What's the worst TMNT you can imagine?

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

We have a lot of threads about people's "ideal" version of TMNT that they would create if they were in charge. But, what about the opposite?

If for some reason you just wanted to tank TMNT with the worst version ever (TV show, comic, or movie), what would it be like?

I'll have to give it some thought myself, but I'd love to see what everyone comes up with.

Two ground rules...

1. It still has to have most of the "fundamentals" in place and be recognizable as TMNT in some form.

2. Don't just point to an already existing version of TMNT that you don't like and say "that". Be creative, and remember you're trying to top (or bottom or whatever) that version for "worst TMNT ever!"

[Jephael]

I dunno if it's still out there, but once upon a time there was a short series of YouTube videos where each of the Turtles went their separate ways and kinda became their worst selves. Mikey wound up in some halfway house kind of establishment with a bunch of drug addicts; Leonardo tried to live a normal human life and got some office job where people would pick on him behind his back for looking so strange. I believe he was even married to April in this version (there were a lot of Leo/April shippers back then). Donatello meanwhile became a nerd blogger who would go on about his favorite anime (sound familiar, Cubed?) Finally Raphael was pretty much a loner who still went around looking for trouble. Eventually they all came together after the tragic death of Master Splinter, and they get into a big fight over how they lost their way after splitting up. Then in comes their mortal enemy Oroku Saki who is now a woman. So yea, that for me pretty much sums up what the worst version of TMNT could be like.

Looking back I'm willing to bet the guy who wrote and created that mini-series was like mortified by how horrible it came out and took the videos down, hence why they can't be seen again. Even the costumes were horrible, it was just a bunch of guys wearing green face paint and color coded bandannas, or in Leonardo's case a really terrible human disguise. I do remember the "Lady Shredder" actress being pretty hot though. As far as I could tell she was 100% female in real life simply playing a transgendered Saki.

[Utrommaniac]

It's already happened. The Next Mutation/Music Tour brand of "make everyone Michelangelo and jokes of what pacifism is". The death rattles of Turtlemania in the 90's.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

The worst version of tmnt would be a combination of PD Michealangalo, Christmas special Leonardo, Coming out of their shells tour Raphael and TMNT 3 Donatello, with their Splinter being a hybrid of all 4 versions.

[snake]

PD is the worst. Atleast the christmas special and COOTS incarnations have entertainment value.

[Powder]

Platinum Dunes already made it.

& no I'm not trying to be funny.

[ProphetofGanja]

Platinum Dunes already made it.

& no I'm not trying to be funny.

It really is the worst; more obnoxious than the Fred Wolf show with butt-ugly turtles

[CyberCubed]

It really is the worst; more obnoxious than the Fred Wolf show with butt-ugly turtles

The Fred Wolf show was about tongue in cheek and sarcastic humor, it's nothing like the new movies.

[Cryomancer]

Platinum Dunes already made it.

& no I'm not trying to be funny.

The leaked script was worse. So much worse.

Probably the worst possible tmnt would somehow enforce the lessons "life is always great no matter what", "revenge is totally radical", and "adopted people aren't real family, only blood matters!"

[CyberCubed]

Just be thankful we dodged alien Turtles and a Shredder who was a white man. Jesus Christ.

The fact that Eric Sachs was originally intended to be Shredder makes my blood boil even more than Turtle nostrils. And that's saying a lot.

[ToTheNines]

It's already happened. The Next Mutation/Music Tour brand of "make everyone Michelangelo and jokes of what pacifism is". The death rattles of Turtlemania in the 90's.

Ha yeah... I have a soft spot for the Christmas one, and normally watch it each December, but Turtle Tunes was BAD.

I remember watching it with a friend when I was like 5. We gave it a chance for like 10 minutes, but once they started singing about not talking to strangers we started describing all the violent ways they should be dispatching that pedophile foot ninja.

Platinum Dunes already made it.

& no I'm not trying to be funny.

Hh.

TMNT went corporate a long time ago, but it still always maintained a degree of heart. Until Bayturtles.

Pretty sad to see Pete and Kevin's creation made into a soulless movie with zero respect paid to what it's all about.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Platinum Dunes Bayturtles, as other wise souls have previously observed.

There's the good and the bad elsewhere, but nothing as damned soulless as Bayturtles.

[MikeandRaph87]

Platinum Dunes Bayturtles, as other wise souls have previously observed.

There's the good and the bad elsewhere, but nothing as damned soulless as Bayturtles.

There is worse.Meld all the aspects that failed with Next Mutation with Image and it would cripple the franchise more than four plus years.

[ToTheNines]

Image was great.

[CyberCubed]

with Image and it would cripple the franchise more than four plus years.

Image sold so little that most people didn't even know it existed. It didn't cripple anything, we just wouldn't have gotten any TMNT comics at that time until PL revived it with Volume 4.

Volume 2 had already ended.

[Vegita-San]

Dune Bay Turtles was pretty bad.

Next Mutation was hampered by a few things, but at least with a proper budget, or a netflix methidology it could have been salvageable somehow if they got rid of venus and made it more like the movies.

the current nick series is pretty bad as well IMHO. a mish mash of ideas and nostalgia throw backs and just plain weirdness that never really lands anywhere.
but i guess it's not the worse thing we could have gotten.

Bay Turtles still holds that honor.

[Wildcat]

People just picking Bay Turtles for the sake of it. We all know it could be way worse.

To tank a cartoon I imagine something like Uncle Grandpa or even TTG! Just all around stupidity with no legitimate reason for existing. No story, no development just nonsense.

