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View Full Version : New mutants serving Shredder in future shows


ninja-zero
07-03-2017, 03:08 PM
If TMNT were to continue in the future, Shredder might have Bebop & Rocksteady join him.

But since Tiger Claw, Xever/Fishface, Bradford/Dogpound/Rahzar, how do you picture new mutants joining Shredder?

Like what animals do you all see used to serve him?

I can picture a chameleon, skunk & spider joining him. But as a "mutant ninja elite guard". As a means to rival the turtles.

CyberCubed
07-03-2017, 03:19 PM
I don't know if we'll continuously see new mutants join Shredder. New shows could continue to use Bebop/Rocksteady or Tiger Claw, Fishface and Rahzar again.

In IDW Shredder briefly had Alopex, Koya and Bludgeon under his command, but that was only for a short time.

neatoman
07-03-2017, 04:12 PM
How about not having mutant henchmen? Did you consider that?

Peter Laird said overuse of mutants kind devalues the theme of loneliness with the turtles, which is a fair point even though there might be some disagreements about how many are "too" many. Regardless of which, adding even more doesn't help.

And then there's the elephant in the room, it's usually just a flimsy excuse to market action figures. Bebop, Rocksteady, Mondo Gecko, Fishface, Tiger Claw, Muckman, Slash, Snakeweed, the list goes on. They're not really characters, characters serve a narrative purpose that move the plot and contributes to the growth of other characters, they just show up and fill the role a bunch of no-names could or disappear as quickly as they came, because they're glorified toys.

Bottom line, don't create new mutants or even use old mutants unless you have an actual reason to do so.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
07-03-2017, 04:22 PM
How about not having mutant henchmen? Did you consider that?

Peter Laird said overuse of mutants kind devalues the theme of loneliness with the turtles, which is a fair point even though there might be some disagreements about how many are "too" many. Regardless of which, adding even more doesn't help.

And then there's the elephant in the room, it's usually just a flimsy excuse to market action figures. Bebop, Rocksteady, Mondo Gecko, Fishface, Tiger Claw, Muckman, Slash, Snakeweed, the list goes on. They're not really characters, characters serve a narrative purpose that move the plot and contributes to the growth of other characters, they just show up and fill the role a bunch of no-names could or disappear as quickly as they came, because they're glorified toys.

Bottom line, don't create new mutants or even use old mutants unless you have an actual reason to do so.

I agree the new series had too many mutants just to sell action figures, but having anything between 20-150 mutants on a planet with 7 000 000 000 humans doesn't devalues the loneliness so much.

However, the mutants could've been more spread around Earth and hide at different places, like when the Archieverse had the Mutanimals in Brazil.

Powder
07-03-2017, 04:22 PM
The Foot Clan should have a grand total of zero mutants on the team.

But if they absolutely have to, I'd want Tokka & Rahzar. Big, brutal, & feral. Monsters, not goofballs or badasses.

CyberCubed
07-03-2017, 04:33 PM
We had the 2k3 series with virtually no mutants. Shredder's henchmen were Karai, Baxter, Hun and various Foot and Elite Ninja.

ninja-zero
07-03-2017, 07:17 PM
What I'd picture the Foot having?

Shredder
Karai
Hun (not the Bruce Lee version)

But also four elite ninja mutants plus Bebop & Rocksteady, but from the Purple Dragons.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
07-04-2017, 03:11 AM
We had the 2k3 series with virtually no mutants. Shredder's henchmen were Karai, Baxter, Hun and various Foot and Elite Ninja.

They had those captured people turned into monsters in the underground.

2K3
07-04-2017, 04:02 AM
I've been up and down with mutants on the Foot Clan. Personally I'd prefer if Bebop and Rocksteady joined Hun with the Purple Dragons (they'd feel more at home with them than the Foot).

Out of all of the more recent mutants created for the Foot, the only two I liked were IDW's Koya (being Shredder's pet falcon has it's advantages) and Nick's Tiger Claw (love his code of honor). The rest just felt tacked on!

ninja-zero
07-04-2017, 07:32 PM
Koya would be leading a mutant elite.

Coola Yagami
07-04-2017, 08:37 PM
New characters are always welcome, mutants or not. We have Hun thanks to 2K3 not rehashing Bebop and Rocksteady and making a new henchman. We have Fishface, Rahzar (who is basically an all-new character with nothing in common but the name) and TigerClaw in the Nick show and IDW threw in Kitsune, Alopex (when she was evil), Koya and Bludgeon.

So while I don't mind Karai coming back, let's give Shredder an all-new henchman, mutant or not.

