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View Full Version : Official Episode Discussion S5 Ep 03: Heart of Evil


victory_angel
04-01-2017, 02:34 AM
Things are coming to a head as the Foot Clan strives to bring the Shredder back to life. With the Kurokabuto in the Foot Clan's possession, that leaves only Shredder's heart as the final key to Shredder's resurrection.

But who has the heart? And why? What is Kavaxas's ultimate goal in this?

However, it seems our heroes also have problems on their hands when Donnie is deciding to pull a Raph and settle a score with Vizioso? Will this out of character moment for the Turtle teams resident brainiac cost them their last chance with stopping the Shredder's return?

CyberCubed
04-01-2017, 02:40 AM
Great episode, hilarious too. Love the mob and the action and development for Donatello.

"We're going to party like it's 1995!"

Vicky82
04-02-2017, 08:42 AM
Great episode, loved the fight scenes. Kavaxas killed again this time, The Hammer.

I thought it was strange and gross that Don Vizioso actually got Shredder's heart, did he get someone to go to Shredder's old hide out to look for his body and take his heart out of his dead body, yuck!!!!

It was shocking to see Donnie so angry, he could of killed Don Vizioso in cold blood but it does look like he did kill 2 henchman by breaking there necks. Good thing Donnie snapped out of his anger when Leo shouted out "Don't lose sight of who you are" and then he saw his reflection in the blade.

Mikey was awesome again, he lured Tiger Claw away pretending he had the seal but it turned out to be a pizza. Another amazing thing he did is that Mikey had to choose between getting killed by Tiger Claw or risk getting killed by jumping from train and he ended up jumped from the train and he landed badly, he was alive but injured. He was so brave.

Team Kick butt Babes :lol:

Mikey when he said that Leo going solo is stale :lol:

victory_angel
04-02-2017, 11:42 AM
Great episode, loved the fight scenes. Kavaxas killed again this time, The Hammer.

I thought it was strange and gross that Don Vizioso actually got Shredder's heart, did he get someone to go to Shredder's old hide out to look for his body and take his heart out of his dead body, yuck!!!!

It was shocking to see Donnie so angry, he could of killed Don Vizioso in cold blood but it does look like he did kill 2 henchman by breaking there necks. Good thing Donnie snapped out of his anger when Leo shouted out "Don't lose sight of who you are" and then he saw his reflection in the blade.

Mikey was awesome again, he lured Tiger Claw away pretending he had the seal but it turned out to be a pizza. Another amazing thing he did is that Mikey had to choose between getting killed by Tiger Claw or risk getting killed by jumping from train and he ended up jumped from the train and he landed badly, he was alive but injured. He was so brave.

Team Kick butt Babes :lol:

Mikey when he said that Leo going solo is stale :lol:

Makes you wonder what would have happened if Donnie had succeeded. I mean there would be a backlash to be sure

ToTheNines
04-02-2017, 12:14 PM
I didn't notice when I watched the DVD, but Vizioso let off a certain hand gesture that the censors missed right before firing his gun when Leo and Don busted in...

http://editorial.designtaxi.com/news-italian2403/5.gif

TigerClaw
04-02-2017, 12:26 PM
Great episode, hilarious too. Love the mob and the action and development for Donatello.

"We're going to party like it's 1995!"
I wonder what the 1995 is a reference too?

neatoman
04-02-2017, 12:28 PM
Can't you get cancer from eating a burnt mutant heart?

I wonder what the 1995 is a reference too?

The year Bebop and Rocksteady vanished from the franchise for 20 years?

CyberCubed
04-02-2017, 12:31 PM
Maybe it's a reference to some popular gangster/mob movie from 1995 too?

***First of Two Latin Kings***
04-02-2017, 12:35 PM
If you guys liked this, wait until you see he finale to this story arc.

Vicky82
04-02-2017, 12:37 PM
If you guys liked this, wait until you see he finale to this story arc.

Think most of us have already seen it.

matteso586
04-02-2017, 01:39 PM
I find what Kavaxas said to April while she's trying to get that seal to work as nightmare fuel. Makes you wonder which of Mark Hamill's characters did the most chilling speeches.

Would be better if Vizioso and the Italian mob blames the alien attacks on the mutants.

The end scene reminded me of Tengu Shredder's resurrection.

