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Rooish
03-26-2017, 11:25 AM
In many versions of TMNT, April has so little going on that she can accept four mutated turtles and a rat into her life, take them into her apartment, and hang out with them constantly, apparently with no one noticing. In Mirage she tries to break free from the madness in City at War, only to realize that there's not much for her in the human world and she might as well go back to the Turtles. She then proceeds to date and then marry a violent alcoholic (I know that there is absolutely no reason to believe he is ever violent to her) who is quite the loser in his own right. Seeing as she is endlessly smarter than Casey in all incarnations, it seems that their attraction is based on some sort of bond regarding the Turtles and the fact that they can never have normal lives after meeting the Turtles.

In the Nick cartoon she is pretty open about not fitting in and being a misfit, but I don't think it's acknowledged very much in other interpretations.

In the Fred Wolf cartoon she does have quite her own life outside of the Turtles and never bonds with them as intensely as in the other versions.

I just think it's interesting that the Turtles' main links to the human world are two people who are totally incompatible with it. We do get to hear April's opinions about this sometimes, but I think that the franchise as a whole does not really focus on the feelings of its main human character and the fact that she is a total misfit. Usually I think the image that the casual fan gets of April is that she is an attractive, spunky, happy person--somehow.

I don't mean that she's a loser in a judgmental way. Just saying it needs to be called as it is.

CyberCubed
03-26-2017, 11:29 AM
This thread is anti-feminist and if it was posted on tumblr you'd get a 10 page rant from females saying how much of a positive role model she is.

Rooish
03-26-2017, 11:32 AM
I am a feminist. My point is not that, because she is a loser, she should be ridiculed for that. I find her hugely sympathetic and think there should be more focus on what it's like to be in her shoes, as someone who literally can become BFF with four Turtles and a rat and no one in her life notices, because she hardly has anyone in her life. I think she could be a positive role model for girls, I just am surprised that she isn't considered more of a woman that misfit girls who have trouble making friends and go their own way can relate to.

ToTheNines
03-26-2017, 11:47 AM
Yeah, I always wanted to see a version of April that was new to NYC and from a suburban/rural-ish area. She doesn't fit in or particularly like life in the big city, then boom: she meets the turtles.

She's never portrayed as antisocial, so it is pretty weird that she apparently has no friends or life outside work.

CyberCubed
03-26-2017, 11:52 AM
I don't get it, wasn't Irma her friend in the OT? They went out to a lot of places together and also had dinner together in Irma's apartment in Season 2.

ToTheNines
03-26-2017, 11:54 AM
April was a self-centered asshole in the OT.

Rooish
03-26-2017, 11:55 AM
I don't get it, wasn't Irma her friend in the OT? They went out to a lot of places together and also had dinner together in Irma's apartment in Season 2.

In my first post I mentioned the OT was an exception. I don't think you actually read it.


She's never portrayed as antisocial, so it is pretty weird that she apparently has no friends or life outside work.

Yeah it's odd. This is why I guess she could be more of a role model for girls who have trouble making friends even when there's nothing "wrong" with them.

CyberCubed
03-26-2017, 11:58 AM
In the IDW comics she did have a friend in College she was talking to before she met the TMNT. It's in the first couple of issues. She was also friends with Lindsey at Stocktronics.

ToTheNines
03-26-2017, 12:03 PM
Yeah it's odd. This is why I guess she could be more of a role model for girls who have trouble making friends even when there's nothing "wrong" with them.

I agree (and boys too, for that matter). Unfortunately most writers either can't or won't tell good stories focusing on her.

Rooish
03-26-2017, 12:17 PM
(and boys too, for that matter)

Yeah for sure. The only reason I didn't mention them was I assumed boys are usually socialized not to identify with female role models.

GoldMutant
03-26-2017, 12:29 PM
I do feel the exploration of the human characters, especially April, to be rather underutilized. At least with Casey beginning in 2k3 has the Hun establishment (Hun even being his father in IDW). O'Neil on the other hand lacks a decent narrative most of the time, her backstory at times different especially.

If possible, a dynamic I thought that'd be nice is for Casey to be introduced to the Turtles first, not April like in most TMNT media. Outside that, it'd be interesting to have April either be graduating around the first season of a TMNT show or beginning college. Here, she could show she's got strong intelligence and work as Baxter's assistant as an intern. With crime running rampant, she could take an interest in photography/criminology. Combines both worlds together in terms of occupation.

Additionally, if later in a series, it'd also be worth having Shadow finally appear in animated form. Besides having the big sister angle with the Turtles, it could also increase bonds with other characters if Shadow were babysat by the Turtles and lead to interesting possibilities. Lastly, just give April a fun episode once in a while; Karai's Vendetta from the Nickelodeon series is a good example of April being handled decently as the solo focus, just depends on writer and story.

Granted, most of what I said is primarily wishful thinking but it'd be nice to expand the horizons more for not just April, but human characters, both male and female, altogether a bit more.

Prowler
03-26-2017, 01:01 PM
April was a self-centered asshole in the OT.
Well, I think it was a realistic portrayal of journalists, actually. They do tend to be stubborn and always looking for stories, since it's their job.

Yeah for sure. The only reason I didn't mention them was I assumed boys are usually socialized not to identify with female role models.
I was like 5-6 years old when I first watched the FW series. I saw the TMNT as if they were cool older brothers and April more like as an adult who happened to be their friend. I didn't see her as a "girl". When you're a 5-6 year old boy you think girls have cootie but not grown women. That being said, obviously April wasn't my hero nor could I relate to her.

plastroncafe
03-26-2017, 01:14 PM
I don't think Mirage April is a loser. I don't think there any arguing that she's lonely, but I don't think she's a loser.

