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Donnie
07-07-2017, 06:48 PM
In Mirage, he was physically shrunken ("Honey, I Shrunk the Turtles") and controls a robot-Turtle to get around. Yet, there were Mirage stories which pointed to Donatello living the longest of the Turtles, or at least ending up in Japan as an old Turtle at some point (example: Mirage V2 #1).

In IMAGE, he was blown away by guns on the first page of the first issue, shell was smashed, and he survived by merging with a cyborg. This produced a huge, cumbersome cyborg Donatello who was bipolar and couldn't control himself.

In IDW, his shell was smashed by Rocksteady, he almost bled out, but by some miracle his soul transferred into the body of Metalhead. With the aid of the ooze and Fugitoid, his shell was regrown and he was able to spiritually transfer back into his own body. Gah.

As a Donatello fan, it gets harder to discuss after each occurrence of Donatello's almost-death. The question I pose to you is this -- will Donatello really be the last Turtle standing, as hinted to in past Mirage issues? Every single series, Mirage included, would hint otherwise.

Donatello is clearly the Turtle who is most often targeted by writers. A second question is then raised: is it because, on the whole, Donatello is the least popular Turtle that he gets targeted by writers? By all means, Raphael is the Turtle who would most likely be seriously injured, given his overall temperament and times he goes off alone.

mrmaczaps
07-07-2017, 08:05 PM
In Mirage, he was physically shrunken ("Honey, I Shrunk the Turtles") and controls a robot-Turtle to get around. Yet, there were Mirage stories which pointed to Donatello living the longest of the Turtles, or at least ending up in Japan as an old Turtle at some point (example: Mirage V2 #1).

In IMAGE, he was blown away by guns on the first page of the first issue, shell was smashed, and he survived by merging with a cyborg. This produced a huge, cumbersome cyborg Donatello who was bipolar and couldn't control himself.

In IDW, his shell was smashed by Rocksteady, he almost bled out, but by some miracle his soul transferred into the body of Metalhead. With the aid of the ooze and Fugitoid, his shell was regrown and he was able to spiritually transfer back into his own body. Gah.

As a Donatello fan, it gets harder to discuss after each occurrence of Donatello's almost-death. The question I pose to you is this -- will Donatello really be the last Turtle standing, as hinted to in past Mirage issues? Every single series, Mirage included, would hint otherwise.

Donatello is clearly the Turtle who is most often targeted by writers. A second question is then raised: is it because, on the whole, Donatello is the least popular Turtle that he gets targeted by writers? By all means, Raphael is the Turtle who would most likely be seriously injured, given his overall temperament and times he goes off alone.

Mirage future tales would indicate Donnie gets back to normal in v4...
Image has Raph and Leo pretty messed up as well... and the fan conclusion heals them all.
IDW doesn't really explain the rush back to regular Donnie... hugely rushed and then an equally rushed followup Metalhead tale in TMNTU...

I think Mikey is treated worst over all as he tends to just be either the party guy or the child-like character, which i've never been a fan of... v4 at least had him grow a bit, get pissed and then not really conclude yet... the fan done "Mirage ending" story has some interesting developments for Mikey, which for me fit but still didn't sit right with me...

Leo & Raph are the most fleshed out characters I think...

Donnie
07-09-2017, 08:54 AM
Mirage future tales would indicate Donnie gets back to normal in v4...
Image has Raph and Leo pretty messed up as well... and the fan conclusion heals them all.
IDW doesn't really explain the rush back to regular Donnie... hugely rushed and then an equally rushed followup Metalhead tale in TMNTU...

I think Mikey is treated worst over all as he tends to just be either the party guy or the child-like character, which i've never been a fan of... v4 at least had him grow a bit, get pissed and then not really conclude yet... the fan done "Mirage ending" story has some interesting developments for Mikey, which for me fit but still didn't sit right with me...

Leo & Raph are the most fleshed out characters I think...

Raphael and Leonardo do get messed up in IMAGE, but not mutilated/deformed like Donatello. IDW's "Don is Dead" arc was unnecessary, and probably done for kicks more than anything else. Or, maybe it was a faint nod to IMAGE. I don't care either way. What I found with IDW is that they have fairly good ideas with the Turtles, but the execution is predicable. Obviously they'd choose for Donnie to wind up alone so they can smash his shell because he's the least popular Turtle. But another less talked about example is how they made Leonardo become "dark" and work for Shredder. That whole arc had potential, but at least to me it seemed like a "duh" thing, having Leonardo being the Turtle who is turned to the "dark side" for a bit. Like Dark Ryu in "Street Fighter," or any other evil version of a main (or leader) hero. Michelangelo would have been a far more interesting choice to go "dark," nobody would have seen that coming.

