PDA

View Full Version : Did anyone else feel Super Shredder was a little unnecessary


Groverman62
05-05-2017, 08:22 PM
I mean, the cool thing about Shredder of this show is that, in a series filled with these huge hulking and in some cases super powered mutants, he was a regular human, and yet way more badass than any of them. Having him be become a huge brute of a mutant himself felt like overkill.

Any other thought?

CyberCubed
05-05-2017, 08:50 PM
I liked it well enough. I would have liked to see the Turtles beat Shredder at least once in his normal human form though, only Splinter ever did that.

The only alternative to that was supernatural/demon Shredder, but we got that with Kavaxas and other characters.

snake
05-05-2017, 09:28 PM
No.


(10char)

FredWolfLeonardo
05-05-2017, 10:03 PM
Although I prefer regular Shredder's design, I think they used his super form perfectly.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
05-05-2017, 10:30 PM
As someone who actually hasn't watched it, I do think mutating Shredder undermines his threat as a character. Seeing the Turtles outmatched by a well-trained human is more satisfying for me than seeing them outmatched by a massive mutant.

But I'm open to changing my mind whenever I get around to watching it someday.

Wildcat
05-06-2017, 01:43 AM
Well I suppose it would have been nice to see the turtles beat him once as normal Shredder but no I don't think it was unnecessary. He was really cool. Wanting to become an invincible monster fit the character.

neatoman
05-06-2017, 05:11 AM
Kind of not really but sort of yes, in theory I'm not against him getting more powerful, raising the stakes and all that. That said however...

The design is laughably ugly, the ability to shoot out spikes from the hands is unintentionally(?) hilarious and his reasons for wanting the mutation basically came out of nowhere. He got a few nerve pinches that weren't initially given a second thought within the episode it happened, and he's crippled beyond normal treatment? The hell?

FredWolfLeonardo
05-06-2017, 07:25 AM
He got a few nerve pinches that weren't initially given a second thought within the episode it happened, and he's crippled beyond normal treatment? The hell?

I guess thats the true power of the Kur-Lee maneuver.

Vegita-San
05-06-2017, 07:56 AM
yes.

the turtles never stood a chance against REGULAR shredder, and hardly ever fought him. there was no need for super shredder, that april would battle no less.

Aaronardo
05-06-2017, 11:34 AM
I give this show a lot of sh*t, but I thought it was a pretty cool way to serve as a climax for Shredder's arc. Super Shredder represents his completed transformation into a monster that started to form the night he killed Shen. Just like how half of his face was burned that night marking the beginning of the monster consuming him, Super Shredder represents full consumption. A fact the show itself thankfully pointed out.

neatoman
05-06-2017, 12:06 PM
Some further thoughts on the design, just what the hell am I looking at? Blades out the elbows, blades out the opposite side, blades blades out between the toes, blades out the heels, long toenails, tumors and no lips? Did the character designer just rework a child's drawing?

https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/6/60/IMG_3489.JPG/revision/latest?cb=20161011130443

FredWolfLeonardo
05-06-2017, 12:11 PM
I think its ugly and grotesque too but in a way that makes his portrayal even more effective as a pure, unlikable monster. The excessive spikes are ridiculous, but in a way where I find it memorable for how over the top it is. I don't think that final fight in Owari would be anywhere as vivid in my mind if Leonardo fought regular Shredder or a more normal looking Super Shredder.

My favourite part is his mask and how you can see his facial features underneath.

Vegita-San
05-06-2017, 12:18 PM
Some further thoughts on the design, just what the hell am I looking at? Blades out the elbows, blades out the opposite side, blades blades out between the toes, blades out the heels, long toenails, tumors and no lips? Did the character designer just rework a child's drawing?

https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/6/60/IMG_3489.JPG/revision/latest?cb=20161011130443

it's just another Gross monster design this show seems to love.

although i guess in this case, it's rather appropriate as others have stated.

this show just over did it with the gross designs by this point though...

CyberCubed
05-06-2017, 12:28 PM
It's better than the Movie 2 incarnation where he just grows 2 feet and his armor mutates with him somehow.

