PDA

View Full Version : Do you find there is a war on negativity?


Vegita-San
04-22-2017, 01:12 PM
I'm curious...

why do so many people who claim to be positive focus on the people who they think are 'negative' to the point of obsession in some cases?


I tend to not like where alot of things go, and i'm not afraid to speak out about it. cases like star wars. I think there is alot of un originality and feminism starting to invade the franchise, and i'm not afraid to speak up about it. Feigbusters. I was against this thing daring to call itself ghostbusters from day one, and was a huge target against it from the few supporters of the franchise.

The new Corporate direction of turtles. I'm still a fan of the franchise, yet not a fan of 2K12, and Platinum Dunes. this is apparently seen as a bad thing.

Things like the New DC Movies I don't particularly care for due to their violent nature and DC not understanding their own characters.


I always try to not make it personal, try to have well thought out opinions (unless the opposition drives me so crazy i don't care anymore)...and WILL go out of my way to compliment things if i feel that they deserve to be complimented, even in things I don't particularly care for, like the new star wars movies.

Yet, for whatever reason, the so called people who claim to be neutral, and positive, take this as a personal affront and will go out of their way to discredit, attack, or otherwise shame you into coming to their viewpoint.

and they don't realize that this not only doesn't help their cause, it will cause us to stand our ground further and not back down.

So, my fellow entertainment grumps. have you experienced this behavior before? how have you handled it?

with grace and dignity? or did you just get so bored of being called things like a hypocrite, that you finally just said 'to hell with it' and started firing back?

Prowler
04-22-2017, 01:50 PM
Wouldn't call ti a "war" per se, but yes lots of people seem to get offended when someone isn't always happily excited about something. Not just movies and games and such but things in general. I think it's because they dont' want to be reminded that there's lots of crappy stuff on this world and some just don't lead happy lives in general or don't like lots of things they like. So they're probably afraid of falling into that "abyss" someday as well, and thus don't want to hear sad stories.

That being said, lots of people whine about just everything without having solid reasons why and that can get annoying.

Vegita-San
04-22-2017, 01:58 PM
Wouldn't call ti a "war" per se, but yes lots of people seem to get offended when someone isn't always happily excited about something. Not just movies and games and such but things in general. I think it's because they dont' want to be reminded that there's lots of crappy stuff on this world and some just don't lead happy lives in general or don't like lots of things they like. So they're probably afraid of falling into that "abyss" someday as well, and thus don't want to hear sad stories.

That being said, lots of people whine about just everything without having solid reasons why and that can get annoying.

I can see this as a very possible reaction.

That last part is one of the reasons why i used the term 'war on negativity'..
people get so tired of what they see as 'whining' (and in lots of cases, that is exactly what it is) that the go crazy on it.

Cure
04-22-2017, 02:50 PM
I dunno about on negativity, but I know around here it's the opposite. Most things get **** on in these forums and when people like TigerClaw come around, he gets shat on for simply liking stuff. It's kind of sad.

TheSkeletonMan939
04-22-2017, 03:02 PM
Like Cure, I've seen it both ways. I've been told off for being "too negative" (actually, I just have standards), and I've seen people who are more lax about their entertainment-watching be made fun of for "being a sheep" or whatever. I don't think there's anything wrong either way, so long as you can actually articulate why you like/dislike something.

Prowler
04-22-2017, 03:05 PM
Like Cure, I've seen it both ways. I've been told off for being "too negative" (actually, I just have standards), and I've seen people who are more lax about their entertainment-watching be made fun of for "being a sheep" or whatever. I don't think there's anything wrong either way, so long as you can actually articulate why you like/dislike something.
Yeah just be rational and put forth reasonable arguments to like/dislike something.

Vegita-San
04-22-2017, 03:05 PM
Yeah.

I can see the sheep argument though.

but, in that case, I usually find it's people who actually WORK or want to work in hollywood, that are too afraid of annoying their bosses or future bosses, to actually want to criticize anything.

there are a few people like that one some forums, that will say, suicide squad is the best movie since captain america. despite 98% of the forum saying it's crap.

in those instances, when they have the same response to just about anything, I don't mind using the 'sheep' argument.

that's a whole other level of psychosis these days. someone who thinks that everything has to be good, and even when you see the damn movie, you can't pre judge it unless you think it's awesome ;o).

in my case, so long as the person can articulate why or why they don't like or dislike something, i generally can have fun talking with them.

Vegita-San
04-22-2017, 03:08 PM
and then you have another odd level of reaction.

a person will be totally sane one post, and then, you say something, and it's like a switch is flipped and they go total Social Justice Warrior on you for no reason at all.

I've seen it happen at least three times in the last few years, and i always wonder what makes them go off the deep end.

Cure
04-22-2017, 03:21 PM
Like Cure, I've seen it both ways. I've been told off for being "too negative" (actually, I just have standards), and I've seen people who are more lax about their entertainment-watching be made fun of for "being a sheep" or whatever.

