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View Full Version : Official Episode Discussion S5 Ep 04: End Times


victory_angel
04-09-2017, 01:39 AM
It's come to this at last. The Shredder has been revived from the dead and now the Turtles have to face not just Kavaxas, but their worst enemy as well. How will they save the city?

CyberCubed
04-09-2017, 03:13 AM
Great episode. It could even arguably work as the series finale for the whole show.

FredWolfLeonardo
04-09-2017, 03:25 AM
Too bad zombie shredder wasn't defeated by falling wood. I was really hoping for that

neatoman
04-09-2017, 03:59 AM
Too bad zombie shredder wasn't defeated by falling wood. I was really hoping for that

OK, that was funny!

lonewarrior20
04-09-2017, 07:25 AM
i find it amazing that mikey pulled a bill and ted with the gum and the seal.

myconius
04-09-2017, 07:46 AM
very cool episode.


but where do they go from here?

Vicky82
04-09-2017, 08:01 AM
I enjoyed this episode and this story arc.

I loved that Mikey saved the world :D

"I really did meet Megan Fox on that Rooftop" :lol:

Splinter hugging Karai and saying goodbye to everyone :cry:

It looks like that this will be Fishface and Rahzar last appearance. Fishface went back to his old life as a thief and Rahzar went to the Netherworld.

Rahzar wasn't alive after all, he was also Undead like Shredder and taking orders from Kavaxas.


very cool episode.


but where do they go from here?

It's the Turtle Tots episode next and then Renet and Savanti Romero returns, so the Turtles will be time travelling after that.

GoldMutant
04-09-2017, 08:49 AM
It really felt like an entire episode with potential was skipped. Literally, the events with the Netherworld creatures summoned could've led to an additional final episode. Maybe if it were a five parter, they could've ended this with the demons summoned with a struggle against Ho Chan and Tatsu until Splinter showed up, end credits, then conclude in one more episode. Ho Chan and Tatsu really felt like afterthoughts, especially Tatsu.

It seemed Shredder went full circle though, almost redeeming himself to force Kavaxas back into the Netherworld. It was satisfying at the least, even if I prefer Owari being the end of his character. For some reason though, when Shredder struggled to throw Kavaxas into the portal it sounded like Leatherhead's voice, Peter Lurie, instead of Kevin Michael Richardson. The scream by Shredder was Richardson, but I don't know, my ears may have been playing tricks on me.

For being a multi-parter, End Times was a good conclusion for the first of seven major stories this season. However, I can't help but feel the pacing was a bit over the place. I already mentioned the Netherworld summoning, but maybe some bigger build with Tatsu in his debut, Kavaxas' motive (which felt tacked on personally), hell even Donnie vs Don Vizioso would've benefited from it. Even LH's ending line of "Tiger Claw has called for a truce" was almost tacked on, assuming it's the final time we see him and Fishface. (Rahzar is dead and Bebop and Rocksteady will return)

Otherwise, strong animation and voice performances. Thankfully Michelangelo saved the day for once, now if only Raphael can do the same this season; Leo and Don had their episodes in this arc, let Mikey and Raph get some limelight now.

IndigoErth
04-09-2017, 09:01 AM
Liked it a lot, though I'd have liked for this one to be twice as long and spend more time on the ghosts taking over the city. Kind of sucks waiting through the last commercial break and looking at the clock wondering how it's going to be wrapped up in 7 minutes or less... Good four-parter, but this last one - and coolest one - is kinda rushed to end it.

Very surprised that Shredder willingly went back, taking Kavaxas with him. I figured it would be Splinter who forces him back... but at least he did make an appearance like I hoped/figured. And at least he got to say goodbye. (Guess this might be the real end of him in the series? :() Little disappointed Kavaxas never truly got to turn on Tiger Claw, who I'd previously thought might have been dragged down too, but I guess he's having a change of heart instead.


Okay, new theory: Mikey sometimes sees small portions of other universe Mikeys' lives in his dreams. :tlol:

Aaronardo
04-09-2017, 11:59 AM
Oh, my god. Auman. The first rule of storytelling: SHOW. DON'T. TELL.

Too many instances in this episode have characters pulling random elements out of their asses (Mikey totally called for backup while nobody was looking, guys! Oh, didn't you know that Kavaxas had to do all these specific things in order to become free? Yeah, we really did forget to build damn near anything up for this episode). And then there's Auman's golden line: "I feel so bad for him/her." Instead of just telling the audience that Leo has a burden (probably the easiest thing to show this character do), just show it in a meaningful scene.

Also, what was with that useless "look for the light in the darkness" BS? Besides that being the most immediate go-to "old wise wisdom" remark, nothing that happened in the climax reflected that at all.

There really is a lot wrong with this episode, but probably the worst aspect of it is that it tries way too hard to do everything at once. In one scene, it's a Leo episode, but then they completely drop that in favor for putting the focus on Casey for one scene, then suddenly Fishface gets a rushed closure, then it tries to do something with Tiger Claw I think, then Shredder is a puppet of Kavaxas but then kinda isn't or something along those lines, then Mikey is the one who saves the day, and then Splinter comes back to the realm of the living I think (??) and then leaves again. This episode is way too packed it can't even give adequate time to one single character.

The very point of an arc, writers, is to show a story building up over time. If one episode feels too packed but the other three aren't quite as packed, your first impulse should be to disperse these elements into other episodes, or even add an episode if it gets this bad.

Did anyone honestly think that ending was earned? Mikey used gum to stick a piece of stone together to stop dead guys from emerging and just kinda hovering there. Kavaxas didn't emerge and show his power and/or terrorize the city with it. This wasn't nearly as bad as either Kraang invasions, The Super Shredder killing Splinter, or, y'know, the entire f*cking world being engulfed by a black hole. And yet, somehow, this event that is tiny and insignificant in comparison to damn near everything else that's happened in this New York City warrants a melodramatic "book-end" type ending. Not only does it not make sense in the context of the episode, but it's the fourth episode of the season.

But, I will give props to Mikey. Mikey was easily the most entertaining part of this entire episode to me. Watching him steal the slab from Tiger Claw (with comically fitting sound effects alongside) and then find the broken slab later on and repair it using bubble gum honestly got some laughs out of me. And, of course, I always love it when this show takes a stab at the Bay movies, so I got a kick out of that Megan Fox joke.

Otherwise... hoo boy this is the second coming of Earth's Last Stand imo. What a disappointment (which is saying a lot, considering last week wasn't exactly a piece of art).

Autbot_Benz
04-09-2017, 12:14 PM
Eric Bauza‏ @bauzilla 2m2 minutes ago

END TIMES.. Tiger Claw's last appearance. So grateful, to hav been a part of such an amazing series!! Thank You!!

Vicky82
04-09-2017, 12:23 PM
Eric Bauza‏ @bauzilla 2m2 minutes ago

END TIMES.. Tiger Claw's last appearance. So grateful, to hav been a part of such an amazing series!! Thank You!!

Aww that's a shame, I guess that means no more Alopex as well.

shredder orokusaki
04-09-2017, 12:31 PM
HAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Iam preparing my demon army now and soon we will attack evryone in new york city and kill the turtles and their allies. That why i went to underworld with the demon so we can prepare our attack on our enemies!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA I will be back very very soon!!!

Autbot_Benz
04-09-2017, 12:38 PM
HAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Iam preparing my demon army now and soon we will attack evryone in new york city and kill the turtles and their allies. That why i went to underworld with the demon so we can prepare our attack on our enemies!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA I will be back very very soon!!!

http://i.imgur.com/HNYnNih.jpg

Vicky82
04-09-2017, 12:44 PM
HAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Iam preparing my demon army now and soon we will attack evryone in new york city and kill the turtles and their allies. That why i went to underworld with the demon so we can prepare our attack on our enemies!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA I will be back very very soon!!!

Yeah you will be back in season 6, so at the moment you can piss off and come back for season 6.

ToTheNines
04-09-2017, 12:44 PM
Aww that's a shame, I guess that means no more Alopex as well.

I think Alopex is in season 5. Then again, maybe it's just Tang Shen: https://www.instagram.com/p/BQBmW8_Fri4/?hl=en

Either way, pretty lame that they're not gonna properly follow up on Tale of TigerClaw.

HAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Iam preparing my demon army now and soon we will attack evryone in new york city and kill the turtles and their allies. That why i went to underworld with the demon so we can prepare our attack on our enemies!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA I will be back very very soon!!!

When is the hiatus over?

Aaronardo
04-09-2017, 12:46 PM
Eric Bauza‏ @bauzilla 2m2 minutes ago

END TIMES.. Tiger Claw's last appearance. So grateful, to hav been a part of such an amazing series!! Thank You!!

"Hey guys, didn't ya hear? Tiger Claw made a truce!"

What a shame to end a character with so much potential in such a manner.

CyberCubed
04-09-2017, 12:53 PM
I'd be really surprised if this is Tiger Claw's last episode, maybe the VA doesn't want to spoil anything?

In any case don't see how this ep was rushed, the pacing was perfect. We don't need long drawn out events of the world being overrun by ghosts or Dead Shredder and Kavaxas roaming around for 20 episodes. They did it perfectly and it's about as much an ending I would have wanted for the show.

Also Splinter's final goodbye to both Miwa and the Turtles was fantastic, since he didn't get a proper farewell to them when he died. He now returned to the afterlife.

Sabacooza
04-09-2017, 01:14 PM
HAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Iam preparing my demon army now and soon we will attack evryone in new york city and kill the turtles and their allies. That why i went to underworld with the demon so we can prepare our attack on our enemies!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA I will be back very very soon!!!Stick a fork in yourself. You're done.

matteso586
04-09-2017, 01:39 PM
What are the odds that Fishface fled to the Caribbean?

Of all the dead villains, Kraang Prime, Rat King, The Hammer, Dregg, and Mozar didn't bother to show up.

TigerClaw
04-09-2017, 01:42 PM
I thought it was great episode, Nice to see TigerClaw coming to his sensing and realizing, What Shredder has done was really bad, And siding with the Turtles in the end, and calling for a truce.

Its said this was his last appearance, Such a great character, Hopefully we'll see other versions of TigerClaw in future shows, Perhaps the new series in 2018? We can only hope.

Cyndaquilfan123
04-09-2017, 02:24 PM
I really enjoyed this episode. Loved the Ghostbusters stuff too.

TigerClaw
04-09-2017, 02:27 PM
I replied to Eric Bauza and he responded back to me.
https://twitter.com/bauzilla/status/851150671973830656

I hope some lucky up and coming voice artist gets a chance to voice TC in another series!!

I hope we see TigerClaw make another appearance in the 2018 series, Since he's the breakout character of this generation of TMNT.

Vegita-San
04-09-2017, 02:49 PM
honestly, the stuff this silly show chooses to remember...

they brought back the evil chinese dead guy no one remembers?
instead of someone like the rat king?

And Shredders motivations..ugh. first he wants to rule, then he obeys, then he turns and goes back to hell? it's like they forgot he was part of the plot midway through. his sudden turn around made no real sense at all.


oy. i hope the next show is more well run.

Vicky82
04-09-2017, 02:52 PM
they brought back the evil chinese dead guy no one remembers?


A lot of people knew Ho Chan was returning, there was an Instagram post about it last year.

GoldMutant
04-09-2017, 02:53 PM
I hope we see TigerClaw make another appearance in the 2018 series, Since he's the breakout character of this generation of TMNT.

Old Hob is more of a breakout character than Tiger Claw; hell, Alopex as well since she's appeared in this series and debuted in IDW.

honestly, the stuff this silly show chooses to remember...

they brought back the evil chinese dead guy no one remembers?
instead of someone like the rat king?

They had Rat King return in Darkest Plight, which was at the end of season 4. James Wong was also doing voice recordings for this season, which specifically seems to be this episode.

Unless you mean you wanted Rat King to reappear again? Then I'd agree with you, but your writing makes it hard to decipher what you want at points.

IndigoErth
04-09-2017, 02:55 PM
That's a shame if that's it for Tiger Claw. I'd hoped we'd at least see a little of the direction that he, Fishface, and Baxter (Rahzar is gone again?) go from here.


Really wish the ghostly part of this was far longer. With the glowing ghost skeletons and all, that would be fun for an entire arc.

TigerClaw
04-09-2017, 03:10 PM
Old Hob is more of a breakout character than Tiger Claw; hell, Alopex as well since she's appeared in this series and debuted in IDW.



They had Rat King return in Darkest Plight, which was at the end of season 4. James Wong was also doing voice recordings for this season, which specifically seems to be this episode.

Unless you mean you wanted Rat King to reappear again? Then I'd agree with you, but your writing makes it hard to decipher what you want at points.
I meant breakout character from the nick animated series, I have a feeling this character will make some appearance at some point, maybe in the new series, or IDW comics? Who knows.

Isn't TigerClaw appearing in the IDW comics based on the Nick universe?

CyberCubed
04-09-2017, 03:39 PM
honestly, the stuff this silly show chooses to remember...

Still trolling?

they brought back the evil chinese dead guy no one remembers?
instead of someone like the rat king?

They just brought Rat King back last season, genius. In a Super Shredder episode, no less.

And Shredders motivations..ugh. first he wants to rule, then he obeys, then he turns and goes back to hell? it's like they forgot he was part of the plot midway through. his sudden turn around made no real sense at all.

Are you literally posting garbage on purpose now, or is a children's cartoon too hard for you to understand? Shredder was under control of Kavaxas, after he no longer was he was able to break free and send them both back to the netherworld. Shredder's "We don't belong here!" line obviously implies his spirit/mind/dead body/etc. doesn't feel like he has a place in the living world.

oy. i hope the next show is more well run.

Hopefully you never post in the episode threads for the next cartoon.

TigerClaw
04-09-2017, 04:05 PM
I remember several months ago, Those around here thinking that TigerClaw go against his master right at the end of Season 3, But it only took this episode from Season 5 for TigerClaw to be redeemed.

kelligrafie
04-09-2017, 04:38 PM
The very point of an arc, writers, is to show a story building up over time. If one episode feels too packed but the other three aren't quite as packed, your first impulse should be to disperse these elements into other episodes, or even add an episode if it gets this bad.

