as a child she just thought of them like pets rather than actually being.

I mean if they really were, how terrible does someone have to be to experiment on their child's pets?? :teek:

I can hear it now: "I'm sorry little April, I told you that if you didn't take good care of them I'd be taking them away. Now they are going to the lab to be abused for experimentation." (You could almost rewrite this as April caused the fire to get back at her father over it... lol)Were they actually her pets? I don't remember now.

My issue with this was she cared enough to rescue them but abandoned them in the sewer. Could have taken them to a lake or pond or something. Even the zoo maybe.

Candy Kappa
03-15-2017, 02:03 AM
Nope, the story is still trash.

I'd at best probably rewatch a few scenes on youtube now and then if the Turtles at least looked like the Turtles.

neatoman
03-15-2017, 06:07 AM
I guess I would be fine with the designs but generally say the movies sucked? Terrible design work is the least of the problems.

ProactiveMan
03-15-2017, 08:33 AM
I kind'a like the movies on a certain level, but yes, they both have really bad stories. I don't think the writing is completely terrible either. There are some nice dialogue scenes in both, but the structure and overall plot sucks. I would have been a lot happier if they had have nailed the scripts down before shooting, and in the case of OOTS, spent more than an afternoon devising the plot.

RaphaelsIsolation
03-15-2017, 10:31 AM
Now this is highly hypothetical, but give it a try.

How much easier would you have been on Bayturtles if:

1. They were a photorealistic version of what you expect the turtles to look like.

2. They weren't covered in random trinkets and flair.

3. They weren't 9 feet tall and UGLY AS FU*K.

They still would have sucked, but I think I would have found the movie a bit more palatable. And the general movie going audience might have agreed.

Thoughts?

Yeah I mean I didn't like the look very much. It is what it is, and it isn't horrible, I mean the large bulky "almost" Zulli look is ok.

I just wanted TMNT 1, 2, 3 look honestly. They tried making it different for the sake of it being different.

It would of helped a good amount. The look of them just kinda set the tone as overbloated... and lacking of quality.

Andrew NDB
03-15-2017, 11:20 AM
Nope.


***DR***
Don't bypass the swear filter.

Powder
03-15-2017, 12:21 PM
Despite the look being more or less my biggest concern leading up to the first film's release, it turned out to somehow be one of the least offensive things about these dung-heaps.

As I've said before, we're lucky they were big & ugly, because it would've been absolutely heartbreaking to have great looking turtles in horrible movies. With these, what you see is what you get- all flare, no care. You can't have any good expectations based on the aesthetics. With "proper" turtles you might go into it expecting something good, only to get kicked in the willy.

Andrew NDB
03-15-2017, 12:30 PM
As I've said before, we're lucky they were big & ugly, because it would've been absolutely heartbreaking to have great looking turtles in horrible movies.

True. And when they failed, TPTB would assume that (faithful) great looking Turtles were part of the reason of the failure.

As is, we have a great big tub of pure Turtle sh*t -- basically the sum of everything they could possibly do wrong, even hypothetically -- they proudly served us, and all it went nuclear in their fat little hands.

ToTheNines
03-15-2017, 01:51 PM
As I've said before, we're lucky they were big & ugly, because it would've been absolutely heartbreaking to have great looking turtles in horrible movies. With these, what you see is what you get- all flare, no care. You can't have any good expectations based on the aesthetics. With "proper" turtles you might go into it expecting something good, only to get kicked in the willy.

Ya know, this sentiment really resonated with me last time you brought it up. But apparently not enough for me to remember it lol.

CyberCubed
03-15-2017, 01:55 PM
At least it's a lesson never to give the Turtles noses/nostrils in any future incarnation ever again.

Powder
03-15-2017, 02:40 PM
As is, we have a great big tub of pure Turtle sh*t -- basically the sum of everything they could possibly do wrong, even hypothetically -- they proudly served us, and all it went nuclear in their fat little hands.

Let's hope it serves to be an example of what not to do. Every property needs one of those, I guess.

Some would argue ours was Next Mutation, but it's not that bad by any means, at least in terms of what they did "right" when compared to PD.

ProphetofGanja
03-15-2017, 03:05 PM
At least it's a lesson never to give the Turtles noses/nostrils in any future incarnation ever again.

I dunno, I think that they could be done tastefully. Haven't they had nostrils when some artists draw them in the comics? I mean real turtles have nostrils, so it's not like its illogical or unrealistic (despite the irony of worrying about realism in this property). I just think the Platinum Dunes character designers did an awful job, with a lot more than just the nostrils. All the Turtles have those weird egg-shaped heads, looking like creepy-ass Shreks. And then for some reason they tower over regular-sized humans. Just so many bad design choices, likely all simply for the sake of being "new" and "different" and "fresh"

IndigoErth
03-15-2017, 03:11 PM
Good luck on nostrils never turning up again... Kind of inevitable.