When we meet her she's got a job with Stockman, and is arguably a grad student of some kind. She lives in what was once her now terminally ill father's building which houses his slowly circling the drain business. And she's the only one left to do all of this, because her sister is in California.

That's a lot of heavy stuff for one person to deal with with little to know support system.

Then the turtles show up and she's got a support system in them.
Then the turtles bring their own drama into her life and she loses everything she has and then goes into hiding.

I do wish more was done with her, because...that's the making of a really compelling story, but unfortunately when you're the token female of a property you don't get to be just any woman, you've got to be EVERY woman.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-26-2017, 01:42 PM
Mirage April was anything but a loser.

Mirage Casey? Total loser. Fun character, but in the real world, a broken useless loser.

CyberCubed
03-26-2017, 01:57 PM
I hated April's hair in the Mirage comics. It was so hideous looking.

Thank god her hair changed to more natural looking hairstyles and colors in recent series. I also find it funny now April is always a redhead when originally she had curly black hair.

***First of Two Latin Kings***
03-26-2017, 02:01 PM
Not really... Casey refuses to bail on a woman who is pregnant with another man's child, marries her, and them raises her child into a fairly well-adjusted adult after her mother dies. A lot of men in today's world don't even want to take responsibility for their own children.

Casey is rough around the edges and has a lot of deep-seeded emotional problems, but he has a big heart and is always trying to do the right thing. He's only violent towards men if the deserve it, and I can't recall him ever being physically or emotionally abusive towards a woman. He has no choice but to love them and try to save them because he desperately needs the validation.

plastroncafe
03-26-2017, 02:08 PM
Sure, by the end of it yes. But when we're first introduced to Arnold Casey Jones he's a just a dude who becomes a street Thug vigilante because he watched way too much trashy television.

Meeting the turtles made his life better, where arguably meeting the turtles made April's life worse.

If we ignore the fact that if not for them she'd be dead.

Cryomancer
03-26-2017, 03:07 PM
April's life was kind of screwed at the time anyway. Even if Stockman didn't kill her, she'd have end up losing her job at least, when he got busted eventually. Unless it can go on without him, but it kind of seemed like it wasn't exactly a huge business, and presumably all it's resources were going to something totally illegal anyway.

Lisardo
03-26-2017, 03:10 PM
I'm not sure "loser"'s the right word. As others have said, "outcast" maybe. Or I dunno, maybe she's someone who's not super outgoing or has a huge social life, but yet finds a group of people to blend in with. I also have noticed she doesn't seem to have much of a life outside the turtles. Sure work/school (depending on the version), but she does hang out with them a lot.

Rooish
03-26-2017, 03:15 PM
I didn't mean to put down April, y'all. I guess I meant that I could see her being viewed by some in society as a loser. Which adds an interesting dimension to her character.

Sure, by the end of it yes. But when we're first introduced to Arnold Casey Jones he's a just a dude who becomes a street Thug vigilante because he watched way too much trashy television.

Not to mention he drunkenly kills some kid by accident. You'd think that would be a bit of a red flag for April.

It was a definite sign of character growth for him to be there for a woman who was pregnant with a baby that wasn't his, and to care for said baby after her death. It could have just been a one night stand. This is definitely the part in the series where he transcended his loser-dom, if you will. I think he had more character growth than April ever did.

I hated April's hair in the Mirage comics. It was so hideous looking.

It was the 80's. And TMNT artists have never been too good at drawing humans. Did you prefer Casey's mullet?

plastroncafe
03-26-2017, 03:18 PM
I think April and Casey sort of settled for each other.
Which isn't to say there's no love there, but let's be honest...after all they've been through, their baggage matches.

Kind of like Peeta and Katniss.

Rooish
03-26-2017, 03:20 PM
I think April and Casey sort of settled for each other.
Which isn't to say there's no love there, but let's be honest...after all they've been through, their baggage matches.

Kind of like Peeta and Katniss.

Spoiler alert!

Yeah, it's kind of a trauma bond.

It's just interesting that these human characters on the sidelines of the series have so much baggage that only gets partly explored.

DisKosh
03-26-2017, 03:35 PM
Not really... Casey refuses to bail on a woman who is pregnant with another man's child, marries her, and them raises her child into a fairly well-adjusted adult after her mother dies. A lot of men in today's world don't even want to take responsibility for their own children.

Casey is rough around the edges and has a lot of deep-seeded emotional problems, but he has a big heart and is always trying to do the right thing. He's only violent towards men if the deserve it, and I can't recall him ever being physically or emotionally abusive towards a woman. He has no choice but to love them and try to save them because he desperately needs the validation.

This is why I love Casey. He's not perfect but he tries and he cares, all he wants to do is make the world a safer place, sure his methods are flawed but he's certainly a chaotic good.
Although on this topic, anyone else get slightly annoyed in the Image comics? I mean there was a subplot about Casey and April being low on money so of course they do the sensible thing and make the guy with a poor employment record go out and get a job while the woman with a degree and plenty of work experience in well a paid field stays at home and takes care of the kid. :tconfuse:
I just felt as though the only reason for it was because he was a man, but really it makes no sense. April seemed to enjoy working with computers and surely there's be somewhere in that field employing. Casey lost a job due to anger issues, but he is an amazing father. Wouldn't it make sense for him to take care of Shadow? Furthermore, when they were living in Northampton I think April was the only one working to support them all so I don't get why she couldn't have done that again.

Basically, I love pretty much every character in this franchise because when you really look at them, there's a lot of depth and potential. The problem is that it's often underused. I'd love to see a version that gives the human characters interesting arcs, to tell you the truth, my favourite arcs in City at War (Mirage comics) were April and Casey's.

