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LeotheLateBloomer
03-16-2017, 06:20 AM
I know there are some who prefer one over the other but despite my love for Mirage, I've have read only some of IDW. I wish to read more of it. There are somethings that I like but also some stuff that I just cannot get passed. I'll eventually post what I think about both overall whenever I get around to reading more of the latter.

What are some of the aspects you like from both Mirage and IDW, aspects you dislike, stuff you wished they did more or less of. It doesn't have to be super detailed It can be something simple like the stories, the characters, anything. And then end it off with which one do you overall prefer and why?

ToTheNines
03-16-2017, 06:31 AM
Volume 4 had its obvious problems. Plus Pete never finished the dang thing.

Tales Volume 2 produced some great stories, but I'd say they coulda toned down the constant Jim Lawson and Steve Murphy. I say that as a big fan of both of them, just always enjoyed when they showcased new/unique talent. Pretty annoying how they frigged around and never let Tristan Jones really get into his arc until it was too late.

Other than that Mirage was tops. Maybe coulda used more Farley and Zulli, less Hedden and McWeeney during the guest era.

As for IDW, it feels a little more organic now that we have 2 ongoing books, but I wish they'd be a little more avant-garde with their story telling and not be so enslaved to the TPB format. But hey, they have a model and it's their best selling book.

Oh, and they need to go back to all red bandanas. Especially now that pretty much everyone follows Santolouco's design and gives them all different height/build/facial features.

CyberCubed
03-16-2017, 06:53 AM
Mirage guest era was a bit hit or miss, and Volume 2 was ok but rushed. Volume 4 is...well...Volume 4. I liked the better parts of it but Pete's writing is all over the place.

Most of Tales was pretty good. Each issue wasn't necessarily exciting, but it was nice to read one-shot stories and a few multiparters. It really fleshed out the Mirage universe since in Tales they went on all sorts of adventures they never went on in the main series.

Also Mirage has almost no rogues gallery outside Savanti. Almost every villain was one and done or got killed in their first or second appearances. Shredder, Rat King, Baxter, etc. were all short-lived, as was Karai as a villain and the Triceratons really. Leatherhead also was an uneasy ally in most issues besides the ones he went crazy in.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-16-2017, 08:46 AM
Volume 4 had its obvious problems. Plus Pete never finished the dang thing.

Tales Volume 2 produced some great stories, but I'd say they coulda toned down the constant Jim Lawson and Steve Murphy. I say that as a big fan of both of them, just always enjoyed when they showcased new/unique talent. Pretty annoying how they frigged around and never let Tristan Jones really get into his arc until it was too late.

Other than that Mirage was tops. Maybe coulda used more Farley and Zulli, less Hedden and McWeeney during the guest era.

As for IDW, it feels a little more organic now that we have 2 ongoing books, but I wish they'd be a little more avant-garde with their story telling and not be so enslaved to the TPB format. But hey, they have a model and it's their best selling book.

Oh, and they need to go back to all red bandanas. Especially now that pretty much everyone follows Santolouco's design and gives them all different height/build/facial features.

Damn, TTN listed all my stuff.

Volume 4 needed serious rewriting, focus, and direction.

Tales Volume 2 needed to focus on their multi-part stories and actually finish them.

Volume 3 needed to not crossover with so many Image characters.

IDW is a slave to the trade paperback. Which is nice in some regards, but also a little irksome when a new story arc is just starting up.

Volume 1 needed to not take a year or three off for weird wacky nonsensical guest era issues. Some quality control, is what I'm saying.

Volume 2 needed to not have Casey brainwashed into thinking he was Arnie Schwartz.

Icegaze
03-16-2017, 10:35 AM
I will start by saying I have an obvious bias for the IDW series over Mirage as I never had the opportunity (or will) to truly delve into the original (source material) comics.