FredWolfLeonardo
05-06-2017, 12:32 PM
If Shredder gets resurrected for the season 5 finale which could be the crossover (like how Utrom Shredder gets brought back in Turtles Forever), I'd prefer he come back in his normal form rather than Super Shredder since thats his established look for 4 seasons while Super Shredder appeared for only 6 episodes.

Even in the season 5 theme song, they show a picture of Normal Shredder rather than his Super form and in the ending frame for the first episode, they show a picture of his normal form looking over Tiger Claw/Kavaxas even though resurrected Zombie Shredder looked like his super form.

PApagreg
05-06-2017, 12:35 PM
I'm not really against the idea but I do feel that the writers should have shown the turtles defeating human Shredder. It was kinda jarring how well the turtles were doing against super shredder when not long ago they could barely hold their own with normal Shredder.

FredWolfLeonardo
05-06-2017, 12:43 PM
There's still the chance of Normal Shredder appearing again in the crossover brought back by his 80s counterpart so I wouldn't count out the possibility of a final battle with him just yet.

We know the crossover is 3 episodes long. What are they gonna do with that much screen-time? Having just 80s Shredder, B and R could easily fit into 1 episode. They could also give the mirage turtles more screen time but that still doesn't seem enough to fill up 3 episodes. My bets are that 2k12 Shredder will come back somehow like turtles forever.

GoldMutant
05-06-2017, 01:26 PM
It's been a small while since I been here, but why not. It's been on my mind.

I'm kinda in the same boat with Aaron in terms of Shredder's character. This may very well be the best Shredder, if not a top contender for certain. They really built him up as a monster, climaxing with the transformation into Super Shredder. I'm not a huge fan of Owari personally, but it would've been a suitable finale despite a few loose ends needing to be tied up. Leo finally pays back Shredder for his injury, avenges Splinter, it's all rather solid. Still wish it were a group effort though.

However, I can't say I like the design nor the number of appearances of the beast himself. For the former, I understand him coming across as a monster, both figuratively and literally. Just something about the bulk though makes it a little too grotesque for my liking. It's not "bad" per say, but it doesn't do it for me.

The latter though is my own bias speaking. Shredder's lack of appearances does remind the viewer how dangerous he is, especially in dialogue. However, besides the Turtles not beating Shredder in his regular state (which could've fueled his insanity further), I really didn't like how Super Shredder appeared at the end of season 4. Only four main appearances (and a cameo in a fifth) of the remaining seven episodes were about him. That's fine, but I feel if the space arc wasn't that long, it could've given more time to Shredder's descent, especially if Earth's Last Stand were a two parter and they defeated Shredder compared to the pressure points by Splinter. A huge what-if scenario in my eyes if experimented with. It's mostly the same issues I had with the Triceratons at the end of season 3; it's cool to see them, but they didn't fit the story of season 3 for the most part. Super Shredder is fine in season 4, but a little tacked on.

Not too bad a concept to use him, just feel the execution of Super Shredder could've been held off a little longer or given him a bit more screen time. Whether it be fleshing out the Foot or the Turtles beating regular Shredder, just feels a little more could've been done for the build up.

CyberCubed
05-06-2017, 01:33 PM
Super Shredder only appeared in about 6 episodes from what I recall, it's not like he was overused in this form either.

ssjup81
05-06-2017, 02:18 PM
No, not really. I like how it symbolized just how far gone mentally he was and how it was a physical way of showing just how much of a literal monster he became. The show did a great job of showing this.

GoldMutant
05-06-2017, 02:25 PM
Super Shredder only appeared in about 6 episodes from what I recall, it's not like he was overused in this form either.

5 episodes as I said. (If you count the first glimpse of mutating in Insecta Trifecta, then six.)


The Super Shredder
Darkest Plight
The Tale of Tiger Claw (brief cameo)
Requiem
Owari

MCLeo28
05-06-2017, 07:14 PM
I think it was done very effectively since it was symbolic of Shredder's transformation into a monster in a literal sense and effectively showed how deranged and obsessed Shredder was with pursuing his revenge; even going as far as to turn into something he loathed the most. It was handled very well and was effectively illustrated from his debut up until his final battle with the turtles.

