PDA

View Full Version : No more TMNT/Batman cross-over... I want the Man of Steel!!!


Jephael
03-25-2017, 11:36 PM
You know for a while there's been all this speculation over what two iterations of the Ninja Turtles and Batman will intertwine in a third cross-over, though to be totally honest I'm getting sick of it always being just the Dark Knight. Sure he's the most popular hero in the history of geek culture, but guess what? He's not the only friggin super hero that exists.
Give somebody else from the realm of DC Comics a god-d@mn turn to team up with the green teens!!! How about say...

http://media.virbcdn.com/cdn_images/resize_1024x1365/84/bfde4e9020828721-1416666jpg_superman_christopher_reeve_super.jpg

Now this is who I'd like to see the Fred Wolf or maybe even the Archie comics Ninja Turtles team up with!!! I mean come on, the whole idea of April O' Neil being a reporter was inspired by Lois Lane. How cool would it be to see those two journalists meet? Though to be totally honest, I'd prefer it if they went with the Dean Cain/Teri Hatcher version from the 90s for this one. That's just my 2 cents.

One final note:
I dare anyone... ANYONE to tell me they don't get a bit choked up when they hear this iconic musical piece!!!
You'd have to not have a soul if this didn't move you.

e9vrfEoc8_g

LeotheLateBloomer
03-26-2017, 10:32 AM
Even with the FW turtles, they still have nothing in common. If anything, I'd rather see a crossover with Daredevil.

kaptainmyke
03-26-2017, 10:53 AM
Even with the FW turtles, they still have nothing in common. If anything, I'd rather see a crossover with Daredevil.

With Eastman's love for Frank Miller and the DD run, I'd like to see this as well.

snake
03-26-2017, 11:15 AM
Batman/TMNT actually fit together. Superman would offer nothing.

Count me in for a Daredevil crossover though.

ToTheNines
03-26-2017, 11:23 AM
Here's the next 10 years worth of DC/IDW crossovers:

Fred Wolf meets Batman '66
Barron TMNT meets Burton
4kids meets The Batman
TMNT '07 meets Beware the Bat
Bayturtles meets Batfleck
Rise meets Brave and the Bold
Mirage meets The Dark Knight

THEN they can crossover with Supes.

ProphetofGanja
03-26-2017, 12:17 PM
I just really want to see the Turtles crossover with Spider-Man one day

ToTheNines
03-26-2017, 01:12 PM
I just really want to see the Turtles crossover with Spider-Man one day

Daredevil works, for obvious reasons. Spidey would be great too, and he can basically crossover with anyone due to the depth and variety of his villains.

I personally think that Supes (along with Flash) has the most underrated rogues gallery in all of comics, I just don't see the fun in the TMNT fighting any of them. Or the significance of Kal-El vs. Oroku Saki.

Me personally? I want TMNT/Fantastic Four, written by Mark Waid.

Btown
03-26-2017, 01:34 PM
I'd easily pass on reading anything that would have the turtles team up with superman. I'm with the majority that a daredevil crossover needs to happen. I wish they could come together and make it happen for us fans.

Candy Kappa
03-26-2017, 01:36 PM
Superman is not a good fit for the Turtles.

Daredevil is the most obvious hero suited for a crossover, but I'd love to see what a Iron Fist & Power Man team-up with TMNT would be.

neatoman
03-26-2017, 01:40 PM
Can he fight the Silver Sentry?
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/c/c1/SilverSentry_btts.png/revision/latest?cb=20080929164724

ProphetofGanja
03-26-2017, 01:45 PM
I personally think that Supes (along with Flash) has the most underrated rogues gallery in all of comics, I just don't see the fun in the TMNT fighting any of them. Or the significance of Kal-El vs. Oroku Saki

Yeah, Superman could just blast Saki with his laser vision, or punch him at super-sonic speed, or fly him up into space where Saki would die. There's no even footing, it's an unfair fight. That's why Superman just isn't a compelling character to me, he's way too powerful.


Me personally? I want TMNT/Fantastic Four, written by Mark Waid.

Wow, that would be really good

***First of Two Latin Kings***
03-26-2017, 02:50 PM
Superman in an IDW crossover might not be so bad, if it meant Ch'rell in a Kryptonite powered exo-suit.

FredWolfLeonardo
03-26-2017, 03:01 PM
Atleast with batman and tmnt, they both are "normal" and have similar power levels. Superman on the other hand is on a completely different level. Unless the Shredder has kryptonite, what chance does he have against Superman who can fly faster than the speed of light, have punches as powerful as millions of nukes and survive being inside the sun.

CyberCubed
03-26-2017, 03:20 PM
X-men crossover next, although I don't know if Marvel likes to crossover with IDW like DC has done.

neatoman
03-26-2017, 03:28 PM
X-men crossover next, although I don't know if Marvel likes to crossover with IDW like DC has done.

Doesn't Marvel try to keep the X-Men on a short leash because of Disney and Fox's squabbling?

ToTheNines
03-26-2017, 04:39 PM
That's been cooling down, as of late.

AquaParade
03-26-2017, 05:37 PM
Daredevil and TMNT deserve a crossover for sure. Marvel seein the great sales that the Batman and TMNT accomplished, would hopefully get them thinking.

Miller and Eastman would be the ideal team-up, but not likely.
Even so, I'd give it a look, no matter who they put on it.

And sure, I guess I'd check out a tmnt x Superman crossover too.

turtlefanforever
03-26-2017, 07:48 PM
i'm down with more crossovers but with superman i don't really "see" it. ya know? i didn't think of the April/Lois connection though. that's nice.

everyone keeps bringing up Marvel characters. This is a DC thread. and on that note...

There are many other DC characters/groups i'd like to see crossover more than Superman, namely

TMNT meets Teen titans (obvious one)
Static Shock

Andrew NDB
03-26-2017, 08:01 PM
Mirage meets The Dark Knight

Now we're talking. Or Mirage meets Daredevil.

Ninjinister
03-26-2017, 10:09 PM
Outside of the Capcom games I don't think Marvel does crossovers anymore.

Honestly if we get a new TMNT/DC I would like to see Green Lantern.

Jephael
03-27-2017, 02:23 PM
Here's the next 10 years worth of DC/IDW crossovers:

Fred Wolf meets Batman '66
Barron TMNT meets Burton

Okay, how about a compromise here? Can the Fred Wolf/Archie TMNT meet Tim Burton/Joel Schumacher Batman? Seriously, F*CK Adam West Batman!!!

