PDA

View Full Version : Would you like a turtles show in the fantasy genre?


FredWolfLeonardo
03-24-2017, 02:11 PM
Traditionally, tmnt has always been a science fiction type show with their origin and such. However, I have always found the mystical element of ninja turtles to be fascinating.

How would you like it if there was a new show that was say, set in Ancient Feudal Japan and the origin of the turtles was not due to mutagen but due to a magical spell or curse etc. There would be more emphasis on magic, mystical and spiritual elements as opposed to the lean towards science fiction In the tmnt shows we have today.

What are your thoughts on such a concept? Would you be open to the concept of a fantasy oriented turtles show?

neatoman
03-24-2017, 02:22 PM
I get what you're saying but aren't there enough fantasy elements already to justify calling fantasy? The current comic book series even gave them an origin based on reincarnation.

FredWolfLeonardo
03-24-2017, 02:31 PM
I get what you're saying but aren't there enough fantasy elements already to justify calling fantasy? The current comic book series even gave them an origin based on reincarnation.

True that, but what I mean is a show where many of the science fiction elements we have in tmnt today are instead replaced by fantasy/mysticism, an almost purely fantasy show unlike past shows which have had a roughly even split between fantasy and science fiction with a lean towards the latter.

CyberCubed
03-24-2017, 02:31 PM
I feel like there's already a lot of fantasy or magic in the series:

- Renet and her time travel takes the Turtles to ancient Japan and medieval europe in many versions

- The Turtles deal with magic, dragons or powers in every single series.

- There are witches, sorcerers or magic users in every single series

- The Turtles fight regular monsters (not mutants, but actual monsters), in a lot of versions too, like beasts, or skeletons, or vampires

ProphetofGanja
03-24-2017, 02:31 PM
I'm intrigued enough to entertain fleshing out this idea

ProphetofGanja
03-24-2017, 02:36 PM
True that, but what I mean is a show where many of the science fiction elements we have in tmnt today are instead replaced by fantasy/mysticism, an almost purely fantasy show unlike past shows which have had a roughly even split between fantasy and science fiction with a lean towards the latter.

So what would Splinter and the Turtles' origin story be? The reincarnation angle introduced in IDW could fit just as well in this setting as it does in the modern day setting of the comics

Powder
03-24-2017, 02:52 PM
I had developed a concept exactly like this a few years ago, hoping one day I'd be motivated to make a fan-comic of it, but alas, too lazy. :tlol:

They would sorta be guardians of the land who lived in the mountains & were discovered by a monk (Hamato Yoshi) when they were very young. He'd take them in & raise them as his children/disciples, living in isolation. They'd protect the natural resources & wild-life at first, eventually growing up to take care of thieves, assassins, etc. by dark of night. Saki would be a corrupt shogun they were trained to one day take down, Splinter would be a mere pet rat, though he would chill in a pouch on Donnie's belt & travel with them.


The design concepts need some work but I ought to revisit this some day.
http://img01.deviantart.net/a81f/i/2014/174/c/a/ninjatatoruzu_by_powderakacaseyjones-d7nmogq.png

So in other words, I'm all for it. The mysticism & Japanese elements are some of my most favorite things about TMNT.

CyberCubed
03-24-2017, 03:07 PM
I find it weird TMNT is so quick to focus on sci-fi and mutants over the more realistic or mystical parts of the franchise. Mirage is guilty of this too, given how early the space arc happened by issue #4.

Utrommaniac
03-24-2017, 03:20 PM
It would really depend, I think. It's the only way I'd be okay with a "second dimension" element. Why have Dimension X in normal settings when the aliens could just be from another galaxy?

I've said before that I don't really like magic in a science-born story, but if it was caused by magic in another setting, I'd be okay with that.

I like Power's concept quite a lot. April could even be be a Dutch merchant's daughter or something to that degree (since the Japanese and the Dutch would have been trading around that time). Utroms are still very much seen in the same light as Krang was in Secret History of the Foot Clan as Tetsu-Oni.
And their explanation for their part in the turtle's creation would come down to:
"Yeeees, you were created with magic, suuuure...hide the experiment tubes.
"
Which is how they do just about everything already, but pushed to the max.

