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Panda_Kahn_fan
05-07-2017, 12:53 PM
You know what? I've been on the fence for this for years. But recently, I've been coming more and more of the opinion that the fandom needs to unite behind a single concept for a TMNT reboot. I know we all would like our own little ideas on what a TMNT movie should be. Well, I think we should all try to push the powers that be with a single vision for Ninja Turtles; a gritty, hard, edge of the line riding PG-13-film trilogy, based on Mirage, with martial arts, vengeance, and violence.

Why am I, an avid IDW/Archie fan who's been indifferent to Mirage, pushing for something based (mostly) on the source material? Because I'm sick of the maltreatment of the turtles. I hated what bay did to them, and something based on the original comics would at least be entertaining, and a step up from four Shreks who learned martial arts from a book. And what of the goal of getting the Fred Wolf characters in a film? As bad as the movie was, we got that goal, mission accomplished; Krang, Rocksteady, Bebop, and Vernon have made it to the big screen. We can always pull those DVD/blu-rays out, and see our favorite childhood characters now, and nobody can take that away. Now, it's time to bring some dignity back to the TMNT, and I think Mirage might be the right way forward.

The time is ripe; next years new cartoon might reignite TMNT interest, and it's painfully obvious Micheal Bay and Platinum Dunes have washed their hands of the franchise after OOtS tanked. We know there are people from Viacom watching this board. If the fandom could put aside the 'I want the movie based on this version, I want a movie based on that version!" And try to present a single list of wants for a tmnt film, there is a small, thin, slim chance something might tickle back to the bean counters in power? Now, would something like that change their mind? Of course not! The online fandom is a tiny sliver of their profit margin, it's money that talks to those people, action figures and merchandise. But if a small number of voices could get them glance in that direction, we might all get what we want; box office profit from the adult TMNT fans from a martial arts flick, and toys and merchandise and fast food kids meals from the cartoon.

So, let's see a mirage vol.1 inspired film trilogy. Give us an expanded origin, return to New York, and city at war. Work in Baxter and his mousers, work in Rat King, and Work in Leatherhead somewhere (heck, have him take Zog's place in RtNY, I don't care) The masks? Avoid the whole question, make them black, or something, or whatever. Borrow from other versions if it enhances the story, like reincarnation from IDW. But make a TMNT movie that feels like TMNT, and make it GOOD.

Look, I know this post probably won't unite this fandom, and it probably won't have any affect at all. For making this post I will probably be laughed at, insulted, or worse. I made this post for myself, to get this off my chest after all the arguments, the flame wars, and crud I've seen go on in this fanbase, while the studio churned out two cruddy movies. I'm not a plant, I don't have an agenda, and I don't' care if there are already a million threads talking about this I could've posted in. I wanted to say my piece on the subject of TMNT movies, and I have done so. So in short... I've changed my mind, and let's all unite for a TMNT based on the original work. That is all.

mrmaczaps
05-07-2017, 01:21 PM
You know what? I've been on the fence for this for years. But recently, I've been coming more and more of the opinion that the fandom needs to unite behind a single concept for a TMNT reboot. I know we all would like our own little ideas on what a TMNT movie should be. Well, I think we should all try to push the powers that be with a single vision for Ninja Turtles; a gritty, hard, edge of the line riding PG-13-film trilogy, based on Mirage, with martial arts, vengeance, and violence.

Why am I, an avid IDW/Archie fan who's been indifferent to Mirage, pushing for something based (mostly) on the source material? Because I'm sick of the maltreatment of the turtles. I hated what bay did to them, and something based on the original comics would at least be entertaining, and a step up from four Shreks who learned martial arts from a book. And what of the goal of getting the Fred Wolf characters in a film? As bad as the movie was, we got that goal, mission accomplished; Krang, Rocksteady, Bebop, and Vernon have made it to the big screen. We can always pull those DVD/blu-rays out, and see our favorite childhood characters now, and nobody can take that away. Now, it's time to bring some dignity back to the TMNT, and I think Mirage might be the right way forward.

The time is ripe; next years new cartoon might reignite TMNT interest, and it's painfully obvious Micheal Bay and Platinum Dunes have washed their hands of the franchise after OOtS tanked. We know there are people from Viacom watching this board. If the fandom could put aside the 'I want the movie based on this version, I want a movie based on that version!" And try to present a single list of wants for a tmnt film, there is a small, thin, slim chance something might tickle back to the bean counters in power? Now, would something like that change their mind? Of course not! The online fandom is a tiny sliver of their profit margin, it's money that talks to those people, action figures and merchandise. But if a small number of voices could get them glance in that direction, we might all get what we want; box office profit from the adult TMNT fans from a martial arts flick, and toys and merchandise and fast food kids meals from the cartoon.

So, let's see a mirage vol.1 inspired film trilogy. Give us an expanded origin, return to New York, and city at war. Work in Baxter and his mousers, work in Rat King, and Work in Leatherhead somewhere (heck, have him take Zog's place in RtNY, I don't care) The masks? Avoid the whole question, make them black, or something, or whatever. Borrow from other versions if it enhances the story, like reincarnation from IDW. But make a TMNT movie that feels like TMNT, and make it GOOD.

Look, I know this post probably won't unite this fandom, and it probably won't have any affect at all. For making this post I will probably be laughed at, insulted, or worse. I made this post for myself, to get this off my chest after all the arguments, the flame wars, and crud I've seen go on in this fanbase, while the studio churned out two cruddy movies. I'm not a plant, I don't have an agenda, and I don't' care if there are already a million threads talking about this I could've posted in. I wanted to say my piece on the subject of TMNT movies, and I have done so. So in short... I've changed my mind, and let's all unite for a TMNT based on the original work. That is all.

