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View Full Version : If Jesus resurrected tomorrow, would he be believed?


Andrew NDB
04-10-2017, 03:31 PM
http://www.bbcweb.ca/bbc/wp-content/uploads/love-matthew-25-homeless-man.jpg

There is a big belief among Christians and Catholics and the like... Jesus died for our sins, and came back to life... and will again, one day.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that they are absolutely right. He's coming back. Hell, maybe he's already here. But let's say he pops up tomorrow, calls up a news station, writes a newspaper, etc.. Who exactly is going to believe him? And how? How could anyone possibly be sure some homeless guy with garbage bag shoes isn't the real deal? Will they "just know"? How?

How is this all supposed to work, exactly?

FredWolfLeonardo
04-10-2017, 03:33 PM
Proabably not.

Jesus would be living a life living the Old Testament laws which seem savage to people nowdays and I imagine the actual Jesus was moreso a serious Jewish preacher and reformer rather than a divine being as portrayed by the Church.

ToTheNines
04-10-2017, 03:35 PM
He'd be diagnosed with schizophrenia pretty quickly.

Unless he was performing miracles and sh*t. That'd be cool.

Utrommaniac
04-10-2017, 03:38 PM
I suggest looking at the current religious climate, especially among the Christian community. He'd be rejected and reviled, just as he was in his original religious climate. And there would be those who would refuse to believe he was who he says.

And boy, he'd be pissed at the Wealthy Evangelicals™ who profit off preaching, as that was something he hated the most.

I might be agnostic/atheist, but I still went through Lutheran Confirmation in middle school.

Andrew NDB
04-10-2017, 03:39 PM
Unless he was performing miracles and sh*t. That'd be cool.

Let's assume that he would be able to perform no miracles, and had no readily apparent superpowers.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 03:41 PM
Wouldn't he just be a bum living on the street? He'd look like any other guy, as seen by your picture, just like any other raving lunatic on the street who thinks he's the son of God or whatever.

sdp
04-10-2017, 03:42 PM
God has come back before so we already know what happens; We would see the birth of a new major Abrahamic religion.

Andrew NDB
04-10-2017, 03:43 PM
Wouldn't he just be a bum living on the street? He'd look like any other guy, as seen by your picture, just like any other raving lunatic on the street who thinks he's the son of God or whatever.

I guess so. Or even alternately, maybe Jesus is resurrected, lives like 30 years... and then POOF, suddenly he realizes who he is. Maybe he was a businessman, or a doctor. Would that even make a difference, though?

Candy Kappa
04-10-2017, 03:43 PM
The flaming sword would probably be a give-away.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 03:45 PM
Also is heaven basically a parallel universe or dimension? I mean people used to believe heaven was just in the sky in ancient times when people also thought the world was flat.

Nowadays we take rocket ships up to the moon and know space exists. So where the hell is heaven then? Some sort of alternate dimension?

Utrommaniac
04-10-2017, 04:06 PM
I guess so. Or even alternately, maybe Jesus is resurrected, lives like 30 years... and then POOF, suddenly he realizes who he is. Maybe he was a businessman, or a doctor. Would that even make a difference, though?

Of course, we have to remember that 30 was pretty f*cking old for his time. And yeah, of course he'd be a bum, or working the nearest equivalent to carpentry like before. So...carpenter :P . Or something working minimum wage.

No way he'd be a businessman because he abhorred wealth, MAYBE a doctor, but of the Doctors Without Borders "breed".

Basically, he'd be everything Rich White Christians hate.

snake
04-10-2017, 04:52 PM
It's pretty hard to not believe him if he's coming down from the skies with lights and trumpets for everyone to hear and see.

FredWolfLeonardo
04-10-2017, 05:07 PM
I doubt people would believe him even if he did do miracles. Even in the Bible, the prophets (including Jesus) were rejected due to the arrogance of the people. Moses parted the red sea, and the Israelites still built the Golden Calf and committed Idolatory. Jesus fed thousands and seemed to defy reality, but many still opposed him and threatened him with certain death.

People are more suspectible to ideology rather than miracles. If Jesus came and did miracles today, we would explain it away and not consider him until he adjusts to our standards. I don't think many people would want to stand up for what Jesus did, to remove all attachment from material wealth, even ones family, to dedicate ones life to God.

Fun fact, the Old Testament also places ideology over miracles. In Deuteronomy 13:1-5, it is stated that anyone who preaches Idolatory is not be listened to and given capital punishment, even if he has fufilled miracles that he promised.

Stephen
04-10-2017, 05:11 PM
I doubt people would believe him even if he did do miracles.

There's always the force choke. "I find your lack of faith disturbing"

Cryomancer
04-10-2017, 05:15 PM
Also is heaven basically a parallel universe or dimension? I mean people used to believe heaven was just in the sky in ancient times when people also thought the world was flat.

Nowadays we take rocket ships up to the moon and know space exists. So where the hell is heaven then? Some sort of alternate dimension?

Maybe it works like Dimension X.

Even if Jesus appeared and was proven true people would have a lot of problems with the things he'd do and say. Turns out lots of big Jesus people have like, no idea what the dude was actually about at all. He'd probably see some of those weird megachurches and be like "uh what" and that's when it'd all start...

edit: and OH BOY would it do bad, bad things to the other Abrahamic religions

FredWolfLeonardo
04-10-2017, 05:25 PM
edit: and OH BOY would it do bad, bad things to the other Abrahamic religions

Maybe Judaism, which is one of the smallest religions nowdays, but I don't think it would negatively affect the other Abrahamic religion, Islam.

Cryomancer
04-10-2017, 05:33 PM
By bad things I mean it would make people flip their ****. The moment anything gets even remotely confirmed with on specific religious path, the crazies are gonna get all kinds of worked up.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 05:44 PM
How do religious people explain aliens, or dinosaurs even? Don't they hand wave it away or something?

ToTheNines
04-10-2017, 05:57 PM
It's pretty hard to not believe him if he's coming down from the skies with lights and trumpets for everyone to hear and see.

Right. I'm not a believer at all, but if we're going to have this discussion and assume that Jesus is real, why cherry pick what stays and goes from the Bible?

I'm pretty sure his sole purpose for coming back is to be here to take everyone to heaven during/after the apocalypse. Would be pretty hard to ignore that lol.

I've never actually watched it, but I dig the concept of Left Behind. Only down side is all the other diests would still be here.

How do religious people explain aliens, or dinosaurs even? Don't they hand wave it away or something?

There's no proof of aliens. Not everything you see on Ninja Turtles is real.

mrmaczaps
04-10-2017, 06:05 PM
http://www.bbcweb.ca/bbc/wp-content/uploads/love-matthew-25-homeless-man.jpg

There is a big belief among Christians and Catholics and the like... Jesus died for our sins, and came back to life... and will again, one day.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that they are absolutely right. He's coming back. Hell, maybe he's already here. But let's say he pops up tomorrow, calls up a news station, writes a newspaper, etc.. Who exactly is going to believe him? And how? How could anyone possibly be sure some homeless guy with garbage bag shoes isn't the real deal? Will they "just know"? How?

How is this all supposed to work, exactly?

He will return but he's not going to pop up in secret and hide. Christians will be gone. The world will slip further into turmoil worse than anyone has yet seen. Those that survive the vanishing of His people will be forced to worship satan or be in hiding and or die. Read Revelation. Or you know, attend a church service. Or if neither of those appeal to you, read the Left Behind book series. While not likely accurate, its a on example of a possibility that would answer some of these questions.

oldmanwinters
04-10-2017, 06:06 PM
I am a believer in the Christian gospel, and Jesus himself had a word that's just as true today as it was in the 1st century:
But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+16:29-31


Jesus said it is better for those who believe in him even without the advantage of his physical presence and the eye-witnessing of miracles:
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
http://biblehub.com/john/20-29.htm


Later in the New Testament, Paul echoes Jesus and writes that the preaching of the Gospel is sufficient to result in true belief:
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?[a] And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2010:13-17

IndigoErth
04-10-2017, 06:09 PM
He'd be way too liberal to be believed in this day and age.

Too much of the Right (* U.S. perspective) wouldn't willingly cling to him and believe him if he didn't come in preaching danger and threats to their way of life and vilifying others who supposedly want to take that away. And many of those on the Left would take up the logical angle of picking apart the details to try to figure this man out. Although if he speaks for their own humanitarian values, that the Right doesn't seem to stand for anymore, they (the Left) might be more willing to respect him, if not buying the messiah claims.