Mmm they don't really have 'time' though do they? It's the last season, they've got seven stories to fit over 20 episodes which equates to less than 3 episodes per story. And they have a definitive deadline for the season, with the next series coming out so it's not like the team can faff around with re-writes or any major pacing issues.

Plus one of the biggest problems I think with this show is sometimes they stretched out plots and certain character developments so much that we forgot about them or they just didn't have the same impact that they could've/should've done.

So in a way I'm glad that we're getting things wrapped up so quick.




Mikey and Splinter were AWESOME in this episode.

Aaronardo
04-09-2017, 05:28 PM
Mmm they don't really have 'time' though do they? It's the last season, they've got seven stories to fit over 20 episodes which equates to less than 3 episodes per story. And they have a definitive deadline for the season, with the next series coming out so it's not like the team can faff around with re-writes or any major pacing issues.

Plus one of the biggest problems I think with this show is sometimes they stretched out plots and certain character developments so much that we forgot about them or they just didn't have the same impact that they could've/should've done.

Still no excuse for the writers to back themselves in a corner like this. I'll use Leo as an example. His place in this arc was touched upon in the first episode nicely. The next two episodes, we didn't get any of it. We didn't get anything on him until one random scene in this episode, then nothing, and then again in one of the last scenes. They had three episodes to stretch this out and properly allow the story some time to develop, but they chose to do it in one, which is completely fine if we're only talking about the Leo arc. But we're not. We're talking about all the other sh*t they sandwiched into this one episode that could've easily been done without and just put in other episodes.

Rewatching this episode, I completely forgot Ho Chan, Leatherhead, and B&R were even in this episode because it's so f*cking packed with random undead and suddenly alive (??) but then dead Splinter, a Shredder that is a puppet of Kavaxas but suddenly isn't, a sudden telling of all the exact things Kavaxas needs to do to get free (and, well, other sudden tellings of things for that matter), Fishface's renouncing of the Foot (?), and an invasion of 999 happy haunts that doesn't really go anywhere or feel perilous at all among other things. That's not pressed for time, that's just really bad writing.

It doesn't matter how much 'time' they have. Good writing can save the pacing of a story like this. They could have led the characters into the events of this story better in previous episodes, particularly #3 (an episode that did NOT take my heart and will probably be goin' to jail), or Auman could have just not put so much sh*t into this episode.

GoldMutant
04-09-2017, 05:53 PM
Still no excuse for the writers to back themselves in a corner like this. I'll use Leo as an example. His place in this arc was touched upon in the first episode nicely. The next two episodes, we didn't get any of it. We didn't get anything on him until one random scene in this episode, then nothing, and then again in one of the last scenes. They had three episodes to stretch this out and properly allow the story some time to develop, but they chose to do it in one, which is completely fine if we're only talking about the Leo arc. But we're not. We're talking about all the other sh*t they sandwiched into this one episode that could've easily been done without and just put in other episodes.

Rewatching this episode, I completely forgot Ho Chan, Leatherhead, and B&R were even in this episode because it's so f*cking packed with random undead and suddenly alive (??) but then dead Splinter, a Shredder that is a puppet of Kavaxas but suddenly isn't, a sudden telling of all the exact things Kavaxas needs to do to get free (and, well, other sudden tellings of things for that matter), Fishface's renouncing of the Foot (?), and an invasion of 999 happy haunts that doesn't really go anywhere or feel perilous at all among other things. That's not pressed for time, that's just really bad writing.

It doesn't matter how much 'time' they have. Good writing can save the pacing of a story like this. They could have led the characters into the events of this story better in previous episodes, particularly #3 (an episode that did NOT take my heart and will probably be goin' to jail), or Auman could have just not put so much sh*t into this episode.

It's times like these that make me wish we had a trend for TMNT. I got it: #fireauman
__________________

All joking aside, this easily could've been a five episode arc. Maybe focus on the resurrection of Shredder and have be tough to defeat. (Although Leo struggling against him this episode is off putting) The end could literally have all the creatures arisen as Ho Chan and Tatsu almost kill the secondary team when Splinter shows up. Cue "to be continued" and then handle the Netherworld material. It would give much more breathing room, especially if we had 26 episodes this season instead of the 20.

However, that's not the case and it suffers greatly. :ohwell:

oldmanwinters
04-09-2017, 06:38 PM
Observations:

Zombie Super Shredder has worms? Nice callback to Mirage, perhaps?

Loved Xever's little exposition flashback. I like that fish.

Tigerclaw very perceptive about Zombie Super Shredder being more of a puppet than a true resurrection. Makes me wonder if the same was true of Rahzar since he sided with Hot Head in the final battle.

Rocksteady blew another 80s reference: "Let's make like tree and..."

I really like the popcorn popper feature of Donatello's ghostbusting proton packs. Seems like they at least owed an explanation how he learned to make supernatural weapons besides just getting a random reading of Kavaxas.

I don't quite understand why the Turtles view Casey as largely incompetent yet keep bringing him along for missions. Mikey at least threw him some love. Also, who would have thought "So Metal!" Casey would be crybaby about "dead things?"

Seems like there might have been a rush edit between when Karai jumps on Super Shredder and the next shot where he's falling down the pit.

Mikey pieces the amulet's three pieces together using his toes.

That "Kitty Jones" billboard has seen a lot of action during this series, but it's still standing!

Shredder seemed to have a brief moment of redemption when he jumps on Kavaxas and declares "We don't belong here!" before shoving them both back to the netherworld. Nice to see him regain a shred of dignity after becoming a Hot Head's zombie puppet.

Disappointed that there's no actual epilogue between Tigerclaw and Turtles, just summarized off-camera, especially if we never see him again.

Ghost Splinter becomes temporarily tangible? Wha???

I didn't think the sunset was THAT amazing, but it makes sense in context and mirrors the conclusion to season 4.

Vegita-San
04-09-2017, 06:46 PM
Rewatching this episode, I completely forgot Ho Chan, Leatherhead, and B&R were even in this episode because it's so f*cking packed with random undead and suddenly alive (??) but then dead Splinter, a Shredder that is a puppet of Kavaxas but suddenly isn't, a sudden telling of all the exact things Kavaxas needs to do to get free (and, well, other sudden tellings of things for that matter), Fishface's renouncing of the Foot (?), and an invasion of 999 happy haunts that doesn't really go anywhere or feel perilous at all among other things. That's not pressed for time, that's just really bad writing.


yep.

but, god forbid i point stuff like this out ;o).

it just feels like an excuse to have creepy things in the show.

The Fish Face thing was as much a COMPLETE 180 as Shredder suddenly shoving Hot head in the hole. I half expected donnie to say 'here fishface, have some anti mutagen' just to end that characters plot line for good ;o)

Vegita-San
04-09-2017, 06:48 PM
I remember several months ago, Those around here thinking that TigerClaw go against his master right at the end of Season 3, But it only took this episode from Season 5 for TigerClaw to be redeemed.

he wasn't really redeemed. he got pushed out and had second thoughts on ending the world. if he was second in command he probably still would have went along with the plan. hence, probably, temporary truce.

with shows like this, he'll probably go right back to being a bad guy next episode.

TigerClaw
04-09-2017, 07:11 PM
he wasn't really redeemed. he got pushed out and had second thoughts on ending the world. if he was second in command he probably still would have went along with the plan. hence, probably, temporary truce.

with shows like this, he'll probably go right back to being a bad guy next episode.
I wonder if he's still in control of the Foot Clan during the truce.

I can see near the end of the season, Karai getting back control of the Foot Clan and turning them good.

FredWolfLeonardo
04-09-2017, 07:21 PM
My favourite thing about the episode Is the ending with Karai hugging Splinter. It felt like a proper send off to his character while in Requiem it felt somewhat less conclusive. If Splinter doesn't appear after this (excluding the flashback episode) I would be fully satisfied.

CyberCubed
04-09-2017, 07:23 PM
Rewatching this episode, I completely forgot Ho Chan, Leatherhead, and B&R were even in this episode because it's so f*cking packed with random undead and suddenly alive (??) but then dead Splinter, a Shredder that is a puppet of Kavaxas but suddenly isn't, a sudden telling of all the exact things Kavaxas needs to do to get free (and, well, other sudden tellings of things for that matter), Fishface's renouncing of the Foot (?), and an invasion of 999 happy haunts that doesn't really go anywhere or feel perilous at all among other things. That's not pressed for time, that's just really bad writing.
.

Why on earth would this bother you? Splinter never came back to life, his spirit was there and he said goodbye to his family at the end. How could this not have been made more clear?

And you're seriously saying Leatherhead being there, Ho-chan, or the stuff with Fishface is "rushed" when they were all just there to be minor supporting characters in the first place? How the hell is this different than when the 4kids series did the same thing shoving Leatherhead in a whole bunch of Shredder episodes where he barely did anything but a small fight scene? I don't even understand why the hell you keep saying, "bad writing?" This doesn't have to be expanded on for 20 minutes or episodes, they gave us a huge compact story and the characters got their resolutions.

Aaronardo
04-09-2017, 07:47 PM
Why on earth would this bother you? Splinter never came back to life, his spirit was there and he said goodbye to his family at the end. How could this not have been made more clear?

And you're seriously saying Leatherhead being there, Ho-chan, or the stuff with Fishface is "rushed" when they were all just there to be minor supporting characters in the first place? How the hell is this different than when the 4kids series did the same thing shoving Leatherhead in a whole bunch of Shredder episodes where he barely did anything but a small fight scene? I don't even understand why the hell you keep saying, "bad writing?" This doesn't have to be expanded on for 20 minutes or episodes, they gave us a huge compact story and the characters got their resolutions.

You answered your own question. None of it matters. There's no real reason for any of it. Bare bones, this episode is a story about Kavaxas winning control and unleashing his wrath and the Turtles stopping him. We also have to include the thing with Zombie Shredder because that's been built up over the course of the arc. But then, suddenly, we bring Splinter in for no reason (keep in mind, Kavaxas is releasing the underworld, and where Splinter went to at the end of the episode definitely was not the underworld, so why he was even there in the first place is beyond me) and somehow that's important, because it takes up a couple scenes. Then, we have the thing with Fishface and his rather uneventful complete 180 turn, AND we get a buttload of disconnected exposition about the minions from him that could've easily been inserted in any other episode.

Then there's that whole mess with Shredder. He served no real purpose in this story at all. He could've not been brought back at all and the story really wouldn't be different in any way. Someone must've realized this, so they just lazily inserted all the little specific things Kavaxas needed to do to unleash his power (instead of, I don't know, building it up over the last three episodes), with resurrecting an evil warrior applying to Shredder. I can't be the only one who thought this came clean out of nowhere and just came off as pure lazy.

Things like Leatherhead and Karai being randomly inserted into the story clean out of nowhere are minor complaints, but they take up time which creates problems for the main part of the story. Then, of course, there's the whole thing with Leo and Splinter, which also comes off as rather forced for reasons I've already gone over in previous posts.

As for the 2k3 series, the difference between that and this is that was simply bringing in Leatherhead for seemingly no reason, which is fine seeing as how it didn't impact the final product. Every single thing I have just mentioned (obviously, not including randomly bringing Leatherhead in, although it was still lazily handled) negatively impacts this episode in some significant manner.

It's times like these that make me wish we had a trend for TMNT. I got it: #fireauman

That made me laugh harder than it probably should have. :lol: It is times like these, though, I have to ask why it was so easy for them to fire Ventimilia and Sternin after one season, but Auman can stick around for four. Nothing against the guy personally, but it is something I wonder from time to time.

CyberCubed
04-09-2017, 07:57 PM
You answered your own question. None of it matters. There's no real reason for any of it. Bare bones, this episode is a story about Kavaxas winning control and unleashing his wrath and the Turtles stopping him.

What do you think supporting characters are for? I'd rather see Leatherhead than not see him. I'd rather see them give an explanation why Fishface left before the final battle than nothing at all. I liked all the fight scenes and chaos going on. I don't know why the hell you keep saying, "bare bones?" As you said, the general plot had to deal with them raising Shredder and Kavaxas trying to break out of Tiger Claw's control.

But then, suddenly, we bring Splinter in for no reason (keep in mind, Kavaxas is releasing the underworld, and where Splinter went to at the end of the episode definitely was not the underworld, so why he was even there in the first place is beyond me) and somehow that's important, because it takes up a couple scenes.

WTF, you're asking why Splinter was even there? Bringing Splinter back was one of the more interesting parts of the episode, tied everything together with both Shredder's fate and him saying goodbye properly to his family, and also being able to help out a bit as a spirit during his fight with Ho-chan. Why the hell wouldn't you want him to be there?

Then, we have the thing with Fishface and his rather uneventful complete 180 turn, AND we get a buttload of disconnected exposition about the minions from him that could've easily been inserted in any other episode.

I don't see any problem with this at all. Fishface always cared more about regular urban crime than any otherworldly stuff.

Then there's that whole mess with Shredder. He served no real purpose in this story at all. He could've not been brought back at all and the story really wouldn't be different in any way. Someone must've realized this, so they just lazily inserted all the little specific things Kavaxas needed to do to unleash his power (instead of, I don't know, building it up over the last three episodes), with resurrecting an evil warrior applying to Shredder. I can't be the only one who thought this came clean out of nowhere and just came off as pure lazy.

The whole point was to revive Shredder. Of course zombie Shredder didn't do all that much, he wasn't suppose to. The build up was all about stopping him and Kavaxas, and Shredder had some last few moments of glory and then realized he didn't belong in the living world and took the dragon with him back to the netherworld. Sometimes I have no idea what you're actually expecting, some lengthy discussion of Kavaxas power or a Zombie Shredder running around Manhattan for 20 episodes?

As for the 2k3 series, the difference between that and this is that was simply bringing in Leatherhead for seemingly no reason, which is fine seeing as how it didn't impact the final product. Every single thing I have just mentioned (obviously, not including randomly bringing Leatherhead in, although it was still lazily handled) negatively impacts this episode in some significant manner.

Yes they did, Leatherhead was constantly brought in during the 4kids episodes for nothing but "extra muscle" for fights, the same exact thing the Nick cartoon did here. Go watch the Season 3 finale of 4kids, and tell me Leatherhead's role isn't exactly the same.