While I agree with you about Michelangelo being pigeon-holed as nothing more than a jokester in the popular media portrayals (movies and TV shows), I do think the comics (IDW included) has done a fantastic job with him. I don't think he's just been comic relief in any of the TMNT comic series. Which is why I find myself favoring Michelangelo the most in TMNT comics, yet when he translates to the screens as nothing but comic relief, my favorite card falls to Donatello.

Sophie Campbell
07-09-2017, 09:52 AM
I always got the impression that Donatello was everyone's favorite, and Leo was the least popular because he's a tightass. Every so often I used to do polls online for people's favorite Turtle and Don was always neck and neck with Raph, and poor Leo lagged behind, haha. I think you're seeing what you want to see on this one. ;)

Donnie
07-09-2017, 07:43 PM
I always got the impression that Donatello was everyone's favorite, and Leo was the least popular because he's a tightass. Every so often I used to do polls online for people's favorite Turtle and Don was always neck and neck with Raph, and poor Leo lagged behind, haha. I think you're seeing what you want to see on this one. ;)

I see what you're saying my friend. I wouldn't be surprised if Don was higher on the favorites list (in fact I'd be quite pleased), it's just that from the polls I've seen, Donnie was last. I ran a poll here in 2012: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=38307, and Don was last. I wonder if we ran that same poll again, if he would be higher on the favorites list.

It's true that it's cool to be smart now!

Sophie, maybe you can write us a future TMNT sequence which answers the question: who is the last Turtle standing? :D

Andrew NDB
07-09-2017, 07:52 PM
Sophie, maybe you can write us a future TMNT sequence which answers the question: who is the last Turtle standing? :D

We already know Don is the last Turtle from the Tales V1 treasury story. We see him die too, basically.

Utrommaniac
07-09-2017, 07:55 PM
Come to think of it, Donatello usually is the last one standing.

He survived the final battle in Same as It Never Was and he was the last surviving turtle in IDW's alternate future (because he wussed out).

Sophie Campbell
07-09-2017, 08:02 PM
I guess we have different sample groups! Haha. I'm doing a poll on Twitter right now and it's Donatello in the lead at 34%, Raph at 27%, Mikey at 21%, and Leo at 18%, currenly based on 513 votes (the poll is up for another 2 days). It's about the same results I got several years ago, too. But it's interesting your poll is almost the reverse of mine, different demographics I guess!

Anyway I'm totally derailing the thread here. Carry on!! ;)

Powder
07-09-2017, 08:07 PM
Playmates went on record saying Donatello has always been the least selling turtle, with Leonardo being the best selling turtle. It's funny how these stats differ with varying groups & contexts.

Utrommaniac
07-09-2017, 08:09 PM
The turtlepedia poll shows Leonardo barely in the lead ahead of Raphael, then Michelangelo and Donatello.

But, I guess we're judging by adults in 2017, rather than toy buyers and kids in 2017 and adults in 2012.

Donatello is my favorite, personally.

The Happy One
07-10-2017, 07:35 AM
Most kids favor Leonardo or Mikey (weapon choice idk??) So more Mikey toys sell, so do Leo toys because he's the leader and has 'the cool swords'. But I think when you ask the teenage/adult fandom, quite a few do lean more Raph or Donnie, especially Donnie. For me, Don is my favorite (though I think he could have been written better in the 2k12 show). :D

plastroncafe
07-10-2017, 07:49 AM
I'm of the mind that this has less to do with Don's relative popularity, and more to do with the fact that writers have a hard time figuring out what to do with him. So they just kind of spitball ideas to see what sticks.

Kind of the same thing that happens to April more often than not.

I know that in my own writing, Don's the hardest "voice" for me to find.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
07-10-2017, 09:36 AM
I'm of the mind that this has less to do with Don's relative popularity, and more to do with the fact that writers have a hard time figuring out what to do with him. So they just kind of spitball ideas to see what sticks.

Kind of the same thing that happens to April more often than not.

I know that in my own writing, Don's the hardest "voice" for me to find.