Things I didn't like about the TMNT Mirage series:
1. The art style (not just the design, as I love the way the turtles were drawn in the first few chapters) but more about the ink work and other details (or lack thereof).
2. Most plots post Shredder/Foot clan. Didn't give them much of a chance to be honest.

Things I don't like about the TMNT IDW series:
1. Character design inconsistencies (I don't mind having different artists sharing the workload, but I still cannot get over how drastically different the turtles or Alopex look depending who draws them).
2. *Potential spoilers* I may change my mind on them, but for now, I'm not a huge fan of the Pantheon (supernatural beings such as Kitsune) or should I say, of their involvement with the plot.

Anything else would be extremely subjective and "petty". ;p

All in all, I'm so thrilled we get the best of all the "worlds" of TMNT with IDW.

CyberCubed
03-16-2017, 12:43 PM
Turtles designs changed pretty drastically under Mirage artists as well, but I like seeing all the different artists takes on the Turtles. Each artists has their own unique style to make their TMNT stand out.

plastroncafe
03-16-2017, 12:56 PM
Mirage:

I've always really disliked the lack of a firm timeline/story bible.
I mean, I get why there isn't one, but that doesn't mean I have to be entirely happy about it.

Not always happy with the portrayal of female characters, but as it was the 80s...again, so product of its time.

IDW:

I'm acknowledging right out of the gate that I'm several story-arcs behind.
Basically I've fallen off since Don got put into Metalhead.
I find IDW's greatest sin is that it relies a bit too much on Telling, rather than Showing.

Also that it's racing to get to the next plot point, and dragging me along with it. Because of that I haven't really connected with the characters.

Andrew NDB
03-16-2017, 01:07 PM
Also that it's racing to get to the next plot point, and dragging me along with it. Because of that I haven't really connected with the characters.

That's kind of how I left off with it. Racing to get to the next plot, dragging me along while dangling carrots of Fred Wolf stuff in front of me.

You know, little tidbits like "Look, the Technodrome is coming soon!!! Hang in there!!" But I don't want to see the Technodrome. It all just sort of leaves me flat.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-16-2017, 01:11 PM
Pacing usually hasn't been an issue for me with IDW, except for rushing through Donatello trapped inside Metalhead.

The no-killing issue bugs me, though, especially regarding City Fall and Dark Leo.

Andrew NDB
03-16-2017, 01:21 PM
The no-killing issue bugs me, though, especially regarding City Fall and Dark Leo.

Yeah, that undermined the whole story. "Look how DARK Leo has gone and how conflicted he is... ALMOST killing Slash!!" or whatever.

Obviously not IDW's fault, but it's still their tree.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-16-2017, 01:26 PM
Yeah, that undermined the whole story. "Look how DARK Leo has gone and how conflicted he is... ALMOST killing Slash!!" or whatever.

Obviously not IDW's fault, but it's still their tree.

... Tree?

Andrew NDB
03-16-2017, 01:35 PM
... Tree?

k2dbF7SK4KI#t=1m50s

Jester
03-16-2017, 01:40 PM
Is it all comics now days or just IDW's TMNT that does the whole start a quote on one page...

Jester
03-16-2017, 01:42 PM
...only to finish it on the next page.

Because that really bugs me...it's practically every page. And when you read multiple issues back to back after missing some, it's glaring.

ToTheNines
03-16-2017, 02:04 PM
Volume 2 needed to not have Casey brainwashed into thinking he was Arnie Schwartz.

Casey didn't bring anything to that story either way. I just ignore his word bubbles lol.


IDW:

I'm acknowledging right out of the gate that I'm several story-arcs behind.
Basically I've fallen off since Don got put into Metalhead.
I find IDW's greatest sin is that it relies a bit too much on Telling, rather than Showing.

Also that it's racing to get to the next plot point, and dragging me along with it. Because of that I haven't really connected with the characters.

Ah man. That wasn't the best arc overall. But you're doing yourself a great disservice by not finishing that one. #50 was righteous.

especially regarding City Fall and Dark Leo.