CyberCubed
07-04-2017, 11:57 PM
New characters are always welcome, mutants or not. We have Hun thanks to 2K3 not rehashing Bebop and Rocksteady and making a new henchman. We have Fishface, Rahzar (who is basically an all-new character with nothing in common but the name) and TigerClaw in the Nick show and IDW threw in Kitsune, Alopex (when she was evil), Koya and Bludgeon.

So while I don't mind Karai coming back, let's give Shredder an all-new henchman, mutant or not.

The only reason they created those characters was to fill a role that didn't exist before. Hun was created because they couldn't use Tatsu. Tiger Claw was created because the Nick cartoon is mutant heavy. They all function in the same role as Shredder's main enforcer. You really don't need tons of redundant characters, same reason Baxter has worked for Shredder in all 3 cartoons rather than creating a new generic scientist character.

Also Koya/Bludgeon were only with Shredder a very short time, they're mostly Karai's mutants rather than his. IDW went with the same Karai, Hun and Bebop/Rocksteady henchmen we're used to.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
07-05-2017, 05:47 AM
Why couldn't Tatsu be used (even if Hun is so much cooler, especially for a series)? Did he belong to New Line Cinema or something?

FredWolfLeonardo
07-05-2017, 10:23 AM
Why couldn't Tatsu be used (even if Hun is so much cooler, especially for a series)? Did he belong to New Line Cinema or something?

I think its because the 2k3 show was trying to stick to Mirage as closely as possible when it came to characters and Peter Laird would've not wanted to use characters exclusive to the movies and Original cartoon.

CyberCubed
07-05-2017, 12:06 PM
Basically. There was also a rumor going around for a long time that the movie characters like Tatsu, Prof Jordan Perry, Keno, or Walker and Princess Mitsu and Lord Norinaga were owned by New Line Cinema and couldn't be used elsewhere, but I never knew if that was confirmed or not. Probably because they were portrayed by real life actors.

Whereas mutant animals like Rahzar/Tokka were easily used in other things like the original cartoon and videogames before the modern era.

Andrew NDB
07-05-2017, 12:30 PM
The Foot Clan should have a grand total of zero mutants on the team.

This. Yes, this.

ninja-zero
07-05-2017, 01:54 PM
This. Yes, this.

Fun... but boring to me.

neatoman
07-05-2017, 02:13 PM
The Foot Clan should have a grand total of zero mutants on the team.

But if they absolutely have to, I'd want Tokka & Rahzar. Big, brutal, & feral. Monsters, not goofballs or badasses.

Yeah, good approach.

***First of Two Latin Kings***
07-05-2017, 03:47 PM
Basically. There was also a rumor going around for a long time that the movie characters like Tatsu, Prof Jordan Perry, Keno, or Walker and Princess Mitsu and Lord Norinaga were owned by New Line Cinema and couldn't be used elsewhere, but I never knew if that was confirmed or not. Probably because they were portrayed by real life actors.

Whereas mutant animals like Rahzar/Tokka were easily used in other things like the original cartoon and videogames before the modern era.

Doesn't make sense. Their likenesses get used here and there. Why should the names be a problem? The characters are owned by Nick, not the actors who portrayed them.

neatoman
07-05-2017, 03:53 PM
Doesn't make sense. Their likenesses get used here and there. Why should the names be a problem? The characters are owned by Nick, not the actors who portrayed them.

I think he's refering to the actors right to get royalties (I think it's royalties, please correct me if I'm wrong) in case someone feels like using their likeness. Regardless, it's not that relevant, just make them look noticeably different from the actors and there won't be any problems.

CyberCubed
07-05-2017, 05:43 PM
Doesn't make sense. Their likenesses get used here and there. Why should the names be a problem? The characters are owned by Nick, not the actors who portrayed them.

Yeah, aren't there any royalties involved because these characters were brought to life with real life actors? For example characters like Casey and April already existed before the movies so it didn't matter, or characters like Rahzar/Tokka are mutants and not real people....

But Tatsu, Keno, Prof. Jordan Perry, all the Movie III characters, etc. remained in limbo for years. I think the only reason Nick got away with using Tatsu is because "Tatsu" just means dragon and the guy just looked like any generic bald foot soldier.

Ninjinister
07-05-2017, 06:27 PM
I still call BS on the "need actors' permission" to use the characters. For one, they don't have to look even vaguely similar to their film counterparts. If we can have Hun be evil Bruce Lee, then Danny Pennington could be bald or have a crew cut or a goatee or be black, Hispanic, or f**king Hmong if they really wanted to use him.