FredWolfLeonardo
03-24-2017, 03:36 PM
I had developed a concept exactly like this a few years ago, hoping one day I'd be motivated to make a fan-comic of it, but alas, too lazy. :tlol:

They would sorta be guardians of the land who lived in the mountains & were discovered by a monk (Hamato Yoshi) when they were very young. He'd take them in & raise them as his children/disciples, living in isolation. They'd protect the natural resources & wild-life at first, eventually growing up to take care of thieves, assassins, etc. by dark of night. Saki would be a corrupt shogun they were trained to one day take down, Splinter would be a mere pet rat, though he would chill in a pouch on Donnie's belt & travel with them.


The design concepts need some work but I ought to revisit this some day.
http://img01.deviantart.net/a81f/i/2014/174/c/a/ninjatatoruzu_by_powderakacaseyjones-d7nmogq.png

So in other words, I'm all for it. The mysticism & Japanese elements are some of my most favorite things about TMNT.

I was gonna come up with my own idea but screw that, this idea is Fabulous! ;)

IndigoErth
03-24-2017, 03:39 PM
No issue with fantasy elements and themes. Existing in another era... eh... I enjoy them visiting it, but I'd miss them living in our modern era.

How about a mini series that brings back Mikey being a bit of a writer and the episodes are in fact his stories. :D

dragonside
03-24-2017, 06:30 PM
I like this idea.

I would really like it if the setting was in ancient feudal Japan.

I would imagine it to be something like Spiderman Noir, it would be the Ninja Turtles of that age (instead of the time travelling ones).

If this were merged universe with Usagi Yojimbo - that would be even better, so that we can have a crossover no problem, and have everyone be animals, so that the TMNT become more like a Ninja Clan a la Naruto style.

I'd like magic to be a smaller part of the fantasy (limited to some characters) and the focus to be on advanced ninjutsu.

Leo - still a master swordsman, maybe he will be a samurai who becomes a ninja.

Raphael - being a strong farmer who decides to bear arms.

Michelangelo - to be a theater acrobat

Donatello - to be a scholar of the age and perhaps astrologer?

Shredder - maybe change his origin to be more like conqueror

I'd like to see the Turtles have a Turtle Father and Mother but also still have Splinter be their master. And perhaps a revenge story.


:teek:

Utrommaniac
03-24-2017, 09:51 PM
Okay, but get this...what if their parents...were actually, unmutated turtles?
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o191/Bat-Snake/tumblr_oncqmk9bTK1rfuylgo1_1280_zps6851xolv.jpg
And she just...lives in a pond with a bunch of other turtles. And they know it's their mom because it's the only female there.

I might do a nicer drawing of it another time, but that I had to get it out of my mind.

snake
03-24-2017, 10:05 PM
Oh totally. I'd want Genndy Tartakovsky to produce it as well.

Wildcat
03-24-2017, 10:47 PM
So something like they were created by a wizard's spell or a supernatural being?

Chaos Emeralds fell to earth and changed 4 turtles into humanoids? :D

Just my Sonic side talking. Although the chaos emeralds are mystical gems. They don't have a sci-fi origin.

IndigoErth
03-24-2017, 11:37 PM
Okay, but get this...what if their parents...were actually, unmutated turtles?
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o191/Bat-Snake/tumblr_oncqmk9bTK1rfuylgo1_1280_zps6851xolv.jpg
And she just...lives in a pond with a bunch of other turtles. And they know it's their mom because it's the only female there.

I might do a nicer drawing of it another time, but that I had to get it out of my mind.
:lol:

If the option/chance presented itself, that could leave the boys with the interesting struggle and dilemma of questioning whether to mutate her or leave her alone. Would she be happier as a sentient person, or as she is? Would their longing for a mother be a selfish reason to go through with it? And who says the mutagen is still the same and would turn out just the same as for them, so maybe it's not worth risking anyhow. Moral struggles.




While we're dreaming up parental situations... Someday I want a version where Tang Shen is still present. Where she and Yoshi (later to be Splinter) both fled to NYC together to start a life there. And either she's mutated as well or...stays human.

I've got this concept in my head that Splinter (and Turtles) end up mutated while she's at home, work or wherever, and her husband, in her viewpoint, appears to have just vanished one day, leaving her to struggle with that unanswered loss. But he was actually afraid to return home. Eventually some years later he leaves a letter for her, possibly at his son's encouragement, and they start communicating that way. She doesn't understand why he is keeping secrets and won't come see her until eventually she learns the truth. And at some point meets the boys.