That was bunk. They could have just not even addressed it and left it to our imaginations.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-16-2017, 02:07 PM
Casey didn't bring anything to that story either way. I just ignore his word bubbles lol.

Ah man. That wasn't the best arc overall. But you're doing yourself a great disservice by not finishing that one. #50 was righteous.

That was bunk. They could have just not even addressed it and left it to our imaginations.

And Nobody was just there as cannon fodder. :tlol: Not that I cared... never liked that character.

CyberCubed
03-16-2017, 02:20 PM
Seems to me that Viacom relaxed their hold on IDW since the Cityfall story arc, now that we're seeing things like Darius murdered right in front of the Turtles, or the violence with Slash attacking the Mutanimals.

If the Cityfall arc happened NOW for example instead of back in 2013 or when it originally came out, it probably would have had on-screen deaths.

Andrew NDB
03-16-2017, 02:22 PM
Seems to me that Viacom relaxed their hold on IDW since the Cityfall story arc, now that we're seeing things like Darius murdered right in front of the Turtles, or the violence with Slash attacking the Mutanimals.

If the Cityfall arc happened NOW for example instead of back in 2013 or when it originally came out, it probably would have had on-screen deaths.

Nah. Nickelodeon has always been OK with on-page blood and killing to some extent... as long as it's not the Turtles themselves doing it. That's where they draw the line, always have. The Turtles killing might hurt their ability to sell TMNT lunchboxes, or whatever, is probably the general mentality.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if -- hypothetically -- one month, IDW sends in a comic for approval from Nickelodeon, and it "passes" with no problems, then 3 months later they could send the exact same comic in for approval from Nickelodeon, and it suddenly gets "fix it" notes. Or vice versa.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-16-2017, 02:24 PM
Nah. Nickelodeon has always been OK with on-page blood and killing to some extent... as long as it's not the Turtles themselves doing it. That's where they draw the line, always have.

Yep. This. Which is weird when you consider that they seem to be okay with SPLINTER doing killings...

Eh, whatever. :trolleye::tgrumble:

We'll never see Turtles killing their enemies ever again. That was a Mirage exclusive.

Andrew NDB
03-16-2017, 02:30 PM
The beginning of every Nickelodeon board meeting:

http://www.kpba.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/kpba_cover-phot-560x400.jpg

"Repeat after me, the Ninja Turtles like to eat pizza, they don't like to kill their enemies..."

***First of Two Latin Kings***
03-16-2017, 04:06 PM
The dark haired girl has a nice shape.

What was this thread about again?

spookycookies
03-16-2017, 06:28 PM
My only complaint for IDW is the Casey & April mini-series that was the only bump I've felt in the road so far. Besides being really decompressed to the point where very little happened, it also took 2 important supporting characters away from Issue 50 that had both been around since #1.

But I'm over it.

I think every incarnation of the TMNT has had a problem keeping the supporting characters relevant... April during City At War was a pain to read for me.

My main complaints with Mirage is how it just sort of falls apart in the end and we get so many depressing stories about the Turtles not being together. I'm super interested in seeing them live out their lives and be in the future (how long exactly do mutated turtles live for?) but It kinda hurt the way Peter left Mikey seemingly gone forever.

CyberCubed
03-16-2017, 06:49 PM
My main complaints with Mirage is how it just sort of falls apart in the end and we get so many depressing stories about the Turtles not being together. I'm super interested in seeing them live out their lives and be in the future (how long exactly do mutated turtles live for?) but It kinda hurt the way Peter left Mikey seemingly gone forever.

That's actually what people like a lot about Mirage TMNT compared to any of the other series. The Turtles basically grow old, grow apart from each other, and then die.

Mirage TMNT were never there to be superheroes, save the world, or serve any real purpose. Sure they got into a lot of adventures along the way, but in the end of things they were just written as normal "people" living out their lives. Mirage never had any endgame planned in mind, or any major climax on the horizon...so it petering out in the end works well.