I agree with most of this except bandanas need to be red and no need for an expanded origin. An opening credits origin: kid with bowl of turtles, truck swerves to avoid a pothole or whatever, ooze canister knocks bowl from kids hands and both end up in sewer... roll credits. Then start the film. The original films could even be a rough prequel so it doesn't have to rehash the origin & Shredder. Like Superman Returns used the first 2 films as kind of a prequel to itself. City at War would make an awesome story for a film and could cover 2 films and the third could go the Image series route.

Cowabunga. Lol.

Ramboraph4life aka Matt
05-07-2017, 02:46 PM
1. Have the 4 Turtles be Actual Characters with their dialogue, emotions, and how they specifically relate to one another (whether on how Mikey & Raph relate to each other, Don & Leo, etc.)...not '1 Dimensional Caricatures'.
2. Have Actual Martial Arts in well-choreographed fashion.
3. Have a movie where it's just the 4 turtles. No April. No Casey. Nothing. You don't need a 'human element' or POV for the audience. Make us see the world through THEIR eyes and POV.
4. The designs of the first two TMNT '90s films are great and were fine. If you want to use new FX/new technology to do them & perhaps enhance them a bit to give a little more differences between each Turtle? That's fine.


Is it hard to do just those 4 things?
Get those 4 things right, and you have something.

Andrew NDB
05-07-2017, 03:19 PM
I would rally behind such a thing. A full about-face is the only real thing they haven't tried.

If such a thing became a movie, the marketing could be amazing, and even drive IDW's reprint sales. "Meet the Original TMNT" docs, viral spots, etc.. Turn the whole idea of what the TMNT are and could be on its head to regular folks, and blow their minds.

Panda_Kahn_fan
05-08-2017, 01:20 PM
Mostly, I agree with all of you. Except we need April there, she's as much a part of the story as the turtles. And personally, the trilogy I think would be best is; Return to New York, Fugitoid arc, then City at War. Those are the three biggest volume one stories, and those are the stories from mirage most fans of other iterations are the most familiar with. And Leatherhead, Rat King, Baxter and the mousers absolutely must be worked in, even if just in minor roles; fans of all versions have been waiting too long for all of those characters. Red Bandannas could be fine, but I think black bandannas would avoid the 'four raphs' question altogether, and makes them feel more people's expectations of 'ninja'.

Andrew NDB
05-08-2017, 01:27 PM
Mostly, I agree with all of you. Except we need April there, she's as much a part of the story as the turtles. And personally, the trilogy I think would be best is; Return to New York, Fugitoid arc, then City at War. Those are the three biggest volume one stories, and those are the stories from mirage most fans of other iterations are the most familiar with. And Leatherhead, Rat King, Baxter and the mousers absolutely must be worked in, even if just in minor roles; fans of all versions have been waiting too long for all of those characters. Red Bandannas could be fine, but I think black bandannas would avoid the 'four raphs' question altogether, and makes them feel more people's expectations of 'ninja'.

That's all fine with me.

Me, I'd be grudgingly OK with the rainbow bandannas (pick your battles, you know, though the last thing TMNT on the big screen needs is a half measure... it needs to go all-in to escape the gravity well of the PD films' brown hole) as long as there's at least a bit with the all-reds.

i.e., big battle scene and the Turtles put on all red bandannas. They're whooshing around a factory/warehouse, trying to get the drop on a room full of like 20, 30 guys. Lights are flickering. The Turtles keep, I dunno, popping out and throwing shuriken at the bad guys (think, the dock scene in Batman Begins, but shuriken and blood and weapons strikes instead of fists and rope). It starts to go on a bit, and the bad guys really freak out, seeing all these red bandannas popping up, disappearing, and popping up again... "How many of them are there??" "I think I got one... sh**, there he is again!" "What happened to Larry? Where'd he go?" "There's ****ing HUNDREDS of them!!! GAHHH!!!" "AHHH!!!" Until they're all picked off.

I think that could be pretty awesome.

DestronMirage22
05-08-2017, 01:41 PM
Yeah, I'd be behind a Mirage based film and would give it my full support.
All these ideas sound great.

Panda_Kahn_fan
05-08-2017, 01:46 PM
The only one that's going to be a glaring problem is going to be 'return to New York'. Although the 1990 film was not a faithful adaptation of this mirage story arc, it shares enough plot points and similarities to 'return to new york' (the Rooftop battle, the antique store burning, flight to the farmhouse, soul searching, and a return for a final fight with shredder), that any attempt to do an adaptation will forever be in the 1990's film's shadow. Even if you did a line-by line scene by scene adaptation of the comic story, the public who've seen the first film will make the comparisons; and any RNTY film they make will forever been seen as a 1990 remake. An adaptation will have to concentrate on the elements the 1990 film omitted, and put it together in a way that feels different than the 1990 film, even if it means making changes to the narrative from mirage.

Andrew NDB
05-08-2017, 01:51 PM
The only one that's going to be a glaring problem is going to be 'return to New York'. Although the 1990 film was not a faithful adaptation of this mirage story arc, it shares enough plot points and similarities to 'return to new york' (the Rooftop battle, the antique store burning, flight to the farmhouse, soul searching, and a return for a final fight with shredder), that any attempt to do an adaptation will forever be in the 1990's film's shadow. Even if you did a line-by line scene by scene adaptation of the comic story, the public who've seen the first film will make the comparisons; and any RNTY film they make will forever been seen as a 1990 remake. An adaptation will have to concentrate on the elements the 1990 film omitted, and put it together in a way that feels different than the 1990 film, even if it means making changes to the narrative from mirage.

The 1990 movie rutted around way more in the Leonardo special, #10, and #11 than anything in "Return to New York." The only RTNY element in it is them physically departing the farmhouse (and not even in remotely the same way), everything else is different.

But who cares? It'd be 30, maybe 35 years after TMNT 1990 by the time a reboot movie comes out.

TurtleWA
05-08-2017, 01:54 PM
That's all fine with me.