Utrommaniac
03-25-2017, 12:21 AM
Personally, I imagine them leaving their turtle mom alone. She wouldn't have the same level of sapiency as them when mutated; she wouldn't be able to give any human wisdoms or advice because she hasn't lived long enough of a sapient life to be a "mother". Under Yoshi's direction, the boys would understand that fully. Plus, there's some fun novelty in picking up the biggest turtle in the pond in front of rare visitors and saying "Here's the lady of the house!"
They get all the parenting they need from Yoshi. A mother figure would be nice, but they know they'll never get that from a turtle mutated far later than they have. They'd be helping her and advising her far more than she'd be helping and advising them.


I actually do have a version where Tang Shen survives, but she's just separated from Yoshi.

The TCRI destruction is set as a cause of the Turtles mutation, because of a fight between Saki and Yoshi (who were both potentials to be the head of the Utrom guardians) in one of the labs.
Yoshi escapes separately from Shen. He first gets the four turtles to safety, but isn't able to find Shen or their daughter Miwa. It turned out that she did get away from the fire, with Miwa and the lab's "mascot" cat - both of which mutated because the cat had climbed on the baby when the fire started.

Dr. Xeinos and Ma'riell send the three of them to their property in Northampton as a place of refuge while they work on anti-mutagens, and end up there for a long time. In the meantime, any mutants that are located go to Northampton as a halfway home and are looked after by Shen. Of course, she has stayed in contact with her Utrom employers and becomes increasingly sure that her husband died in the fire, just as he is sure that she had died.

So for whatever reason the turtles and Splinter are forced to go to Northampton, they would meet Shen there for the first time. I think it would be a better "close of first act" to meet her then, rather than at the end of the story. I'm not entirely sure why they're going to Northampton in my take, if the goal of the Foot Clan is to capture mutants for the Utroms so their mutation can be reversed.
(Maybe Saki still has a vendetta against Yoshi and would prefer him dead than have his mutation reversed?

It does put up a lot of ethics questions in regards to the mutation. All the turtles, Miwa, and the "Hob replacement" have known is their mutated forms, so obviously, they wouldn't want to be replaced. But it's harder for Miwa in particular because she wants to have a "normal" life, but doesn't know anything else but being a literal cat freak. Then there's the Utroms making exception to Leatherhead, who gets a little upset that they want to reverse other mutations.

CyberCubed
03-25-2017, 12:26 AM
It's easy to forget how much controversy there was over IDW's Turtles being reincarnated humans back in 2011. People were rather shocked at the time, but people grew to love it and now nobody really cares or mentions it.

I mean it's hard to believe that was over 7 years ago already.

Utrommaniac
03-25-2017, 12:36 AM
The only problem I have with that is how Michelangelo, and possibly even Raphael, were depicted sleeping with their brothers, when in Japan - especially during the the 1600's, they more likely would have been sleeping with their parents at their age. But, I have determined that they probably just wanted to be with their big brothers, making an early retirement from their parents room. I can imagine that with Raphael for sure, but Michelangelo would have been somewhere around three years old?

It's just a little historical snafu and nothing to make a big deal of, but still.

Tetsu Deinonychus
03-25-2017, 09:33 AM
I think a TMNT show based on Micheal Zulli's version, would be the best take on this.

dragonside
03-25-2017, 09:37 AM
I could definitely see the Turtles not wanting to mutate their mom.

However, for story writing, i think it would be more interesting to see if it happened.

The scenarios for Turtle Mom...

The actual Turtle Mom - It would be an accident, just like every other mutation. I don't know why but I think she would sacrifice herself before she would have the struggle whether or not to be mutated. = Being a mother first, worrying about gaining sapiency later.

The Tang Shen Mom? What if she mutates into a Turtle instead of a Rat? That would be strange for Splinter...

:cry:

IndigoErth
03-25-2017, 12:27 PM
I've wondered that as well, if she mutated into a Turtle. Might be like, "Whelp, guess it's good we have these four, because we sure aren't having a kid of own now." lol

Unless someone wants to stick Karai in there again... The one unmutated human living with her family of mutants? Or Yoshi and Shen leave her on a doorstep in hope of allowing her some kind of normal life? Possibly winding up in bad hands again sooner or later...