To tank a movie I imagine B-movie special effects. Little to no story. Nothing that can be taken seriously. I'm thinking something like Trolls 2 (not so bad it's good either).

I know someone is gonna say I just described Bay Turtles...oh ha ha :roll:

[CyberCubed]

the current nick series is pretty bad as well IMHO. a mish mash of ideas and nostalgia throw backs and just plain weirdness that never really lands anywhere..

Keep trollin' Vegita-San, keep trollin'

[Ninjinister]

http://www.miragelicensing.com/comics/mirage/volume01/color/cover360.jpg

[neatoman]

Terrible writing, bad direction and general incompetence is a given when it comes "the worst TMNT I can imagine". That would be the basis, anything else would just be something grinding against my personal preference.

With that out of the way, let's make a little list of what has been grinding against my personal preference before:

April as a newsreporter
Baxter Stockman as a fly
Any version of Bebop and Rocksteady aside from the IDW version and maybe the Nick version.
"The Kraang" instead of the Utroms
Hulk Turtles
People turning into animals because of animals ancestors
The Turtles running around in broad daylight through a crowded city
Pretending you can write an entire season about going to the future when it shouldn't take up more than five episodes at most
Adding another turtle to the team


So based on older material, the worst possible version I can imagine features big hulking turtles including Venus, who don't try to hide from society and mutated from humans because they had turtles as ancestors. The main villains would be the Kraang, a fly version of Stockman and Bebop/Rocksteady acting like the FW version and all of the latter three would have animals ancestors. The characters would spend way more time than needed in an exotic setting and April would report at the end of it.

[ToTheNines]

People just picking Bay Turtles for the sake of it. We all know it could be way worse.

To tank a cartoon I imagine something like Uncle Grandpa or even TTG! Just all around stupidity with no legitimate reason for existing. No story, no development just nonsense.

To tank a movie I imagine B-movie special effects. Little to no story. Nothing that can be taken seriously. I'm thinking something like Trolls 2 (not so bad it's good either).

I know someone is gonna say I just described Bay Turtles...oh ha ha :roll:

It was full of nonsense. No real reason for anyone to be a ninja, except maybe the mysterious Shredder, who had no actual feud with Splinter and would rather hire grunts than ninja. Oh wait, that's because he was added to the script 5 seconds before filming began and didn't actually belong in the stupid movie.

No one said "man, we could make a great TMNT movie". They said "hey, these Transformers movies make money, let's apply TMNT to that plus downhill snow fight".

[myconius]

Terrible writing, bad direction and general incompetence is a given when it comes "the worst TMNT I can imagine". That would be the basis, anything else would just be something grinding against my personal preference.

With that out of the way, let's make a little list of what has been grinding against my personal preference before:

April as a newsreporter
Baxter Stockman as a fly
Any version of Bebop and Rocksteady aside from the IDW version and maybe the Nick version.
"The Kraang" instead of the Utroms
Hulk Turtles
People turning into animals because of animals ancestors
The Turtles running around in broad daylight through a crowded city
Pretending you can write an entire season about going to the future when it shouldn't take up more than five episodes at most
Adding another turtle to the team


So based on older material, the worst possible version I can imagine features big hulking turtles including Venus, who don't try to hide from society and mutated from humans because they had turtles as ancestors. The main villains would be the Kraang, a fly version of Stockman and Bebop/Rocksteady acting like the FW version and all of the latter three would have animals ancestors. The characters would spend way more time than needed in an exotic setting and April would report at the end of it.

^ all very excellent points!!!

my own personal gripes i'd like to add


Buzz-Cut Officer Casey Jones
April being portrayed as a bubble headed bimbo
Donatello/April shipping
Any Turtle shipping
Turtles using yo-yo's and salami instead of their weapons
Leonardo not getting to use his Katanas

[Wesley]

I'd say the worst version of tmnt would be the Turtles not being the main focus, kinda like the way Sonic X focused more on Chris than Sonic himself.

[ToTheNines]

I'd say the worst version of tmnt would be the Turtles not being the main focus, kinda like the way Sonic X focused more on Chris than Sonic himself.

Another Bayturtles trope.

Although, to be fair, TMNT 1990 is a bit guilty of that too.

[myconius]

Although, to be fair, TMNT 1990 is a bit guilty of that too.

true! pretty much every scene with Danny was pretty cringe worthy.

watching Keno was no picnic either!

but none are as painful to watch as this guy

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/a/af/Zach2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120627202853

[CyberCubed]

They add kid sidekick characters to every series.

Original toon had Zack and to a lesser extent Carter (even though he was in College and technically older than all the Turtles, lol)

4kids had Angel and that kid from "Lone Raph and Cub" who helped Raph fight the gangsters

Nick had Timmy before he became Mutagen Man. You could sort of count April/Casey too since they're de-aged.

IDW has Angel again

Mirage has Shadow, and she is actually in a lot of Tales stories as both a teenager and young adult


I wonder why they always do this? Do they think adding a human kid sidekick helps people related to the Turtles?

[myconius]

They add kid sidekick characters to every series.

Original toon had Zack and to a lesser extent Carter (even though he was in College and technically older than all the Turtles, lol)

4kids had Angel and that kid from "Lone Raph and Cub" who helped Raph fight the gangsters

Nick had Timmy before he became Mutagen Man. You could sort of count April/Casey too since they're de-aged.

IDW has Angel again

Mirage has Shadow, and she is actually in a lot of Tales stories as both a teenager and young adult


I wonder why they always do this? Do they think adding a human kid sidekick helps people related to the Turtles?

just feels like the meddling of clueless corporate executives

"research studies show that BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH..."

they feel less a sidekick and more of just an annoying tagalong.