Me, I'd be grudgingly OK with the rainbow bandannas (pick your battles, you know, though the last thing TMNT on the big screen needs is a half measure... it needs to go all-in to escape the gravity well of the PD films' brown hole) as long as there's at least a bit with the all-reds.

i.e., big battle scene and the Turtles put on all red bandannas. They're whooshing around a factory/warehouse, trying to get the drop on a room full of like 20, 30 guys. Lights are flickering. The Turtles keep, I dunno, popping out and throwing shuriken at the bad guys (think, the dock scene in Batman Begins, but shuriken and blood and weapons strikes instead of fists and rope). It starts to go on a bit, and the bad guys really freak out, seeing all these red bandannas popping up, disappearing, and popping up again... "How many of them are there??" "I think I got one... sh**, there he is again!" "What happened to Larry? Where'd he go?" "There's ****ing HUNDREDS of them!!! GAHHH!!!" "AHHH!!!" Until they're all picked off.

I think that could be pretty awesome.

That's sounds fun. And reminds me of the final fight in Three Amigos, which was cool. :tsmile:

Panda_Kahn_fan
05-08-2017, 02:05 PM
The 1990 movie rutted around way more in the Leonardo special, #10, and #11 than anything in "Return to New York." The only RTNY element in it is them physically departing the farmhouse (and not even in remotely the same way), everything else is different.

But who cares? It'd be 30, maybe 35 years after TMNT 1990 by the time a reboot movie comes out.

Yeah, I always mistakenly count that as part of the RtnY story because it is an important lead-in to the events of that story. An adaptation would have to touch on the events leading up to it, meaning the leo micro, exile to Northampton, etc. Everything there would have to be streamlined, and told in a way that made sense for a film.

IndigoErth
05-08-2017, 02:10 PM
i.e., big battle scene and the Turtles put on all red bandannas. They're whooshing around a factory/warehouse, trying to get the drop on a room full of like 20, 30 guys. Lights are flickering. The Turtles keep, I dunno, popping out and throwing shuriken at the bad guys (think, the dock scene in Batman Begins, but shuriken and blood and weapons strikes instead of fists and rope). It starts to go on a bit, and the bad guys really freak out, seeing all these red bandannas popping up, disappearing, and popping up again... "How many of them are there??" "I think I got one... sh**, there he is again!" "What happened to Larry? Where'd he go?" "There's ****ing HUNDREDS of them!!! GAHHH!!!" "AHHH!!!" Until they're all picked off.

I think that could be pretty awesome.
Could definitely go for that. While I like them each having their own preferred color in more typical situations, all wearing the same tone - esp red that could denote they mean serious business - is a good battle strategy to throw off their targets.

I think this was brought up before while discussing the Nick show a while back. I suppose they sort of went for that idea by all wearing black when they took down Shredder, but I'd like to see the red used, both for classic reasons and the relation of the color to blood, war, etc. Maybe even brand one tail of the fabric with a Hamato clan or other symbol.

(But then I also want it juxtaposed by them later seen at home, back in their individual colors, and a completely different lovable side of them as a family purposely in sharp contrast.)

pferreira
05-11-2017, 10:26 AM
Well, I think we should all try to push the powers that be with a single vision for Ninja Turtles; a gritty, hard, edge of the line riding PG-13-film trilogy, based on Mirage, with martial arts, vengeance, and violence. Not everyone fan wants gritty and hard violence so I think you just highlighted why fandom can't get behind one concept. :)

mrmaczaps
05-11-2017, 12:30 PM
Not everyone fan wants gritty and hard violence so I think you just highlighted why fandom can't get behind one concept. :)

Thats really the only version fans have yet to see... the 90s fiom wasn't very violent or as dark as it could have been... I'd much rather a netflix series.... spanning volume ones Eastman & Laird stuff... then branch out from there...

Andrew NDB
05-11-2017, 12:39 PM
Thats really the only version fans have yet to see... the 90s fiom wasn't very violent or as dark as it could have been... I'd much rather a netflix series.... spanning volume ones Eastman & Laird stuff... then branch out from there...

Yeah, I'd be more than OK with a balls-out Netflix series. Give us that, then they can release all the PD-like babyish stuff in the theaters they want.

Xav
05-11-2017, 01:32 PM
And Leatherhead, Rat King, Baxter and the mousers absolutely must be worked in, even if just in minor roles; fans of all versions have been waiting too long for all of those characters.We already got Baxter in OOTS, it was a crappy version of Baxter but still.

mrmaczaps
05-11-2017, 01:37 PM
We already got Baxter in OOTS, it was a crappy version of Baxter but still.

Yeah, time for characters who have not been seen to get a shot to shine... no need for Shredder or Krang or Bebop & Rocksteady... can go with a loose timeline of the precious movies as having happened (the 90s ones) where its not really referenced but not wholly contradicted either... some mousers would be cool though...

Panda_Kahn_fan
05-11-2017, 10:54 PM
Yeah, the only reason I want to see Baxter again, is so we can finally get mousers. And one thing I don't think is necessary is following the mirage stories beat for beat. You can restructure the story to fit a movie format, or borrow elements or characters from other mirage stories to work. For example, meeting April and the Saki/yoshi/mutation backstory could be worked into return to NY in flashbacks. One thing I even did when coming up with my own outline for the fugitoid arc, was work Jhanna in as a prisoner in the triceriton gladitorial arena that the Tmnt team up with to escape, and join them for the rest of the film. Yeah yeah I know she was from the 'battle for planetary leader' arc in the comics, but she made a good fighter/supporting character for my outline. The important the is getting the meaning and themes of the comics without watering them down, copy-pasting every single scene and dialogue snippet is not important.

mrmaczaps
05-12-2017, 05:57 AM
Yeah, the only reason I want to see Baxter again, is so we can finally get mousers. And one thing I don't think is necessary is following the mirage stories beat for beat. You can restructure the story to fit a movie format, or borrow elements or characters from other mirage stories to work. For example, meeting April and the Saki/yoshi/mutation backstory could be worked into return to NY in flashbacks. One thing I even did when coming up with my own outline for the fugitoid arc, was work Jhanna in as a prisoner in the triceriton gladitorial arena that the Tmnt team up with to escape, and join them for the rest of the film. Yeah yeah I know she was from the 'battle for planetary leader' arc in the comics, but she made a good fighter/supporting character for my outline. The important the is getting the meaning and themes of the comics without watering them down, copy-pasting every single scene and dialogue snippet is not important.