CyberCubed
04-02-2017, 01:56 PM
The end scene reminded me of Tengu Shredder's resurrection.

The arc is very similar. In the 2k3 version they were also trying to reunite Shredder's helmet, gauntlet and body, and now in the Nick version they do almost the same thing.

Then again the whole reviving Shredder thing after he got his head chopped off is all a loose adaption of his revival in Mirage in the first place.

IndigoErth
04-02-2017, 02:01 PM
Ohhhhkay there, vengeful Donnie. o.O

Why do I feel like if Donnie lost his mind he'd gladly experiment on his enemies... lol :teek: Suppressed evil (but only to baddies) mad scientist lurking within that one. :tlol:


Apparently just hurrying up and eating the heart, preventing anyone else from getting it, did not cross Don Vizioso's mind. If that would presumably not lead to anything other than destroying it, heck it would have saved the Turtles some trouble as well... just force him to eat it, making sure he chews well, and be done with it. lol


And exactly how big are Tiger Claw's hand-paws?? The seal fits right in his palm fine, yet in April's hands it's almost the size of a damn pizza tray. Eesh.

ToTheNines
04-02-2017, 02:03 PM
The arc is very similar. In the 2k3 version they were also trying to reunite Shredder's helmet, gauntlet and body, and now in the Nick version they do almost the same thing.

Then again the whole reviving Shredder thing after he got his head chopped off is all a loose adaption of his revival in Mirage in the first place.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Ninja Tribunal.

CyberCubed
04-02-2017, 02:05 PM
This has absolutely nothing to do with Ninja Tribunal.

You don't notice any similarities at all with them trying to revive Shredder by reuniting his helmet with his body and all the villains fighting the Turtles over it?

oldmanwinters
04-02-2017, 02:31 PM
I wonder what the 1995 is a reference too?

It's a dated joke as people used to say "Party like it's 1999." Rocksteady was too stupid to remember it right.

ToTheNines
04-02-2017, 02:41 PM
It's a dated joke as people used to say "Party like it's 1999." Rocksteady was too stupid to remember it right.

It's from and old Prince song lol.

TigerClaw
04-02-2017, 04:03 PM
It's a dated joke as people used to say "Party like it's 1999." Rocksteady was too stupid to remember it right.
But 1995 seems very specific, We know that the show tends to throw in references to things, that usually hardcore fans would notice.

oldmanwinters
04-02-2017, 04:12 PM
But 1995 seems very specific, We know that the show tends to throw in references to things, that usually hardcore fans would notice.

I don't think the reference is TMNT specific. It's pretty much all a botched Prince shoutout.

IndigoErth
04-02-2017, 04:19 PM
Agree, I doubt it references anything. Seems more in line with the fact that this Rocksteady just says things a little wrong sometimes. (Imo no so much because this version is dumb, but just that English isn't his first language so stuff gets lost in translation a little.)

CyberCubed
04-02-2017, 04:21 PM
But 1995 seems very specific, We know that the show tends to throw in references to things, that usually hardcore fans would notice.

The only reference it could be is by 1995 Bebop/Rocksteady never appeared again from that point up until Turtles Forever in 2009.

Bebop/Rocksteady's final episode in the original cartoon was Season 8's last episode in 1994.

PApagreg
04-02-2017, 05:10 PM
Below average episode for me. Donnie's need for vengeance felt too weird to be taken seriously with how in previous episodes we seem him shot, battered, thrown, battered, disintegrated, getting defenestrated and battered, you would think being almost vivisected would't really bother him but apparently thats enough to make him the Punisher.

CyberCubed
04-02-2017, 05:35 PM
I don't see why Don's vengeance isn't justified, since this isn't just a random monster mutant or alien, but an actual human with racist actions against mutants. I don't see why it would be a below average episode, I'm not sure what you want from this show.

victory_angel
04-02-2017, 05:45 PM
I wonder what the 1995 is a reference too?

It's actually a miswording of the phrase "party like it's 1999"

GoldMutant
04-02-2017, 05:46 PM
Below average episode for me. Donnie's need for vengeance felt too weird to be taken seriously with how in previous episodes we seem him shot, battered, thrown, battered, disintegrated, getting defenestrated and battered, you would think being almost vivisected would't really bother him but apparently thats enough to make him the Punisher. Below average episode for me, Donnie's need for vengeance felt too weird to be taken seriously with how in previous episodes we seem him shot, battered, thrown, battered, disintegrated, getting defenestrated and battered, you would think being almost vivisected would't really bother him but I guess not. Also I didn't really care for the whole vengeance aesop.