A "shill" is what I've seen TigerClaw be called a lot.

TheSkeletonMan939
04-22-2017, 03:27 PM
Andrew's preferred term is "plant". :trazz:

Vegita-San
04-22-2017, 03:29 PM
Andrew's preferred term is "plant". :trazz:

Oh, I have NO doubt there are plants.

From the Studios who either think stirring up trouble on forums is a good way too promote their product.....


or from studios who insert people into forums for the length the project is in the theater, and then after that time is up, those people simply vanish off the face of the earth. these people usually only post in the topics related to that specific movie or TV show. I've seen it happen before ;o).

Also, usually the people you can prove work in hollywood are also the ones who tend to be combative to the point of insulting when you disagree with them about a certain hollywood movie :)

T-U-R-T-L-E POWA!
04-22-2017, 03:57 PM
A "shill" is what I've seen TigerClaw be called a lot.

The problem with the way things are today is that people so strongly "identify" with the things they like that they can't concede that it isn't absolutely perfect and take it personal when someone criticizes it. I'm a die hard Steelers fan and am a member of a prominent Steelers board online and there are some there that act like if you're critical of any aspect of the team then you must not be a "real fan". That's stupid in the extreme. A person's very presence at an online forum should signal that they probably actually like the thing they are there to talk about. The same thing exists here and everywhere else. I personally don't like the new TMNT movies. Some people do. Big flipping deal. The bottom line is that we ALL love TMNT in one form or another. I'm 35 and actually lived through the true Turtle phenomenon back in the day and so obviously I have a strong nostalgic attachment to that series but can totally see why people who weren't there for it might think the 03 version is better. Doesn't make them stupid or me stupid. I personally think the Nick version has been the best version of all the shows. I personally think the original film is better than the new films. Some don't. So what? People just really need to learn to understand the world doesn't always agree with them. The problem with the internet is that it is used as this perpetual echo chamber.

True story that makes my point: This just happened to me yesterday. I work at UPS and was riding with a supervisor yesterday who happens to be black. Good dude. Hilarious. Love being around him. So I was bragging on my little boy's memory. He's 6 and almost has the first 16 Presidents memorized, knows how many amendments are in the Constitution, who wrote the Declaration of Independence, who is called the "Father of the Constitution", who shot Lincoln, where Lincoln was shot, where Lincoln died, and who shot Booth. So then he says "well does he know who shot MLK"? and I said "I don't think we've ever talked about MLK before actually". Then I started talking about how MLK had been wiretapped and spied on and how I'm curious if those tapes actually exist and will ever come out. This is widely talked about among historians. I also talked about how they accused him of plagiarism in the I Have A Dream Speech. Well then he acts like none of those things ever happened and I was like "I'm not saying I BELIEVE that he was a womanizer or whatever but just that there is a lot of speculation that he was" and then even said "Jefferson gets credit for The Pursuit of Happiness but John Locke was the originator of that thought". Well he just gets like totally triggered and is like "I DON'T WANNA TALK ABOUT IT ANYMORE! PEOPLE JUST WANNA TEAR DOWN A GREAT MAN!" and I'm just totally in shock that a simple conversation has escalated in to something so volatile. Then it occurred to me that some people are just simply unable to separate the "message" from the "messenger". They can't see that a man like MLK or Thomas Jefferson or whoever might have some things about them that aren't all that great but in the end the "ideas" of these men are what we should revere and realize that ALL people are far from perfect. The same principle goes for TMNT fandom and all the rest. Just my two cents.

IndigoErth
04-22-2017, 04:34 PM
Is there anything there isn't a "war on" these days? Humanity has lost sight of what is and isn't worth being taken so seriously. It's like people treat everything in the same vein as politics and fundamentalist religion. Like the fate of society is going to be destroyed by people who don't share a view or opinion.

Omg, you don't like a thing I like? This is a personal judgement and I'm offended!

Omg, you like a thing I don't and support its existence? Traitor! Horrible human being.

Not that there shouldn't be both criticism and praise, it's how the world self-corrects (sooner or later), but people need to stop thinking that a difference of opinion negates their own just because someone else showed up and was allowed to speak. Seems like that happens and then someone else has to talk louder just to have the final say, as if actually matters to the argument.


"Feminism starting to invade"? What's that even supposed to mean. There is a "no girls allowed" sign? Esp on everything fun. Why. In my perspective, the whole concept of redoing things like Ghostbusters isn't dumb because it was women put into the roles... its dumb because women can't get cool/fun original films like that in the first place. Films that aren't a "chick flick," and that men are going to like just as much because it's is a good, fun film, not because someone's boobs were put on display. (I did like the variety between the women, in terms of personalities, in that Ghostbusters.)

That kind of subject kind of is worth the argument to a point though. That isn't just on the level of liking or hating a PD movie for the movie and film makers itself... that's supporting doors being closed to a whole demographic for really lame reasons.