MCLeo28
04-09-2017, 07:58 PM
There were too many events crammed into one episode that it simply didn't do this episode any justice at all which became more evident when the Netherworld Invasion paled in comparison to previous invasions we've witnessed in the past, Shredder was egregiously underplayed, the Shredder cult were ill-involved during this entire conflict, and this episode overall only delivered lackluster fighting scenes at best.

Frankly, I was elated to watch this episode in the morning only to have been disillusioned with the pacing of this episode and how everything was seemingly slapped together at the last minute. For an episode of this scale, more was to be expected and they simply failed to deliver. Kavaxus is even stronger than Super Shredder yet I felt this entire Invasion paled in comparison to Season 1's.

This episode was decent and while this will be a polarizing opinion, I honestly found this to be one of the worst episodes of this entire series. I will say that there were absolutely no issues with the plot, only the delivery and execution of everything that ensued. Had this been a 1 hour finale, then this likely would've been one of the best in the series.

CyberCubed
04-09-2017, 08:02 PM
This episode was decent and while this will be a polarizing opinion, I honestly found this to be one of the worst episodes of this entire series.

LOL, the hyperbole.

MCLeo28
04-09-2017, 08:06 PM
LOL, the hyperbole.

I'd appreciate if you don't go out of your way of ridiculing others simply because their opinion does not glorify Nick's series.

I found it to be one of the worst, but if you enjoyed it, then hats off to you.

CyberCubed
04-09-2017, 08:10 PM
I found it to be one of the worst, but if you enjoyed it, then hats off to you.

If you found it to be one of the worst, than that's still rather bizarre.

MCLeo28
04-09-2017, 08:12 PM
If you found it to be one of the worst, than that's still rather bizarre.

I agree that it's bizarre, since the crew continues to get better and better as the series continues, but this was an anomaly for me.

CyberCubed
04-09-2017, 08:14 PM
I agree that it's bizarre, since the crew continues to get better and better as the series continues, but this was an anomaly for me.

Your loss then. Claiming the invasion isn't as big as the Kraang ones as a negative when it wasn't supposed to be, nor was that the focus of the episode, is indeed bizarre.

MCLeo28
04-09-2017, 08:15 PM
Your loss then. Claiming the invasion isn't as big as the Kraang ones as a negative when it wasn't supposed to be, nor was that the focus of the episode, is indeed bizarre.

It may not have been their focus, it significantly detracted from the experience because of it. It's not the only reason, but it is one of the reasons why I could not enjoy this episode as much as the rest.

GoldMutant
04-09-2017, 08:16 PM
If you found it to be one of the worst, than that's still rather bizarre.

I find it bizarre how you keep commenting in a futile attempt to argue. :roll:

MC, what didn't you like about the episode; why do you consider it one of the worst? Curious as there hasn't been much negativity surrounding the episode outside its sporadic pacing.

CyberCubed
04-09-2017, 08:17 PM
It may not have been their focus, it significantly detracted from the experience because of it. It's not the only reason, but it is one of the reasons why I could not enjoy this episode as much as the rest.

So a short invasion of ghosts popping up and the city splitting apart somehow distracted you from the rest of the episode? What did you think Kavaxas was going to do? If you think we needed another 2-3 episodes showing the Turtles fight off ghosts, then no, it wasn't necessary.

MCLeo28
04-09-2017, 08:30 PM
So a short invasion of ghosts popping up and the city splitting apart somehow distracted you from the rest of the episode? What did you think Kavaxas was going to do? If you think we needed another 2-3 episodes showing the Turtles fight off ghosts, then no, it wasn't necessary.

Since the premise of Kavaxus's plan was to use the Netherworld to conquer the entire world, then yes, a devoid invasion is gratuitous. I'm not expecting it to be a few episodes, but what I am expecting to see is a larger-scale invasion that cannot be resolved as easily as it was. Having special weaponry was enough to believe that the invasion was really no threat to the entire world's well-being which felt wrong...

CyberCubed
04-09-2017, 08:33 PM
Since the premise of Kavaxus's plan was to use the Netherworld to conquer the entire world, then yes, a devoid invasion is gratuitous. I'm not expecting it to be a few episodes, but what I am expecting to see is a larger-scale invasion that cannot be resolved as easily as it was.

The invasion wasn't the point of the episode. In the Kraang episode finale's, the invasion WAS the main point of the episodes. I'm surprised you don't see the difference. The otherworldly invasion in this ep was just to show the stakes if the Turtles didn't stop Kavaxas here and now.

Vegita-San
04-09-2017, 08:40 PM
[QUOTE=MCLeo28;1675291]I'd appreciate if you don't go out of your way of ridiculing others simply because their opinion does not glorify Nick's series.
QUOTE]


hey,

everyone needs a hobby to keep them up in the morning ;o)...

hang on, i think someone just called me a troll again, ahh, the world is turning properly ;o)

Aaronardo
04-09-2017, 08:51 PM
So a short invasion of ghosts popping up and the city splitting apart somehow distracted you from the rest of the episode? What did you think Kavaxas was going to do? If you think we needed another 2-3 episodes showing the Turtles fight off ghosts, then no, it wasn't necessary.

Bud. The invasion was the climax of the episode. The invasion was the titular "End Times." If one doesn't like how the invasion was handled, then it's entirely natural if they happened to not like the episode as much as other episodes.

I understand what it's like to want to defend something you feel strongly about, but you don't need to jump on anyone with a differing opinion with no real argument outside of "it's bizzare that you feel that way."

As for your reply to my post, you completely missed the point of every single thing I said. I never said the episode was "bare bones," that would be hypocritical as hell and shoot my argument right in the foot. I was saying what the plot at its simplest state is supposed to be to emphasize how f*cking crowded this episode is.

I'd much rather see an explanation on Shredder's minions as well, and I was never complaining that it was there to begin with. My problem with it, which I felt I made very clear in my post, is how it was executed, and for what it's worth could've been in a different, less crowded episode. But if your idea of writing secondary characters in is "I'd much rather see them there than not there," I'd hate to see the end result. I'm just saying, you don't see Mr. Poopybutthole in every single episode of Rick & Morty, and there's a damn good reason for that.

My problem with Splinter is -- HE'S DEAD. This show finally managed to kill Splinter and have him stay dead. Having him just be able to show up at the end of an episode four episodes after his death for everyone to see him (not just Leo, who, for all we know, could just be hallucinating) cheapens his death just a little. And am I seriously the only one who thinks it's ridiculous that, despite Kavaxas unleashing the UNDERWORLD, Splinter shows up despite his clear ascension into the skies at the end of the episode? That's simply inconsistent.

The sentence "the purpose was to revive Shredder, of course he doesn't do anything" is so hypocritical I almost want to bother with it. All I'll say is we spent four episodes trying to revive the motherf*cking main villain of the show and he didn't do anything. I'm sorry, but that's simple bullsh*t.

Vegita-San
04-09-2017, 08:56 PM
fits his appearance with the rest of the series.


he hardly got remembered at all in the krang years.

the turtles barely faced him enough to even be considered real enemies...

then all of a sudden krang get defeated, focus goes a little more on shredder, and he still doesn't really do all that much.

he always seems like an after thought.

wpugh2424
04-09-2017, 09:36 PM
So much bickering
This episode should have been more spread out and more in depth , but I appreciate it for what it was. I found it fun and entertaining with many throw backs that were enjoyed.

CyberCubed
04-09-2017, 09:39 PM
Bud. The invasion was the climax of the episode. The invasion was the titular "End Times." If one doesn't like how the invasion was handled, then it's entirely natural if they happened to not like the episode as much as other episodes.

I only replied to the guy because he thought the invasion was supposed to be a big deal on the level of the Kraang invasions in previous seasons, but given the episode we know it wasn't and was never planned to be. As I said, it was done to raise the stakes by letting us know what would happen if Kavaxas was to remain free outside of control of anyone and do what he wanted. The little scenes we got of the Turtles fighting off ghosts was fun and exciting, and it's all I wanted to see.

I'd much rather see an explanation on Shredder's minions as well, and I was never complaining that it was there to begin with. My problem with it, which I felt I made very clear in my post, is how it was executed, and for what it's worth could've been in a different, less crowded episode. But if your idea of writing secondary characters in is "I'd much rather see them there than not there," I'd hate to see the end result.

They literally gave all of Shredder's henchmen things to do in these set of episodes. Fishface did have an early leave, but at least it was explained. I just don't see it as crowded at all, the chaos was only surrounding two characters (Kavaxas and Shredder of course), while everyone was caught in the misfire so to speak.

My problem with Splinter is -- HE'S DEAD. This show finally managed to kill Splinter and have him stay dead. Having him just be able to show up at the end of an episode four episodes after his death for everyone to see him (not just Leo, who, for all we know, could just be hallucinating) cheapens his death just a little. And am I seriously the only one who thinks it's ridiculous that, despite Kavaxas unleashing the UNDERWORLD, Splinter shows up despite his clear ascension into the skies at the end of the episode? That's simply inconsistent.

Splinter was dead and remained dead. There's nothing wrong with Splinter appearing soon after death in a story about ghosts/demons to give a proper farewell to his family and to help out one last time before departing to the afterlife. I'm going to assume ghost Splinter won't appear again for the rest of Season 5, so this was a nice farewell to his character, and the final goodbye to his daughter Miwa and the Turtles was well done.

Likewise Splinter departed into heaven, completely separate from all the ghouls being sent back down below to Hell or the netherworld. They made that distinction quite clear, that's why Splinter didn't disappear when all the other ghosts did...but afterward. So I don't see why you keep bringing that up.

The sentence "the purpose was to revive Shredder, of course he doesn't do anything" is so hypocritical I almost want to bother with it. All I'll say is we spent four episodes trying to revive the motherf*cking main villain of the show and he didn't do anything. I'm sorry, but that's simple bullsh*t.

Yes it does. Think of Shredder as a failed experiment where they tried to bring him back and it didn't work. I much prefer they did it like this, then say, zombie Shredder roaming around all season and not defeated for another 15 episodes.

MCLeo28
04-09-2017, 09:42 PM
The invasion wasn't the point of the episode. In the Kraang episode finale's, the invasion WAS the main point of the episodes. I'm surprised you don't see the difference. The otherworldly invasion in this ep was just to show the stakes if the Turtles didn't stop Kavaxas here and now.

The invasion was the focal point of Kavaxus's strategy. From killing Tatsu to Shredder's revival which was emphasized throughout the entire arc was used as a means to bring the invasion to fruition. Yes, it was the turning point of the entire arc since it was the consequence of Kavaxus's rebellion and was something that the writers had failed to deliver. They foreshadowed Kavaxus's betrayal fairly early yet failed to give the viewers a compelling reason as to how this would be dangerous since the only thing going for him (the invasion) did not deliver.

So, the invasion is to illustrate the consequences/stakes if the Turtles did not stop Kavaxus ... Er, okay. The same can be argued for the Kraang and the Triceratons, so what you claimed is immaterial and rather contradictory to what you're trying to prove.

CyberCubed
04-09-2017, 09:45 PM
The invasion was the focal point of Kavaxus's strategy. From killing Tatsu to Shredder's revival which was emphasized throughout the entire arc was used as a means to bring the invasion to fruition. Yes, it was the turning point of the entire arc since it was the consequence of Kavaxus's rebellion and was something that the writers had failed to deliver. They foreshadowed Kavaxus's betrayal fairly early yet failed to give the viewers a compelling reason as to how this would be dangerous since the only thing going for him (the invasion) did not deliver.

So, the invasion is to illustrate the consequences/stakes if the Turtles did not stop Kavaxus ... Er, okay. The same can be argued for the Kraang and the Triceratons, so what you claimed is immaterial and rather contradictory to what you're trying to prove.

The invasion itself was in no way the main focus of the episode. Was it Kavaxas endgame? Obviously yes, but the writers didn't focus on it because the episode was about the characters themselves.

FredWolfLeonardo
04-09-2017, 09:53 PM
In some weird ways, Kavaxas gave me an OT Lord Dregg vibe, even more than Nick's version of Lord Dregg.

Ninja Tiptup
04-10-2017, 06:10 AM
I agree with some sentiments here. This final showdown really ought to have been paced better. While Donatello got some spotlight and a lesson in the "Heart of Evil" they could have dealt with that in less than an episode and gave the demon's end game more space to breathe.

I really feel they could have at one point had Kavaxas mention the requirements for his reign before this episode. If not outright saying what they are then at least eluding to them.

I suppose you could argue they were too caught off guard when they encountered Kavaxas the first time but they seemed to do alright fighting the next two times, they lost the fights but not as badly as the first time.

The explanation for the mutant hobos works for me. I wondered if Super Shredder ooze could cause some wacked out mutations for other people/creatures.

I'm amused by them reusing the China Town ghost for this and I guess extending Tatsu's use wasn't a bad call but I also agree there were plenty of dead foes they could have included here. The whole spirits assaulting the city thing was rather short-lived.

I suppose I like that Shredder dragged Kavaxas back into the underworld. It doesn't make up for much of the terrible things he did but it's something.

That whole "look toward the light" thing felt needless.

This whole thing felt like a stupid reason to temporarily revive Shredder and Bradford and it's the last we'll see of Xever and Tiger Claw on top of that? What the shell? That's no way to send these characters off with a hand wave and a sudden truce. I do prefer they live on instead of die at the hands of the turtles but if they're going to live on and reform, I'd like to see their character arcs lead to them have an epiphany that doesn't feel so sudden and convenient. If they were going to put in no effort in giving these guys a worthwhile send-off then actually killing them off in Owari would have been better. In this case Xever is like "this is getting too wack for me, I'm out" and Tiger Claw just realizes there's no point in fighting anymore because his plan to resurrect his master doesn't pan out? It seems sloppy if nothing else.

Nice to have Splinter show up briefly. That gave his death a bit more closure.

Definitely some loose ends remaining from this arc such a TON of mutant hobos with some Shredder in them and I doubt they'll even be mentioned again.

TigerClaw
04-10-2017, 09:13 AM
I agree with some sentiments here. This final showdown really ought to have been paced better. While Donatello got some spotlight and a lesson in the "Heart of Evil" they could have dealt with that in less than an episode and gave the demon's end game more space to breathe.