Andrew NDB
03-16-2017, 07:32 PM
I'm super interested in seeing them live out their lives and be in the future

While I'm sure there's potential for good stories in that... do you really want to read yearly stories of Old Leonardo tending to his birds in his treehouse? Or Old Donatello doing newspaper crosswords and talking to a computer all day?

(how long exactly do mutated turtles live for?)

We see Donatello die (basically) of old age in the Tales treasury edition stuff around 2100. He would be about 130 then. So that.

but It kinda hurt the way Peter left Mikey seemingly gone forever.

He came back in Odyssey. :)

Utrommaniac
03-16-2017, 07:44 PM
We did see Raphael run around what's left of Japan with Karai's grandchild.

And while again question why the Utroms were working on cancer cures instead of global warming - with their primary reason for coming to Earth being to rescue humanity from flooding - I did like that even when the flooding came, life moved on. Just...guys, if that's what you're worried about, help with that and put cancer on the sidelines. Unless you're curing April of the ovarian disorder that would have been more functional to the story than the mess we really got.

plastroncafe
03-16-2017, 09:42 PM
We see Donatello die (basically) of old age in the Tales treasury edition stuff around 2100. He would be about 130 then. So that.

If we go by the extra content in the role playing games, I think Raph lives way longer than that. Long enough to see the end of humanity.

I know that's extra can and stuff, but I don't think it would have been in the RPG without approval.

Andrew NDB
03-16-2017, 10:34 PM
If we go by the extra content in the role playing games, I think Raph lives way longer than that. Long enough to see the end of humanity.

I know that's extra can and stuff, but I don't think it would have been in the RPG without approval.

As much as I'd like it to be it doesn't work with the Mirage works that followed it. "After the Bomb" gives years, specific dates... the world would be bombed out at that time, total nuclear apocalypse, filled with mutant bunnies and bears and such with humans in the minority even by the time Raph had his adventure with Karai's grandchild, let alone the Leo and Radical stuff and everything else. Doesn't work, and I looked hard at the dates.

With "Odyssey" I did use the Palladium timeline as a template juuust beyond those troublesome years where it didn't jive with what everything Mirage post-2000 was doing.

DestronMirage22
03-16-2017, 10:51 PM
The dark haired girl has a nice shape.

What was this thread about again?

Seems to me like she's the only female in that picture that has a shape, but agreed. :P

Ninjinister
03-16-2017, 11:55 PM
so it petering out in the end works well.

That's quite the multi-laird statement.

myconius
03-17-2017, 02:21 PM
i try not to nit pick.
but just a few minor grievances i have-

Mirage
-hit or miss Guest Era Tmnt Vol.1
-rushed ending to Tmnt Vol.2 (at least it concluded)
-hit or miss stories in 'Tales of Tmnt' Vol.2
-never concluded Vol.4
-unless a specific Turtle was the main focus of a panel or holding their weapon, sometimes when seen in the background they felt like they had no personality.


IDW
-can become too drama focused at times
-could really benefit from more action
-can't stand when IDW Michelangelo gets a bug up his shell
-the Turtles don't kill
-even without the Turtles killing enemies, they feel restrained when fighting with their weapons. they really need to cut loose more. . . . Literally!


other than that .... i love 'em both.

CyberCubed
03-17-2017, 02:36 PM
A minor nitpick I have is revealing a character that still won't be used for months/years down the line. A recent example is Ch'rell, who got his reveal a while ago and we haven't seen him since for the next 15+ issues since he's still in stasis. I'd rather new characters not be revealed so far ahead of when they're actually ready to use them.

They did something similar with Leatherhead and his first cameo in Turtles in Time #3, but we didn't get his real debut until issue #56 or whatever it was. That was like a 2 year wait if I recall. You could say the same for human Bebop/Rocksteady who debuted in the Alopex micro but they weren't mutated for a good 2 years later.