Plants... I don't know why they even bother. It's a pretty lousy attempt at marketing and a waste of time because you aren't going to change people's opinions. Even if someone is simply on a forum of their own accord because they happen to be a fan of a franchise already... I can understand wanting to defend something you are a part of and yourself worked hard on, but the arguments just can't be worth having most of the time.


edit: I can understand many of us being a little touchy about longtime beloved things like TMNT. Few probably want to see it do poorly based on some company's stupid ideas, and then they and others turn around and decide, for the wrong self-awareness-lacking reasons, that it is no longer a money maker and decide to put the franchise away. Hating something and wanting better for it or choosing to love anything with its name on it probably both have the same goal in the end, but via different priorities.

I don't want to see them go 'extinct' in my lifetime... I'd rather some version of them still be up to something when I'm old and about done for. Wish they'd make it to 100 (imagine that!) and be here to see it.

Powder
04-22-2017, 05:16 PM
This might be a valid conversation if you weren't legitimately trolling the Nick section lately...

But yeah, it goes both ways.

mrmaczaps
04-22-2017, 05:25 PM
I'm curious...

why do so many people who claim to be positive focus on the people who they think are 'negative' to the point of obsession in some cases?


I tend to not like where alot of things go, and i'm not afraid to speak out about it. cases like star wars. I think there is alot of un originality and feminism starting to invade the franchise, and i'm not afraid to speak up about it. Feigbusters. I was against this thing daring to call itself ghostbusters from day one, and was a huge target against it from the few supporters of the franchise.

The new Corporate direction of turtles. I'm still a fan of the franchise, yet not a fan of 2K12, and Platinum Dunes. this is apparently seen as a bad thing.

Things like the New DC Movies I don't particularly care for due to their violent nature and DC not understanding their own characters.


I always try to not make it personal, try to have well thought out opinions (unless the opposition drives me so crazy i don't care anymore)...and WILL go out of my way to compliment things if i feel that they deserve to be complimented, even in things I don't particularly care for, like the new star wars movies.

Yet, for whatever reason, the so called people who claim to be neutral, and positive, take this as a personal affront and will go out of their way to discredit, attack, or otherwise shame you into coming to their viewpoint.

and they don't realize that this not only doesn't help their cause, it will cause us to stand our ground further and not back down.

So, my fellow entertainment grumps. have you experienced this behavior before? how have you handled it?

with grace and dignity? or did you just get so bored of being called things like a hypocrite, that you finally just said 'to hell with it' and started firing back?

You're talking about the folks who love the stuff even if its horrible because they think supporting crap movies/toons/toys or whatever will keep their brand of fandom going....

Those people are insufferable. I'm a fan of Turtles, Superman/DC but I want a HIGHER quality product. Supporting less than stellar outings means getting more less than stellar outings...

Bring the hate. Lol

Wildcat
04-22-2017, 11:16 PM
It's funny when people complain they're criticized for being too negative or just giving thier opinions...there's a reason.

You really do not see "positive" posts claiming so-and-so is absolutely wonderful but a lot of "negative" posts DO claim so-and-so is absolutely awful.

Hyperbole is rarely if ever in the positive sense. Nobody gives exaggerated praise. It's just not a thing.

Naysayers will always be more vocal.

sdp
04-22-2017, 11:56 PM
The problem is the hivemind of the internet, doesn't matter if it's negative or positive.

Andrew NDB
04-23-2017, 04:09 AM
Threads like these are why we need CyberCubed.

Vegita-San
04-23-2017, 05:41 AM
It's funny when people complain they're criticized for being too negative or just giving thier opinions...there's a reason.

You really do not see "positive" posts claiming so-and-so is absolutely wonderful but a lot of "negative" posts DO claim so-and-so is absolutely awful.
.

actually, in some places you do ;o).

even with movies that have no redeeming value, most do just to appear smug, or positive for the sake of being positive.

whether they really feel that way or not is another question entirely...

and maybe the reason 'negative' people do more often is cause we are tired of being labled 'haters'. it's such a dismissive term used by people who don't want to try and prove their point.

Vegita-San
04-23-2017, 05:47 AM
Threads like these are why we need CyberCubed.

there are more than enough people like him to replace him. it really helps keep the peace when you get called a hypocrite, for example ;o)


You're talking about the folks who love the stuff even if its horrible because they think supporting crap movies/toons/toys or whatever will keep their brand of fandom going....

Those people are insufferable. I'm a fan of Turtles, Superman/DC but I want a HIGHER quality product. Supporting less than stellar outings means getting more less than stellar outings...

Bring the hate. Lol

The problem is the hivemind of the internet, doesn't matter if it's negative or positive.



yep. or the people that feel misguided in supporting something, because they think it's for the good of the franchise.
andthen take it as a personal insult if you dare to dislike it, even in an intelligent way.

Katie
04-23-2017, 06:20 AM
Isn't it kind of cynical to think that most people who liked a "bad" movie (in your opinion) and say they liked it are doing so just to save a franchise? Or that they should be brushed off because they aren't as sophisticated as the ones that share your opinion...or they don't know "the business" like you do?

