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View Full Version : TMNT II Secret of the Ooze Dedication Controversy


pferreira
07-27-2017, 04:16 PM
I know that when TMNT II was released that it came with a dedication for Jim Henson who had recently passed away. But his family apparently weren't happy as they didn't want a franchise that had got a reputation amongst parental groups for being violent to be associated with Henson's name:

http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles_II:_The_Secret_of_the _Ooze

What do you guys think? Were they right to complain? Do you think Henson's family overreacted? TMNT II isn't a great film by any means but it's not that bad and even if you dislike the film the fact that the production team bothered to put a dedication at the start of the film is commendable for two reasons. Firstly it's showing respect for someone who they had high admiration for, secondly we have to remember that this isn't a Jim Henson movie, Henson's company only worked on these films therefore the fact the TMNT production team made that effort is pretty nice of them.

Powder
07-27-2017, 04:51 PM
It's not really our place to say.

pferreira
07-27-2017, 05:36 PM
It's not really our place to say.I get what you mean. It's a difficult thing to talk about and a difficult position for the production team to be in. You can certainly make arguments for the dedication and not.

FredWolfLeonardo
07-27-2017, 05:39 PM
Looking at it from 2017, it doesn't seem like much but back then when violent cartoons (which are not violent by today's standards) were heavily frowned upon, so I imagine the family didn't want late Jim Henson's reputation to be ruined by having his name attached to tmnt.

Although to be fair, even if I did think violent cartoons were bad, tmnt 2 was heavily toned down from the first where it got criticism for having too much slapstick and the turtles not using their weapons.

MikeandRaph87
07-27-2017, 07:05 PM
I was unaware there was a controversy. I do not see what the problem is giving thanks for the costume production. Besides, I thought the weapons limitation was to cater to parents. Having done that what is there to be upset about? :tconfuse:

tmntgeoff
07-27-2017, 09:46 PM
I went to the Seattle mopop museum which had the Henson exhibit and there wasn't 1 thing about the turtles. I wondered why since at the time it was there most technically advanced puppets, but that would probably explain why there was nothing there. Makes me wonder why they even did the suits for the 2nd movie if they were so displeased with the turtles.

The only reason he agreed to do them in the first place was because of Steve Barron and he wasnt even the director for soto

Powder
07-27-2017, 09:48 PM
I could be mistaken but I think his son was already taking over at that point, & he was quite fond of the property AFAIK.

Logan
07-30-2017, 06:39 PM
If Henson didn't want to be associated with it, the Henson Creature Shop should never have worked on it. Seems simple enough to me.

Might explain why the Shop didn't do effects for III, though.

Shark_Blade
07-30-2017, 07:09 PM
No weapons cheesy fight, terrible story/script, pointless Keno, ... No wonder this film is worse than TMNT 3 for me.

At least Turtles in Time is watchable despite the downgraded costume.

Zachatello00
08-01-2017, 08:33 AM
There's a part of me that hears this and kinda wants to do the ol' eyeroll (:trolleye:).
There's another part of me that has learned that when people are in grief mode, let them do what they need to do to grieve. So, I guess I agree with Powder. It's really not our place to say.

ABrown
08-02-2017, 11:52 AM
Sounds to me like maybe his family should learn to take a compliment.

d_osborn
08-03-2017, 10:04 AM
Yeah, seems a bit harsh considering Brian Henson was second unit director on the first film and the family company produced the creature fx for SOTO. Perhaps People magazine was being a bit sensationalist? Who knows...

I've always read Henson wasn't used for 3 due to budgetary reasons. I might can confirm this... will have to dig.

eskater
08-03-2017, 10:10 AM
I went to the Seattle mopop museum which had the Henson exhibit and there wasn't 1 thing about the turtles. I wondered why since at the time it was there most technically advanced puppets, but that would probably explain why there was nothing there. Makes me wonder why they even did the suits for the 2nd movie if they were so displeased with the turtles.

The only reason he agreed to do them in the first place was because of Steve Barron and he wasnt even the director for soto

That's kind of a bummer honestly...not going to lie I'm a little miffed they didn't put the Turtles in the exhibit (that I just found out about)

pferreira
08-03-2017, 10:32 AM
I do find it ironic that in retrospect since 1991 there have been a lot more violent films for teens and kids. TMNT II is today seen as pretty much harmless a movie. It is possible that at the time due to the nature of the TMNT property Henson's family were embarrassed to have the TMNT name associated with his last project. Kind of like how critics or viewers don't want a respected actor's last film to be a Michael Bay Transformers movie or something like that.