FredWolfLeonardo
03-27-2017, 02:29 PM
Okay, how about a compromise here? Can the Fred Wolf/Archie TMNT meet Tim Burton/Joel Schumacher Batman? Seriously, F*CK Adam West Batman!!!

I never liked the association of the FW turtles as the "Adam west turtles". I find it inaccurate really because while FW was goofy, it wasn't anywhere as over the top and all completely whacko as 66 batman was. Unlike that show, the FW turtles weren't self aware to the point where they didn't take anything seriously AT ALL. They would still take threats seriously and worry when they weren't sure they could make it out alive. Sure there were many jokes along the way but it isnt like they could just pull out some anti villain spray and call it a day.

Jephael
03-27-2017, 02:34 PM
I never liked the association of the FW turtles as the "Adam west turtles". I find it inaccurate really because while FW was goofy, it wasn't anywhere as over the top and all completely whacko as 66 batman was. Unlike that show, the FW turtles weren't self aware to the point where they didn't take anything seriously AT ALL. They would still take threats seriously and worry when they weren't sure they could make it out alive. Sure there were many jokes along the way but it isnt like they could just pull out some anti villain spray and call it a day.

^^ THIS!!! Besides, atleast if they were to go with Val Kilmer/George Clooney Batman and Chris O' Donnell Robin they'd exist in basically the same era as the Fred Wolf TMNT.

neatoman
03-27-2017, 02:42 PM
I never liked the association of the FW turtles as the "Adam west turtles". I find it inaccurate really because while FW was goofy, it wasn't anywhere as over the top and all completely whacko as 66 batman was. Unlike that show, the FW turtles weren't self aware to the point where they didn't take anything seriously AT ALL. They would still take threats seriously and worry when they weren't sure they could make it out alive. Sure there were many jokes along the way but it isnt like they could just pull out some anti villain spray and call it a day.

9Titnm-e1N0

Jephael
03-27-2017, 03:02 PM
Whatever, dude. Everybody's entitled to their opinion.

neatoman
03-27-2017, 03:05 PM
Whatever, dude. Everybody's entitled to their opinion.

Yeah but it doesn't make said opinion any less funny.

AquaParade
03-27-2017, 03:12 PM
i'm down with more crossovers but with superman i don't really "see" it. ya know? i didn't think of the April/Lois connection though. that's nice.

everyone keeps bringing up Marvel characters. This is a DC thread. and on that note...

There are many other DC characters/groups i'd like to see crossover more than Superman, namely

TMNT meets Teen titans (obvious one)
Static Shock

Let's not limit ourselves here more than we need to.

The thread proposes a Superman x TMNT crossover. I'd say suggesting other TMNT crossover's is appropriate enough.

FredWolfLeonardo
03-27-2017, 03:21 PM
Yeah but it doesn't make said opinion any less funny.

You had a good laugh, I'm happy with that. Now to give you some more laughs:

I first was introduced to the turtles via the 2k3 series/2007 movie and not FW. My first exposure to the FW series was turtles forever and not the actual show itself.

I found it really funny and then decided to check out the show on youtube, expecting looney tunes/animaniacs but with turtles. Turns out what I saw for the first 5 episodes wasn't anywhere as non-serious as I imagined.

Infact, season 1 actually left me feeling like I was introduced to something really epic. While not dark, it was still awesome to see heroes that while cracking jokes, were still competent and skilled fighters. Krang's backstory as a warlord intrigued me, the turtles felt like they really cared about what they did, the villains (while incompetent), still felt like a threat who would come milliseconds away from destroying the turtles on many occassions, only to lose at the end, many occassions just by sheer luck.

Call me crazy, but I respect the FW turtles and I can see them as warriors with a passion who will fight to the death if its necessary for the greater good. Not like turtles forever where they could cry and run away. I absolutely would not watch 193 episodes of a cartoon with no heart where the main characters (or should I say caricatures) are getting into noogies, tickles fight and cry/run away in the face of danger, not knowing when to take situation seriously. Even if the show's a toy commercial at its very core, it doesn't mean it can't have heart.

It reminds me of Christopher Reeve superman in many ways and to answer the original question of the thread, while I think there's a huge power difference between a universal being and slightly above average human strength turtles, I could see the FW turtles saving Reeve's superman from a kryptonite attack and then both shaking hands and introducing themselves.

Meanwhile, Gene Hackman's Luthor plots with FW Shredder and Krang in the technodrome to take over the world, in return for Australia and decides to have Otis mutated into a giant cow to help Bebop and Rocksteady.

Seeing Channel Six and The Daily Planet exchange banter would be pretty awesome as well. It would especially be funny if the turtles don't recognize Clarke. Nice parallel between that and the turtles' trench coat disguises that nobody in public seems to be able to see through.

Vernon would probably put down clarke for this wimpy demeanor, but then Lois and April would immediately then shut him down. Irma would most likely fall for both Clarke and Jimmy Olsen, but would go after Olsen after discovering from April that Clarke is actually Superman and that Lois has feelings for him.

Candy Kappa
03-27-2017, 03:50 PM
Pairing up FW and Batman '66 isn't an insult, though, they are very compatible.

Both are campy fun with colorful comedic villains and situations, both are self-aware crime fighters with crazy invention to do said crime fighting and both have visually Pai-in-face type fighting scenes that are dealt in-universe as mortal combat.

DestronMirage22
03-27-2017, 03:53 PM
I think that a crossover with Superman would be a horrible idea. He's a bland, one-dimensional Gary Stu character who would just hog up all the crossover.

FredWolfLeonardo
03-27-2017, 03:55 PM
Pairing up FW and Batman '66 isn't an insult, though, they are very compatible.

Both are campy fun with colorful comedic villains and situations, both are self-aware crime fighters with crazy invention to do said crime fighting and both have visually Pai-in-face type fighting scenes that are dealt in-universe as mortal combat.

Very true, while I think its inaccurate to the call the FW turtles the Adam West of the franchise and think they have differences, I would be all for them having a crossover, it would be quite a blast at the very least.

Jephael
03-27-2017, 03:56 PM
Call me crazy, but I respect the FW turtles and I can see them as warriors with a passion who will fight to the death if its necessary for the greater good. Not like turtles forever where they could cry and run away. I absolutely would not watch 193 episodes of a cartoon with no heart where the main characters (or should I say caricatures) are getting into noogies, tickles fight and cry/run away in the face of danger, not knowing when to take situation seriously. Even if the show's a toy commercial at its very core, it doesn't mean it can't have heart.