I really feel they could have at one point had Kavaxas mention the requirements for his reign before this episode. If not outright saying what they are then at least eluding to them.

I suppose you could argue they were too caught off guard when they encountered Kavaxas the first time but they seemed to do alright fighting the next two times, they lost the fights but not as badly as the first time.

The explanation for the mutant hobos works for me. I wondered if Super Shredder ooze could cause some wacked out mutations for other people/creatures.

I'm amused by them reusing the China Town ghost for this and I guess extending Tatsu's use wasn't a bad call but I also agree there were plenty of dead foes they could have included here. The whole spirits assaulting the city thing was rather short-lived.

I suppose I like that Shredder dragged Kavaxas back into the underworld. It doesn't make up for much of the terrible things he did but it's something.

That whole "look toward the light" thing felt needless.

This whole thing felt like a stupid reason to temporarily revive Shredder and Bradford and it's the last we'll see of Xever and Tiger Claw on top of that? What the shell? That's no way to send these characters off with a hand wave and a sudden truce. I do prefer they live on instead of die at the hands of the turtles but if they're going to live on and reform, I'd like to see their character arcs lead to them have an epiphany that doesn't feel so sudden and convenient. If they were going to put in no effort in giving these guys a worthwhile send-off then actually killing them off in Owari would have been better. In this case Xever is like "this is getting too wack for me, I'm out" and Tiger Claw just realizes there's no point in fighting anymore because his plan to resurrect his master doesn't pan out? It seems sloppy if nothing else.

Nice to have Splinter show up briefly. That gave his death a bit more closure.

Definitely some loose ends remaining from this arc such a TON of mutant hobos with some Shredder in them and I doubt they'll even be mentioned again.
Its one of my grievances about this show, things like, Whatever happen to Mutagen Man, Newtralizer, or Pigeon Pete?

I hope all will be addressed in Season 5.

Vegita-San
04-10-2017, 09:16 AM
or, 'they've got anti mutagen..why don't they clean up some of the sadder mutants like fish face?'

victory_angel
04-10-2017, 10:14 AM
I agree with some sentiments here. This final showdown really ought to have been paced better. While Donatello got some spotlight and a lesson in the "Heart of Evil" they could have dealt with that in less than an episode and gave the demon's end game more space to breathe.

I really feel they could have at one point had Kavaxas mention the requirements for his reign before this episode. If not outright saying what they are then at least eluding to them.

I suppose you could argue they were too caught off guard when they encountered Kavaxas the first time but they seemed to do alright fighting the next two times, they lost the fights but not as badly as the first time.

The explanation for the mutant hobos works for me. I wondered if Super Shredder ooze could cause some wacked out mutations for other people/creatures.

I'm amused by them reusing the China Town ghost for this and I guess extending Tatsu's use wasn't a bad call but I also agree there were plenty of dead foes they could have included here. The whole spirits assaulting the city thing was rather short-lived.

I suppose I like that Shredder dragged Kavaxas back into the underworld. It doesn't make up for much of the terrible things he did but it's something.

That whole "look toward the light" thing felt needless.

This whole thing felt like a stupid reason to temporarily revive Shredder and Bradford and it's the last we'll see of Xever and Tiger Claw on top of that? What the shell? That's no way to send these characters off with a hand wave and a sudden truce. I do prefer they live on instead of die at the hands of the turtles but if they're going to live on and reform, I'd like to see their character arcs lead to them have an epiphany that doesn't feel so sudden and convenient. If they were going to put in no effort in giving these guys a worthwhile send-off then actually killing them off in Owari would have been better. In this case Xever is like "this is getting too wack for me, I'm out" and Tiger Claw just realizes there's no point in fighting anymore because his plan to resurrect his master doesn't pan out? It seems sloppy if nothing else.

Nice to have Splinter show up briefly. That gave his death a bit more closure.

Definitely some loose ends remaining from this arc such a TON of mutant hobos with some Shredder in them and I doubt they'll even be mentioned again.

They were hinting at Kavaxas betraying Tigerclaw with the way he would sarcastically or resentfully call him Master. And also in heart of evil TC did point out that Kavaxas was becoming unusually invested in the Shredders reserection. And Kavaxas just throws him a dirty look.

PApagreg
04-10-2017, 11:51 AM
Yeahh I kinda dislike this episode, while I did think Splinter's temporary reunion with his family was heartwarming(if a little bit corny) everything else felt like a fart. We had all this buildup to a demon invasion and Kavaxas betraying Tiger Claw but just like Bebop, Rocksteady and a lesser extent Baxter he gets b$tched by Shredder. Whats worse is the treatment with Tiger Claw, not only does he just commits a truce off screen(so after summoning a demon I guess he just quits or something) but Alopex the character who is important to Tiger Claw's past doesn't even show up in this episode.

Vicky82
04-10-2017, 12:02 PM
Yeahh I kinda dislike this episode, while I did think Splinter's temporary reunion with his family was heartwarming(if a little bit corny) everything else felt like a fart. We had all this buildup to a demon invasion and Kavaxas betraying Tiger Claw but just like Bebop, Rocksteady and a lesser extent Baxter he gets b$tched by Shredder. Whats worse is the treatment with Tiger Claw, not only does he just commits a truce off screen(so after summoning a demon I guess he just quits or something) but Alopex the character who is important to Tiger Claw's past doesn't even show up in this episode.

Baxter wasn't in this episode.

Where did you get the idea that Alopex was going to be in this episode. There wasn't any indication that she was going to appear.

or, 'they've got anti mutagen..why don't they clean up some of the sadder mutants like fish face?'

Because Fishface is a villain, he wants to change back to human, changing him back will give him satisfaction, staying as Fishface is his punishment.

It was different with Baxter because he wanted to stay as a fly, so changing him back to human is like punishment for him.

PApagreg
04-10-2017, 12:30 PM
Baxter wasn't in this episode.

Where did you get the idea that Alopex was going to be in this episode. There wasn't any indication that she was going to appear.


I ment that Baxter had potential to become independent but ultimately became Shredder's b$itch same with Bebop and Rocksteady


Also with this being Tiger Claw's final episode I was hoping Alopex would at least get a cameo or mention, hell they brought back Ho Chan but apparently Alopex is chopped liver. Though looking back maybe I should've said that Alopex should've been at the beginning of this arc.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 12:33 PM
Yeahh I kinda dislike this episode, while I did think Splinter's temporary reunion with his family was heartwarming(if a little bit corny) everything else felt like a fart. We had all this buildup to a demon invasion and Kavaxas betraying Tiger Claw but just like Bebop, Rocksteady and a lesser extent Baxter he gets b$tched by Shredder. Whats worse is the treatment with Tiger Claw, not only does he just commits a truce off screen(so after summoning a demon I guess he just quits or something) but Alopex the character who is important to Tiger Claw's past doesn't even show up in this episode.

They did an excellent build up to the invasion, and all the henchmen were caught in the crossfire.

As for Alopex her VA said she was going to be in a Season 5 episode, so we'll wait and see.

Vegita-San
04-10-2017, 12:40 PM
Baxter wasn't in this episode.

Where did you get the idea that Alopex was going to be in this episode. There wasn't any indication that she was going to appear.



Because Fishface is a villain, he wants to change back to human, changing him back will give him satisfaction, staying as Fishface is his punishment.

It was different with Baxter because he wanted to stay as a fly, so changing him back to human is like punishment for him.

which of course was never really brought up before that..and probably wouldn't get brought up again if he returns in season 5.

more weird writing.

I also wonder how fish face, let alone tiger claw knew the story of the cult mutants at all... as far as we know, none of them talk :).

oy.

Vicky82
04-10-2017, 12:43 PM
I ment that Baxter had potential to become independent but ultimately became Shredder's b$itch same with Bebop and Rocksteady


Also with this being Tiger Claw's final episode I was hoping Alopex would at least get a cameo or mention, hell they brought back Ho Chan but apparently Alopex is chopped liver. Though looking back maybe I should've said that Alopex should've been at the beginning of this arc.

Bebop and Rocksteady were forced to join the Foot Clan. As they disappeared during the final battle we could still see them again in other episodes and will be independent because the Foot Clan is gone

Alopex probably can still appear, she doesn't have to appear in the same episode as Tiger Claw, they arn't joined at the hip.

which of course was never really brought up before that..and probably wouldn't get brought up again if he returns in season 5.

more weird writing.

I also wonder how fish face, let alone tiger claw knew the story of the cult mutants at all... as far as we know, none of them talk :).

oy.

It wasn't weird, it was a twist to the story, that's why we never heard about Baxter wanting to stay as a fly.

The cult mutants probably just took Tiger Claw to where mutagen spillage was and Tiger Claw guessed what happened.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 02:45 PM
It wasn't weird, it was a twist to the story, that's why we never heard about Baxter wanting to stay as a fly.

The cult mutants probably just took Tiger Claw to where mutagen spillage was and Tiger Claw guessed what happened.

I wouldn't bother replying to Vegita-san in regards to the Nick show. As you've seen by his posts he makes up stuff that never happened in the show and then believes his own BS. This is the same guy who keeps saying characters are forgotten or that Shredder was "barely the villain" of the series, whatever the hell that means.

Vegita-San
04-10-2017, 03:05 PM
It wasn't weird, it was a twist to the story, that's why we never heard about Baxter wanting to stay as a fly.

The cult mutants probably just took Tiger Claw to where mutagen spillage was and Tiger Claw guessed what happened.

From my point of view, it's either bad writing, or just plain bad show running.

If you want people to care about these characters, you have to set it up before hand.

Even though baxter was a true jack in the box in the 4Kids series, I truly felt sorry for him at a certain point, because he no longer deserved all the harsh treatment befell upon him and it was just gratuitous violence..

I felt sorry for Fred Wolf Baxter, because he was never really evil or ambitious to start off with and just fell off in the wrong crowd.

this baxter is just an idiot with no character development.

Vicky82
04-10-2017, 03:13 PM
From my point of view, it's either bad writing, or just plain bad show running.

If you want people to care about these characters, you have to set it up before hand.

Even though baxter was a true jack in the box in the 4Kids series, I truly felt sorry for him at a certain point, because he no longer deserved all the harsh treatment befell upon him and it was just gratuitous violence..

I felt sorry for Fred Wolf Baxter, because he was never really evil or ambitious to start off with and just fell off in the wrong crowd.

this baxter is just an idiot with no character development.

Ok if you think plot twists is bad writing then you shouldn't watch the show at all or any show for that matter and your wrong about Baxter having no Character development, he had plenty.

I wouldn't bother replying to Vegita-san in regards to the Nick show. As you've seen by his posts he makes up stuff that never happened in the show and then believes his own BS. This is the same guy who keeps saying characters are forgotten or that Shredder was "barely the villain" of the series, whatever the hell that means.

Yeah I know he/she is an idiot but sometimes I like to reply to their stupid comments.

Think i'll keep him/her on ignore for the time being, it's a shame they can still see my posts though.

Vegita-San
04-10-2017, 03:18 PM
lol...

so, someone disagreeing with someone else is now cause for name calling i see ;o)...

funny, I now feel like that's a great idea. old ignore button it goes ;o)...

smh

sometimes i wonder why i bother hanging around this place anymore ;o)

GoldMutant
04-10-2017, 04:17 PM
Ok if you think plot twists is bad writing then you shouldn't watch the show at all or any show for that matter and you're wrong about Baxter having no Character development, he had plenty.

To quote Cube: "LOL, what?" He's not developed at all. To reiterate what I've said before, read this: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1673180&postcount=13 (quoting would enlarge the discussion by a bit much otherwise)

Vegita-San
04-10-2017, 04:19 PM
he's been seen, what, barely ten times in the entire series? and a few of those he didn't even talk at all!

FredWolfLeonardo
04-10-2017, 04:25 PM
he's been seen, what, barely ten times in the entire series? and a few of those he didn't even talk at all!

Even though I am a big fan of the Nick series, I will admit that in my opinion, the biggest flaw of the show is certain characters being drowned out due to the background noise of the references, new characters making characters like Baxter less impactful. In the OT on the other hand, everytime he appeared, Baxter completely stole the show but thats because the show was very simple and didn't have many side characters, so the one's that did appear left quite a mark when they appeared. Guess you can't have your cake and eat it too. If your show has many references, new characters and less of an original identity, you are bound to get a lower impact from some of the characters.

Vegita-San
04-10-2017, 04:31 PM
I just feel like the FW show and the 4Kids show had not only better writers that where ALLOWED to run things the way they wanted (for the most part, until playmates stepped in)...but also just knew what they wanted to do more. which is tell fun stories.


with this series, it just seems so over the place that it's hard to have any impact at all.

Hell, they destroyed the entire earth in season 3 and then un did it the next episode, so it left no impact at all! i mean, that' just bad shock value stuff!

you're also left wondering what else is going to happen, so you don't really have time to sit back and appreciate all the weirdness cause it comes at you rapid fire left and right and left and right, and either never gets resolved, or gets resolved quickly with no setup or exposition and boom. done.


That's why I like older shows that didn't NEED to be grand to be fun. they set EVERYTHING up in the first 30 minutes of the pilot and that was the status quo. it was up to the writers to make the status quo fun and memorable.

now a days, things have to be grand, shocking, dramatic, well planned out,inter connected, and it just makes things way more complicated than it needs to be and things suffer because of it

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 04:31 PM
he's been seen, what, barely ten times in the entire series? and a few of those he didn't even talk at all!

What the hell are you talking about? Baxter appeared as many times as he needed to and he worked mostly in the lab on Shredder's mutagen.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 04:35 PM
I just feel like the FW show and the 4Kids show had not only better writers that where ALLOWED to run things the way they wanted (for the most part, until playmates stepped in)...but also just knew what they wanted to do more. which is tell fun stories.

More idiocy. I love the original cartoon, but it had no real plot or continuing storylines to speak of besides minor stuff. They were literally just making random episodes as they went along till the show ended.

Hell, they destroyed the entire earth in season 3 and then un did it the next episode, so it left no impact at all! i mean, that' just bad shock value stuff!

Do you actually watch this show? Fugitoid said the Earth would still be destroyed unless they stopped the Triceratons, it didn't matter the Earth was restored. No impact? The whole goddamn space arc resulted from it.

