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CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 01:34 PM
So I've been re-reading Archie over the last few days (up to issue #51 already), and I really like many of the stronger Archie plotlines. After you move on from some of the early issues, the series really takes off in terms of plotlines. Some of my favorites:

- Initial Malinga invasion of Earth. Not as good as later arcs, but it's a nice preview of things to come, along with Raph/Mondo Gecko sneaking aboard the ship. This is also the first time the Mutanimals team up with the Turtles.

- The Krang on Shredder's head story where he takes over his body, which also introduced Slash and Bellybomb, and brought back Bebop/Rocksteady.

- The Four Horseman storyarc, which had the Mutanimals team up with the Turtles against Null and the Four Horseman of the Apocaypse.

- The Future Shark arc, which of course made Armaggon a major villain, introduced the Future Turtles and their timeline, and had Shredder, Verminator-X and The Rat King all team up against them in an epic showdown.

- The Warrior Dragon (based on Hot Head) Chinatown story, which was a more mystical story where Chien Khan tries to resurrect a demon, and then this continued into the April O'Neil mini where they have a gang war arc. This arc also introduces Ninjara.

- The Black Hole trilogy, another epic space arc that brings Sarnath and the Turnstone and the gray Aliens back into play. Basically the Archie version of, "Turtles in Space."

- Megadeath/Malinga's last stand, etc. Malinga dies and burns into the sun, the Mutanimals are all dead, Slash sacrifices himself, Null transforms into a demon. This was all pretty shocking for what was a kids comics at the time.

- Turtles exposed and captured by the U.S. government. Similar to the Volume 2 storyline with Darpa, and this would later inspire Bishop's creation in the 4kids series.

- Cyber Turtles arc. 5 issue arc in the future with the Cyber Turtles, Verminator X is defeated and reformed

- Year of the Turtle, which was the last issues Archie put out. Basically turned out to be the final battle against Shredder.


They also had a lot of nice one-shot stories about Scumbug/Wyrm, the Middle Eastern arc, the Chameleon arc, the Turtle tots issues, and the ones Ninjara reunited with her fox people.

neatoman
03-29-2017, 01:49 PM
The one where Bebop and Rocksteady decided to get naked and disappear forever.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-29-2017, 01:49 PM
I've never liked Archie TMNT. Ever.

But I do like the story where Mike is captured by the U.S. government and tortured, and then after being rescued, Mike saves his captor from drowning or whatever it was.

That was good.

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 01:53 PM
I've never liked Archie TMNT. Ever..

The stories I listed are all as good as the stories in any other TMNT comic series. There's no difference.

ChosenOne
03-29-2017, 02:03 PM
Archie TMNT is my childhood and my gateway drug to all things TMNT!

Hands down, the best arcs (at least for me) are the battle for the Turnstone in Dimension X, the return of Krang with Slash and Bellybomb in tow and the infamous "Krang's head on Shredder's body" thing, and the arc that introduced Ninjara. The art on that last one was top notch for the run.

Honorable mentions to Leatherhead's introduction and the first Scumbug vs Wyrm.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
03-29-2017, 02:07 PM
The stories I listed are all as good as the stories in any other TMNT comic series. There's no difference.

You're cute when you're autistic. :trazz:

Jephael
03-29-2017, 02:16 PM
OMG, I can't believe Cubed is actually defending the Archie TMNT comics. This feels like some weird out-of-body experience here.

neatoman
03-29-2017, 02:17 PM
The stories I listed are all as good as the stories in any other TMNT comic series. There's no difference.

I, uh... Look, I know you like just about anything TMNT as long as it's not without some redeeming qualities but do you really feel the Archie holds up that well? Does the storyline where Krang uses Shredder's head as a buttplug really stack up to City at War?

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 02:19 PM
Yeah, I don't get what Cylon is implying. The actual arcs and stories in Archie are very similar to IDW's writing style (especially with all the mutants), just with various changes here and there. Swap some of the mutant characters around, swap Alopex for Ninjara, etc. and it's similar writing style and develop.

In fact nearly all the Archie plotlines would fit right at home in the IDW universe, again just with some minor changes here and there for some character discrepencies.

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 02:22 PM
I, uh... Look, I know you like just about anything TMNT as long as it's not without some redeeming qualities but do you really feel the Archie holds up that well? Does the storyline where Krang uses Shredder's head as a buttplug really stack up to City at War?

That one was just fanservice fun, but the idea of Krang being able to control bodies was nice.

I'm talking about the ones involving Armaggon, the Future Turtles, the space arcs, the Chinatown gang war stories, the Malinga invasion issues, the Null arcs, and the various fun one-shot stories they did.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 02:25 PM
You know one thing I always loved about the Archie series was how it didn't veer from delving into some serious social commentary, and not just about global warming or saving the Earth. There was a story in one of the specials about a young boy with special mental powers who went crazy because his mom would lose her temper and verbally abuse him, causing all sorts of weird monsters to appear. Now that I think about it, that could count as one of my all time favorite stories.