It reminds me of Christopher Reeve superman in many ways and to answer the original question of the thread, while I think there's a huge power difference between a universal being and slightly above average human strength turtles, I could see the FW turtles saving Reeve's superman from a kryptonite attack and then both shaking hands and introducing themselves.

Meanwhile, Gene Hackman's Luthor plots with FW Shredder and Krang in the technodrome to take over the world, in return for Australia and decides to have Otis mutated into a giant cow to help Bebop and Rocksteady.

Seeing Channel Six and The Daily Planet exchange banter would be pretty awesome as well. It would especially be funny if the turtles don't recognize Clarke. Nice parallel between that and the turtles' trench coat disguises that nobody in public seems to be able to see through.

Vernon would probably put down clarke for this wimpy demeanor, but then Lois and April would immediately then shut him down. Irma would probably fall for both Clarke and Jimmy Olsen, but would go after Olsen after discovering from April that Clarke is actually Superman and that Lois has feelings for him.

I had another thought that sort of pertains to something the Richard Donner movies never delved into since Superman was always on Earth throughout those films. Say the TMNT and Clark have to go to Dimension X for some reason. Without the Earth's yellow sun, Superman is totally powerless.

Andrew NDB
03-27-2017, 04:08 PM
I never liked the association of the FW turtles as the "Adam west turtles". I find it inaccurate really because while FW was goofy, it wasn't anywhere as over the top and all completely whacko as 66 batman was.

You're dreaming.

FredWolfLeonardo
03-27-2017, 04:11 PM
I had another thought that sort of pertains to something the Richard Donner movies never delved into since Superman was always on Earth throughout those films. Say the TMNT and Clark have to go to Dimension X for some reason. Without the Earth's yellow sun, Superman is totally powerless.

That would be a nice balance. Superman helps the turtles defeat universal level threats on Earth, and the turtles help Superman defeat the enemies in Dimension X. I'm actually liking this idea more, the more I think about it.

I could see them both defeating enemies with the FW battle theme playing, followed by the iconic superman theme as they are victorious and have to help save innocent people.

They both share the same values. Truth, Justice and the American Way. I've lost count of how many times the FW turtles have taken offense to an American landmark being put in jeapordy by the villains :lol: Infact, after meeting him, FW Leo would probably start saying "For truth, Justice and the American Way" Just as much as Turtle Power and the other turtles would call him out on it.

CyberCubed
03-27-2017, 04:17 PM
X-men would fit perfectly:

Cyclops = Leonardo
Wolverine = Raphael
Donatello = Beast
Michelangelo = Iceman
Splinter = Prof. Xavier

ToTheNines
03-27-2017, 07:23 PM
I never liked the association of the FW turtles as the "Adam west turtles". I find it inaccurate really because while FW was goofy, it wasn't anywhere as over the top and all completely whacko as 66 batman was. Unlike that show, the FW turtles weren't self aware to the point where they didn't take anything seriously AT ALL. They would still take threats seriously and worry when they weren't sure they could make it out alive. Sure there were many jokes along the way but it isnt like they could just pull out some anti villain spray and call it a day.

Sounds to me like you don't have that strong of a grasp on either show. I say that as a fan of both.

Let's not limit ourselves here more than we need to.

The thread proposes a Superman x TMNT crossover. I'd say suggesting other TMNT crossover's is appropriate enough.

He's a troll. Ignore him.

Pairing up FW and Batman '66 isn't an insult, though, they are very compatible.

Both are campy fun with colorful comedic villains and situations, both are self-aware crime fighters with crazy invention to do said crime fighting and both have visually Pai-in-face type fighting scenes that are dealt in-universe as mortal combat.

This. I meant no insult, but the parallel is painfully obvious.

I think that a crossover with Superman would be a horrible idea. He's a bland, one-dimensional Gary Stu character who would just hog up all the crossover.

Some people just don't get Supes.

John Pannozzi
03-27-2017, 08:26 PM
Outside of the Capcom games I don't think Marvel does crossovers anymore.

They've done crossovers with Attack on Titan and Space Brothers (http://www.cbr.com/iron-man-meets-space-brothers-in-manga-crossover/), but otherwise they just stick to other Disney-owned properties.

LeotheLateBloomer
03-27-2017, 09:01 PM
Pairing up FW and Batman '66 isn't an insult, though, they are very compatible.

Both are campy fun with colorful comedic villains and situations, both are self-aware crime fighters with crazy invention to do said crime fighting and both have visually Pai-in-face type fighting scenes that are dealt in-universe as mortal combat.

Exactly. And it's not a matter of which is arguably campier than the other. The main point is that they both have a similar tone and both created Bat Mania and Turtle Mania to where each respective property became more mainstream franchises. And crossing FW/Archie with Joel Schumacher is an insult to either series because those films are considered the low point of Batman which would imply that FW and Archie are considered hot garbage. One could easily crossover TMNT 3 with this era of Batman but even crossing over the PD turtles is too cruel for even Joel. I mean come on, at least Joel apologized for his mistakes. Then again, both versions have their own Chris O' Donnell character.:lol:

I feel that FW has a bigger chance to crossover than Archie because that comic series is even deader than Mirage. Me on a personal level, loved Archie as a kid but I just can't attach myself to the stories as an adult. Way too many mutants for my liking and it just feels like I'm reading an above average fan-fiction comic, which is also the same issue I have with their Sonic the Hedgehog comics. Though their MegaMan comics are pretty interesting. No offense to anyone who likes them, it's just a personal indifference.

I just feel that Daredevil is a better fit since they partially inspired the origin story.

CyberCubed
03-27-2017, 09:14 PM
I feel that FW has a bigger chance to crossover than Archie because that comic series is even deader than Mirage. Me on a personal level, loved Archie as a kid but I just can't attach myself to the stories. Way too many mutants for my liking and it just comes off as fan-fiction, which is also a problem I have with their Sonic the Hedgehog comics. Though their MegaMan comics are pretty interesting. No offense to anyone who likes them.
.

There's no more mutants in Archie than there is in the current Nick cartoon. Both are overloaded with mutants. The only real difference is the Nick mutants tend to rear towards the "monster or creature" side, whereas the Archie mutants are of course the old style "talking animal" mutants. Of course there are exceptions in both, since characters like Tiger Claw or Fishface would fit right in with Archie.