And good points on the turtle mom. Definitely at a disadvantage (and hopefully they'd consider that), esp compared to the boys who probably don't even remember being anything other than who they are now. Though it would be an interesting story to see from her point of view, being thrust into a completely different existence. (Granted Nick has done it a little with other characters, but I guess cartoon animals in that world already have more understanding of things than an animal who is just a regular turtle.)

neatoman
03-25-2017, 01:31 PM
Alright, let's make a list of some fantasy elements in TMNT:


Reincarnation
Ghosts
Demons
The Pantheon
Dragons
Magic Swords
"Visions"
Time Scepter


I think the only fantasy trope it hasn't really touched upon is a world made up entirely of fictional places, kind of hard when the main setting is the real world city of New York. In the rare case you don't know what I'm talking about, some examples include Avatar the Last Airbender, Dishonored, The Elder Scrolls, Final Fantasy, Dragon Ball, Discworld, Game of Thrones and pretty much any high fantasy since Lord of the Rings.

So if you really wanted to make it much more fantasy and still be recognisable, I would suggest playing up the elements listed. But if you really, really wanted to go all out, I'd suggest scrapping the real world setting in favor of one that's completely fictional.

Now that I think about it, you could really have some fun with that concept! I'm just going to throw some changes at the wall here that this could bring:

Instead of New York City, it's Larger Appleshire.
Instead of Japan, it's "Across the western sea".
Instead Aliens, The Utroms are wizards who have been reduced to brains.
Likewise, the Triceratons are more akin to the Orcs of Mordor.
Their country can even be called Triceraton.
Fugitoid? You know Full Metal Alchemist, right? He can be like the younger brother there.
The Ooze is now a potion made by the Utroms
Shredder is now an actual war lord rather than just a crime boss
Maybe he can be an Utrom again to give the wizard powers? Or maybe just make him demonic?
Speaking of which, the Sword of Tengu can be included, although it's legitimately magic this time.
You can keep the reincarnation but make it more central.
Baxter Stockman can be like the Mechanists in the Thief games.
This would of course make April his apprentice who gets betrayed.
Casey Jones as the Knight in shining armor? Is that too stupid?
The antique shop... Imagine it has things that downright ancient this time around.
Bishop... Ever played Dishonored? I imagine something similar to the Overseers of the Abbey of the Everyman. Think of it as a religion that's all about rejection of magic and deities. He can even be an actual Bishop.
Renet, Savanti and all that would probably be the same.
The Purple Dragons... What if they're a band of Mercenaries led by a literal Purple Dragon? Or maybe Hun carries a mummified head of a literal Purple Dragon around his neck or something?

Utrommaniac
03-25-2017, 01:43 PM
Nah, Casey would be a rogue :P . Thinking he'd be a knight is like thinking he'd be a detective.

Baxter Stockman and April O'Neil would be more suited alchemists, all things considered.

I am...very, VERY down for Fugitoid being in an Alphonse Elric situation. Brilliant. Layton Honeycutt, an blacksmith-alchemist whose research made him a target by warring kingdoms for his research, and accidentally bound his soul to one of his suits of armor meant for one of his clients.

Utroms as wizards reduced to brains kind of strips them of their "otherworldliness" (I'm amazed that survived spell check), so I can see them as simply a "magical unknown" from another realm, who are alchemists with such incredible ability that they are mistaken for wizards, but they try to argue that it's not quite the same thing.

They probably did have a concept of antiques back then. It's just the slightly older and disused stuff anywhere from a decade or more. But antique shop is only that by name, it would be hard to get things that are actually ANTIQUE. More vintage than anything. So it's possible.

Leatherhead is a moat crocodile (instead of an alligator) that got separated from his nest at hatching and was found by the Utroms. Of course, the change from alligator to crocodile would make him far bigger and more vicious. Or maybe he can be a dragon?

neatoman
03-25-2017, 02:03 PM
Nah, Casey would be a rogue :P . Thinking he'd be a knight is like thinking he'd be a detective.
Was that an intentional jab at OotS? It's pretty funny. :lol:


Baxter Stockman and April O'Neil would be more suited alchemists, all things considered.

I am...very, VERY down for Fugitoid being in an Alphonse Elric situation. Brilliant. Layton Honeycutt, an blacksmith-alchemist whose research made him a target by warring kingdoms for his research, and accidentally bound his soul to one of his suits of armor meant for one of his clients.
I honestly don't know much about FMA, all I know is that Alchemy does more than just turn metal into gold in that universe and the main characters are two brothers trying to fix a mistake they made that led to one of them stuck as a suit of armor. What would this imply for April and Baxter?