Playmates went on record saying Donatello has always been the least selling turtle, with Leonardo being the best selling turtle. It's funny how these stats differ with varying groups & contexts.

I've always assumed Don selling the least toys was directly related to the fact that his weapon is a stick. No blades, no stabby pointy things, no cool nunchucks... just a stick. I don't remember being that impressed with the bo staff as a five-year-old. :tlol:

plastroncafe
07-10-2017, 09:47 AM
I've always assumed Don selling the least toys was directly related to the fact that his weapon is a stick. No blades, no stabby pointy things, no cool nunchucks... just a stick. I don't remember being that impressed with the bo staff as a five-year-old. :tlol:

Which is extra amusing given that his weapon is the easiest to come by. I mean, who doesn't own a broom?

Utrommaniac
07-10-2017, 10:15 AM
The best part about the whole "his weapon is a stick!" thing, is growing up to learn just how deadly bo staffs are.

Candy Kappa
07-10-2017, 10:26 AM
Yeah, "just a stick" is arguably the deadliest weapon of the four.

Utrommaniac
07-10-2017, 10:41 AM
And adding Donatello's scientific thinking, combining various maths with anatomy, it gets even deadlier. He'd eventually have the right amount of force at the right trajectory in just the right place of a body without even thinking about it, but at first, you betcha he was.

DonatelloFan1984
07-10-2017, 06:11 PM
I am kinda biased on who is the best turtle. /shrug

Mongoose Mike
07-12-2017, 03:46 PM
Donatello tends to be written with a lot of qualities that make violence toward him most tragic. He is often written with sensitivity that rivals Michelangelo and passion that rivals Raphael.

Also, classic writer's trick for killing a character to up the stakes: kill off the most likeable character who isn't necessary for the plot's resolution. This doesn't exactly translate to Don, but I think it points to Don's popularity rather than unpopularity as a reason for violence against him.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
07-13-2017, 09:18 AM
Don't forget Archie's future Donatello.

pferreira
07-13-2017, 09:49 AM
Playmates went on record saying Donatello has always been the least selling turtle, with Leonardo being the best selling turtle. It's funny how these stats differ with varying groups & contexts.The irony is that out of the four TMNT figures I bought as a kid Don is the only one out of the three still with his weapons and in good shape. :D

Donnie
07-13-2017, 09:13 PM
Don't forget Archie's future Donatello.

Right on. I forgot to mention that in my original post. That Archie future arc with Donatello and Raphael was my favorite growing up. I'm just not sure how much Archie is considered "canon." I guess that's subjective.

Donatello tends to be written with a lot of qualities that make violence toward him most tragic. He is often written with sensitivity that rivals Michelangelo and passion that rivals Raphael.]

That's one astute observation my friend. Very true, often Donnie is written in this way.

Candy Kappa
07-14-2017, 02:41 AM
The irony is that out of the four TMNT figures I bought as a kid Don is the only one out of the three still with his weapons and in good shape. :D

huh, that's pretty neat. I still got one of Mikey's chucks, I don't know how it survived my childhood since no other signature weapon I had did, and the 'chucks where flimsy.

Andrew NDB
07-14-2017, 10:53 AM
Right on. I forgot to mention that in my original post. That Archie future arc with Donatello and Raphael was my favorite growing up. I'm just not sure how much Archie is considered "canon." I guess that's subjective.

What do you mean? All of Archie is canon to Archie.

Donnie
07-14-2017, 11:13 AM
What do you mean? All of Archie is canon to Archie.

I mean, Mirage is more often than not considered TMNT canon. So how does Archie fit into that? Is it a canon all on its own? Seems like a subjective issue to me.

Candy Kappa
07-14-2017, 12:00 PM
Archie fits into Archie, it's its own universe....

Powder
07-14-2017, 03:15 PM
I mean, Mirage is more often than not considered TMNT canon. So how does Archie fit into that? Is it a canon all on its own? Seems like a subjective issue to me.

The hell are you talking about? :tmad:

myconius
07-14-2017, 03:32 PM
I mean, Mirage is more often than not considered TMNT canon. So how does Archie fit into that? Is it a canon all on its own? Seems like a subjective issue to me.

the events within the Mirage Tmnt Comics and the Archie Tmnt have no ties to one another at all.

each series is it's own continuity.


just think the '1966 Adam West Batman TV series' versus the '1989 Michael Keaton Batman movie'

sure they are both Batman, but they are completely different versions of the same characters.