That's why I like older shows that didn't NEED to be grand to be fun. they set EVERYTHING up in the first 30 minutes of the pilot and that was the status quo. it was up to the writers to make the status quo fun and memorable.

now a days, things have to be grand, shocking, dramatic, well planned out,inter connected, and it just makes things way more complicated than it needs to be and things suffer because of it

You're basically comparing episodic shows to shows with continuity. There's nothing wrong with either approach.

It seems to me you lack the mental comprehension to follow a show with continuing storylines where things aren't wrapped up nicely in 22 minutes. If that's the case it's obviously your problem you can't handle storylines that continue over a season.

Vicky82
04-10-2017, 04:39 PM
To quote Cube: "LOL, what?" He's not developed at all. To reiterate what I've said before, read this: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1673180&postcount=13 (quoting would enlarge the discussion by a bit much otherwise)

Sorry I should have been more clear, I was talking about when he was human.

I do find that Baxter changing back to human form a big unexpected moment at the time of viewing.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 04:39 PM
If Fishface/Tiger Claw don't appear again, it's pretty funny Baxter was the only one of Shredder's henchmen that got mutated. He basically got the best fate of them all.

Bebop/Rocksteady will probably stay mutants like always too.

Vicky82
04-10-2017, 04:50 PM
he's been seen, what, barely ten times in the entire series? and a few of those he didn't even talk at all!

He was in 24 episodes

Think His Name Is Baxter Stockman
Mousers Attack
The Alien Agenda
The Pulverizer
Baxter's Gambit
Mikey Gets Shellacne
Wormquake
The Lonely Mutation of Baxter Stockman
The Legend of the Kuro Kabuto
Vengeance is Mine
Return to New York
Serpent Hunt
The Pig and the Rhino
Casey Jones VS. the Underworld
The Noxious Avenger
Clash of the Mutanimals
Meet Mondo Gecko
The Deadly Venom
City at War
The Insecta Trifecta
The Super Shredder
Darkest Plight
Requiem
Owari

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 05:09 PM
Vegita-san proves time and time again he has no idea what even goes on in this series. I'm starting to believe he either doesn't actually watch the show at all, or when he does watch it he skims through the eps and barely pays attention to them.

JTH
04-10-2017, 06:06 PM
Man, sucks that there's no more Tiger Claw, so with that, that's basically the end of the Foot arc for the show right?

4 seasons of build and it just kinda went out with a whisper, a shame really it couldn't have been ended on a bigger scale or have just had the Season 4 finale had been the dagger to the Foot and ended it there.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 06:12 PM
Man, sucks that there's no more Tiger Claw, so with that, that's basically the end of the Foot arc for the show right?

4 seasons of build and it just kinda went out with a whisper, a shame really it couldn't have been ended on a bigger scale or have just had the Season 4 finale had been the dagger to the Foot and ended it there.

This was a pretty big finale. The human Foot Clan still exist under the control of Karai, so we'll likely see them in the rest of Season 5. Karai will appear in a few more eps.

Vegita-San
04-10-2017, 06:17 PM
uh oh.. a show insult and or criticism! Cue the childishness ;o)

TheJ-manTurtleMan
04-10-2017, 06:35 PM
Check out my review of "End Times"!
https://youtu.be/OIMfJC3JckE

FredWolfLeonardo
04-10-2017, 06:38 PM
uh oh.. a show insult and or criticism! Cue the childishness ;o)

I imagine you as TeamFourStar Vegeta who loves the OT and 4Kids but takes every opportunity to slyly cuss this show out the Nick show as the worst thing that happened since the Next Mutation lol.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 06:41 PM
I imagine you as TeamFourStar Vegeta who loves the OT and 4Kids but takes every opportunity to slyly cuss this show out the Nick show as the worst thing that happened since the Next Mutation lol.

He's been doing this for at least 2 years too, since around the beginning of Season 3 I think. We're now in Season 5 and he sits here complaining in every Nick episode review thread and the news/info threads over and over.

Vegita-San
04-10-2017, 06:42 PM
I didn't get the reference(oh, wait, 4 star dragonball? Why was i thinking pokemon or something?), but i think i understand the meaning behind the sentiment!:D

Thing is, I don't think it's the worse thing to happen since next mutation. I find that it's largely a missed opportunity for greatness because it's poorly run and too many hands are trying to decide what it should be.

only the people here who deem any insult or criticism to the show as a personal insult to them seem to think i'm on some kind of crusade ;o)..

The animation is excellent. most of the character designs are ok. The Voices are top notch. the Music is perfect.

but the plotting, writing, and development leaves ALOT to be desired. and most of it comes off as half assed. you can criticize a franchise you love and still want to be informed on what happens in it ;o)

Aaronardo
04-10-2017, 06:52 PM
Likewise Splinter departed into heaven, completely separate from all the ghouls being sent back down below to Hell or the netherworld. They made that distinction quite clear, that's why Splinter didn't disappear when all the other ghosts did...but afterward. So I don't see why you keep bringing that up.

Aaaaaand this little gem sums up this entire debate. Sure, one time is a mistake, but come on, this has been more than a couple times by now. The fact that Splinter "departed into heaven, completely separate from all the ghouls being sent back down to Hell" was exactly my point. Why is he the special snowflake spirit that just happens to come down from the skies if Kavaxas specifically released the ghouls from the underworld? Can Splinter's spirit just transcend worlds whenever it damn well pleases? That cheapens the death, but, hey, this show is an expert at that, so why am I even complaining, right?

I'd argue the rest of your points, but why bother? If you're just going to restate my exact point against you and try to turn it against me without any change to the original point or any original argument of your own, what's the point?

Although I definitely agree that saying this Shredder wasn't a threat and was barely in the series at all is a pretty bombastic claim.

Vegita-San
04-10-2017, 06:54 PM
Although I definitely agree that saying this Shredder wasn't a threat and was barely in the series at all is a pretty bombastic claim.

Never said he wasn't a threat. just that it FELT like he was hardly in the series at all during the Krang Years, and then kind of jumped center stage.

Maybe Splinter wasn't part of the demon horde. he got sent down as an agent from above to help out?

but yeah, while the proper send off was a nice touch, it DOES cheapen the death.

Why kill him of if he's just going to come back as a ghost?

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 06:57 PM
Aaaaaand this little gem sums up this entire debate. Sure, one time is a mistake, but come on, this has been more than a couple times by now. The fact that Splinter "departed into heaven, completely separate from all the ghouls being sent back down to Hell" was exactly my point. Why is he the special snowflake spirit that just happens to come down from the skies if Kavaxas specifically released the ghouls from the underworld? Can Splinter's spirit just transcend worlds whenever it damn well pleases? That cheapens the death, but, hey, this show is an expert at that, so why am I even complaining, right?

Perhaps that is the case. Perhaps his spirit lingered in the living world a little longer because he had "unfinished business" as in Shredder killed him and he wanted to make sure his sons were safe. A lot of other series do something similar. Now that the threat of Shredder is gone, Splinter departed to the afterlife.

I'd argue the rest of your points, but why bother? If you're just going to restate my exact point against you and try to turn it against me without any change to the original point or any original argument of your own, what's the point?

Either way, a lot of your points were nitpicks blown out of proportion, like complaining about minor support character roles like Leatherhead, Fishface, Bebop/Rocksteady, etc...when all their roles in this arc was fine. And the invasion itself was just to "raise the stakes" and not the main focus point.

Aaronardo
04-10-2017, 07:03 PM
And the invasion itself was just to "raise the stakes" and not the main focus point.

Not to come off as a dick, I'm just legitimately curious, what, to you, is the main focus point of the episode? I'm just convinced that the main plotline revolves around Kavaxas gaining the ability to unleash his power and doing just that, leading directly to the end times.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 07:09 PM
Not to come off as a dick, I'm just legitimately curious, what, to you, is the main focus point of the episode? I'm just convinced that the main plotline revolves around Kavaxas gaining the ability to unleash his power and doing just that, leading directly to the end times.

The plot itself was of course raising Shredder (which was independent of the whole ghost invasion), and Kavaxas trying to break free of Tiger Claw's control and then of course all the chaos afterward to set things right. Kavaxas endgame was of course to unleash hell on Earth, so to speak, but it was also done to raise the stakes and show why they had to stop him here and now. And why the Turtles couldn't just let him and Shredder roam around for the next 10-15 episodes before stopping them or whatever.

I like the ghosts invasion because of the cool visuals and action scenes it gave us, but I didn't sit there thinking, "Man this needs to be expanded on for another 2-3 episodes!" or anything.

Aaronardo
04-10-2017, 07:26 PM
I thought the same thing, so, okay. I just think that Avatar's "Sozin's Comet" arc is appropriately about Sozin's Comet and the battle/catastrophe that results from it, and not quite about, say, Aang learning firebending which was built up in the episodes before. Likewise, I feel "End Times" is about, as I previously stated, the end times that results from Kavaxas. But that's probably just me, anyway. This episode is so jam-packed you could say it's about many things.

I like the ghosts invasion because of the cool visuals and action scenes it gave us, but I didn't sit there thinking, "Man this needs to be expanded on for another 2-3 episodes!" or anything.

I didn't either. I thought the stuff with Leo/Splinter, Zombie Shredder's arc... thing, the explanation about the Foot minions, and Fishface's (in this case, very sudden) turn away from the Foot could've been explored/built up more to keep this one episode from feeling incredibly packed.

THGhost
04-10-2017, 09:00 PM
Great episode, sad to see Kavaxas go though. I really liked him as a villain. Loved how Mikey took him down though.

That Megan Fox line. Really? :roll:

That "Kitty Jones" billboard has seen a lot of action during this series, but it's still standing!

I've never noticed it before. And it actually says "Jonesy Kitty". A reference to Jonesy the cat from Alien & Aliens, perhaps?

Ninturtle
04-10-2017, 09:03 PM
How do we know this is Tiger Claw's last appearance?

snake
04-10-2017, 09:09 PM
How do we know this is Tiger Claw's last appearance?

His VA said so.

TigerClaw
04-10-2017, 09:11 PM
How do we know this is Tiger Claw's last appearance?
Right here.
https://twitter.com/bauzilla/status/851120566585114626

FredWolfLeonardo
04-10-2017, 09:13 PM
So Tiger Claw, Fishface and Razhar are never appearing again? That's a shame. I feel like those three weren't given a proper send off at all. Razhar's dead, Fishface is gone on vacation and Tiger Claw just called a truce when he was biggest enemies with the turtles.

I guess it'll be much more satisfying if I see their appearances in the season 4 as their send off, with season 5 just being an epilogue.

Atleast the chances are much better for Bebop and Rocksteady, who will almost surely appear again.

MCLeo28
04-10-2017, 09:22 PM
Anyone feel Shinigami has lacked any sense of importance within this show after her 2nd appearance? She's interesting, but is never given an opportunity in the limelight. Hopefully she returns again.

FredWolfLeonardo
04-10-2017, 09:24 PM
Anyone feel Shinigami has lacked any sense of importance within this show after her 2nd appearance? She's interesting, but is never given an opportunity in the limelight. Hopefully she returns again.

I think there was footage of her in the season 5 trailer which showed the monster episodes.

THGhost
04-10-2017, 09:29 PM
No more Tiger Claw, Fishface or Razhar? That sucks, that wasn't a proper send off at all. :(

MCLeo28
04-10-2017, 09:31 PM
No more Tiger Claw, Fishface or Razhar? That sucks, that wasn't a proper send off at all. :(

Fishface's was fine, but Rahzar and Tiger Claw's was not.

I think there was footage of her in the season 5 trailer which showed the monster episodes.

Sounds good then. Hopefully she'll appear with Karai including when the Salamandrians (spelling?) visit Earth.

FredWolfLeonardo
04-10-2017, 09:40 PM
No more Tiger Claw, Fishface or Razhar? That sucks, that wasn't a proper send off at all. :(

i just pretend their send off was season 4 and season 5 is just an additional cameo from them, much more satisfying that way. Atleast their endings in Requiem and Owari felt more like a send off that could be the end.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 10:02 PM
Fishface's was fine, but Rahzar and Tiger Claw's was not.h.

Uh, what? Rahzar is flat out dead. How did he not get the most proper sendoff?

Tiger Claw's was left open, and Fishface is just going back to a life of crime.

victory_angel
04-10-2017, 10:58 PM
Aaaaaand this little gem sums up this entire debate. Sure, one time is a mistake, but come on, this has been more than a couple times by now. The fact that Splinter "departed into heaven, completely separate from all the ghouls being sent back down to Hell" was exactly my point. Why is he the special snowflake spirit that just happens to come down from the skies if Kavaxas specifically released the ghouls from the underworld? Can Splinter's spirit just transcend worlds whenever it damn well pleases? That cheapens the death, but, hey, this show is an expert at that, so why am I even complaining, right?

Although I definitely agree that saying this Shredder wasn't a threat and was barely in the series at all is a pretty bombastic claim.

Never said he wasn't a threat. just that it FELT like he was hardly in the series at all during the Krang Years, and then kind of jumped center stage.

Maybe Splinter wasn't part of the demon horde. he got sent down as an agent from above to help out?

but yeah, while the proper send off was a nice touch, it DOES cheapen the death.

Why kill him of if he's just going to come back as a ghost?

I'm sort of assuming that both Splinter and Shredder do have some affiliation Japanese Buddistism though maybe not observant in practice.

The Buddhist version of hell is essentially Dante's inferno on steroids and even getting to the first judge is an unpleasant 7 day journey in which the corruption of the mortal world manifests itself as swords that pierce the body and you have to climb a thorn covered mountain that is a manifestation of the greed you held in life. And on top of this there are birds that peck at your eyes and skin.

You have to face four judges who can send you to hell directly if you are deemed wicked enough. Not to mention that there are various other trials between each judge that are not a casual walk in the park.

For example, after the first judge you have a seven day journey across the Sanzu River and three ways you can cross.

If you were good in life you can cross a bridge and get across safely.

If you were okay (did bad things for good reasons) you wade across through a shallow part of the river

And if you were bad you take a swim through snake-filled rapids.

The fifth judge you face is the lord of the underworld himself, King Enma. And he is the one who determines which of the six realms you will go to. In addition to weighing the previous judgments, you have faced to determine your fate. He will also hold up a mirror which will reflect your life back at you and clearly show you all your crimes and transgressions.


