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Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-01-2017, 03:17 PM
If the turtles (or any character who was first an ordinary Earth-animal, like Mirage-Image Splinter even if the mutagen works in another way in Mirage-Image) are mutated back to ordinary turtles by the mutagen, would that cause them to lose their human-like intelligence and talking-abilities? I think of any TMNT-version, but mostly the 1987-1996 animated TV-series.

I always thought so until watching "Bye, Bye Fly", where those mutated keep their ingelligence and keeps on talking. But maybe that's different because it was a ray and not ordinary mutagen.

Andrew NDB
05-01-2017, 03:23 PM
If the turtles (or any character who was first an ordinary Earth-animal, like Mirage-Splinter) are mutated back to ordinary turtles by the mutagen, would that cause them to lose their human-like intelligence and talking-abilities? I think of any TMNT-version, but mostly the 1987-1996 animated TV-series.

I always thought so until watching "Bye, Bye Fly", where those mutated keep their ingelligence and keeps on talking. But maybe that's different because it was a ray and not ordinary mutagen.

I would think, #1, it probably shouldn't be possible to revert back to a normal animal and, #2, IF it was possible, then yes, they would lose all memories and sentience. Little tiny turtle or rat heads simply don't contain enough brain matter to house that kind of intelligence. Furthermore, if said de-mutated animal was then RE-mutated, while they'd regain their sentience, no, they wouldn't magically regain their old memories. Maybe fleeting echoes, if anything.

Unfortunately, this very thing happened in "The River" at Mirage, so I guess that's a thing.

neatoman
05-01-2017, 03:45 PM
You know, talking about wheter or not the Turtles can become normal again, I'm reminded of a cartoon I saw once. I can't remember anything else about it (literally, not even the artstyle) but I can remember the premise the episode.

Some kids accidentally makes beetles grow into giants, when they ask how to return them to normal size they're told that's impossible and have to come up with a way to deal with the beetles as giants. For show I can't remember anything else about that really stuck with me, normally a kids' show (and even some media for adults) would just pretend such a thing is reverseable.

IndigoErth
05-01-2017, 03:52 PM
Pretty much agree with the points Andrew made. I never assumed they'd keep their intelligence if they were somehow reverted back.

Although on a related note, I kind of hate the suggesting of mutagen remaining in their blood stream and they need it to exist/survive. Looking at you PD and Nick.


Hard to explain away anything the 87 series did. I think a ray also once turned Mikey into a talking guinea pig for a minute?

Andrew NDB
05-01-2017, 04:12 PM
Although on a related note, I kind of hate the suggesting of mutagen remaining in their blood stream and they need it to exist/survive. Looking at you PD and Nick.

I never thought that was a bad idea in itself... though a little nonsensical (wouldn't their bodies eventually just metabolize it and expel it as waste, the same way our bodies do alcohol, or drugs, or anything else?). It's also pretty silly to imagine that I could, like, stab Raphael in the arm, drink his blood and suddenly start mutating. There's no way it works that way, but whatever.

Gary Carlson was foreshadowing a big storyline in volume 3 if you look close. You see how it was mentioned that Leatherhead's mutation was destabilizing, causing him to "lose" himself mentally a bit gradually? That was going to come back in a big way, with it happening to the Turtles later. He never got to do that, of course, though it's interesting that that's exactly what Peter continued to have happen to Leatherhead in volume 4 (become more bestial, less sentient)... I suspect it was a note to Gary from Peter that spurred that in volume 3, but I can't prove that and no one remembers anything now.

There's also NT:TNM. It was widely mentioned that their appearance in that was supposed to represent their "continued mutation," though not a whisper of that was mentioned in-story.

Also pretty much all of the drafts for the horrible TMNT 4 that never happened had each of the Turtles and Splinter being able to morph into a second mutation, seemingly at will.

IndigoErth
05-01-2017, 04:25 PM
It's also pretty silly to imagine that I could, like, stab Raphael in the arm, drink his blood and suddenly start mutating.
For that matter, if a non-mutant was giving one of them medical aid that involved blood, I guess they'd have to be treated with similar caution like an HIV/AIDS patient if it somehow worked that way?

Yeah, definitely agree it would make sense for the body to get rid of it over time.

pferreira
05-04-2017, 01:16 PM
Also pretty much all of the drafts for the horrible TMNT 4 that never happened had each of the Turtles and Splinter being able to morph into a second mutation, seemingly at will.Which more or less ended up in the Red Sky seasons of TMNT.