I understand putting in teasers for things coming down the road, but some of these were done way too early.

Panda_Kahn_fan
03-17-2017, 02:40 PM
Mirage... after another reread, my only complaints are the April-drawing-cockroach story, the filler in Volume I, and the a lack of a connected ongoing story line. Other than that Mirage is cool, just not my cup of tea.

IDW I love, but I will admit it has it's flaws; like cramming 500 story plots and characters in at once, or not using an existing character when the story calls for it, and making a new expy instead.

DestronMirage22
03-17-2017, 02:43 PM
I really like IDW and all, but I feel like they could be doing better in some aspects. They could take more inspiration from Mirage and Image, and less of the usual tropes regarding the four guys: we don't always need to see Raph as an angry dude, or Mike as a dumb guy. If they did less of that kind of stuff I'd be more happy, but as it stands it's still really good.

Utrommaniac
03-17-2017, 02:48 PM
Mike isn't all that dumb, though? He might not have a lot of critical thinking, but that doesn't mean he's stupid.

DestronMirage22
03-17-2017, 02:50 PM
Mike isn't all that dumb, though? He might not have a lot of critical thinking, but that doesn't mean he's stupid.

Well, he does have his little moments to shine, like in #50, and he definitely has heart, but that kind of stuff in kind of undermined when he does things like tell poop jokes, like in the preview of the latest issue.

CyberCubed
03-17-2017, 02:52 PM
or not using an existing character when the story calls for it, and making a new expy instead.

??? They don't do that though.

The only suspiciously similar character in IDW to an old character is of course Alopex compared to Ninjara. But if I recall Eastman created Alopex.

myconius
03-17-2017, 02:57 PM
A minor nitpick I have is revealing a character that still won't be used for months/years down the line. A recent example is Ch'rell, who got his reveal a while ago and we haven't seen him since for the next 15+ issues since he's still in stasis. I'd rather new characters not be revealed so far ahead of when they're actually ready to use them.

They did something similar with Leatherhead and his first cameo in Turtles in Time #3, but we didn't get his real debut until issue #56 or whatever it was. That was like a 2 year wait if I recall. You could say the same for human Bebop/Rocksteady who debuted in the Alopex micro but they weren't mutated for a good 2 years later.

I understand putting in teasers for things coming down the road, but some of these were done way too early.

yeah, the new character intros can be a tad bit too slow burn.
and other times like Leatherhead and Ch'rell WAY too delayed!!

Utrommaniac
03-17-2017, 03:22 PM
Leatherhead, maybe, but Ch'rell is right on time.

MAYBE if he was in Utrom Empire, it would be a little better, but I think he's fine where he's at.

CyberCubed
03-17-2017, 04:43 PM
I wonder if Ch'rell will be in the Trial of Krang arc, that would mean we'd see him in the 70's of the issues, or else it'll be a long wait after.

Utrommaniac
03-17-2017, 05:24 PM
Likely so. It's the most appropriate place for him, and he's probably a Prime Witness to some of Krang's murders - especially with him carrying most of them out. Of course, he wouldn't testify, and would probably be focused on trying to free him while the turtles are rescuing the witnesses from assassination.

Andrew NDB
03-18-2017, 11:39 AM
You could say the same for human Bebop/Rocksteady who debuted in the Alopex micro but they weren't mutated for a good 2 years later.

Kind of a... stay of execution, really.

myconius
03-18-2017, 11:47 AM
Kind of a... stay of execution, really.

you really despise any and all things Fred Wolf eh? :lol:

just curious what your thoughts are on which are worse,
Bebop and Rocksteady or Tokka and Rahzar?

***First of Two Latin Kings***
03-18-2017, 04:25 PM
I don't thing he despises Fred Wolf. Probably just feels those elements shouldn't be overused. Archie's staff did a good job with this.