LeotheLateBloomer
03-27-2017, 09:36 PM
I know, again it's just a personal opinion.

neatoman
03-28-2017, 03:24 AM
You had a good laugh, I'm happy with that. Now to give you some more laughs:

Infact, season 1 actually left me feeling like I was introduced to something really epic. While not dark, it was still awesome to see heroes that while cracking jokes, were still competent and skilled fighters. Krang's backstory as a warlord intrigued me, the turtles felt like they really cared about what they did, the villains (while incompetent), still felt like a threat who would come milliseconds away from destroying the turtles on many occassions, only to lose at the end, many occassions just by sheer luck.


Much like the last three seasons, season 1 almost seems to exist in a world seperate from the others, just a little less so. Once Shredder attempts to drag the turtles through the mud by having students from a random strip mall dojo commit crimes while wearing paperbag masks, I'd say it's more than enough reason to give up the idea that it is "something epic". What episode was that again? Oh right, first episode of the second season!
https://i2.wp.com/www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/tmnt2_002.jpg?w=1200


Call me crazy, but I respect the FW turtles and I can see them as warriors with a passion who will fight to the death if its necessary for the greater good. Not like turtles forever where they could cry and run away. I absolutely would not watch 193 episodes of a cartoon with no heart where the main characters (or should I say caricatures) are getting into noogies, tickles fight and cry/run away in the face of danger, not knowing when to take situation seriously. Even if the show's a toy commercial at its very core, it doesn't mean it can't have heart.



It seems more like you enjoy the show for what you can project on to it, rather than what it actually is.

Jephael
03-28-2017, 11:02 AM
It seems more like you enjoy the show for what you can project on to it, rather than what it actually is.

Isn't that kinda what we all do, not just with the cartoons but every iteration of the characters? Like when I started my Jephaelverse fan fiction, it was based primarily in the Fred Wolf cartoon (circa 1992) yet I chose to give those Turtles some characteristics from other iterations from that same time, like the live action films. In the end we all have different views on how these guys are meant to act, which we pick and chose from certain versions. That's kinda the point I'm making here.

I prefer to generalize which version of the TMNT would fit with Batman in regards to era than tone. Something about the 2012 Nick TMNT with the '90s animated Batman just didn't feel right. If anything it should be 2012 Nick TMNT with the current JLA cartoon, or the '90s animated Batman with the Fred Wolf TMNT circa red sky era.

FredWolfLeonardo
03-28-2017, 01:50 PM
It seems more like you enjoy the show for what you can project on to it, rather than what it actually is.

I guess that's kinda true, since I'm the type of guy to choose to like a show first and then enjoy the episodes unlike it being the opposite way around for many people. Basically die hard loyalty to the show.

At the same time though, I didn't go into the FW show with high expectations as I had already seen Nick season 1 and a bit of 4kids so I thought they were naturally better being newer. But watching the FW show for the first time not knowing what would come was a great experience..

Even nowdays, I watch many of the episodes again with some being all my all time favourites that Ive watched Atleast 15 times over the last 4 years (Michealangalos birthday and Cowabunga Shredhead). I can name off far more episodes off the top of head of FW than Nick and 4kids combined, and its usually the only the turtles show where I still want to rewatch old episodes (maybe due to them not being serial in nature).

ToTheNines
03-28-2017, 09:42 PM
(Michealangalos birthday and Cowabunga Shredhead)

Those are classic episodes, but it's pretty odd that you cite those 2 when you're trying to argue the show isn't completely ridiculous. Change the characters and a few other things, and you could have used those scripts on Batman '66.

Jephael
03-28-2017, 09:50 PM
Those are classic episodes, but it's pretty odd that you cite those 2 when you're trying to argue the show isn't completely ridiculous. Change the characters and a few other things, and you could have used those scripts on Batman '66.

I would've cited "Take Me To Your Leader"; that's a pretty good one, and the villains' plot to absorb the sun actually sounds like something Lex Luthor might have tried to pull off in the 80s.

ToTheNines
03-28-2017, 09:58 PM
Another favorite of mine. But still... Leo leaves the team because he smacked himself in the head with a training sword? Because he had one bad dream about losing? Pretty silly. Plus, wouldn't Splinter pick the next leader? I don't see how "spin the pizza" was necessary lol.

Don't mean to sound like I'm hating, but the whole show is silly. Which is what it's supposed to be: silly fun.

CyberCubed
03-28-2017, 10:23 PM
Many episodes of the original show were meant to be parodies of 50's sci-fi movies or concepts. The plots were ridiculous on purpose, like all the episodes with robots, the Earth going into the sun or disappearing, all the aliens, all the changing personality episodes with amnesia or body swapping, many of the mutant/giant monster episodes, etc.

ToTheNines
03-28-2017, 10:27 PM
The plots were ridiculous on purpose

Translation = campy.

The #1 word used to describe the Adam West Batman show.

FredWolfLeonardo
03-29-2017, 12:27 AM
Those are classic episodes, but it's pretty odd that you cite those 2 when you're trying to argue the show isn't completely ridiculous. Change the characters and a few other things, and you could have used those scripts on Batman '66.

I never argued the show wasn't ridiculous, of course it is. The very concept of Ninja turtles itself is ridiculous and that applies to every incarnation, not just FW.

What I'm arguing is that despite the concepts and plots of most episodes being outright ridiculous, the turtles themselves are respectable characters (not caricatures) who are competent fighters and had a passion for what they did.

Thats what Turtles Forever got wrong. They got the ridiculous show aspect right, but the turtles wrong. Look at Nostalgia Critic's real thoughts on tmnt movies and Rob Walkers thoughts on turtles forever from 32:45-34:45 , he sums it up perfectly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Q80Wi03vA

Jephael
03-29-2017, 12:35 AM
Another favorite of mine. But still... Leo leaves the team because he smacked himself in the head with a training sword? Because he had one bad dream about losing? Pretty silly. Plus, wouldn't Splinter pick the next leader? I don't see how "spin the pizza" was necessary lol.

Don't mean to sound like I'm hating, but the whole show is silly. Which is what it's supposed to be: silly fun.

Also, don't forget that wacky Technodrome fight dream sequence in the very beginning of the episode, that kinda began Leo being all insecure in the first place. Jeez, it feels kinda like I'm kinda shooting myself in the foot here.

neatoman
03-29-2017, 03:13 AM
Another favorite of mine. But still... Leo leaves the team because he smacked himself in the head with a training sword? Because he had one bad dream about losing? Pretty silly. Plus, wouldn't Splinter pick the next leader? I don't see how "spin the pizza" was necessary lol.

