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Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-27-2017, 10:04 AM
Because of all talking about this in threads, I start a new thread to discuss the topic about the possibilities of Marvel Comics buying the TMNT, and fan opinons about it.

neatoman
05-27-2017, 11:02 AM
Trust me, you don't want that to happen, IDW or another publisher who isn't one of the big two buying TMNT is a far better scenario for the brand. Here's what would happen if Marvel bought TMNT the way they are now:

Marvel starts publishing a TMNT series, unless it sells over 20 000 a month it gets cancelled, they might give another try but will most likely just split up the characters for various team books, the writers eventually get bored of using them, for the next couple of decades we'll just get reprints, eventually they might try it again. On the flipside, if it is really successful under Marvel, then they'll start to involve them in hard to follow crossover events, retcon stuff to fit in with the movie branding and give them a soulless garbage cartoon that just exist to promote the movies (ugh).

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QQGnESrEv1I/UZuWzwvQK-I/AAAAAAAAAKQ/xEHyMEL-SS8/s1600/1369099954408.gif
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7B2N0jHO1D4/UZuWgewzBQI/AAAAAAAAAKI/qfGG5w0Q4bc/s1600/1369101955214.gif

In short, the TMNT will either get neglected or overexposed to the point of being almost pointless to follow.

Tetsu Deinonychus
05-27-2017, 11:19 AM
I think you nailed it. They either become obscure side-characters or shoved down our throats like Wolverine and Iron Man.

Andrew NDB
05-27-2017, 11:35 AM
"Marvel" doesn't buy anything anymore. It'd be a Disney acquisition.

ProphetofGanja
05-27-2017, 11:36 AM
And that's the end of that :lol:

IndigoErth
05-27-2017, 12:26 PM
I'd rather they just have a license to visit some of these other brands, like they've already done a little of, rather than live there and get overshadowed.



For the fun of it, I kinda wish there would be crossover movies with them. Put them in a Guardians of the Galaxy 3; it's outer space and alien stuff, the Turtles are good at that! :twink: (Not to mention Guardians and TMNT 2014 instead of one eating the other alive kinda teamed up to guard the top two box office spots from anyone else getting past them - they make a good team! :tlol:)

CyberCubed
05-27-2017, 12:41 PM
TMNT comics tend not to sell that well. IDW TMNT comics only average around 16,000-18,000 copies for most issues.

Contrary to what people here think, TMNT has always been seen more as a cartoon franchise than comic franchise. Far more people watch the Nick cartoon than read the IDW comics for example.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-27-2017, 01:23 PM
TMNT comics tend not to sell that well. IDW TMNT comics only average around 16,000-18,000 copies for most issues.

Contrary to what people here think, TMNT has always been seen more as a cartoon franchise than comic franchise.

Not really contrary. Even if the Mirage Comics came first, a lot of people who came here around 15 years ago thought the same. I always knew TMNT was a comic book first, but of course I misstook it for Archie Comics back then until I rediscovered TMNT in late-2003 (sometime before Christmas) and early-2004.

snake
05-27-2017, 01:41 PM
A resounding "NO!"

Ninjinister
05-27-2017, 02:32 PM
DC/WB would probably be a more likely option since they already have a working relationship with IDW and have done two crossovers with the Turtles - not to mention WB owning New Line and having distributed the 2007 film, and having almost had a cartoon of their own before 4Kids' entry.

But it's probably staying put for the time being.

MsMarvelDuckie
05-27-2017, 03:44 PM
They would have to wrest it from Viacom/Nickelodeon's grip first.....

CyberCubed
05-27-2017, 04:06 PM
People who want Disney/Marvel or WB to buy TMNT would probably wind up regretting it in a few years.

neatoman
05-27-2017, 04:10 PM
They would have to wrest it from Viacom/Nickelodeon's grip first.....

Alright, let's propose a somewhat more realistic scenario. What if Viacom bought IDW or another publisher? Alternatively, what if IDW was bought by one of Viacom's rivals?