But in this day and age he'd need to get on tv to even get any notice, and too often good people don't make it into the news. So if he can't perform miracles, then either he's ignored and few to none hear about him, or he isn't so good after all and gets all over the news...

Really though, it does make me wonder at times what he'd think of the values and priorities of the (American) Ultra Right who claim to align themselves with him. (How?)

mrmaczaps
04-10-2017, 06:12 PM
He'd be way too liberal to be believed in this day and age.

Too much of the Right (* U.S. perspective) wouldn't willingly cling to him and believe him if he didn't come in preaching danger and threats to their way of life and vilifying others who supposedly want to take that away. And many of those on the Left would take up the logical angle of picking apart the details to try to figure this man out. Although if he speaks for their own values, that the Right doesn't seem to stand for anymore, they (the Left) might be more willing to respect him, if not buying the messiah claims.

But in this day and age he'd need to get on tv to even get any notice, and too often good people don't make it into the news. So if he can't perform miracles, then either he's ignored and few to none hear about him, or he isn't so good after all and gets all over the news...

Really though, it does make me wonder at times what he'd think of the values and priorities of the (American) Ultra Right who claim to align themselves with him. (How?)

You're assuming He would be coming to hang out or whatever and live a bit. Which wouldn't be the case. He has a final push coming for people to believe in Him and live forever. Plenty of false prophets and mayhem and death and destruction, all for the sake of men to say they know better than Jesus.

(Not fully directed just at you. Lots of the posts seem to assume He would come back to hang out or live life first...)

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 06:40 PM
So if I'm following this right, anyone who doesn't worship Jesus or Christianity will burn in Hell for all eternity?

Man, that hardly seems fair. That's basically saying, "If you're not with us you deserve to die and rot in eternal torment." But considering all these religions were created in ancient times, it doesn't surprise me.

Powder
04-10-2017, 06:43 PM
We don't even believe in things that science proves to be true, so I doubt he'd be well received.

But hey if someone wants to take me to a realm of peace, I'm here.

mrmaczaps
04-10-2017, 07:28 PM
So if I'm following this right, anyone who doesn't worship Jesus or Christianity will burn in Hell for all eternity?

Man, that hardly seems fair. That's basically saying, "If you're not with us you deserve to die and rot in eternal torment." But considering all these religions were created in ancient times, it doesn't surprise me.

Actually, we all deserve hell but have the choice to not go by believing that Jesus died for our sins.... Every person has a choice. Its a free gift. Believing in Him doesn't make us perfect but forgiven. Life isn't fair and God certainly doesn't want for ANYONE to perish/die in the lake of fire/hell. Free will is wonderful.

I'm guessing this thread was posted because Easter?

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 07:34 PM
Actually, we all deserve hell but have the choice to not go by believing that Jesus died for our sins.... Every person has a choice. Its a free gift. Believing in Him doesn't make us perfect but forgiven. Life isn't fair and God certainly doesn't want for ANYONE to perish/die in the lake of fire/hell. Free will is wonderful.

Yeah...I don't get it. Basically everyone should die unless they believe in the same thing.

Andrew NDB
04-10-2017, 07:34 PM
So if I'm following this right, anyone who doesn't worship Jesus or Christianity will burn in Hell for all eternity?

Yeah. Imagine if you were castaway on an island as a baby all by yourself, lived your whole life there miserably, then died... then get to spend all of eternity burning in hell because you had no idea you were supposed to believe all that stuff.

FredWolfLeonardo
04-10-2017, 07:37 PM
Yeah. Imagine if you were castaway on an island as a baby all by yourself, lived your whole life there miserably, then died... then get to spend all of eternity burning in hell because you had no idea you were supposed to believe all that stuff.

Some people believe this, no joke. Even after Jesus' crucifixion, there were millions who never knew. If we are talking about an absolute and universal religion, it would make much more sense for it to be based on a deity who can be observed and reasoned by everyone regardless of time, culture, place etc.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 07:41 PM
So is this why people try to spread Christianity, because they think they're "saving people" from a life of eternal torment in Hell?

I mean all the Asian countries didn't believe in Jesus till all the white Europeans tried to convert them.

FredWolfLeonardo
04-10-2017, 07:47 PM
So is this why people try to spread Christianity, because they think they're "saving people" from a life of eternal torment in Hell?

I mean all the Asian countries didn't believe in Jesus till all the white Europeans tried to convert them.

Pretty much. I don't mean to offend anyone, but that's one of the reasons I don't buy Christianity as it currently is in terms of doctrines and beliefs.

I am religious, but I see it as a waste of time to try and convert others. No matter how hard I try, I am not changing anyones beliefs as its up to everyone to embrace the truth on their own, willingly. Atleast that's what I believe in: Individual Responsibility.

IndigoErth
04-10-2017, 07:50 PM
Let me bring the popcorn in now, because this thing prob isn't gonna last long.


http://i.imgur.com/4FcJIAi.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/f630dd9d8a9390558f7c9c4225ccac34/tumblr_mwu2swyJDC1slkacvo1_400.gif

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 07:54 PM
I don't even understand religion. I understand believing in some higher being like God or whatever, but the people who basically want others to die just because they don't think what you think is pathetic.

It's ironic. These are the same Christian Soccer Moms who complain franchises like TMNT, Pokemon, Harry Potter, etc. are "satanic" and brainwash children, yet they go around believing people will burn in hell unless they think like they do.

Anyone see the irony here? Liking kids cartoons is "satanic" but they want everyone to burn in Hell? They goddamn ruined my precious Saturday Morning cartoons.

FredWolfLeonardo
04-10-2017, 07:56 PM
Cubed, didn't you say you were raised Jewish? Just curious, do you believe in any of your faith and attend the services with your family?

Andrew NDB
04-10-2017, 08:07 PM
It's ironic. These are the same Christian Soccer Moms who complain franchises like TMNT, Pokemon, Harry Potter, etc. are "satanic" and brainwash children, yet they go around believing people will burn in hell unless they think like they do.

Anyone see the irony here? Liking kids cartoons is "satanic" but they want everyone to burn in Hell? They goddamn ruined my precious Saturday Morning cartoons.

To bring it around to TMNT, they undeniably ruined the original movie franchise. Or at least the studios and financiers that kowtowed to them beginning with TMNT 2.

Katie
04-10-2017, 08:12 PM
Somehow I think you'd just know.


Anywho, I'm Christian. I don't like this hard right turn that Evangelical Christianity has taken and I don't like that now all Christians are lumped in with them.

Yes there were dinosaurs and evolution is real. Science is real. The universe is BILLIONS of years old.

The bible is NOT the literal Word. Its a collection of morality stories written by MEN to further their agendas. I believe there are a few nuggets of the Word in there still, but mostly its been perverted as things were added and copied.

Jesus was all about helping the poor, the outcast, the untouchables. He didn't say God helps those that help themselves. He wanted us to lift up those that couldn't lift themselves.

I think he'd be pretty disappointed in how his teaching has been perverted in the modern day, used as a reason to separate and discriminate. That's not what he wanted....but look at all the sanctimonious Believers.

I say action speaks louder than sanctimonious words.

Andrew NDB
04-10-2017, 08:15 PM
Maybe we're supposed to be the ones to resurrect Jesus this go-around? Maybe some blood can be extracted from the Spear of Destiny and we can clone him. Hard to deny a Jesus Clone.

But would he be Jesus, or Jesuus? Points if you get the reference

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 08:16 PM
I think he'd be pretty disappointed in how his teaching has been perverted in the modern day, used as a reason to separate and discriminate. That's not what he wanted....but look at all the sanctimonious Believers.

I say action speaks louder than sanctimonious words.

It's pretty obvious most people turn religion into some kind of cult-like following, Katie. That's why there's chanting, prayers, and people gathered together at places like Churches or temples to stand around and worship together. Also believing in some higher being probably makes some people feel better about their selves, as in they hope their life improves so they think some God will help them.

In any case your version of religion is fine, but others take things way too far.

ToTheNines
04-10-2017, 08:22 PM
Maybe we're supposed to be the ones to resurrect Jesus this go-around? Maybe some blood can be extracted from the Spear of Destiny and we can clone him. Hard to deny a Jesus Clone.