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 02:27 PM
You know one thing I always loved about the Archie series was how it didn't veer from delving into some serious social commentary, and not just about global warming or saving the Earth. There was a story in one of the specials about a young boy with special mental powers who went crazy because his mom would lose her temper and verbally abuse him, causing all sorts of weird monsters to appear.

There's also the one where Splinter's sensei went blind from seeing the Atom Bomb in 1945. Then I liked how the Middle Eastern arc taught kids about religions and lifestyles, the whole arc about reincarnation with the Charlie Llama.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 02:29 PM
I liked how the Middle Eastern arc taught kids about religions and lifestyles, the whole arc about reincarnation with the Charlie Llama.

Yea, me too. Of course the stinkin Jesus freak parents of America had to go and put a damper on that whole thing.
"How dare you put this kind of stuff in a children's comic; read your bible!!!", which is funny because there was even a page in Mighty Mutanimals that depicted the iconic Garden of Eden story.

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 02:30 PM
It's funny how violent and adult the Archie comic gets as it progresses too. The first 25 or so issues are fairly kid-oriented and friendly, then after that it really picks up with better storylines, actual death and violence, and more serious situations.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 02:32 PM
It's funny how violent and adult the Archie comic gets as it progresses too. The first 25 or so issues are fairly kid-oriented and friendly, then after that it really picks up with better storylines, actual death and violence, and more serious situations.

And of course, this infamous moment, which I en-captured in a very amusing meme:

http://www.jephael.com/Joker'sReaction.jpg

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 02:35 PM
Yeah, never understood the reputation Archie gets as the "kiddie" TMNT book, makes me think people didn't read pass the first 25 issues or so.

Around the 30-40 issue mark and onward it's just like any TMNT comic series for teens/adults.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 02:38 PM
Yeah, never understood the reputation Archie gets as the "kiddie" TMNT book, makes me think people didn't read pass the first 25 issues or so.

Around the 30-40 issue mark and onward it's just like any TMNT comic series for teens/adults.

You gotta keep in mind, it started out as a comic book adaptation of the original cartoon, which was always geared at youngsters.

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 02:41 PM
Which is how it started, but after issue 25 it gets more and more serious and action oriented. It's kind of funny, issue 25 also wraps up Shredder/Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady, so that seemed like the "turning point" of moving away from the Fred Wolf show.

Shredder himself also stops being goofy and becomes more of a competent villain in his later appearances too.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 02:44 PM
Which is how it started, but after issue 25 it gets more and more serious and action oriented. It's kind of funny, issue 25 also wraps up Shredder/Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady, so that seemed like the "turning point" of moving away from the Fred Wolf show.

Shredder himself also stops being goofy and becomes more of a competent villain in his later appearances too.

Yea, though I'm still a little confused on his involvement with Armaggon in the future. At one point they establish that he jumped through a time slip right after the events of issue 4 (the comic book adaptation of "Incredible Shrinking Turtles") It's possible at some point between that scene and issue 5 he returned to present day, otherwise how would he have recollected the time Krang took control over his body? That being the case though, he would've been aware of future events the entire time and have been able to manipulate the past ala Biff Tannen!!!

neatoman
03-29-2017, 02:46 PM
Yeah, I don't get what Cylon is implying. The actual arcs and stories in Archie are very similar to IDW's writing style (especially with all the mutants), just with various changes here and there. Swap some of the mutant characters around, swap Alopex for Ninjara, etc. and it's similar writing style and develop.

In fact nearly all the Archie plotlines would fit right at home in the IDW universe, again just with some minor changes here and there for some character discrepencies.

The difference is that the IDW has more build-up and doesn't take sharp, unexpeted turns nearly as often.

And of course, this infamous moment, which I en-captured in a very amusing meme:

http://www.jephael.com/Joker'sReaction.jpg

Not hard to answer, Donatello is a character more people care about.

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 02:47 PM
At the end of the Future Shark arc, the last we see of Shredder is just washed away from the flood and he never appears again after that besides Year of the Turtle. And since Verminator-X is solo in the Cyber Turtles arc, we can assume Shredder is no longer in the future.

So my guess is after Shredder fails in the future, he finds some way to timeslip back into the past, and then the Shredder from issue #5 is the same one. Granted it doesn't make sense with how Shredder can remember the Turtles saving him from Krang, but oh well...time paradox!

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 02:48 PM
The difference is that the IDW has more build-up and doesn't take sharp, unexpeted turns nearly as often.
.

Nearly all of Archie's plotlines and story arcs continue from each other, and then it constantly calls back to old characters and arcs from older issues who re-appear. It also sets things up that happen in future issues down the line. Nothing is forgotten or ignored.