Were they actually her pets? I don't remember now.

My issue with this was she cared enough to rescue them but abandoned them in the sewer. Could have taken them to a lake or pond or something. Even the zoo maybe.
Yeah, she herself does say so directly to her room mate that they were her "childhood pets." (Which sounds odd coming from an adult woman speaking about lab animals...)

Agree with you, it's so weird that she ditched them like that. Show me a kid that would not have taken them home and either begged to keep them or hidden them!

RaphaelsIsolation
03-16-2017, 05:42 AM
They could of made a TMNT movie without a huge ****ing budget?

I mean couldn't they just make a movie on 50 million? I think the could have.

Shellington
03-16-2017, 02:05 PM
As everyone has said, design wasn't really as big a problem as getting a good story.


1 and 3 - I thought they WERE photorealistic. That was part of the problem. After all, real turtles...

https://previews.123rf.com/images/whitekrechet/whitekrechet0707/whitekrechet070700094/1355089-big-turtle-head-Stock-Photo.jpg


I would be interested in seeing something reptilian and scaly, like this...

http://www.theactionpixel.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/suicidesquad_killercroc.jpg
http://cdn.collider.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/suicide-squad-new-trailer-image-70.png

This look did earn an Oscar after all.


2 - This point stands. It's worth noting that the 2016 had the Turtles wear less stuff on their bodies, and looked the better for it (as did Bebop and Rocksteady and Krang, who turned out better than their concept art).

3 - The Turtles being huge and muscular was in the 87 and 2003 cartoons, it was from the 2012 cartoon and the IDW comics that the "youthful medium-size" look got prominence.

ToTheNines
03-16-2017, 02:07 PM
3 - The Turtles being huge and muscular was in the 87 and 2003 cartoons, it was from the 2012 cartoon and the IDW comics that the "youthful medium-size" look got prominence.

Utter bullsh*t.

FredWolfLeonardo
03-16-2017, 02:13 PM
The 2k3 turtles were bigger than the 80s and movie turtles but nothing compared to the PD ones.

I remember someone here claiming here long ago that the PD designs were inspired by the Fred Wolf turtles being giant hulks who used their muscle mass instead of their weapons to fight but that's obviously not true and another attempt at FW trolling/bashing.

Yes, they didnt use their weapons alot but other than that, their fighting style is almost nothing like the PD turtles. The FW turtles were smaller and less muscular than many of their enemies and used the environment to win most of the time.

As for the OPs question, no I wouldn't cut them any slack. While Its funny to poke fun at their appearance, I didn't think that their designs were really that bad and still liked their portrayal (except for Mikey being a creep). It wasn't their appearance but mostly the script that really let the movie down.

Utrommaniac
03-16-2017, 02:30 PM
Drink when Cubed mentions the nostrils!

I'm pretty sure the turtles are 15 years old or so. I don't think the designers got the memo on what 15 year old boys look like.

It seems like another movie wherein Bay tries to cover over his insecure masculinity with explosions and action that runs so long that it overrides the characters themselves. Just seemed like most of the characters were either meatheads or doofuses.

OOTS could have had a little more on its Krang - who I think had a really good design for a Bay film, but he was a Plot Fairy that only showed up twice.

Drink when Utrommaniac talks about BayKrang as little more than a plot pusher!

CyberCubed
03-16-2017, 02:34 PM
The weird thing is I never realized how hideous the Turtles look like with noses till this movie came out. And I'm sure it's not just the 30 years of seeing the Turtles with nothing on their faces below the bandana, it just looks hideous.

IndigoErth
03-16-2017, 03:20 PM
Agree, Krang did virtually nothing, he never posed an actual threat. The most he accomplished was removing Shredder from the film. (Okay, he had a hand, er, tentacle in the creation of Bebop and Rocksteady as mutants, but only very indirectly.) Ultimately the main plot of this film boils down largely to a brief scavenger hunt. When it should have been about getting rid of a Technodrom that's busy trying to destroy the world.

After all the work put into him they kind of wasted Krang. Which makes it a shame they didn't make a film good enough to buy it a third wherein that they might have actually put him to use.



As for their age(s), honestly I just ignore it with a version like this. These films may claim that they are teens, but they sure as hell look more like grown men.