And second, I am certain that more than a few actors would approve. TMNT was an important part of Ernie Reyes Jr.'s career and he's always down to do some TMNT-related stuff so the only thing I can see keeping him from approving of Keno's look in the series would be a draconian contract. The guy who played Norinaga is already f**king in the show so again, I don't see that being a stipulation.

Not to mention, all of the original human characters were pretty generic in appearance anyway, basing on the fact that you know, they're just people. Keno's probably the only one with a semi-iconic look and in any case there's probably 11,000 Asian delivery boys with mullets in the world. And if they really wanted, they could name drop Keno as Ciro's character anyway.

Xav
07-05-2017, 08:20 PM
I think the only reason Nick got away with using Tatsu is because "Tatsu" just means dragon and the guy just looked like any generic bald foot soldier.What are you talking about? The show had no generic bald Foot Soldiers. The cartoon Tatsu looked just like Toshishiro Obata, he even had the same mustache and everything.

Coola Yagami
07-06-2017, 06:36 AM
I honestly don't think 2K3 were intending to use Tatsu. Don't just assume because Hun happens to fill the same general role. Why would they use a character that was only in the 90s movies kids in 2K3 wouldn't know or care about.

Yes to new characters. They help the franchise grow.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
07-06-2017, 08:42 AM
Yes to new characters. They help the franchise grow.

Only if they're great, like Hun and Tigerclaw (Bebop and Rocksteady are great in the original seires). Dogpound, Fishface and Snake aren't.

Andrew NDB
07-06-2017, 09:59 AM
Something's going on with Tatsu on the Nick cartoon. Bobby remarked ages ago that Tatsu was on their "no fly" list for the IDW comic, due to rights from Golden Harvest. Yet the actual Nick cartoon can use not only the character, but roughly the likeness? Something had to have happened.

I actually wouldn't mind Tatsu or a Tatsu-like character being Shredder's #1.

Fun... but boring to me.

Yes, anything that's not "TMNT: Mutant Extravaganza" must = Boring. You sound like the boring one, sir.

Cobrakahn
07-06-2017, 12:32 PM
I would appreciate a return to classic Rocksteady and Bebop for mutant henchmen but would be happy with a return of the nickelodeon henchmen. They did such a great job with Rockwell and Sever I would love to see them again.

CyberCubed
07-06-2017, 12:34 PM
Something's going on with Tatsu on the Nick cartoon. Bobby remarked ages ago that Tatsu was on their "no fly" list for the IDW comic, due to rights from Golden Harvest. Yet the actual Nick cartoon can use not only the character, but roughly the likeness? Something had to have happened..

I honestly think it would be funny if Viacom specifically sought out the the rights to use Tatsu of all the movie characters, and him only.

I mean nobody is begging for the return of Keno the pizza delivery boy, Prof. Jordan Perry, Danny the runnaway kid, Pennington, or Princess Mitsu, Walker, or Lord Norinaga, are there?

Xav
07-06-2017, 12:59 PM
Something's going on with Tatsu on the Nick cartoon. Bobby remarked ages ago that Tatsu was on their "no fly" list for the IDW comic, due to rights from Golden Harvest. Yet the actual Nick cartoon can use not only the character, but roughly the likeness? Something had to have happened.Maybe giving him a surname, making him blind and a swordsman was a enough to legally make him a different character?

GoldMutant
07-06-2017, 01:57 PM
I mean nobody is begging for the return of Keno the pizza delivery boy, Prof. Jordan Perry, Danny the runnaway kid, Pennington, or Princess Mitsu, Walker, or Lord Norinaga, are there?

I personally liked Perry, even if Professor Harold in IDW has pretty much filled his role.

Of all the movie characters, however, Norinaga is the one movie villain/character I want back. There was so much untapped potential with him. Couldn't they have tied him to the Foot as an ancestor? :ohwell: I'd kill for him to return in a time travel scenario for a few episodes/comic issues in a new incarnation.

Miles better than Walker or Eric Sachs for sure.

Andrew NDB
07-06-2017, 01:57 PM
Maybe giving him a surname, making him blind and a swordsman was a enough to legally make him a different character?

They did that? Then yeah, maybe.

pferreira
07-06-2017, 02:43 PM
I think overusing the whole thing about Shredder having mutant henchmen isn't good for creativity. I suppose if they created a new villain they could give that character some henchmen but still it wouldn't be good to overuse that villain or those mutant henchmen. Some people here have suggested using previous mutants like the mutants from TMNT II, again I don't see the point of using them when they've appeared so much already. At least they shouldn't be used as villains every episode.

ToTheNines
07-06-2017, 02:44 PM
Mirage used Charles Pennington. No physical resemblance though.