I think the discussion of movies has gotten out of control on the internet. There is a bit of a hive mind and if for whatever reason you happen to be someone who enjoyed a movie that the internet didn't, you get called a sheep ( I don't get this because...aren't the sheep the ones who all have the same view?) or an idiot or whatever else to the point that some people stop sharing their true thoughts and join the hive or just stop talking about what they like all together.

And that's bad because then the perception that " what we think is right must be right" grows because its all you see.

Its sad really.

mrmaczaps
04-23-2017, 11:04 AM
Isn't it kind of cynical to think that most people who liked a "bad" movie (in your opinion) and say they liked it are doing so just to save a franchise? Or that they should be brushed off because they aren't as sophisticated as the ones that share your opinion...or they don't know "the business" like you do?

I think the discussion of movies has gotten out of control on the internet. There is a bit of a hive mind and if for whatever reason you happen to be someone who enjoyed a movie that the internet didn't, you get called a sheep ( I don't get this because...aren't the sheep the ones who all have the same view?) or an idiot or whatever else to the point that some people stop sharing their true thoughts and join the hive or just stop talking about what they like all together.

And that's bad because then the perception that " what we think is right must be right" grows because its all you see.

Its sad really.


Its sad that folks liked OOTS just because Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang and the Technodrome were (sort of) in it... and can't see it for how horribly written it was on a whole.

Do I like some terribly flawed films, sure I do. But do I run around telling other people they aren't "true fans" because the film in reality does suck but they should support it regardless? No.

The big issue I see today is that if you point out flaws on something, its seen as "bad". Knowing your flaws, and trying to make better on it is usually a damn good thing to do...

So if OOTS had a better storyline and the Turtles were four and half feet tall or so, then it could have been awesome. But a two hour love note to the cartoon, which I've recently been trying to watch again, not so much. Lets have better writing, stories that make a bit more sense and some good old fashioned comic book logic and someone who actually likes the franchise...

Katie
04-23-2017, 11:21 AM
Its fine to have a negative opinion of a movie. Its not ok to bash someone else for their different opinion no matter what the reason.

I wasn't even talking about any specific movie but since you brought up the recent turtles movies, thats a perfect example. Look at the craziness it caused here.

Same with the Marvel movies vs the DC movies.

Its not bad if you liked the turtles movies. Its also not bad if you liked Batman vs. Superman. Its not bad if you hated them. People like movies or don't like movies for a variety of reasons. None which are "right" or "wrong". What I don't like seeing is the elitist attitude that some people on the internet have about movies and put down people who liked this movie or that movie or don't like the darling movie.

I think people get too wrapped up in their fandoms and what they want to see and forget that other people may have other ideas or be open to liberties with these fictional characters.

I think its a shame that people are attacked on the internet because they have a different opinion on something as silly as a movie.

Who says your version is the "better / best" of the character? Some of these characters have been around for nearly a hundred years. Haven't they changed in that time? Don't you think that during those changes people bitched about the changes? But guess what? The properties survived and changed some more and thats ok.

Vegita-San
04-23-2017, 11:27 AM
but you also have the positive people doing the exact same thing, usually with the hive mind mentioned earlier, so they can stand out louder against the 'negative' people.


I usually don't mind if you like something, even as something as pointless as PD turtles. it's how you present it that i have the problem with.

and i find most of the positive people tend to be not only combative, but personally insulting. like you insult their long dead mother.

mrmaczaps
04-23-2017, 11:33 AM
but you also have the positive people doing the exact same thing, usually with the hive mind mentioned earlier, so they can stand out louder against the 'negative' people.


I usually don't mind if you like something, even as something as pointless as PD turtles. it's how you present it that i have the problem with.

and i find most of the positive people tend to be not only combative, but personally insulting. like you insult their long dead mother.

Yeah, this exactly. I even got booted from a TMNT FB group from some "positive" people simply because I didn't like the PD Turtles flicks. I do love the Turtles and I had high hopes for the movies. The second one was a little better than the first as it was FUN for the most part, but it still had serious issues from a writing/storyline standpoint.

Man of Steel & BvS are also examples of movies I wanted to do well but also be well written and I think the actors are great for the most part but I just hate them both so much.

Marvel movies are easier for me since I'm not really a fan of Marvels characters beyond Spiderman.

Its when either side just comes out and hates on the fans, each other, because they like or dislike something thats the issue.

Tell a better story and leave the personal attacks home in your moms basement (directed at no one, just figureatively speaking).

IndigoErth
04-23-2017, 01:17 PM
The extremes of both sides bug me, esp the whole PD TMNT thing... And they legitimately good films? Not really. But acting like it's the Jesus of Turtle films (as some were doing before 2014 came out), or on the flip side as if they (or at least 2016) have no redeeming qualities (often claimed by those who have chosen to never see it)... both ridiculous.

How are we to ever get decent films again if people are not equally welcome to point out what was good (or at least improved on) and what sucked, so film makers can get a realistic idea of what is working. (Because like it or not, these big films are prob going to be handed to people who know little about the material.) Just acting like a brainwashed cult member who willingly loves anything or an inconsolable child who hates everything and refuses to even bother looking for something likeable, helps no one. (But if film makers refuse to even consider the public opinion for guidance then they're on their own.)

Vegita-San
04-23-2017, 01:24 PM
i personally don't see why people don't give something, even if they don't agree with it, at LEAST a chance to be viewed.

In some cases, like DC films, where you've been burned twice before and don't want to be burned a third time if it looks like more of the same, i can see that stand point, but at least give it a chance. even if you think you'll hate it. at least then you can trash it properly if you want :)

that's what i did with the PD turtle films, and to me, they HAVE no redeeming quality, because they where made by people who don't understand the franchise and where doing it just to make a quick buck.

at least next mutation tried to have a little heart and fun, however misguided it was. PD turtles was just mindless....at least to me.

mrmaczaps
04-23-2017, 01:24 PM
The extremes of both sides bug me, esp the whole PD TMNT thing... And they legitimately good films? Not really. But acting like it's the Jesus of Turtle films (as some were doing before 2014 came out), or on the flip side as if they (or at least 2016) have no redeeming qualities (often claimed by those who have chosen to never see it)... both ridiculous.

How are we to ever get decent films again if people are not equally welcome to point out what was good (or at least improved on) and what sucked, so film makers can get a realistic idea of what is working. (Because like it or not, these big films are prob going to be handed to people who know little about the material.) Just acting like a brainwashed cult member who willingly loves anything or an inconsolable child who hates everything and refuses to even bother looking for something likeable, helps no one. (But if film makers refuse to even consider the public opinion for guidance then they're on their own.)

That's the thing, I saw both (free passes) and tried to give them both the benefit of the doubt... But story wise, they are god-awful movies... Yes two fixed some things from the first... Now some folks reading that will hate on it saying I'm hating on the films. Criticism is NOT a bad thing... Also, I agree with you saying people who didn't see them are terrible. Can you tell the movies suck just from trailers, sure but you can't tell how bad they suck from just the trailers... Superman Returns for example, seemed like it was going to be awesome, and as a Supes fan who was in the local paper in 2006 on the day the movie came out, it was disappointing to see how horrible that film turned out...

Returns was too stalkerish.
MOS was too alien. BvS was horrid. DC is rushing.

mrmaczaps
04-23-2017, 01:26 PM
i personally don't see why people don't give something, even if they don't agree with it, at LEAST a chance to be viewed.

In some cases, like DC films, where you've been burned twice before and don't want to be burned a third time if it looks like more of the same, i can see that stand point, but at least give it a chance. even if you think you'll hate it. at least then you can trash it properly if you want :)

that's what i did with the PD turtle films, and to me, they HAVE no redeeming quality, because they where made by people who don't understand the franchise and where doing it just to make a quick buck.

at least next mutation tried to have a little heart and fun, however misguided it was. PD turtles was just mindless....at least to me.

I don't think you even need to give a franchise 3 shots... Give the filmmakers three chances maybe... Lol.

plastroncafe
04-23-2017, 03:02 PM
No. There isn't a war on negativity.

There should be a war on s#itposting.
The two are not the same thing.

DisKosh
04-23-2017, 03:12 PM
"Feminism starting to invade"? What's that even supposed to mean. There is a "no girls allowed" sign? Esp on everything fun. Why. In my perspective, the whole concept of redoing things like Ghostbusters isn't dumb because it was women put into the roles... its dumb because women can't get cool/fun original films like that in the first place. Films that aren't a "chick flick," and that men are going to like just as much because it's is a good, fun film, not because someone's boobs were put on display. (I did like the variety between the women, in terms of personalities, in that Ghostbusters.)

I haven't seen anything Ghostbusters related so I can't comment on that but yes, I also hate the way it's rare to see an action/sci-fi/fantasy film about women in which they're not sexualised in anyway. Women are people and I'm glad we're starting to see that. Hopefully in future it won't be a big deal to see a film with a female main character for all audiences.

Its sad that folks liked OOTS just because Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang and the Technodrome were (sort of) in it... and can't see it for how horribly written it was on a whole.

You see, I wasn't particularly excited about the elements of the 80's cartoon (aside from Stockman) but I still enjoyed it. It's not a masterpiece but it's fun and there were some scenes I genuinely liked e.g. the scene where Mikey goes to the Halloween parade and that scene later where some a$$hole calls them monsters.
The themes they touched on didn't get as much development as I would have liked but it did give a glimpse of what I want to see from a turtles movie.

Also, Mikey is adorable and I find Raph kind of hot. Does that make it good? Hell no! But the movie makes me a little nostalgic and happy and sometimes that's all I need from a movie.

Vegita-San
04-23-2017, 06:15 PM
Hopefully in future it won't be a big deal to see a film with a female main character for all audiences.

.


It hasn't been that way since princess leia in star wars. but when the head of lucas film says 'the male audience no longer matters', or some such argument that she said in an interview a while back, you're going to undo all that progress by being combative. and forcing the issue, just to get movies out there, regardless of if the movie is any good or not doesn't help either.
then people are going to say 'female lead movies stink'..cause no one is taking the time to do it properly and naturally.


Oh, and PD Mikey was the one making boner jokes to april. i personally found that disgusting..and nothing like mikey at all.. but...that's just me ;o).

IndigoErth
04-23-2017, 06:32 PM
At least Mikey pretty much cut that out in the second film. Other than the whole "Are you two like a thing?" question. To which I appreciate his brother's reactions, like they're tired of it too. lol (Figure for them that would have gone on for two more years behind the scenes... lol)

It hasn't been that way since princess leia in star wars.
Yeah, the whole chained up bikini prisoner Leia thing kind of ruins by ability to ever see it that way.

DisKosh
04-23-2017, 06:56 PM
It hasn't been that way since princess leia in star wars.

The film focuses more on Luke than her, now that's not really a problem, actually the fact that many action/sci-fi films focus on the male character isn't a big deal when you look at each movie individually. However, films that treat female leads in the same way are few and far between.

Oh, and PD Mikey was the one making boner jokes to april. i personally found that disgusting..and nothing like mikey at all.. but...that's just me ;o).

Yeah, I found that creepy, especially in the first one. He's creepy and I'm like 'Nooo! You're meant to be cute and innocent!'

When I said I liked some of his scenes, they were not what I was referring to.

Coola Yagami
04-23-2017, 09:17 PM
The thing is, the BayTMNT films were horrible from the get-go, the direction, the design, the bizzare changes, just the idea that originally the Turtles were going to be aliens and Shredder was going to be a random white dude in a bladed transformer iron man suit. Just no.

Yet many people ate it up, I assume blinded by their own nostalgia or just desperately happy to have some sort of new TMNT film on screen, even if it's probably the worst possible way you could have gone with the concept. I honestly don't understand the blind devotion. It's like you're at some TMNT club and there's a bouncer going around taking away anyone's official TMNT fan club card if you don't say you love the BayTMNT films. Just because the movie is new and shiny and is (was) in theaters now as opposed to back in the Vanilla Ice 90's, admitting that it sucks doesn't all of a sudden turn you into a traitor to the fanbase. It's like fans happily embracing Fant4Stic just for the simple fact that Doctor Doom is back in another live action movie regardless of how crappy the actual movie was. And then people saying they're not true Marvel fans for hating the movie.

Out of the Shadows did NOT capture the spirit of the old cartoon. You can't just cram characters and say it's just like the old cartoon. You might as well say the first movie captured the spirit of Mirage because Karai was in it. I think the movie bombed because it just wasn't good, and the people that remember the cartoon fondly and don't keep up with anyone TMNT related went to see the movie hoping to remember the good old days, but then realized the movie did it all wrong.

I'd say Bebop and Rocksteady were pretty spot on, but we were still stuck with a messed up Krang, lame Shredder, Megan Fox O'Neil, Bay Turtles and NotCasey. The Turtles didn't even fight Bebop and Rocksteady all that much other than being slammed around and dodging the cannon shots and the whole ordeal with the waterfall. Then they get defeated by the lamest version of Casey Jones ever??? Leo does more martial arts in his practice poses in the lair than any time in actual battle. No thanks. Glad there won't be a part 3.

Cure
04-23-2017, 09:32 PM
Uuuuuugh. Can this not become ANOTHER thread to bash those movies? Jesus.

DisKosh
04-23-2017, 09:54 PM
Okay, people don't like them. That's fine, you're all entitled to your opinions but just because we enjoy them doesn't mean we're blinded by nostalgia, in fact, outside of the theme tune, I don't actually remember watching it as a kid.

ProactiveMan
04-24-2017, 04:21 AM
War on negativity?!... are we looking at the same internet? If anything I see a celebration of negativity; an entire economy built around negativity. Look at YouTube - every other video features someone ripping something to shreds for the amusement of others, and with any luck, fat stack of Google dollars.

Old media is the same; just a bunch of psychopaths having one way conversations, and either shouting or laughing derisively at people for the edification of their rage-addicted patrons.

If you're noticing a backlash against negativity, it may be from people who have had a gut-full of it. There is so much negativity around, that your contribution may be the straw that broke the camel's back. It's OK to dislike things, but once you've made that clear it's time to ask yourself if you have anything else to contribute to the conversation. If you're just reaffirming your dislike, then maybe find something more constructive to do.

Something also worth considering is that when people appear outwardly positive, and perhaps overly positive, they may be keeping their more negative opinions to themselves for various reasons. Maybe they don't think they're worth adding to the conversation, or maybe they don't want to throw a wet blanket over other people's fun. Maybe they detest the things you like, but they're too polite to bring it up.

mrmaczaps
04-24-2017, 05:56 AM
there are more than enough people like him to replace him. it really helps keep the peace when you get called a hypocrite, for example ;o)








yep. or the people that feel misguided in supporting something, because they think it's for the good of the franchise.
andthen take it as a personal insult if you dare to dislike it, even in an intelligent way.

Yeah, I mean I can't say everytime i've written that i don't like something that its been super well thought out but two things I try not to do is just hate for the sake of hating it and attacking someone else for their love of it unless provoked. Haha I do sometimes however joke about it with the folks who constantly just post "but I love it! Its so amazing!" without saying why... If I have to list off reasons why something is bad for it to matter, same applies for liking it...

Prowler
04-24-2017, 06:18 AM
I didn't like the Bay Turtle stuff at all. But I never talk about it. What I'd say about them millions of people have said it already. No point beating a dead over. Besides, I'd rather pretend those movies never even existed in the first place.

plastroncafe
04-24-2017, 07:28 AM
If anything Leia was the first mainstream, big-budget, genre franchise character to popularize the one token female is enough trope. One-quarter is not the same as 1/2.

If folks want to hold up a female character as an example of how to make female-lead movies, a better example is Ripley. She was at least actual the main protagonist of her flick.

Or Sarah Connor.

Vegita-San
04-24-2017, 08:33 AM
War on negativity?!... are we looking at the same internet? If anything I see a celebration of negativity; an entire economy built around negativity. Look at YouTube - every other video features someone ripping something to shreds for the amusement of others, and with any luck, fat stack of Google dollars.

Old media is the same; just a bunch of psychopaths having one way conversations, and either shouting or laughing derisively at people for the edification of their rage-addicted patrons.

If you're noticing a backlash against negativity, it may be from people who have had a gut-full of it. There is so much negativity around, that your contribution may be the straw that broke the camel's back. It's OK to dislike things, but once you've made that clear it's time to ask yourself if you have anything else to contribute to the conversation. If you're just reaffirming your dislike, then maybe find something more constructive to do.

Something also worth considering is that when people appear outwardly positive, and perhaps overly positive, they may be keeping their more negative opinions to themselves for various reasons. Maybe they don't think they're worth adding to the conversation, or maybe they don't want to throw a wet blanket over other people's fun. Maybe they detest the things you like, but they're too polite to bring it up.


that there is. what i'm mostly focusing on, is what people deem as a negativity. mainly, something they don't like. and if it's something they don't personally like, they tend to go ape crap, or insulting on you, where as not more than 5 years earlier, it either would have been ignored, or responded to totally normally, or differently.

FredWolfLeonardo
04-24-2017, 08:54 AM
The greatest irony is that people against negativity respond to it with even more negativity.

plastroncafe
04-24-2017, 09:03 AM
The greatest irony is that people against negativity respond to it with even more negativity.

That's because only attention seeking tools enjoy crapping on things, rather than saying: I don't like this thing and here's why.

Vegita-San
04-24-2017, 09:41 AM
The greatest irony is that people against negativity respond to it with even more negativity.

bingo.

and it's usually not intelligent negativity. it's 'you insulted something i like, so i throw some buzz words at you, insult you personally, and move on, thinking this proves my point' ;o)

Coola Yagami
04-24-2017, 11:03 AM
bingo.

and it's usually not intelligent negativity. it's 'you insulted something i like, so i throw some buzz words at you, insult you personally, and move on, thinking this proves my point' ;o)

Oh no, you triggered bro? Want some fries for all that salt?

Vegita-San
04-24-2017, 11:06 AM
I wish i payed more attention to buzz words to brilliantly reply to that, but i've learned to block them all out.


you would have gotten a 100% if you used the more annoying 'bruh' though. Like someone is too lazy to type out bro and it takes more work with one extra letter ;o)

Andrew NDB
04-24-2017, 11:08 AM
Or Sarah Connor.

She died of leukemia.

Vegita-San
04-24-2017, 11:18 AM
She died of leukemia.

are you sure it wasn't a tooma?

plastroncafe
04-24-2017, 11:18 AM
She died of leukemia.

Not in the only good movie of that series, she didn't.

mrmaczaps
04-24-2017, 03:35 PM
that there is. what i'm mostly focusing on, is what people deem as a negativity. mainly, something they don't like. and if it's something they don't personally like, they tend to go ape crap, or insulting on you, where as not more than 5 years earlier, it either would have been ignored, or responded to totally normally, or differently.

Cough*8 years ago*cough

Lol. In all seriousness, most of the people that jumped up my @$$ for not liking the Bay movies (and MOS/BvS) only had to say "but I liked it" or "get over it" or some other such version of their opinion... but nothing to the point of the writing or costume design or anything like that...

I don't care if people like films or anything I don't like, but cussin me out or calling me crazy doesn't help your cause at all.

Party on dudes.