In Archie they are capable of living hundreds of years, like Sea Turtles. By this time hadn't Murphy taken over on writing duties? I wish this were the case in Mirage. Not that it did much good in Archie, since the series was canceled after 70 issues.

It should have gone on FOREVER.

Technogeek29
03-21-2017, 02:01 AM
I really like IDW and all, but I feel like they could be doing better in some aspects. They could take more inspiration from Mirage and Image, and less of the usual tropes regarding the four guys: we don't always need to see Raph as an angry dude, or Mike as a dumb guy. If they did less of that kind of stuff I'd be more happy, but as it stands it's still really good.

I would stick IDW Raph as more grumpy than angry. Most of his anger normally comes out in sarcastic remarks towards others and I've only counted 4 times he's actually lost his temper and lashed out.

Utrommaniac
03-21-2017, 02:48 AM
And in the moments that he does lash out, he's justified. Especially in the case of Donatello being on the brink of death.

myconius
03-21-2017, 07:04 AM
I would stick IDW Raph as more grumpy than angry.

not always but IDW Michelangelo has been depicted as being pretty grumpy as well.

IDW Mike and Raph need their own spin-off series - 'Super Grumpy-O Bros.'

ChosenOne
03-21-2017, 08:56 AM
not always but IDW Michelangelo has been depicted as being pretty grumpy as well.

IDW Mike and Raph need their own spin-off series - 'Super Grumpy-O Bros.'

"Grumpy and Grumpier" :tgrin:

myconius
03-21-2017, 11:16 AM
"Grumpy and Grumpier" :tgrin:

i'd say Jack Lemmon as Mike and Walter Matthau as Raph :tlol:

http://images.amcnetworks.com/blogs.amctv.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Grumpy-Men-560.jpg

plastroncafe
03-21-2017, 11:26 AM
I would watch that movie!
...
Actually, I have!

myconius
03-21-2017, 11:32 AM
I would watch that movie!
...
Actually, I have!

original and sequel were both really good! :)

pferreira
03-23-2017, 09:16 AM
you really despise any and all things Fred Wolf eh? :lol:When he gets like that it's best to ignore him. ;)

Powder
03-23-2017, 01:01 PM
Some would say the same of those who fervently defend it.

Rooish
03-25-2017, 11:47 AM
Much of this has been said, but I'll post my agreement regarding dislikes.

Mirage:
- The turtles were often a bit indistinguishable, particularly in the Eastman-written issues or guest issues. It often seemed like they hadn't quite worked out the personalities.
- It was always the Leo and Raph show featuring April and Casey with guest appearances by Mike, Don and Splinter
- Some of the guest artist issues, although many were great
- Does Volume 4 count? Although I liked it at the time, I now realize how decompressed it was. Also everyone was always talking aloud to themselves. This happened in the earlier Mirage comics too.

IDW
- The script is sometimes pretty cringe-worthy, and if someone's speech ends with an ellipses transitioning into a different scene on the next page and a final metaphoric comment, I will throw the book across the room
- Not depressing enough (I loved the Mirage depressing-ness)
- The no killing. Ugh. Although I guess these Turtles are supposed to be more naive and relateable.
- It's still the Raph show. Raph was separated from the family, then made the first legit friend (Casey), has the most interaction with nearly everyone, got a girlfriend, got a pet (Mikey's realm!!), is probably the best fighter, plays the role of talking sense into all his brothers (except maybe Don who is all sense all the time)... omg I like Raph y'all but I don't like when the author bias shows.
- I guess it's just me, but I can't stand the move towards mimicking the Nick designs in terms of dramatically different heights and builds of the Turtles. I don't mind this to an extent, like in the live action movies. Yes it makes sense if Raph is the most muscular. But I do not really enjoy Santolouco's art: I recognize that he is a very skilled artist, but the Turtles designs are just too ridiculously stereotypical in their builds, and too baby-face looking. I like to think I was responsible for him getting rid of Mike's stupid buck teeth as I wrote a long letter begging IDW to change it. Not meaning to judge buck teeth but Mikey doesn't need to look like so infantalized. And Santolouco's art has changed the writing style too, with Michelangelo getting dumber and more childlike. Santolouco should have stuck with his Secret History of the Foot Clan style, and even that was a bit too dramatic in terms of differences in the Turtles design for me. Campbell did this too, with Don being like two feet taller than Leo.

