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ToTheNines
03-24-2017, 07:15 PM
Saw this today and found it fascinating. Since we have many flop-denialists here when it comes to Bayturtles, Feigbusters and FAKE DCEU, I thought I'd share.

Turns out BVS had an additional promo budget of over 100 mil. Ended up only netting about 105 million for WB, including DVD/Bluray and digital.

Bayturtles 1 is on the list, it made 81.3 million (including home release) back in 2014.

Check it out: https://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman_vs_superman/batman-v-superman-final-profits-tallied-how-much-did-it-really-earn-a149858

sdp
03-24-2017, 07:37 PM
I'm sorry but comicbookmovie.com's calculations are as much speculation as the average industry savvy fan on a forum. Now I'm not quite familiar with the movie industries but analyzing industries is what I basically do for a living and what internet "marks" fail to realize is they only get half the picture and are working without the full canvas, so when you see all these predictions from people who seem to do their research like say that article, no offence but they just don't have enough variables to make an accurate depiction of what something cost a company. I'm not saying those movies made a lot of money either or were worth the investment however.

If it were an article of say the financial times then it'd have more legitimacy but at best all these numbers you see are just guesstimates at best. They fail to have hard numbers of different deals that they make not to mention licensing which is huge for the entertainment industry. Sometimes deals are not about money but different favors companies can do for each other which are hard to quantify as it could be very subjective. As I said I'm not really familiar with the movie industry but I'd say its safe to bet that for most of those examples they at least broke even shortly after. These are big investments and only a few movies that do badly can bankrupt the studio, they're not taking random decisions like casting as Scarlet J. the Major in Ghost in the Shell because of stupidity, they need to go for what's safe. They may make some very bone headed decisions, I won't deny that but they also have people in charge who understand numbers very well and won't produce something that will get them to lose money if it bombs at the box office, they have pillows along the way in case such things happen.

snake
03-24-2017, 07:53 PM
Marketing budget is crazy. I gotta wonder what the MB for TFA or RO was? It's gotta be around the actual budget itself.

sdp
03-24-2017, 07:56 PM
Marketing actually works most of the time though, I've seen literal crap sell well just because of marketing. As long as it's spent wisely it's a must for any product that wants to sell. Quality doesn't sell if it has bad marketing despite what people may say give or take a few exceptions.

snake
03-24-2017, 07:59 PM
Marketing actually works most of the time though, I've seen literal crap sell well just because of marketing. As long as it's spent wisely it's a must for any product.

It's a necessity for sure, but I wonder how much failed toylines contribute to flops. BvS, Feigbusters, OOTS, all had toylines clogging up the pegs that you can still find now. That's gotta take out a significant chunk of the movie's worth to a studio, right?

CyberCubed
03-24-2017, 08:01 PM
Man of Steel only made 42 million? Hot damn, how did they not see the warning signs back then? Holy crap, it sounds like an almost bomb.

sdp
03-24-2017, 08:10 PM
Those things are on a contract by contract basis, some enterprises can make the same profit from the toyline regardless if it sold well or not and it's the loss of the toy company, while some keep a percentage of profits from the toy lines and in those cases they do lose big if it doesn't do well. Regardless of the contract, it's definitely bad news if the toyline doesn't sell well as not only do you p-ss off your license partners that you work with on different properties and not just this one but you also p-ss off retailers that carry your ___ brand and it sours up relationships which makes it more difficult for future projects to get the go ahead.

A company like DC though can mask (no pun intended) bad sales through the IP though; so say the BatmanVSuperman toys peg warmed but they sold X amount of Batman and Superman T-Shirts which they can correlate those sales to the movie even if they weren't branded as BvS and had the generic logo. These companies are huge and analyzing them are full time jobs. So unless you make an econometric model you have guesstimates, which are fine, I also love posting my 2 cents online but fandoms are so passionate they start using these as gospel.

Man of Steel only made 42 million? Hot damn, how did they not see the warning signs back then? Holy crap, it sounds like an almost bomb.

It wasn't a random decision for BvS to come out 3 years later and to change Man of Steel 2 into Man of Steel 2:Featuring Batman and then to Batman V Superman.

CyberCubed
03-24-2017, 08:13 PM
I also don't get it, where do the salaries of the actors, director, writers, music people, etc. all come from? Does their salary come from the profits of the movie or do they get paid separately from the company itself, and then that's deduced from the overall profits of the movie?

Like you hear some actors make $10 million+ a movie, and then you realize do you cut off 10 million sales out of the movie gross? I don't get it.

sdp
03-24-2017, 08:17 PM
I believe all of those are part of the productions costs of the movie, that's also why hollywood movies are so expensive.