Ninjinister
07-06-2017, 10:35 PM
I would appreciate a return to classic Rocksteady and Bebop for mutant henchmen but would be happy with a return of the nickelodeon henchmen. They did such a great job with Rockwell and Sever I would love to see them again.

Fishface's name is actually Xever but like... Rockwell is the monkey on the Mutanimals.

ninja-zero
07-15-2017, 05:56 PM
I think having mutant henchmen Shredder might balance it out.

Bebop & Rocksteady are brawlers. So its time Shredder had mutants who are "ninjas" for once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu584pho8NY

But I don't wanna leave out Hun. Give him back his old incarnations. NOT the Bruce Lee one!

Powder
07-15-2017, 06:14 PM
Why the heck did you post the Ronin Warriors song though?

ninja-zero
07-15-2017, 06:17 PM
Why the heck did you post the Ronin Warriors song though?

Well... in the opening theme, picture the turtles fighting their own mutant rival. Bebop & Rocksteady can come later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu584pho8NY 0:44-0:58

shredder orokusaki
08-28-2017, 07:27 AM
Baxter Stokman is already working on my new henchmen that i will have from 2018 and beyond! They will be a mutant duck a spider and a elephant. All of them were foot ninajs working form e that i decided to mutate due to their skills and power be better than the other foot ninjas. You will see them soon enough. For now just wait!

Tetsu Deinonychus
08-30-2017, 01:01 PM
This. Yes, this.

What about the weird Mutant Shredder Clones?

Also, while I don't mind seeing Mutants when they fit the story, I don't think every version of TMNT needs to bring back every mutant from past versions. And, I don't think Shredder always needs hench-mutants either.

neatoman
08-30-2017, 01:11 PM
What about the weird Mutant Shredder Clones?

Also, while I don't mind seeing Mutants when they fit the story, I don't think every version of TMNT needs to bring back every mutant from past versions. And, I don't think Shredder always needs hench-mutants either.

Well they're not really "mutants" as much as they're just botched experiments.

Andrew NDB
08-30-2017, 01:21 PM
What about the weird Mutant Shredder Clones?

They worked for me in Mirage (big surprise) where they weren't mutants or clones (not exactly). I mean, it made sense. Each one was an experiment of the Foot/Mashima to make sure the Oroku Saki resurrection would be a successful one, and they were kept around just in case they were ever needed.

And, I don't think Shredder always needs hench-mutants either.

I don't think he ever needs hench-mutants. As soon as you make Oroku Saki into the kind of Foot leader that would hire someone like Bebop or Rocksteady to do stuff for his covert ninja organization, he immediately loses all credibility.

Powder
08-30-2017, 03:23 PM
I don't think he ever needs hench-mutants. As soon as you make Oroku Saki into the kind of Foot leader that would hire someone like Bebop or Rocksteady to do stuff for his covert ninja organization, he immediately loses all credibility.

Exactly. The guy's a basically a Yakuza ninja master. The key element to his nefarious operation carrying on successfully is having men who are stealthy, silent, & consistently lethal. A proper Shredder just needs ninja. None of this Fred Wolf-born monsters breaking into banks typa nonsense. In my mind, he should hate mutants, both for what they've personally done to him, & for how they can be equated to demons of Japanese folklore.

Panda_Kahn_fan
08-30-2017, 04:52 PM
The idea that Shredder, as a ninja, would only use his ninja underlings and not mutate and use thugs like Bebop and Rocksteady... is an unrealistic and hollow fantasy.

Ninjas used ANYTHING; any advantage, any ally, any weapon- in order to be successful. Swords failing you? Get guns and explosives. Normal ninja stealth tricks not working? camo gear and stealth equipment. His ninjas fail in dealing with the turtles? Get two stupid punks who aren't trained ninja (that way, if the mutation is fatal, no loss to the foot) turn them into indestructible monsters, and turn them loose on the TMNT to destroy them. If those two loud, un-ninja death machines get captured or killed- no loss or provable connection to the foot clan.

I always roll my eyes at junk like 'ninja clans wouldn't use modern weapons', 'ninja wouldn't ally with gajin, or allow gajin to join!', or 'ninja are always cool blood-soaked badass killers'. Oy vey! :roll:

Powder
08-30-2017, 06:02 PM
unrealistic and hollow fantasy.

Kinda like most things post-Mirage.

Panda_Kahn_fan
08-30-2017, 06:04 PM
Kinda like most things post-Mirage.

Ehhhh, I'd say about half-and-half. Some good, some bad. Your mileage may vary. :ohwell:

pferreira
08-31-2017, 11:44 AM
Ehhhh, I'd say about half-and-half. Some good, some bad. Your mileage may vary. :ohwell:Unless a fan is a purist? :lol: