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Avenger
07-03-2017, 03:28 PM
Hello everyone,

So far, I know there are 3 different turtles comics:

Mirage turtles
Archie Adventures
IDW turtles

We could count Nick's turtles as 4th comic.

Archie comics being near FW show's tone, we can say the most "serious" turtles were with Image and IDW.

But... there is any interesting turtles comics that existed between these 2 "eras"?

Andrew NDB
07-03-2017, 03:31 PM
But... there is any interesting turtles comics that existed between these 2 "eras"?

Anything interesting? No.

Candy Kappa
07-03-2017, 03:32 PM
There was a short lived 4Kids comic by Dreamwave that was between Image and IDW, but Mirage's Volume 4 is also between that parameter.

Avenger
07-03-2017, 03:45 PM
Anything interesting? No.

That's sad, considering there is a laps of almost 25 years between Image and IDW.

neatoman
07-03-2017, 03:46 PM
Hello everyone,

So far, I know there are 3 different turtles comics:

Image turtles
Archie Adventures
IDW turtles

We could count Nick's turtles as 4th comic.

Archie comics being near FW show's tone, we can say the most "serious" turtles were with Image and IDW.

But... there is any interesting turtles comics that existed between these 2 "eras"?

You're strictly talking non-Mirage Studios here?

CyberCubed
07-03-2017, 03:46 PM
Mirage went on from 1984-2010, with various breaks inbetween.

Image was from 1997-1998 and was basically "Volume 3" of the Mirage run.

Avenger
07-03-2017, 03:53 PM
You're strictly talking non-Mirage Studios here?

I edited myself, I wanted to say "Mirage Turtles". I guess I saw Image Turtles somewhere on this forum.

I didn't realize Mirage has gone so long. I thought all their comics were made in 4 or 5 years.

CyberCubed
07-03-2017, 04:15 PM
The original Mirage run went from 1984-1995 continuously with very small gaps. Then Image took over from 1997-1998. Then Mirage started publishing themselves again in 2001 and went to 2010.

IDW TMNT started in 2011....only 1 year after the final Mirage comic was published.

neatoman
07-03-2017, 04:57 PM
I edited myself, I wanted to say "Mirage Turtles". I guess I saw Image Turtles somewhere on this forum.

I didn't realize Mirage has gone so long. I thought all their comics were made in 4 or 5 years.

The basics:

Mirage Studios, starts 1984 and goes on until 1995, starts up again around 2001 and technically hasn't stopped (though to keep things simple, let's they did around 2010).

Image Comics published a continuation after 1995 but it was declared non-canon by Mirage's relaunch. It doesn't matter if you're trying to keep continuity straight and there seems to be some problems with the copyright, so don't bother trying to find it through legal means.

Archie comics, published a series called "Adventures" between 1988 and 1995. It's purpose was essentially to be part of the "Turtlemania" hype machine, spread interest to the toyline like the FW cartoon, read it if you want but I wouldn't recommend it.

Dreamwave tried to do the same for the 2003 show, bombed like crazy and is generally considered to be the most incomprehensive trash a "real" TMNT comic has ever been.

IDW, current publisher since 2011, their main series is a reboot without direct ties to previous project. They have also published Nickelodeon themed comics that will end this year.

As for finding these comics, IDW has reprinted most major series in some capacity, it's pretty easy to find.

mrmaczaps
07-03-2017, 05:00 PM
The basics:

Mirage Studios, starts 1984 and goes on until 1995, starts up again around 2001 and technically hasn't stopped (though to keep things simple, let's they did around 2010).

Image Comics published a continuation after 1995 but it was declared non-canon by Mirage's relaunch. It doesn't matter if you're trying to keep continuity straight and there seems to be some problems with the copyright, so don't bother trying to find it through legal means.

Archie comics, published a series called "Adventures" between 1988 and 1995. It's purpose was essentially to be part of the "Turtlemania" hype machine, spread interest to the toyline like the FW cartoon, read it if you want but I wouldn't recommend it.

Dreamwave tried to do the same for the 2003 show, bombed like crazy and is generally considered to be the most incomprehensive trash a "real" TMNT comic has ever been.

IDW, current publisher since 2011, their main series is a reboot without direct ties to previous project. They have also published Nickelodeon themed comics that will end this year.

