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TigerClaw
03-16-2017, 09:37 PM
Kevin Eastman started his own Youtube Channel, He answers questions from the fans, all regarding TMNT and such.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu15wGjxB0n1Wuo3VPo11Qg

Here's his most recent videos.

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Wildcat
03-16-2017, 10:54 PM
Where do you submit questions? Just in the comments?

TigerClaw
03-17-2017, 08:35 AM
Where do you submit questions? Just in the comments?
Maybe from the comments or twitter?

Andrew NDB
03-17-2017, 10:11 AM
Someone should ask him, "What is the very best TMNT movie or TV show, ever?" so we can watch him explode from the self-paradox.

ToTheNines
03-17-2017, 10:32 AM
Kevin, have you ever seen a movie called "The Raid"?

Jephael
03-17-2017, 10:33 AM
I got a good one to ask him, though I kinda want to say it in person at Comic Con.

CyberCubed
03-17-2017, 12:04 PM
I never thought we'd live in a world where 50-60+ year old men start youtube channels and social media accounts. These people didn't even grow up with the internet when they were younger, it didn't even exist till they were like 35 or so.

MikeandRaph87
03-17-2017, 12:12 PM
Cool find,Tiger Claw! Thanks for sharing!

Powder
03-17-2017, 12:47 PM
Be sure to Google the topic you want to ask about before you ask about it.

Jephael
03-17-2017, 12:57 PM
I never thought we'd live in a world where 50-60+ year old men start youtube channels and social media accounts. These people didn't even grow up with the internet when they were younger, it didn't even exist till they were like 35 or so.

Makes me feel kinda sad for those who passed away just before the internet came about, like John Candy and Chris Farley. They would've had a field day with all this modern technology.

AquaParade
03-20-2017, 01:24 PM
Someone should ask him, "What is the very best TMNT movie or TV show, ever?" so we can watch him explode from the self-paradox.

He'd probably say the Baron movie. I genuinely believe him when he praises it.

I get the joke though - his word isn't reliable. I felt pretty burned by his Avengers and Raid: Redemption to TMNT 2014 comparisons.

turtlefanforever
03-21-2017, 06:31 AM
I'm just happy tigerclaw posted a link to the actual channel and not a black nerd video talking about Kevin Eastman starting a youtube channel.

But nice find, i might ask him a question

d_osborn
03-21-2017, 08:48 AM
Very cool! Hopefully the guy doesn't get bombarded by tactless fanboys. :roll:

CyberCubed
03-21-2017, 10:02 AM
Very cool! Hopefully the guy doesn't get bombarded by tactless fanboys. :roll:

Nobody even knows who Kevin Eastman is besides people here.

Vegita-San
03-21-2017, 10:44 AM
Someone should ask him, "What is the very best TMNT movie or TV show, ever?" so we can watch him explode from the self-paradox.

we should all be so willing to try new things. i just wish he'd say no once in a while..

Vegita-San
03-21-2017, 10:45 AM
He'd probably say the Baron movie. I genuinely believe him when he praises it.

I get the joke though - his word isn't reliable. I felt pretty burned by his Avengers and Raid: Redemption to TMNT 2014 comparisons.

I feel sorry for him. he genuinely thinks everyhing is great. no matter how bad it is. where as peter is kind of the opposite. everything needs to be perfect or done his way or else it's an abomination.

I kind of like peter's way better these days :)

Andrew NDB
03-21-2017, 11:11 AM
I feel sorry for him. he genuinely thinks everyhing is great. no matter how bad it is. where as peter is kind of the opposite. everything needs to be perfect or done his way or else it's an abomination.

I kind of like peter's way better these days :)

Between those two options, Peter's is definitely the better.

neatoman
03-21-2017, 11:13 AM
Yeah, Peter strikes me as a lot more open about his opinions.

d_osborn
03-21-2017, 12:02 PM
Nobody even knows who Kevin Eastman is besides people here.
Which just so happens to be the exact crowd I was referring to. :D

See above.

A rags/riches comic illustrator optimistically promotes children's shows/projects based on his creation. I don't see a fault in that at all. Apparently a few users here have never seen a late-night talk show. It's quite common, actually.

Shellington
03-21-2017, 12:35 PM
All the best, Mr Eastman. Please do not get discouraged by trolls.

Andrew NDB
03-21-2017, 12:48 PM
All the best, Mr Eastman. Please do not get discouraged by trolls.

Who are you talking to?

Vegita-San
03-21-2017, 01:30 PM
Who are you talking to?

yes men r us?


just a guess.....

we all have faults...kevin is no different.


like i said before, we should all be as open to new things...but constantly open regardless of quality is something a tad different..

d_osborn
03-21-2017, 02:33 PM
yes men r us?


just a guess.....

we all have faults...kevin is no different.


like i said before, we should all be as open to new things...but constantly open regardless of quality is something a tad different..
No one is forcing you to watch it, no one is forcing you to talk about it. I love Keaton's Batman, but I don't really pay attention to Bat Mite or Crazy Quilt ...and I sleep VERY well at night. ;)

TMNT was an independent comic/kid property from the 80s-- an area that isn't known for consistent quality throughout every licensed production. The proverbial "cool kid in a candy store comic nerd that struck it rich" Eastman gets excited about projects and promotes them. He gets paid, big shocker. This shouldn't be surprising anymore.

I think it's super cool he's opening up another channel of communication for fans.

ssjup81
03-21-2017, 04:06 PM
yes men r us?


just a guess.....

we all have faults...kevin is no different.


like i said before, we should all be as open to new things...but constantly open regardless of quality is something a tad different..How is being an optimist a fault? I like that he can find something good in everything, even if it's bad or enjoy it for what it is.