So when the Shredder tells Kavaxas" You and I don't belong here demon!" He is saying he is deserving of where he has being sent and no longer belongs in the mortal realm.

Splinter on the other hand. while he isn't a saint is good enough to be accepted into heaven or one of the more peaceful realms.

But placement into heaven or hell isn't immediate there are still two other judges and a few more trials after Enma, but they are more finalizing ones destination.

And since Splinter was taken so suddenly from his children, he felt he should help with stopping the event that was going on and also it gave him a final moment where he could say good-bye to them.

Toadtrooper
04-11-2017, 12:16 AM
It feels like Tales is going to just be Ciro's fangirl scrapbook of season ideas being cut down into a few episodes apiece. Not to tell a good story, but to get them onto his resume before production shuts down.

Kavaxas would have been a great season-long story arc. But as five episodes, it's too rushed, too overstuffed, too exposition-dependent, and doesn't add anything significant to the show's lore. Having Hamill voice Kavaxas is the only interesting thing about him, other than perhaps the Hothead toy design cameo.

Ciro shouldn't be patting himself on the back. He took what should be a vibrant, lasting intellectual property and made it tedious AF. Has he ever tried rewatching his own show? Might be the wake-up call he needs.

MCLeo28
04-11-2017, 02:01 AM
Uh, what? Rahzar is flat out dead. How did he not get the most proper sendoff?

Tiger Claw's was left open, and Fishface is just going back to a life of crime.

He was used as a pawn who did nothing notable and ended up dying while contributing absolutely nothing to the finale. He was treated as a dog, a state of being that he loathed the most, and died like one. Fishface on the contrary, could at least regain a semblance of his normal, human life and was treated like one even when he still wasn't human.

Tiger Claw's story ended when there were more pages left to be desired and an off-screen truce with little exposition behind it was vacuous writing. There's a reason why people want to see more Tiger Claw and it's because people feel as if his story ended abruptly.

CyberCubed
04-11-2017, 02:14 AM
He was used as a pawn who did nothing notable and ended up dying while contributing absolutely nothing to the finale. He was treated as a dog, a state of being that he loathed the most, and died like one. Fishface on the contrary, could at least regain a semblance of his normal, human life and was treated like one even when he still wasn't human.

Rahzar was already dead. This was just his body possessed by Kavaxas. His character arc ended, that's proper closure. Fishface was left completely open ended.

MCLeo28
04-11-2017, 02:15 AM
Rahzar was already dead. This was just his body possessed by Kavaxas. His character arc ended, that's proper closure. Fishface was left completely open ended.

Meh, whatever you say pal.

I certainly do not think Rahzar dying in the ocean while his friends waltzed away laughing as if nothing happened and being treated as a puppy which Bradford despises would be proper closure for his character. Seems rather contemptuous if you ask me.

Fishface's is open-ended, but there is a stark contrast between them. Rahzar died, Fishface didn't. Fisface gets to embrace life as if he were human, Rahzar doesn't. He just died and didn't even get the opportunity to move past just being Shredder's lapdog. In my mind, Fishface having the freedom to make his own choices, live a complacent life as a human, escape Shredder's control, and aid the turtles one time before leaving is proper departure for his character.

CyberCubed
04-11-2017, 02:24 AM
Meh, whatever you say pal.

I certainly do not think Rahzar dying in the ocean while his friends waltzed away laughing as if nothing happened and being treated as a puppy which Bradford despises would be proper closure for his character. Seems rather contemptuous if you ask me.

Dude, the character is DEAD. That's closure for the character. You can't get much more "done" than that.

What do you want? Every character to get some happy sunshine ending? I'm honestly surprised nothing bad happened to Fishface in the end in comparison.

Vicky82
04-11-2017, 02:28 AM
Meh, whatever you say pal.

In the episode, Kavaxas did call Rahzar and Shredder his undead minions so Rahzar was undead and under Kavaxas control as well.

We thought he was alive because it looked like Kavaxas 'resurrected him' and his body was still in good condition. But it turns out he was undead after all.

MCLeo28
04-11-2017, 02:32 AM
Dude, the character is DEAD. That's closure for the character. You can't get much more "done" than that.

What do you want? Every character to get some happy sunshine ending? I'm honestly surprised nothing bad happened to Fishface in the end in comparison.

No I don't, the way it was executed was appalling. All you're telling me is that Rahzar's death is closure which I acknowledged, but it does not discredit my opinion of it being executed egregiously.

Meanwhile, you're telling me Fishface's is bad because it's open-ended even though what is conferred on Fishface (a life of crime) at least invokes some sort of character development and had meaning because it served a purpose for Fishface as a character. I cannot say Rahzar's death was meaningful in the slightest in comparison. Seriously, what was meaningful about Rahzar's death?

Vicky82
04-11-2017, 02:53 AM
When Rahzar died in Requiem some people including me thought he wasn't dead because we didn't see his body but then he returned to his undead body by Kavaxas

To me Rahzar last appearance was closure for me because he wasn't alive after all, just undead like Shredder and he fell into the Netherworld so we know he aint returning.

Fishface last appearance was also closure for me because he left the foot clan and gone back to old life as a thief.

To me Tiger Claws last appearance didn't feel closure at all because his truce with the turtles was done off screen and it felt like he was going to return later but it turned out it was his last appearance.

So to me Fishface and Rahzar's last appearance were closures.

If Rahzar wasn't seen again after Requiem, I wouldn't have considered his last appearance as closure because we never saw his dead body after he drowned by Letherhead.

CyberCubed
04-11-2017, 02:59 AM
No I don't, the way it was executed was appalling. All you're telling me is that Rahzar's death is closure which I acknowledged, but it does not discredit my opinion of it being executed egregiously.

LOL, using words like, "appalling" to describe Rahzar's fate is ridiculous. The character died last season. He was briefly revived as an undead minion and then was "dead" once more after he fell into the pit and Kavaxas was gone. That's it. Rahzar didn't need some any final closure when his character was done.

JH24
04-11-2017, 06:34 AM
It was an enjoyable episode, although one that might have worked better as a two-parter. The ending was very nice, a bit of a repeat of the season 4 finale, but I love those kind of bonding moments.

I like how they've portrayed Mikey. It feels they've found a balance with his character. He's more likeable than ever. He just feels like himself now. More mature, calmer, but still being his goofy and fun self.

matteso586
04-11-2017, 06:46 AM
Sounds good then. Hopefully she'll appear with Karai including when the Salamandrians (spelling?) visit Earth.

And perhaps Shini's backstory would be revealed.

Vegita-San
04-11-2017, 08:32 AM
It feels like Tales is going to just be Ciro's fangirl scrapbook of season ideas being cut down into a few episodes apiece. Not to tell a good story, but to get them onto his resume before production shuts down.

Kavaxas would have been a great season-long story arc. But as five episodes, it's too rushed, too overstuffed, too exposition-dependent, and doesn't add anything significant to the show's lore. Having Hamill voice Kavaxas is the only interesting thing about him, other than perhaps the Hothead toy design cameo.

Ciro shouldn't be patting himself on the back. He took what should be a vibrant, lasting intellectual property and made it tedious AF. Has he ever tried rewatching his own show? Might be the wake-up call he needs.


Doubtful. have you ever seen how people interact with him? it's like they are afraid to tell him an idea is bad, they have to constantly praise him in person. He gives me the impression of someone wound up so tight that he's one step away from having an outburst at a convention. or throwing stuff at santa on an ice hockey rink.


I will say I DID find Kavaxas interesting, but yeah, he should have been a longer season long villain. not for 4 episodes. Maybe they could have had shredder send him up from hell to replace him or something. Instead, we got a shredder that did nothing, had a complete out of character turn around to 'save the day', and an episode that felt like it was half an idea stretched out into 4 shows.


As for Shingami, not only is it one of the oddest character introductions that came out of nowhere in tmnt history, it's also one of the most useless. so, she's got what appears to be a little magic and looks like a goth character. what other purpose does she have? not a warrior.. isn't strong enough to defeat any enemies. other than a cool voice and interesting, if basic, look, rather useless..

MCLeo28
04-11-2017, 09:18 AM
LOL, using words like, "appalling" to describe Rahzar's fate is ridiculous. The character died last season. He was briefly revived as an undead minion and then was "dead" once more after he fell into the pit and Kavaxas was gone. That's it. Rahzar didn't need some any final closure when his character was done.

Yawn, while you're still quibbling over useless crap such as semantics, you have failed to prove how he was given proper closure. The way he was sent off in both Season 4 and Season 5 is underwhelming. Stop trying to debate with me irrationally if you're just going to stall and post complete gibberish. You know that's what I said, let's not act like I didn't.

CyberCubed
04-11-2017, 12:50 PM
Because that IS closure. The character died! When any character dies in any show/movie/comic/whatever...that's the end of the character! They die! It's the same thing like heroes dying in the middle of battle or losing their loved ones or whatever, of course they don't get closure with their families...they're gone.

Dust
04-11-2017, 01:04 PM
Bradford had no real character left, he had no arc to close. So killing him off in this instance is closure, I agree with Cubed.

MCLeo28
04-11-2017, 01:09 PM
Because that IS closure. The character died! When any character dies in any show/movie/comic/whatever...that's the end of the character! They die! It's the same thing like heroes dying in the middle of battle or losing their loved ones or whatever, of course they don't get closure with their families...they're gone.

There is closure and there is proper closure. His was the former where his death is not symbolic of a significant character who contributed to the story over the course of 4 years, even having been conferred an entirely new mutation as a sign of respect. Seriously, in what world is a meaningless death where even his comrades couldn't care less a form of profuse respect and proper closure?

Provide a response that does not misconstrue what I said or do not respond at all.

MCLeo28
04-11-2017, 01:10 PM
Bradford had no real character left, he had no arc to close. So killing him off in this instance is closure, I agree with Cubed.

So because of horrible writing, Rahzar was left undeveloped and wasn't given the closure he deserved because of it. Do tell how that sounds like a fairly logical premise.

Simply having no arc left does not mean he should be discarded carelessly, that is just folly. What I'm getting at is the same reason why people were disaffected by Tiger Claw's departure in spite of being a well-written character, his story was closed off abruptly and off-screen which is inexcusable.

Vicky82
04-11-2017, 01:20 PM
There is closure and there is proper closure. His was the former where his death is not symbolic of a significant character who contributed to the story over the course of 4 years, even having been conferred an entirely new mutation as a sign of respect. Seriously, in what world is a meaningless death where even his comrades couldn't care less a form of profuse respect and proper closure?

Provide a response that does not misconstrue what I said or do not respond at all.

So were you expecting to see a funeral or a memorial for Rahzar or something.

Here lies an arsehole who followed orders from his master who was also an arsehole, we won't miss him and hope he will be tortured in hell for all eternity. :P

MCLeo28
04-11-2017, 01:34 PM
So were you expecting to see a funeral or a memorial for Rahzar or something.

Nice exaggeration, but no I'm not.

As said before, I'm expecting that there would be more thought into Rahzar's departure to create at least feasible closure for him rather than what we got when he's one-of-a-kind and an important asset to the show. I'm not a writer, so I cannot tell you how it would be executed. I am simply arguing that based on how it was executed, it was rushed and poorly written.

In before someone resorts to another petty response without reading what I have to say.

Anarchistguy
04-11-2017, 01:36 PM
The part that freaked me out the most is seeing that Rhazar was an undead zombie this whole arc...creeped me the hell out.

DestronMirage22
04-11-2017, 01:39 PM
The part that freaked me out the most is seeing that Rhazar was an undead zombie this whole arc...creeped me the hell out.

But he already kinda looked like a zombie to begin with...

Vicky82
04-11-2017, 01:41 PM
Nice exaggeration, but no I'm not.

As said before, I'm expecting that there would be more thought into Rahzar's departure to create at least feasible closure for him rather than what we got when he's one-of-a-kind and an important asset to the show. I'm not a writer, so I cannot tell you how it would be executed. I am simply arguing that based on how it was executed, it was rushed and poorly written.

In before someone resorts to another petty response without reading what I have to say.

Rahzar was a villian not a hero so he doesn't deserve proper closer. If he was a hero and didn't get a proper closure then I can understand where your coming from but he was a villain and villains aren't meant to get proper closures.

But to be honest If Requiem was Rahzar last appearance then I would of been annoyed because we didn't see his body and I thought he was still alive, so it wouldn't of been closure for me. Seeing him falling him into the Netherworld did give me closure because we know he aint coming back.

But I was still a little dissppointed how he died in Requiem or End times because I did actually want Mikey to kill him because of there history.

Dust
04-11-2017, 01:43 PM
Nice exaggeration, but no I'm not.

As said before, I'm expecting that there would be more thought into Rahzar's departure to create at least feasible closure for him rather than what we got when he's one-of-a-kind and an important asset to the show. I'm not a writer, so I cannot tell you how it would be executed. I am simply arguing that based on how it was executed, it was rushed and poorly written.

In before someone resorts to another petty response without reading what I have to say.

If Rahzar wasn't basically forgotten and received proper development through the series, I'd agree with your point. However, due to poor writing with his character, he's reduced to "guy who's loyal to the Shredder", and there is no sympathy for him, as the Shredder's actions can be interpreted as an extension of Bradford's. He's the only character who never questioned Shredder or his motives. If he was more competent, he would have become a second Shredder, a threat the Turtles do not want. Having him die is fitting, especially by Leatherhead's hands, as Bradford was Mikey's first "friend" while Leatherhead was his first REAL friend. I do agree it could've been handled better, and Rahzar himself could have been handled better.

Vegita-San
04-11-2017, 02:10 PM
So because of horrible writing, Rahzar was left undeveloped and wasn't given the closure he deserved because of it. Do tell how that sounds like a fairly logical premise.

Simply having no arc left does not mean he should be discarded carelessly, that is just folly. What I'm getting at is the same reason why people were disaffected by Tiger Claw's departure in spite of being a well-written character, his story was closed off abruptly and off-screen which is inexcusable.

just like fish face and so many others before him, bradford basically got forgotten about.

and later pushed aside for the redundant bebop and rocksteady.