But would he be Jesus, or Jesuus? Points if you get the reference

Lol, I do. You're a ****ing nerd.

Katie
04-10-2017, 08:30 PM
It's pretty obvious most people turn religion into some kind of cult-like following, Katie. That's why there's chanting, prayers, and people gathered together at places like Churches or temples to stand around and worship together. Also believing in some higher being probably makes some people feel better about their selves, as in they hope their life improves so they think some God will help them.

In any case your version of religion is fine, but others take things way too far.

And they are wrong. Not even Christians. Hell, maybe this hard right evangelist/fundamentalist movement is being directed by the anti-Christ. It has all the hallmarks. Political power, devoted base, people who cloak themselves with marks and signs and symbols.

I don't think any real Christian uses their faith as an excuse to hold themselves above anyone. Anyone who does is not a true Christian

ToTheNines
04-10-2017, 08:30 PM
The bible is NOT the literal Word. Its a collection of morality stories written by MEN to further their agendas. I believe there are a few nuggets of the Word in there still, but mostly its been perverted as things were added and copied.


https://cdn-webimages.wimages.net/0511b9a01541009226885f70cdb1e6a3e20559-wm.jpg

And they are wrong. Not even Christians. Hell, maybe this hard right evangelist/fundamentalist movement is being directed by the anti-Christ. It has all the hallmarks. Political power, devoted base, people who cloak themselves with marks and signs and symbols.

I don't think any real Christian uses their faith as an excuse to hold themselves above anyone. Anyone who does is not a true Christian

If you weren't a woman, PC would hit you with a "no true Scotsman" here.

IndigoErth
04-10-2017, 08:32 PM
Jesuus

Great, I don't know if it was the intended reference, but now I'm picturing Jesuus Subprime and the image people know of is just an android that will return and reveal itself, à la 2012 Irma.

I'm sorry, Christians...

ToTheNines
04-10-2017, 08:33 PM
It's Star Wars, not Turtles.

IndigoErth
04-10-2017, 08:34 PM
Okay.

But I made it better.



https://cdn-webimages.wimages.net/0511b9a01541009226885f70cdb1e6a3e20559-wm.jpg
*grabs my fave so they can't have him*

*realizes I just touched him and therefor doomed him*

Damn this evil woman magic.

mrmaczaps
04-10-2017, 08:59 PM
I don't even understand religion. I understand believing in some higher being like God or whatever, but the people who basically want others to die just because they don't think what you think is pathetic.

It's ironic. These are the same Christian Soccer Moms who complain franchises like TMNT, Pokemon, Harry Potter, etc. are "satanic" and brainwash children, yet they go around believing people will burn in hell unless they think like they do.

Anyone see the irony here? Liking kids cartoons is "satanic" but they want everyone to burn in Hell? They goddamn ruined my precious Saturday Morning cartoons.

You're confused. We tell people Jesus saves so you don't have to die & burn in hell. Its why people talk about it. Its why I invite friends to church.

And some of the content in cartoons is satanic. Look at this season of the Turtles toon. Raising Shredder from the dead by the unholy power of a dragon looking demon?

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 09:00 PM
You're confused. We tell people Jesus saves so you don't have to die & burn in hell. Its why people talk about it. Its why I invite friends to church.

And some of the content in cartoons is satanic. Look at this season of the Turtles toon. Raising Shredder from the dead but the u holy power of a dragon looking demon?

LOL...what? This is a parody post, right?

mrmaczaps
04-10-2017, 09:01 PM
Somehow I think you'd just know.


Anywho, I'm Christian. I don't like this hard right turn that Evangelical Christianity has taken and I don't like that now all Christians are lumped in with them.

Yes there were dinosaurs and evolution is real. Science is real. The universe is BILLIONS of years old.

The bible is NOT the literal Word. Its a collection of morality stories written by MEN to further their agendas. I believe there are a few nuggets of the Word in there still, but mostly its been perverted as things were added and copied.

Jesus was all about helping the poor, the outcast, the untouchables. He didn't say God helps those that help themselves. He wanted us to lift up those that couldn't lift themselves.

I think he'd be pretty disappointed in how his teaching has been perverted in the modern day, used as a reason to separate and discriminate. That's not what he wanted....but look at all the sanctimonious Believers.

I say action speaks louder than sanctimonious words.

Not much of a Christian if you don't believe the Bible as being the Word of God. It is actually the literal Word.

FredWolfLeonardo
04-10-2017, 09:04 PM
Not much of a Christian if you don't believe the Bible as being the Word of God. It is actually the literal Word.

Although, I'm not Christian myself (at least not a Trinitarian), I appreciate Christians who stand up for what they believe in. It takes steel guts to stand by the Bible as the ultimate authority and not be ashamed of it.

mrmaczaps
04-10-2017, 09:04 PM
LOL...what? This is a parody post, right?

Nope. I'm Christian, I don't want my friends to die and go to hell. Kind of makes being a feiend kind of weak to WANT that... so thats why I tell people. Then once you know, its your choice. YOU decide for you.

You can bring a horse to water, but can't make him drink... so you know and if you choose not to believe, thats on you. Not me or anyone else who has told you.

MsMarvelDuckie
04-10-2017, 09:06 PM
Actually, we all deserve hell but have the choice to not go by believing that Jesus died for our sins.... Every person has a choice. Its a free gift. Believing in Him doesn't make us perfect but forgiven. Life isn't fair and God certainly doesn't want for ANYONE to perish/die in the lake of fire/hell. Free will is wonderful.

I'm guessing this thread was posted because Easter?


*sigh* Yeah every person in the world who is not a card-carryong believer- including those who never evwn HEARD of thw man or the Word, is reason enough for them to be cast down into a lake of fire by default. And this is from a "LOVING" deity? Sorry I can't buy that for one minute. Faith is meant to come from the heart and to lift us out of despair, not be force-fed and treated as some special "free pass" out of damnation or whatever.



Yeah...I don't get it. Basically everyone should die unless they believe in the same thing.


Pretty much. Now you know why I practice what I do. It makes SOOO much more sense.


Yeah. Imagine if you were castaway on an island as a baby all by yourself, lived your whole life there miserably, then died... then get to spend all of eternity burning in hell because you had no idea you were supposed to believe all that stuff.


Yeah, this.


Somehow I think you'd just know.

Anywho, I'm Christian. I don't like this hard right turn that Evangelical Christianity has taken and I don't like that now all Christians are lumped in with them.

Yes there were dinosaurs and evolution is real. Science is real. The universe is BILLIONS of years old.

The bible is NOT the literal Word. Its a collection of morality stories written by MEN to further their agendas. I believe there are a few nuggets of the Word in there still, but mostly its been perverted as things were added and copied.

Jesus was all about helping the poor, the outcast, the untouchables. He didn't say God helps those that help themselves. He wanted us to lift up those that couldn't lift themselves.

I think he'd be pretty disappointed in how his teaching has been perverted in the modern day, used as a reason to separate and discriminate. That's not what he wanted....but look at all the sanctimonious Believers.

I say action speaks louder than sanctimonious words.


Not a Christian, but I agree with all of this. It is the vwry reason I left that faith and qent searching for sonething I could actually accept and embrace.


Maybe we're supposed to be the ones to resurrect Jesus this go-around? Maybe some blood can be extracted from the Spear of Destiny and we can clone him. Hard to deny a Jesus Clone.

But would he be Jesus, or Jesuus? Points if you get the reference


So.... Jesus was a Jedi? But the Jedi clones were a insane.....


Lol, I do. You're a ****ing nerd.


Guess we BOTH are lol!


Okay.

But I made it better.



*grabs my fave so they can't have him*

*realizes I just touched him and therefor doomed him*

Damn this evil woman magic.


LOL!! Don't worry that was under OT law. I believe Jesus was supposed to have reformed the Jewish law (ie Christianity) and cast that stuff out. You (and Leo) should be safe!

mrmaczaps
04-10-2017, 09:07 PM
Although, I'm not Christian myself, I appreciate Christians who stand up for what they believe in. It takes guts to stand by the Bible and not be ashamed of it.

I'm certainly not perfect, but here I am in a forum thats typically very anti-God anything and very left leaning. In the last week alone, I've blocked more than a few folks for harassing me on various threads. But it doesn't matter.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 09:20 PM
Nope. I'm Christian, I don't want my friends to die and go to hell. Kind of makes being a feiend kind of weak to WANT that... so thats why I tell people. Then once you know, its your choice. YOU decide for you.