AquaParade
03-21-2017, 04:40 PM
I feel sorry for him. he genuinely thinks everyhing is great. no matter how bad it is. where as peter is kind of the opposite. everything needs to be perfect or done his way or else it's an abomination.

I kind of like peter's way better these days :)

Why feel bad though? It must be great to love any and every thing regardless of quality.

Poor Peter seems to get all hung up on it. For the benefit of the property, but still.

***First of Two Latin Kings***
03-21-2017, 09:29 PM
I never thought we'd live in a world where 50-60+ year old men start youtube channels and social media accounts. These people didn't even grow up with the internet when they were younger, it didn't even exist till they were like 35 or so.

His wife is younger than we are, CC.

Wildcat
03-22-2017, 12:09 AM
How is being an optimist a fault? I like that he can find something good in everything, even if it's bad or enjoy it for what it is.I agree with this.

I don't really follow Kevin or Peter but every time he's brought up people say he likes everything and will promote anything. Like all he cares about is having more TMNT?

I'm sure he does not like everything. He probably doesn't see a need to trash or bad mouth things.

Besides if you sell a franchise you're not in the best position to complain about what others do to it.

Vegita-San
03-22-2017, 06:58 AM
How is being an optimist a fault? I like that he can find something good in everything, even if it's bad or enjoy it for what it is.

being blind to bad quality isn't all that great.

didn't he compare bay turtles to avengers at one point?


I understand he was probably contractually obligated to promote the thing somehow....since i think he had a small part in it. but still..

***First of Two Latin Kings***
03-22-2017, 07:12 AM
Kevin is just a conundrum to me. He seems really scattered these days-- I remember reading an interview where he referred to Karai as being Shredder's daughter but in Mirage she wasn't. She was just a woman chosen to bring order to the New York Foot by the main branch of the clan in Japan. The daughter of Shredder motif wasn't used until the 4Kids show aired.

I remember another interview where Eastman blames the failure of Next Mutation on the toy line. If anything the toyline was one of the best things about Next Mutation.

His support of Leif Tilden passing off random bo staffs as legitimate movie props is also kind of... strange. Kevin has always been a promoter. At the end of the day, it's about money for him. He isn't nearly as knowledgeable with regards to the property he helped create as it's diehard fans are. Peter on the other hand seemed to just keep throwing more and more money at TMNT so that he could shape it how he wanted it. There's no doubt that this contributed to his burn out. I don't blame Eastman for taking a job as a consultant for Nick and IDW since they probably worship him like a god there. Peter is very opinionated and seems like he has to have everything his way so it isn't much of a surprise that they eventually parted ways.

Vegita-San
03-22-2017, 07:15 AM
yep.

i kind of wonder if they where always like that, or if one got that way because of the other.

kevin started being lax about everything and tried to be happy and positive with all the riggors of business driving people down..

where as peter went the opposite route and tried to take charge and control to try and keep things in order.

personally, at this stage i find peter's way worked better. we got 4 great years of tmnt with 4kids because of it, until playmates or someone tried to take control with fast forward.

Andrew NDB
03-22-2017, 10:15 AM
Kevin is just a conundrum to me. He seems really scattered these days-- I remember reading an interview where he referred to Karai as being Shredder's daughter but in Mirage she wasn't.

Didn't he say that in one of the IDW trades collecting City at War? I thought I'd read that.

She was just a woman chosen to bring order to the New York Foot by the main branch of the clan in Japan. The daughter of Shredder motif wasn't used until the 4Kids show aired.

Correct. Apparently having her be her own woman and Shredder's boss wasn't satisfactory... she had to be the underling and daughter of Shredder to "work" as a character.

I'm shocked more fans aren't upset about that, particularly female fans.

I remember another interview where Eastman blames the failure of Next Mutation on the toy line.

Weird.

yep.

i kind of wonder if they where always like that, or if one got that way because of the other.

kevin started being lax about everything and tried to be happy and positive with all the riggors of business driving people down..

where as peter went the opposite route and tried to take charge and control to try and keep things in order.

personally, at this stage i find peter's way worked better. we got 4 great years of tmnt with 4kids because of it, until playmates or someone tried to take control with fast forward.

No matter how you look at it, the decisions made for NT:TNM caused the rift one way or another.

NT:TNM: Kevin saying, "Let's try it my way." While Peter sat quietly in the corner.
4Kids: Peter saying, "Well that didn't work, and why would it? Let's try it my way... and by the way, Kevin, let me buy out your half of the damn TMNT rights while I'm at it."

ToTheNines
03-22-2017, 10:36 AM
I'm shocked more fans aren't upset about that, particularly female fans.

It drives me nuts, personally.

Especially since Saki's actual daughter is a completely different character that everyone seems to forget.

CyberCubed
03-22-2017, 11:14 AM
His wife is younger than we are, CC.

You mean his wife is in her 20's? What?

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-22-2017, 11:17 AM
It drives me nuts, personally.

Especially since Saki's actual daughter is a completely different character that everyone seems to forget.

We few, the faithful, still remember.

#OrokuPimiko

***First of Two Latin Kings***
03-22-2017, 11:20 AM
You mean his wife is in her 20's? What?

You don't know who Courtney Eastman is?

AquaParade
03-22-2017, 11:22 AM
Karai had such a great entrance in City at War. I liked the dynamic it set up within the Foot Clan across the globe.

Shame they haven't integrated that back into her character.

Andrew NDB
03-22-2017, 11:24 AM
Karai had such a great entrance in City at War. I liked the dynamic it set up within the Foot Clan across the globe.