[ToTheNines]

They add kid sidekick characters to every series.

Original toon had Zack and to a lesser extent Carter (even though he was in College and technically older than all the Turtles, lol)

4kids had Angel and that kid from "Lone Raph and Cub" who helped Raph fight the gangsters

Nick had Timmy before he became Mutagen Man. You could sort of count April/Casey too since they're de-aged.

IDW has Angel again

Mirage has Shadow, and she is actually in a lot of Tales stories as both a teenager and young adult


I wonder why they always do this? Do they think adding a human kid sidekick helps people related to the Turtles?

I would not count Angel in IDW. She's like 21 and does her own thing.

And you forgot Cody from Fast Forward.

[CyberCubed]

Ah yeah, Cody. For some reason he never bothered me though, he was basically a male version of April with a little Casey in him. I also liked that he wasn't involved in every single fight the Turtles had in FF, they left him out of a lot of episodes or behind at O'Neil tech so he didn't feel forced.

[myconius]

You could sort of count April/Casey too since they're de-aged.


they at least were developed characters before Nick decided to turn them into kiddie tagalongs.

i image they're going to do this to the new cartoon as well?

[CyberCubed]

With that out of the way, let's make a little list of what has been grinding against my personal preference before:
[LIST]
April as a newsreporter

April as a reporter isn't a big deal, but I don't care if she ever is one again. She was also a reporter in Archie and the original movie trilogy and it didn't matter.

Baxter Stockman as a fly

Baxter as a fly is fine, just as long as it isn't overused.

Any version of Bebop and Rocksteady aside from the IDW version and maybe the Nick version.

Well Fred Wolf Bebop/Rocksteady would only work in the context of the old show obviously.

"The Kraang" instead of the Utroms

The Kraang aren't a problem as long as they aren't overused. They're basically just enslaved/hypnotized Utroms.

Pretending you can write an entire season about going to the future when it shouldn't take up more than five episodes at most
[.

FF had plenty of story material, at most they could have chopped off about 6 episodes and made a 20 episode season.

[ToTheNines]

Ah yeah, Cody. For some reason he never bothered me though, he was basically a male version of April with a little Casey in him. I also liked that he wasn't involved in every single fight the Turtles had in FF, they left him out of a lot of episodes or behind at O'Neil tech so he didn't feel forced.

I didn't hate Cody either. It was cool that he was part of the family and that the Jones-O'Neils passed down stories of the guys to each generation.

I do think you're incorrect about how heavily he was featured. They used him a lot, especially once he built Turtle X. The only episode he actually sat out was "Milk Run".

[neatoman]

April as a reporter isn't a big deal, but I don't care if she ever is one again. She was also a reporter in Archie and the original movie trilogy and it didn't matter.



Baxter as a fly is fine, just as long as it isn't overused.



Well Fred Wolf Bebop/Rocksteady would only work in the context of the old show obviously.



The Kraang aren't a problem as long as they aren't overused. They're basically just enslaved/hypnotized Utroms.



FF had plenty of story material, at most they could have chopped off about 6 episodes and made a 20 episode season.

But I have a reason to dislike all of them, not necessarily unbiased ones but reasons all the same.


I don't like April being a reporter since it's at odds with Turtles living in the shadows.
I don't like Baxter turning into a fly because it reduces a compelling character with plenty of potential to a one note movie parody.
I don't like most versions Bebop and Rocksteady because they're pointless and obnoxious. The exception to this is the IDW version, since Waltz/Weaver at least figured out how to turn the irritating elements into something charming and gave them something resembling a point. I'm not sure about the Nick version, they're kind of still kind of annoying and I don't see why they have to be Bebop and Rocksteady, but at least they're not as annoying and the difference helps me distance them from the original version.
The Kraang pretty much were the show's version of the Utroms for three seasons and I hated it.
When I rewatched the series in full two years ago or so, I noticed that a lot of the stories could easily take place in the modern era, highlighting what a gimmick the guture setting was...

[myconius]

But I have a reason to dislike all of them, not necessarily unbiased ones but reasons all the same.


I don't like April being a reporter since it's at odds with Turtles living in the shadows.
I don't like Baxter turning into a fly because it reduces a compelling character with plenty of potential to a one note movie parody.


two very excellent points.

[CyberCubed]

How is Baxter less of a one-note character if he turns into a cyborg? Baxter as a fly is meant to be sympathetic, at least how he was in the original toon. Baxter in 4kids was meant to be sympathetic too because of what happened to him.

IDW's Baxter seems to be going in a new direction, but so far he basically functioned as the same lackey for Krang or Shredder, went through the same Mouser and robot subplots, and the Fly-borgs are basically just a mix of his mutant fly and cyborg forms. Depends where he goes from here.

[myconius]

Baxter in the early Mirage was a cunning and ruthless megalomaniac.
Baxter-fly is just another bumbling henchman.

at least the IDW comics restored the character's credibility at being formidable.

[myconius]

April as a reporter . . . . . . that i'll just never understand.

[MikeandRaph87]

Baxter in the early Mirage was a cunning and ruthless megalomaniac.
Baxter-fly is just another bumbling henchman.

at least the IDW comics restored the character's credibility at being formidable.

April as a reporter . . . . . . that i'll just never understand.



As David Wise said, we had only hit the early stage of the Information Age when Red Sky begin. That being said,the TMNT needed a way of being informed of the villains' plot so having a reporter for a friend gets the action going.

It doesn't matter if Baxter is a fly or a cyborg, white or black. He is forced into the role of henchman of Shredder. Mirage had only one story with him before they made him into a cyborg unable to do more with an independent human Baxter. He will never be a big bad standing on his own. He will either be the unwilling henchman or working with for his own goals,not Baxter Stockman by himself.

[neatoman]

How is Baxter less of a one-note character if he turns into a cyborg?

Because that way he's not just a riff on one specific thing, cyborg is a much more general and diverse idea than just parodying The Fly. Not to mention that it just doesn't sit right with me to turn one of the original Mirage characters into a parody of some unrelated thing, especially when they had almost nothing in common to begin. As the villain of the second TMNT story ever told, reason April met the turtles, the only good thing about volume 2, one of the best written characters of both the 2003 and the IDW series, he's very memorable on his own merits without being turned into a damn parody of the Fly.

Baxter Stockman can be a great character in his own right and he's been at his best when they've actualy used the comic book version as a starting point, turning him into fly and then trying to define him as "the guy who turns into a fly" just feels like an insult to what the character should be.

And in case I've just been talking out my ass so far, at least the cyborg version offers some visual variety...
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/a/aa/Baxter2k3man.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120806184740http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/0/08/3534717012_9d2f32a346-1-.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130616201516http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/a/a5/Mechabaxter.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120806184904http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/c/c9/Spiderbaxter.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120806184940http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/8/88/Baxterbrain.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120806184820http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/4/40/2616514989_86c1423fe1_o.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121020131916http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/4/48/2616514983_47003968ca_o.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131207104007http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/7/78/Exobaxter.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120806184836http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/8/81/2616514987_2596669a90_o.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121020131858

[myconius]

It doesn't matter if Baxter is a fly or a cyborg, white or black. He is forced into the role of henchman of Shredder.

Mirage never had Baxter as a henchman of Shredder. neither did IDW.
Baxter partnered with Shredder in IDW for a story arc, but he was never a henchman.


the Fred Wolf cartoons could have found another way to keep the Turtles informed of the villains' plot.
they pretty much just turned April into Lois Lane.

[MikeandRaph87]

Mirage never had Baxter as a henchman of Shredder. neither did IDW.
Baxter partnered with Shredder in IDW for a story arc, but he was never a henchman.


the Fred Wolf cartoons could have found another way to keep the Turtles informed of the villains' plot.
they pretty much just turned April into Lois Lane.

I am saying,Baxter has be shown to have limit if on his own. He appeared 1 time then became a cyborg. Why not find something else for him to do as plain old Baxter Stockman no ties to anyone? He has worked for Krang opposed to Shredder in IDW. He has to work for someone at some point. Its just easier to fold him under another villain. He remains with some personal autonomy in IDW and remained human. Unfortunately it took 27 years for it to happen. Yes,it was surprising how Shredder with some initial threatening worked with him opposed to over him. Baxter is finally going places. I do prefer the fly over the cyborg,but I just want plain old Baxter Stockman so he can grow on his own merit not resorting to a power up.

[myconius]

I am saying,Baxter has be shown to have limit if on his own. He appeared 1 time then became a cyborg.

the same thing could have been said about shredder having only one appearance and then coming back as a worm zombie. (which was very cool btw)

wasn't the second volume of Mirage comics solely written by Jim Lawson and no story input from either Kevin or Peter?
but i still prefer Baxter as a deranged cyborg than turning him into a Andre Delambre knock-off.

[CyberCubed]

Baxter functioned the same way in 4kids despite being a cyborg than a fly. He was Shredder's henchmen/scientist who worked for him and got punished, tried to betray him and go off on his own several times, then after Shredder's defeat started working for Bishop.

It's the same thing more or less. IDW's Baxter has also spent most of his run working for Krang, trying to betray him and kill the Turtles, then worked for Shredder for a very brief time, and is now more or less on his own.

[Coola Yagami]

I am saying,Baxter has be shown to have limit if on his own. He appeared 1 time then became a cyborg. Why not find something else for him to do as plain old Baxter Stockman no ties to anyone? He has worked for Krang opposed to Shredder in IDW. He has to work for someone at some point. Its just easier to fold him under another villain. He remains with some personal autonomy in IDW and remained human. Unfortunately it took 27 years for it to happen. Yes,it was surprising how Shredder with some initial threatening worked with him opposed to over him. Baxter is finally going places. I do prefer the fly over the cyborg,but I just want plain old Baxter Stockman so he can grow on his own merit not resorting to a power up.

Well... Baxter is just a scientist in a series of martial arts and mutants. There's only so much he can do against the turtles after they destroy his inventions. He needs some kind of power up to handle them directly.

Who knows. Maybe some future version will make him a fighter as well as a scientist.

[Prowler]

Bay Turtles were worse than the lowest possible level I had ever imagined for the Turtles, so I'm not even gonna bother thinking of something that could possibly be worse than that.

[ProactiveMan]

I guess I have a darker imagination than you guys because there is no way PD is the worst version of TMNT imaginable.

What if they had done what they wanted to do with Batman and cast Saturday Night Live alumni? Dan Aykroyd, Eddie Murphy, John Candy and Martin Short, painted bright green with rubber bald caps and plastic shells, running around New York making poo jokes.

What if Seth Macfarlane decided to produce a TMNT series instead of the ill-fated Flintstones remake? Bulbous, bug-eyed Turtles standing in the middle of the screen, barely moving, while joking about domestic violence.

Personally, I'm a little apprehensive about the new show that we don't know much about. It's supposed to be lighter than the Nick series... that's pretty light in my estimation. I keep picturing blobby, oversimplified Turtles in the style of Adventure Time, waggling their rubber-hose limbs about, making squee faces, and acting like deranged idiots.