By the time the Archie series ends, nearly all the major storylines and plotlines are wrapped up. All the villains are defeated, besides Null who just flies off but he implies he can't be killed anyway.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 02:50 PM
At the end of the Future Shark arc, the last we see of Shredder is just washed away from the flood and he never appears again after that besides Year of the Turtle. And since Verminator-X is solo in the Cyber Turtles arc, we can assume Shredder is no longer in the future.

So my guess is after Shredder fails in the future, he finds some way to timeslip back into the past, and then the Shredder from issue #5 is the same one. Granted it doesn't make sense with how Shredder can remember the Turtles saving him from Krang, but oh well...time paradox!

Plus as I mentioned before, his knowledge of the future would've given him a major advantage throughout those early stories, especially "The Final Conflict" when they were all scrambling to get the Turnstone. He could've easily killed Jess Harley and taken the Turnstone before Mary Bones had the chance to encounter Jess and turn him into Leatherhead.

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 02:51 PM
Plus as I mentioned before, his knowledge of the future would've given him a major advantage throughout those early stories, especially "The Final Conflict" when they were all scrambling to get the Turnstone. He could've easily gone back in time and killed Jess Harley and taken the Turnstone before Mary Bones had the chance to transform Harley into Leatherhead.

Yeah, just talk it up to the typical time travel paradox stuff. It doesn't really make sense, unless a split timeline is formed or something.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 02:53 PM
It doesn't really make sense, unless a split timeline is formed or something.

How much you wanna bet that's exactly what Forever War would've been all about?

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 02:57 PM
How much you wanna bet that's exactly what Forever War would've been all about?

Possibly, especially since Shredder was shown holding Future Donatello's body in his hands.

Speaking of other things, anyone think Archie had some of the best incarnations of certain characters:

- Best Wingnut/Screwloose. Which isn't hard to say because the OT/Nick versions only appeared in 1 episode

- Best Armaggon so far, and the definitive version of him

- Best Warrior Dragon/Hot Head, his backstory and character is better than all the other incarnations.

- One of my favorite versions of Slash, although I still like the others too.

- Best version of Merdude. I liked OT Merdude but he was only in 1 episode

- Mondo Gecko was cool here, although the IDW version surpases him for me.


I also liked how they tried to give more depth to Shredder/Krang and even Bebop/Rocksteady. Rat King was also pretty interesting in Archie but got too little screentime.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 03:00 PM
Possibly, especially since Shredder was shown holding Future Donatello's body in his hands.

Speaking of other things, anyone think Archie had some of the best incarnations of certain characters:

- Best Wingnut/Screwloose. Which isn't hard to say because the OT/Nick versions only appeared in 1 episode

- Best Armaggon so far, and the definitive version of him

- Best Warrior Dragon/Hot Head, his backstory and character is better than all the other incarnations.

- One of my favorite versions of Slash, although I still like the others too.

- Best version of Merdude. I liked OT Merdude but he was only in 1 episode

- Mondo Gecko was cool here, although the IDW version surpases him for me.


I also liked how they tried to give more depth to Shredder/Krang and even Bebop/Rocksteady. Rat King was also pretty interesting in Archie but got too little screentime.

Why else do you think I wanted to do a futuristic Archie heavy revamp on Netflix. As Greg Cipes/2012 Mikey would say, "Archie is the shiz-net!!!"

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 03:04 PM
Yeah, if you can move pass the enviornment preachy stories, a lot of the arcs are pretty fun.

It also seemed like the Archie TMNT were always traveling. They went to Japan, the Middle East, Israel, South America, Brazil, Tibet, Egypt, in the specials they went to Scotland, Alaska, then space, etc. Seemed like Murphy was trying to teach kids all about different regions and people of the world.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 03:05 PM
Yeah, if you can move pass the enviornment preachy stories, a lot of the arcs are pretty fun.

It also seemed like the Archie TMNT were always traveling. They went to Japan, the Middle East, Israel, South America, Brazil, Tibet, Egypt, in the specials they went to Scotland, Alaska, then space, etc. Seemed like Murphy was trying to teach kids all about different regions and people of the world.

Yea, he was definitely a worldly fellow back in those days.

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 03:08 PM
It's also funny because Archie TMNT basically covers the same main plots of every other universe:

- TMNT vs. Shredder

- Krang trying to conquer Earth or Dimension X

- Turtles fighting or befriending various mutants

- Human ninja gang war stories

- Mystical/magic stories involving dragons and demons

- Turtles in Space and Dimension X stories

- Time travel stories with Future Turtles

- Dinosaurs and ancient creatures stories

- Monster stories with zombies (in the Cyber Turtles arc), and the specials

- Stories with killer robots like Sarnath or the giant Foot Soldier

- Rat King, Leatherhead, etc. all make their debut


Only thing Archie didn't cover is Casey Jones oddly enough, and Baxter never returns or gets mutated into a fly, he's just ignored after the episode adaptions end.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 03:13 PM
Only thing Archie didn't cover is Casey Jones oddly enough, and Baxter never returns or gets mutated into a fly, he's just ignored after the episode adaptions end.

Casey did get mentioned briefly during that weird 3-part story Year of the Turtle, though that definitely looked like it was it's own thing separate from the main story, similar to that hour long 2D special Nickelodeon came out with titled Blast to the Past. Here's a video review I did on that special back in 2011.

wwioRoeRJBM

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 03:14 PM
To be honest I wonder why Murphy didn't introduce Casey. He worked on several Mirage stories and he obviously knew who Casey was, so it's really weird when you think of it. Did anyone ever ask him?

Jephael
03-29-2017, 03:17 PM
To be honest I wonder why Murphy didn't introduce Casey. He worked on several Mirage stories and he obviously knew who Casey was, so it's really weird when you think of it. Did anyone ever ask him?

The thought never crossed my mind before, but I guess he figured since Casey wasn't a main character in the Fred Wolf cartoon, it wouldn't matter if he got nixed from the Archie comics.

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 03:19 PM
That's the only thing I could think of. A lot of Mirage elements that weren't in the original cartoon were also left out of Archie.

For example there's no mention of Utroms or Krang's race, the Triceratons never show up in Archie, there's no Renet, etc. So I guess Casey got axed too, even though he appeared early on in the original cartoon.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 03:26 PM
That's the only thing I could think of. A lot of Mirage elements that weren't in the original cartoon were also left out of Archie.

For example there's no mention of Utroms or Krang's race, the Triceratons never show up in Archie, there's no Renet, etc. So I guess Casey got axed too, even though he appeared early on in the original cartoon.

Rat King and Leatherhead are pretty much the only recurring characters to have started in Mirage and got adapted into those other two iterations.

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 03:29 PM
Rat King and Leatherhead are pretty much the only recurring characters to have started in Mirage and got adapted into those other two iterations.

Which also makes me wonder why Baxter wasn't brought back. We even see him again during the flashback in the Future Shark story arc when Armaggon takes Shredder to the future, and we see classic Baxter with his blonde hair just standing there. That was his last appearance....a flashback.

I guess in the Archie series Baxter was never anything more than a short-lived lackey scientist.

Lordmylar06
03-29-2017, 03:36 PM
If I had to pick one story as an overall favorite from Archie, it would be the Future Shark Trilogy.

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 04:57 PM
Anyone surprised Murphy was allowed to get away with publishing stories about the Middle East and Jerusalem in the early 90's? There's literally an issue where some God makes all the Israel and Muslim people fight each other on the streets.

Hot damn, talk about religious issues in comics that are still relevant today.

MikeandRaph87
03-29-2017, 05:18 PM
- The Future Shark arc, which of course made Armaggon a major villain, introduced the Future Turtles and their timeline, and had Shredder, Verminator-X and The Rat King all team up against them in an epic showdown.

#1.TMNTA#42-#44.This story for pretty much these reasons. Dark future,Shredder AND Rat King not to mention a cool new villain in Armaggon.

#2.'Raw Power' storyline in TMNTA#23-#25 is a great piece highlighting the Technodrome gang and introducing Slash. It does interesting character work with the villains.

- The Black Hole trilogy, another epic space arc that brings Sarnath and the Turnstone and the gray Aliens back into play. Basically the Archie version of, "Turtles in Space."


#3.48-#50 is a solid tale in space making an old concept new and I am glad the plot thread was finished that was left hanging at the beginning. Nice visuals and epic story.

CyberCubed
03-29-2017, 08:20 PM
Just finished reading the Terracide arc where the Mutanimals are all brutally shot to death, Null completes his transformation into the devil, and Malinga and her hive ship crash into the sun, complete with Slash sacrificing himself.

Anyone who thinks Archie doesn't have adult or well written stories is kidding themselves, some of these arcs are better than a lot of IDW's main arcs. Granted I love IDW too, but Murphy's writing is very clever.

Jephael
03-29-2017, 10:44 PM
Anyone who thinks Archie doesn't have adult or well written stories is kidding themselves, some of these arcs are better than a lot of IDW's main arcs. Granted I love IDW too, but Murphy's writing is very clever.

Hey I'm glad to see you look at it that way, though try not to boast about it so much. Everyone's entitled to their opinions. If somebody thinks it sucked, that's their loss and they're missing out.

DestronMirage22
03-29-2017, 11:57 PM
Even though it had all that environmental stuff, Archie was still pretty good. Lots of interesting characters and settings. No specific storyline comes to mind, but there were a lot I liked.

CyberCubed
03-30-2017, 01:39 AM
Anyone like Oyuki? She's the Asian girl who becomes April's camerawoman and roommate after they rescue her from being a sacrifice to Chien Khan in the Warrior Dragon arc. She had a pretty funny and sarcastic personality, and I liked how she was friendly with Michelangelo and how she tricked the news guy to putting on a video of the Turtles during the talkshow.