ABrown
05-06-2017, 08:11 PM
Personally, I think Super Shredder was a perfect fit for this series. I think he was a better fit than regular Shredder was.

Andrew NDB
05-06-2017, 09:29 PM
Personally, I think Super Shredder was a perfect fit for this series.

Seeing as how every human in the show either becomes a mutant or has some mutagen origins, of course. There was never a doubt in my mind we'd eventually see SuperShredder.

DestronMirage22
05-07-2017, 12:24 AM
Seemed pretty unnecessary to me.
But I guess they did it to make people care more for him before his untimely demise (and like that lasted long).
And also for the most important reason these days: to sell more toys.

kelligrafie
05-08-2017, 04:41 PM
But I guess they did it to make people care more for him before his untimely demise (and like that lasted long).

I dunno, I mean he turned on Karai. He took away his ability to feel emotion and therefore removed the last of his humanity, the one thing that gave him the slightest chance of redemption.

After that nobody in the audience could genuinely feel sorry for him, because there wasn't enough human in him to be pitied.

At least like people say, it was covered in five episodes so if you didn't like Super Shredder, it wasn't dragged out over infinite episodes like 'the' love triangle.

THGhost
05-08-2017, 09:08 PM
Not particularly. He had to evolve somehow.

Tetsu Deinonychus
05-13-2017, 11:09 AM
I could have done without it, but I don't mind that they did it.

I guess the "becoming a monster" thing makes it work.

MCLeo28
05-13-2017, 11:37 AM
I dunno, I mean he turned on Karai. He took away his ability to feel emotion and therefore removed the last of his humanity, the one thing that gave him the slightest chance of redemption.

After that nobody in the audience could genuinely feel sorry for him, because there wasn't enough human in him to be pitied.

At least like people say, it was covered in five episodes so if you didn't like Super Shredder, it wasn't dragged out over infinite episodes like 'the' love triangle.

Well that's the point. The audience can reconcile with something that has been established over the course of the series, the fact that he's pure evil and a monster which made it imperative that Shredder was stopped once and for all.

Don't tell me that Shredder's conflict of being a monster (brought up by Leo) in Owari isn't a memorable sequence, it certainly was and showed some remorse and humanity on Shredder's part.

Candy Kappa
05-13-2017, 11:44 AM
I wasn't a fan of it, and I thought the design was a bit on the sillier side of Nick TMNT monster designs. but, at least it was handled well enough story-wise.

BubblyShell22
05-13-2017, 04:08 PM
No, I think it was necessary to show how far Shredder stooped to get his revenge by becoming the thing he despised the most. He wanted to eliminate his enemies and he felt the best way to do it was to become more powerful as a mutant and possible remain on equal footing with the Turtles in a way.

myconius
05-25-2017, 03:46 PM
i agree with those saying that Mutating Shredder was unnecessary.

if the Turtles had a hard time beating the Shredder as a human, having them fight a monstrous Super Shredder was just overkill.

the only way the Turtles should have been able to defeat Super Shredder would have been by feeding him those Hostess Turtle Pies from the 90's.

CyberCubed
05-25-2017, 03:54 PM
The way the Turtles were shown beating Super Shredder worked well. They used his huge bulking size against him and it was obvious he couldn't use any of his ninjitsu moves in his mutated form, so it's believeable they were able to defeat him while they had trouble when he was human.

PApagreg
05-26-2017, 12:17 AM
The way the Turtles were shown beating Super Shredder worked well. They used his huge bulking size against him and it was obvious he couldn't use any of his ninjitsu moves in his mutated form, so it's believeable they were able to defeat him while they had trouble when he was human.

I don't know the dude was really agile despite his hulking size, we saw him do kicks and jumps during his final encounter with the turtles. Hell you can barely say he lost any agility from his new form since this Shredder wasn't really much of a flashy fighter only using strikes and grabs.

