View Full Version : Proof of Russian collusion, Trump is falling apart
Prowler
05-10-2018, 08:39 PM
I do think the media and the American left have done a horrible job dealing with Trump's presidency using the same failed tactics that got him elected and will get him elected again. The negative stuff just slides off of him and as long as people think he's doing a good job it's all it matters. You can attribute some things to him and that's enough to get him re-elected but at the same time it's at the expense of their very own institutions and the swamp is not being drained at all, he's causing long term damage to the country that will take years to fix. I put all the blame on the current liberal culture for allowing this to happen.
That doesn't change the fact that he's doing far more damage to what the world thinks of America than Bush did. What does it matter as long as the US is doing well? If you took any macroeconomics class in college you would know that we live in a globalized world and the American economy depends on other nations using the dollar, so it's best for the US not to push their luck.
Yeah, both the mainstream left wing and right wing have been dealing poorly with phenomenons like Trump and other right-wing populists. It's not by constantly mocking them and playing the "racist and xenophobic!" card 24/7 that they're gonna convince people not to vote for the more extremem options.
The main issue is that both mainstream left and right wing politicians have been basically screwing over the middle class in the West in the past 15 years or so and now ofc the people are reacting.
Oh yeah your right, I forgot all about him. He is a very underrated president. It is rather impressive that he invented the printing press as well. :D
That's only because he has never played Sid Meier's Civilization against me!
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
05-10-2018, 08:43 PM
That doesn't change the fact that he's doing far more damage to what the world thinks of America than Bush did. What does it matter as long as the US is doing well? If you took any macroeconomics class in college you would know that we live in a globalized world and the American economy depends on other nations using the dollar, so it's best for the US not to push their luck.
Try telling the only modern country that uses Imperial units of measurement that we should care about globalization. :tlol:
Americans, by and large, think the rest of the world can suck it.
Everyone else's opinion on America? Pretty much 100% spot-on... not that most of us care.
Prowler
05-10-2018, 08:47 PM
Try telling the only modern country that uses Imperial units of measurement that we should care about globalization. :tlol:
Americans, by and large, think the rest of the world can suck it.
Everyone else's opinion on America? Pretty much 100% spot-on... not that most of us care.
Imperial units are hardly the worst thing about modern day "American exceptionalism" tbh. Feel free to play your football with your hands and taking your car everywhere as long as you don't mess up other parts of the globe :tlol:
plastroncafe
05-10-2018, 09:28 PM
I love the concept that it's the Democratic party's fault that the Republican party is doing exactly what its platform says it has wanted to do for the last 40 years.
I'm not saying that the Democratic party is blameless, I think they allowed to the Republicans in the name of cooperation and Reaching Across the aisle far too many times.
Trump is in office because the Republican Party voted for him to be there.
He's the leader of that political party.
Andrew NDB
05-10-2018, 09:31 PM
I far from believe or support everything Trump is doing... but there is a lot of good coming out things. Not all of it good (a good % I'd say is rather bad, actually, though weighing the pros and cons of the Bad that a Clinton or even a Bernie presidency would have wrought, I think they're the lesser of two evils), but quite a bit. The economy is getting stronger and more robust, the DOW has hit record highs, we're seeing unemployment plummet all over the place and now the previously unthinkable is happening with North Korea.
People (and the media, largely) seem to be getting hung up on, "But where is his heart at? Can we talk about that?!" Where's it at? I don't know where his heart is, I have no idea... but he appears to be getting results. I think we'd do to spend a bit more time worrying about the bottom line and less about where people's hearts are.
Leo656
05-10-2018, 09:38 PM
I think we'd do to spend a bit more time worrying about the bottom line and less about where people's hearts are.
You're alright, you.
plastroncafe
05-10-2018, 09:45 PM
I wouldn't go that far
I love the concept that it's the Democratic party's fault that the Republican party is doing exactly what its platform says it has wanted to do for the last 40 years.
I'm not saying that the Democratic party is blameless, I think they allowed to the Republicans in the name of cooperation and Reaching Across the aisle far too many times.
Trump is in office because the Republican Party voted for him to be there.
He's the leader of that political party.
No, it's this "with us or against us" that is eating their own that lead to what should've been an easy victory. You've even told me more than once that this is your attitude here so you can't say it isn't the case.
I far from believe or support everything Trump is doing... but there is a lot of good coming out things. Not all of it good (a good % I'd say is rather bad, actually, though weighing the pros and cons of the Bad that a Clinton or even a Bernie presidency would have wrought, I think they're the lesser of two evils), but quite a bit. The economy is getting stronger and more robust, the DOW has hit record highs, we're seeing unemployment plummet all over the place and now the previously unthinkable is happening with North Korea.
People (and the media, largely) seem to be getting hung up on, "But where is his heart at? Can we talk about that?!" Where's it at? I don't know where his heart is, I have no idea... but he appears to be getting results. I think we'd do to spend a bit more time worrying about the bottom line and less about where people's hearts are.
I agree that the media is hung up on discrediting anything he does like the other political ideologies did for Obama and they're doing a disservice to the people. Bernie wouldn't have been able to implement any of his promises, Clinton would've been "more of the same" but that's not necessarily a bad thing, I didn't like her much but she knows exactly what can and can't be done and would've been a good leader.
The economy is getting stronger but it was Obama's policies that helped the US get out of the recession. I mean the DOW would've hit record highs with Hillary as well based on trends. There's more to what's happening with North Korea and I doubt some "mean tweets" made them change their mind with just a few more economic sanctions. It's up in the air, he may very well have helped but I'll be skeptical until in a few decades we get the full story. I think more than any sanctions it was the fact that once they had the technology to really attack the US with nuclear weapons they finally had a hand to start netotiating and it was the whole reason they were doing it in the first place so they wouldn't get a bad deal.
Unemployment going down is definitely thanks to him but at what cost? His policies are incredibly short sighted and will have repercussions in the long term even if it's after 4 years. You don't have to believe me, I recommend you some articles by Paul Krugman who's one of the most respected economists in the world or if you don't want to "believe" him then just read some books on macroeconomics.
The economy is getting stronger and more robust, the DOW has hit record highs, we're seeing unemployment plummet all over the place and now the previously unthinkable is happening with North Korea.
plastroncafe
05-13-2018, 05:30 AM
No, it's this "with us or against us" that is eating their own that lead to what should've been an easy victory. You've even told me more than once that this is your attitude here so you can't say it isn't the case.
.
That appears to be the playbook for at least one of major parties right now. I can't say as I would attribute it to the Democratic party, given how much they have acquiesced to the demands of the top.
If we're talking about people left-of-center, then yeah I would say that that political ideology suffers from a strain of ideological Purity that is neither productive, nor beneficial to the cause.
The strain the right-of-center folk have is literally their ideology.
Either you believe what we believe, or you're not a Real American/Coastal Elite/Snowflake/etc.
I think it does bear repeating I am not a member of the Democratic Party, for a multitude of reasons. I'm not a member of the Republican party for the simple reason that their platform has planks that would render me a second class citizen.
Prowler
05-13-2018, 09:22 AM
That appears to be the playbook for at least one of major parties right now. I can't say as I would attribute it to the Democratic party, given how much they have acquiesced to the demands of the top.
If we're talking about people left-of-center, then yeah I would say that that political ideology suffers from a strain of ideological Purity that is neither productive, nor beneficial to the cause.
The strain the right-of-center folk have is literally their ideology.
Either you believe what we believe, or you're not a Real American/Coastal Elite/Snowflake/etc.
I think it does bear repeating I am not a member of the Democratic Party, for a multitude of reasons. I'm not a member of the Republican party for the simple reason that their platform has planks that would render me a second class citizen.
