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View Full Version : The Utrom Council and Guardians and Shredder's "death".


Danetello
08-12-2017, 07:38 AM
So, I have been introducing my husband to the 2003 TMNT series properly for the first time, with a complete rewatch from the start. This week we ploughed through season 1, and it occurred to me that the Guardians and the Utrom council were pretty stupid when Leo beheaded Shredder. From afar the Guardian sees the Shredder fall, and then immediately calls the Utrom council to inform them that Shredder is dead, and they believe him. While at this point obviously we aren't supposed to know Shredder is an Utom, and thus plot secrecy is important, in retrospect it was a pretty stupid move to assume that since he was beheaded that he was dead - the Guardian and all three of the council members should have known he was an Utrom in an exosuit.

Just my thoughts.

Utrommaniac
08-12-2017, 10:12 AM
Yeah, I don't think they're the brightest Utroms overall :lol: (and honestly the most boring for me at least). Even Ch'rell. Mortu was plastered on an old newspaper as head of TCRI, using his own name! He's right there under your nose dude, just...read the paper!

ABrown
08-12-2017, 07:30 PM
Yes, yes, yes, and double yes. It's really odd that for how important continuity was in the series, the creators made such a large number of discrepancies during the first two seasons with Shredder being an utrom. I find it best not to think too much about Shredder actually being an utrom underneath, and enjoy him for being my personal favorite version of the character.

***First of Two Latin Kings***
08-13-2017, 06:44 AM
Didn't he hold the sword of Tengu with no glove in Darkness on the Edge of Town?

ToTheNines
08-13-2017, 07:26 AM
@Danetello
Definitely the biggest plot hole of the show. We've discussed it several times here, years ago. I forget what my personal headcanon was.

A couple of possible no-prizes:

- Perhaps exo-suits don't function without the head. So the fact that he landed face down, engulfed in flames gave them reason to believe he was burnt to death or suffocated. But he had a backup power supply.

- Perhaps they had reason to believe that the Sword of Tengu was powerful enough to kill an Utrom even if it only struck their exo-suit.

As cunning as Ch'rell was, it was out of character for him to play possum. So you just have to assume the Guardians saw that he didn't get up from that and called it good enough lol. Although, you'd think they would make an effort to retrieve the body so as to not reveal any Utrom presence to whoever found it.

I dunno, I'll do some searches of this section and see if any one has anything better.

ToTheNines
08-13-2017, 02:34 PM
The only other theory I came up with was from an old post of mine.

Maybe the Council didn't want the guardians to know Shredder was an Utrom for whatever reason, so they figured Shredder would lay low for a while after his public decapitation and they could get the transmat up and running before he gave them any more flak.

Danetello
08-13-2017, 03:52 PM
A couple of possible no-prizes:

- Perhaps exo-suits don't function without the head. So the fact that he landed face down, engulfed in flames gave them reason to believe he was burnt to death or suffocated. But he had a backup power supply.

- Perhaps they had reason to believe that the Sword of Tengu was powerful enough to kill an Utrom even if it only struck their exo-suit.

As cunning as Ch'rell was, it was out of character for him to play possum. So you just have to assume the Guardians saw that he didn't get up from that and called it good enough lol. Although, you'd think they would make an effort to retrieve the body so as to not reveal any Utrom presence to whoever found it.



The only other theory I came up with was from an old post of mine.

Maybe the Council didn't want the guardians to know Shredder was an Utrom for whatever reason, so they figured Shredder would lay low for a while after his public decapitation and they could get the transmat up and running before he gave them any more flak.

I actually like all of the reasoning here! With such a well written series, it's a shame that sometimes there were just such obvious oversights.

ABrown
08-14-2017, 01:30 PM
Didn't he hold the sword of Tengu with no glove in Darkness on the Edge of Town?

So did Master Splinter in Return To New York (part 2).

ToTheNines
08-15-2017, 04:26 PM
I actually like all of the reasoning here! With such a well written series, it's a shame that sometimes there were just such obvious oversights.

Yeah, I think I mostly stick with the last one about the guardians not knowing. The Search for Splinter/Tmnt in space/Secret origin saga took place no more than a couple of weeks after RTNY, so they had to have been extremely close to getting it up and running even if they needed Fugitoid and Don to help get it working.

ABrown
08-16-2017, 12:59 PM
They REALLY should've just gave Shredder Yukio Mashimi's story. He should've been a rogue guardian whose lust for power (as well as Teng Shen) caused him to leave the guardians and either start or join the Foot. He would've still been resurrected by Karai using the worms in season two. At the end of season three he would've been exposed to the world as a crime lord at his big celebration and gone to prison, or finally killed for good. Oh well, like I said in an earlier post, he's still my favorite version of the character.