FredWolfLeonardo
05-26-2017, 12:37 AM
I don't know the dude was really agile despite his hulking size, we saw him do kicks and jumps during his final encounter with the turtles. Hell you can barely say he lost any agility from his new form since this Shredder wasn't really much of a flashy fighter only using strikes and grabs.

In the beginning of Requeim, he showed that he has all of ninjitsu skills intact when he fought against the Karai hologram. Super Shredder was an upgrade from normal Shredder in every way physically but lost all of his morality.

PApagreg
05-26-2017, 12:44 AM
In the beginning of Requeim, he showed that he has all of ninjitsu skills intact when he fought against the Karai hologram. Super Shredder was an upgrade from normal Shredder in every way physically but lost all of his morality.

What morality, the dude was willing to sacrifice the Earth just to fulfill his petty revenge, the dude was pretty much irredeemable by the middle of season 3.

FredWolfLeonardo
05-26-2017, 12:53 AM
i agree with those saying that Mutating Shredder was unnecessary.

if the Turtles had a hard time beating the Shredder as a human, having them fight a monstrous Super Shredder was just overkill.

the only way the Turtles should have been able to defeat Super Shredder would have been by feeding him those Hostess Turtle Pies from the 90's.

In the beginning of season 1, they definetly got completely destroyed by him in their first confrontation but it didn't stay that way throughout the series. As time went on, they were able to get more hits on him. It didn't get to the point of them easily beating Shredder like the orignal cartoon, but you could definetly notice when by season 3, Leonardo was usually the one to fight Shredder single handedly and even managed to hold his own.

To me, Super Shredder made sense because by the end of season 4, the turtles had significantly improved in their ninja skills and had already fought so many dangerous enemies like Lord Dregg, the Triceratons, Kraang Subprime, giant 80s Krang, the Mega Shredder, Armaggon that Regular Shredder would've seemed somewhat underwhelming compared to them.

FredWolfLeonardo
05-26-2017, 12:57 AM
What morality, the dude was willing to sacrifice the Earth just to fulfill his petty revenge, the dude was pretty much irredeemable by the middle of season 3.

What I mean is that in season 3 as a human, he still had the capability to turn his ways but by the time he mutated, he was a mindless monster incapable of emotional reaction.

victory_angel
05-26-2017, 02:12 PM
What I mean is that in season 3 as a human, he still had the capability to turn his ways but by the time he mutated, he was a mindless monster incapable of emotional reaction.

Exactly. Splinter would never really kill Shredder, the only times he attempted to do so was during Showdown and Owari. The other confrontations he has left Shredder alive partly because he is the only person from his past he truely has left. Yes there is Karai, but Karai was only a baby when Splinter knew her so she's just as much as a nuance in his life as the Turtles where she is currently.

Splinter also allows Shredder to live so that Karma can run its course or he still has some chance of seeking to redeem some honor, which would likely be performing sepuku.

FredWolfLeonardo
05-26-2017, 03:48 PM
Exactly. Splinter would never really kill Shredder, the only times he attempted to do so was during Showdown and Owari. The other confrontations he has left Shredder alive partly because he is the only person from his past he truely has left. Yes there is Karai, but Karai was only a baby when Splinter knew her so she's just as much as a nuance in his life as the Turtles where she is currently.

Splinter also allows Shredder to live so that Karma can run its course or he still has some chance of seeking to redeem some honor, which would likely be performing sepuku.

It is also worth noting that Splinters first reaction upon seeing Super Shredder was to respond with concern and offer to help him end his mutation, to which Shredder refused and attacked him.

I think the final nail in the coffin was in Requiem when Shredder's evil had taken him so far that he ordered Stockman to inject him with more mutagen that would ultimately destroy all emotional reaction within. That way, he had given up his soul for good and essentially was nothing but a mindless killing machine.

In his final confrontation with Leonardo, the Shredder seemed to hesitate when Leonardo asked him whether his destiny was to be a monster but then immediately started attacking again impulsively. Its as if his soul deep down was trapped and suffering in hell, unable to affect his body and regretful, but it was far too late to change as his body had become what his spirit was throughout the series, the embodiment of evil.

victory_angel
05-26-2017, 08:07 PM
It is also worth noting that Splinters first reaction upon seeing Super Shredder was to respond with concern and offer to help him end his mutation, to which Shredder refused and attacked him.