Poor writing at it's finest and more proof this show felt like too many hands involved.

Vegita-San
04-11-2017, 02:11 PM
In before someone resorts to another petty response without reading what I have to say.

that's all people do online these days, especially when they think making a petty or insulting response further solidifies their position that they are right. which, of course, it doesn't ;o).

CyberCubed
04-11-2017, 02:18 PM
just like fish face and so many others before him, bradford basically got forgotten about.

and later pushed aside for the redundant bebop and rocksteady.

Poor writing at it's finest and more proof this show felt like too many hands involved.

What on earth are you talking about now? Even after Bebop/Rocksteady were introduced they had Rahzar/Fishface and Tiger Claw as the main villains in various episodes.

In fact Bebop/Rocksteady weren't even in that many eps to begin with. They didn't get mutated until halfway into Season 3, then they weren't in the first 14 eps of Season 4 because of the obvious space arc, so then they only appear in the later parts of Season 4 and two or three Season 5 eps so far.

Autbot_Benz
04-11-2017, 02:36 PM
My god the replies in this post summed up in one youtube video

E-BU8menYlk

Vegita-San
04-11-2017, 02:38 PM
My god the replies in this post summed up in one youtube video

E-BU8menYlk

hey, in order to survive, sometimes you gotta fit in with the crowd ;o)

ToTheNines
04-11-2017, 03:16 PM
My god the replies in this post summed up in one youtube video

E-BU8menYlk

Yeah. I know one I've given cubed a lot of crap over the years, but now he's just literally ruining threads.

Vegita-San
04-11-2017, 03:19 PM
Yeah. I know one I've given cubed a lot of crap over the years, but now he's just literally ruining threads.

this place does remember it can ban people, right?

CyberCubed
04-11-2017, 03:21 PM
this place does remember it can ban people, right?

You've been trolling the Nick section for at least 2 years, so you're not one to talk. You don't even seem like you actually watch the episodes.

DestronMirage22
04-11-2017, 03:22 PM
this place does remember it can ban people, right?

But can't they also issue warnings? And banning him would be kind of weird, like removing a beauty mark: what added character would no longer be there, leaving an empty void.

GoldMutant
04-11-2017, 03:23 PM
You're not one to talk.

The truth hurts.

ToTheNines
04-11-2017, 03:25 PM
this place does remember it can ban people, right?

People generally only get banned for:

1. Sexual images/threats of violence/use of racial slurs. The big no-no stuff.
2. Insulting mods.
3. Insulting friends of mods.

The obnoxious discussion killers only get dealt with after a prolonged period of near-unanimous desire to see them axed.

Vegita-San
04-11-2017, 03:31 PM
hmmm....guess it's only a matter of how big an annoyance one thinks someone is.


although if alot of people would just put him on ignore like i did, he'd probably get bored and go away...like so many others on other forums do once you stop engaging them in their odd behavior.

Vicky82
04-11-2017, 03:31 PM
A lot of people here need to be banned, including that escaped mental patient.

It's also very hard to ban people who've been here for over 10 years :lol:

GoldMutant
04-11-2017, 03:33 PM
A lot of people here need to be band, including that escaped mental patient.

The Drome cannot be a rock band. ;):lol:
______________________________

Seriously though, was there even a scene indicating the resurrected Rahzar died? The end where Kavaxas and Shredder go through the portal was a bit too fast, so I may have missed it.

CyberCubed
04-11-2017, 03:35 PM
hmmm....guess it's only a matter of how big an annoyance one thinks someone is.

although if alot of people would just put him on ignore like i did, he'd probably get bored and go away...like so many others on other forums do once you stop engaging them in their odd behavior.

I wonder if Vegita-san even realizes his irony that he doesn't make any legitimate posts in Nick threads. You can even look through his post history and see how he blatantly trolls and posts incorrect information on episodes (in both the episode review threads and the official info threads), and then believes what his own nonsense.

In any case, this was a great episode, and I loved most of the Nick show so far aside from a few episodes. I'll defend the show as long as I enjoy it.

DestronMirage22
04-11-2017, 03:37 PM
A lot of people here need to be banned, including that escaped mental patient.


Umm...Are you referring to Cubed? He's pretty bad, but I dunno about mental.

CyberCubed
04-11-2017, 03:38 PM
Umm...Are you referring to Cubed? He's pretty bad, but I dunno about mental.

I think he means Gobo? Guy is in jail now.

Autbot_Benz
04-11-2017, 03:39 PM
If that mental patient retard Shredderorkousaki won't get banned and trollfanforever Cubed will never be banned. lets be real here.

DestronMirage22
04-11-2017, 03:40 PM
I think he means Gobo? Guy is in jail now.

Was that the pedophile? Doesn't make sense to want to ban him if he's in jail with no access to internet.

Vicky82
04-11-2017, 03:40 PM
The Drome cannot be a rock band. ;):lol:
______________________________

Seriously though, was there even a scene indicating the resurrected Rahzar died? The end where Kavaxas and Shredder go through the portal was a bit too fast, so I may have missed it.

That was my predictive text :lol:

He wasn't exactly resurrected, he was undead like Shredder.

We just saw him falling into the Netherworld. He didn't appear again.

CyberCubed
04-11-2017, 03:42 PM
When Kavaxas got sent back to the netherworld it's pretty obvious Rahzar's undeadness...wore off. He probably went back to being just a corpse. He was just a zombie after all.

Vicky82
04-11-2017, 03:44 PM
Umm...Are you referring to Cubed? He's pretty bad, but I dunno about mental.

:lol:

I'm talking about the guy who pretends to be Shredder.

Aaronardo
04-11-2017, 03:44 PM
including that escaped mental patient.

Is it sad that I knew exactly who you were talking about immediately? :lol:

Autbot_Benz
04-11-2017, 03:44 PM
Is it sad that I knew exactly who you were talking about immediately? :lol:

I did too :lol:

Vegita-San
04-11-2017, 04:04 PM
But can't they also issue warnings? And banning him would be kind of weird, like removing a beauty mark: what added character would no longer be there, leaving an empty void.

if it means normal conversation...i'm willing to risk it.

but that seems to have vanished on the net these days. it's all over emotional posturing.

MCLeo28
04-11-2017, 05:15 PM
It was fine when I first read his posts until I realized that he literally does it in every thread he's in which has gotten out-of-hand.

Machias Banshee
04-11-2017, 08:49 PM
We try to be patient with people when they get into passionate debate, but all I"m seeing here is this:

https://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/2015/12/17/635859810085349661702842070_fighting.gif

Cybercubed, you've been trolling people ever since this thread began. Take a breather - just cuz they don't agree with you doesn't mean they don't have 'legitimate' posts. And I don't care if you've been here for a while... it doesn't make you untouchable.

Vegeta, discussing stuff is fine. Don't get into a back-and-forth bitch fest with anyone. If you don't like something and want to just go into threads and trash the discussion, then go somewhere else.


That's your warning.

Vegita-San
04-11-2017, 09:23 PM
I'll just leave my peace at this. Because I understand WHY the above post was made.

Cube has been riding on me for MONTHS for some things and i've left it alone for months. all because he doesn't like stuff I happen to say.
I put him on ignore, but I still see the quoted stuff in other posts. other members then call me crazy and belligerent, all because i happen to say stuff THEY personally don't like...and that's OK?
Put me on ignore if you don't like me. i honestly won't take offense. it's happened before :)

I think I'm allowed a LITTLE ribbing on my end because he refuses to drop stuff.. I Normally DON'T go back at people because i hate confrontation, and I usually get along with just about everyone.... but every now and then, I will feel the need to go back. and that's usually ONLY when I do it. If only to explain for myself, OR stick up for myself.

as far as trashing stuff, WHAT exactly am I trashing? disagreeing with people and not liking something 100% is not trashing it. except for the people going after me, it's all been rather civil discussion.
I'm honestly curious about that. has the world gotten so tired of 'negativity' that everyone has to like everything all the time?

If you want to reply in PM so as not to drag the thread off further, Please feel free to do so.

ABrown
04-11-2017, 10:39 PM
they brought back the evil chinese dead guy no one remembers?

Yeah, who was that guy supposed to be? Has he been on the show before?

Anyone feel Shinigami has lacked any sense of importance within this show after her 2nd appearance? She's interesting, but is never given an opportunity in the limelight. Hopefully she returns again.

Her and Karai should get a spinoff.

Vegita-San
04-11-2017, 10:40 PM
Yeah, who was that guy supposed to be? Has he been on the show before?



Her and Karai should get a spinoff.

I may have seen most of these shows only once, but as I recall, the last time we saw him, he got trapped in some kind of magic jar and got sent to the bottom of the ocean. i can't even remember what his plot line was.

it was just an odd, one off villain, it makes me wonder why they chose him. other than the fact that he was already a ghost

PApagreg
04-11-2017, 10:46 PM
Her and Karai should get a spinoff.

We can call it Punk/Goth Ninjas

CyberCubed
04-11-2017, 10:53 PM
Yeah, who was that guy supposed to be? Has he been on the show before?

Ho-chan, he was in one of the last few Season 2 episodes.

Darth Knuckles
04-11-2017, 11:42 PM
I feel like this episode was very rushed. There could have been moments written for a Karai / Zombie Shredder interaction as they were fighting that would make Shredder want to take Kavaxas back to the Netherealm and a moment for Tiger Claw to show his truce with the turtles. I'd like to think there were moments like these that just got cut for time.

I also thought this could set-up a very cool final moment with Tiger Claw later in the series to maybe help the turtles out in fighting a new enemy down the line. I wouldn't think he would be with The Mighty Mutanimals but he could just show up to help save the Earth or something. But if what Eric Bauza said is true (I hope he's fibbing) then this was Tiger Claw's last appearance. It's still a good way to go out for Tiger Claw, with honor, and I agree that Tiger Claw was the greatest new stand out character from the Nick show.

Vegita-San
04-12-2017, 10:22 AM
he was the only new standout.

Fishface and bradford COULD have been amazing, if they didn't get forgotten about after the first season.

PApagreg
04-12-2017, 11:40 AM
I agree that Tiger Claw was the greatest new stand out character from the Nick show.
Eh I still prefer Xever

Vegita-San
04-12-2017, 12:02 PM
Eh I still prefer Xever

Yeah, I like xever before he got mutated more. Bradford was really only interesting because of clancy brown. he got more fun when they added that stupid tv show into the mix though.

CyberCubed
04-12-2017, 12:40 PM
Fishface and bradford COULD have been amazing, if they didn't get forgotten about after the first season.

They didn't get forgotten, they're in the most amount of episodes of all of Shredder's henchmen. Granted Fishface DID get pushed into the sidelines for a while, but he was never truly forgotten.

You tried to say Baxter was forgotten and then Vicky82 posted a list and he was in 24 episodes, proving you wrong. Maybe he should do the same for the others.

Vicky82
04-12-2017, 01:27 PM
They didn't get forgotten, they're in the most amount of episodes of all of Shredder's henchmen. Granted Fishface DID get pushed into the sidelines for a while, but he was never truly forgotten.

You tried to say Baxter was forgotten and then Vicky82 posted a list and he was in 24 episodes, proving you wrong. Maybe he should do the same for the others.

I'm a she not a he, how many men have you met that are called Vicky.

***First of Two Latin Kings***
04-12-2017, 02:27 PM
They were the Nick equivalent to Bebop and Rocksteady, but then Bebop and Rocksteady showed up, making them kind of redundant and unnecessary.

Vegita-San
04-12-2017, 02:29 PM
yep. another sign of multiple hands involved in the show and not one knows what it wants to be.

CyberCubed
04-12-2017, 03:46 PM
Sorry, Vicky82. I thought it was nickname of the name "Victor."

yep. another sign of multiple hands involved in the show and not one knows what it wants to be.

Why do you keep saying this when Ciro and Brandon Auman worked on the entire show?

ssjup81
04-12-2017, 04:39 PM
I liked this episode okay and the references, but prefer the other three to this one. This episode felt way too rushed to me and Tigerclaw calling a truce offscreen felt abrupt and weird, like something was dropped for time reasons.

It sucks that this season couldn't have eps with longer runtimes.

ssjup81
04-12-2017, 04:41 PM
Ho-chan, he was in one of the last few Season 2 episodes.Welp, they said he'd be back and he definitely did get brought back. :lol:

CyberCubed
04-12-2017, 04:53 PM
Tiger Claw declared the truce on-screen. In any case this was only episode 4 of a 20 episode season, so I don't think anything of Tiger Claw was cut for time. If they wanted him to appear again they had 16 more episodes to do so.

Although it does make me wonder if they left Tiger Claw's fate open in case the show got renewed for a Season 6, but as we know that didn't happen.

TigerClaw
04-12-2017, 05:05 PM
Tiger Claw declared the truce on-screen. In any case this was only episode 4 of a 20 episode season, so I don't think anything of Tiger Claw was cut for time. If they wanted him to appear again they had 16 more episodes to do so.

Although it does make me wonder if they left Tiger Claw's fate open in case the show got renewed for a Season 6, but as we know that didn't happen.
Maybe TigerClaw will show up in the 2018 series, If its based in the Nick TMNT universe.

Darth Knuckles
04-12-2017, 11:25 PM
Eh I still prefer Xever

I can understand that PApagreg. While Tiger Claw is easily my favorite new character, the others I really liked as well were Fishface/Xever, Commander G'Throkka/Sal Commander, Kraang Subprime, and The Newtralizer.

Allio
04-12-2017, 11:51 PM
Hopefully you never post in the episode threads for the next cartoon.

this is weird coming from the poster.

Krang100
04-13-2017, 06:34 AM
Great episode, is nice to see Splinter again, helping his family (I didn't like when he was killed).

I thought Xever was killed, when Raphael attacked him, i'd rather Xever hadn't survived the fight and had returned as zombie, as Razar did.

This time Mike save the day, he stopped Kavaxas.

Allio
04-13-2017, 07:01 AM
I liked Tigerclaw, was the only mutant in the foot that didn't lose his competence.

MCLeo28
04-13-2017, 07:19 PM
I liked Tigerclaw, was the only mutant in the foot that didn't lose his competence.

What irks me is that Tiger Claw's strength fluctuated significantly depending on the plot's progression, but it was definitely satisfying to see how Shredder's right-hand man was still very competent.

PApagreg
04-14-2017, 12:17 AM
I liked Tigerclaw, was the only mutant in the foot that didn't lose his competence.

I don't know, I remember him getting punked by Casey

MCLeo28
04-14-2017, 09:40 PM
I don't know, I remember him getting punked by Casey

That never happened. In all actuality, the only reason Tiger Claw struggled initially was because Casey had nifty gadgets, but throughout the entire fight, Tiger Claw was the cat while Casey was the mouse.

MarsicornYT
04-15-2017, 03:24 AM
When Shredder and Kavaxas went into the netherworld portal, I got the same feeling when Drako and that other guy went into that portal from the 4kids series at the Battle Nexus. So is it possible that the Shredder and Kavaxas could have merged together like when this happened in the 2k3 series?

https://s15.postimg.org/awmq4xiuv/delete_after.png (https://postimg.org/image/awmq4xiuv/)

Powder
04-15-2017, 03:39 AM
Anything's possible, though I don't see them going in that direction.

matteso586
04-15-2017, 07:04 AM
Is anyone confused about why Ho Chan isn't trapped in the dagger?

oldmanwinters
04-15-2017, 08:09 AM
When Shredder and Kavaxas went into the netherworld portal, I got the same feeling when Drako and that other guy went into that portal from the 4kids series at the Battle Nexus. So is it possible that the Shredder and Kavaxas could have merged together like when this happened in the 2k3 series?

https://s15.postimg.org/awmq4xiuv/delete_after.png (https://postimg.org/image/awmq4xiuv/)

Anything's possible, though I don't see them going in that direction.

Haha, the thought hadn't crossed my mind but it seems it could have been a possibility if the show even went to Season 6!

Vegita-San
04-15-2017, 08:11 AM
Is anyone confused about why Ho Chan isn't trapped in the dagger?

that would be a continuing detail. this show doesn't care about such middling concerns :)

Vicky82
04-15-2017, 08:29 AM
Is anyone confused about why Ho Chan isn't trapped in the dagger?

he's not just trapped in a dagger, it's obviously part of the Netherworld too. So it has more than one exit, The dagger and what what Kavaxas did.

ToTheNines
04-15-2017, 08:30 AM
When Shredder and Kavaxas went into the netherworld portal, I got the same feeling when Drako and that other guy went into that portal from the 4kids series at the Battle Nexus. So is it possible that the Shredder and Kavaxas could have merged together like when this happened in the 2k3 series?

https://s15.postimg.org/awmq4xiuv/delete_after.png (https://postimg.org/image/awmq4xiuv/)

Anything's possible, though I don't see them going in that direction.

Haha, the thought hadn't crossed my mind but it seems it could have been a possibility if the show even went to Season 6!

I highly doubt it would happen, but the thought of Hammil and KMR jointly voicing the same evil character is awesome. Not only because of how cool their voices are, but because it would be a double dose of Joker :D

Aaronardo
04-15-2017, 10:00 AM
I highly doubt it would happen, but the thought of Hammil and KMR jointly voicing the same evil character is awesome. Not only because of how cool their voices are, but because it would be a double dose of Joker :D

It never crossed my mind how cool it would be hearing Richardson and Hamill voice the same character, but as someone who also really likes KMR's Joker, now that the thought's in my head, I really want it to happen. :lol:

CyberCubed
04-15-2017, 12:58 PM
I'm pretty sure Mark Hammil was only brought in for 4 episodes, so I don't think we'll see Kavaxas again.

that would be a continuing detail. this show doesn't care about such middling concerns :)

Vegita-san if you can't pay attention to the show stop whining.

MCLeo28
04-15-2017, 06:33 PM
When Shredder and Kavaxas went into the netherworld portal, I got the same feeling when Drako and that other guy went into that portal from the 4kids series at the Battle Nexus. So is it possible that the Shredder and Kavaxas could have merged together like when this happened in the 2k3 series?

https://s15.postimg.org/awmq4xiuv/delete_after.png (https://postimg.org/image/awmq4xiuv/)

To be honest, I would like that as the Series Finale, but this likely will not happen unfortunately.

the_soub
04-17-2017, 03:10 PM
How come no one is talking about the plethora of Ghostbusters references?!

"We've got the tools, we've got the talent!" Raph/Winston

Kavaxas rounds out the refrences by referening Ghostbusters 2 villain Vigo during the climax! A sanitised version of Vigo's "On a mountain of skulls, in a castle of pain,I sat on a throne of blood!": "In a dimension of suffering, in an age of pain, I ruled on a throne of bone!" and later, when facing Mikey and Leatherhead "Now is the season of Evil!"

I think there were a couple more too...

Vegita-San
04-17-2017, 03:12 PM
because what used to be clever throw back, now gets turned into a major groaner when every franchise begins to self reference others.


it doesn't have the same cool effect it did, say, ten years ago.

Powder
04-17-2017, 05:32 PM
because what used to be clever throw back, now gets turned into a major groaner when every franchise begins to self reference others.


it doesn't have the same cool effect it did, say, ten years ago.

http://909sickle.net/s/stick-in-the-mud/frames/stick-in-the-mud-001.png

CyberCubed
04-17-2017, 05:47 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing what Vegita-san is doing. He really needs to be called out on this. Look through his post history, his last 100+ posts here in the Nick forum are the same thing over and over again with slight variations.

Prototype
04-18-2017, 05:48 PM
http://909sickle.net/s/stick-in-the-mud/frames/stick-in-the-mud-001.png

A stick in a puddle of feces? Please elaborate.

PApagreg
04-18-2017, 07:30 PM
A stick in a puddle of feces? Please elaborate.

Look up the term "stick in the mud"

Wildcat
04-22-2017, 12:03 AM
I just got around to seeing this episode. Had it on my DVR. I enjoyed the episode and thought it ended well but I did not really like that was just one big Ghostbusters episode.

I like references and nods to other franchises but this was entirely a Ghostbusters episode.

How did Don suddenly make proton packs? I know about the scan thing but I mean now they suddenly have technology to fight the undead? I know all his inventions are "convenient" but they were based on things he could draw from.

I just would have preferred it be more so its own thing. I loved zombie Shredder though.

Vegita-San
04-22-2017, 01:10 PM
I just got around to seeing this episode. Had it on my DVR. I enjoyed the episode and thought it ended well but I did not really like that was just one big Ghostbusters episode.

I like references and nods to other franchises but this was entirely a Ghostbusters episode.

How did Don suddenly make proton packs? I know about the scan thing but I mean now they suddenly have technology to fight the undead? I know all his inventions are "convenient" but they were based on things he could draw from.

I just would have preferred it be more so its own thing. I loved zombie Shredder though.

exactly.

You can't have a show that tries to be serious, and then throws all logic out the window to have a cool plot point.

And note to folks around here.

I can NOT like something, yet still be a fan of the franchise itself. that's not being a hypocrite. that's called sticking to your guns and still being interested in the franchise.

but, of course, i couldn't reply to that, cause the thread got locked lol..at least I stick to my guns. some people change their tune all the time! Or t ake pot shots at you and lock threads lol.

BubblyShell22
05-04-2017, 08:02 AM
This episode was a nice send off to the arc itself. So glad we won't have to deal with Shredder anymore and I liked how Splinter got to say a proper farewell to his family and his daughter considering she never got to say goodbye to him. The Ghostbusters references were great also. I wish this wasn't Tiger Claw's last appearance though as I would love to see him team up with the Turtles at least once before the series ends. But if this is it for him, at least he made a truce with them. Overall, I felt the episode was good for what it was and it handled things nicely.

Metalwolf
05-06-2017, 04:41 PM
Well, as far as Kavaxas returning...

Doesn't he return in that episode with Dracula? It's the one where you see him kneeling in front of Dracula, with a Werewolf, Swamp Monster, and I think possibly Frankenstein's Monster there too.

MarsicornYT
05-09-2017, 03:10 AM
Really? Where did you see that? Was it in the promo? That would be awesome if he returned, I really like him :lol:

Metalwolf
05-09-2017, 01:00 PM
Really? Where did you see that? Was it in the promo? That would be awesome if he returned, I really like him :lol:It was in a old promo pic or something shown on here a few months ago.

The ep is called The Crypt of Dracula
if you need something to look up.

To be fair, I assume it was him because it's the only dragon-person creature I know of, but on second thought, it might have been Savanti but there is no voice actor listed on Turtlepedia, so either they don't know or they have no speaking lines.

Also, very spoiler-y, but Raph gets turned into a vampire.

Vegita-San
05-09-2017, 01:02 PM
tmnt ; the goth series is what we should rename this version of TMNT sometimes ;o)

oy

Vicky82
05-09-2017, 01:29 PM
Well, as far as Kavaxas returning...

Doesn't he return in that episode with Dracula? It's the one where you see him kneeling in front of Dracula, with a Werewolf, Swamp Monster, and I think possibly Frankenstein's Monster there too.

Kavaxas aint going to be in anymore episodes.

Here's the pic, it's Savanti Romero not Kavaxas.

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11163&stc=1&d=1494354338

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzdqP5eccEM&t=2s

The monsters are Dracula, A mummy, A werewolf and Frankensteins monster

DestronMirage22
05-09-2017, 03:55 PM
tmnt ; the goth series is what we should rename this version of TMNT sometimes ;o)

oy

Are you being serious? There is now way this show is dark, not with things like butt-cannons and cats made of ice cream. :lol::roll:

Vegita-San
05-09-2017, 04:06 PM
which is why alot of it doesn't work ;o).


Splinter dying off screen one shot, butt cannons and firing piles of garbage at the enemy the next :).

just seems like alot of times is trying to be dark and brooding and someone else won't let it be that :). hence, dracula and monsters :).

DestronMirage22
05-09-2017, 04:28 PM
which is why alot of it doesn't work ;o).


Splinter dying off screen one shot, butt cannons and firing piles of garbage at the enemy the next :).

just seems like alot of times is trying to be dark and brooding and someone else won't let it be that :). hence, dracula and monsters :).

Yeah, this show definitely felt like it was bipolar or something at times. :lol:
It also couldn't decide if it wanted to be it's own thing or just a modern FW.

Metalwolf
05-09-2017, 06:52 PM
Yeah, this show definitely felt like it was bipolar or something at times. :lol:
It also couldn't decide if it wanted to be it's own thing or just a modern FW.
While adding in copious amounts of OT crossovers whenever being a modern FW failed to suffice. 8)

Maybe the next, NEXT, show should be a more 'serious' OT version with better plots and less cheese, shown on Adult Swim no less, so people can finally get the seemingly immortal OT 'itch' out of their systems. :P

FredWolfLeonardo
05-09-2017, 07:03 PM
Alot of FW nods for sure, but Id say this show is almost nothing like FW to its very core. This show does not have:

1. Channel Six dynamic
2. Technodrome stuck in a different location every season
3. A main villain duo for 90% of the shows run
4. The mobsters
5. The turtles going out during the day or having disguises
6. An episodic format
7. Self aware humour

The only things I find the same as FW are Splinter being a human and the huge number of side characters with one or two appearances. Even the ones based off their FW counterparts are in name only. The problem with this show wasn't being FW, it was not having its own identity at times. FW did have its own identity and that's why it stuck out.

Despite me loving this show, one of my criticisms about it is that it feels less unique, because it made too many nods to other versions (especially FW) while trying to be its own thing. I think its best to just make a FW remake or a different show. Nick tried to do both and it worked at times but not always. I love Nick Bebop and Rocksteady but couldn't care less about their Neutrinos.

Vegita-San
05-09-2017, 07:08 PM
While adding in copious amounts of OT crossovers whenever being a modern FW failed to suffice. 8)

Maybe the next, NEXT, show should be a more 'serious' OT version with better plots and less cheese, shown on Adult Swim no less, so people can finally get the seemingly immortal OT 'itch' out of their systems. :P

The Wolf Pack doesn't like this tone of voice you Red Masks are taking:lol::D...


in all honesty though, that itch stopped because of how badly these other companies bastardized these characters.

I'm ready for the next iteration to only keep shredder, splinter, turtles and april. everything else new.

FredWolfLeonardo
05-09-2017, 07:43 PM
I'm ready for the next iteration to only keep shredder, splinter, turtles and april. everything else new.

The 4Kids show took that approach as the next show after FW. The only things it kept from FW were things like the coloured bandanas, Shredder being the main villain but it aimed to be completely different and keep the nods to a minimum.

That's why it worked and stood out as its own thing. It had a very unique identity. Even when the 4Kids did do FW nods, they felt much more natural than Nick alot of the time. I chuckled when 4Kids April got into a jumpsuit and there was an Utrom called Krang.

I can't think of any nod in 4Kids which felt forced like Nick calling some small aliens Neutrinos just because or even Nick April getting into a jumpsuit which I think the 2003 show did better. Its not like Nick April's yellow shirt wasn't enough like FW that they gave her a full on jumpsuit.

Faster and Cheaper
07-15-2017, 04:40 PM
So this was the final episode of the Kavaxas arc. Heading this episode was Team TigerClaw, in their first episode of the season. I recall talking to them at the time, one of my friends had a few shots with 1000 cultists( okay 20ish or whatever it was ) and they just slow down the computers so much, The last episode I worked on and just finished, had a crowd shot like that too. It was maddening.

Another issue from what I remember is the broken streets were a new set altogether, and if I remember right it didn't come in for the start of their episode. So they had to do their layout with the regular set and just some quick proxies.

So at the time we saw the animatics, I was surprised that Kavaxas and Shredder were dealt with, since I was under the impression that it was going to go all season in some form but after this episode is when I knew how the season was going to go down with all these different arcs. Zombie Shredder was an interesting look and powers, and I guess him in Kavaxas and Rahzar are burning in the pit( man I spent so much time bringing him back to life! :p ), this was a really impressive episode when it came to scale in action, with the cave fight with Hothead and Shredder and the ghosts in the streets. It was great to see Splinter again, and was able to properly say goodbye to his family and friends. Fun to see school Lo Pan...I mean Ho Chan ;)

Hope everyone really enjoyed this first arc, it was fun being a major and minor part of it and we have some cool stuff and weird stuff coming up this season.