Shame they haven't integrated that back into her character.

Nope, it's always either daughter of Shredder, or FAKE daughter of Shredder. But always clearly lesser than Shredder, his underling and fundamentally connected to him in some way.

***First of Two Latin Kings***
03-22-2017, 11:31 AM
You mean his wife is in her 20's? What?


I take that back-- she's almost 31. Still younger than many of us, and she was still in her twenties when she married him four years ago.

Andrew NDB
03-22-2017, 11:37 AM
Is it just me or -- and I don't mean this in a bad way -- as Kevin gets older, more and more he begins to resemble... Peter Laird?

CyberCubed
03-22-2017, 11:42 AM
I take that back-- she's almost 31. Still younger than many of us, and she was still in her twenties when she married him four years ago.

And Kevin is almost 60 now, right? So basically he married a golddigger? I mean there's no reason a woman would marry a guy 30 years older than her if she wasn't in it for the money, especially since Eastman is a millionaire.

Andrew NDB
03-22-2017, 11:56 AM
And Kevin is almost 60 now, right? So basically he married a golddigger? I mean there's no reason a woman would marry a guy 30 years older than her if she wasn't in it for the money, especially since Eastman is a millionaire.

He seems like a pretty fun guy. And maybe she was a TMNT fan growing up, too, who knows.

Vegita-San
03-22-2017, 12:00 PM
cubes on a roll of perpetual thought weirdness today.

AquaParade
03-22-2017, 12:07 PM
Hard to judge the reasons people enter a relationship.

Honestly, is marrying someone for money any worse than marrying them for their tits or perfect jawline?

Everyone has their reasons, superficial or otherwise.

ProphetofGanja
03-22-2017, 12:46 PM
Hard to judge the reasons people enter a relationship.

Honestly, is marrying someone for money any worse than marrying them for their tits or perfect jawline?

Everyone has their reasons, superficial or otherwise.

None of those are good reasons for marrying someone.

That said though, different strokes for different folks.

I can't imagine dating or marrying anyone significantly older or younger than me tho

AquaParade
03-22-2017, 01:00 PM
None of those are good reasons for marrying someone.

That said though, different strokes for different folks.

I can't imagine dating or marrying anyone significantly older or younger than me tho

I probably wouldn't argue they are good reasons, but it's not like factors of such nature don't come into play with relationships.
People generally don't like dating broke people, and they generally won't hit on you unless they are physically attracted.

So while those might not be the explicit reasons people fall into marriage, it certainly can be. Or at least pave the way. We're all only human.

d_osborn
03-22-2017, 01:25 PM
I'm still dumbfounded by the lack of familiarity for shameless self-promoters around here. It's not exactly a new concept.

And Kevin is almost 60 now, right? So basically he married a golddigger? I mean there's no reason a woman would marry a guy 30 years older than her if she wasn't in it for the money, especially since Eastman is a millionaire.
Wow. :roll: For as cool as Eastman has been with the fanbase, they don't deserve this kind of trash.

CyberCubed
03-22-2017, 01:33 PM
You would marry someone with a 30 year age difference? Really?

d_osborn
03-22-2017, 01:54 PM
You would marry someone with a 30 year age difference? Really?
If the connection is there, absolutely. What I wouldn't do is openly question someone's marriage in an open, public forum. Have some tact, dude.

Ceres
03-22-2017, 01:56 PM
You would marry someone with a 30 year age difference? Really?

Why not, if love is there from both parties who the hell cares. Free Country, this concept should be known especially to you americans :P

Vegita-San
03-22-2017, 02:07 PM
He seems like a pretty fun guy. And maybe she was a TMNT fan growing up, too, who knows.

yep. plus, it's not on us to trash a guys marriage.

ToTheNines
03-22-2017, 03:21 PM
Wow. :roll: For as cool as Eastman has been with the fanbase, they don't deserve this kind of trash.

He's a troll. He said much worse when Stan Sakai remarried.

ssjup81
03-22-2017, 06:22 PM
And Kevin is almost 60 now, right? So basically he married a golddigger? I mean there's no reason a woman would marry a guy 30 years older than her if she wasn't in it for the money, especially since Eastman is a millionaire.My grandmother and her second husband was 20 years apart. Her first husband was 10 years older.

pferreira
03-23-2017, 10:14 AM
How is being an optimist a fault? I like that he can find something good in everything, even if it's bad or enjoy it for what it is.That's a good point. There's nothing wrong to finding the good in everything.

I remember another interview where Eastman blames the failure of Next Mutation on the toy line.But the show was a ratings success so what are you talking about? :trolleye:

ssjup81
03-23-2017, 04:38 PM
being blind to bad quality isn't all that great.

didn't he compare bay turtles to avengers at one point?


I understand he was probably contractually obligated to promote the thing somehow....since i think he had a small part in it. but still..I thought the third turtles film was bad, but I can still find good points about it and focus on that. That's how I view Kevin.

You would marry someone with a 30 year age difference? Really?Me personally, no. Big no.

Xav
03-23-2017, 04:59 PM
Nope, it's always either daughter of Shredder, or FAKE daughter of Shredder. But always clearly lesser than Shredder, his underling and fundamentally connected to him in some way.What about the 2007 film? She wasn't related to Shredder in that.
And Kevin is almost 60 now, right? So basically he married a golddigger? I mean there's no reason a woman would marry a guy 30 years older than her if she wasn't in it for the money, especially since Eastman is a millionaire.Kevin is 54, is wife is 24 years younger than him.