You can bring a horse to water, but can't make him drink... so you know and if you choose not to believe, thats on you. Not me or anyone else who has told you.

So you seriously believe of the what...literally millions of people in the world who don't celebrate Christianity or Jesus, as well as the billions of people who have already been long dead throughout human history....you think all these peoples souls are burning in hell?

What about cavemen existing in ancient times before religion was invented? Are they burning in hell too because of something that never existed when they lived until thousands of years later?

Prowler
04-10-2017, 09:25 PM
I didn't read the full thread yet so I might be repeating stuff already said.

Bearing that in mind, I'd say that, first of all, no one would believe him pretty much. By "no one" I mean, 95% of people. He'd just be another "wacko" and I'm sure many of them believe to be Jesus. That or they'd assume him to be a scammer or some marketing trick.

So yeah, I don't think so. But a better question would be, how would he feel about today's world? Considering all the stuff they've done to honour him I think he'd be delighted. Not to mention all the ass he'd pull, man. Seriously, bitches love Jesus... well they're usually old or from Latin America but you get my drift. He'd pull some tail. Also, Jesus would be a metalhead and NOTHING could convince me of otherwise.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8a/43/28/8a43282e49a7eeb358196a62e93644e1.jpg

mrmaczaps
04-10-2017, 09:27 PM
So you seriously believe of the what...literally millions of people in the world who don't celebrate Christianity or Jesus, as well as the billions of people who have already been long dead throughout human history....you think all these peoples souls are burning in hell?

What about cavemen existing in ancient times before religion was invented? Are they burning in hell too because of something that never existed when they lived until thousands of years later?

Anyone who doesn't know Jesus as their Savior before they die, ends up in hell. Be it that they live under a rock, in the vacuum of space or they think they are their own god. Thats why Jesus commanded the disiples to go telling on the mountain. And since I do actually believe the Bible, God created Adam and then Eve and they believed in Him. Then there was the flood, and Noah and his whole family believed in Him. The world isn't nearly as old as some would have everyone believe.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? This is fun, because God created both at the same time!

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 09:29 PM
Anyone who doesn't know Jesus as their Savior before they die, ends up in hell. Be it that they live under a rock, in the vacuum of space or they think they are their own god.

Wow. Now I know Christianity has some cult-like following.

I guess the rest of the human race is doomed. We have to all burn in hell just because we don't believe in the same thing. Sounds like the same thing Hitler wanted when he did the genocide and killed millions of people out of hate.

Prowler
04-10-2017, 09:33 PM
Wow. Now I know Christianity has some cult-like following.

I guess the rest of the human race is doomed. We have to all burn in hell just because we don't believe in the same thing. Sounds like the same thing Hitler wanted when he did the genocide and killed millions of people out of hate.
I'm an Atheist as it gets, but I wouldn't think of mrmaczaps as your best representative of Christians or religious people in general. Notice how he is the only Christian so far ITT saying that kind of stuff?

FredWolfLeonardo
04-10-2017, 09:35 PM
So you seriously believe of the what...literally millions of people in the world who don't celebrate Christianity or Jesus, as well as the billions of people who have already been long dead throughout human history....you think all these peoples souls are burning in hell?

What about cavemen existing in ancient times before religion was invented? Are they burning in hell too because of something that never existed when they lived until thousands of years later?

I can't speak for him as I don't have his beliefs personally but me personally:

Religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are relative to time and place but God is an absolute, immaterial truth that can be sensed and reasoned by all people of all eras since it transcends time and space.

So in order to fulfill their purpose and achieve absolute peace, every person who is capable of reasoning has the choice to believe in God, no excuses and no exceptions. If they choose to defy the lord, their loss.

Everyone knows about the existence of the supreme being innately, but not everyone makes the right choice to believe, so every capable person is given a fair chance in life. Thats why the Bible tells people to believe in God and have faith rather than proving his existence, because a mere book cannot prove his existence, only point towards it.

mrmaczaps
04-10-2017, 09:36 PM
I'm an Atheist as it gets, but I wouldn't think of mrmaczaps as your best representative of Christians or religious people in general. Notice how he is the only Christian so far ITT saying that kind of stuff?

You don't HAVE to burn in hell, but Jesus IS the ONLY way. I'm sorry you only know happy go lucky, believe whatever you want and still go to heaven when you die type Christians. They are doing you a deadly disservice.

Prowler
04-10-2017, 09:37 PM
These threads never end well.

Anyway, I might as well chime in and say:

Religious beliefs, or the lack of them, don't make anyone a better/worse person. Anyone can claim to believe in something. Just like so many people talk about respect and being nice to others... but then don't even follow their own advice themselves.

Being a decent human being is just common sense.

You don't HAVE to burn in hell, but Jesus IS the ONLY way. I'm sorry you only know happy go lucky, believe whatever you want and still go to heaven when you die type Christians. They are doing you a deadly disservice.

I guess Westboro Church Christians are more real eh?

mrmaczaps
04-10-2017, 09:38 PM
I can't speak for him as I don't have his beliefs personally but me personally:

Religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are relative to time and place but God is an absolute, immaterial truth that can be sensed and reasoned by all people of all eras since it transcends time and space.

So in order to fulfill their purpose and achieve absolute peace, every person who is capable of reasoning has the choice to believe in God, no excuses and no exceptions.

Everyone knows about the existence of the supreme being innately, but not everyone makes the right choice to believe, so every capable person is given a fair chance in life. If they choose to defy the lord, their loss.

Islam is of satan. Believe in that and you're in trouble anyways. The Jews are Gods chosen people and after the Christians are removed at the Rapture, even the bulk of the Jews will convert to Christianity before the Second Coming.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 09:38 PM
You don't HAVE to burn in hell, but Jesus IS the ONLY way. I'm sorry you only know happy go lucky, believe whatever you want and still go to heaven when you die type Christians. They are doing you a deadly disservice.

Why is Jesus the only way? Just because of some things old people taught you growing up when you were a child? I mean if you weren't raised this way you wouldn't think this right now.

This makes it sound like half the human race is doomed. So Christians hate all non-Christians. Kind of spiteful if you ask me.

Prowler
04-10-2017, 09:39 PM
Islam is of satan. Believe in that and you're in trouble anyways. The Jews are Gods chosen people and after the Christians are removed at the Rapture, even the bulk of the Jews will convert to Christianity before the Second Coming.
That's your argument for being pro-Israel?

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 09:39 PM
Islam is of satan. Believe in that and you're in trouble anyways. The Jews are Gods chosen people and after the Christians are removed at the Rapture, even the bulk of the Jews will convert to Christianity before the Second Coming.

:lol:

Oh boy. I can't even respond to this one.

Prowler
04-10-2017, 09:40 PM
:lol:

Oh boy. I can't even respond to this one.
Cubed, he says you're a God chosen person. Be happy.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 09:40 PM
Cubed, he says you're a God chosen person. Be happy.

Do they have TMNT in heaven? I hope so. :lol:

mrmaczaps
04-10-2017, 09:41 PM
Why is Jesus the only way? Just because of some things old people taught you growing up when you were a child? I mean if you weren't raised this way you wouldn't think this right now.

This makes it sound like half the human race is doomed. So Christians hate all non-Christians. Kind of spiteful if you ask me.

Cubed, I've only been a Christian for 10 years or so now. It wasn't force fed to me as a child. I did run and play during Sunday School on the occasion I did go to church with friends or exfended family though.

I'm not sure where you see hate in choice, but you can think what you want.

CyberCubed
04-10-2017, 09:43 PM
I'm not sure where you see hate in choice, but you can think what you want.

It's hate because there are millions of people in the world who either don't care about religion in general or practice something else, and according to Christians like yourselves, they "deserve" to burn in hell and be tortured for all eternity...just for that.

So the nice little old lady down the street who bakes chocolate chip cookies for kids and brings them to school will burn in agony if she doesn't like or care about Jesus. Oh that poor woman.

Prowler
04-10-2017, 09:43 PM
Do they have TMNT in heaven? I hope so. :lol:
If there aren't video games, tmnt and other properties like it and heavy metal music then Heaven must suck.

Cubed, I've only been a Christian for 10 years or so now. It wasn't force fed to me as a child. I did run and play during Sunday School on the occasion I did go to church with friends or exfended family though.