If you're a big name actor you can get a cut of the profits of the movie like Harrison Ford did for Episode VII, it depends on the contract and how much sway you have when negotiating it, obviously Joe Nobody is going to get paid squat and he's going to like it.

ToTheNines
03-24-2017, 08:42 PM
I'm sorry but comicbookmovie.com's calculations are as much speculation as the average industry savvy fan on a forum. Now I'm not quite familiar with the movie industries but analyzing industries is what I basically do for a living and what internet "marks" fail to realize is they only get half the picture and are working without the full canvas, so when you see all these predictions from people who seem to do their research like say that article, no offence but they just don't have enough variables to make an accurate depiction of what something cost a company. I'm not saying those movies made a lot of money either or were worth the investment however.

If it were an article of say the financial times then it'd have more legitimacy but at best all these numbers you see are just guesstimates at best. They fail to have hard numbers of different deals that they make not to mention licensing which is huge for the entertainment industry. Sometimes deals are not about money but different favors companies can do for each other which are hard to quantify as it could be very subjective. As I said I'm not really familiar with the movie industry but I'd say its safe to bet that for most of those examples they at least broke even shortly after. These are big investments and only a few movies that do badly can bankrupt the studio, they're not taking random decisions like casting as Scarlet J. the Major in Ghost in the Shell because of stupidity, they need to go for what's safe. They may make some very bone headed decisions, I won't deny that but they also have people in charge who understand numbers very well and won't produce something that will get them to lose money if it bombs at the box office, they have pillows along the way in case such things happen.

They got their info from a Deadline article. Guess you didn't read it.

TheSkeletonMan939
03-24-2017, 09:05 PM
On its own it's quite interesting, though "ranking" it against other recent films gives off the impression that "Ant-Man" made as much money for Marvel as BvS did for DC. I mean, it did (apparently), but the production costs and situations behind each of those film were very different.

Andrew NDB
03-24-2017, 09:19 PM
Saw this today and found it fascinating. Since we have many flop-denialists here when it comes to Bayturtles, Feigbusters and FAKE DCEU, I thought I'd share.

Turns out BVS had an additional promo budget of over 100 mil. Ended up only netting about 105 million for WB, including DVD/Bluray and digital.

Bayturtles 1 is on the list, it made 81.3 million (including home release) back in 2014.

Check it out: https://www.comicbookmovie.com/batman_vs_superman/batman-v-superman-final-profits-tallied-how-much-did-it-really-earn-a149858

These are FAKE numbers. Female Ghostbusters made HELLA money!

sdp
03-24-2017, 10:02 PM
They got their info from a Deadline article. Guess you didn't read it.

I did read it but I fail to see how that changes anything that I mentioned, deadline is not what stock brokers read I can assure you.

Hell you just made me click again and there it is "Deadline Hollywood has crunched the available numbers and best estimates from Hollywood insiders"

snake
03-24-2017, 10:08 PM
These are FAKE numbers. Female Ghostbusters made HELLA money!
Just look at all the toys they sold! I know I want to buy my cheaply made, out of shape, middle aged woman toy for $20!
http://news.toyark.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2016/04/Ghostbusters-2016-Mattel-Released-001.jpg

Andrew NDB
03-24-2017, 10:11 PM
That's funny, I'd already forgotten all of the names aside from Holtzman.

snake
03-24-2017, 10:17 PM
How could you forget such memorable and lovable characters like Patty or, uh, a̶n̶n̶i̶e̶ Abby?

T1r3agtqEcw

Wildcat
03-24-2017, 10:28 PM
If I read it right, when comes down to it the studio actually makes less on movies than it seems?

I've never paid attention to sales numbers. My only problem is when people show them to try and prove thier own opinions about a movie. Used to see on IMBD too.

They're not doing to compare profit margins. Nobody on the "inter-webz" sincerely cares about any of that.

Candy Kappa
03-25-2017, 04:19 AM
Movie productions rarely releases the full budget they actually spent on movies, so we'll never know 100% how much they lost or earned, since the released production budget may have a lesser number then it actually is, and marketing isn't included, and that budget can be as high as the production budget at times.

Hence why the often used rule of thumb is, if a movie's box office makes twice the money of the released number of the production budget, it breaks even, nothing earned nothing lost.

I've also seen some use 2.5 times the budget to break even.

CyberCubed
03-25-2017, 02:33 PM
When you actually read stuff like this it makes you wonder how any of these movies/tv companies actually turn a profit.