IndigoErth
05-27-2017, 04:44 PM
Alternatively, what if IDW was bought by one of Viacom's rivals?
Well that's awkward. What power does IDW (or rather its new owner in that scenario) have vs Viacom? Would Viacom possibly be able to remove it from IDW/whoever and publish elsewhere? :ohwell:

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-27-2017, 05:04 PM
Trust me, you don't want that to happen, IDW or another publisher who isn't one of the big two buying TMNT is a far better scenario for the brand. Here's what would happen if Marvel bought TMNT the way they are now:

I just took it up for discussion because it seemed to flood other threads. I have no personal opinion about it yet. But I definately don't want the TMNT to be directly owned and controlled by the Walt Disney Studio.

LeotheLateBloomer
05-28-2017, 02:28 PM
I recall making a thread similar to this but now that I think of it, it'd be a terrible purchase. They could possibly make a good TMNT movie but their tone that they use for their films is definitely not the direction I want for a TMNT film. I have not been a fan of some of their recent comics. I have no interest in their recent cartoons after the Disney buyouts. As neatoman says, I do not want TMNT to get the same type of exposure the Marvel superheroes get. I'd rather they get bought by WB/DC and I'm still iffy on that one as well.

Trust me, you don't want that to happen, IDW or another publisher who isn't one of the big two buying TMNT is a far better scenario for the brand. Here's what would happen if Marvel bought TMNT the way they are now:

Marvel starts publishing a TMNT series, unless it sells over 20 000 a month it gets cancelled, they might give another try but will most likely just split up the characters for various team books, the writers eventually get bored of using them, for the next couple of decades we'll just get reprints, eventually they might try it again. On the flipside, if it is really successful under Marvel, then they'll start to involve them in hard to follow crossover events, retcon stuff to fit in with the movie branding and give them a soulless garbage cartoon that just exist to promote the movies (ugh).

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QQGnESrEv1I/UZuWzwvQK-I/AAAAAAAAAKQ/xEHyMEL-SS8/s1600/1369099954408.gif
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7B2N0jHO1D4/UZuWgewzBQI/AAAAAAAAAKI/qfGG5w0Q4bc/s1600/1369101955214.gif

In short, the TMNT will either get neglected or overexposed to the point of being almost pointless to follow.

And WB/DC?

TMNT comics tend not to sell that well. IDW TMNT comics only average around 16,000-18,000 copies for most issues.

Contrary to what people here think, TMNT has always been seen more as a cartoon franchise than comic franchise. Far more people watch the Nick cartoon than read the IDW comics for example.

To be fair, couldn't you also say that for most of DC and Marvel's properties?

People who want Disney/Marvel or WB to buy TMNT would probably wind up regretting it in a few years.

Definitely agree.

CyberCubed
05-28-2017, 02:47 PM
Most people still recognize superheroes as comic book franchises first and then movies/cartoons second. For example everyone knows Batman and Spiderman started in comic books, nobody thinks cartoons/movies came first.

With TMNT it's a bit different. While your casual fan probably is aware there were comics before the cartoons, they're just not going to think of it.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-28-2017, 03:05 PM
With TMNT it's a bit different. While your casual fan probably is aware there were comics before the cartoons, they're just not going to think of it.

But if they know any TMNT comics, it's easy to assume that a comic book usually predates a cartoon.

Coola Yagami
05-28-2017, 03:08 PM
The only problem is I kinda don't want to see them integrated into the Marvel or DC Universes. Don't forget both companies every other month have some sort of the stupid event that will effect the TMNT regardless of what would be going on in their own book. Like who's side will the Turtles takes in the next Civil War? Which Turtle will join the X-Men or the Guardians of the Galaxy? The next time Darkseid comes around, which Turtle will be standing on the front lines alongside the Justice League? Nonsense.

And then we're gonna get Crises and whatnot that will reset the Turtles every other year just so they coincide with the rest of the universe.

neatoman
05-28-2017, 03:20 PM
And WB/DC?

In terms of comics it would be similar, except Batman and Superman would overshadow the Turtles. Oh, and arbitrarily selected stories from both Mirage and IDW would both be part of the canon regardless of how little sense that makes, then after a few years this arbitrary selection would be changed again.

In terms of cartoons they would generally be good, but chances are that they would either be relegated to guest appearences in Batman/Superman/JLA shows rather have their own.

In terms of movies... Well... WB have traditionally not been very interested in making movies of DC's comics until recently. when they have it's been rather selective. The vast majority either feature Batman and Superman or are based on their direct spin-offs. If DC got a hold of TMNT now it's likely it wouldn't be considered core DC enough.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-28-2017, 03:44 PM
The only problem is I kinda don't want to see them integrated into the Marvel or DC Universes. Don't forget both companies every other month have some sort of the stupid event that will effect the TMNT regardless of what would be going on in their own book. Like who's side will the Turtles takes in the next Civil War? Which Turtle will join the X-Men or the Guardians of the Galaxy? The next time Darkseid comes around, which Turtle will be standing on the front lines alongside the Justice League? Nonsense.

And then we're gonna get Crises and whatnot that will reset the Turtles every other year just so they coincide with the rest of the universe.

The turtles should probably live on Earth in an alternate reality to avoid such situations?

billbot85
05-28-2017, 05:16 PM
They would have to wrest it from Viacom/Nickelodeon's grip first.....

Viacom to Marvel: "You can have the TMNT franchise when you pry it from my cold dead fingers..."

Splinter the boss
05-28-2017, 08:35 PM
The only problem is I kinda don't want to see them integrated into the Marvel or DC Universes. Don't forget both companies every other month have some sort of the stupid event that will effect the TMNT regardless of what would be going on in their own book. Like who's side will the Turtles takes in the next Civil War? Which Turtle will join the X-Men or the Guardians of the Galaxy? The next time Darkseid comes around, which Turtle will be standing on the front lines alongside the Justice League? Nonsense.

And then we're gonna get Crises and whatnot that will reset the Turtles every other year just so they coincide with the rest of the universe.
Well said.

Andrew NDB
05-28-2017, 08:38 PM
Even if Viacom gets to a point where they don't want to do any more cartoons or movies or anything with TMNT, it'd probably be more worth it to them to just sit on the rights to not let anyone else do anything with it and potentially create competition.

TigerClaw
05-28-2017, 08:39 PM
The turtles should probably live on Earth in an alternate reality to avoid such situations?
There's probably an alternate reality right now, in which Disney owns the rights to TMNT.

Coola Yagami
05-28-2017, 09:18 PM
The turtles should probably live on Earth in an alternate reality to avoid such situations?

They'll still find some way to crossover. We have 2 Spider-Mans now since Miles lives in the main universe too. We have alternate reality Gwens running aound. Old Man Logan who used to be from an alternate reality is running around in the main one too. They'd find some way to have the TMNT and their side characters co-exist in the main universe as well the next time they have another Secret Wars or whatever.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-29-2017, 06:58 AM
They'll still find some way to crossover. We have 2 Spider-Mans now since Miles lives in the main universe too. We have alternate reality Gwens running aound. Old Man Logan who used to be from an alternate reality is running around in the main one too. They'd find some way to have the TMNT and their side characters co-exist in the main universe as well the next time they have another Secret Wars or whatever.

Are you sure they'll crossover just before they'll find a way to do?

DestronMirage22
05-29-2017, 09:47 AM
It would be a horrible idea.
The TMNT aren't superheroes. And having them exist with all those Marvel characters would really undermine them. What stories could they tell that that the TMNT could be a part of?
It would never work.

Coola Yagami
05-29-2017, 10:32 AM
It would be a horrible idea.
The TMNT aren't superheroes. And having them exist with all those Marvel characters would really undermine them. What stories could they tell that that the TMNT could be a part of?
It would never work.

Exactly. They're basically just human ninjas with shells. If anything they'd get in the way and would need to be pushed out of the way of all the energy blasts and explosions.

If anything, they could work for SHIELD and help take down regular HYDRA agents or at least ones with so-so super powers.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-29-2017, 11:26 AM
Exactly. They're basically just human ninjas with shells. If anything they'd get in the way and would need to be pushed out of the way of all the energy blasts and explosions.

If anything, they could work for SHIELD and help take down regular HYDRA agents or at least ones with so-so super powers.

But if they live on an alternate Earth, they'll only come to an Earth of superheroes during crossover, and the superheroes don't need to visit the turtles' Earth.

Tetsu Deinonychus
05-31-2017, 12:49 PM
They already exist in a world with superheroes, and the Turtles battle alien invasions etc. just fine. Marvel/Dc still wouldn't give them the attention they deserve compared to all their more iconic heroes and events, etc. would still screw them up.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
05-31-2017, 01:04 PM
They already exist in a world with superheroes, and the Turtles battle alien invasions etc. just fine. Marvel/Dc still wouldn't give them the attention they deserve compared to all their more iconic heroes and events, etc. would still screw them up.

It's still a numer of very few superheroes compared to traditional superhero comics.

neatoman
05-31-2017, 01:24 PM
It's still a numer of very few superheroes compared to traditional superhero comics.

I guess? That sort of thing built up over time though, part of the reason DC's character roster is so huge is because they kept buying up weakened rivals (Charlton, Fawcett, Wildstorm etc).

Coola Yagami
06-01-2017, 12:07 AM
They already exist in a world with superheroes, and the Turtles battle alien invasions etc. just fine. Marvel/Dc still wouldn't give them the attention they deserve compared to all their more iconic heroes and events, etc. would still screw them up.

True but in the grand scheme of things the aliens in TMNT are weak enough to be taken down by hand to hand combat. Unlike the Bay films, there's nothing to suggest the Turtles punch and kick any harder than a regular human with the same amount of martial arts training would. In the Mirage world, Bruce Lee with a laser gun can save the world from a Triceraton invasion.

Andrew NDB
06-01-2017, 12:16 AM
In the Mirage world, Bruce Lee with a laser gun can save the world from a Triceraton invasion.

He'd probably do that in our own. :)

neatoman
06-01-2017, 02:33 AM
He'd probably do that in our own. :)

Better not team up with Chuck Norris or they'll take over the aliens' homeworld.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
06-01-2017, 06:32 AM
True but in the grand scheme of things the aliens in TMNT are weak enough to be taken down by hand to hand combat. Unlike the Bay films, there's nothing to suggest the Turtles punch and kick any harder than a regular human with the same amount of martial arts training would. In the Mirage world, Bruce Lee with a laser gun can save the world from a Triceraton invasion.

When you think of it, hasn't TMNT actually become one of the greatest symbols for the Western fear of computers and technology? Time after time, we want to see the turtles use ancient Japanese swords and sticks to not only fight equal-skilled ninjas or take down gangsters with pistols and riffles but also save Earth from extraterrestrials with rayguns and technology superior to Earth. Splinter's words in "Shredder's Mom" with the abacus perhaps symbolizes it best. (Funny is how Japan in general has been more positive to modern technology and robots)

myconius
06-01-2017, 09:55 AM
Trust me, you don't want that to happen, IDW or another publisher who isn't one of the big two buying TMNT is a far better scenario for the brand. Here's what would happen if Marvel bought TMNT the way they are now:

Marvel starts publishing a TMNT series, unless it sells over 20 000 a month it gets cancelled, they might give another try but will most likely just split up the characters for various team books, the writers eventually get bored of using them, for the next couple of decades we'll just get reprints, eventually they might try it again. On the flipside, if it is really successful under Marvel, then they'll start to involve them in hard to follow crossover events, retcon stuff to fit in with the movie branding and give them a soulless garbage cartoon that just exist to promote the movies (ugh).

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QQGnESrEv1I/UZuWzwvQK-I/AAAAAAAAAKQ/xEHyMEL-SS8/s1600/1369099954408.gif
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7B2N0jHO1D4/UZuWgewzBQI/AAAAAAAAAKI/qfGG5w0Q4bc/s1600/1369101955214.gif

In short, the TMNT will either get neglected or overexposed to the point of being almost pointless to follow.

neatoman summed it up perfectly.

Marvel might also pull some idiotic plot twist that the Turtles were secretly created by Hydra, or that they really were aliens that fell out of Galactus's butt after a cosmic fart.

DC Comics would probably treat the TMNT the same way as well.

both companies seem to love separating teams, and spreading them across multiple titles just to sell more issues.
or force Tmnt into a cross-over event that spans across multiple titles.

doing a cross-over within a one-shot or mini-series is fine.

but if you're buying an ongoing series that you need to buy random issues of some other series just to continue the story, then that's pretty much extorting your fans.

this is the reason i've stopped buying Marvel & DC ongoing comic titles.

Coola Yagami
06-03-2017, 08:31 PM
Exactly, how many times does Batman, Harley and Deadpool appear in a single month if you count every single comic they cameo in?

I feel half of DC comics appearing per month is Batman related, especially if you count Birds of Prey, Teen Titans and anything Harley/Suicide Squad.

Prowler
06-04-2017, 02:29 AM
I wouldn't want the TMNT to fall into the hands of Disney or Time Warner. I know that, in theory, the TMNT belonging to a larger company would make it easier to market them and possibly there be more movies, comics, cartoons, action figures, etc. of them in the future, but the TMNT are not bigger than Batman, Spider-man, Star Wars, Mickey, Bugs Bunny and the likes; so I doubt they'd be given much priority.

Also, not being a fan of DC and Marvel I really have no interest in seeing the Turtles fighting against or alongside characters like Hulk, Spider-Man and the likes.

neatoman
06-04-2017, 03:03 AM
Exactly, how many times does Batman, Harley and Deadpool appear in a single month if you count every single comic they cameo in?

I feel half of DC comics appearing per month is Batman related, especially if you count Birds of Prey, Teen Titans and anything Harley/Suicide Squad.

Just in April for Batman, let's see here:

Batman
All Star Batman
Batman The Shadow
Batman Beyond (Yes, I know it's Terry and not Bruce but it's still Batman)
Batman 66 Meets Wonder Woman 77
Detective Comics
Justice League
Justice League of America

I know some of these are non-canon, I don't know about guest appearances, I don't know if Batman is part of any other team and I don't know for sure if Batman appears in both JL books (I don't follow any of these). It still gives us roughly two issues each week starring Batman to some capacity.

I wouldn't want the TMNT to fall into the hands of Disney or Time Warner. I know that, in theory, the TMNT belonging to a larger company would make it easier to market them and possibly there be more movies, comics, cartoons, action figures, etc. of them in the future, but the TMNT are not bigger than Batman, Spider-man, Star Wars, Mickey, Bugs Bunny and the likes; so I doubt they'd be given much priority.

Also, not being a fan of DC and Marvel I really have no interest in seeing the Turtles fighting against or alongside characters like Hulk, Spider-Man and the likes.

That's a pretty realistic concern, yes. There's a high probability all you'd get under them are comic reprints (albeit high quality omnibus reprints).

d_osborn
06-04-2017, 08:31 AM
Didn't Marvel approach E&L early on about buying the property? I know E&L pitched a Daredevil crossover, but I seem to remember reading something about Marvel approaching them.

http://i.imgur.com/xJnWUsb.jpg?1

snake
06-04-2017, 11:28 AM
Didn't Marvel approach E&L early on about buying the property? I know E&L pitched a Daredevil crossover, but I seem to remember reading something about Marvel approaching them.

http://i.imgur.com/xJnWUsb.jpg?1

I've heard that too, but never found a source. Can anyone step in?

neatoman
06-04-2017, 12:05 PM
Well, this is what I get out of searching the Ask PL blog posts.

I know Kevin and I talked at various times about how fun it would be to do stories featuring some of our favorite Marvel and/or DC characters with the Turtles, but I don't think it ever went beyond that. But I do have a vague memory about Steve Murphy looking into doing a Spider-Man crossover.

As for why Marvel might be interested in such a thing?

Let's see... fun, publicity, money. How's that?

Of course, I have no idea if they ever were interested. It's quite possible they were not.