On the other hand, I do love the continuity and character development in IDW, not to mention the diversity in women characters (and a lesbian character!) and the plot lines that have been planned for years. Don and Mike have much larger roles than in Mirage Volume 1, which is awesome.

CyberCubed
03-25-2017, 12:13 PM
- It's still the Raph show. Raph was separated from the family, then made the first legit friend (Casey), has the most interaction with nearly everyone, got a girlfriend, got a pet (Mikey's realm!!), is probably the best fighter, plays the role of talking sense into all his brothers (except maybe Don who is all sense all the time)... omg I like Raph y'all but I don't like when the author bias shows. .

Really? I think IDW has done a good job given each Turtle almost equal screentime and things to do. The focus shifts between them every few arcs, like right now we're starting a new Leo arc of him doubting himself being able to lead, before that was Michelangelo, and before that Don/Metalhead, etc.

As for the other stuff, Raph meeting Casey first and having a love interest is the same thing most of the other series do. Ninjara in Archie, Mona Lisa in the OT or Nick, it's not anything new.

Utrommaniac
03-25-2017, 12:17 PM
Yeah, the Raph stuff just seemed to be at the very, very beginning of the story, and has well more than stepped aside ever since. Leonardo got a Great Big Arch after that - and appears to be getting a new one right now while he's having to take care of his brothers without Splinter's guidance. Then Donatello got one while he was in Metalhead's programming. And finally, Michelangelo.

They've all getting their turns in the spotlight, and might be going through another cycle now that the first big hurdle is done.

Rooish
03-25-2017, 12:46 PM
It does way better with sharing the love than most other incarnations, but I still perceive Raph as top Turtle. Yes everyone got their spotlight--2, 3, or 4 years in--but I still see a focus on Raph. Like in everything from scripting to the art, where in many scenes he tends to be forefront.

I didn't notice the thread title was aspects you like or dislike. So I don't want to be too negative. Here are my likes:

Mirage:
- The art was usually beautiful. I mean the mutants have always looked better than the humans, but I love looking at it. I also loved Lawson's art for most of Mirage, except Tales Vol. 2 where it had really deteriorated, I assume because of how rushed he was.
- The comics that dealt with very adult themed issues. Shades of Grey, Return to New York, Sons of the Silent Age, Twilight of the Ring or whatever it was called, City at War (of course), Volume 2 in general. The melancholy feel was very cool. Nothing can create again the feelings I had when I, who had only ever seen Fred Wolf and the old movies, first learned of Mirage, or first saw the cover of City at War #5, etc.
- I liked April's and Casey's development better in this series than in IDW.

IDW
- Despite my previous complaints about some of the art, I recognize that the series has had very good artists and that Santolouco is very technically skilled. I also like Smith, the guy who did the arc when they were dealing with Krang and Neutrinos (my memory sucks), Duncan, and many others. The colouring is awesome.
- The well developed plots and characters
- The Mutanimals. Although I want Dreadmon.
- I like the "tying in elements from all the universes" stuff. It's cool seeing redesigns of old characters. Although the Nobody moment was weird. Angel is awesome but she is not Nobody.
- As I mentioned before, better women characters.
- The reincarnation angle was weird at first but it grew on me. It is a little odd for the Turtles to have such cosmic importance, but it was a neat direction to take.

Utrommaniac
03-25-2017, 01:19 PM
Well, you're in luck, because Dreadmon is coming :D .

I guess I should probably set up my likes too.