***First of Two Latin Kings***
03-23-2017, 05:15 PM
Is it just me or -- and I don't mean this in a bad way -- as Kevin gets older, more and more he begins to resemble... Peter Laird?

How so?

I was in no way passing judgment. I was just making the point that he'd be more likely to be aware of Podcasts, Instagram, etc. now that he is married to someone who grew up in the Digital Age.

Andrew NDB
03-23-2017, 05:22 PM
What about the 2007 film? She wasn't related to Shredder in that.

We don't know either way on that. But she's clearly intended to be younger than him, and spoke of him as if that had been her boss... had they got a sequel she almost assuredly would have been his daughter.

How so?

In the face.

myconius
03-23-2017, 06:54 PM
And Kevin is almost 60 now, right? So basically he married a golddigger? I mean there's no reason a woman would marry a guy 30 years older than her if she wasn't in it for the money, especially since Eastman is a millionaire.

i gotta say, that's a pretty harsh assumption man.
i've met them both together at a few conventions. from what i've see they both looked really happy together.
sure there's only so much you can gather from just a brief encounter, but their chemistry felt genuine to me.

Konchadunga
03-24-2017, 04:52 PM
Correct. Apparently having her be her own woman and Shredder's boss wasn't satisfactory... she had to be the underling and daughter of Shredder to "work" as a character.

I'm shocked more fans aren't upset about that, particularly female fans.

That sucks and all, but I get the feeling their hands were tied against a more faithful adaptation. The Mirage version of Karai was willing to kill and fighting for dominance of the Foot clan, rather than justice, although she agreed to move them in a direction less menacing to the Turtles. I doubt there's any way the creators of children's cartoons would let that through. A children's cartoon character can be a morally gray wildcard who alternately works with heroes or villains depending on the situation, but she isn't allowed to be permanent protagonists while holding on to a willingness to get her hands dirty. So for Karai adaptations, she either has to become morally upstanding or keep backsliding into outright villainy.

I'd say the same moral dogma has a lot to do with why adaptations demote Karai from her own agent to something of a Talia Al-Ghoul ripoff. With any powerful female character in any show intended for children, there is going to be a social subtext that she's a role-model, which for show-runners, mandates being a good role-model--"good" being, of-course, the preachy and quixotic definition favored by such finger-waggers. Thus I think they feel they can't allow Karai to have a congenital "dark" side. If she's unduly loyal to bad people, or she's too trigger-happy, or too violent, etc, they always feel the need to put in a subtext that it was her upbringing that made her so. Again, all this really sucks, but I think it's the likely explanation.

Now back to Eastman, there's something to be said for being a pragmatist open to considering other people's desires with one's work. The problem is he seems to make no distinction between audience desires and those of people in higher places, which in many cases cross the line from desires into the sort of stupefying mandates I described above. He also seems to hold onto the delusion that you can please all of the people all of the time. In my experience, people who try to cater everybody end up catering to nobody. Granted; I don't think the whole brand has failed since Laird stepped down and Eastman stepped back up, but it's hard to attribute any of its successes to him, either. By contrast, while I find Peter Laird a frequently unpleasant and nitpicky personality, I'd definitely credit to him most of the better ideas that affected TMNT in the 2000s, and it's likely no coincidence that when he turned his focus to the 2007 movie is about when the 4Kids show got a lot stupider.

Andrew NDB
03-24-2017, 09:22 PM
That sucks and all, but I get the feeling their hands were tied against a more faithful adaptation.

I don't think so... Peter Laird had pretty much total control of the situation at 4Kids (which is where the Shredder's daughter rubbish started). If he wanted Karai to remain Shredder's boss like the comics, he could've.

TigerClaw
03-24-2017, 09:38 PM
I don't think so... Peter Laird had pretty much total control of the situation at 4Kids (which is where the Shredder's daughter rubbish started). If he wanted Karai to remain Shredder's boss like the comics, he could've.
Let's not forget that Peter Laird was responsible for making the Shredder an alien in the 4Kids series, Just saying.

Andrew NDB
03-24-2017, 09:49 PM
Let's not forget that Peter Laird was responsible for making the Shredder an alien in the 4Kids series, Just saying.

I feel like these are the sort of things that creep into TMNT when you remove the Eastman side of the equation. You remove either opposing force (either Kevin or Peter), it becomes... strange. Interesting, but strange.

myconius
03-24-2017, 09:57 PM
the early comics (non-guest era) ranging 1 thru 21 and the micro-series will always be my favorites.

48 thru 62 were excellent, but the really early stuff was pure magic.

Konchadunga
03-25-2017, 01:21 AM
Anyone have a source to prove Ch'rel was Laird's idea? Even if it was, I get the feeling it was less an idea he pulled out of the blue and more something he came up with once there was a mandate that Shredder had to be an arch-nemesis because every past incarnation but TNM made him one, so he did what he could to make Shredder someone who could keep coming back and make sense doing so. At least, that is what I want to believe.

At any rate, it is quite a bit of an oversimplification to declare Laird had complete control in that era. Mandates from the TV powers that be still were a factor; even if we wish they weren't. Laird likely had complete control of the Mirage series, and probably was in a position to say to 4Kids, "You're either going to make a cartoon like this, or you're not going to make a cartoon", but that choice was the extent of it all, and of course, Laird wasn't the only one who could say "You're not going to make a cartoon". If Laird wanted to put a graphic sex scene in a Mirage story, he could. If he wanted to put one in an episode of the 4Kids show, and said that if they didn't, he wouldn't cooperate, well, that would have been the end of the 4Kids show. They'd have let that bridge burn. Laird could always have decided they no longer had permission to make a show based on his properties, and they could always have decided they would no longer agree to make a show based on his properties. It lasted a while without coming to that, but it might well have.