So, why are these sentences the same barring some wording differences?

TigerClaw
04-02-2017, 05:47 PM
Donnie wanting vengeance seems out of character for him, I would understand if it were Raph, But Donnie? He isnt the type that would hold a grudge.

ToTheNines
04-02-2017, 05:51 PM
But 1995 seems very specific, We know that the show tends to throw in references to things, that usually hardcore fans would notice.

The only reference it could be is by 1995 Bebop/Rocksteady never appeared again from that point up until Turtles Forever in 2009.

Bebop/Rocksteady's final episode in the original cartoon was Season 8's last episode in 1994.

You guys are reeeeeally reaching. It's a popular 80's song. Rocksteady misquotes common American sayings and phrases pretty much every single episode he's in. It's his shtick.

But y'all can believe whatever you want. Even if you yourselves don't even know what he's "referencing" lol.

PApagreg
04-02-2017, 06:08 PM
So, why are these sentences the same barring some wording differences?

Accidentally pasted twice, my bad

victory_angel
04-03-2017, 02:26 AM
Donnie wanting vengeance seems out of character for him, I would understand if it were Raph, But Donnie? He isnt the type that would hold a grudge.

I actually agree. Don's been in various situations where he and his brothers have nearly been killed before.

Tiger Claw holds him down and nearly stabs him with Raph's sai. Donnie hasn't held any grudge against him.

Karai has tried to kill April on a couple of occasions, as well as poisoned and tortured all four turtles, and while that has made things more personal he hasn't held a grudge against her.

The whole vengeance thing was meant to show Donnie descending down a path that would only destroy everything that matters to him. Which is why that moment when he catches sight of the manic look in his eyes in the blade of his Naginata he gets scared because he realizes he's essentially becoming like the Shredder.


The only explanation for the out of character behavior I could come up with was two possibilities.

1. a few of Za-noran's particles exist in Donnie and they are slowly corrupting him. But as none of the arcs feel they have room for something like that it feels less likely.

2. Splinter's loss is causing it. Donnie was one of the Turtles who took Splinter's loss rather hard. If you watch the scene Leo, Raph, and Mikey are openly weeping for Splinter, but Donnie makes a noise like the actual impact of the loss itself is causing him pain.

On top of losing his father his retromutagen failed, he's the first to be knocked out of the final fight with Shredder in a way he was denied his chance at vengeance. And now on top of a demonic dragon, they have to deal with the Shredder being returned. And he has this whole back up of rage and emotion to let out that he just finds Vizioso a worthy target.

As much as I loved the Leo/Donnie bonding I feel this episode should have had Raph be the one to help counter Donnie's anger. After all Raph was there when Donnie was abducted by Vizioso's goons, he was also was the reason behind it.

So it would have been an interesting twist for Raph to see what his brothers experience when he goes into one of his rages.

ssjup81
04-03-2017, 04:17 AM
Agree, I doubt it references anything. Seems more in line with the fact that this Rocksteady just says things a little wrong sometimes. (Imo no so much because this version is dumb, but just that English isn't his first language so stuff gets lost in translation a little.)Yeah, this. It's like Ziva from NCIS. Her character did that all the time, and one can't be too stupid if they managed to learn a second language.

Aaronardo
04-03-2017, 02:50 PM
Pretty good episode, about the same quality as the last two. Some great stuff, some pretty bad stuff. From the way that final scene was written, I feel like Donnie actually was going to kill Vizioso only to regret it later. It just felt very ham-handed in comparison to the rest of the episode.

Kavaxas still as rad as always. Bebop and Rocksteady gave some legitimate laughs to this episode. And of course, it's a sequel to Mutant Gangland which is definitely not a bad thing. Unfortunately, it's one of those clumsy "Leo is always right" episodes, and from my opinion on Clash of the Mutanimals, you know how I feel about those.