Utroms as wizards reduced to brains kind of strips them of their "otherworldliness" (I'm amazed that survived spell check), so I can see them as simply a "magical unknown" from another realm, who are alchemists with such incredible ability that they are mistaken for wizards, but they try to argue that it's not quite the same thing.
Fine, I didn't go there because I felt it still made them too sci-fi.


Leatherhead is a moat crocodile (instead of an alligator) that got separated from his nest at hatching and was found by the Utroms. Of course, the change from alligator to crocodile would make him far bigger and more vicious. Or maybe he can be a dragon?

Haha, nice. TCRI's moat crocodile!:lol:

MsMarvelDuckie
03-25-2017, 02:45 PM
Hmm now I want to play around with my idea of making the tuetles literal kappas found by Yoshi/Splinter as "hatchlings". He could teach them to be good and to help people, while hiding from his enemies (Saki tried to kill him to take his place in the Foot clan hierarchy). Heck I had a fun idea of using a straight fantasy world (I was messing with introducing them into my D&D world) complete with dragons wizards and gods. They could become hidden champions for the kingdom, protecting them from the shadows out of fear of being treated as monsters for their demonic origin.

Utrommaniac
03-25-2017, 04:27 PM
Well, fantasy does do "other realms" quite a lot (demon summoning and the suchlike), and I thought it would fit the Utroms better. "Demons" that would probably have their "portals" as a magic circle. Or fairy circles! They're small little things with complex magic, so they could just be considered really ugly Faer Folk.

But it works...there are stories where fairies aren't the cutesy little pixies that we generally think of them being.

CyberCubed
03-25-2017, 07:10 PM
An entire TMNT series set in feudal Japan would work best and has been done time and time again in the various TMNT cartoons, movies and comics already.

ProphetofGanja
03-25-2017, 07:52 PM
Very cool ideas, neatoman. Kudos

Nah, Casey would be a rogue :P . Thinking he'd be a knight is like thinking he'd be a detective.

I'd say he'd be more of a ranger, stealthy when he needs to be but still a true fighter, not so much the sneak-thief type

An entire TMNT series set in feudal Japan would work best and has been done time and time again in the various TMNT cartoons, movies and comics already.

Well yeah, so I think it's worth developing ideas where the Turtles are in a totally different, fictional "sword & sorcery" type setting. It could still feature a large city, but any technology would be magical in nature. The Turtles' martial arts skills could be elevated to the point of kung fu movie ridiculousness and they could supplement it with some magical abilities. And also they might as well have fantasy anime weapons :lol: imagine Leo toting around a sword as tall as him

Utrommaniac
03-25-2017, 09:21 PM
Oh yeah, a ranger probably would work better.

There probably would be a large city in Feudal Japan that they could be in. Like Kyoto. But yeah, I think that would be a pretty awesome setting.

I stand by April being a Dutch sailor/merchant's daughter in that setting.

neatoman
03-26-2017, 04:19 AM
I stand by April being a Dutch sailor/merchant's daughter in that setting.

Wouldn't Irish make more sense? She's O'Neil after all, not Nelissen.

Candy Kappa
03-26-2017, 04:30 AM
A full on High-Fantasy TMNT? No thanks.

Utrommaniac
03-26-2017, 03:32 PM
Wouldn't Irish make more sense? She's O'Neil after all, not Nelissen.
I think it just makes more sense in the time period. The only Europeans the Japanese worked with in the 1600's were the Dutch, because of their blockade. I guess her Irish father could have worked for the Dutch...as well as her mother being Dutch as as well.

DisKosh
03-26-2017, 04:02 PM
Okay, but get this...what if their parents...were actually, unmutated turtles?

What if they had other siblings who were unmutated turtles?

In some ways though, that could be really sad because they have a constant reminder of where they came from and they may feel that they'll never be able to fit in.

Leatherhead is a moat crocodile (instead of an alligator) that got separated from his nest at hatching and was found by the Utroms. Of course, the change from alligator to crocodile would make him far bigger and more vicious. Or maybe he can be a dragon?

Ooo, I love the dragon Leatherhead idea! As long as he's found by Utroms. I just want one of them to adopt him and raise him as their kid, that needs to be done!

pferreira
03-30-2017, 09:38 AM
Isn't the new Turtles cartoon going to incorporate fantasy elements?

ProphetofGanja
03-30-2017, 10:07 AM
Isn't the new Turtles cartoon going to incorporate fantasy elements?

Yeah, I think the blurb mentioned the Turtles learning to harness their chi to fuel new mystical powers or something like that. They're probably still fleshing-out the idea