I'm not sure where you see hate in choice, but you can think what you want.
No hate? You're always raging about "liberals" or whatever.

IndigoErth
04-10-2017, 09:51 PM
LOL!! Don't worry that was under OT law. I believe Jesus was supposed to have reformed the Jewish law (ie Christianity) and cast that stuff out. You (and Leo) should be safe!
:D:lol: Phew!








I dunno... to each there own and I respect people to believe what they do, but I have little respect for the pompous attitude of some, shall we say, main stream religious sorts. I realize it is probably the religion(s) and its church community that teaches that, and maybe they don't personally mean to sound that way since they are basically reading a dialogue drilled into their heads, but it can be a bit insulting as it belittles other people's right to know best for themselves.

And even in the pseudo politeness of "it's up to you now that I told you," not everyone wants to be "told" for the millionth time in the first place. Most people coming from our collective cultures have already heard it time and time again... We aren't some idiots who just stumbled out of the woods and need to be evangelized immediately; kind of insulting to people's intelligence. If people want something... they will seek it out themselves.


I mean... what if I wanted to repeatedly "share" the good news of unicorns, out of "love," and ensure that no one ever hears the end of it because I want to save them from a fate of being stomped to death for all eternity by unicorns for not accepting them as a real thing. How soon would people get tired of the unicorn preaching if they don't share a belief in unicorns and have no interest in accepting them?



Do they have TMNT in heaven? I hope so. :lol:
Like as entertainment or actual TMNT?

Because look... if people have to sit around bored forever in some afterlife, then at the very least those Turtles may as well exist in some alternate universe and will meet us there after they croak as well. :P With some 'afterlife' thing being some other dimensional gray area between universes. Or at least that's what I wish happened. lol

mrmaczaps
04-10-2017, 09:54 PM
It's hate because there are millions of people in the world who either don't care about religion in general or practice something else, and according to Christians like yourselves, they "deserve" to burn in hell and be tortured for all eternity...just for that.

So the nice little old lady down the street who bakes chocolate chip cookies for kids and brings them to school will burn in agony if she doesn't like or care about Jesus. Oh that poor woman.

Nice isn't enough to get into heaven. Being sinless is. As sinful people, everyone, the only way to get to Heaven is through knowledge & love of Jesus. Believing He died for your sins. God gave us all a way to come to Him, if you choose not to, thats your choice not "hate".

MsMarvelDuckie
04-10-2017, 09:59 PM
To quote Nancy from "The Craft"- are we having a theological discussion here?

Ah a chicken/egg debate! I love these! IF one believes the Bible literally, it is clear that Genesis follows the path of evolution. First the fish in the seas were created then creatures of the land and finally birds in the air. Since fish lay eggs, the egg came first- by two whole days!

As for the premise of Jesus being "the only way"- Im surprised you didn't mention that that applies OBLY to those born AFTER he was resurrected. Everyone before that was covered under the OLD Laws. How is it that a non-Christain like me knows that and so many who ARE, don't? I've read that book front to back and was raised Christian, so I am well aware of what it SAYS. However it is full of contradictions and inconsistancies, and even errors. For instance, the original line that "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" is a mistranslation of a word that neant poisoner. Because even the kings of the Hebrew people had sooth-sayers and omen-readers as advisors. They fully accepted powers and miracles of the divine/supernatural as real and made use of them.

CyberCubed
04-11-2017, 12:35 AM
http://orig13.deviantart.net/f2f4/f/2012/005/1/6/praise_jebus_by_semereliif-d4ldhs3.png

Coola Yagami
04-11-2017, 12:44 AM
History would repeat itself. Just like Jesus was accused of being a false prophet and a fake messiah and was crucified, in modern day he'd be considered a horribly blasphemous Jesus impersonator and be killed again. Only this time it would be by the very same overzealous bible thumpers that were ironically waiting for His return to begin with.

I guess in a way, Jesus/God wants you to believe without Him having to perform miracles left and right. It makes things harder for Him, and that is what led to his crucifixion since He chose not to perform miracles in front of his accusers. I assume in the heavily cynical modern day unless he performs miracles, not many people are going to believe Him and accuse him of being a fake.

Heaven is kinda like am alternate dimension/reality that only our souls can access, after death. We can fly spaceships all over the place, our living mortal bodies will never be able to see it.

Andrew NDB
04-11-2017, 01:31 AM
This thread has been very enlightening.

CyberCubed
04-11-2017, 02:16 AM
If anything this thread proves whose religious and who isn't.

I don't really care much about religion one way or the other, but I understand why people like or believe in what they do. I just don't like the overly religious people who do things in a cult-like manner and look down or crucify others and say they will burn in hell for all eternity.

Sounds like something you'd see in a bad horror movie from the 1950's.

ProactiveMan
04-11-2017, 03:02 AM
I read a book about this very premise when I was a kid. It was called Joshua, and it was about JC coming back to Earth in the 80s (when it was written) and living as an itinerant carpenter. He helped out a bunch of people in a small American town and then got into some kind of political trouble. I don't remember much else about it, but I think there was a whole series of those books.

Someone like that may have had a chance in the early 80s, but that's about the limit. Nowadays especially, no one is going to listen to anyone telling them that they can't have whatever they want, whenever they want it.

Wildcat
04-11-2017, 03:03 AM
I consider myself religious but not over the top. I do believe in God/Jesus and we certainly celebrate Christmas and Easter.

I've always been catholic but we don't live by the exact word of the Bible or anything like that. We just lead normal lives. We don't always go to to church but we do pray and have some religious items around the house.

I don't consider Catholicism/Christianity to be the "right" religion. I would never criticize anyone else's beliefs. I've thought about it and who's to say they're not all right in some way? What if God purposely portrayed himself in different ways to different people?

I hate when people claim God/Jesus to be someone awful that will punish you for sins and stuff like that.

Ya know the move The Mist? (yes I know it's based on a book) There's that woman that keeps preaching God is angry and sending out monsters. At one point one of the guys turns to her and says...hey I believe in God too...I just don't think he's the @-hole you make him out to be.

I love that line. That's pretty much how I feel.

Katie
04-11-2017, 05:39 AM
I believe this too. I think the supreme being, which I chose to worship as a Christian, is the same across all religions. At their root, every one says we should be kind to one another and treat others with respect. Maybe all the different religions were just His/Her way of connecting with the many different cultures and people out there.

If Jesus really wants to check on the state of the flock, he should come back as a super minority in the United States. A latino gay man....or a black transwoman....or something like that. Then he could easily see which of his followers is truely upholding his command to love everyone, don't judge, and help the outcast and downtrodden.

mrmaczaps
04-11-2017, 06:17 AM
I consider myself religious but not over the top. I do believe in God/Jesus and we certainly celebrate Christmas and Easter.

I've always been catholic but we don't live by the exact word of the Bible or anything like that. We just lead normal lives. We don't always go to to church but we do pray and have some religious items around the house.

I don't consider Catholicism/Christianity to be the "right" religion. I would never criticize anyone else's beliefs. I've thought about it and who's to say they're not all right in some way? What if God purposely portrayed himself in different ways to different people?

I hate when people claim God/Jesus to be someone awful that will punish you for sins and stuff like that.

Ya know the move The Mist? (yes I know it's based on a book) There's that woman that keeps preaching God is angry and sending out monsters. At one point one of the guys turns to her and says...hey I believe in God too...I just don't think he's the @-hole you make him out to be.

I love that line. That's pretty much how I feel.

If you don't believe the Bible 100% then you can call yourself Christian but you aren't. Its like saying you're white if you're anything but. If anyone doesn't believe, they are in fact chosing themselves tk go to hell when they die.

Its like giving someone a gun and saying you can choose to set it down (follow Jesus) or you can shoot yourself in the face (do whatever you want because its your life).

Jesus won't be coming back as anything else other than the right hand of God and the only thing He will be doing then is defeating satan and setting up Heaven on Earth. Speculation otherwise is moot as His plan is already laid out. He isn't coming back to chill in middle America or anything else "made up" for this post.

Candy Kappa
04-11-2017, 06:54 AM
I would love to see Jesus' reaction to that the majority of his followers are using the very instrument used to his demise. Sure, according to Bible continuity it was planned, but being human/demigod that **** gotta hurt. Better yet, some even have crosses with a tiny Jesus on.