Also, "We're taking the heart and you're going to jail!" I mean, I can't get over that line. That is meme-quality levels of bad right there.

shredder orokusaki
04-03-2017, 03:00 PM
Muhahaahahhahah hehhahahahahahaha hihihiihihihihihahhahahahahaah


finaly!!!! Finaly!!! I rise again!!! Now with my demon army i will conquer new york city and kill the turtles!!!1!!

lonewarrior20
04-03-2017, 03:56 PM
Muhahaahahhahah hehhahahahahahaha hihihiihihihihihahhahahahahaah


finaly!!!! Finaly!!! I rise again!!! Now with my demon army i will conquer new york city and kill the turtles!!!1!!

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/58687196/mayor-lenny-somebody-get-me-the-ghostbusters.jpg

ToTheNines
04-03-2017, 04:08 PM
it's one of those clumsy "Leo is always right" episodes.

Exactly. I hate that. Leo just ****ing decapitated Shredder 3 episodes ago, and now he's all high and mighty over Vizioso.

Not to mention they've tried to kill Shredder multiple times before that, they've tried to kill snakeweed every time they fought him, Splinter killed Rat King, LH killed Bradford, the list goes on.

CyberCubed
04-03-2017, 04:28 PM
I suppose the difference is Shredder had to die because of what he did (he killed Splinter, was their mortal enemy for life), but Leonardo doesn't view other enemies the same way.

ssjup81
04-03-2017, 05:13 PM
Exactly. I hate that. Leo just ****ing decapitated Shredder 3 episodes ago, and now he's all high and mighty over Vizioso.

Not to mention they've tried to kill Shredder multiple times before that, they've tried to kill snakeweed every time they fought him, Splinter killed Rat King, LH killed Bradford, the list goes on.Shredder had become a danger to them and himself. Like Mikey was saying to Karai, he could come after her, April, Casey and his family, etc., since he was no longer in his right state of mind.

That aside, it may have been three eps ago, but months have gone by since then. Tigerclaw said as much.

Anarchistguy
04-03-2017, 05:19 PM
https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/58687196/mayor-lenny-somebody-get-me-the-ghostbusters.jpg

Which team?

lonewarrior20
04-03-2017, 05:41 PM
Which team?

depends, i mean the original ghost busters kong, spencer, and tracy couldn't pull it off. neither could their kids jake and eddie. the real ghostbusters most likely could. and since my meme is from the second movie where the live action team had to take on vego and a slime covered museum in a slimed statue of liberty i think they could too. then again the extreme ghostbusters probably could pull it off. as for the new all female team i'm not sure just because i've yet to see the new movie. i'm not boycotting it i just haven't had a chance to. and lets not also forget the idw team. or would those count as an off shoot of the movie ghostbusters?

PApagreg
04-03-2017, 11:15 PM
Exactly. I hate that. Leo just ****ing decapitated Shredder 3 episodes ago, and now he's all high and mighty over Vizioso.

Not to mention they've tried to kill Shredder multiple times before that, they've tried to kill snakeweed every time they fought him, Splinter killed Rat King, LH killed Bradford, the list goes on.

You know I gotta play Kavaxas advocate here and say that at least in this situation they had a non lethal alternative in getting rid of Vizioso.

victory_angel
04-04-2017, 10:26 AM
I believe Donnie's behavior was more fear based rather then anger based. They had lost Splinter already that was a huge impact already. So knowing Vizioso had it out for them was what triggered Donnie into pulling a Raph, because he didn't want to lose anyone else he cared about to senseless violence and hatred.

LeotheLateBloomer
04-04-2017, 11:44 AM
Donnie wanting vengeance seems out of character for him, I would understand if it were Raph, But Donnie? He isnt the type that would hold a grudge.

I don't think it's completely out of character. I honestly like that Don has an aggressive side. It shows that he can be as deadly as his brothers.

IndigoErth
04-04-2017, 12:03 PM
I kinda wish that Donnie thing was hinting at some kind of upcoming arc for him, were the series not ending.

Meliwen
04-04-2017, 12:14 PM
I believe Donnie's behavior was more fear based rather then anger based. They had lost Splinter already that was a huge impact already. So knowing Vizioso had it out for them was what triggered Donnie into pulling a Raph, because he didn't want to lose anyone else he cared about to senseless violence and hatred.
I like this explanation.

But this goes back to the one thing I was a bit disappointed about these episodes. We aren't seeing how the turtles fare after Splinter's death, we're just seeing how Leo fares. I like how Leo feels over burdened with his responsibilities, but that doesn't mean the show has to focus on him without even just one sentence about how the others are doing. If Splinter's death is a reason for Donnie's outburst, if he's afraid of losing his other family members too, then just one mention in the episodes before this, or even this one, would have really helped bring it into perspective.