My point here is that there was an inevitable point past which the threat of "if that's the case, the show is over", by either party, wouldn't halt a decision. Obviously it wasn't actually a matter of a graphic sex scene in a 4Kids show (At least not so far as I know!) but there could very well have been other things that were ruled unfit for children's TV. An ally of the protagonists whose main goal is to murder her way to the top of a criminal syndicate could very well be one of them. So while Laird could have opted to kill off the whole show if he asked 4Kids to adapt Karai correctly and they said no, or in a less extreme form of the same policy, just removed Karai from any involvement whatsoever, he would not have been able to override certain people who forbade a Mirage-accurate Karai. Retaliate, yes, but not override them.

Edit: This is all reminding me of how much I hated how the 4Kids show seemed to have a draconian rule that nobody could manage to finish a sentence that would have ended with the word, "dead". That was the case even in the better seasons, which pushed the envelope of what might have been acceptable in children's TV. A lot of people rip on the 4Kids show's overuse of "What the shell" as it's annoying memetic equivalent of "Cowabunga". Not me; I was too busy hating on this namby-pamby ********!

Utrommaniac
03-25-2017, 01:55 AM
Apparently having her be her own woman and Shredder's boss wasn't satisfactory... she had to be the underling and daughter of Shredder to "work" as a character.

I'm shocked more fans aren't upset about that, particularly female fans.

I think it adds a touch that's far more personal to Karai.
Granted...I'm the person developing a take where Karai is Oroku Saki's wife...and give the 4Kids/Nick treatment of Karai to Pimiko/Himiko (how I'd be spelling it, I've struggled to find other places where it was done the other way).

***First of Two Latin Kings***
03-25-2017, 04:18 AM
I read an interview where Laird said that the idea to make Shredder an Utrom was one they had fairly early on in the development of the show, and that he and the other people working on the show were mutually excited about it.

All they had to do was give us another character to compete with Yoshi for Tang Shen's love, which they did.

neatoman
03-25-2017, 06:57 AM
Correct. Apparently having her be her own woman and Shredder's boss wasn't satisfactory... she had to be the underling and daughter of Shredder to "work" as a character.

Well, to be fair, it's implied Shredder was ignoring her authority. So she wasn't effectivey his boss anyway.

ToTheNines
03-25-2017, 07:38 AM
I think she was. He just pulled in enough money that she looked the other way.

dragonside
03-25-2017, 09:50 AM
I like to see it as..

Eras

I think each side having equal control, to single control (each getting a turn).. and then... it being passed off. Not sure what the future holds, but here's hoping to another 25 awesome years. I'll probably be close to retirement.


The way I see it is.. it will become like Superman and Batman (and all the other heroes). The fans will keep it alive.

Konchadunga
03-25-2017, 12:44 PM
I read an interview where Laird said that the idea to make Shredder an Utrom was one they had fairly early on in the development of the show, and that he and the other people working on the show were mutually excited about it.

All they had to do was give us another character to compete with Yoshi for Tang Shen's love, which they did.

Do you have a link to that interview?

neatoman
03-25-2017, 12:47 PM
I think she was. He just pulled in enough money that she looked the other way.

Karai: Saki, we need to talk about how you murdered Hamato Yoshi, his family might not take kindly to this...

(Shredder dumps a briefcase of money on her desk)

Karai: Alright then, don't worry about that but we still need to talk about your drug trade, it could really...

(Shredder adds two more briefcases)

Karai: ... Fine, OK, what's a few more drug lords am I right? However, this magic flatworm resurrection project your men are working on, you're really going to screw up the chain of command if you continue to...

(Shredder whistles, a dump truck of money comes in)

Karai: I didn't say anything, keep the funds flowing dude!

I feel like these are the sort of things that creep into TMNT when you remove the Eastman side of the equation. You remove either opposing force (either Kevin or Peter), it becomes... strange. Interesting, but strange.

So wait, what's your opinion on the Utrom Shredder?

Rooish
03-25-2017, 01:21 PM
I agree the two are best when they balance each other out.

Individually, however, each was involved in two really good aspects of the TMNT franchise: the 2003 series and the IDW comics. So each has his strengths.

CyberCubed
03-25-2017, 07:11 PM
Individually, however, each was involved in two really good aspects of the TMNT franchise: the 2003 series and the IDW comics. So each has his strengths.

Kevin barely has much input on IDW TMNT though. All the main story plots and direction come from Tom Waltz, Bobby, and some of the other recurring writers.

Andrew NDB
03-25-2017, 07:19 PM
So wait, what's your opinion on the Utrom Shredder?

Conceptually not a bad idea. Though the actual character of Ch'rell was fairly nonsensical. He what, wants to rule the universe? Do evil things just for evil's sake? Dumb.

ToTheNines
03-25-2017, 07:21 PM
He was a warlord. Perhaps he wanted to get... "like, stupid rich".

ssjup81
03-25-2017, 07:23 PM
He was a warlord. Perhaps he wanted to get... "like, stupid rich".:lol: Very nice one.

neatoman
03-26-2017, 03:59 AM
Conceptually not a bad idea. Though the actual character of Ch'rell was fairly nonsensical. He what, wants to rule the universe? Do evil things just for evil's sake? Dumb.

I can't really argue against to be honest, it would have been nice if there was more to him than wanting to rule the universe just because.