[ToTheNines]

What if they had done what they wanted to do with Batman and cast Saturday Night Live alumni? Dan Aykroyd, Eddie Murphy, John Candy and Martin Short, painted bright green with rubber bald caps and plastic shells, running around New York making poo jokes.

Did you know before they even made the Playmates deal, someone came to them wanting to make a movie like that with Billy Bristol, Sam Kinison and others fighting roller skating nuns or something?

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

A lot of good answers here. Nice job!

Here's mine.

--Splinter learned "ninjutsu" from watching old ninja b-movies after he got mutated. Hamato Yoshi was just the actor that starred in them, and Oroku Saki was just the actor that played all the villains. So, he and the Turtles don't know real ninjutsu, they're just imitating martial arts from some old movies.

--Shredder is just a gang leader named "Joe Shraeder". And, he's white.

--The Turtles have a strict "no kill" policy so the Foot Soldiers are robots, but they're sentient robots (which from a moral perspective count as people) so the Turtles can't destroy them anyway.

--Because of that "no kill" policy, the Turtles don't have their signature weapons. Donatello's Bo has safety padding at the ends, Leonardo uses bokutô instead of katanas, Raphael has safety-padded tonfa, and Michelangelo is back to the grappling hook!

--Despite the non-lethal weapons, they still fight most of their battles by dropping chandeliers on their enemies or attacking them with toys, trash cans, etc.

--There are eight TMNT, Leonardo, Raphael, Michelangelo, Donatello, Venus, Kirby, Mona Lisa, and Zack! The show centers around the original four searching for the others who then replace them as the main characters of the show. They were all mutated in the same ooze puddle (except Zack, who's human) and are all related, but that doesn't stop Raph from dating both Venus and Mona.

--April's thing is that she's sexually obsessed with cockroaches! She's constantly going on about how sexy and cute they are. Gushes when she sees on and starts hitting on it. And, she eventually starts dating Scumbug.

--Casey is actually Kacey, and is now a girl. The show makes a big deal out of this and keeps telling us how tough and badass she is, when she's actually always getting captured and the Turtles and April keep having to rescue her incompetent ass.

--Every alien and mutant character from every version of TMNT, no matter how obscure, makes an appearance. But, they're all just one-note generic villains.

--It's in live-action and the actors are just wearing green face-paint and cardboard shells.

Now, that's a TMNT that would make Next Mutation and PD look like "City at War"!:lol:

[myconius]

Tetsu Deinonychus, that was brilliant!!! :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

--Casey is actually Kacey, and is now a girl. The show makes a big deal out of this and keeps telling us how tough and badass she is, when she's actually always getting captured and the Turtles and April keep having to rescue her incompetent ass.

You know, a new iteration of TMNT where Casey Jones is a girl may not be the worst thing ever.

[ProphetofGanja]

You know, a new iteration of TMNT where Casey Jones is a girl may not be the worst thing ever.

Yeah, that could be interesting if done well, or maybe even a whole gender-swapped version of the show

Tetsu Dino, that was amazingly awful. I would probably hate-watch that show

[neatoman]

You know, a new iteration of TMNT where Casey Jones is a girl may not be the worst thing ever.

Sure about that?
http://pre13.deviantart.net/0adb/th/pre/f/2014/326/6/b/karai__casey_and_april_by_linart-d878mk6.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/5d/55/15/5d5515c8d151a7066f0f3fb4a958dfe2.jpg

[myconius]

Sure about that?
http://pre13.deviantart.net/0adb/th/pre/f/2014/326/6/b/karai__casey_and_april_by_linart-d878mk6.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/5d/55/15/5d5515c8d151a7066f0f3fb4a958dfe2.jpg

point and CHECK!!!! :lol:

[Cryomancer]

Sure about that?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/5d/55/15/5d5515c8d151a7066f0f3fb4a958dfe2.jpg

I am OK with this

[myconius]

I am OK with this

but what about when this "Casey" starts twerking?

[snake]

I'd be fine with it even more then.

[myconius]

I'd be fine with it even more then.

didn't we already sort'a get that character already? :lol:

https://media.giphy.com/media/l3972uCZMkGZGc7UQ/giphy.gif

[pferreira]

The Fred Wolf show was about tongue in cheek and sarcastic humor, it's nothing like the new movies.Exactly although the second PD movie was an improvement over the first.

Image was great.From what I understand it was pretty terrible. This version was basically an overreaction to TMNT being labelled as a kids property so the writers made Leo lose an eye, Raph face burnt off etc. Very contrived in concept.

How is Baxter less of a one-note character if he turns into a cyborg? Baxter as a fly is meant to be sympathetic, at least how he was in the original toon.Right, you can have the 4Kids version get mutilated but the fly version of Baxter brought sympathy for being tragic. That worked better.

they pretty much just turned April into Lois Lane.That was David Wise intention and why not?

That being said,the TMNT needed a way of being informed of the villains' plot so having a reporter for a friend gets the action going.Yeah as I've explained elsewhere April as a reporter allowed her a deal with the Turtles where she would inform them of anything dodgy going on in the city and in return she got to cover it for the news. Not a bad partnership.

By the way the worst way to kill TMNT is probably this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikFDcWca6sM

:lol:

[ToTheNines]

You've obviously never actually read it.

[CyberCubed]

People blame Fred Wolf April for being too much of a Lois Lane character, but what is she in every other series?

Mirage: She's mostly a background character thoughout its entire run. I don't really blame them because she wasn't involved with the Turtles adventures much in this series, but she really doesn't do all that much.