I'd personally like to not see yet another version of the origin... If they roll a silent origin in the opening credits say an animation of issue ones origin panel for panel... Maybe a screech of tires, some breaking glass and a kid crying "my four baby turtles" and then a splash of green and then end credits... Anyone who WANTS an origin can then go find one of the various reprints of issue #1.... Or a tpb... Also a note to find their local comic book store in the end credits would be good... But superhero movies do not have to always give the origin... Most viewers have an idea already... Move past that and tell a great story.

Panda_Kahn_fan
05-16-2017, 01:19 PM
I'd personally like to not see yet another version of the origin... If they roll a silent origin in the opening credits say an animation of issue ones origin panel for panel... Maybe a screech of tires, some breaking glass and a kid crying "my four baby turtles" and then a splash of green and then end credits... Anyone who WANTS an origin can then go find one of the various reprints of issue #1.... Or a tpb... Also a note to find their local comic book store in the end credits would be good... But superhero movies do not have to always give the origin... Most viewers have an idea already... Move past that and tell a great story.

I'd love to see them do something like that. The origin can be minimized, told very quickly to move onto the main story.

Also, when it comes to city at war, I don't think it should be adaptable as is, plot wise. Yes, keep all of the fighting and violence, but I don't think a lot of the elements would work without the context of being a comic book story arc would translate over to a self contained film. I know most people don't' like the 4kids version of City at War, but I think having Hun and His purple Dragons vs. the mob vs. the foot in a no holds barred bloodbath for control of the city, would be more interesting than foot vs. Foot vs. foot. Keep the Splinter-rat king scenes from the comic as-is, and you could make a really violent, action-packed film!

AquaParade
05-16-2017, 03:09 PM
Of course I can get behind this. There's no guarentee we pull any weight, but there's always a chance to have your voice heard and considered.

My hope right now is for "R" rated films like Logan and Deadpool to have a large "gravitational pull" on the film industry, which even has some effect on properties usually considered for children.
Sure, it may not lead to an "R" rated TMNT flick, but I imagine there will be some type of reverberation that could reach Viacom. A wake up call that audiences can handle a little more grit.

As for taking action, I'm really not sure what we can do other then taking the time to tweet Viacom, Nickelodeon, etc. You hear more and more these days from companies who claim they are "listening to the fans" and "checking the forums". That's one way to go.

pferreira
05-18-2017, 09:03 AM
My hope right now is for "R" rated films like Logan and Deadpool to have a large "gravitational pull" on the film industry, which even has some effect on properties usually considered for children.
Sure, it may not lead to an "R" rated TMNT flick, but I imagine there will be some type of reverberation that could reach Viacom. A wake up call that audiences can handle a little more grit.I can only see it working if they made it in the same tone and style as the 1990 movie which I thought was most faithful. I personally don't see why something needs to be gritty and violent just for the sake of it. I remember the Casey Jones fan movie released a couple of years ago and it took the level of violence much further than the comics did.

We already got Baxter in OOTS, it was a crappy version of Baxter but still.I'll play devils advocate here and ask was his appearance in the PD movie any different to the way he was portrayed in the 4Kids series for example?

neatoman
05-18-2017, 11:07 AM
I'll play devils advocate here and ask was his appearance in the PD movie any different to the way he was portrayed in the 4Kids series for example?

"Was 4kids Baxter laughing non-stop for no reason?"

No, no he wasn't.

pferreira
05-18-2017, 11:12 AM
"Was 4kids Baxter laughing non-stop for no reason?"

No, no he wasn't.Seriously? You want Baxter to be upset? :lol:

neatoman
05-18-2017, 11:30 AM
Seriously? You want Baxter to be upset? :lol:

Such a simple sentence to read, not even ten words long and you misunderstand it... Truly, I'm baffled!

pferreira
05-18-2017, 12:24 PM
Such a simple sentence to read, not even ten words long and you misunderstand it... Truly, I'm baffled!No I answered it correctly. I'm not sure why'd you want to replace a laughing lunatic Baxter with a constantly upset Baxter. It's such a strange nitpick if that's why people didn't like Baxter in the PD movie.

neatoman
05-18-2017, 12:33 PM
No I answered it correctly. I'm not sure why'd you want to replace a laughing lunatic Baxter with a constantly upset Baxter. It's such a strange nitpick if that's why people didn't like Baxter in the PD movie.

Because one of them is a better character?

Weapons@theready
05-18-2017, 12:54 PM
I could definitely go for a edgier Mirage based trilogy. I would go Nolan verse style though and save Shredder for the second movie the way they saved Joker for TDK.

Movie 1: Not an origin, maybe a quick silent montage at the start of the movie to show us how the Turtles came to be. First movie focuses on the Purple Dragons initially but they are brought into contact with Baxter Stockman after the Turtles foil their plans, we get some intense mouser action. The end of the movie reveals that Shredder is behind the Purple Dragons/Stockman connection and he dons his armor saying he will take care of the Hamato clan himself.

Movie 2: Is the classic Foot vs Turtles movie with the Shredder boss battle at the end.

Movie 3: City at War

pferreira
05-18-2017, 01:45 PM
Because one of them is a better character?How?! Both are OTT and annoying. They're both lunatics so they serve the same function so again not sure why both Baxter's are so different.

Candy Kappa
05-18-2017, 01:54 PM
PD Baxter was not like the FW version or the 2k3 Baxter, he was a low-rent Eddie Murphy Nutty Proffessor riff

mrmaczaps
05-18-2017, 02:06 PM
I could definitely go for a edgier Mirage based trilogy. I would go Nolan verse style though and save Shredder for the second movie the way they saved Joker for TDK.

Movie 1: Not an origin, maybe a quick silent montage at the start of the movie to show us how the Turtles came to be. First movie focuses on the Purple Dragons initially but they are brought into contact with Baxter Stockman after the Turtles foil their plans, we get some intense mouser action. The end of the movie reveals that Shredder is behind the Purple Dragons/Stockman connection and he dons his armor saying he will take care of the Hamato clan himself.

Movie 2: Is the classic Foot vs Turtles movie with the Shredder boss battle at the end.

Movie 3: City at War

We could skip Shredder almost completely and I dunno, do something new for the big screen... like Fugitoid & the Triceratons.... Who wouldn't like to see friggen Triceratons on the big screen?!

Movie one is a quick origin & post Shredder recap in the intro, go Purple Dragons and Baxter/mousers & end with Baxters defeat & Fugitoid running to the transmat. Then 2nd film backs up a bit with Fugitoid origin before credits, opening credits show scenes from the last film and Fugitoid transporting to the Turtles or the Turtles to him... and Triceratons... ends with them all going back to earth... third movie Shredder clones in the opening sequence, Karai and the City at War... end that with Utroms coming to earth... if a 4th movie happens, aliens on earth, turtles get to live in the open.... maybe do the v4 mini series, Leo Blind Sight, Donnie Brain Thief, Raph (forget what that ones called...lol) with vampires and well, start with the Mikey mini (third kind) since his deals directly with aliens showing up and them being able to go topside during the day...

We had Shredder in the movie, secret of the ooze and then the two horrid reboot movies... time to move along from him. Plus a 4th movie could give us Che'rell (or whatever) and it could end with him jn the Shredder armor.

neatoman
05-18-2017, 02:08 PM
How?! Both are OTT and annoying. They're both lunatics so they serve the same function so again not sure why both Baxter's are so different.

How is 4Kids Baxter annoying and how is he nearly as annoying?

4Kids Baxter has plans of his own, he's arrogant and plays an active role throughout, not to mention a backstory that informs who he is. OotS Baxter laughed all the time for no reason and was essentially just there to push buttons on a console, that's the difference.

It's honestly shocking that you don't see any important difference.

Andrew NDB
05-18-2017, 02:09 PM
I don't think TMNT can quite afford to do a Batman Begins and withhold the Joker until movie #2, so to speak. It's not Batman.

The way I look at it, we haven't even seen a proper Shredder on the big screen for 30 years, and even then... ehhh, so-so.

Kick the door open with a bad-ass Oroku Saki. That's what I say.

Panda_Kahn_fan
05-18-2017, 02:37 PM
Personally, I'd love to see Leatherhead, rat king, Hun, and a properly done Karai and Baxter as characters in movie one and two, With shredder being a big bad, giving orders and sending the foot out, until he has the fight with the TMNT at the end of the third film. Give hints of his prowess in the first two films- show him fighting in the flashbacks with Yoshi, and sparring with the foot, before breaking him out as a total beast in movie three.

No matter if the franchise is grim and gritty or not, Shredder will ALWAYS be seen as the big bad of the franchise. He should be held off for a big finale, tying up the circle, and bringing vengeance for the death of Yoshi and Shen. You can always follow that with a 'city at war', but he should be given a proper multi-movie buildup.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
05-18-2017, 02:42 PM
Personally, I'd love to see Leatherhead, rat king, Hun, and a properly done Karai and Baxter as characters in movie one and two, With shredder being a big bad, giving orders and sending the foot out, until he has the fight with the TMNT at the end of the third film. Give hints of his prowess in the first two films- show him fighting in the flashbacks with Yoshi, and sparring with the foot, before breaking him out as a total beast in movie three.

No matter if the franchise is grim and gritty or not, Shredder will ALWAYS be seen as the big bad of the franchise. He should be held off for a big finale, tying up the circle, and bringing vengeance for the death of Yoshi and Shen. You can always follow that with a 'city at war', but he should be given a proper multi-movie buildup.

But then you're into Thanos Boredom territory.

"Oh, look, the big scary bad guy hasn't gotten off his damn chair yet. How many more movies do we have to wait?"

Panda_Kahn_fan
05-18-2017, 02:47 PM
But then you're into Thanos Boredom territory.

"Oh, look, the big scary bad guy hasn't gotten off his damn chair yet. How many more movies do we have to wait?"


Mmmm, I think a trilogy wouldn't be too much, no more than that. It just feels like Shredder is too important to the TMNT's story (being the main reason they were trained as ninjas) to just be a one-and-done throwaway. And I think it'd be much smoother to keep him around until the third film in a trilogy, instead of goofy worm clone resurrection. If you absolutely HAVE to throw him out there, have him fight the turtles at the end of Movie 2, then kick the #$%! out of them. Make people anticipate thier return and the rematch in movie 3.

Andrew NDB
05-18-2017, 02:50 PM
Mmmm, I think a trilogy wouldn't be too much, no more than that. It just feels like Shredder is too important to the TMNT's story (being the main reason they were trained as ninjas) to just be a one-and-done throwaway.

That's kind of missing the point. Phase 1 is about killing him, Phase 2 is about "Well crap, what do we do now?" (that's where we can have the badass Triceraton movie, or something with Baxter and Rat King), and Phase 3 is about dealing with the power vacuum left in his wake and closing the circle of vengeance. That's essentially Mirage Vol. 1, in a nutshell.

If he never dies, or dies many movies in, you don't get any of that at all.