She's a character I would have liked to see revived by another series but I doubt she ever will be.

Jephael
03-30-2017, 01:47 AM
Anyone like Oyuki? She's the Asian girl who becomes April's camerawoman and roommate after they rescue her from being a sacrifice to Chien Khan in the Warrior Dragon arc. She had a pretty funny and sarcastic personality, and I liked how she was friendly with Michelangelo and how she tricked the news guy to putting on a video of the Turtles during the talkshow.

She's a character I would have liked to see revived by another series but I doubt she ever will be.

Oh yea, she was really cool. It'd be awesome to see her make a comeback down the road. If I ever rework my little revival project I'll have to squeeze her in some place.

CyberCubed
03-30-2017, 01:50 AM
I liked how April called her out for smoking too, and how she never got mad at her. They actually had a pretty good dynamic, I wish they explored her character a bit more.

It's also interesting how Cherubae never appears again after issue 13. Like many of the characters from the early issues got to return in later ones, like Chameleon, Scumbug/Wyrm, Rat King, Sarnath, Katmundo and Al'falqa....but Cherubae oddly never comes back. She could have been involved in that huge space arc since it was about the Turnstone and the Sons of Silence but she's not in it at all. I wonder why Murphy chose not to use her.

Jephael
03-30-2017, 01:54 AM
interesting how Cherubae never appears again after issue 13. Like many of the characters from the early issues got to return in later ones, like Chameleon, Scumbug/Wyrm, Rat King, Sarnath, Katmundo and Al'falqa....but Cherubae oddly never comes back. She could have been involved in that huge space arc since it was about the Turnstone and the Sons of Silence but she's not in it at all. I wonder why Murphy chose not to use her.

Actually I kinda got the feeling Cherubae might've been a big part of the Forever War storyarc. I also like to think the Turnstone itself could've been the key to resurrecting the Mutanimals.

CyberCubed
03-30-2017, 01:55 AM
Eh, I'd prefer dead characters to stay dead, reviving them would be too much like how DC/Marvel keeps bringing back characters. The way Andrew had their ghosts come back and get their revenge on Null and kill him in "Odyssey" was perfect. They got their vengeance and returned to the afterlife.

Jephael
03-30-2017, 01:59 AM
Eh, I'd prefer dead characters to stay dead, reviving them would be too much like how DC/Marvel keeps bringing back characters. The way Andrew had their ghosts come back and get their revenge on Null and kill him in "Odyssey" was perfect. They got their vengeance and returned to the afterlife.

I know ya don't read online fan fiction, but he originally did the same thing at the end of our "Deliverance" story, which was a sequel to "Transcension"; Man that was a lifetime ago!!

CyberCubed
03-30-2017, 02:04 AM
In a way it brings closure to the last Archie villain, since the last time you see Null in the issue is when he flies off Malinga's ship and tells Don, "Do you realize who I am?" and keeps saying how he can't be killed.

In fact the series did a good job wrapping up all it's villains:

- Malinga and Scul/Bean crashed into the sun and died

- Chein Khan is kicked by April into the portal of the demon world with No'Tar'Daar and is likely killed there.

- Armaggon was trapped in dimension limbo at the end of the Merdude mini-series.

- Verminator X is shot by Raph at the end of the Cyber Turtles arc, then at the end we see Don "reprogrammed" him to make him good again and work with them.

- Rat King is washed away at the end of the Future Shark arc.

- Null escapes as he's implied to be unkillable, but now dies in "Odyssey"

- Shredder goes insane and loses his mind at the end of "Year of the Turtle."


It could have been a series with a lot of loose ends, but nearly everything was tied up.

Jephael
03-30-2017, 05:20 AM
In a way it brings closure to the last Archie villain, since the last time you see Null in the issue is when he flies off Malinga's ship and tells Don, "Do you realize who I am?" and keeps saying how he can't be killed.

In fact the series did a good job wrapping up all it's villains:

- Malinga and Scul/Bean crashed into the sun and died

- Chein Khan is kicked by April into the portal of the demon world with No'Tar'Daar and is likely killed there.

- Armaggon was trapped in dimension limbo at the end of the Merdude mini-series.

- Verminator X is shot by Raph at the end of the Cyber Turtles arc, then at the end we see Don "reprogrammed" him to make him good again and work with them.

- Rat King is washed away at the end of the Future Shark arc.

- Null escapes as he's implied to be unkillable, but now dies in "Odyssey"

- Shredder goes insane and loses his mind at the end of "Year of the Turtle."


It could have been a series with a lot of loose ends, but nearly everything was tied up.

Um yea, the only thing about that is Odyssey is still technically a fan comic; no matter how much you want it to be canon, it's not.