Don't mean to sound like I'm hating, but the whole show is silly. Which is what it's supposed to be: silly fun.

Also, don't forget that wacky Technodrome fight dream sequence in the very beginning of the episode, that kinda began Leo being all insecure in the first place. Jeez, it feels kinda like I'm kinda shooting myself in the foot here.

There's also an episode where he decides to leave because he's afraid of snakes. It's bizarre that there even are episodes about him doubting his leadership, he had no real reason to do so since his team always ended up successful in the end. If there weren't any losses and the worst possible scenarios were either easily reversable consequences or a standstill they were already in, what's there to cry about?

"Congratulations, you have a perfect track record!"
"But I had a nightmare about poodles! What's a perfect track record next to that?"

I never argued the show wasn't ridiculous, of course it is. The very concept of Ninja turtles itself is ridiculous and that applies to every incarnation, not just FW.

What I'm arguing is that despite the concepts and plots of most episodes being outright ridiculous, the turtles themselves are respectable characters (not caricatures) who are competent fighters and had a passion for what they did.

Thats what Turtles Forever got wrong. They got the ridiculous show aspect right, but the turtles wrong. Look at Nostalgia Critic's real thoughts on tmnt movies and Rob Walkers thoughts on turtles forever from 32:45-34:45 , he sums it up perfectly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Q80Wi03vA

FW Leonardo (the character, not you), as mentioned before, decided to leave the team not because of failure but because he had an irrational nightmare. Between the fourth wall breaks, slapstick and the absurd decisions they made, I can't honestly call them "respectable".

As for "competent"? The bulk of their victories were against two squabbling idiots leading another pair of idiots, not exactly hard to win in that situation, is it?

FredWolfLeonardo
03-29-2017, 04:45 AM
FW Leonardo (the character, not you), as mentioned before, decided to leave the team not because of failure but because he had an irrational nightmare. Between the fourth wall breaks, slapstick and the absurd decisions they made, I can't honestly call them "respectable".

The setup was ridiculous intentionally as a part of the show being a self-aware parody but what Leo went through and overcame at the very end (fear of being a failure and a bad leader) is still something we can all relate to. Even in a ridiculous set-up, I can still see through it and appreciate the heart while still being amused by the corniness. I love Cam Clarke's performance in that episode.

Similarly, there's the episode "Michelangelo's Birthday" where the reason for Mikey drooling around the city and leaving his brothers is nothing more then that they "forgot" his birthday. Ridiculous set up sure, but Mikey's performance as feeling sad and lonely was what shined for me. Thats part of what I love about the show, that even in midst of all the nonsensical setups, the performaces are still passionate and heartfelt. I did not see that in Turtles Forever, did you?

As for "competent"? The bulk of their victories were against two squabbling idiots leading another pair of idiots, not exactly hard to win in that situation, is it?

Well from a turtles' perspective it wasn't hard, but this was a world where the people were mostly helpless and without the turtles, Shredder and Krang would've won long ago so in their world, they were being competent by defeating them and keeping the city safe. The turtles made it look very easy to defeat them, but wasn't that always kinda the point? Against everybody else, even the foot soldiers are dangerous but the turtles always were there to save the day.

Even besides that, the FW turtles have shown many legitimate moments of being skilled fighters of Ninjitsu who worked together very well as a team and fought off some very dangerous threats over the series. Just cuz they used the environment alot in cartoony ways doesn't mean they weren't good.

neatoman
03-29-2017, 05:41 AM
The setup was ridiculous intentionally as a part of the show being a self-aware parody but what Leo went through and overcame at the very end (fear of being a failure and a bad leader) is still something we can all relate to. Even in a ridiculous set-up, I can still see through it and appreciate the heart while still being amused by the corniness. I love Cam Clarke's performance in that episode.

Similarly, there's the episode "Michelangelo's Birthday" where the reason for Mikey drooling around the city and leaving his brothers is nothing more then that they "forgot" his birthday. Ridiculous set up sure, but Mikey's performance as feeling sad and lonely was what shined for me. Thats part of what I love about the show, that even in midst of all the nonsensical setups, the performaces are still passionate and heartfelt. I did not see that in Turtles Forever, did you?


I haven't really brought up Turtles Forever, I've just been arguing that there isn't any reason to take them seriously. The characters aren't really the straightmen in the silly setups, they still act silly and come up with silly solution. This isn't "Batman the Brave the Brave and the Bold" where the humor comes from the main character being almost entirely serious, it has more in common with Darkwing Duck where the main character thinks he's serious but really isn't.

As for their potrayal in Turtles Forever, here's how I see it:

Is it exagerated? Yes, a little, it was necessary to highlight the differences between the shows or else it would be pointlessly fellating nostalgia without any purpose to the work itself. Turtles Forever needed to make sense on it's own and have something resembling a point, if the FW Turtles just showed up without the high-lighting what would be the point? They would just be a bunch of pointless characters clogging up screen time.

Is it unfair? Not really, I think the "noogie" gag was probably based on the "wet willy" gag from TMNT III and that's out of place, but the rest of it? Almost everything else was taken directly from the show. They did make fun of their enemies to their faces, they run around in broad daylight without disguises (just watch a random episode, they pretty much only use disguises when going to a store or something, otherwise they're fine with moving around broad daylight), they did avoid using their weapons in favor of random objects, they did break the fourth wall, they did make equipment out junk, etc. The reasoning for this potrayal didn't come out of nothing.


Well from a turtles' perspective it wasn't hard, but this was a world where the people were mostly helpless and without the turtles, Shredder and Krang would've won long ago so in their world, they were being competent by defeating them and keeping the city safe. The turtles made it look very easy to defeat them, but wasn't that always kinda the point? Against everybody else, even the foot soldiers are dangerous but the turtles always were there to save the day.

Even besides that, the FW turtles have shown many legitimate moments of being skilled fighters of Ninjitsu who worked together very well as a team and fought off some very dangerous threats over the series. Just cuz they used the environment alot in cartoony ways doesn't mean they weren't good.


I honestly struggle trying to think of a single time Shredder/Krang did anything that even remotely resembled competent, especially when the turtles weren't around to stop them. Could you give any examples?
I think you're focusing too much on handful of particular moments rather than the meat of the issue. There might be some legitimately intimidating threats, but the majority of them aren't, most are like that guy who wanted to steal bones because he had a dog gimmick.

FredWolfLeonardo
03-29-2017, 06:04 AM
The characters aren't really the straightmen in the silly setups, they still act silly and come up with silly solution. This isn't "Batman the Brave the Brave and the Bold" where the humor comes from the main character being almost entirely serious, it has more in common with Darkwing Duck where the main character thinks he's serious but really isn't.

I never suggested any of that. I suggested that despite the ridiculous setups, their performances were still heartfelt and passionate. That can be serious depending on the situation, but not always like batman in "Brave and the Bold" like you suggested. Or like the turtles always acting one-note in turtles forever, while in the show and Nick's crossover they felt much more dynamic and not like caricatures.



I honestly struggle trying to think of a single time Shredder/Krang did anything that even remotely resembled competent, especially when the turtles weren't around to stop them. Could you give any examples?
I think you're focusing too much on handful of particular moments rather than the meat of the issue. There might be some legitimately intimidating threats, but the majority of them aren't, most are like that guy who wanted to steal bones because he had a dog gimmick.


1. "Shredderville", although that episode was a dream its pretty self explanatory. Besides that, I can't think of many times the turtles weren't there to stop them, they almost always were.

2. I never argued that most of the villains were intimidating, most weren't. I argued that the FW turtles were a skilled and competent team, hence they were able to take on those few big threats effectively. When at the end of the series, Splinter acknowledges all 4 of them as equals to him and ninja masters after they defeated Giant Dregg having the powers of the most powerful aliens in the galaxy multiplied a hundred fold, that really says something to me.

In defense of Shredder and Krang, they were very incompetent yes (even the show acknowledged this) but they certainly were threatening. There's a difference. They both were always defeated by the turtles at the end of every episode, but not before having almost eliminated them on many occassions. Its not like many of their schemes wouldn't have worked if the turtles didn't stop them at the last second.

neatoman
03-29-2017, 07:28 AM
I never suggested any of that. I suggested that despite the ridiculous setups, their performances were still heartfelt and passionate.


That's more of argument about the acting rather than portrayal of the characters. You can cast Orson Welles as Porky Pig, let Shakespeare write it and get Francis Ford Coppola to direct, it's still going to be Porky Pig no matter how well it's made. Here's Patrick Stewart voicing a coked up lunatic.
cAkl0_Fs3kc
Silly is just silly.
The Turtles themselves were silly, even if they had relatively serious moments, "relative" being a key word here.

My own opinion of the performances though... I don't really feel it myself though. I guess Avery and Paulsen are good, some of the less used actors like Jay and Cummings are also good but I don't really like most of the other ones. Cam Clarke I don't really like in particular, maybe because I had to endure an absurd amount of time listening to him ramble on about genetic engineering.
reYtlKm0mjo

I don't like the Nick crossover, it comes across as forced and pointless. It's not all the well written either, just feels like a remake of Turtles Forever without the appropriate pacing or set-up. And as I far as I see it, there isn't much difference in the portrayal. I'd much rather take something well written and paced over something that's at best slightly more accurate to a show I don't even like.


1. "Shredderville", although that episode was a dream its pretty self explanatory. Besides that, I can't think of many times the turtles weren't there to stop them, they almost always were.

2. I never argued that most of the villains were intimidating, most weren't. I argued that the FW turtles were a skilled and competent team, hence they were able to take on those few big threats effectively. When at the end of the series, Splinter acknowledges all 4 of them as equals to him and ninja masters after they defeated Giant Dregg having the powers of the most powerful aliens in the galaxy multiplied a hundred fold, that really says something to me.

Wasn't the Shredderville world one where Krang was just sitting around being useless while Shredder's rule mainly sucked because he was too tied up with paperwork to get anything done?

Anyway, what tangible reason do we have to assume Dregg is more competent than the villains he replaced? He was better with public relations but that's about it, he still failed over and over again.


In defense of Shredder and Krang, they were very incompetent yes (even the show acknowledged this) but they certainly were threatening. There's a difference. They both were always defeated by the turtles at the end of every episode, but not before having almost eliminated them on many occassions. Its not like many of their schemes wouldn't have worked if the turtles didn't stop them at the last second.

But of course that would just have lead to a world in which they ended up a glorified bureaucrat with a burnout and a couch potato.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 07:36 AM
I honestly struggle trying to think of a single time Shredder/Krang did anything that even remotely resembled competent, especially when the turtles weren't around to stop them. Could you give any examples?
I think you're focusing too much on handful of particular moments rather than the meat of the issue. There might be some legitimately intimidating threats, but the majority of them aren't, most are like that guy who wanted to steal bones because he had a dog gimmick.


You know now that I think about it most of the people behind the original cartoon (atleast from 1989 to 1991) might've actually been trying to emulate/pay homage to both the Christopher Reeve Superman films and the Adam West Batman series. Even when the badguys had a decent idea to take over the world, something silly kind of overshadowed it. There was that episode where they tried to overheat the planet, though once again it was overshadowed by a ridiculous sub-plot... in this case Shredder's mother being involved.

That being said however, whenever David Wise wrote a script he had a way of making things a little more realistic and edgier, but only just so much. Season 7 is a prime example (and no, I am not referring to the Europe episodes) Wise wrote pretty much that entire season, and he really knew how to up the stakes. He'd put the TMNT and their friends into real dangerous situations and even made Shredder himself much more menacing and sadistic than other writers would. Shredder even tried to kill April by running her over with a mini Technodrome at the end of that "Planet of the Turtleoids" special, and during the season 7 finale Bebop and Rocksteady attepted to push April, Irma and Vernon out of a 30th story window in the Channel 6 News building. Now come on, don't tell me that wasn't a little dark, especially for a '90s cartoon!!!

FredWolfLeonardo
03-29-2017, 08:16 AM
That's more of argument about the acting rather than portrayal of the characters. You can cast Orson Welles as Porky Pig, let Shakespeare write it and get Francis Ford Coppola to direct, it's still going to be Porky Pig no matter how well it's made.

It could be an arguement about the portrayal as well. And its a silly portrayal yes definetly, but they did have comparitively balanced personalities rather than being outright Looney Toons. Watching any 80s episode, the turtles go through a wide range of emotions: happiness, worry, regret, anger, sadness etc. And I love the voice cast for bringing it to life.