Weapons@theready
05-18-2017, 02:50 PM
Honestly I feel if you have badass Saki/Shredder in the first film, then you're better off at leaving it at one film...that being said I would totally be behind a great solo Turtles movie that did the franchise justice rather than a good trilogy. Leave them wanting more

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
05-18-2017, 02:51 PM
Mmmm, I think a trilogy wouldn't be too much, no more than that. It just feels like Shredder is too important to the TMNT's story (being the main reason they were trained as ninjas) to just be a one-and-done throwaway. And I think it'd be much smoother to keep him around until the third film in a trilogy, instead of goofy worm clone resurrection. If you absolutely HAVE to throw him out there, have him fight the turtles at the end of Movie 2, then kick the #$%! out of them. Make people anticipate thier return and the rematch in movie 3.

Let the Foot Clan be his legacy.

Let the ninja, Splinter, the Turtles, the Elite Guard, Pimiko, let them ALL fight for the mantle of the Shredder.

Think of it like Zod. He was in one movie... he casts a long shadow that influences how people see Superman movies later.

Panda_Kahn_fan
05-18-2017, 03:11 PM
That's kind of missing the point. Phase 1 is about killing him, Phase 2 is about "Well crap, what do we do now?" (that's where we can have the badass Triceraton movie, or something with Baxter and Rat King), and Phase 3 is about dealing with the power vacuum left in his wake and closing the circle of vengeance. That's essentially Mirage Vol. 1, in a nutshell.

If he never dies, or dies many movies in, you don't get any of that at all.

Eh, I guess so. :ohwell: I mean, yeah the vengeance angle is the whole point, but it seems a waste to not make the fight with him last a bit longer. But it will be an uphill battle to sell another 'TMNT vs Shredder/beginning' story to the public. It can be done, but it won't be easy. And then getting them to come back after he's killed off for good, that'll be no small task. The first movie will REALLY have to grab people if you're going to retell the Shredder vs TMNT/first meeting storyarc all over again.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
05-18-2017, 03:12 PM
Eh, I guess so. :ohwell: I mean, yeah the vengeance angle is the whole point, but it seems a waste to not make the fight with him last a bit longer. But it will be an uphill battle to sell another 'TMNT vs Shredder/beginning' story to the public. It can be done, but it won't be easy. And then getting them to come back after he's killed off for good, that'll be no small task. The first movie will REALLY have to grab people if you're going to retell the Shredder vs TMNT/first meeting storyarc all over again.

Remember how everyone was skeptical of Daredevil on Netflix? Then they released kickass trailers?

Same solution. It's not a problem.

pferreira
05-18-2017, 03:16 PM
4Kids Baxter has plans of his own, he's arrogant and plays an active role throughout, not to mention a backstory that informs who he is. OotS Baxter laughed all the time for no reason and was essentially just there to push buttons on a console, that's the difference.

It's honestly shocking that you don't see any important difference.I don't see the difference. Both Baxter's had their own evil intentions, both wanted to become famous, both were arrogant. The difference is one was jolly jerk, the other was an angry jerk.

AquaParade
05-20-2017, 07:55 PM
You're all greasin my wheels with all this talk of Triceratons, City at War, and a badass Saki.

:evilgrin:

LeotheLateBloomer
05-20-2017, 11:57 PM
Eh, I guess so. :ohwell: I mean, yeah the vengeance angle is the whole point, but it seems a waste to not make the fight with him last a bit longer. But it will be an uphill battle to sell another 'TMNT vs Shredder/beginning' story to the public. It can be done, but it won't be easy. And then getting them to come back after he's killed off for good, that'll be no small task. The first movie will REALLY have to grab people if you're going to retell the Shredder vs TMNT/first meeting storyarc all over again.

While many consider him the big bad of the property, it's possible to do a movie without him and execute it right. Joe Chill is hardly used in Batman, for the guy responsible for murdering Bruce Wayne's parents.

Technogeek29
05-21-2017, 05:50 AM
If you don't want him as the big bad of the first movie just allude to him as the guy calling the shots in NYC and the main villain of the first movie just answers to him. Or was just funded by the Foot.

2nd movie is a toss up on whether you want the Turtles to face Shredder and lose or Win? I'd say lose and the separation of Splinter can set up the space arcs while the Turtles spend some time in Northampton before returning to NY to defeat him.

Panda_Kahn_fan
05-21-2017, 05:59 AM
Yeah, setting him up in the first one does make sense. Use small fry like the dragons for film one, to give the Tmnt their first victory. Movie two shredder literally destroys them after they come after him to fulfil their mission, and they flee to Northampton to recover. Movie three is your return to NY, and they finally slay him. Movies post trilogy go 'what do we do from here?"

Technogeek29
05-22-2017, 02:53 AM
Yeah, setting him up in the first one does make sense. Use small fry like the dragons for film one, to give the Tmnt their first victory. Movie two shredder literally destroys them after they come after him to fulfil their mission, and they flee to Northampton to recover. Movie three is your return to NY, and they finally slay him. Movies post trilogy go 'what do we do from here?"

Then while the Turtles are in space on Earth you can show how the foundation of NYC is starting to crumble because of the Turtles killing Shredder. April and Casey's relationship (assuming you have them hook up in the first place?) begins to show it's cracks. I would end this with a somewhat happy note like the first one.

5th movie (round of applause if we make it this far) Have April already in California and she recaps the events as to why she is there. 2nd time around gets destroyed by rogue Foots seeking revenge on the Turtles making April cut ties with them. retreating to their lair The Foot follow them and try to cave them in separating Splinter for the Rat King story while the Turtles go to the surface at this point Stockman a new player makes his move and the Mob, Purple Dragons and the Foot all utilize his tech to gain the upper hand while he sits back and makes money off their misfortune. Eventually Karai arrives to help the Turtles gain control.

I didn't include Casey in this heavily as I want him to disappear from the narrative for this one movie and the next one focusing on him trying to piece together his life like April and Turtles before ending with him returning to NY with Shadow (Because the Mirage comics shouldn't be the only version she appears in)

eskater
08-03-2017, 10:06 AM
Not everyone fan wants gritty and hard violence so I think you just highlighted why fandom can't get behind one concept. :)

I don't he meant FULL grit and hard violence hence the PG-13 rating

eskater
08-03-2017, 10:27 AM
You know what? I've been on the fence for this for years. But recently, I've been coming more and more of the opinion that the fandom needs to unite behind a single concept for a TMNT reboot. I know we all would like our own little ideas on what a TMNT movie should be. Well, I think we should all try to push the powers that be with a single vision for Ninja Turtles; a gritty, hard, edge of the line riding PG-13-film trilogy, based on Mirage, with martial arts, vengeance, and violence.