"Thanks guys, I really needed a reminder of that..."

ToTheNines
04-11-2017, 07:23 AM
Islam is of satan. Believe in that and you're in trouble anyways. The Jews are Gods chosen people and after the Christians are removed at the Rapture, even the bulk of the Jews will convert to Christianity before the Second Coming.

They probably say the same thing about you. They also have "Jannah" (hell) and "Shaitan" (Satan). Abraham, Jesus and others are in the Quran.


Which came first, the chicken or the egg? This is fun, because God created both at the same time!

The dinosaurs predate any fowl.

If you don't believe the Bible 100% then you can call yourself Christian but you aren't.

This is not true, you and I both know that. Even the most hardcore fundamentalists know to call BS on plenty of scripture.

Gouge out your left eye and cast it away if you check out another woman? I sure don't see many Christians with eye patches.

Gay dudes should be put to death? C'mon, now. I'm sure you believe that, but you don't actually go around doing it because you know it's wrong, despite what the Bible says.

Bring 2 turtles to your priest on the 8th day of your menstrual cycle or be stoned to death? That's gotta be the oldest documented case of trolling. One of Cubed's ancestors probably wrote Leviticus.

Utrommaniac
04-11-2017, 07:28 AM
Not to mention the fact that a menstruating woman would be sequestered away in her home through the entire duration, save for the turtle sacrifice. (Why turtles???)

I would be screwed in that situation, since my last two have lasted well over three weeks thanks to a fibroid.

Candy Kappa
04-11-2017, 07:40 AM
Nowadays you don't need to do animal sacrifices, though. Since according to scripture it's forbidden to do sacrifices outside of the Holy Temple in Jersualem, which is in ruins. And until it's been fixed all sacrifices are on hold.

Unless you're a Samaritan, since they don't prescribe to the Holy Temple rules and still do sacrifices at Mount Gerizim

Raven
04-11-2017, 08:17 AM
They probably say the same thing about you. They also have "Jannah" (hell) and "Shaitan" (Satan). Abraham, Jesus and others are in the Quran.

They may


This is not true, you and I both know that. Even the most hardcore fundamentalists know to call BS on plenty of scripture.

Gouge out your left eye and cast it away if you check out another woman? I sure don't see many Christians with eye patches.

Gay dudes should be put to death? C'mon, now. I'm sure you believe that, but you don't actually go around doing it because you know it's wrong, despite what the Bible says.

Bring 2 turtles to your priest on the 8th day of your menstrual cycle or be stoned to death? That's gotta be the oldest documented case of trolling. One of Cubed's ancestors probably wrote Leviticus.

Many of these scriptures from Leviticus are under the old covenant, When Jesus came and was crucified He also established a new covenant for His followers. We are not bound to the old, such as not eating meat or other pre-established mandates that were for the Israelites (God's chosen people). The law was put in place to show that the Israelites were unable to save themselves through works, that no matter how hard they tried they were always going to mess up. Thus showing that we are in need of a savior, God himself.

The old testament is written as a historical account of what happened and how things transpired. As in the new testament is written for us today in how we live out our lives as Christ showed us. while many of the scriptures are quoted from the old by the writers of the gospel, they explain how we are to live by these under Jesus new covenant.

The laws were established in three different forms, Gods holy law, social and I forget the other. Such things as not eating raw meat is common sense to us now but had to be forbidden for ancient times for a group of people who just got out of slavery and were now expected to thrive on their own (Through God). So some laws were more for the times, while others were for social awareness (Such as stealing, our common laws).

Animal sacrifices under the gospel are done away with either way, as Jesus was the final sacrifices for all our sins. Which is greatly tied to the old testament and His laws, and why we no longer serve under the old covenant but now under Jesus new covenant.

Raven
04-11-2017, 08:23 AM
Why is Jesus the only way? Just because of some things old people taught you growing up when you were a child? I mean if you weren't raised this way you wouldn't think this right now.

This makes it sound like half the human race is doomed. So Christians hate all non-Christians. Kind of spiteful if you ask me.

Hate non-Christians? Why would be try to go and share the message of eternal life through God's son Jesus Christs then so they can share in the same gift we have been given? Wouldn't it be the other way? Wouldn't we keep it to ourselves, in reality the Israelite should have kept it to themselves and never shared it with the gentile nations under your assumption.

Why is Jesus the only way?

John 14:6 answers this.
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

This was brought up by Peter when he asked, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

As a follower of Christ (Christian) our belief is established in the foundation that Jesus came to reconcile us back to the father (God). Therefor there is no other way, except through Christ himself.

Raven
04-11-2017, 09:10 AM
Because even the kings of the Hebrew people had sooth-sayers and omen-readers as advisors. They fully accepted powers and miracles of the divine/supernatural as real and made use of them.

And did we forget that what 90% of these kings did evil in the eyes of the Lord God?

Again, the old testament is a series of events documented to show the coming of Christ the son. Many of the kings in Chronicles and Kings fully shows the kings of Isreal doing many evil actions and leading the nation of God's chosen people away from Him. They were to only follow one God (Yahweh), but many kings such as the first king, Saul defiled God's law and was punished for it. (Being one of the examples of those that sought out sooth-sayers and such).

But one perfect example would be King Ahab, who married the Baal priestess Jezebel. King Ahab brought in false idols and forced the Israelite to worship the god Baal, so God sent His prophet Elijah to stop the rains and cause a drought across the land. (Baal was the god of rain, lighting ect.)

Just because they engaged in these practices does not mean that it was right. It clearly states these were evil actions and detestable to the Lord.

MsMarvelDuckie
04-11-2017, 09:53 AM
Aaaaand you missed the point on that one. Interesting that you only quoted that line from my post as the one immediately preceding it stated that there were errors of translation in many of those very same passages- in fact Moses himself performed many of the same acts as the Pharaoh's court magicians and there are instances in the Bible of Samuel and others having visions and knowing future events. Point is, those were SANCTIONED acts, and the line I referred to esentially would have meant they themselves were condemned for it. But as I said, it was a mistranslation that has unfortunately stuck around. It was originally a word that meant assassin by poison. One letter, and suddenly the entire passage changes.....

Raven
04-11-2017, 10:01 AM
My apologizes, but yes there are many terrible translations in the English side (I can't speak of other language, except for the original Hebrew). Especially in the NIV that skips whole passages from Jesus himself.

But I was pointing how the part of the Hebrew people sought out soothe sayers (Unless your speaking of God's appointed prophets?) I may be misunderstanding you.

FredWolfLeonardo
04-11-2017, 11:07 AM
Many of these scriptures from Leviticus are under the old covenant, When Jesus came and was crucified He also established a new covenant for His followers. We are not bound to the old, such as not eating meat or other pre-established mandates that were for the Israelites (God's chosen people). The law was put in place to show that the Israelites were unable to save themselves through works, that no matter how hard they tried they were always going to mess up. Thus showing that we are in need of a savior, God himself.

The old testament is written as a historical account of what happened and how things transpired. As in the new testament is written for us today in how we live out our lives as Christ showed us. while many of the scriptures are quoted from the old by the writers of the gospel, they explain how we are to live by these under Jesus new covenant.

The laws were established in three different forms, Gods holy law, social and I forget the other. Such things as not eating raw meat is common sense to us now but had to be forbidden for ancient times for a group of people who just got out of slavery and were now expected to thrive on their own (Through God). So some laws were more for the times, while others were for social awareness (Such as stealing, our common laws).

Animal sacrifices under the gospel are done away with either way, as Jesus was the final sacrifices for all our sins. Which is greatly tied to the old testament and His laws, and why we no longer serve under the old covenant but now under Jesus new covenant.

Didn't Jesus himself say he came not to abolish the laws but fufill? It seems to be the opposite for many modern day Christians who take "fufill" to mean that the law has no more power (essentially saying its destroyed), rather than what Jesus defines it as: that anyone who relaxes even a single commandment will be called least in the kingdom of heaven and that people who follow the law less vigorously then the teachers of law (who were very strict) will not even be able to enter heaven. (Mathew 5:17-20).


I don't recall the bible itself ever making distinctions between ceremonial, moral and civil law. It only refers to it as "The Law". To me, it seems these concepts were invented after Jesus because many Christians were ashamed/embarrassed of the Old Testament and/or didn't want to follow the difficult commandments, instead interpreting the Mosaic laws to be universal or only time-specific depending on what suited them and agreed with their existing Moral tendencies,

Candy Kappa
04-11-2017, 11:19 AM
A lot of Christians (probably the majority) believe that when Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law, he meant ending/abolish it or making new Covenant.