Rooish
03-26-2017, 04:20 PM
This is why I love Casey. He's not perfect but he tries and he cares, all he wants to do is make the world a safer place, sure his methods are flawed but he's certainly a chaotic good.
Although on this topic, anyone else get slightly annoyed in the Image comics? I mean there was a subplot about Casey and April being low on money so of course they do the sensible thing and make the guy with a poor employment record go out and get a job while the woman with a degree and plenty of work experience in well a paid field stays at home and takes care of the kid. :tconfuse:
I just felt as though the only reason for it was because he was a man, but really it makes no sense. April seemed to enjoy working with computers and surely there's be somewhere in that field employing. Casey lost a job due to anger issues, but he is an amazing father. Wouldn't it make sense for him to take care of Shadow? Furthermore, when they were living in Northampton I think April was the only one working to support them all so I don't get why she couldn't have done that again.

Basically, I love pretty much every character in this franchise because when you really look at them, there's a lot of depth and potential. The problem is that it's often underused. I'd love to see a version that gives the human characters interesting arcs, to tell you the truth, my favourite arcs in City at War (Mirage comics) were April and Casey's.

Yeah... the Image series was not the most progressive version of the TMNT franchise, as indicated by Pimiko's super functional ninja outfit.

Also, as much credit as Casey deserves for sticking with Gabrielle and adopting Shadow, April deserves even more for adopting Shadow. There's another degree of separation between her and Shadow than Casey has. She is taking on a child for the rest of her life with a guy she was not even sure about.

It just shows the depths of importance of "chosen family" in the TMNT franchise, which is cool.

CyberCubed
03-26-2017, 04:36 PM
Also April in Nick is only 16. What major friends would a teenager have?

oldmanwinters
03-26-2017, 05:05 PM
In any incarnation, she has a very small circle of friends. And the most important things in her life tend to involve the Turtles. Nothing wrong with that, I guess.

DisKosh
03-26-2017, 05:07 PM
Also April in Nick is only 16. What major friends would a teenager have?

Most teenagers have a group of friends at school. I wasn't even one of the popular kids and I had a main friendship group and plenty of acquaintances.

Rooish
03-26-2017, 05:10 PM
In the Nick toon, if I recall, she acknowledges she is a bit of an outcast. Hopefully younger folks without friends can identify with her.

What's weird is that she is even more friendless in Mirage and 2003 series and this is never even a plot point (except in Mirage's City at War). Like she was kind of just waiting for the Turtles to happen to her.

ToTheNines
03-26-2017, 05:17 PM
Also April in Nick is only 16. What major friends would a teenager have?

Wtf does that even mean?

IndigoErth
03-26-2017, 05:27 PM
Also April in Nick is only 16. What major friends would a teenager have?
Uh, most have friends...

Granted Nick April's main friend turned out to be a Kranng android, so maybe she's overly cautious now and has a hard time accepting new people.

Although it's kind of nice that maybe she's now got both Karai and Shini.



Eh, I've never really seen April as any kind of loser. Other versions of her, at least those I'm mainly familar with, just seemed like a very career focused woman and the complete counter opposite of FW Irma. I just figured she had at least a little more of a life 'off camera' that we didn't/don't see much of.

CyberCubed
03-26-2017, 06:38 PM
I wouldn't say most 16 year olds have many friends. I mean sure you talk to people in school, but close friends you invite to your home or go out with, etc? Probably only a small handful.

sdp
03-26-2017, 06:42 PM
How could she be a loser with such breasts?

It's no longer a mystery as a Technodrome resident did all the research required to find this information out and boy did he get to some conclusions.

CyberCubed
03-26-2017, 06:44 PM
Funny thing is I never noticed April's breasts in the OT, but that may obviously have to do with the fact that I was like 3-8 years old for the majority of the cartoons run, and April was the last thing I was thinking about while watching it.

Rooish
03-26-2017, 07:05 PM
How could she be a loser with such breasts?

It's no longer a mystery as a Technodrome resident did all the research required to find this information out and boy did he get to some conclusions.

Huh? What the hell you talking about?

CyberCubed
03-26-2017, 07:41 PM
Huh? What the hell you talking about?

He's talking about this guy who has an unhealthy obsession with her:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/member.php?u=3942

***First of Two Latin Kings***
03-26-2017, 07:52 PM
If we ignore the fact that if not for them she'd be dead.

If you have to ignore a fact in order to make a case, doesn't that void your case?

DisKosh
03-26-2017, 07:54 PM
He's talking about this guy who has an unhealthy obsession with her:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/member.php?u=3942

Yeah, I get really liking a character. Hell I like her too, she's awesome. But adding 'drooling over April O'Neil' under interests is a bit... unusual.

***First of Two Latin Kings***
03-26-2017, 08:00 PM
Yeah, I get really liking a character. Hell I like her too, she's awesome. But adding 'drooling over April O'Neil' under interests is a bit... unusual.

Not if you're a straight male or a tomboy lesbian it isn't. She's been far more sexualized than any other female TMNT character, including Renet.

CyberCubed
03-26-2017, 08:02 PM
Not if you're a straight male or a tomboy lesbian it isn't. .

LOL, what is a tomboy lesbian?

IndigoErth
03-26-2017, 08:42 PM
I don't think being a tomboy has any specific orientation requirements...

Coola Yagami
03-26-2017, 08:53 PM
I don't think being a tomboy has any specific orientation requirements...

I think he meant the more manly lesbian that goes for the more girly lesbians. It's not that hard to figure out ya know.

IndigoErth
03-26-2017, 09:06 PM
It was in response to Cube's confusion.

***First of Two Latin Kings***
03-26-2017, 09:06 PM
Everybody knows you have your Lipstick Lesbians, and then you have your Lumberjack Lesbians.

CyberCubed
03-26-2017, 09:10 PM
OT April is neither girly nor tomboyish, she's sort of inbetween the two.

Rooish
03-26-2017, 09:12 PM
You mean like a butch? Implying April is the femme? I am pretty sure many lesbians don't require the dichotomy. I've seen couple that appear to be both "lipstick" or both "tomboy" or whatever.

At any rate, she does have nice breasts and all, but somehow in many versions she has no friends or apparent love interests.

CyberCubed
03-26-2017, 09:13 PM
but somehow in many versions she has no friends or apparent love interests.

She's literally paired with Casey in every single series besides a few.

Rooish
03-26-2017, 09:17 PM
She's literally paired with Casey in every single series besides a few.

I mean before him. And he is not that amazing a catch. They pretty much bond because both of their lives have been upended by the Turtles.

***First of Two Latin Kings***
03-26-2017, 10:01 PM
Nothing can compare to the beauty of two lipstick lesbians. I know they exist.

I can see how some of you would consider her in between femme and tomboy. That yellow jumpsuit is pretty hideous.

plastroncafe
03-26-2017, 10:09 PM
No one cares about your boner.

ProphetofGanja
03-26-2017, 10:11 PM
No one cares about your boner.

What a great quote

CyberCubed
03-26-2017, 11:16 PM
Anyone find it funny April consistently gets younger in every incarnation? In Mirage she starts off as a woman (probably late 20's and then goes into her early 30's), then she gets gradually younger with each version.

Original cartoon she was 28

4kids she was 23

IDW she's a College student, so around 19-20 at the beginning I imagine

Nick she's literally a 16 year old teen


April literally went from a mature woman to more young girl or teen for each newer generation.

DisKosh
03-26-2017, 11:28 PM
Anyone find it funny April consistently gets younger in every incarnation? In Mirage she starts off as a woman (probably late 20's and then goes into her early 30's), then she gets gradually younger with each version.

Yeah, I think I read somewhere that she's 27 at the beginning of Mirage.

I think they changed it because it may come across as creepy having an adult woman hanging out with a bunch of teenage boys. I personally prefer that approach because she's more like a mother figure to them and I find that really sweet.

CyberCubed
03-26-2017, 11:31 PM
Well the Turtles never really acted like teens in either the original cartoon or 4kids, so it didn't feel much different. It felt like April was just interacting with other people of her age.

The Nick show really is the first series where the Turtles are written as actual teenagers.

Prowler
03-26-2017, 11:32 PM
I wouldn't say most 16 year olds have many friends. I mean sure you talk to people in school, but close friends you invite to your home or go out with, etc? Probably only a small handful.
Huh back when I was 16 I'd say most people I knew had friends and hung out at each other's. I mean, sure, when you're a kid/teenager you can be friends one day and then 2 months later no longer like them anymore due to some stupid fight or argument, but it's a lot easier to get a social group when you're younger due to something as simple as "he likes the same cartoons as I do". It's much easier to quickly get acquainted people of your age bracket when you're 18 than it is when you're 40.

Funny thing is I never noticed April's breasts in the OT, but that may obviously have to do with the fact that I was like 3-8 years old for the majority of the cartoons run, and April was the last thing I was thinking about while watching it.
The FW series doesn't even sexualize April that much. You gotta really be paying attention to notice suggestive shots. Then again, I watch anime, so any possible fanservice that the FW series has has nothing on your average anime.

You mean like a butch? Implying April is the femme? I am pretty sure many lesbians don't require the dichotomy. I've seen couple that appear to be both "lipstick" or both "tomboy" or whatever.

At any rate, she does have nice breasts and all, but somehow in many versions she has no friends or apparent love interests.
Well looks aren't everything. And she doesn't sem to be the type of person who puts herself out there. In the FW series Irma and the Turtles are her only friends, pretty much. No way Vernon or Burne could be godo love interests for her. Not to mention she seems too career driven to care about marriage and dating.

I mean before him. And he is not that amazing a catch. They pretty much bond because both of their lives have been upended by the Turtles.
Love and attraction work in odd ways. So many times I've seen couples that made me wonder why one of the parties was attracted to the other.

I haven't read much of Mirage, but on the 2k3 series I think that couple worked out well. It would not have worked out well in the FW series, though.

Rooish
03-26-2017, 11:51 PM
Well looks aren't everything. And she doesn't sem to be the type of person who puts herself out there. In the FW series Irma and the Turtles are her only friends, pretty much. No way Vernon or Burne could be godo love interests for her. Not to mention she seems too career driven to care about marriage and dating.

Love and attraction work in odd ways. So many times I've seen couples that made me wonder why one of the parties was attracted to the other.

I haven't read much of Mirage, but on the 2k3 series I think that couple worked out well. It would not have worked out well in the FW series, though.

lol I agree, I was just trying to steer the conversation back on track before it dissolved into the nihilism of most threads when things dissolve into boob conversations or whatever.

They worked out fine in Mirage. The fact that they did is kind of a miracle and mostly testament to Casey's wild turn-around in personality. I guess that's what going sober does for you.

IndigoErth
03-27-2017, 12:31 AM
Anyone find it funny April consistently gets younger in every incarnation? In Mirage she starts off as a woman (probably late 20's and then goes into her early 30's), then she gets gradually younger with each version.

Original cartoon she was 28

4kids she was 23

IDW she's a College student, so around 19-20 at the beginning I imagine

Nick she's literally a 16 year old teen


April literally went from a mature woman to more young girl or teen for each newer generation.
Great, it's like she regressed alongside the franchise as a "kid's thing"...

Sooner or later the characters will all be kindergartners. Maybe in 2018. (Not serious of course, but eesh... really hope it's never like that.)

***First of Two Latin Kings***
03-27-2017, 07:03 AM
No one cares about your boner.

What did I ever do to you?

In the 1987 series she had it pretty bad for Bugman, and at least one other guy.

I don't think anyone even bothered to mention the movie portrayals of April and Casey...

Shark_Blade
03-27-2017, 07:55 AM
Ur dull ass is a loser.

Rooish
03-27-2017, 09:37 AM
I don't think anyone even bothered to mention the movie portrayals of April and Casey...

Well at least she had human friends in the movie, such as her boss and her boss's son.

Movie Casey was... well let's put it this way. I have never seen such a rough start to a massage.

Xav
03-27-2017, 12:08 PM
Anyone find it funny April consistently gets younger in every incarnation? In Mirage she starts off as a woman (probably late 20's and then goes into her early 30's), then she gets gradually younger with each version.

Original cartoon she was 28

4kids she was 23

IDW she's a College student, so around 19-20 at the beginning I imagine

Nick she's literally a 16 year old teen


April literally went from a mature woman to more young girl or teen for each newer generation.Well in the 2014 film she did go back to being 28.

DisKosh
03-27-2017, 02:13 PM
Well the Turtles never really acted like teens in either the original cartoon or 4kids, so it didn't feel much different. It felt like April was just interacting with other people of her age.

The Nick show really is the first series where the Turtles are written as actual teenagers.

Yeah, I think that's one thing I really like about the Nick series. Also, it's pretty good teenage writing because they don't come off as every teenage stereotype, they can be mature and adult at times, they can also be pretty childish sometimes. I like the variation.

Well at least she had human friends in the movie, such as her boss and her boss's son.

Movie Casey was... well let's put it this way. I have never seen such a rough start to a massage.

True but he's also really charming in that movie. I love his smile.

AquaParade
03-27-2017, 02:49 PM
I haven't gone back and read the last few pages, I may do that later. I always found this discussion to be interesting though.

I definitely appreciate the "loner" aspect of April's life. I thought it gave her a reason to be hanging out with four mutant turtles.

It's not that I think April needs the turtles and Splinter to give her life purpose, but I do appreciate that she finds family and maybe a little meaning through them.

ssjup81
03-27-2017, 05:23 PM
What did I ever do to you?

In the 1987 series she had it pretty bad for Bugman, and at least one other guy.

I don't think anyone even bothered to mention the movie portrayals of April and Casey...I swear in one of the Red Sky eps, April mentioned a former boyfriend owed her a favor. She was gathering information for something.

Rooish
03-27-2017, 08:54 PM
I swear in one of the Red Sky eps, April mentioned a former boyfriend owed her a favor. She was gathering information for something.

Hilarious! I think that April of the fred wolf series was a totally different person than, say, Mirage April.

Prowler
03-27-2017, 11:20 PM
I swear in one of the Red Sky eps, April mentioned a former boyfriend owed her a favor. She was gathering information for something.
She did, indeed. It was in the Megavolt episode or wtv that guy's name was.

CyberCubed
03-28-2017, 11:00 AM
One thing you would think people would like about April is she never went out of her way to find a man. They never wrote an April who is trying to date or get a love interest out of desperation, similar to how Irma was in the original series.

You'd think April being a self-sufficient woman who needs no man would be a positive feminist role model.

Rooish
03-28-2017, 11:34 AM
Cubed, I really wasn't thinking of Fred Wolf April when I started this topic; she's a major exception. She is so different from the other versions of April, who I thought could be seen as misfits in society aka "losers". Fred Wolf April is definitely one of those self-sufficient career focused types.

Personally I don't think being feminist means you have to put all relationships on the back burner in favor of a career, but that is one way of doing things.

CyberCubed
03-28-2017, 12:26 PM
What I mean is none of the other April's look out to get boyfriends either. I mean she's eventually paired with Casey in most series, but she doesn't go out of her way to make it happen...it just does.

In the Archie series she falls for the Warrior Dragon chinese guy, but even then it was kind of natural.

plastroncafe
03-28-2017, 12:30 PM
Being a plot device, which is what April is more often than not, means the writers don't give her much in the way of an exterior-to-the-plot life.

It's just easier logistically.

CyberCubed
03-28-2017, 12:35 PM
Which is also why April's sister Robyn, is so easily omitted in all the other series. Outside of Mirage she only appeared in like one episode of the 4kids cartoon in Season 4 and then never again.

Both IDW and Nick also have April as an only child and didn't introduce her sister.

Rooish
03-28-2017, 01:01 PM
Which is also why April's sister Robyn, is so easily omitted in all the other series. Outside of Mirage she only appeared in like one episode of the 4kids cartoon in Season 4 and then never again.

Both IDW and Nick also have April as an only child and didn't introduce her sister.

What was really hilarious about the 4kids thing is that Robyn was not even in her family photo, but April's crazy uncle was.

Prowler
03-28-2017, 01:42 PM
One thing you would think people would like about April is she never went out of her way to find a man. They never wrote an April who is trying to date or get a love interest out of desperation, similar to how Irma was in the original series.

You'd think April being a self-sufficient woman who needs no man would be a positive feminist role model.
This is why I prefer April as a 20+ year old woman. I've always liked how the TMNT franchise lacked romance in comparison to other franchises. And her being human and older than the Turtles in most versions made it like she'd never be a potential love interest for them, fortunately.

I don't like the idea of making her a teenager and having Donatello crush on her.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-28-2017, 03:15 PM
I finally had time to go through and read this thread in depth (I had a hell of a weekend and Monday to recover from), and I really like the points Rooish made.