Mirage:
- The setup of many of the stories, even if they fall flat.
Such as the Moo Mesa crossover in Tales Vol 2. It had a setup that I thought was incredible, but it rounded out to something dumb. Not to mention that it mixed up the underground Utrom groups. The Space Vampire ending was a huge disappointment. You have a long string of cattle puns and they end with a Space Vampire? Not Hathor (http://www.crystalinks.com/hathor.html) or even Hera (http://www.ianridpath.com/startales/milkyway.htm), both of whom are associated with the Milky Way (even its creation) in some way. And you miss out on the opportunity of Hera sicing a gigantic peacock on meddling Utoms?
- PROFESSOR OBLIGADO. ME BOY.

IDW
- How much more there is to the Utroms. I especially like Santolouco's art style where it actually looks like they have room in their bodies for organs, something that baffles me with the Eastman/Laird/Lawson styles. They're not just a face with legs. Which is kind of what we get with Andy Khun's style. The thing I liked about his and Sophie Campbell's style is how they deliver variety of color instead of them all being pink, like in the 2004 show. Except more spread out.
- Krang and Shredder being more than warlord menaces - especially Krang. He may have lost his role as an inventor, but blossoms as someone trying to save his people instead of being a danger to them like Ch'rell was.
- GOLDEN. FUGITOID.
I've never been able to express how much I love the color change on the Fugitiod, but...GOD, I LOVE IT. It's so much more appealing to the eye.
- What do you know, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are teenagers. Whodda thunk?
- Splinter not being the ultimate moral compass of goodness. It's something the FW and 4Kids show suffered from, and probably could have been stressed in the 4Kids show to give Karai a card ahead of Leonardo while he tried to turn her against her father.

Rooish
03-25-2017, 01:29 PM
Well, you're in luck, because Dreadmon is coming :D .



Oh my God, I hadn't been keeping up with the series for a few months. Dreadmon looks amazing.

Utrommaniac
03-25-2017, 11:54 PM
He'd be completely new to me, since I haven't really read the original Mighty Mutanimals/Archie TMNT comics in their entirety. I saw about the Captain Planet levels of environmentalism and it turned my interest away.

But, it should be interesting to see him and I'm still calling him being a coyote! I'm not actually betting, but if I were, I'd bet five dollars on it!

Rooish
03-26-2017, 10:39 AM
He was never really that big a deal. I just loved his old and new designs.

His name is a little unfortunate; I'm surprised they don't have to tweak it in some way.

He had better not speak with a Jamaican accent.

ProphetofGanja
03-26-2017, 11:21 AM
He was never really that big a deal. I just loved his old and new designs.

His name is a little unfortunate; I'm surprised they don't have to tweak it in some way.

He had better not speak with a Jamaican accent.

If they did it well I wouldn't mind that. All of the other mutants have their own unique personalities, either from memories of their past lives or whatever they were exposed to pre-mutation, so why not Dreadmon?

His name does make me think of Digimon though

Rooish
03-26-2017, 11:26 AM
If they did it well I wouldn't mind that. All of the other mutants have their own unique personalities, either from memories of their past lives or whatever they were exposed to pre-mutation, so why not Dreadmon?

His name does make me think of Digimon though

I wouldn't mind it if it was done well, I suppose. I just see it dissolving into a stereotype really easily. I really doubt they will give him that accent.

ProphetofGanja
03-26-2017, 12:04 PM
I wouldn't mind it if it was done well, I suppose. I just see it dissolving into a stereotype really easily. I really doubt they will give him that accent.

Yeah, the line between character and caricature would be too fine, and writing accents is kinda hard anyways. They'd probably juse give him unique dialogue or speech patterns , they way they do for Pete, Mondo, Ray and the rest

pferreira
03-30-2017, 08:24 AM
Some would say the same of those who fervently defend it.To be honest I haven't hardly seen anyone defend the FW series.