Wasn't the Shredderville world one where Krang was just sitting around being useless while Shredder's rule mainly sucked because he was too tied up with paperwork to get anything done?

Haha its true their "rule" was a complete disaster but Atleast they managed to get something done (conquer New York) while the turtles were gone so there's that :D

Anyway, what tangible reason do we have to assume Dregg is more competent than the villains he replaced? He was better with public relations but that's about it, he still failed over and over again.

Last episode of the series: He gets a new powerful exo skeleton and absorbs the power of the five most powerful aliens in the galaxy while multiplying it a hundred fold, I already stated this. Even if he was technically incompetent for it as the turtles beat him, I still pay huge respect to the FW turtles for managing such a feat considering how powerful Dregg was in the last episode. Splinter even told them they were Ninja masters who were his equals at the end so I think its safe to say that the FW turtles were amazing warriors who can get the job done. What do you think?

neatoman
03-29-2017, 08:46 AM
You know now that I think about it most of the people behind the original cartoon (atleast from 1989 to 1991) might've actually been trying to emulate/pay homage to both the Christopher Reeve Superman films and the Adam West Batman series. Even when the badguys had a decent idea to take over the world, something silly kind of overshadowed it. There was that episode where they tried to overheat the planet, though once again it was overshadowed by a ridiculous sub-plot... in this case Shredder's mother being involved.

Yeah, that's true. There's even a similar episode involving the earth being drawn closer to the sun, by a device built by Vernon's nephew for a science fair. So there's no doubt about something silly usually being out into the forefront.


That being said however, whenever David Wise wrote a script he had a way of making things a little more realistic and edgier, but only just so much. Season 7 is a prime example (and no, I am not referring to the Europe episodes) Wise wrote pretty much that entire season, and he really knew how to up the stakes. He'd put the TMNT and their friends into real dangerous situations and even made Shredder himself much more menacing and sadistic than other writers would. Shredder even tried to kill April by running her over with a mini Technodrome at the end of that "Planet of the Turtleoids" special, and during the season 7 finale Bebop and Rocksteady attepted to push April, Irma and Vernon out of a 30th story window in the Channel 6 News building. Now come on, don't tell me that wasn't a little dark, especially for a '90s cartoon!!!

For as much as I don't like David Wise, it has more to do with his dishonesty about credit, laziness in order crank out as many episodes as possible and the actual quality of his writing, rather than how the end result actually is. He's not good in any legitimate sense but he's at least entertaining in stupid kind of way.

For example, you know how in the comics the Triceratons wanted get their hands on a teleportation device for a tactical advantage? David Wise threw that out so he could make them invade planets at random, only invade species not primarily occupied by reptiles, have them get tricked by animatronics in the end and throw in a b-plot about Donatello becoming a Batman parody.
Is it intelligent? No. Does the change to Triceratons make them better? No. Does it at least put a new and interesting spin on them? No, it just makes them dumber. What about the B-Plot? Almost completely unrelated and kind of pointless, the two plots really only come together at the end in a clumsy way (the animatronics).
But at least it's such an absurd mess it's still entertaining, even if it's not in the intentional way.

Another non-TMNT example would be the Clock King episode of Batman.
Again, it hinges on a weak narrative and the changes made to the Clock King doesn't really add anything to the character. However, seeing the villain try to humiliate/kill a guy (it changes in the episode for no good reason) for giving good advice that lead to an accident involving a gust of wind. The narrative is of course pretty weak and falls apart the instant you think about it, but that what makes it amusing.

So yes, while Wise is not really a good writer, he is at least more entertaining than the other FW writers (even if it is for his flaws).

Jephael
03-29-2017, 09:21 AM
For example, you know how in the comics the Triceratons wanted get their hands on a teleportation device for a tactical advantage? David Wise threw that out so he could make them invade planets at random, only invade species not primarily occupied by reptiles, have them get tricked by animatronics in the end and throw in a b-plot about Donatello becoming a Batman parody.
Is it intelligent? No. Does the change to Triceratons make them better? No. Does it at least put a new and interesting spin on them? No, it just makes them dumber. What about the B-Plot? Almost completely unrelated and kind of pointless, the two plots really only come together at the end in a clumsy way (the animatronics).
But at least it's such an absurd mess it's still entertaining, even if it's not in the intentional way.

Actually, you got it backwards. Donatello dressing up as a Batman rip off was the main plot, hence the episode title "Night of the Dark Turtle" and the Triceratons invading was just a subplot. Though after learning of how they were depicted in the Mirage comics, I totally agree with you on how poorly they were used in the cartoon. Looking back, maybe it's a good thing the dudes at Fred Wolf never did anything with Fugitoid, except a random appearance in one of the video games.

neatoman
03-29-2017, 12:33 PM
Actually, you got it backwards. Donatello dressing up as a Batman rip off was the main plot, hence the episode title "Night of the Dark Turtle" and the Triceratons invading was just a subplot. Though after learning of how they were depicted in the Mirage comics, I totally agree with you on how poorly they were used in the cartoon. Looking back, maybe it's a good thing the dudes at Fred Wolf never did anything with Fugitoid, except a random appearance in one of the video games.

Oh right, I guess that would make it the B-plot... It just seems a little odd the alien invasion is the B-plot.

Anyway, what's so funny about said episode is that it should not be that hard to rewrite. The Triceratons could invade Earth because a human scientist have developed a weapon they want, Donatello's story could have been about protecting this weapon and in the end the Triceratons are defeated by it. They would be more like their comic book counterparts and the episode would feel less like it smashed two different scripts together.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 03:14 PM
Oh right, I guess that would make it the B-plot... It just seems a little odd the alien invasion is the B-plot.

Anyway, what's so funny about said episode is that it should not be that hard to rewrite. The Triceratons could invade Earth because a human scientist have developed a weapon they want, Donatello's story could have been about protecting this weapon and in the end the Triceratons are defeated by it. They would be more like their comic book counterparts and the episode would feel less like it smashed two different scripts together.

Ooh and that scientist's name could've been Professor Honeycutt, or some variation of it.

FredWolfLeonardo
03-29-2017, 03:31 PM
Ooh and that scientist's name could've been Professor Honeycutt, or some variation of it.

