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TurtleWA
08-07-2017, 07:21 PM
Going forward will all TMNT movies be CGI? What are the options?

TigerClaw
08-07-2017, 07:24 PM
Going forward will all TMNT movies be CGI? What are the options?
Yeah, I think TMNT movies going forward will be done in CGI, the rubber suits don't cut it any more due to limited mobility.

Andrew NDB
08-07-2017, 07:25 PM
Yeah, I think TMNT movies going forward will be done in CGI, the rubber suits don't cut it any more due to limited mobility.

If they're like the last couple, why would it even matter? They're not doing ninjitsu or even fighting.

TigerClaw
08-07-2017, 07:28 PM
If they're like the last couple, why would it even matter? They're not doing ninjitsu or even fighting.
The new TMNT movies need a director who can shoot martial arts, and they need a good fight choreographer.

Powder
08-07-2017, 07:45 PM
The new TMNT movies need a director who can shoot martial arts, and they need a good fight choreographer.

I've seen Twitter bots that create more fitting responses.

GoldMutant
08-07-2017, 07:50 PM
I really wish that if live-action, it could be practical effects primarily for the Turtles and slight CGI if needed. Seriously, the over usage of CGI cheapens film to me. It may be easier to shoot and may even be gorgeous to look at, but if too obvious, it gets irritating.

It's wishful thinking, but I wish that in terms of fighting, we could get something akin to Spider-Man 2 or 3. Blend CGI with practical effects, allow the costumes to be light so we can get great fighting. Alas, unless there's a team that can properly handle it, CGI will dominate.

TurtleWA
08-07-2017, 07:57 PM
So it's basically CGI, suits, or an animated feature film? I don't think a clay or stop motion or anything is a realistic option. So I'm guessing it is always going to be CGI.

TigerClaw
08-07-2017, 08:04 PM
So it's basically CGI, suits, or an animated feature film? I don't think a clay or stop motion or anything is a realistic option. So I'm guessing it is always going to be CGI.
Yep, its always gonna be CGI if people like it or not, CGI is easier to create, plus allowing the characters to be more expressive.

TurtleWA
08-07-2017, 08:15 PM
Yep, its always gonna be CGI if people like it or not, CGI is easier to create, plus allowing the characters to be more expressive.

Yeah I suppose that is correct.

I just hope the CGI in the future films is done really well so I forget it's even CGI. With the most recent TMNT the CGI is more obvious than I preferred. Something like Planet of the Apes or Gollum from LOTR, I think those are all CGI and look pretty nice.

GoldMutant
08-07-2017, 08:15 PM
Yep, its always gonna be CGI if people like it or not, CGI is easier to create, plus allowing the characters to be more expressive.

Which is why the Henson era costumes weren't expressive enough, right? (Correct me if I'm wrong here though.)

If I recall, some films have used practical effects and were expressive. The Orcs in Lord of the Rings (not Hobbit) were practical. Jurassic Park's dinosaurs are another.

I'm not disowning CGI, as the likes of Gollum in LOTR look amazing. However, outside possibly being easier to work with on a budget, it gets annoying to always see it. If it looks too obvious, I'm not going to care as a viewer.

IndigoErth
08-07-2017, 08:18 PM
Although being more expressive will require that mocap also be a part of it. Not going to get nearly the same degree if it's just CGI animated by hand.

I do like that the PD films were able to show even just the slightest change in expression. Down to even just the look in the eyes... That part was nice and would miss it a bit in live action sans mocap.

Which is why the Henson era costumes weren't expressive enough, right? (Correct me if I'm wrong here though.)
Well, you can also only rig a costume for it just so much.

Galactus
08-07-2017, 09:05 PM
I doubt the franchise would go back to cgi animated even though I think when all is said and done the Imagi movie probably made a better profit especially with the toy sales but it would just be too confusing for the audience to have the franchise bounce back and forth between cartoons and live action.

Maybe in a hypothetical future where TMNT is revived in a highly successful live action series you could have an animated spin off like the Lego Batman movie or the upcoming Spider-Man animated feature but for right now live action is the only way to go.

As for how the turtles would be brought to life, surely the only option left would be to use men in costumes with cgi to animate the faces, correct for where the suits look rubbery and assist with stunts etc.

Going the full capture route seemed so expensive that giving the turtles decent screen time was a problem in the 2014 movie and you can tell they cut some corners in the sequel. Given how badly Out of The Shadows performed I doubt any studio is going to give a TMNT movie the kind of money to go the fully motion captured rout again...not unless someone in a position of power really sells a TMNT revival as a something worth that investment.