4kids: April was mostly treated like a second Donatello in tech support. Again, she was left out of a lot of episodes because she wasn't the damsel in distress but couldn't be involved in all the action either. They did start to have her learn how to fight but that didn't last long beyond Season 3 if I recall.

Nick: She's basically Jean Grey. A human with psychic/telekinesis powers. She even had her pheonix moment in the series.

IDW: She's a good friend and helps the Turtles, nowadays she's working on the Pantheon, but again she's mostly in the "research" role support ever since Secret History of the Foot Clan.


Then in the movies and Archie she was a reporter again. So really, every other version of April is literally treated like something else too.

[Powder]

You've obviously never actually read it.

He's the penultimate Fred Wolf apologist, to an extent that it comes off like trolling (though I don't think it is).

[myconius]

i just see the Turtles hanging out with a TV reporter as a conflict of interest. :lol:
thank goodness the IDW comics returned her as first being an assistant for Baxter Stockman.



From what I understand it was pretty terrible. This version was basically an overreaction to TMNT being labelled as a kids property so the writers made Leo lose an eye, Raph face burnt off etc. Very contrived in concept.


i found the image run to be pretty frikken awesome myself.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

i just see the Turtles hanging out with a TV reporter as a conflict of interest. :lol:
thank goodness the IDW comics returned her as first being an assistant for Baxter Stockman.




i found the image run to be pretty frikken awesome myself.

Real TMNT fans like Image TMNT. :trazz:

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I haven't even touched an Image comic and even I love the idea of it. If only I knew where to purchase them.:cry:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I haven't even touched an Image comic and even I love the idea of it. If only I knew where to purchase them.:cry:

eBay or mycomicshop or even on here. They crop up fairly regularly.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Wait, from here?

[Powder]

Wait, from here?

http://i.imgur.com/Fl2GYDW.png

[myconius]

i know opinions and tastes are purely subjective,
but Image being called terrible? that's pretty harsh!


at least it wasn't a bash on the classic Mirage comics.
then i'd say we had ourselves a clear case of insanity!! :lol:

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Thanks, I've been wanting to read this.

But yeah, PD turtles are the worst, no contest.

[myconius]

Thanks, I've been wanting to read this.

But yeah, PD turtles are the worst, no contest.

PD might be neck and neck with these guys :lol:

https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-02-2015/0uPB_U.gif

[ToTheNines]

He's the penultimate Fred Wolf apologist, to an extent that it comes off like trolling (though I don't think it is).

Oh I know his schtick. He thinks David Wise created all the turtles' archetypical personalities and they were just interchangeable blank slates for the first 4 years of Mirage.


i found the image run to be pretty frikken awesome myself.

It's very much in line with most of Mirage. I used to think it was retarded too, based off of its reputation. But then I read it.

It's very 90's and some of the characters from other Image books are awful, but once you get passed the first arc it's amazing.

[myconius]

It's very much in line with most of Mirage. I used to think it was retarded too, based off of its reputation. But then I read it.

It's very 90's and some of the characters from other Image books are awful, but once you get passed the first arc it's amazing.

yeah, the image run felt very much a nice continuation of the Mirage run.

sure there were some real differences in writing tone and definitely the art style.
but it wasn't so far removed to seem like a completely different universe, unlike a lot of the mainstream comics after they have a change in creative teams.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

You know, a new iteration of TMNT where Casey Jones is a girl may not be the worst thing ever.
It wouldn't. But, if they made a big deal out of it and made her really arrogant, but then had her suck at everything it would undermine whatever feminist progress they were trying to make, and just be really annoying. It would be Nick!Casey only sexist while trying too hard not to be sexist.

It would be perfect for my worst imagined version.:D


My issues with the Image series are all the "X-Treme 90s"isms that kept me away from most Superhero comics at the time, especially all the Image characters they cross over with, and the Turtles not caring about each other getting horribly disfigured. I also think Raph looks kinda stupid with Casey's mask on (and Casey's new mask looks kinda stupid too). So, I don't think it's fair to say that if you like Mirage TMNT (I LOVE Mirage TMNT) you have to like Image TMNT.

To be fair, there's some neat stuff in there too, and I can see why some might like it. And, I think what Andrew did collaborating with the creative team to give it a conclusion and tie it back into Mirage continuity is kinda neat. But, it's just not my cup of tea.

It is interesting that TMNT at the time was the two extremes, Image and Next Mutation. The darkest and the lightest.

[myconius]

one thing i wasn't happy with in the Image run was Leo loosing a hand.

[Rooish]

I wasn't happy with the characterization at first with Image. It was super macho and occasionally quite sexist and not at all like the Turtles usually are.

It got better as it went, except all the crossovers.

[Konchadunga]

I'll define mine as a list of bullet points taken from past incarnations.
•The fighting would be the slapstick sort from most of the Fred Wolf show.
•Venus would be in it.
•Venus would act like she did in The Next Mutation.
•Except she'd be the leader.
•Every other turtle would have the personality of Mikey at his very worst.
•The Turtles would actually be aliens, and none would be siblings.
•It would be a musical, with songs on-par with the Coming Out of Their Shells Tour other than "Pizza Power."
•It would be live-action and use the costumes from that LA public transportation PSA.
•Shredder would be as incompetent as his Fred Wolf incarnation, as one-dimensional as his 4Kids incarnation, and have the costume and anti-music conspiracy of his Coming Out of Their Shells incarnation.
•Splinter would be as much of a jerk and an idiot as he is in the worst moments of the Nick show, all the time.
•Every episode would contain at least ten uses of "Cowabunga" and "What the Shell".
•April would have no talents, no sense of danger, no fashion sense and no breasts.
•Burn Thompson would be her boss, played by Whoopi Goldberg dressed to look like a white man.
•Irma would actually be a Kraang, but not a smart and sentient and funny one and not voiced by Godfrey. He'd be one of the moronic Kraang, except even more moronic. His Irma costume would have the portion he rides in always visible, and everyone would just pretend not to notice because they wouldn't want to hurt his feelings.
•The Pulveriser would be in it, just as fat and worthless as he was in the Nick show, except this time the show's narrative would treat every bit of constructive criticism he gets as mendacious fat-shaming. Then, in a moment of self-contradiction, he would foul up so badly about a thousand people die. He would not become Mutagen Man.
•The Vomit Monster would be in it, as a regular villain.
•All of the Turtles would be bisexual and the male turtles would divide their time between making out with each other and fighting over who gets Venus.
•Also both Don and Miley would lust after April and hatch schemes to get with her.