Alot of characters who didn't appear in the cartoon, I always saw other similar characters as their "counterparts" if that makes sense. For e.g. Lotus Blossom is FW's version of Karai, MACC is their version of fugitoid and the time travellers Landor and Merrick from Red Sky are this show's version of Renet.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 03:36 PM
Alot of characters who didn't appear in the cartoon, I always saw other similar characters as their "counterparts" if that makes sense. For e.g. Lotus Blossom is FW's version of Karai, MACC is their version of fugitoid and the time travellers Landor and Merrick from Red Sky are this show's version of Renet.

Interesting point, although keep in mind some of those characters were also somewhat based on characters of other properties. MACC was clearly a parody of Johnny 5 from Short Circuit; Lotus Blossom could be based on any number of lady ninjas from old kung fu movies; finally Landor and Merrick could easily be an amalgam of Back to the Future's Marty and Doc, Quantum Leap's Sam and Al and of course Bill and Ted, just with one of them gender swapped.

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 03:37 PM
Alot of characters who didn't appear in the cartoon, I always saw other similar characters as their "counterparts" if that makes sense. For e.g. Lotus Blossom is FW's version of Karai, MACC is their version of fugitoid and the time travellers Landor and Merrick from Red Sky are this show's version of Renet.

Well Karai wasn't even created until 1992 in Mirage, by that point the original cartoon was already in its 6th season.

People forget Lotus Blossom pre-dates Karai by about 3 years.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 03:40 PM
Well Karai wasn't even created until 1992 in Mirage, by that point the original cartoon was already in its 6th season.

People forget Lotus Blossom pre-dates Karai by about 3 years.

I'm willing to bet Eastman and Laird didn't even know of Lotus Blossom. Heck, they weren't even aware of the fact that somebody gave Baxter Stockman a twin brother who was still human in some random episode during season 4.

FredWolfLeonardo
03-29-2017, 03:48 PM
I'm willing to bet Eastman and Laird didn't even know of Lotus Blossom. Heck, they weren't even aware of the fact that somebody gave Baxter Stockman a twin brother who was still human in some random episode during season 4.

I read from somewhere quite a while back , I think it was from Peter Laird's blog, that he watched the first 3 seasons of the FW cartoon but lost interest after, so he must've known about Lotus.

neatoman
03-29-2017, 04:36 PM
I read from somewhere quite a while back , I think it was from Peter Laird's blog, that he watched the first 3 seasons of the FW cartoon but lost interest after, so he must've known about Lotus.

He could have given up somewhere within the third season or simply forgot about her.

Well Karai wasn't even created until 1992 in Mirage, by that point the original cartoon was already in its 6th season.

People forget Lotus Blossom pre-dates Karai by about 3 years.

Nobody cares about Lotus Blossom.

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 04:39 PM
A female Japanese ninja is so common it's kind of expected one would be introduced, nearly every series does.

Original cartoon had Lotus Blossom, Mirage had Karai, Image introduced Pimiko, Mirage later on introduced Tang Shen's sister in Tales who wore Shredder-esque armor, Archie had Ninjara, Nick has Shinigami, Tournament Fighters had Aska, there's Mitsu from Movie III, etc.

Nobody cares about Lotus Blossom.

This is wrong, many people liked her.

Andrew NDB
03-29-2017, 04:49 PM
This is wrong, many people liked her.

Probably like 20.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-29-2017, 07:35 PM
Probably like 20.

That many? Really? I give it Cubed and five others.

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 07:42 PM
That many? Really? I give it Cubed and five others.

I'm sure there are many fans, her episodes were well reviewed.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 11:14 PM
I'm sure there are many fans, her episodes were well reviewed.

Hey if Mona Lisa can be so popular just by that one measly appearance in season 4, Lotus Blossom's recurring appearance should trump that. Then again, it's all about quality over quantity.

FredWolfLeonardo
03-30-2017, 01:18 AM
Hey if Mona Lisa can be so popular just by that one measly appearance in season 4, Lotus Blossom's recurring appearance should trump that. Then again, it's all about quality over quantity.

Well she appeared by only one episode more so not much. I've seen some FwLeo/Lotus fans but the RaphLisa shipping just went outright crazy because of one episode.

Speaking of ships, alot of people criticize the Nick show for the shippings (looking at you Apriltello) but FW also had the formula of giving the turtle each a crush:

1. Leonardo = Lotus Blossom
2. Raphael = Mona Lisa
3. Michealangalo = Kala
4. Donatello = Arguably Irma by alot of fans but I always saw him as crushing more on April.

Jephael
03-30-2017, 02:45 AM
Well she appeared by only one episode more so not much. I've seen some FwLeo/Lotus fans but the RaphLisa shipping just went outright crazy because of one episode.

Speaking of ships, alot of people criticize the Nick show for the shippings (looking at you Apriltello) but FW also had the formula of giving the turtle each a crush:

1. Leonardo = Lotus Blossom
2. Raphael = Mona Lisa
3. Michealangalo = Kala
4. Donatello = Arguably Irma by alot of fans but I always saw him as crushing more on April.

To be fair April was like that with all four Turtles throughout the show. You can honestly take any episode or scene where she's being affectionate towards one of them and make a big stink about it.

FredWolfLeonardo
03-30-2017, 03:58 AM
To be fair April was like that with all four Turtles throughout the show. You can honestly take any episode or scene where she's being affectionate towards one of them and make a big stink about it.

Yeah I guess you're right. Its probably Nick Apriltello which caused me to notice the FW moments between them more. The other turtles also had their own specific crushes so I was always left thinking Donnie crushes on April or Irma in that series, but its left very vague so I guess we'll never know for sure.

Jephael
03-30-2017, 06:23 AM
Yeah I guess you're right. Its probably Nick Apriltello which caused me to notice the FW moments between them more. The other turtles also had their own specific crushes so I was always left thinking Donnie crushes on April or Irma in that series, but its left very vague so I guess we'll never know for sure.

A friend of mine is obsessed with the idea of Leonardo and April being a thing in the original cartoon, simply based on a couple scenes where Leo heroically saved her and stuff, but as I said you could take any moment like that between her and Mikey or Raphael and say the same thing about her being close with either of them.

Lisardo
03-31-2017, 12:08 AM
A friend of mine is obsessed with the idea of Leonardo and April being a thing in the original cartoon, simply based on a couple scenes where Leo heroically saved her and stuff, but as I said you could take any moment like that between her and Mikey or Raphael and say the same thing about her being close with either of them.

I see her as being closer with Leo somewhat, and he's her protector in the OT. I guess not a 'thing' like the Apritello tho.