Donnie
07-14-2017, 04:30 PM
The hell are you talking about? :tmad:

:roll: Nice seeing you too, Powder.

the events within the Mirage Tmnt Comics and the Archie Tmnt have no ties to one another at all.

each series is it's own continuity.


just think the '1966 Adam West Batman TV series' versus the '1989 Michael Keaton Batman movie'

sure they are both Batman, but they are completely different versions of the same characters.

See, this is a polite and helpful comment. Thanks.

Good thing I didn't include Archie in my original post, I could just imagine the discontent it may have produced. Geez guys.

So Archie is a universe onto itself, and not related to Mirage continuity whatsoever. So Future Don in Archie is 100% not relevant to Donatello's future in Mirage. Cool. Although, if that's the case, then why is IMAGE usually considered Volume 3 of Mirage? Not really fair, and so, TMNT canon is truly subjective. Moving on.

Candy Kappa
07-14-2017, 04:42 PM
Although, if that's the case, then why is IMAGE usually considered Volume 3 of Mirage? Not really fair, and so, TMNT canon is truly subjective. Moving on.

Because, when Image started writing and publishing TMNT comics, it was a continuation of the Mirage continuity, hence why it's called Volume 3 and Mirage's 2001 continuation of the comic is called Volume 4.

It looks like you don't quite get what "canon" is, so here's the wiki link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)

To put it in other comparisons. Mirage is like Marvel's 616 universe, while IDW's comic is like Marvel's Ultimate Universe. Same character but different universes. Like, the 1990 movie is not in canon/continuity with Mirage comics. It's also like DC's Earth 1 and Earth 2.

myconius
07-14-2017, 06:34 PM
So Archie is a universe onto itself, and not related to Mirage continuity whatsoever. So Future Don in Archie is 100% not relevant to Donatello's future in Mirage. Cool. Although, if that's the case, then why is IMAGE usually considered Volume 3 of Mirage? Not really fair, and so, TMNT canon is truly subjective. Moving on.

you're welcome.

when Mirage Vol. 2 (1993-1995) concluded, the Image Comics run of Tmnt was for all intents and purposes was a continuation of the Mirage series. (hence the vol. 3 titling)

long after the Image run ended, Peter Laird decided to start up Mirage Tmnt comics again.
he opted to wipe the slate clean and write-off the Image run as non-canon.

Candy Kappa
07-15-2017, 02:26 AM
While peter view Vol3 as non-canon with some Vol1 issues as well, he still made a long time period jump where Vol4 starts and as far as I know there's not much that contradicts the events and stories Vol3, it's just not referenced in Vol4.

Donnie
07-16-2017, 09:28 AM
It looks like you don't quite get what "canon" is, so here's the wiki link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)


I'm not sure if you are trying to be insulting or helpful by providing me a link to an unreliable source, but I am well aware of what canon is. :)

TMNT canon is clearly not as clear-cut as most people here would like to believe. I understand that Archie TMNT is Archie TMNT canon. But, Mirage TMNT continuity is not so easily defined. The reason is, as was stated, you have 1/2 of the creators of the TMNT -- Peter Laird -- denying that Image is canon. If PL denies that it's canon, that means that Mirage TMNT canon is subjective. It is up to the individual viewer, or in this case, creator, to decide what he deems official Mirage TMNT canon. Just because he doesn't contradict the events of Image in V4 does not mean he intended it to have happened. Now, if you want to say "okay, it's PL, so for him there is an exception. No exceptions for non-creators. Image is Mirage TMNT canon," then, that's fine. To each his/her own. Look, I'm derailing my own thread at this point, so I will refrain from commenting on this issue further.

As far as Donatello being the last Turtle standing - I know we get glimpses of it throughout Mirage. But, do you guys think the writers of TMNT will ever create an alternate timeline that specifically deviates from the future as painted by Mirage? Kind of like X-Men did in the new movies, erased everything that happened previously by changing the course of history. I wonder if TMNT will ever be given this sort of treatment. With characters like Fugitoid, it isn't out of the realm of possibilities. And if it's been done already in IDW, I apologize, I am quite behind on the current series.
Edit: I am specifically asking about the future which leaves Donatello the last one standing, I know that Renet has taken the TMNT on their fair share of time traveling adventures.