The reason I don't mind it so much however, is that the alternatives seem to be:


"I really hate this guy I killed two decades ago"
"I'm back from the dead and now I hate his pet rat for sending mutant turtles to kill me"
"Fools! I will take over the world with a fake pizzeria!"
"I'm a walking continuity error due to Murphy making this crap up as he goes along!"
"I killed Hamato Yoshi, this time for a far less justifiable reason and run an arcade that doubles as a recruitment center"
"My evil was erased and now I'm a useless hobo"
"I hate Hamato Yoshi again but this time I do so based on delusion rather than anything he actually did, so there's literally no reason at all to sympathise for me, I'm just crazy scumbag who can't set my priorities straight. At least he's alive this time, makes my motivation less stretched."
"Veek-To-Ree and riches"


If that's basically all that's been done with the Shredder over the course of 33 years, then you might as well make him evil for the sake of being evil.

Candy Kappa
03-26-2017, 04:25 AM
Correct. Apparently having her be her own woman and Shredder's boss wasn't satisfactory... she had to be the underling and daughter of Shredder to "work" as a character.

I'm shocked more fans aren't upset about that, particularly female fans.

Never been a fan of Daughter!Karai, it's one of the dumbest changes of a character that's been done in the whole franchise.

ToTheNines
03-26-2017, 05:12 AM
:lol: Very nice one.

Haha, couldn't help myself.

On a real note, while Ch'rell probably had some paper-thin reason for being a warlord/conqueror, his main objective was revenge on the Utrom, who he felt had wrongly imprisoned him.


Never been a fan of Daughter!Karai, it's one of the dumbest changes of a character that's been done in the whole franchise.

It made a degree of sense with 4kids, since they made him an Utrom and he'd been leader of the Foot for like 600 years. But I hate how that's just become her default defining trait in every version since.

neatoman
03-26-2017, 05:34 AM
It made a degree of sense with 4kids, since they made him an Utrom and he'd been leader of the Foot for like 600 years. But I hate how that's just become her default defining trait in every version since.

It seems to me that most of the Mirage elements that didn't make it into the FW cartoon or the movies (which are a lot of them) and are still being used have pretty much been filtered through the 4kids cartoon, rather than anyone going back the comics themselves for inspiration. Granted you won't really notice for, let's say the Fugitoid or Renet, but other will be obvious.

Karai? 4Kids version is the basis for every version of her aside from maybe the 2007 movie. Purple Dragons? Always led by Hun. And bring it up if anyone ever uses characters like Gosei Hattori or Radical ever again.

Rooish
03-26-2017, 10:36 AM
As a Female Fan, I think Karai as Shredder's boss/elder worked in the City at War context, when Shredder was dead. She was a super cool character and a welcome contrast to April, who was floundering around hard at that point.

Her as Shredder's daughter creates another interesting character. Not the same character at all, but an interesting one nonetheless as she has to be kind of tortured, torn between her father and her better judgement.

Not a fan, however, of her being a Turtle's sister, a Turtle's love interest, or a snake mutant. Her and Shinigami's bromance makes up for this all however. ;)

Konchadunga
03-27-2017, 03:03 PM
Conceptually not a bad idea. Though the actual character of Ch'rell was fairly nonsensical. He what, wants to rule the universe? Do evil things just for evil's sake? Dumb.

I share that sentiment, but for me the 4Kids show (not just limiting it to Ch'rel) had another big problem; it spun the Shredder as a concept into flat-out Mary-Sue territory. Worse even than Venus De Milo, I'd argue, because at least the damage she caused was fixed, but we're still living with what 4Kids Shredder inflicted. The problem wasn't just Alien Shredder; it was Karai Shredder, Demon Shredder, Cyber Shredder (Barf!) and they'd have probably kept adding more if the show kept going. Ch'rel was ultimately a Deus Ex machinca to make it so Shredder could keep coming back, and even when he was finally defeated, some other version of Shredder came in to take his place. A more Mirage-accurate cartoon with wide distribution should have been the perfect place to prove (or at least, try to prove) that a TMNT series can sustain itself without Shredder as the perpetual Big Bad, and they failed to do so, which means by extension, probably every new incarnation to come after, short of a highly unlikely one that tries to be even more Mirage-accurate, will remain haunted by that failure.

Shell; that's already looking to be provable in the current cartoon. Now in its fifth and supposedly final season, we initially thought we were getting a new, more menacing villain in Carvaxas, and what does he do as one of his first orders of business? Plots to revive Shredder. He'll probably succeed. When he does, Shredder will probably resume control. Everyone up-to-and-including aliens and demons bow to the pandering mandate of keeping Shredder the central conceptual figure of conflict in TMNT shows. Perhaps you can lay this originally at the feet of the Fred Wolf show, but if Laird and his allies had just elected to halt that trend along with many others when they had the chance, this wouldn't be a problem. They didn't, though, so it is.

CyberCubed
03-27-2017, 03:36 PM
I share that sentiment, but for me the 4Kids show (not just limiting it to Ch'rel) had another big problem; it spun the Shredder as a concept into flat-out Mary-Sue territory. Worse even than Venus De Milo, I'd argue, because at least the damage she caused was fixed, but we're still living with what 4Kids Shredder inflicted. The problem wasn't just Alien Shredder; it was Karai Shredder, Demon Shredder, Cyber Shredder (Barf!) and they'd have probably kept adding more if the show kept going. Ch'rel was ultimately a Deus Ex machinca to make it so Shredder could keep coming back, and even when he was finally defeated, some other version of Shredder came in to take his place. A more Mirage-accurate cartoon with wide distribution should have been the perfect place to prove (or at least, try to prove) that a TMNT series can sustain itself without Shredder as the perpetual Big Bad, and they failed to do so, which means by extension, probably every new incarnation to come after, short of a highly unlikely one that tries to be even more Mirage-accurate, will remain haunted by that failure.