LeotheLateBloomer
04-04-2017, 12:45 PM
^I agree. Leo going from the loss of his dear father and having to take charge of his family to excited to watch Space Heroes again that quickly is head-scratching. With his brothers especially, it's like nothing ever happened after the finale.

Powder
04-04-2017, 04:51 PM
^I agree. Leo going from the loss of his dear father and having to take charge of his family to excited to watch Space Heroes again that quickly is head-scratching. With his brothers especially, it's like nothing ever happened after the finale.

Have you never been depressed before? You hyperfocus on the things that make you happy. Hell, it's why many of us are here.

LeotheLateBloomer
04-04-2017, 05:09 PM
For me, it takes a while to get over a death in the family. I'd like to cherish all the good times I had with them before I can even move on and do the things that make me happy.

victory_angel
04-05-2017, 05:03 AM
^I agree. Leo going from the loss of his dear father and having to take charge of his family to excited to watch Space Heroes again that quickly is head-scratching. With his brothers especially, it's like nothing ever happened after the finale.

It's not explicitly stated yet Tigerclaw does say several months have passed since the Shredders death but it is implied that quite a bit of time has happened since Splinter and Shredders deaths. The others have commented that being the head of the family has been a hard burden on Leo.

Also everyone deals with grief in their own way, it's not always immediate. For example I had a friend who was a younger pseudo-sister to me. She passed away at the age of 21 in 2009. When I was informed of her death I didn't greive for her right away. I was largely in shock and I would find myself looking at my AOL messenger as though hoping she would pop up online and say "you are such a dork, I can't believe you actually thought I was dead." I didn't actually break down and cry until a few days later.

With my father it took me years before I actually gave into grief I felt when he abandoned me. Don't get me wrong I love my dad, but I still hate him for who he is and what he's done.

As for Leo himself he strikes me as a Deal with the Task at hand and deal with problems later. The task at hand was to prevent the Shredder from being resurrected. And to do that they had to prevent the heart from falling into the Foot Clans hands. But I do agree that more could be done with the problem that was Donatello in that episode. Such as maybe have Leo grumble "Donnie, what is wrong with you?" Somewhere between the the set up and climax of the story.

LeotheLateBloomer
04-05-2017, 06:51 AM
I see. Thanks for explaining this. :)

IndigoErth
04-05-2017, 02:08 PM
Eh, cut Leo a little slack. His teacher and father expected him to take full lead if he, Splinter, was no longer around and Leo is not going to want to betray or fail his father's expectations. And of course it came to pass, while he's still rather young, with siblings to watch over and worry for their well being and survival of in a world that would want to and think little of killing them. (Not to mention a likewise orphaned adoptive sister to worry about.) If this series was capable of more depth, it's a wonder he doesn't become overwhelmed by the stress at some point and have a break down.

No wonder he'd eagerly get into a little distraction via a second series of a cartoon he loves. It at least gives him a short period of giving his mind a rest from everything else, which is understandable.

I can say from experience that I've done both... I've laid around depressed for a long period after a loss, with no interest in much of anything. On the other hand, after the last hard loss of my father, I started out feeling that way, but the Turtles gave me reason to smile and something to feel good about.


Sure, "Leo is right" is going to happen still, and possibly more, because he's got even more reason to be hyper vigilant in what's going on around them and making decisions. Not that the others aren't and can't be right and Leo should definitely hear them out, but its understandable that he's going to be quicker now to put his foot down. Dad can't come help anymore; no one is on the other end of the cheese phone.

Powder
04-05-2017, 04:10 PM
For me, it takes a while to get over a death in the family. I'd like to cherish all the good times I had with them before I can even move on and do the things that make me happy.

Nobody said he was over it. But most people use the things they love to mask the pain, so, yeah...

THGhost
04-05-2017, 04:32 PM
Good episode. Didn't think they'd get Shredder's heart so soon. :tthumbsu:

When is Kavaxas gonna pull a Starscream and betray Tiger Claw? I can feel it coming.

Dust
04-05-2017, 04:38 PM
Good episode. Didn't think they'd get Shredder's heart so soon. :tthumbsu:

When is Kavaxas gonna pull a Starscream and betray Tiger Claw? I can feel it coming.

Well, the arc is only 4 episodes long so I'm assuming next episode. Same reason as to how they got Shredder's heart so fast. I prefer this way though, less filler required, more time for different stories despite the season being smaller.

THGhost
04-06-2017, 08:54 AM
Well, the arc is only 4 episodes long so I'm assuming next episode. Same reason as to how they got Shredder's heart so fast. I prefer this way though, less filler required, more time for different stories despite the season being smaller.

True. True. I got the feeling that Kavaxas was going to betray Tiger Claw in this episode, he seemed at breaking point. So it's highly likely it'll happen next episode.

MCLeo28
04-06-2017, 02:27 PM
I also got this impression and believed it was foreshadowed quite a bit. Even Kavaxus's devious smirk when Tiger Claw questioned Kavaxus's interest in Shredder's resurrection seemed to hint that Kavaxus would betray him eventually.

I still wonder what happens to Fishface in the midst of all of this because he is not present in the sneak-peak for the final episode and we're even told that there would be a rematch between Fishface and Raphael at some point. Perhaps Fishface lives on and gets defeated once and for all by Raphael?

Vicky82
04-06-2017, 02:30 PM
I also got this impression and believed it was foreshadowed quite a bit. Even Kavaxus's devious smirk when Tiger Claw questioned Kavaxus's interest in Shredder's resurrection seemed to hint that Kavaxus would betray him eventually.

I still wonder what happens to Fishface in the midst of all of this because he is not present in the sneak-peak for the final episode and we're even told that there would be a rematch between Fishface and Raphael at some point. Perhaps Fishface lives on and gets defeated once and for all by Raphael?

As I've already seen End Times, don't expect anything big to happen to Fishface.

THGhost
04-06-2017, 09:34 PM
As I've already seen End Times

Korea? Again?

MCLeo28
04-06-2017, 09:42 PM
As I've already seen End Times, don't expect anything big to happen to Fishface.

Yeah, I didn't catch your post when I made my response.

My response was more in reference to Fishface being seen in the distant future since obviously there isn't enough room to fit in Fishface's vendetta.

ssjup81
04-06-2017, 10:07 PM
Korea? Again?The DVD release that had the last few eps of season 4 and the first four of season 5. I saw the eps already tooabout two or three weeks ago.

Vicky82
04-06-2017, 11:49 PM
Korea? Again?

No, the new DVD came out in America and it had the 4 latest episodes on it, so 3 episodes (The Forgotten Swordsman, Heart of Evil and End Times) were already seen before they aired on TV.

PApagreg
04-07-2017, 12:02 AM
You know, another thing I found weird was when Donnie first confronted Vizisio he takes the heart, but instead of striking him in any way he turns his back on him and does a victory pose. That seems very weird to me considering how in the beginning episode we see Donnie gunning for the mob boss but he doesn't take a chance to so much as hit him, its like if Kurapika from HXH captured a spider but instead of hitting him/her he did the Can-Can

THGhost
04-08-2017, 09:16 AM
The DVD release that had the last few eps of season 4 and the first four of season 5. I saw the eps already tooabout two or three weeks ago.

No, the new DVD came out in America and it had the 4 latest episodes on it, so 3 episodes (The Forgotten Swordsman, Heart of Evil and End Times) were already seen before they aired on TV.

Wow, that's just... not normal. :P

BubblyShell22
05-03-2017, 08:40 AM
Pretty intense episode. I don't think Donnie having an aggressive side is OOC for him because I think the whole reason for it is because the Don was going to harm him and he couldn't take that lying down. Luckily he snapped out of it, but it makes me wonder if there's more there than meets the eye with Donnie. Loved how things played out though even if the good guys lost again.

Faster and Cheaper
07-15-2017, 04:35 PM
This was the first episode done by one of the blue teams, Team Leo. My old mentor from school was the lead and he had been on the show more or less from season 1. Not one of my episodes but in a studio teams help each other out. I helped out on the layout phase since we had some extra time during that phase for them.

Some good action as usual that one of the directors used a shot from to show us some workflow stuff when we first started. I remember seeing it and having an issue with Donny's revenge story. If this was a season 1 episode I could have understood it more but the last season of the show it just rang hollow.