Dammit I'm sure Farscape is the key to all of this:

https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/farscape/images/1/19/Rygel9.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070118130659

:D

eskater
08-07-2017, 08:43 AM
I do find it ironic that in retrospect since 1991 there have been a lot more violent films for teens and kids. TMNT II is today seen as pretty much harmless a movie. It is possible that at the time due to the nature of the TMNT property Henson's family were embarrassed to have the TMNT name associated with his last project. Kind of like how critics or viewers don't want a respected actor's last film to be a Michael Bay Transformers movie or something like that.

But it's been so many years why wouldn't they just include it in a gallery/show showcasing Henson's work.
Michael Bay is honestly....something else entirely.

pferreira
08-10-2017, 09:44 AM
But it's been so many years why wouldn't they just include it in a gallery/show showcasing Henson's work.
Michael Bay is honestly....something else entirely.Any appreciated artist or actor wants to go out on a high note. I think Henson's family were worried that Henson's legacy would be partly seen as TMNT.

eskater
08-10-2017, 10:17 AM
Any appreciated artist or actor wants to go out on a high note. I think Henson's family were worried that Henson's legacy would be partly seen as TMNT.

I get that...but still though. Now everytime I see Sesame Street or the Muppets with my niece I can only think of how he didn't want the TMNT associated with his name lol. I mean even if people bring up that Henson worked on the original puppets for the movies to lay people it doesn't really phase them....

pferreira
08-17-2017, 04:02 PM
I mean even if people bring up that Henson worked on the original puppets for the movies to lay people it doesn't really phase them....I suppose not now. Lots of more crazy franchises have come out since then.

***First of Two Latin Kings***
10-28-2017, 04:46 PM
If the parents then had known what the world would look like now, they wouldn't have wasted their time complaining.

Seems ridiculous to protest the dedication when his shop did in fact design the costumes.

eskater
10-30-2017, 08:49 AM
If the parents then had known what the world would look like now, they wouldn't have wasted their time complaining.

Seems ridiculous to protest the dedication when his shop did in fact design the costumes.

REALLY ridiculous honestly

Sabacooza
10-30-2017, 09:14 AM
It's their right to do what they want but yes I think it is ridiculous. Honestly, how violent was the first movie? It wasn't too violent and the 2nd movie was even less violent. It all just comes down to them being a bunch of pansies. They probably think farting in public is violent.

pferreira
11-02-2017, 10:34 AM
If the parents then had known what the world would look like now, they wouldn't have wasted their time complaining.Yes I very much agree. What passes as family entertainment today makes the first TMNT movie look conservative in comparison. :o

TMNachoT
11-04-2017, 03:16 PM
Now that you're talking about soto, was there a post with an interview to the director of this film? I'd like to get info about if Krang was originally in the script. Cheers!

pferreira
11-09-2017, 09:30 AM
Now that you're talking about soto, was there a post with an interview to the director of this film? I'd like to get info about if Krang was originally in the script. Cheers!I only found this interview from a couple of years ago:

http://www.tmntautographs.com/interviewpressman.html

TMNachoT
11-09-2017, 07:57 PM
I only found this interview from a couple of years ago:

http://www.tmntautographs.com/interviewpressman.html

Cheers!!!!

pferreira
11-16-2017, 09:30 AM
Cheers!!!!Apologies it's not more in depth to answer your questions but I thought you might like to read it. Glad you like it. :)

TMNTChris1980
11-17-2017, 03:48 PM
"according to a source close to them". So they didn't actually say it, and People is a tabloid, so maybe they were trying to sell more magazines using the TMNT name.

pferreira
11-23-2017, 09:21 AM
"according to a source close to them". So they didn't actually say it, and People is a tabloid, so maybe they were trying to sell more magazines using the TMNT name.It's certainly possible tabloids were hopping on the parental bandwagon hate towards TMNT.

sgtfbomb
11-23-2017, 09:48 AM
Let's be rational about this. Jim Henson didn't say this. Someone else did. Here-say isn't reliable and can be exaggerated. You probably see this happen every day at work. Sometimes there's only a little bit of negative and people make it into a lot. Besides, for all we know there was just one time he nonchalantly said, "Well, it might be a little violent, but I think it'll be good." More importantly, he didn't publicly criticize the film. I see no rational reason to stop watching The Muppets, Labyrinth, or Dark Crystal because of this.

pferreira
11-30-2017, 10:16 AM
Let's be rational about this. Jim Henson didn't say this. Someone else did. Here-say isn't reliable and can be exaggerated. You probably see this happen every day at work. Sometimes there's only a little bit of negative and people make it into a lot. Besides, for all we know there was just one time he nonchalantly said, "Well, it might be a little violent, but I think it'll be good." More importantly, he didn't publicly criticize the film. I see no rational reason to stop watching The Muppets, Labyrinth, or Dark Crystal because of this.Yeah as I said it was the tabloids probably.