April IS an outcast and really has nothing in common with any of the Turtles (except Don) or Casey. Casey is just the only other human she can share her mutant-centric life with.

Cryomancer
03-28-2017, 04:17 PM
I haven't caught up with the current show, have they "resolved" Donatello having a crush on April yet? Seems like a good opportunity to teach kids about how you might fall for the first girl you see romantically even if it's not a great idea. They could have him realize that's what's going on with him and they could have a quick discussion about it and move on properly as friends from there. I mean, he's a teenager. It happens.

Dust
03-28-2017, 05:06 PM
Yeah, she's ginger :lol:

Rooish
03-28-2017, 05:11 PM
I finally had time to go through and read this thread in depth (I had a hell of a weekend and Monday to recover from), and I really like the points Rooish made.

April IS an outcast and really has nothing in common with any of the Turtles (except Don) or Casey. Casey is just the only other human she can share her mutant-centric life with.

Thank you :) I think what I wanted with this whole thread is to say that I wish we could get a bit more in April's head, especially in the versions where she is a plot device. In Mirage, her loneliness and isolation is touched on a bit (City at War) but not much.

I recognize that Casey also seems to have nothing going on outside of the Turtles. But April is usually portrayed as the "normal" one. It can't feel very normal to be her, though.

I haven't caught up with the current show, have they "resolved" Donatello having a crush on April yet? Seems like a good opportunity to teach kids about how you might fall for the first girl you see romantically even if it's not a great idea. They could have him realize that's what's going on with him and they could have a quick discussion about it and move on properly as friends from there. I mean, he's a teenager. It happens.

I haven't watched much in a while although I think the crush tapered off. I guess Raph said something along these lines, but I hope at some point Don realized that if someone doesn't romantically like you early on, they aren't likely to start--especially if they know you like them a lot. It's impossible to catch up with all that pressure. It wouldn't be a bad lesson for the target audience to learn.

Coola Yagami
03-28-2017, 07:59 PM
Thank you :) I think what I wanted with this whole thread is to say that I wish we could get a bit more in April's head, especially in the versions where she is a plot device. In Mirage, her loneliness and isolation is touched on a bit (City at War) but not much.

I recognize that Casey also seems to have nothing going on outside of the Turtles. But April is usually portrayed as the "normal" one. It can't feel very normal to be her, though.



I haven't watched much in a while although I think the crush tapered off. I guess Raph said something along these lines, but I hope at some point Don realized that if someone doesn't romantically like you early on, they aren't likely to start--especially if they know you like them a lot. It's impossible to catch up with all that pressure. It wouldn't be a bad lesson for the target audience to learn.

Didn't April like him back though eventually? She even stopped him from trying to break up with her. Well, not so much break up since they weren't a couple, but give up on trying to pursue her. She put a stop to it and wasted no time in reeling him back in.

DisKosh
03-28-2017, 08:11 PM
Didn't April like him back though eventually? She even stopped him from trying to break up with her. Well, not so much break up since they weren't a couple, but give up on trying to pursue her. She put a stop to it and wasted no time in reeling him back in.

Yeah, she kissed him after saying he was 'my mutant'.

Galactus
03-28-2017, 10:33 PM
April being a loser with nothing going on in her life outside of hanging around the turtles, Splinter and Casey is pretty much her main arc in the Mirage comics. As others have mentioned her association with them costs her a career, her home and family business, further than that Shades of Grey highlights that she feels there's little chance of ever rebuilding her life while still associated with the turtles.

City at War brings her arc full circle by showing her getting a career and social circle away from the turtles and finding it unfulfilling and embracing her life with the crazy surrogate family. If you measure whether someone is winning in life based on how content they are then I'd say the Mirage April not a loser - Vol. 4 may screw with that a little but it's best not to pass judgement until Laird (ever) finishes it.

The 4kids April doesn't strike me as a loser either. She may have a lot of the initial setbacks of the Mirage April but she gets to flex her tech knowledge with Donatello (something largely forgotten with the Mirage April after her first appearance), she rebuilds the Second Time Around store and it seems like a viable business not to mention being trained by Splinter in martial she seems more than happy to be directly involved in the turtles adventures which probably makes her life more exciting than the Mirage April who can often seem like a den mother by comparison. She also doesn't seem quite as estranged from her family, she reconnects with her uncle in the series and seems on friendly terms with Robyn. Sure, she doesn't seem to have a big circle of friends outside the mutants and aliens and so forth but frankly since this version seems to embrace adventure she seems fine with it.

Perhaps the most arguable is the Fred Wolf April. Sure, she has a career as a reporter which at times seems successful one but often is she is portrayed as not being respected by her her boss who often seems all too willing to promote her smug male colleague (Vernon) ahead of her or bust her back to doing puff pieces or fire her outright. When her personal happiness seems so tied to her career constantly having her job in jeopardy can't be very fulfilling. Maybe getting out and becoming an independant field reporter during the final two seasons was the best thing she could do.

DestronMirage22
03-28-2017, 10:35 PM
I haven't caught up with the current show, have they "resolved" Donatello having a crush on April yet? Seems like a good opportunity to teach kids about how you might fall for the first girl you see romantically even if it's not a great idea. They could have him realize that's what's going on with him and they could have a quick discussion about it and move on properly as friends from there. I mean, he's a teenager. It happens.

Nope. From what I gather it's actually gotten worse.

CyberCubed
03-28-2017, 10:40 PM
Nope. From what I gather it's actually gotten worse.

Not really, it's played for laughs.

DestronMirage22
03-28-2017, 10:43 PM
Not really, it's played for laughs.

Does anyone actually find it funny though? I thought it was just annoying ship bait, and that was the last thing the show needed.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-29-2017, 09:35 AM
Thank you :) I think what I wanted with this whole thread is to say that I wish we could get a bit more in April's head, especially in the versions where she is a plot device. In Mirage, her loneliness and isolation is touched on a bit (City at War) but not much.

I recognize that Casey also seems to have nothing going on outside of the Turtles. But April is usually portrayed as the "normal" one. It can't feel very normal to be her, though.

I think I'm one of the few people who ENJOY April's role in City at War. I don't find it boring, I find it compelling.

She's felt trapped by this mutant family for so long, but by the time she tries to rejoin society, she no longer feels like she belongs or can fit in. It's too pedestrian... so she goes back.

Honestly, when you think about it, it can present quite a depressing message.

Lisardo
03-29-2017, 12:43 PM
Well the Turtles never really acted like teens in either the original cartoon or 4kids, so it didn't feel much different. It felt like April was just interacting with other people of her age.

The Nick show really is the first series where the Turtles are written as actual teenagers.

I agree with this. In the earlier toons the TMNT looked/acted late teens to early 20s. April in both toons looked/acted 23 - 25. So that puts them around the same age, maybe a few years apart at most. The Nick show, since the turtles actually look/act as teens as they're supposed to, I can see why they'd make April a teen too.

oldmanwinters
03-29-2017, 01:19 PM
I agree with this. In the earlier toons the TMNT looked/acted late teens to early 20s. April in both toons looked/acted 23 - 25. So that puts them around the same age, maybe a few years apart at most. The Nick show, since the turtles actually look/act as teens as they're supposed to, I can see why they'd make April a teen too.

Pretty much. I tend to think of the Fred Wolf turtles as "Young Adult Mutant Ninja/Hero Turtles," and the 4Kids turtles as "Collegiate Mutant Ninja/Samurai Turtles."

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 01:23 PM
It was the same in Mirage, Archie and the original movie trilogy too. It never felt like April was interacting with teenagers because she and the Turtles acted the same age in all previous series.

In fact it feels that way in the IDW comics too.

plastroncafe
03-29-2017, 01:40 PM
I think I'm one of the few people who ENJOY April's role in City at War. I don't find it boring, I find it compelling.

She's felt trapped by this mutant family for so long, but by the time she tries to rejoin society, she no longer feels like she belongs or can fit in. It's too pedestrian... so she goes back.

Honestly, when you think about it, it can present quite a depressing message.

Some day there'll be a creative team that taps into this.
Someday.

...

I hope.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-29-2017, 01:48 PM
Some day there'll be a creative team that taps into this.
Someday.

...

I hope.

Nah. Mirage was the last best chance, and they're not a player anymore.

The problem is nobody ever thinks about using April as an ongoing character; she's hugely important in the first few story arcs, whether it's Mirage or Fred Wolf or Nick or IDW, and then she fades to occasional plot device or background filler.

Which is terrible, because she has had tons of potential over the years, whether as a reporter, or as the depressing Mirage stuff we've discussed.

She's basically Lieutenant Uhura for TMNT; she opens them hailing frequencies, but that's about it. #justiceforuhura #justiceforapril

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 01:57 PM
She doesn't need to be forced into every story, or else they have to do things like make April a competent fighter with a katana like Archie or a psychic like Nick.

plastroncafe
03-29-2017, 02:01 PM
Nah. Mirage was the last best chance, and they're not a player anymore.

The problem is nobody ever thinks about using April as an ongoing character; she's hugely important in the first few story arcs, whether it's Mirage or Fred Wolf or Nick or IDW, and then she fades to occasional plot device or background filler.

Which is terrible, because she has had tons of potential over the years, whether as a reporter, or as the depressing Mirage stuff we've discussed.

She's basically Lieutenant Uhura for TMNT; she opens them hailing frequencies, but that's about it. #justiceforuhura #justiceforapril

I dunno, the first LA movie gave April some love.
Though...that was more likely due to a perfect storm of affection for the source material, as well as amazing actor input from Hoag.

And as much as I dislike the PD movies, I think Fox did a great job with what she was given. (which wasn't much.)

I've hope that some day April'll find herself in a world crafted by people who know what to do with a female character that goes beyond the "madonna/whore" dichotomy.

DisKosh
03-29-2017, 02:11 PM
I think I'm one of the few people who ENJOY April's role in City at War. I don't find it boring, I find it compelling.

She's felt trapped by this mutant family for so long, but by the time she tries to rejoin society, she no longer feels like she belongs or can fit in. It's too pedestrian... so she goes back.

Honestly, when you think about it, it can present quite a depressing message.

THANK YOU! I don't feel that concept is discussed in stories like this for instance the 1987 series Beauty and the Beast has a very similar plot but we never really see Catherine struggling to fit into society after meeting Vincent (the Beast). She still has time for her career, family and friends.

I know it's fiction, but it still needs to be grounded in some way and emotions are a fantastic way of doing it. I think after being involved in something amazing you would become isolated from everyday life, even Doctor Who addresses that briefly with Rose.

On a side note, I wonder what will happen when she inevitably goes to university and leaves Donatello, a scientific child prodigy behind. Can you imagine how emotional that arc would be for him? It would be a constant reminder that he may be exceptionally skilled, but he'll probably never be able to reach his full potential simply because he's a mutant.

She doesn't need to be forced into every story, or else they have to do things like make April a competent fighter with a katana like Archie or a psychic like Nick.

I think it's people trying to make her interesting, but I on't think she needs powers or to be able to fight to be interesting. My favourite version of the character is in the Mirage comics, she's smart, practical, kind, easy to relate to (for me at least).

Rooish
03-29-2017, 02:16 PM
I honestly thought Fox did a pretty good job too. I loved her biking around doing investigative journalism on her phone. It was kind of endearing.

Do tell about Hoag, I don't know much about her story. I heard she wasn't hired back for the second movie because she wasn't hot enough for preteen boys--is that true?

I guess I don't care whether April is a career-focused person with a life outside of the Turtles or whether she's a lonely soul who realizes the Turtles are better than the "pedestrian" life of humans in the city, as long as the series takes the time to focus on her and what it's like being in those shoes. I did appreciate City at War (Mirage) for that. It is a pretty big deal to give up on the world of humans and commit to a bunch of mutant animals living in hiding.

It is too bad that we'll never get creative teams that really take it in this direction again. The depressingness of Mirage is pretty compelling and I miss it.

Agreed, Cubed, that it's a bit of an eye-roller when she is a skilled ninja or has psychic powers. I don't really mind her in the Nick cartoon, but I would mind if the Mirage character had developed into someone like that just to keep her relevant to the story.

Powder
03-29-2017, 02:20 PM
Do tell about Hoag, I don't know much about her story. I heard she wasn't hired back for the second movie because she wasn't hot enough for preteen boys--is that true?

She got the part while working on Cadillac Man with Robin Williams, who was actually a big fan of the Mirage comics. He brought his collection to work one day & they read/talked about them in her trailer. He gave her some tips on how to really hone in on the character, so the story goes.

As for her involvement in the sequel, I've not heard that. She herself said that the first film was so special she wouldn't do anything that wasn't on par with it. Felt SOTO was too goofy, spiritually lacking, etc. To my understanding it was her decision not to be involved.

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 02:33 PM
As for her involvement in the sequel, I've not heard that. She herself said that the first film was so special she wouldn't do anything that wasn't on par with it. Felt SOTO was too goofy, spiritually lacking, etc. To my understanding it was her decision not to be involved.

If I remember correctly she wanted a raise and better conditions on the set because the actors who wore the Turtle costumes were sweating and dehydrated between takes. Aside from that it's probably just behind the scenes Hollywood politics. Same reason they decided not to use Casey in TMNT II for whatever reason.

pferreira
03-30-2017, 09:36 AM
Well, I think it was a realistic portrayal of journalists, actually. They do tend to be stubborn and always looking for stories, since it's their job.That's how I took it, perhaps that's what makes her different to the other April's.

and then you have your Lumberjack Lesbians.You've been watching Monty Python haven't you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshU58nI0Ts :lol:

Sooner or later the characters will all be kindergartners. Maybe in 2018. (Not serious of course, but eesh... really hope it's never like that.)Nickelodeon...Rugrats...Nooooo! Don't give them ideas! :o

She's felt trapped by this mutant family for so long, but by the time she tries to rejoin society, she no longer feels like she belongs or can fit in. It's too pedestrian... so she goes back.

Honestly, when you think about it, it can present quite a depressing message.I don't look at it that way. Yeah she's an outcast as are the Turtles but that's what brings them together. TMNT has always stood up for outcasts and said you don't need to be alone because there's a place for you in society somewhere. So what if she doesn't hang out with other human beings? Her life is more fulfilled helping the Turtles. Of course April as she grows older needs a more financially stable life but in her 20s or as a teenager being around mutant turtles she at least found her place in the world. And no I don't mean a sewer... :lol:

DisKosh
03-30-2017, 02:52 PM
Nickelodeon...Rugrats...Nooooo! Don't give them ideas! :o

I wouldn't be against a show about baby turtles if it focused on Splinter trying to raise them. There have actually been a few great fanfics about that but I don't think it would be interesting to kids.

I don't look at it that way. Yeah she's an outcast as are the Turtles but that's what brings them together. TMNT has always stood up for outcasts and said you don't need to be alone because there's a place for you in society somewhere. So what if she doesn't hang out with other human beings? Her life is more fulfilled helping the Turtles. Of course April as she grows older needs a more financially stable life but in her 20s or as a teenager being around mutant turtles she at least found her place in the world. And no I don't mean a sewer... :lol:

Even later on when she's an adult she's married to Casey and they have an adopted daughter, but they still see the turtles and Splinter regularly. Shadow, their daugher, even called the turtles her uncles and Splinter her grandpa, it's really endearing.

Whenever anyone brings up this kind of discussion I always want to refer to the 80's Beauty and the Beast series because it basically has the same plot (woman is rescued by a mutant who lives under NYC in the 80's) only April is way better than Catherine (I'm still a bit annoyed with her after last episode, unvaccinated swine).

Rooish
03-30-2017, 10:31 PM
If I remember correctly she wanted a raise and better conditions on the set because the actors who wore the Turtle costumes were sweating and dehydrated between takes. Aside from that it's probably just behind the scenes Hollywood politics. Same reason they decided not to use Casey in TMNT II for whatever reason.

Wow, this is cool to hear about. Hoag sounds super cool. How did Casey's actor end up in the third film again then I wonder?

pferreira
04-06-2017, 10:06 AM
Whenever anyone brings up this kind of discussion I always want to refer to the 80's Beauty and the Beast series because it basically has the same plot (woman is rescued by a mutant who lives under NYC in the 80's) only April is way better than Catherine (I'm still a bit annoyed with her after last episode, unvaccinated swine).Good comparison.

Wow, this is cool to hear about. Hoag sounds super cool. How did Casey's actor end up in the third film again then I wonder?I don't think it was so much Elias Koteas wasn't allowed to be in the second film, it was more a problem of logistics. His Casey knows Hoag so pairing him after just a year with Paige Turco was a bit too soon. Plus it's possible Koteas was busy with another movie. Getting him back with the third movie was probably down to actor availability and story reasons.