Some think it only applies to non-Jews, Christians don't need to follow the Old Testament law to be with Jesus/God, and some believes what's been abolished only applies to what Jesus said in New Testament such as "you should worry more of what comes out of your mouth then in" means that Kosher rules are no longer needed, but the 10 Commandments are still active.


Whatever they believe, most Christians makes sure they can have bacon and shrimp. And that's probably one of the important part.

FredWolfLeonardo
04-11-2017, 11:23 AM
A lot of Christians (probably the majority) believe that when Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law, he meant ending/abolish it or making new Covenant.

That has always puzzled me, considering Jesus said right before he came to fufill "Do not think I have come to abolish the law", yet most Christians as you said interpret fufill to precisely mean what Jesus said it was not.

The Deadman
04-11-2017, 11:47 AM
Right. I'm not a believer at all, but if we're going to have this discussion and assume that Jesus is real, why cherry pick what stays and goes from the Bible?

I'm pretty sure his sole purpose for coming back is to be here to take everyone to heaven during/after the apocalypse. Would be pretty hard to ignore that lol.

I've never actually watched it, but I dig the concept of Left Behind. Only down side is all the other diests would still be here.



There's no proof of aliens. Not everything you see on Ninja Turtles is real.

There's alien life out there, but not along the lines of TMNT or say, Independence Day.

plastroncafe
04-11-2017, 11:53 AM
I can't read a conversation about Jesus without thinking about this:

“And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, a girl sitting on her own in a small café in Rickmansworth suddenly realized what it was that had been going wrong all this time, and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place. This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything.”


― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

I was raised Christian, but have taken the Militant Agnostic route since then, but sometimes I wonder what the world will be like should the Rapture actually happen.

And just how pissed off all the Holy Roller Christianists are going to be when they find out they're stuck here with folks like me.

And then another part of me wonders: Are we already there?

Deep thoughts, by Plastroncafe.

CyberCubed
04-11-2017, 11:55 AM
What does Jesus think about minorities? Is he there for black people? Latinos? Asians? Indians? Gay people, etc?

This all seems like the typical white man stuff. Why do you think God is always portrayed as white when people draw him rather than anything else? Hell, why is Jesus even white? Didn't he live in the Middle East? He should have a darker skin tone.

Raven
04-11-2017, 12:06 PM
Didn't Jesus himself say he came not to abolish the laws but fufill? It seems to be the opposite for many modern day Christians who take "fufill" to mean that the law has no more power (essentially saying its destroyed), rather than what Jesus defines it as: that anyone who relaxes even a single commandment will be called least in the kingdom of heaven and that people who follow the law less vigorously then the teachers of law (who were very strict) will not even be able to enter heaven. (Mathew 5:17-20).


I don't recall the bible itself ever making distinctions between ceremonial, moral and civil law. It only refers to it as "The Law". To me, it seems these concepts were invented after Jesus because many Christians were ashamed/embarrassed of the Old Testament and/or didn't want to follow the difficult commandments, instead interpreting the Mosaic laws to be universal or only time-specific depending on what suited them and agreed with their existing Moral tendencies,


You bring up a good question, as you said Jesus said He came not to abolish the law but fulfill it. I usually point to this article, interesting read that breaks down the original context and meaning.

http://www.egrc.net/articles/director/articles_director_1006.html


Breaking down the law into those three categories is as you said never found in the bible directly, but more or less what can be picked up from studying it. I guess it really depends on who you talk to and their perception on it, obviously someone who holds tight to the law will see it differently then some one who lives under the observation of grace.
Thats how I perceive it, and came to understand why many of those traditions are no longer relevant. I do believe the gospel writers were even in debate about these very things among themselves, which is briefly spoken of in the link I provided.

For example do the Gentiles have to convert to Judaism to become followers of Christ? We of course don't debate that question anymore (Or should we? Most people lack a basic understanding of the scriptures because their lack of knowledge of the old testament, and the customs of the Hebrews. I'm speaking of fellow Christians who have no clue why they do what they do.)

Raven
04-11-2017, 12:11 PM
This all seems like the typical white man stuff. Why do you think God is always portrayed as white when people draw him rather than anything else? Hell, why is Jesus even white? Didn't he live in the Middle East? He should have a darker skin tone.

Funny fact, but many of the main stream portrayals of Jesus and even angels dates back to the renaissance when the Catholic church was commissioning all those paintings. No where in the bible does it describe angels as babies with wings, in fact their barely described. Except for the cherubim and such others.

The Deadman
04-11-2017, 12:11 PM
What does Jesus think about minorities? Is he there for black people? Latinos? Asians? Indians? Gay people, etc?

This all seems like the typical white man stuff. Why do you think God is always portrayed as white when people draw him rather than anything else? Hell, why is Jesus even white? Didn't he live in the Middle East? He should have a darker skin tone.

+1 for trying to play the race card.

mrmaczaps
04-11-2017, 12:14 PM
I can't quote ToTheNines but someone else did and he made a comment about Jesus coming back and taking EVERYONE (caps from me to specify) except that He is coming back just for those who worship Him. Those who believe He died for their sins. Will some "Christians" be left behind, sure. Some people say they are something, but aren't. The Rapture will remove the Church (Christians) and everyone else will either die or endue up to 7 years of literal hell on earth. For about 3.5 years things will be less hellish but then satan will reveal himself and those still not Saved/converted to Christianity will be forced to take the mark of the beast.

Even if you think I'm full of crap or crazy, read the Left Behind series. Its not perfect and most assuredly not accurate but it does give a Biblical look at what we as humans can only guess at... Or maybe attend Church this Sunday for Easter and listen with an open heart.

Cubed, Jesus doesn't have an issue with "minorities". Anyone who confesses with their mouth that He is their Lord & Savoir will be saved. He does have an issue with sin though.

As far as why most paintings show Jesus as white, I couldn't tell you.

Utrommaniac
04-11-2017, 12:26 PM
In a single sentence: Antisemitism during the Renaissance in Europe.
That's why.

Dust
04-11-2017, 12:35 PM
I'm a Christian but I'm believing less and less the older I get. The main thing being that when a serial killer who is also a Christian dies, they get to go to heaven, yet when someone who isn't a Christian hasn't wronged anyone in their life, they burn in Hell. Christianity, to me at least, tell us all the follow one person above all else, listen to him and no one else, God. And God is often depicted as a shepherd herding the sheep that are humanity, but we're not sheep, we're free to do what we want and shouldn't conform to a being who may or may not exist's view of the world, of right and wrong.
Sorry for the rant, there may be a lot of stuff I'm negating, my views may change, but this is what I believe for now.

As for the question, if Jesus had come back to Earth, he wouldn't be believed, no. Not in this day and age.

Raven
04-11-2017, 12:53 PM
I'm a Christian but I'm believing less and less the older I get. The main thing being that when a serial killer who is also a Christian dies, they get to go to heaven, yet when someone who isn't a Christian hasn't wronged anyone in their life, they burn in Hell. Christianity, to me at least, tell us all the follow one person above all else, listen to him and no one else, God. And God is often depicted as a shepherd herding the sheep that are humanity, but we're not sheep, we're free to do what we want and shouldn't conform to a being who may or may not exist's view of the world, of right and wrong.
Sorry for the rant, there may be a lot of stuff I'm negating, my views may change, but this is what I believe for now.

As for the question, if Jesus had come back to Earth, he wouldn't be believed, no. Not in this day and age.

Man only sees from the outside, but God sees us from the inside. Only He knows the intentions of our heart.

This is a question I've heard from some people. Lets say a guy that has killed hundreds is going to his death bed at the last second he gives his life to Christ and is saved. Does he receive the same things as the believer who has followed Christ his whole life?

Yes, as paul writes we all run a different race. We are all trying to get to the same finish line but not everyone will arrive there in the same way or at the same time. The main difference is the life they lived (We could get into the whole discussion of the rewards and blessings they receive in heaven but really thats a whole other question. But the man who has gone his whole life and has not "wronged" anyone only God knows what his heart is. We are not the judge or the deciders, but we have been given a decision which is freely given to anyone and everyone.