What makes an American a "Real American"? I often see people from places like USA/Canada/Brazil/Australia/etc taking pride in their nations' diversity and inclusiveness compared to European nations and yet they can be just as elitist and distrustful of outside cultural elements as many Europeans and Asians are.
plastroncafe
05-13-2018, 09:29 AM
What makes an American a "Real American"? I often see people from places like USA/Canada/Brazil/Australia/etc taking pride in their nations' diversity and inclusiveness compared to European nations and yet they can be just as elitist and distrustful of outside cultural elements as many Europeans and Asians are.
Honestly? I don't think anyone really knows.
It's probably easier to just let it stand in the place of the No True Scotsman, and call it a day.
Prowler
05-13-2018, 09:34 AM
Honestly? I don't think anyone really knows.
It's probably easier to just let it stand in the place of the No True Scotsman, and call it a day.
So if someone calls you "unamerican" or something like that it's basically just an ad hominem attack?
plastroncafe
05-13-2018, 09:41 AM
So if someone calls you "unamerican" or something like that it's basically just an ad hominem attack?
I would say 9/10 times yes, but only because the average person isn't likely to commit treason.
Leo656
05-13-2018, 09:57 AM
What makes an American a "Real American"?
Psssh. Easy.
RKM1AAzeRCg
Surprised you even had to ask.
Prowler
05-13-2018, 10:21 AM
Psssh. Easy.
RKM1AAzeRCg
Surprised you even had to ask.
I wouldn't mind being Hulk Hogan. Well, I mean, I wouldn't want his life per se, but being a physical clone of him and sounding like him? Absolutely.
Leo656
05-13-2018, 10:24 AM
There were half a million people in the SilverDome and Andre was 9 feet tall, Brotherrrrrr!
Prowler
05-13-2018, 10:28 AM
There were half a million people in the SilverDome and Andre was 9 feet tall, Brotherrrrrr!
When it comes crashing down and it hurts insideeeeee
What makes an American a "Real American"?
Leo is totally correct on this one.
Go read a little about Hulk Hogan, who he is, and what he's done and you'll be in complete agreement as well. Google it, this link here is only a short taste (https://www.thesportster.com/wrestling/15-reasons-why-hulk-hogan-is-the-worst/). Just change Wrestling Industry to "rest of the world" and you get an accurate portrayal of what it takes to be Real. They can't ask for better representation.
Prowler
05-13-2018, 10:55 AM
Leo is totally correct on this one.
Go read a little about Hulk Hogan, who he is, and what he's done and you'll be in complete agreement as well. Google it, this link here is only a short taste (https://www.thesportster.com/wrestling/15-reasons-why-hulk-hogan-is-the-worst/). Just change Wrestling Industry to "rest of the world" and you get an accurate portrayal of what it takes to be Real. They can't ask for better representation.
I've heard about a lot of those things. I was a huge wrestling fan when I was younger, and the IWC tends to absolutely despise Hulk Hogan. So trust me, Iv'e read about of anti-Hogan stuff before.
I don't get how Hogan supposedly being a dick(according to that article that is) answers my question. Is it analogous to USA's foreign policy or something?
Leo656
05-13-2018, 05:43 PM
They misspelled "Best" in the title. That's hilarious.
Does the team Trump have not understand macroeconomics? What exactly is their plan with their tariffs? This is economics 101 and text book examples that I studied in class. It's going to affect Canada, Mexico and Europe a lot, of course all these countries are retaliating with similar tariffs that are targeted at swing states and Trump voters.
In trade wars only certain businesses win in the short run, in the long run things go back to normal and overall the only ones who lose are consumers aka all of us. His economic policies do not work, why is there so much outrage with FAKE news and exaggerating all these things he does instead of this?
Why do people care more about whether Roseanne was treated unfairly than Samantha Bee? Why are people so outraged at all these things whether you're the left or the right calling each other hypocrites? These economic policies will be far more damaging than anything else.
I really don't understand how these important news are not given enough coverage and the 'passionate' people ignore.
plastroncafe
06-01-2018, 01:49 PM
That's simple, the average American doesn't understand how the Market works, where as they all have an opinion about which talking head is the Correct One, and which one should be Ashamed of Themselves.
So long as they get theirs, they don't really care about anyone else.
That said, I don't know nearly enough about economics to refute the folks who say what's gone on right now is outright market manipulation, and that this administration is going out of his way to crank out money for its friends.
Andrew NDB
06-01-2018, 01:50 PM
That's simple, the average American doesn't understand how the Market works, where as they all have an opinion about which talking head is the Correct One, and which one should be Ashamed of Themselves.
That part sounds about right. Unfortunately.
You don't need extensive economics knowledge, its fairly simple if not I can help you, with any questions. This benefits no one, it's going to be hell for the countries affected and of course they all announced their retaliation within hours and they are p-ssed.
I really don't understand, it'll only help steel/aluminum/other manufacturers and bring jobs there in the short term. Each country is already aiming at taxes in all those swing states and pro-trump voters to screw them economically and they vote democrat. So in the end the US will also suffer, especially those affected. We're all going to be paying more for goods. Sadly the US won't be affected as much as say other countries but that's only because its already a stronger economy not because this is a "good" move. Everyone gets screwed and in the long term the markets will reach equilibrium once more.
This might actually get voters involved in November to vote democrat so it's not even a good strategy, this helps them more than any of the FAKE News outrage over everything Trump does that didn't help him lose the election 2 years ago. So where is the strategy here? These are things they should already know.
At the end of the day we're all going to be paying more for ceratain things very soon if you live in Canada, Mexico, US or Europe. I hope something works out soon enough before all these things happen, normally this seems to be the trend, something similar happened 3 years ago and it only lasted a week before things went back to normal since they knew no one would win but that was on a much smaller scale.
Sumac
06-01-2018, 02:05 PM
That part sounds about right. Unfortunately.
It's not much better anywhere else.
TurtleWA
06-01-2018, 02:12 PM
Why do people care more about whether Roseanne was treated unfairly than Samantha Bee? Why are people so outraged at all these things whether you're the left or the right calling each other hypocrites? These economic policies will be far more damaging than anything else.
Social issues are far more sexy than economic ones.
That's simple, the average American doesn't understand how the Market works,
How do you define “average American?”
Well, hopefully after all the backlash shown today the US might back off.
Social issues are far more sexy than economic ones.
I know this, but the news media has a job to do, at what point did all the news networks become Fox News of the left?
It's not much better anywhere else.
French, Canadian and Mexican outlets are definitely reporting a lot on this. I wasn't trying to make a statement of "people don't follow the important news" with my question.
I know the other news are far more easy to have an opinion and be passionate about it but I don't know, I expected more from this.
plastroncafe
06-01-2018, 02:21 PM
What's funny/sad about that is most, if not all, social issues ARE economic ones.
But it's a good question, about what I think of as the Average American.
I guess, to me the AA is someone with a high school diploma, employed but likely underpaid, and is one catastrophic illness/injury from bankruptcy.
What's funny/sad about that is most, if not all, social issues ARE economic ones.
Its the main reason why economics is not a hard science, you can't factor in 'social' into your equations.
plastroncafe
06-01-2018, 02:32 PM
Its the main reason why economics is not a hard science, you can't factor in 'social' into your equations.
And here I thought it was just all the gambling.
;)
It is fascinating, I will give it that. I just don't have any background it in at all.
TurtleWA
06-01-2018, 02:54 PM
at what point did all the news networks become Fox News of the left?
Not a simple answer. Most likely it happened slowly over many years. It’s weird to think back around the time Obama was elected president that Tucker Carlson was on MSNBC and Glen Beck was on HLN/CNN. IIRC. So maybe if I had to pick a year I’d say around 2008 folks in media really started picking teams. Or at least being more obvious about the team they support. IMO.
What's funny/sad about that is most, if not all, social issues ARE economic ones.
True. However when numbers come up eyes glaze over. And the economy is similar to all other issues in that not all “experts” agree with all ideas.
But it's a good question, about what I think of as the Average American. I guess, to me the AA is someone with a high school diploma, employed but likely underpaid, and is one catastrophic illness/injury from bankruptcy.
I would not be able to guess if the AA is a liberal or conservative. Or their grasp on any particular issue. I think their are uninformed/low information voters on both sides. Nothing anyone can do about it. :tconfuse:
Sumac
06-01-2018, 10:02 PM
French, Canadian and Mexican outlets are definitely reporting a lot on this. I wasn't trying to make a statement of "people don't follow the important news" with my question.
I know the other news are far more easy to have an opinion and be passionate about it but I don't know, I expected more from this.
Reporting, yes, but do "average citizens" in those country care about it?
Mayhem
08-21-2018, 04:50 PM
Well, this is all going swimmingly....
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2018/aug/21/michael-cohen-latest-live-news-updates-trump-lawyer-plea-deal-charges
Autbot_Benz
08-21-2018, 05:07 PM
Well, this is all going swimmingly....
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2018/aug/21/michael-cohen-latest-live-news-updates-trump-lawyer-plea-deal-charges
yup Manafort is charged as Guilty and Micheal Cohen Pleads Guilty
https://i.imgur.com/Qe3L9l3.gif
IndigoErth
08-21-2018, 05:23 PM
Trumpty Dumpty sat on a wall... (Oh wait, he can't.)
Autbot_Benz
08-21-2018, 06:41 PM
https://i.imgur.com/SFdhp1O.jpg
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
08-21-2018, 06:49 PM
And yet, our President will remain unscathed and in office. Just watch.
People need to quit wishing for an impeachment or whatever, and make some serious plans for 2020. That's the only real option the other side has.
(Myself, I'll be shocked if we don't see a Two Term Trump.)
Andrew NDB
08-21-2018, 06:51 PM
And yet, our President will remain unscathed and in office. Just watch.
Nonsense, this is IT!!! Just like all the other times!!
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
08-21-2018, 07:01 PM
Nonsense, this is IT!!! Just like all the other times!!
Y'know the last time a President didn't get reelected? George H.W. Bush. Why? Because taxes were increased when he said they wouldn't. AKA, the bottom line, AKA money.
Clinton did a bunch of scummy stuff. We reelected him and skipped over all the lies, the sex crimes, etc.
George W. Bush did a bunch of scummy stuff. We reelected him and skipped over all the lies, the wars, the trampling of the Constitution.
Only way Trump doesn't last a full term is if somebody finds an underage body in his trunk or his bed. With pictures.
Andrew NDB
08-21-2018, 07:19 PM
Y'know the last time a President didn't get reelected? George H.W. Bush. Why? Because taxes were increased when he said they wouldn't. AKA, the bottom line, AKA money.
Clinton did a bunch of scummy stuff. We reelected him and skipped over all the lies, the sex crimes, etc.
George W. Bush did a bunch of scummy stuff. We reelected him and skipped over all the lies, the wars, the trampling of the Constitution.
Only way Trump doesn't last a full term is if somebody finds an underage body in his trunk or his bed. With pictures.
100% correct. All of this. Dollars and jobs... the rest is noise.
plastroncafe
08-21-2018, 07:22 PM
Personally I'd prefer it if people aimed for 2018, rather than 2020. I'll never quite understand why people focus all of their efforts on an election with their physical vote has the least amount of power.
It's just sad that most people aren't going to get hosed by income taxes until after this upcoming midterm election.
I checked my withholding, have you guys?
even changing it halfway through the tax year puts me on the line for about $1, 000 in taxes I wasn't accounting for.
for what it's worth though, I don't know that this is exactly the death knell for this Administration either. Not because I don't think they deserve it, but because I don't want to get my hopes up only to have them pulled away from me at the last second. I'm still reeling over the disappointment that there aren't taco trucks on every corner.
Machias Banshee
08-21-2018, 08:49 PM
This thread is closed for review.
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