I'm not going to name names, but at least two large companies approached Mirage with offers to buy the TMNT property. One was actually a reasonable deal, considering WHEN it happened... but Kevin (who was still half owner at that time) and I just weren't ready to sell. The second offer was for roughly one-twentieth what Viacom paid, so that was just ridiculous, and was rejected.

No, as far as I know, Disney never approached us. If they had, and the price was right, I would have been happy to sell to them. -- PL.

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot.se/2012/02/ask-pl-6.html

John Pannozzi
06-05-2017, 12:38 AM
From Kevin's 1998 interview with the Comics Journal:

So when I finished work that summer, Pete said, “Come on. Move in. We’ll form a little studio, and try and sell our work together.” At that time, we weren’t thinking self-publishing; we were going to sell things to Marvel or DC. Pacific Comics was just starting up, Capital Comics the same, and there were a few other people publishing, so we thought we had lots of options.



You see, the Turtles could have taken a very, very wrong turn if we had been less savvy. There was a time early on, Peter David, and Archie Goodwin took a meeting with Pete and I to consider bringing the Turtles in-house at Marvel. Which, you know, there’s still that boyhood fantasy thing inside us that was like, “Marvel! WOW!” And even though we knew ****ing better we still went down to the meeting. They said, “Well, you know, we’ll put it in our Epic line, really glossy covers, full color, very slick, we’ll give you an editor, and of course we’d want 50 percent of the profits, and the merchandising.” We were just like, “**** that.” But, if that offer had happened really early on, it’s entirely possible that the Turtles would have been another big profit center for Marvel to make millions and millions of dollars on, or perhaps they would have ****ed that up, too, who knows.

http://www.tcj.com/the-kevin-eastman-interview-part-i/

http://www.tcj.com/the-kevin-eastman-interview-part-i/2/

Sad to think Marvel and DC would have given Rick Veitch a better deal for his TMNT work than Viacom/Nick offered.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
06-06-2017, 06:48 AM
Isn't Justice League and Justice League of America the same?

neatoman
06-06-2017, 10:07 AM
Isn't Justice League and Justice League of America the same?

They were labeled as different books, so I guess not in this case?

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
06-06-2017, 11:15 AM
Didn't Marvel approach E&L early on about buying the property? I know E&L pitched a Daredevil crossover, but I seem to remember reading something about Marvel approaching them.

http://i.imgur.com/xJnWUsb.jpg?1

Great artwork at least.

myconius
06-06-2017, 03:17 PM
Exactly, how many times does Batman, Harley and Deadpool appear in a single month if you count every single comic they cameo in?

I feel half of DC comics appearing per month is Batman related, especially if you count Birds of Prey, Teen Titans and anything Harley/Suicide Squad.

Just in April for Batman, let's see here:

Batman
All Star Batman
Batman The Shadow
Batman Beyond (Yes, I know it's Terry and not Bruce but it's still Batman)
Batman 66 Meets Wonder Woman 77
Detective Comics
Justice League
Justice League of America

I know some of these are non-canon, I don't know about guest appearances, I don't know if Batman is part of any other team and I don't know for sure if Batman appears in both JL books (I don't follow any of these). It still gives us roughly two issues each week starring Batman to some capacity.


shake that money tree
and do the cash grab dance

https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-27-2015/Wuk_ej.gif

ch-CHA ch-CHAAA CH'YAAAAAA CH'YYYAAAAAAAAAAA!!

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Adam-West-Dancing-as-Batman.gif

Coola Yagami
06-06-2017, 09:19 PM
Isn't Justice League and Justice League of America the same?

No. Two different teams. I dont know the members but i know the regular JL has Bats, Supes and Wondie.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
06-07-2017, 12:48 PM
No. Two different teams. I dont know the members but i know the regular JL has Bats, Supes and Wondie.

I used to watch a Justice League cartoon called "Superfriends". It was Superman, Batman and Robin, Wonderwoman, Aquaman, Supertwins Zan, Jayna with their monkey Gleek and some more.

pferreira
06-08-2017, 04:23 PM
No. Two different teams. I dont know the members but i know the regular JL has Bats, Supes and Wondie.I lose track but do they do JSA comics as well. I remember at one point JSA and JLA comics at once?