[pferreira]

You've obviously never actually read it.

Oh I know his schtick. He thinks David Wise created all the turtles' archetypical personalities and they were just interchangeable blank slates for the first 4 years of Mirage. Are you guys talking about me? First of all you're having a go at me for liking a show you don't consider worthy (because you and the other guy are idiots), second of all the FW cartoon was made when the Mirage comic was still relatively new so yeah there's going to be some cross over of ideas, third of all I don't need to read the Image era if I don't want to. The Image era is seen as the nadir of the franchise along with The Next Mutation. Hey feel free to like it but it wasn't good and the comic, what it did was an overreaction to what was going on at the time. Hope that clears things up. ;)

Real TMNT fans like Image TMNT.Real TMNT fans like The Next Mutation. Does that make you feel better? :roll:

He's the penultimate Fred Wolf apologist, to an extent that it comes off like trolling (though I don't think it is).I'm not the penultimate anything yet the person who's having a go at me could be considered the troll himself for criticising someone on this board eh? ;)

[Andrew NDB]

The Image era is seen as the nadir of the franchise

By who? By you?

[pferreira]

By who? By you?Not by me. But I know fandom never liked it much due to the crazy stuff that happened in it. Too right as well.

[neatoman]

Pretty sure the "nadir", is the Next Mutation. It's far easier to find defenders of the Image series.

[pferreira]

Pretty sure the "nadir", is the Next Mutation. It's far easier to find defenders of the Image series.But it is around the same time. Volume 4 and the 2003 cartoon were seen as rejuvenating the franchise.

[myconius]

it's all opinion based.
not everyone has to like the same things.

sure there are majorities of certain preferences.
but personal tastes are that of the individual.

[Powder]

I wanna know why he only posts on Thursdays.

[ToTheNines]

To kill my buzz after new comic book day.

[CyberCubed]

I think it's time this thread was locked.

[Jephael]

I think it's time this thread was locked.

For once I kind of agree on this statement.

[ProphetofGanja]

Ya know something Cubed? I think the PD Turtles' lips bother me almost as much as their nostrils do you

[CyberCubed]

Ya know something Cubed? I think the PD Turtles' lips bother me almost as much as their nostrils do you

It's basically the whole human looking faces in general. The nose/nostrils, the human lips, the eyes....they look like ogres, Shrek clones, 4 Hulks, or humans in green skin rather than Turtles.

[Jephael]

It's basically the whole human looking faces in general. The nose/nostrils, the human lips, the eyes....they look like ogres, Shrek clones, 4 Hulks, or humans in green skin rather than Turtles.

Or these guys:

http://i67.tinypic.com/2j3ibdx.jpg

[myconius]

Ya know something Cubed? I think the PD Turtles' lips bother me almost as much as their nostrils do you

It's basically the whole human looking faces in general. The nose/nostrils, the human lips, the eyes....they look like ogres, Shrek clones, 4 Hulks, or humans in green skin rather than Turtles.

they should have just given them ears too! :P

[DisKosh]

It's basically the whole human looking faces in general. The nose/nostrils, the human lips, the eyes....they look like ogres, Shrek clones, 4 Hulks, or humans in green skin rather than Turtles.

Yeah, look don't judge me, but I still think Mikey looks adorable (even though he is creepy in the first one).

[ProphetofGanja]

they should have just given them ears too! :P

Honestly, they should have just put green face paint on four dudes and saved their SFX money and then maybe they could've afforded to pay actual writers to create a coherent plot with likable characters

[Yoshimickster]

One where they transform inbetween human and turtle power ranger style destroying the conflict of being outsiders to human society. Ba-BAM!

[DestronMirage22]

From what I understand it was pretty terrible. This version was basically an overreaction to TMNT being labelled as a kids property so the writers made Leo lose an eye, Raph face burnt off etc. Very contrived in concept.


I understand it's your personal opinion, but do you mean to say that Image did absolutely nothing for you? Have you even read much of it? Many TMNT fans, myself included, loved it for breathing life back into the comics, bringing them out of the slump they'd been in since Vol. 2. It also brought back the "gritty" nature it had, which was the original appeal to the brand. What's there not to like about it?

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

What's there not to like about it?

The "X-Treme 90s" writing style, the shilling for Savage Dragon and other Image characters, and the Turtles getting horribly disfigured (and not caring that much about each other).

There are things to like about it too, but these are legit reasons why it's not for everyone or even every Mirage TMNT fan.

[Andrew NDB]

and the Turtles getting horribly disfigured (and not caring that much about each other).

So kind of like V4, then?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So kind of like V4, then?

Raph getting the Gamera treatment, Don shrinking, Mikey getting PTSD and anger issues, Leo getting... nothing, I guess.