Why am I, an avid IDW/Archie fan who's been indifferent to Mirage, pushing for something based (mostly) on the source material? Because I'm sick of the maltreatment of the turtles. I hated what bay did to them, and something based on the original comics would at least be entertaining, and a step up from four Shreks who learned martial arts from a book. And what of the goal of getting the Fred Wolf characters in a film? As bad as the movie was, we got that goal, mission accomplished; Krang, Rocksteady, Bebop, and Vernon have made it to the big screen. We can always pull those DVD/blu-rays out, and see our favorite childhood characters now, and nobody can take that away. Now, it's time to bring some dignity back to the TMNT, and I think Mirage might be the right way forward.

The time is ripe; next years new cartoon might reignite TMNT interest, and it's painfully obvious Micheal Bay and Platinum Dunes have washed their hands of the franchise after OOtS tanked. We know there are people from Viacom watching this board. If the fandom could put aside the 'I want the movie based on this version, I want a movie based on that version!" And try to present a single list of wants for a tmnt film, there is a small, thin, slim chance something might tickle back to the bean counters in power? Now, would something like that change their mind? Of course not! The online fandom is a tiny sliver of their profit margin, it's money that talks to those people, action figures and merchandise. But if a small number of voices could get them glance in that direction, we might all get what we want; box office profit from the adult TMNT fans from a martial arts flick, and toys and merchandise and fast food kids meals from the cartoon.

So, let's see a mirage vol.1 inspired film trilogy. Give us an expanded origin, return to New York, and city at war. Work in Baxter and his mousers, work in Rat King, and Work in Leatherhead somewhere (heck, have him take Zog's place in RtNY, I don't care) The masks? Avoid the whole question, make them black, or something, or whatever. Borrow from other versions if it enhances the story, like reincarnation from IDW. But make a TMNT movie that feels like TMNT, and make it GOOD.

Look, I know this post probably won't unite this fandom, and it probably won't have any affect at all. For making this post I will probably be laughed at, insulted, or worse. I made this post for myself, to get this off my chest after all the arguments, the flame wars, and crud I've seen go on in this fanbase, while the studio churned out two cruddy movies. I'm not a plant, I don't have an agenda, and I don't' care if there are already a million threads talking about this I could've posted in. I wanted to say my piece on the subject of TMNT movies, and I have done so. So in short... I've changed my mind, and let's all unite for a TMNT based on the original work. That is all.

I'm totally behind this, I'm so glad someone else thought about this as well and brought it back it up. I remember the rumblings people brought up online when the first Bay Turtles film was coming up....having a united fandom front definitely helps out a lot.

That's all fine with me.

Me, I'd be grudgingly OK with the rainbow bandannas (pick your battles, you know, though the last thing TMNT on the big screen needs is a half measure... it needs to go all-in to escape the gravity well of the PD films' brown hole) as long as there's at least a bit with the all-reds.

i.e., big battle scene and the Turtles put on all red bandannas. They're whooshing around a factory/warehouse, trying to get the drop on a room full of like 20, 30 guys. Lights are flickering. The Turtles keep, I dunno, popping out and throwing shuriken at the bad guys (think, the dock scene in Batman Begins, but shuriken and blood and weapons strikes instead of fists and rope). It starts to go on a bit, and the bad guys really freak out, seeing all these red bandannas popping up, disappearing, and popping up again... "How many of them are there??" "I think I got one... sh**, there he is again!" "What happened to Larry? Where'd he go?" "There's ****ing HUNDREDS of them!!! GAHHH!!!" "AHHH!!!" Until they're all picked off.

I think that could be pretty awesome.

I would love the red bandanas to be a mainstay but I think with the way the franchise has gone the multi-colored ones are a must just for them to be recognizable to the masses.

Personally, I'd love to see Leatherhead, rat king, Hun, and a properly done Karai and Baxter as characters in movie one and two, With shredder being a big bad, giving orders and sending the foot out, until he has the fight with the TMNT at the end of the third film. Give hints of his prowess in the first two films- show him fighting in the flashbacks with Yoshi, and sparring with the foot, before breaking him out as a total beast in movie three.

No matter if the franchise is grim and gritty or not, Shredder will ALWAYS be seen as the big bad of the franchise. He should be held off for a big finale, tying up the circle, and bringing vengeance for the death of Yoshi and Shen. You can always follow that with a 'city at war', but he should be given a proper multi-movie buildup.

I agree, Shredder is a definite must.....if only for the first film. I do sorta appreciate what the OoTS sorta did with him in the second film....sorta if only because they were beginning to look like they were going to do a thing with him and Krang.

Of course I can get behind this. There's no guarentee we pull any weight, but there's always a chance to have your voice heard and considered.

My hope right now is for "R" rated films like Logan and Deadpool to have a large "gravitational pull" on the film industry, which even has some effect on properties usually considered for children.
Sure, it may not lead to an "R" rated TMNT flick, but I imagine there will be some type of reverberation that could reach Viacom. A wake up call that audiences can handle a little more grit.

As for taking action, I'm really not sure what we can do other then taking the time to tweet Viacom, Nickelodeon, etc. You hear more and more these days from companies who claim they are "listening to the fans" and "checking the forums". That's one way to go.

I seriously hope the "R" rated movement has some pull on this. I understand wanting to appeal to younger fans on this but come on. I seriously hope the companies keep tabs on forums like this....they better at least.