Coola Yagami
04-27-2017, 10:17 AM
Cough*8 years ago*cough

Lol. In all seriousness, most of the people that jumped up my @$$ for not liking the Bay movies (and MOS/BvS) only had to say "but I liked it" or "get over it" or some other such version of their opinion... but nothing to the point of the writing or costume design or anything like that...

I don't care if people like films or anything I don't like, but cussin me out or calling me crazy doesn't help your cause at all.

Party on dudes.

Exactly. Some movies are just... bad. And it's ok to say so even if it's based on some preexisting property some people want so desperately to succeed. And you can be a fan but not be obligated at gunpoint to like every single thing that comes out.

Again, I don't see anyone shouting 'you're not a real Marvel fan!!' for not liking the last Fant4Stic movie, nor is anyone saying 'you're not a real DC fan!!' For not liking Green Lantern Ryan Reynolds cgi show.

Although the DC fans have been frothing at the mouth lately but their movies just haven't been that good. I did like Man of Steel, but he deserved a true sequel. BvS was a mess. The Squad was good but didn't need the Joker except flashbacks, and it would have fared better not being connected to the DCCU.

Wonder Woman, i want to be good. I want it to succeed. However its has being part of the DCCU mess going against it and honestly, she had no business being in BVS. This should be her big solo standalone film and i hope it's awesome. Batman had like 7 standalone movies, Wondie can't have at least one without it being connected to the Justice League?

But if it flops, I can already hear 'you're not a true DC fan!!' and 'you're sexist and only hate it cause a woman is in the lead role' comments that will be flooding all over social media.


And that's the sheep mentality. You're to like/hate what everyone else does because it's what's currently #trending or there's something wrong with you. You can only change your mind if it suddenly becomes #cool to do so. Hell you can even say #thoughtBayTurtlessuckedbeforeitwascool. It's nonsense. Don't follow the trends. Just do you.

Vegita-San
04-27-2017, 10:25 AM
Exactly. Some movies are just... bad. And it's ok to say so even if it's based on some preexisting property some people want so desperately to succeed. And you can be a fan but not be obligated at gunpoint to like every single thing that comes out.

Again, I don't see anyone shouting 'you're not a real Marvel fan!!' for not liking the last Fant4Stic movie, nor is anyone saying 'you're not a real DC fan!!' For not liking Green Lantern Ryan Reynolds cgi show.

Although the DC fans have been frothing at the mouth lately but their movies just haven't been that good. I did like Man of Steel, but he deserved a true sequel. BvS was a mess. The Squad was good but didn't need the Joker except flashbacks, and it would have fared better not being connected to the DCCU.

Wonder Woman, i want to be good. I want it to succeed. However its has being part of the DCCU mess going against it and honestly, she had no business being in BVS. This should be her big solo standalone film and i hope it's awesome. Batman had like 7 standalone movies, Wondie can't have at least one without it being connected to the Justice League?

But if it flops, I can already hear 'you're not a true DC fan!!' and 'you're sexist and only hate it cause a woman is in the lead role' comments that will be flooding all over social media.


oh, those have already started.

on other forums, some people are already frothing at the mouth just WAITING for someone to say something they deem wrong so they can attack them for it.

I'd like wonder woman to be good too. and it's also time for a batgirl movie. but i don't want it because some women feel the need for a power trip and produce a movie just to produce a movie. or some men like that, for that matter too... i want it to becoming out naturally and planned and well thought out and with people who care about the property.

but s adly that also happens less and less these days.

Coola Yagami
04-27-2017, 10:29 AM
Everything is about some kind of agenda nowadays.

Yo Hollywood if the reason for releasing a movie based on 'xyz' is for any other reason than 'xyz is awesome, it would make an awesome movie' then you're already doing it wrong.

Sure money is the name of the game, but for some reason they keep forgetting that great movies make boatloads.

Can you imagine how much more the Bayformers movies would make if they were actually good? Stupid rich indeed.

Netkeeper
04-27-2017, 12:35 PM
This thread title is dumb

There is no WAR wow wtf way to be over-dramatic about people on the internet disagreeing with you about a thing, get over it

Vegita-San
04-27-2017, 12:43 PM
that's exactly the kind of reaction that prompted this thread ;o)

just rephrase that into a movie review thread reply.

like this.


'I'm not a fan of the new star wars. i feel that it retreads things too much and it's not covering new ground. but over all, i enjoyed it'...

'Wow, your opinion sucks. i spit on your grave and everything you stand for. you're also a jerk. I loved the movie, and i can't wait for more! why can't we all have the same opinion?'

now, imagine that 25 times a day, and enjoy the reason for the thread :)

Netkeeper
04-27-2017, 01:56 PM
I literally said none of those things. I said your thread title is dumb and you should get over yourself. You go into areas where people talk about those things and expect good responses when you fling ****? Are you MAD?

At least I fully expect angry responses when I say 2k12 sucks

DarthRaphael
04-27-2017, 03:16 PM
Responding negatively to troll thread by locking it.