Besides the very reason to go that route was basically shot down in flames by the actual movies. I mean we got the facial recognition aspect justified that for the first time we could see an actors real performance and depth of emotion except neither of the two movies really had much in the way of the turtles showing the kind of emotion you would think could only be portrayed by actual actors. Looking at behind the scenes footage the actors did what looked like deliberate cartoon-like performance which doesn't look as if it was meant to convey realistic portrayals. Most of the reviews for both movies contained some praise for the four turtle actors but not a single one ever said that it made the turtles seem more real than the Henson movies.

The whole motion capture with facial recognition seemed to be done (at least from Platinum Dunes end) for bragging rights of how great and cutting edge the movie would be. I don't think they put much thought into whether it was a good fit for the franchise or whether they could pull it off.

Although being more expressive will require that mocap also be a part of it. Not going to get nearly the same degree if it's just CGI animated by hand.

I would argue otherwise. From interviews we know in making the first movie Platinum Dunes insistence on using the very latest software which is often buggy resulted in a lot of times the facial recognition technology failed to capture the actors faces so ILM had animate from scratch.

Besides isn't the mo cap technology not really simply recording an actors movements and transposing them onto a cgi character but rather giving the animators a very detailed reference material to work with in animating the characters. Not really that different to when an illustrator uses a book of anatomy as a reference to what a human actually looks like in certain poses as opposed to imagining it.

FredWolfLeonardo
08-07-2017, 09:10 PM
I don't mind CGI too much but will always prefer the Jim Henson suits, even tmnt 3's suits weren't THAT bad.

For the next movie, I wish the movie goes fully CG animated like tmnt 2007 rather than CG turtles in a live action world.

DestronMirage22
08-07-2017, 10:30 PM
I'd much prefer practical effects with minimal to no digital editing. The CGI used in the PD films was terrible. It looked like some video game cutscene half the time.

IndigoErth
08-07-2017, 11:13 PM
I would argue otherwise. From interviews we know in making the first movie Platinum Dunes insistence on using the very latest software which is often buggy resulted in a lot of times the facial recognition technology failed to capture the actors faces so ILM had animate from scratch.

Besides isn't the mo cap technology not really simply recording an actors movements and transposing them onto a cgi character but rather giving the animators a very detailed reference material to work with in animating the characters. Not really that different to when an illustrator uses a book of anatomy as a reference to what a human actually looks like in certain poses as opposed to imagining it.
Well, fair enough in that kind of case as they'd have to fix what needs fixing and do it precisely enough to make it blend in.

That said though, the models are already rigged for that level of realistic movement to begin with (all those facial muscles, etc), making it a bit easier. (Actually, the mocap use does give you data to import and link up to the models. Else there really isn't much point in the suits used for it in films.) Although doing it from scratch, sans mocap, it may well still look a little out of place without that data to work with. Some people have gotten very good, but generally still not quite real feeling if all done by hand. (Then there is the question if a maker of it even wants to put in the time it would require trying to get entirely lifelike movement all by hand. That's going to become super expensive real quick.)

Wildcat
08-07-2017, 11:23 PM
I don't care as long as it's good cgi. Like Planet of the Apes quality.

I have not seen the movies but just seeing the trailers amazes me. That cgi is just fantastic. If the turtles could look like that no need for costumes.

neatoman
08-08-2017, 04:26 AM
Do the bears crap in the woods? Of course all future TMNT movies will use CGI to some extent, the sole exceptions would be a 2D animated movie. The chances of reverting back to suits and animatronics are rather low and I don't see something like an entirely stop motion movie faring any better.

Although, that last line kind of makes me want a Henry Selick TMNT movie...

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
08-08-2017, 10:27 AM
I don't think we should worry too much, because in the future the designs will not be inspried by the "Blue Door" script.

TurtleWA
08-08-2017, 11:18 AM
Although, that last line kind of makes me want a Henry Selick TMNT movie...

I'm sure your thinking more of a noncrossover movie. But Mikey and Jack Skellington team-up and stops thieves from stealing a bunch of kids toys comes to mind.

RaphaelinSTL
08-08-2017, 02:52 PM
I don't think we should worry too much, because in the future the designs will not be inspried by the "Blue Door" script.

Good lord was that script ****ing terrible.