As for finding these comics, IDW has reprinted most major series in some capacity, it's pretty easy to find.

I don't mind the 7 issue DW run... its not great, but after issue 4 or 5 when it tried to tell its own stories, it didn't seem to bad to me...

Also, there doesn't seem to be issues from IMAGE for IDW doing reprints... I think its more IDW not wanting to do the Image series and/or share the sales of the reprinted stuff there... but I could be wrong. Two years ago now I recall seeing something about potential for Image to be reprinted as long as the Image characters are NOT featured on the front or back covers of the collected editions.

CyberCubed
07-03-2017, 05:31 PM
Archie has great storylines and got much more serious after the first 25ish issues. Some of the best TMNT storylines happened in that series.

pferreira
07-06-2017, 02:44 PM
What's the general consensus of the Dreamwave comics TMNT? What did people like or dislike about it? I see it discussed so little here I forget it even exists.

Archie has great storylines and got much more serious after the first 25ish issues. Some of the best TMNT storylines happened in that series.I bought an issue at the time from one of the later issues. I found it really complex and continuity heavy. I'm sure I'd love it now if I tried to read it. At the time it was just so different to FW and Mirage.

DevilSpooky
07-06-2017, 07:09 PM
What's the general consensus of the Dreamwave comics TMNT? What did people like or dislike about it? I see it discussed so little here I forget it even exists.

I bought an issue at the time from one of the later issues. I found it really complex and continuity heavy. I'm sure I'd love it now if I tried to read it. At the time it was just so different to FW and Mirage.

They weren't that bad to look at, had nice designs, looked like they took screens of the episodes and made a comic out of them, but the story went nowhere fast and became too confusing right before cancelation, it died before it could go anywhere.

Andrew NDB
07-06-2017, 07:56 PM
Also, there doesn't seem to be issues from IMAGE for IDW doing reprints... I think its more IDW not wanting to do the Image series and/or share the sales of the reprinted stuff there... but I could be wrong.

IDW hasn't reprinted Image/Vol. 3 because Nickelodeon won't let them. It is literally that simple. Erik isn't looking for a piece of the pie.

mrmaczaps
07-06-2017, 09:26 PM
IDW hasn't reprinted Image/Vol. 3 because Nickelodeon won't let them. It is literally that simple. Erik isn't looking for a piece of the pie.

They're just working through Tales v2 still right?
I would hope they do vol 3 as a couple hard covers only... and then insert the conclusion that was rumored to be in negotiations... or do single issues, the conclusion as new work and then what, three trades?

IDW could do 3 giant hard covers with 8 issues in the first two (each) and then the final one add whateber is needed to conclude the series...

Or do hard covers and then the single issue conclusion issues... and then collect it...

Why leave money on the table. Fans will buy it. I'm broke and I'd find a way to buy it and I own the whole series already....

Andrew NDB
07-07-2017, 12:41 AM
Why leave money on the table. Fans will buy it. I'm broke and I'd find a way to buy it and I own the whole series already....

Probably too violent/controversial for Nick to want out there. They appear to have a pretty specific "image" of the TMNT (no pun intended) they want to stick to at large. If it isn't "Heyyy dudes!" and Bebop then it doesn't rate.

Money? It might make IDW a respectable sum... but what Nick would get in their standard license fees from IDW on it wouldn't be enough to move the needle for them to let something TMNT be out there that's something they're not comfortable with. And Nick is the only party whose approvals matter.

oldmanwinters
07-07-2017, 08:48 AM
Don't forget Digital Webbing Presents #24!
http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2009/08/digital-webbing-presents-24.html

mrmaczaps
07-07-2017, 06:39 PM
Don't forget Digital Webbing Presents #24!
http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2009/08/digital-webbing-presents-24.html

Don't forget it as in you want it reprinted? I have two of the non turtle covers, signed for sale... its not that great a story... almost no dialogue...

pferreira
07-13-2017, 09:37 AM
They weren't that bad to look at, had nice designs, looked like they took screens of the episodes and made a comic out of them, but the story went nowhere fast and became too confusing right before cancelation, it died before it could go anywhere.Oh ok, that's a shame.