When we saw them as young kids in the first film, they looked about what... 10-ish? Maybe a little less? (Even though that one toy set claimed the junior Turtle figure to be "teen.") How the hell do you go from THAT to the grown looking Turtles in such a short time? Supercharged puberty? Unlike everyone else they lucked out and just woke up like that one morning? lol

In the first film, Splinter preferred to keep them locked up and overprotected, so I've just shrugged it off like he lied to them about their real age for a long time... :trazz: Or something like that. (Like he conveniently just stopped keeping good count of the years, and they're so shelterd and taught to respect and trust his judgement - lest they invite his violent lashing out at them - that they just didn't question it.) After all, some parents don't want their children to grow up and try to continue treating them as kids.

The Boston Ninja Turtle
03-18-2017, 06:29 PM
They would cut them some slack if they had better Writers, Writers who understand TMNT better, The problem is regardless of who writes the movies, Michael Bay calls the shots, He was the one that changed the tone of the 1st movie, after complaining that it was too serious, and then wanting more humor in it.

this! 100% this

the designs can grow on you and if they dont in the end its really the last things that needs to be fixed...the turtles couldve been the ideal design and the story was still poopy

Candy Kappa
03-19-2017, 05:12 AM
3 - The Turtles being huge and muscular was in the 87 and 2003 cartoons, it was from the 2012 cartoon and the IDW comics that the "youthful medium-size" look got prominence.

Hmmm, maybe you should do some research before making wild claims. :roll:

FW:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Harmophious/SizeChartsTogether.jpg
http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2014/08/caseyjnesoutalw.png

The FW Turtles are short.

2K3:
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0809/03/tmnt1.jpg
https://comiclists.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/kirby-tmnt.jpg
http://orig01.deviantart.net/9248/f/2014/007/8/5/leo_raph_don__mikey_and_casey_1_by_dragonricca-d718nih.jpg
And shock, oh shock, the 2k3 Turtles are also short.

Chris
03-19-2017, 08:02 AM
Never forgive a bad movie for good designs. I loved some of the costume designs in Batman V Superman (minus cave troll Doomsday) but that doesn't excuse the movie for being terrible.

The best Turtle designs in the franchises history couldn't have saved these films. It starts with characters & story not with "we have this idea for a great action sequence".

ToTheNines
03-19-2017, 08:08 AM
Thank you Candy, I was gonna make a similar post but I doubt they'll respond. If they do, I expect a screen shot of the second mutations from Red Sky and dragon-turtles from the Ninja Tribunal season.

Edit: (preemptive strike) Look how Bayturtles uses stuff from all the past versions!


https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRqssdycXmIjqxPY-G-h2lqo1X-OMklkbr-Solluf1-ONMgZPbC8w

http://orig01.deviantart.net/5dbb/f/2015/314/e/1/dragons_by_doctorworm1987-d9g8g7u.png

Wolfie65
03-20-2017, 08:37 AM
For a start, they could have just made 1 movie instead of trying to cram 5 movies into 1.
That works (VERY well) if writers and director know what they're doing......

Walkabout
05-04-2017, 07:41 AM
Now this is highly hypothetical, but give it a try.

How much easier would you have been on Bayturtles if:

1. They were a photorealistic version of what you expect the turtles to look like.

2. They weren't covered in random trinkets and flair.

3. They weren't 9 feet tall and UGLY AS FU*K.

They still would have sucked, but I think I would have found the movie a bit more palatable. And the general movie going audience might have agreed.

Thoughts?

I'd have amicably enjoyed the movie, even though it was still a turd.

The three things you listed are what prevent me from watching the PD TMNT films.

AquaParade
05-04-2017, 03:27 PM
As much as Bayturtles let me down, it really had nothing to do with the turtle designs.

I would have made them smaller/shorter. Possibly would have dropped the nostrils. Honestly, there's a lot I like about those designs.

It's the **** storytelling that killled the film for me.

THGhost
05-15-2017, 08:30 AM
I just hate those goddamn noses and nostrils. They're so goddamn disgusting. They look like Shrek's nose or noses of the Hulk or something.

I remember being mentally traumatized back in 2014 when the Bayturtle designs were revealed for the first time. I was so morally offended by the noses that I sat there ranting what a disgrace it was on a daily basis for like 2 years.

I had never seen something so disturbing and morally wrong before in my entire life as Turtle noses.

Turtles have nostrils, for the 100th time! :lol:

BUT... the turtles' designs are kinda ugly. I'll give you that. Especially in the 2014 movie. :P

Notice how Cubed never responds whenever I point this out to him. :roll:

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-28-2017, 09:58 AM
They could of made a TMNT movie without a huge ****ing budget?

I mean couldn't they just make a movie on 50 million? I think the could have.

With a Kraang or Triceraton large-scale invasion of Earth.