Yep!

Horribly disfigured, and not really caring about each other.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Yeah, V4's not perfect either (I really don't like Psycho-Mikey wanting to kill his baby-mama). The lack of concern for each other bothers me in Vol. 4 too.

But, I do want to go on record and say that I like Shrunken Don in a Mech Suit much better than full-on cyborg Don. I actually really liked that concept. And, I also like "Gameraph" better than him wearing Casey's mask (he should have just went with the eye-patch in Image). But, I do wish they gave that a better resolution.

There are reasons why I think of the Vol.1 era as "the complete series" (though even vol. 1 has it's flaws), and vol. 2, 3, and 4 as "sequels".

[oldmanwinters]

I kinda like Mark Martin's issues but I think the worst TMNT would be if he would have been allowed to draw more issues during his Mirage-run. I think it was a wise decision to limit his latter appearances to doing self-parody through his Green-Grey Sponge-Suit Sushi Turtles.

[ToTheNines]

Hedden and McWeeney deserve a shout out in this thread.

This is said shout out.

[pferreira]

I wanna know why he only posts on Thursdays.Why not? Am I trolling for doing so? Oh boy... :roll:

I think it's time this thread was locked.Maybe people on here should be respectful of one another's opinions, then you wouldn't need to ask for that to happen?

I understand it's your personal opinion, but do you mean to say that Image did absolutely nothing for you? Have you even read much of it? Many TMNT fans, myself included, loved it for breathing life back into the comics, bringing them out of the slump they'd been in since Vol. 2. It also brought back the "gritty" nature it had, which was the original appeal to the brand. What's there not to like about it?

The "X-Treme 90s" writing style, the shilling for Savage Dragon and other Image characters, and the Turtles getting horribly disfigured (and not caring that much about each other).

There are things to like about it too, but these are legit reasons why it's not for everyone or even every Mirage TMNT fan.I really need to sit down and read it properly but yeah, the first and last points you mentioned aren't my cup of tea. :ohwell:

it's all opinion based.
not everyone has to like the same things.

sure there are majorities of certain preferences.
but personal tastes are that of the individual.Couldn't agree more. :)

[Vegita-San]

Why not? Am I trolling for doing so? Oh boy... :roll:

Maybe people on here should be respectful of one another's opinions, then you wouldn't need to ask for that to happen?
)

uh oh.. did too many people trash the nick show again? ;o)

[Andrew NDB]

The "X-Treme 90s" writing style, the shilling for Savage Dragon and other Image characters

You have it backwards. The idea was that maybe some guest spots by established Image characters would help the Image TMNT series sell, which it wasn't doing. Not the other way around.

I actually don't think they took the idea far enough. A big, say, Spawn or WildCATS or something crossover with TMNT might have saved the ship. A lot of people didn't even know a TMNT comic was going on.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

pferreira is online?

Must be Thursday.

[Andrew NDB]

I suspect that he is a permanent (or at least long-term) resident in a care facility and internet access is limited. Or possibly a correctional institute.

You probably hit the nail on the head.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

You probably hit the nail on the head.

There aren't a lot of plausible reasons, so I am quite likely right.

Only other possibility is on the spectrum somewhere, but that seems like more of a stretch... Occam's Razor, and all that.

Simplest explanation is only Thursdays because only Thursdays are available.

[neatoman]

Any ideas what his diagnosis could be?

[Andrew NDB]

Any ideas what his diagnosis could be?

Toxic levels of Fred Wolf poisoning of the brain.

Another thought, could it be Gobo under a different name, come to visit us on his rec day in prison?

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

You have it backwards. The idea was that maybe some guest spots by established Image characters would help the Image TMNT series sell, which it wasn't doing. Not the other way around.

I actually don't think they took the idea far enough. A big, say, Spawn or WildCATS or something crossover with TMNT might have saved the ship. A lot of people didn't even know a TMNT comic was going on.

That does make more sense, but I'm still not fond of seeing the Turtles pal around with Blood-Gun, and Dark-Blood, and Blood-Guts, and Blood-Skull, and Dark-Skull, and Blood-Blood and the other Liefeldian monstrosities that populate the Image universe.

You're right though that Spawn was white-hot back then and a TMNT/Spawn crossover would have been good from a business perspective.

The one 90s Image hero I really respect though is The Maxx (I like Spawn too, but as a guilty pleasure). Now, a TMNT/Maxx crossover is something I could really get behind. Even now, it would still be a neat idea.

[neatoman]

There aren't a lot of plausible reasons, so I am quite likely right.

Only other possibility is on the spectrum somewhere, but that seems like more of a stretch... Occam's Razor, and all that.

Simplest explanation is only Thursdays because only Thursdays are available.

Alright, pferreira, I know you're reading this. What's your excuse?

[Vegita-San]

what the hell does it matter when someone posts?

honestly, the things people focus on these days :)

[neatoman]

what the hell does it matter when someone posts?

honestly, the things people focus on these days :)

Because it's very odd that he would post on thursdays and only thursdays, especially for something as casual as a forum. It's literally every single thursday too, not a thursday once in a while, not mainly thursdays, not a few posts on a thursday. Every single thursday he seems to make this huge batch of posts and then wait a week to do another.

It's not typical behaviour of someone who has control over his internet access, that coupled with all the projecting and inability to understand what people are telling him is what lead Cylons suspicions.

Keep in mind, this is what Cylons thinks, I just want to see if the guy can defend himself.

[Vegita-San]

I'll admit it's a little odd..

but it's just an odd thing to focus on at all :).

I dunno...maybe i've got more things to worry about :).