IDW hasn't reprinted Image/Vol. 3 because Nickelodeon won't let them. It is literally that simple. Erik isn't looking for a piece of the pie.So why is Bobby going on about reprints of Vol 3 being worked on in the Ask the Editor thread? ;)

Andrew NDB
07-13-2017, 11:09 AM
So why is Bobby going on about reprints of Vol 3 being worked on in the Ask the Editor thread? ;)

He isn't, and Bobby has nothing to do with IDW's reprints. The Vol. 3 reprints are exactly where they've been at for 4, 5 years... nowhere. Frank was approached years ago to see if he'd be willing to do a cover for it years ago, but they never actually commissioned him. And that's that. Nick won't let IDW proceed.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-13-2017, 11:11 AM
He isn't, and Bobby has nothing to do with IDW's reprints. The Vol. 3 reprints are exactly where they've been at for 4, 5 years... nowhere. Frank was approached years ago to see if he'd be willing to do a cover for it years ago, but they never actually commissioned him. And that's that. Nick won't let IDW proceed.

We keep asking Bobby and he keeps saying it's gonna happen...

But I doubt it. I'm honestly surprised Nick lets IDW reprint the original Mirage at all.

Andrew NDB
07-13-2017, 11:14 AM
We keep asking Bobby and he keeps saying it's gonna happen...

Continually saying "it's on the schedule, I think" but with no actual release date means we're sitting exactly where we've been sitting since about 2012. You go back way further in that thread he admits to the "obstacles" with Nick.

AquaParade
07-13-2017, 11:18 AM
An oversized hardcover collecting the whole Image run would be...just the greatest thing ever.

Unfortunately, it may be a long time until we even see paperbacks.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-13-2017, 11:21 AM
Continually saying "it's on the schedule, I think" but with no actual release date means we're sitting exactly where we've been sitting since about 2012. You go back way further in that thread he admits to the "obstacles" with Nick.

I understand Nick wanting to keep TMNT's cartoon/kid-friendly image, but...

There's really not much difference in tone between Mirage Volumes 1 and 2 and Image Volume 3. Except, for instance, Pimiko's 90's Image/dominatrix costume. Maybe a little more language.

But IDW drops more casual expletives than Mirage did. Peter was kind of a prude when it came to anything more than "hell" or "damn." He preferred "holy hippo spit." :tlol: And Donatello getting his shell cracked open in Image showed less actual blood than IDW did.

I guess it's all just corporate control freaks.

Andrew NDB
07-13-2017, 11:23 AM
I understand Nick wanting to keep TMNT's cartoon/kid-friendly image, but...

There's really not much difference in tone between Mirage Volumes 1 and 2 and Image Volume 3. Except, for instance, Pimiko's 90's Image/dominatrix costume. Maybe a little more language.

Knowing Nick, it's the violence and only the violence. #1 opens up with one of the Turtles getting shot in the face. With a gun.

Compare that to, say, all of the summer shorts they just commissioned.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-13-2017, 11:27 AM
Knowing Nick, it's the violence and only the violence. #1 opens up with one of the Turtles getting shot in the face. With a gun.

Compare that to, say, all of the summer shorts they just commissioned.

Yeah, but Mirage had plenty of violence, too. Baxter Stockman cutting open his own skull to take out his brain, the City at War saga, Casey Jones killing a 13-yr-old kid, an old guy living aboard a porn shop getting blown up...

Sigh.

I really really hate this. I don't understand why a major corporation wouldn't want to offer Ninja Turtles to multiple audiences. Why not appeal to the kindergartners AND the middle schoolers?

If Warner Brothers can do the Lego Batman movie and Batman V Superman at the same time, Nick should suck it up and loosen the reins.

Andrew NDB
07-13-2017, 12:23 PM
Yeah, but Mirage had plenty of violence, too. Baxter Stockman cutting open his own skull to take out his brain, the City at War saga, Casey Jones killing a 13-yr-old kid, an old guy living aboard a porn shop getting blown up...

We don't really see Baxter doing the cutting, or the old guy's body exploding or anything. One of the Turtles actually getting shot in the face with a gun -- "gun violence" -- probably makes them super nervous.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-13-2017, 12:52 PM
We don't really see Baxter doing the cutting, or the old guy's body exploding or anything. One of the Turtles actually getting shot in the face with a gun -- "gun violence" -- probably makes them super nervous.

Yeah, you're probably right...

CyberCubed
07-13-2017, 01:11 PM
I think the difference is IDW doesn't like the violence happening toward the Turtles. Some human enemies can killed, Shredder can have his head chopped off, etc...but it's all done "tastefully."

Stuff in Mirage is much lighter than what you'd see in an R rated movie for example.

plastroncafe
07-13-2017, 01:18 PM
I don't think it's just content that keeps Image down, but also tone.
That series SCREAMS the 1990s, for good and ill.
To the point that it almost reads like parody now.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-13-2017, 01:19 PM
I don't think it's just content that keeps Image down, but also tone.
That series SCREAMS the 1990s, for good and ill.
To the point that it almost reads like parody now.

That is absolutely true. Some of those issues scream "Nineties!!!" from the rooftops with a megaphone. :tlol:

Andrew NDB
07-13-2017, 01:29 PM
I dunno, I don't see 90s about it at all. Maybe just Pimiko's outfit? If you know Frank, he's all about Jack Kirby's style. All about it, from the beginning of his career, and it's all on the page. Since the 70s. And the tone and story beats in the comic aren't so different from, say, what Gary Carlson was doing for years in Big Bang Comics (which is very retro and very not 90s).

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-13-2017, 01:42 PM
I dunno, I don't see 90s about it at all. Maybe just Pimiko's outfit? If you know Frank, he's all about Jack Kirby's style. All about it, from the beginning of his career, and it's all on the page. Since the 70s. And the tone and story beats in the comic aren't so different from, say, what Gary Carlson was doing for years in Big Bang Comics (which is very retro and very not 90s).

Some of the dialogue is pretty 90's. The macho of Raph in the earlier issues.

But I love it anyways; favorite volume of TMNT, hands down.

Andrew NDB
07-13-2017, 01:53 PM
Some of the dialogue is pretty 90's. The macho of Raph in the earlier issues.

I guess I can see how it would seem that way. For me, I just have trouble with the "It's deliberately so 90s!" when neither Gary or Frank have like a single 90s bone in their body, creatively. They are, like... the anti-90s guys. And I don't think Erik was necessarily breathing down anyone's neck to "90s it up" during the run (though Erik can be blamed for the... transformations of all of the Turtles, be it mutilation, bat creature, etc.).

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-13-2017, 01:58 PM
I guess I can see how it would seem that way. For me, I just have trouble with the "It's deliberately so 90s!" when neither Gary or Frank have like a single 90s bone in their body, creatively. They are, like... the anti-90s guys. And I don't think Erik was necessarily breathing down anyone's neck to "90s it up" during the run (though Erik can be blamed for the... transformations of all of the Turtles, be it mutilation, bat creature, etc.).

The only transformation that ever seemed "um, what?" to me was Bat-Splinter.

And Frank does draw some siiiiiiiiiick cyborgs. :tgrin:

CyberCubed
07-14-2017, 03:51 PM
It's too bad that Viacom won't allow them to re-print it. I can understand avoiding something like the Bodycount mini-series, but Image TMNT was not like that at all.

Andrew NDB
07-14-2017, 03:57 PM
It's too bad that Viacom won't allow them to re-print it. I can understand avoiding something like the Bodycount mini-series, but Image TMNT was not like that at all.

Kind of underscores the fundamental problem with "Viacom's TMNT"... if they can't even show Image TMNT level stuff and refuse to let the TMNT kill anyone in any medium, what they hell are they doing?

Powder
07-14-2017, 04:53 PM
What's weird is that they'll put sex jokes in their new movies, gore in their new comics/cartoons, but they won't reprint past material whose contents is equal to if not less severe than those... Dafuc?

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-14-2017, 07:51 PM
What's weird is that they'll put sex jokes in their new movies, gore in their new comics/cartoons, but they won't reprint past material whose contents is equal to if not less severe than those... Dafuc?

I think it's probably because Nick sees Michael Bay's production company as sure money, and are willing to take a few more risks with that than reprinting old comics that probably only sell to existing fans.

pferreira
07-20-2017, 09:35 AM
He isn't, and Bobby has nothing to do with IDW's reprints. The Vol. 3 reprints are exactly where they've been at for 4, 5 years... nowhere. He keeps being asked and Bobby keeps saying it'll happen eventually so yeah as I said. ;)