Shredder being a real human in 4kids made a lot of sense, and Ch'rell being an imposter made sense. Demon Shredder worked fine.

I agree Viral didn't have to become Cyber Shredder, but it was the last season and BTTS wasn't going to be particular great to begin with.

Coola Yagami
03-27-2017, 11:31 PM
This whole discussion about mirage karai reminded me that somewhere in Japan is the true leader of the foot clan, who has never had any problem or reason to actually seek out and destroy the turtles. It just goes to show that while the turtles have caused trouble for the new York foot, they really did nothing in the bigger picture.

Sure they had no reason to go beyond Saki's branch but it's interesting to know the true foot clan continues to flourish in Japan despite Saki and Karai's American antics.

TheCanadiandrome
03-29-2017, 11:36 PM
Subbed. Looks like a cool channel

TigerClaw
03-30-2017, 08:35 AM
He posted a new video 5 days ago, It's a news report about a TMNT exhibit.

S03130yi7DM

Konchadunga
04-10-2017, 09:15 PM
Shredder being a real human in 4kids made a lot of sense, and Ch'rell being an imposter made sense. Demon Shredder worked fine.

I agree Viral didn't have to become Cyber Shredder, but it was the last season and BTTS wasn't going to be particular great to begin with.

I'm sorry, but to me the Ninja Tribunal is the lowest point in the whole series, so I can't agree about Human/Demon Shredder.

However, even if I had liked them, I wouldn't retreat from my principle that putting so much attention on one character or simply variations of that character was not a good thing. It is possible to imagine an incarnation of TMNT that wrote Venus in such a way that I'd accept her, but even if she was entertaining, I'd still call bull if she hogged the spotlight from the other turtles. I can't remember any TMNT incarnation where I didn't like Usagi's appearances, but if Usagi was promoted all the way up to being the central character in them I'd call bull on that, too.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 09:36 PM
I'm sorry, but to me the Ninja Tribunal is the lowest point in the whole series, so I can't agree about Human/Demon Shredder.

However, even if I had liked them, I wouldn't retreat from my principle that putting so much attention on one character or simply variations of that character was not a good thing.

Human/Demon Shredder was everything the show was building up upon. It also makes a lot of sense and fit in well with the backstory in the 2k3 cartoon. I also thought the season itself was great, even with all the magic powers, because it tied everything in altogether.

Shredder was also gone for all of Season 4, (unless you count Karai in his armor), so his return in Season 5 had at least a 26 episode gap from the Season 3 finale.

Konchadunga
04-15-2017, 05:27 PM
How is being an optimist a fault? I like that he can find something good in everything, even if it's bad or enjoy it for what it is.

I think it's Eastman's particular circumstances that earn him a lot of the criticism he gets. Usually when people talk about the advantages of being an optimist, they're talking about scenarios where the cards people are dealt are largely beyond their control, and their only choice is between making the best of them or resenting them. Chances are that these are, in fact, Eastman's circumstances nowadays, but when he not only acts like he's in high positions of authority but other people in high positions of authority act like he is, inevitably people are going to conclude that he's just a gratuitous yes-man. That is, gratuitous on the assumption he has any real influence. If he doesn't, well, he should at least stop pretending, but if he does, then it's perfectly reasonable to wish he had more of an apparent vision for his series.

The job of people in control of something shouldn't be to see the good things in it; it should be to put the good things in it, and that requires having an attitude that there aren't enough good things in it yet. Eastman never seems to have any of that attitude, which again, either means that since he was at Mirage, he hasn't really had any real influence, or he does, but wastes it. I can't think of any time in recent memory I've heard him say anything like "Michael Bay wanted to do A, but I persuaded him to do B". He'll say he was an advisor and he signed off on things, but doesn't provide details.

Eastman's apparent lack of both ideas of his own, and criticism of other people's ideas, is why so many people are skeptical of him. Peter Laird has various opinions of various things. David Wise has various opinions of various things. Inevitably, some people won't share their opinions, but they don't have to for those opinions to be useful in deciding how much to listen to them to determine, say, if they should buy a movie ticket. When Peter Laird says he doesn't think highly of the Fred Wolf series, at least Fred Wolf fans can opt not to consider his opinions to have much merit in deciding that. When David Wise says he doesn't think highly of the Mirage series, at least Mirage fans can opt not to consider his opinions to have much merit in deciding that.

Kevin Eastman has essentially one opinion for everything turtles-related these days: It's good. Not even "I can see something good in it, and it is _____"; just "It's good". An opinion that is useless to everyone, because unlike almost every TMNT fan, he never defines what his idea of a bad turtles-related thing is. Unlike Laird and Wise, Eastman's vague statements actually have the ability to bring Mirage fans and Fred Wolf fans to full agreement that "This man's opinions aren't credible", in the same way a jar of sauce with its label missing can bring a person who loves meat and a vegan to full agreement that "I'm not sure if I want to eat this".