Overall I think the theme so far on this thread is "we need to keep shredder" at the very least as an element or some sort of shadow on the franchise. A trilogy for sure, and a "City at War" movie or aspect to that trilogy.
For sure the movie aspect of this needs tending to, especially with everything going on with Marvel and DC.....I wouldn't think this should be too far fetched.

Andrew NDB
08-03-2017, 10:34 AM
I seriously hope the "R" rated movement has some pull on this.

There will never be an R-rated TMNT anything. But there doesn't need to be. A PG-13 pushed to the max is more than sufficient.

Which is sad. I was so excited to see that TMNT 2014 would be the first TMNT movie to garner a PG-13... and they didn't even do anything with it. I'm sure OotS did even less with it, since they don't use their weapons.

AquaParade
08-03-2017, 11:18 AM
There will never be an R-rated TMNT anything. But there doesn't need to be. A PG-13 pushed to the max is more than sufficient.

Which is sad. I was so excited to see that TMNT 2014 would be the first TMNT movie to garner a PG-13... and they didn't even do anything with it. I'm sure OotS did even less with it, since they don't use their weapons.

Wow, really? Nothing with it? They gave us a totally cool boner joke, what more do you want??

eskater
08-03-2017, 12:16 PM
There will never be an R-rated TMNT anything. But there doesn't need to be. A PG-13 pushed to the max is more than sufficient.

Which is sad. I was so excited to see that TMNT 2014 would be the first TMNT movie to garner a PG-13... and they didn't even do anything with it. I'm sure OotS did even less with it, since they don't use their weapons.

Oh I don't want to be R-rated either to be honest. TMNT 2014 was disappointing that they didn't do anything meaningful with the canvas they had...I agree wholeheartedly on that. I suppose I just hope that if they ever do more movies and hopefully a trilogy that the "R rated movement" in hollywood has some pull in that they don't constrain the vision of the Turtles to be too campy or try to only appeal to one audience (i.e. kids)

Filespit
08-03-2017, 03:39 PM
Basically, what I want from a new TMNT movie is a darker, grittier and more violent martial arts movie. It doesn't have to be R-rated, that will never happen, but at least give me some awesome, well-coreographed martial arts fighting scenes. They're ninjas after all. And have the Turtles speak Japanese!

When it comes to what version should be adapted, Mirage always springs to mind but I'm a really big fan of what IDW are doing with the story. I think City Fall is an amazing story arc that could be adapted in one movie, and Old Hob is an awesome villain/anti-hero that could really lift a few eyebrows. However, since TMNT is seen as a kids property to non-fans I think there needs to be some references to the cartoony sides of TMNT as well, but not entirely. I wouldn't mind a COWABUNGA moment just for the sake of it.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a quadrology of films (cause there are four Turtles). I'm thinking the first movie could be an origin movie, the second City Fall, the third Return to New York, and the last City at War. I'm focusing on story arcs that takes place on Earth cause I think including all the alien stuff would perhaps be too much?

Something I would greatly appreciate is some deeper character development. Michelangelo goes through depression in the comics, that's a perfect way to explore his character as he's generally the "happy" guy in the team, it would make a great contrast. Also explore their relationships to one another, what relationship does Raph and Don have? Focus on the Turtles and make their personalities more realistic, and not extreme stereotypes.

When it comes to other characters there's a lot I'd like to see. Splinter is a no-brainer, April and Casey should be there but I think we could spare them for one movie. I think Oroku Saki would make a better overarching villain than Shredder, as he could be an awesome business man and clan leader at the same time. Apart from those I wouldn't mind seeing Karai, Baxter, Alopex, Leatherhead, Hun, Slash, Old Hob, Agent Bishop, Mondo Gecko, Nobody or Rat King to name a few.

As long as they make a movie that gives us some awesome martial arts scenes, where they embrace the Turtles's Japanese legacy and explore their personalities on a deeper level, I'm all in.

eskater
08-04-2017, 09:13 AM
Basically, what I want from a new TMNT movie is a darker, grittier and more violent martial arts movie. It doesn't have to be R-rated, that will never happen, but at least give me some awesome, well-coreographed martial arts fighting scenes. They're ninjas after all. And have the Turtles speak Japanese!

When it comes to what version should be adapted, Mirage always springs to mind but I'm a really big fan of what IDW are doing with the story. I think City Fall is an amazing story arc that could be adapted in one movie, and Old Hob is an awesome villain/anti-hero that could really lift a few eyebrows. However, since TMNT is seen as a kids property to non-fans I think there needs to be some references to the cartoony sides of TMNT as well, but not entirely. I wouldn't mind a COWABUNGA moment just for the sake of it.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a quadrology of films (cause there are four Turtles). I'm thinking the first movie could be an origin movie, the second City Fall, the third Return to New York, and the last City at War. I'm focusing on story arcs that takes place on Earth cause I think including all the alien stuff would perhaps be too much?

Something I would greatly appreciate is some deeper character development. Michelangelo goes through depression in the comics, that's a perfect way to explore his character as he's generally the "happy" guy in the team, it would make a great contrast. Also explore their relationships to one another, what relationship does Raph and Don have? Focus on the Turtles and make their personalities more realistic, and not extreme stereotypes.

When it comes to other characters there's a lot I'd like to see. Splinter is a no-brainer, April and Casey should be there but I think we could spare them for one movie. I think Oroku Saki would make a better overarching villain than Shredder, as he could be an awesome business man and clan leader at the same time. Apart from those I wouldn't mind seeing Karai, Baxter, Alopex, Leatherhead, Hun, Slash, Old Hob, Agent Bishop, Mondo Gecko, Nobody or Rat King to name a few.

As long as they make a movie that gives us some awesome martial arts scenes, where they embrace the Turtles's Japanese legacy and explore their personalities on a deeper level, I'm all in.

Greater character development should be the number 1 thing in any of their movies. The 2007 movie be as it may be I think had some character development that redeemed it, the PD movies had very little of it and any time they did it, it just felt very forced.
I thought they did martial arts in the last two through motion cap though am I wrong?