And God has given us free will since the garden of Eden, the forbidden fruit being the prime example. Adam and Eve were given the choice to disobey God, why? Because love is an action and one we need to choose every day. If God wanted people that only worshipped him with no choice He would have taken away the forbidden fruit and never allowed choice to begin with.

If theirs something you need me to pray for you on, I would be more then willing to lift you in prayer or answer any questions that you may have regarding things like this.

mrmaczaps
04-11-2017, 12:57 PM
I'm a Christian but I'm believing less and less the older I get. The main thing being that when a serial killer who is also a Christian dies, they get to go to heaven, yet when someone who isn't a Christian hasn't wronged anyone in their life, they burn in Hell. Christianity, to me at least, tell us all the follow one person above all else, listen to him and no one else, God. And God is often depicted as a shepherd herding the sheep that are humanity, but we're not sheep, we're free to do what we want and shouldn't conform to a being who may or may not exist's view of the world, of right and wrong.
Sorry for the rant, there may be a lot of stuff I'm negating, my views may change, but this is what I believe for now.

As for the question, if Jesus had come back to Earth, he wouldn't be believed, no. Not in this day and age.

But we are sheep. We, humanity, is stupid as a brick sometimes. We need a shepherd. A serial killer is a sinner. Someone who hasn't "wronged anyone" still lied, cheated or stole or sped in their life. Not one person on the planet is without sin. Except Jesus. Big sins or little are man made measurements. God exists.
Science will say things are because they are proven. They are provable because God made it so.

There will come a day when people actually think God has come back as a living breathing, normal everyday human being. This would be the antichrist. But that won't be until after the Rapture.

plastroncafe
04-11-2017, 01:03 PM
But we are sheep. We, humanity, is stupid as a brick sometimes. We need a shepherd. A serial killer is a sinner. Someone who hasn't "wronged anyone" still lied, cheated or stole or sped in their life. Not one person on the planet is without sin. Except Jesus. Big sins or little are man made measurements. God exists.
Science will say things are because they are proven. They are provable because God made it so.

There will come a day when people actually think God has come back as a living breathing, normal everyday human being. This would be the antichrist. But that won't be until after the Rapture.

I was under the assumption that Mary was also born without sin.
Though admittedly, it's been a long time since I paid that book much heed.

Candy Kappa
04-11-2017, 01:06 PM
No where in the bible does it describe angels as babies with wings, in fact their barely described. Except for the cherubim and such others.

I think the best part about "pop-culture" angel mythology is the mix up between Puttoes (babies with wings) and Cherubs. :lol:

plastroncafe
04-11-2017, 01:07 PM
I think the best part about "pop-culture" angel mythology is the mix up between Puttoes (babies with wings) and Cherubs. :lol:

To quote this (http://pyrrhiccomedy.tumblr.com/post/142646579807/what-do-angels-actually-look-like-per-the-bible) post from Tumblr:

There’s a good reason why angels’ standard greeting is ‘Do not be afraid’.

Utrommaniac
04-11-2017, 01:11 PM
I'm a Christian but I'm believing less and less the older I get. The main thing being that when a serial killer who is also a Christian dies, they get to go to heaven, yet when someone who isn't a Christian hasn't wronged anyone in their life, they burn in Hell. Christianity, to me at least, tell us all the follow one person above all else, listen to him and no one else, God. And God is often depicted as a shepherd herding the sheep that are humanity, but we're not sheep, we're free to do what we want and shouldn't conform to a being who may or may not exist's view of the world, of right and wrong.
Sorry for the rant, there may be a lot of stuff I'm negating, my views may change, but this is what I believe for now.

I found myself feeling the same way. And I even started to realize that I might not have "believed" most of my life. I may have been brought to church every week. I may have been in choir and the puppet group (shrunken drastically now since its glory days...Glory days...<church pun here>), and I may have gone through confirmation.

But I realized in my heart of hearts, I went because I had no choice. I went to choir because I enjoyed the act of singing, not what its purpose was; because I liked the way some songs sounded more than I liked what they meant. Because it was one of the few places outside of school where I could learn to sing.
I had a brief run with the puppets BECAUSE PUPPETS. I went to confirmation because I wanted to be seen as an adult by my community. During the end of my tenure at the church, I only went once a month...to take care of the kids in the nursery.

When I had ideas for religious-based stories, I did it because I thought it was expected of me. And because I was furious at the portrayal of snakes as tools of the devil (still am...considering if I should share that odd, odd window of my life of the Snake Book I had been working on for three years before I got bored of it).

I don't know if it was an Asperger's thing or something else, but I found more fulfilment in learning outside Christian-based teachings than within.



Also, not all sheep need shepherds. There are wild varieties of sheep that can fend for themselves and would probably buck any would-be shepherds right off their mineral-laden cliffs. Let that be an analogy.

Candy Kappa
04-11-2017, 01:17 PM
To quote this (http://pyrrhiccomedy.tumblr.com/post/142646579807/what-do-angels-actually-look-like-per-the-bible) post from Tumblr:

I don't remember on the fly if the angels coming to save Lot was physically described. but I'd like to imagine they looked like some of the descriptional examples we've given and the men that wanted hanky-panky with the angels had a weird fetish.

"I'mma woo me some wheels of eyes, yeah."

ToTheNines
04-11-2017, 01:27 PM
Someone who hasn't "wronged anyone" still lied, cheated or stole or sped in their life. Not one person on the planet is without sin. Except Jesus.

Lmao, speeding is a sin?

I want to see my state police start running biblical PSAs now: "Breaking the speed limit? That's a one way ticket TO HELL!"

Raven
04-11-2017, 01:34 PM
I was under the assumption that Mary was also born without sin.
Though admittedly, it's been a long time since I paid that book much heed.

Yea, Mary born just like the rest of us. Jesus is the only one born without (being God in the flesh).

I think the best part about "pop-culture" angel mythology is the mix up between Puttoes (babies with wings) and Cherubs. :lol:

To quote this (http://pyrrhiccomedy.tumblr.com/post/142646579807/what-do-angels-actually-look-like-per-the-bible) post from Tumblr:

Holy crap those are great depictions, gives greater sense why people were so afraid of them :eek:

ZariusTwo
04-11-2017, 01:42 PM
8WgXPBDrd8s

Andrew NDB
04-11-2017, 01:44 PM
Man only sees from the outside, but God sees us from the inside. Only He knows the intentions of our heart.

This is a question I've heard from some people. Lets say a guy that has killed hundreds is going to his death bed at the last second he gives his life to Christ and is saved. Does he receive the same things as the believer who has followed Christ his whole life?

Yes, as paul writes we all run a different race. We are all trying to get to the same finish line but not everyone will arrive there in the same way or at the same time. The main difference is the life they lived (We could get into the whole discussion of the rewards and blessings they receive in heaven but really thats a whole other question. But the man who has gone his whole life and has not "wronged" anyone only God knows what his heart is. We are not the judge or the deciders, but we have been given a decision which is freely given to anyone and everyone.

And God has given us free will since the garden of Eden, the forbidden fruit being the prime example. Adam and Eve were given the choice to disobey God, why? Because love is an action and one we need to choose every day. If God wanted people that only worshipped him with no choice He would have taken away the forbidden fruit and never allowed choice to begin with.

If theirs something you need me to pray for you on, I would be more then willing to lift you in prayer or answer any questions that you may have regarding things like this.

http://www.atheistrepublic.com/sites/default/files/Created%20Man%20With%20Sin.jpg

Raven
04-11-2017, 01:48 PM
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/sites/default/files/Created%20Man%20With%20Sin.jpg

No, we were not created with original sin. After the fall at the garden of Eden sin entered the world. No one was created with sin, that was never part of Gods plan.

Andrew I know your trying to pick things apart, but come on...I know your smarter then that.

plastroncafe
04-11-2017, 01:53 PM
Yea, Mary born just like the rest of us. Jesus is the only one born without (being God in the flesh).

Holy crap those are great depictions, gives greater sense why people were so afraid of them :eek:

I've found the disparity.
Catholics believe that Mary is the Immaculate Conception, ie that she was born without sin retroactively so that she might give birth without sin.

My CCD instructors would be so proud of me.

DarthRaphael
04-11-2017, 02:14 PM
aaaaannnnnd I'm closing this now, since this has become nothing but Christian bashing. If I find another religion thread, I'm deleting it.