Also, as distasteful as it might be to say this about such a nice-seeming person, as someone who generally loves listening to interviews with content creators about how they created their content, I must say I find Kevin Eastman to be an incredibly dull person to listen to getting interviewed about such things. I think a lot of this is, again, he never tells any stories of how he had a certain idea and came to blows with someone who had a conflicting idea. Peter Laird could tell those sorts of stories. J Michael Stracynski has plenty of them to share about his time running The Real Ghostbusters. Lauren Faust and Bonnie Zacharle have both told them about how they had trouble wrestling and compromising with rivals over the direction of My Little Pony. I don't remember any of such stories in Eastman's statements, and this just earns him more skepticism, because quite self-evidently, the ability to tell a good story is necessary for someone who's creating and/or approving (it still isn't really clear which) works of fiction, and they should understand that good stories have conflict. They should understand that conflicting ideas and goals cause conflict. I'm not implying Eastman doesn't actually understand these things, but he comes off so constantly like he's trying to walk through a minefield that listening to his thoughts on things feels like a big waste of time. I'm not about to denigrate him overwhelmingly for being an optimist when no less a figure than Peter Laird has candidly blamed his decade of obsessing over quality control for making him a more bitter man, but nor will I denigrate his skeptics or stand idly by while others denigrate them, because those skeptics have a point.

pferreira
04-20-2017, 08:32 AM
I think it's Eastman's particular circumstances that earn him a lot of the criticism he gets. Usually when people talk about the advantages of being an optimist, they're talking about scenarios where the cards people are dealt are largely beyond their control, and their only choice is between making the best of them or resenting them. Chances are that these are, in fact, Eastman's circumstances nowadays, but when he not only acts like he's in high positions of authority but other people in high positions of authority act like he is, inevitably people are going to conclude that he's just a gratuitous yes-man. That is, gratuitous on the assumption he has any real influence. If he doesn't, well, he should at least stop pretending, but if he does, then it's perfectly reasonable to wish he had more of an apparent vision for his series. I think the point the user you were responding to was making is that you can't go through life being cynical about everything. Sure I agree there's room for improvement but every iteration of the Turtles has something interesting to recommend it.

ssjup81
04-20-2017, 03:35 PM
I think the point the user you were responding to was making is that you can't go through life being cynical about everything. Sure I agree there's room for improvement but every iteration of the Turtles has something interesting to recommend it.Yeah, this pretty much. This is what I meant.

Vegita-San
04-20-2017, 03:53 PM
I think the point the user you were responding to was making is that you can't go through life being cynical about everything. Sure I agree there's room for improvement but every iteration of the Turtles has something interesting to recommend it.

I find that if more people where cynical, we'd get less platinum dunes and next mutations, and more 4 kids ;o).

Is there really one likeable thing about bay turtles you can recommend with a straight face? :)

Or the Sing along Videos with turtles that had Bahamian accents IIRC? :)

Face it.. some things are best left not tried. while others, have enough merit that the few things wrong with it can either be over looked or given time to improve.

Utrommaniac
04-20-2017, 04:12 PM
I share that sentiment, but for me the 4Kids show (not just limiting it to Ch'rel) had another big problem; it spun the Shredder as a concept into flat-out Mary-Sue territory. Worse even than Venus De Milo, I'd argue, because at least the damage she caused was fixed, but we're still living with what 4Kids Shredder inflicted. The problem wasn't just Alien Shredder; it was Karai Shredder, Demon Shredder, Cyber Shredder (Barf!) and they'd have probably kept adding more if the show kept going. Ch'rel was ultimately a Deus Ex machinca to make it so Shredder could keep coming back, and even when he was finally defeated, some other version of Shredder came in to take his place. A more Mirage-accurate cartoon with wide distribution should have been the perfect place to prove (or at least, try to prove) that a TMNT series can sustain itself without Shredder as the perpetual Big Bad, and they failed to do so, which means by extension, probably every new incarnation to come after, short of a highly unlikely one that tries to be even more Mirage-accurate, will remain haunted by that failure.

There are a lot of things that could have made Ch'rell a better antagonist. The idea of him works in theory, but not in practice, especially when we didn't learn his origin story. An Utrom who took on the role of Shredder could work, but it went about all wrong.

Heck, a non-Krang Utrom as a "major antagonist" could work beautifully considering how intimately tied the Utroms are to the turtles origin.
Maybe Ch'rell was driving the truck with the mutagen was trying to create a PR Nightmare by causing major injuries and expose TCRI for what it really was. Likely out of spite, and having a thought as to how humans would respond to aliens in their midst - and in a post-9/11 world at that. And when that didn't work out, he zips off away from the other Utroms, assassinates Oroku Saki and takes his place...for reasons???
Following that, he goes after Hamato Yoshi, as he had been the leader of the Utrom Guardians and thought there would be vulnerable with his absence, and ends up in such a great heat of the moment that he forgets he'd have a successor. He might be smart, but his hastiness would drag him down.
Afterwards, he discovers Karai and empathizes with her being abandoned at a young age, as had been his fate.
My thinking cap isn't totally on, so some of those ideas might be rusty.

There's a lot of things in there that could be fixed.

Konchadunga
04-21-2017, 12:26 AM
I find that if more people where cynical, we'd get less platinum dunes and next mutations, and more 4 kids ;o).

Is there really one likeable thing about bay turtles you can recommend with a straight face? :)


There is, actually: The combat. Or, likable isn't exactly the best word since not only is that subjective, but what I brought up is also unpleasant, but stll, if what you were asking about is wht solid and warranted innovation it brings to the brand, I still say PD's combat is because it's probably the most painful and lethal-looking TMNT fighting gets outside of Mirage.

The choreography in the Jim Henson films is very impressive from an athletic standpoint, but if I'm going to be perfectly honest it's a bit too pretty and fluid for me to take seriously the notion that there's a high-stakes good-vs-evil battle going on; instead of a gymnastics exhibition. It doesn't help that the Turtles are constantly grinning and quipping while they do it; as if they never think there's any chance they'll lose. By contrast, I find PD's combat to be ugly, but in a compelling way. The actual guns, the probable bone-breaking, the characters slamming each other against things, and finally, the Turtles' ability to recognize that all actually means something bad.