The-Shredder
08-08-2017, 10:34 PM
Someone did an amazing render of 1990 Donatello in Unreal Engine 4 and it almost looks like it came straight from the film. https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?131154-1990-Donatello

https://forums.unrealengine.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121170&d=1481487146

FredWolfLeonardo
08-08-2017, 10:44 PM
Someone did an amazing render of 1990 Donatello in Unreal Engine 4 and it almost looks like it came straight from the film. https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?131154-1990-Donatello

https://forums.unrealengine.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121170&d=1481487146

Kudos to the creator, that CGI is outstanding.

Andrew NDB
08-08-2017, 10:53 PM
Whoa... that's pretty spot on.

Optimus Primer
08-08-2017, 11:25 PM
Someone did an amazing render of 1990 Donatello in Unreal Engine 4 and it almost looks like it came straight from the film. https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?131154-1990-Donatello

https://forums.unrealengine.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=121170&d=1481487146

That's insane. :tthumbsu: to the creator!

pferreira
08-10-2017, 08:31 AM
Someone did an amazing render of 1990 Donatello in Unreal Engine 4 and it almost looks like it came straight from the film.Nice in stills but the real accomplishment is seeing it work well in motion and not end up creepy like CGI Leia or Tarkin in Rogue One.

It would be great if new TMNT films used the animatronic costumes but I can't see that happen since the lazy way of doing it is through CGI. Until CGI gets to a good level the animatronic costumes will always look more real.

miru
09-18-2017, 05:05 PM
I think we could easily go back to 100% CGI, like in the 2007 film, so effects would become easier.

Chris
09-24-2017, 04:43 PM
Gotta say, I wouldn't be against going the all animated route but I can't see them doing it as Western audiences tend to view animated movies as for kids and that could be perceived by the studio as reducing the film's box office potential.

Really the 3 things they need to get right are characters, story and tone. If they can do that then it should be a good movie regardless of the medium.

d_osborn
09-24-2017, 08:54 PM
The rumor before the Nick buyout was that it was going to be practical suits with CGI enhancements for the faces. I would totally be down for this.

sgtfbomb
09-25-2017, 09:00 AM
The rumor before the Nick buyout was that it was going to be practical suits with CGI enhancements for the faces. I would totally be down for this.

I remember that rumor. I believe that was when Legendary Pictures was going to do it with Warner Bros. If I recall correctly, John Logan, who wrote The Last Samurai and Gladiator, was at one point hired for the screenplay or had turned in a draft. Granted, that doesn't usually mean a lot since, more times than not, the writer has very little control over the final result (but often get the blame, sometimes over the people who should).

I am curious. The whole thing was canned before it got anywhere, but I'd like to know what their concept was for the story.

PizzaPower1985
10-16-2017, 12:46 PM
As much as I love the Golden Harvest era, I think puppets are pretty much dead in Hollywood. As far as CGI TMNT... all future movies in my opinion should be live action with fully CGI turtles. MoCap is okay I guess but I would prefer full renderings in a computer. Turtles that actually resemble the Eastman/Laird drawings. About 5" each in height with a 4" Splinter.

There was a time however when I advocated 2D animated turtles in live action ala Roger Rabbit but that was back in the 90s when I was young, dumb and full of it! So yeah!

Xav
10-16-2017, 04:51 PM
I remember that rumor. I believe that was when Legendary Pictures was going to do it with Warner Bros. If I recall correctly, John Logan, who wrote The Last Samurai and Gladiator, was at one point hired for the screenplay or had turned in a draft. Granted, that doesn't usually mean a lot since, more times than not, the writer has very little control over the final result (but often get the blame, sometimes over the people who should).

I am curious. The whole thing was canned before it got anywhere, but I'd like to know what their concept was for the story.Actually it was John Fusco. According to Laird it would've been a loose sequel to the original film ignoring the others and exploring parts of the turtles origin that haven't been seen on film before.

Sabacooza
10-16-2017, 05:21 PM
Actually it was John Fusco. According to Laird it would've been a loose sequel to the original film ignoring the others and exploring parts of the turtles origin that haven't been seen on film before.That would've been interesting.

Panda_Kahn_fan
10-16-2017, 05:41 PM
I think they should go back to costume, but have totally CGI faces. The turtles could be on seen for most of their own movie, and not blow the budget through the roof. :lol:

Powder
10-16-2017, 05:42 PM
I still can't get over how good that Henson Donnie render looks. Oh how wonderful things could be in the right hands...

Panda_Kahn_fan
10-16-2017, 05:53 PM
I still can't get over how good that Henson Donnie render looks. Oh how wonderful things could be in the right hands...

It looks amazing, but how high would the price tag be for a full movie with four turtles CGI on screen all the time?