Also Year of the Turtle was kind of an alternate reality. Sorry to burst your bubble on that, but hey if you wanna make that your head-canon that's all you, man.

pferreira
03-30-2017, 08:34 AM
The one where Bebop and Rocksteady decided to get naked and disappear forever.Strangely enough that's of the few memories I have of the comic. :lol:

You're cute when you're autistic. :trazz:Oh boy I love when people on the Internet throw around autism and mental health as though it's fun to diagnose people you don't like with. :roll:

I, uh... Look, I know you like just about anything TMNT as long as it's not without some redeeming qualitiesPersonally I think Cubed is setting a good example. There has to be some good things to come out of every TMNT so why not praise those qualities?

CyberCubed
03-30-2017, 11:32 AM
Um yea, the only thing about that is Odyssey is still technically a fan comic; no matter how much you want it to be canon, it's not.

Also Year of the Turtle was kind of an alternate reality. Sorry to burst your bubble on that, but hey if you wanna make that your head-canon that's all you, man.

I consider them canon for now, if "The Forever War" ever comes out though, then that will be the new canon.

Also where did Andrew get the idea of the Mutanimals dead spirits coming back to get their revenge on Null and kill him. Was that from Murphy's notes or is that entirely his idea alone?

TigerClaw
03-30-2017, 11:36 AM
I consider them canon for now, if "The Forever War" ever comes out though, then that will be the new canon.

Also where did Andrew get the idea of the Mutanimals dead spirits coming back to get their revenge on Null and kill him. Was that from Murphy's notes or is that entirely his idea alone?
I wish they released The Forever War, That's another set in the future.

CyberCubed
03-30-2017, 12:09 PM
I really like how the Future TMNT in Archie also live for hundreds of years, I think that's something that started in this series and then continued into Mirage.

It seems in all other Turtle universes their lifespans are the same as humans and live for about 80 years or so and then die. That's why there were no "old TMNT" in Fast Forward in the year 2105.

TigerClaw
03-30-2017, 12:18 PM
I really like how the Future TMNT in Archie also live for hundreds of years, I think that's something that started in this series and then continued into Mirage.

It seems in all other Turtle universes their lifespans are the same as humans and live for about 80 years or so and then die. That's why there were no "old TMNT" in Fast Forward in the year 2105.
I guess cause there mutation also slowed down the aging process, which is why they managed to live so long.

Weapons@theready
03-30-2017, 01:17 PM
- The Four Horseman storyarc, which had the Mutanimals team up with the Turtles against Null and the Four Horseman of the Apocaypse.

- The Future Shark arc, which of course made Armaggon a major villain, introduced the Future Turtles and their timeline, and had Shredder, Verminator-X and The Rat King all team up against them in an epic showdown.


- Megadeath/Malinga's last stand, etc. Malinga dies and burns into the sun, the Mutanimals are all dead, Slash sacrifices himself, Null transforms into a demon. This was all pretty shocking for what was a kids comics at the time.



These three right here...the Four Horsemen arc was my introduction to comic as a whole. I was in the first grade and had been in the hospital and my mom got me issue 38 as I healed up, that cover spread for those three issues was great
http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/15317/329696-31596-four-horsemen.jpg

CyberCubed
03-30-2017, 01:28 PM
I really liked how Archie weaved real life myths into the series. The Four Horseman, Angels, Vikings, demons, Gods, reincarnation, the underworld, zombies, brains, time travel, ghosts, the realistic looking gray aliens with the big black eyes, etc.

Between that and teaching kids of other religions and other countries during the travel arcs and the enviornmental stuff, it really was a nice way of bringing education to comics, even if it was a little hamfisted at times.

Jephael
03-30-2017, 03:29 PM
Also where did Andrew get the idea of the Mutanimals dead spirits coming back to get their revenge on Null and kill him. Was that from Murphy's notes or is that entirely his idea alone?

Um, that's a good question. I never thought to ask him, even back when we worked on the fan fiction version of the story. It's most likely he just thought it up, of course I could be wrong.

CyberCubed
03-30-2017, 03:43 PM
Um, that's a good question. I never thought to ask him, even back when we worked on the fan fiction version of the story. It's most likely he just thought it up, of course I could be wrong.

If The Forever War ever gets published, I hope Murphy does something similar. It really is fitting karma for Null to be killed by the Mutanimals because he was the one responsible for their deaths.

Jephael
03-30-2017, 03:48 PM
If The Forever War ever gets published, I hope Murphy does something similar. It really is fitting karma for Null to be killed by the Mutanimals because he was the one responsible for their deaths.

Only time will tell, man. Frankly I kinda prefer seeing them get resurrected, be it either through the Turnstone, time travel or heck maybe they didn't die at all. Maybe those guys we saw get blown away were just clones or something the whole time and the real Mutanimals have been in hiding.

CyberCubed
03-30-2017, 03:49 PM
Only time will tell, man. Frankly I kinda prefer seeing them get resurrected, be it either through the Turnstone, time travel or heck maybe they didn't die at all. Maybe those guys we saw get blown away were just clones or something the whole time.

Nah, that would just ruin the impact of their deaths. There is an afterlife in Archie apparently, so their spirits will find peace.

Also found it weird that Jagwar's mother apparently never found out he died, simply because she never appeared again in the later issues.

Jephael
03-30-2017, 03:54 PM
Nah, that would just ruin the impact of their deaths. There is an afterlife in Archie apparently, so their spirits will find peace.

Also found it weird that Jagwar's mother apparently never found out he died, simply because she never appeared again in the later issues.

Okay, well look at it this way. In DC comics, characters are constantly being killed off and then brought back to life. While the trope has become a little too worn out, and even lampooned, it all dates back to that iconic storyline from the 90s where Superman died fighting Doomsday, only to be brought back a year later. It can be done right, if executed properly, and the impact of their death can still hold meaning.

Powder
03-30-2017, 03:56 PM
Personally I think Cubed is setting a good example. There has to be some good things to come out of every TMNT so why not praise those qualities?

So what do you like best about Image's Volume 3?

CyberCubed
03-30-2017, 03:56 PM
That's why i prefer not for it happen here, the Mutanimals dying was shocking especially in a book aimed at kids, and it was completely unexpected.

Especially with what the Mutanimals were trying to accomplish. Wingnut/Screwlooses hopes and dreams after he was the last survivor of his planet, Man Ray trying to clean up pollution, Jagwar walking the path of the 4 winds, Leatherhead being a friend of the Turtles, Mondo Gecko being a cool dude, and Dreadmon being uh...Dreadmon.

You usually don't see heroes die who are meant to be uplifting to children. It's great it happened.

Jephael
03-30-2017, 04:00 PM
That's why i prefer not for it happen here, the Mutanimals dying was shocking especially in a book aimed at kids, and it was completely unexpected.

Especially with what the Mutanimals were trying to accomplish. Wingnut/Screwlooses hopes and dreams after he was the last survivor of his planet, Man Ray trying to clean up pollution, Jagwar walking the path of the 4 winds, Leatherhead being a friend of the Turtles, Mondo Gecko being a cool dude, and Dreadmon being uh...Dreadmon.

You usually don't see heroes die who are meant to be uplifting to children. It's great it happened.

I can't help but notice you never seem to bring up Mondo's relationship with his girlfriend Candy Fine. She was an integral part of the Terracide story, especially when Null kidnapped her and made her into his love slave. It's also a big reason why I feel bringing the Mutanimals back to life could actually work well to some capacity down the road. At the very least, we could see them having adventures in the afterlife... like some kind of "Mutanimals in Purgatory" type deal.

neatoman
03-30-2017, 04:00 PM
So what do you like best about Image's Volume 3?

psXJBWuaO14

CyberCubed
03-30-2017, 04:06 PM
I can't help but notice you never seem to bring up Mondo's relationship with his girlfriend Candy Fine. She was an integral part of the Terracide story, especially when Null kidnapped her and made her into his love slave. It's also a big reason why I feel bringing the Mutanimals back to life could actually work well to some capacity down the road. At the very least, we could see them having adventures in the afterlife... like some kind of "Mutanimals in Purgatory" type deal.

There's one pin-up page in one of the issues after that story that shows them all with halo's in their heads and saying, "This is heaven, eh?"

Jephael
03-30-2017, 04:19 PM
There's one pin-up page in one of the issues after that story that shows them all with halo's in their heads and saying, "This is heaven, eh?"

I know, but that's all it was... a pin up. It wasn't necessarily canon. The only reason they made that piece of artwork was to compensate for that disturbing image of the Mutanimals burning in Hell!!!

CyberCubed
03-30-2017, 06:03 PM
Another thing I notice is how many demons or Gods there are in Archie.

We have Null who is essentially the devil. There's Noi-Taar-Daar, the Japanese Oni that Chein Khan was trying to ressurect. There's the red demon woman from issue #46 when Raph/Ninjara briefly walk into the underworld. Then there's Animus, the huge purple demon who made everyone in the Middle East fight.

On the other side there are a ton of "good" Gods, like the Japanese man/wife from the same arc, that floating creature Don saw in the 1492 issue, the Sons of Silence, whatever the hell Golani was, and then Dimension X warlords like Cherubae.

Lot's of mystical stuff in Archie to balance out all the mutants or aliens.

Rooish
03-30-2017, 10:28 PM
No one liked the Moon Eyes saga? :lol:

I really liked the Dreamland arc... it was cool to see his vision of what the Turtles had become in their middle age. I loved how Raph liked owned a bar and the other three were continuing to do heroic things with their lives.

That's why i prefer not for it happen here, the Mutanimals dying was shocking especially in a book aimed at kids, and it was completely unexpected.

Especially with what the Mutanimals were trying to accomplish. Wingnut/Screwlooses hopes and dreams after he was the last survivor of his planet, Man Ray trying to clean up pollution, Jagwar walking the path of the 4 winds, Leatherhead being a friend of the Turtles, Mondo Gecko being a cool dude, and Dreadmon being uh...Dreadmon.

You usually don't see heroes die who are meant to be uplifting to children. It's great it happened.

Jeez, when you put it like this it sounds really damn heavy.

CyberCubed
03-31-2017, 12:47 AM
Moon-Eyes saga was a fitting ending to Ninjara. I find it pretty funny she was written off right before the entire series itself ended.

Rooish
04-01-2017, 02:01 PM
I thought it was interesting that Murphy chose to write that story. Raphael generally just gets away with being a jerk and it was interesting to see him get dumped for it, although at the time it felt like Raph was Murphy's favourite turtle to write.

CyberCubed
04-01-2017, 02:08 PM
I'd really like to know the story of how Murphy came up with some characters. Like Malinga, Verminator X, Null, and some of the other character that were brand new to the series, like Al'Falqa or Katamundo. Since these characters weren't from the cartoon or toyline, Murphy created them himself.

I also find it odd that for all the characters he did chose to use, other mutants like the Punk Frogs, Mona Lisa, or Mutagen Man were completely ignored and didn't appear at all.

Vicky82
04-01-2017, 02:14 PM
I never read the Archie comic series but there is a story I know about and that is where Mikey is blind and later captured and tortured. I would love to see this done in the Nick toon if it wasn't ending.

CyberCubed
04-01-2017, 02:37 PM
I never read the Archie comic series but there is a story I know about and that is where Mikey is blind and later captured and tortured. I would love to see this done in the Nick toon if it wasn't ending.

Yeah, that happens later on. He and the other Turtles also get captured by the U.S. government at that point. It's a story, as well as it's Volume 2 counterpart, that basically inspired Bishop's creation in the 4kids series.

TigerClaw
04-01-2017, 03:21 PM
I'd really like to know the story of how Murphy came up with some characters. Like Malinga, Verminator X, Null, and some of the other character that were brand new to the series, like Al'Falqa or Katamundo. Since these characters weren't from the cartoon or toyline, Murphy created them himself.

I also find it odd that for all the characters he did chose to use, other mutants like the Punk Frogs, Mona Lisa, or Mutagen Man were completely ignored and didn't appear at all.
I don't know how Mona Lisa would fit in the Archie series universe, when Raph and Ninjara are paired as love interests.

Andrew NDB
04-03-2017, 02:34 PM
Also where did Andrew get the idea of the Mutanimals dead spirits coming back to get their revenge on Null and kill him.

That was all me.

Jephael
04-10-2017, 02:14 AM
Hey Cubed, you keep sidetracking my query in regards to Mondo Gecko's girlfriend Candy Fine. What were your thoughts about her? Did you find her interesting, or do you feel she was an unnecessary character?

Also in regards to having the Mutanimals resurrected, it wouldn't be that big of a stretch considering all the different ways it's been done stuff like that in other comics and even anime. Ever watch Dragonball Z? They wish that dragon spirit to wish people back from the dead like all the time in that show, and they come back completely normal... no un-dead zombie stuff there!

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 02:26 AM
I thought Candy Fine was...well...fine. She was ok, I liked her design when Null hypnotized her on Malinga's ship.

And nah, the Mutanimals should stay dead. To undo that does away with the impact it had, and is still felt today, 20 years later. Bringing them back briefly as spirits to get their revenge on Null like Andrew did was fine however.

Jephael
04-10-2017, 02:36 AM
And nah, the Mutanimals should stay dead. To undo that does away with the impact it had, and is still felt today, 20 years later. Bringing them back briefly as spirits to get their revenge on Null like Andrew did was fine however.

Okay, but then by that logic bringing back Goku (the Dragonball character... not the Dromer), Barry Allen, Agent Phil Coulson and so many other characters from the great fictional beyond can be considered just as bad. I guess having lost so many loved ones over the last decade or so (my beloved Uncle Sherman being a most recent casualty) makes me kinda wish there was a way to bring them back, hence why I like the idea of resurrecting characters in such a way.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
04-14-2017, 01:56 PM
Japanese religions (deities and demons) seemed to be the true religion in Archie, but we also see Adam and Eve in one Mutanimals. Maybe a mix (combined with Big Bang, evolution and old-aged Earth and Universe)

darthsmozers
04-16-2017, 07:46 PM
Loved them all - these were my TMNT growing up. You (OP) listed pretty much all the great stories. Even the not-so-great ones have beautiful artwork thanks to Chris Allan. I loved the first April miniseries, which I don't think has been mentioned yet. (I wish they collected it in the trades after the Japanese issues). I loved Sarnath, Stump Wrestling, Future Turtles... I LOVED the 1492 issue.