I think the final nail in the coffin was in Requiem when Shredder's evil had taken him so far that he ordered Stockman to inject him with more mutagen that would ultimately destroy all emotional reaction within. That way, he had given up his soul for good and essentially was nothing but a mindless killing machine.

In his final confrontation with Leonardo, the Shredder seemed to hesitate when Leonardo asked him whether his destiny was to be a monster but then immediately started attacking again impulsively. It's as if his soul deep down was trapped and suffering in hell, unable to affect his body and regretful, but it was far too late to change as his body had become what his spirit was throughout the series, the embodiment of evil.

And that is what drove him to take Kavaxas back into hell with him with the final words of "You and I don't belong in this world, Demon!"

I've mentioned this before, but in the Buddist views of the afterlife, you go through many long and unpleasant trials on your journey through the underworld. On this journey, you also face judgment at the hands of four judges before you face the lord of the underworld, Enma Dioh (King Yama for DBZ fans).

When you face King Enma he weighs the reports of the other four judges to determine where you will ultimately be placed and then shows you a full-length mirror that reflects your life back at you, and clearly defines all your crimes and transgressions. So Shredder would be forced to look at his life and realize that he was the author of his own missery.

Tetsu Deinonychus
05-27-2017, 11:23 AM
Well, King Yama if you prefer his Indian Sanskrit name over his Japanese name. But, yeah, you're right.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-28-2017, 04:25 AM
I guess a mutant Super Shredder was an easier way of allowing the turtles to kill Shredder off without complainings.

Hamato Yoshi
05-28-2017, 07:16 AM
As someone who actually hasn't watched it, I do think mutating Shredder undermines his threat as a character. Seeing the Turtles outmatched by a well-trained human is more satisfying for me than seeing them outmatched by a massive mutant.

But I'm open to changing my mind whenever I get around to watching it someday.

This.

Also why would he risk his life anyway.....what if something went wrong during mutation , I mean he's no dummy and should know it's too risky.

Sorry but I thought you guys were talking about TMNT II , my bad. I had no idea he was Super Shredder on Nick toon :P

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-28-2017, 07:42 AM
At least I wasn't surprised once Super Shredder showed up.

victory_angel
05-29-2017, 02:56 AM
This.

Also why would he risk his life anyway.....what if something went wrong during mutation , I mean he's no dummy and should know it's too risky.

Sorry but I thought you guys were talking about TMNT II , my bad. I had no idea he was Super Shredder on Nick toon :P

He was warned numerous times that the mutagen was dangerous and unstable. Even when he was finalizing his mutation he was warned that injecting himself in mass would be dangerous. But he was to blinded by his anger and his desires for revenge that he refused to listen to reason.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-29-2017, 04:34 PM
He was warned numerous times that the mutagen was dangerous and unstable. Even when he was finalizing his mutation he was warned that injecting himself in mass would be dangerous. But he was to blinded by his anger and his desires for revenge that he refused to listen to reason.

And that's what became his death. Of course, it was meant to be that. His own obsession with destroying the turtles led to himself being destroyed by them.

shredder orokusaki
05-31-2017, 05:21 AM
i took as many mutagen as i could so i can become the strongest monster of the universe! I wanted to become strongert han all mutants and aliens combined and i did that! Now iam still preparing demons attack on earth with Kavaxas!!!

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-31-2017, 11:59 AM
At least not unnecessary for toy companies...

neatoman
05-31-2017, 12:08 PM
At least not unnecessary for toy companies...

Hah! Yeah, I would not be shocked if this was a last minute change demanded by Playmates.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-31-2017, 12:25 PM
Hah! Yeah, I would not be shocked if this was a last minute change demanded by Playmates.

Also, Super Shredder is part of the original TMNT nostalgia (second live-action film, original videogames) so I guess he's most popular among older toy collectors.