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View Full Version : What was left unadapted from Mirage?


MikeandRaph87
08-20-2017, 10:40 AM
Throughout the series especially the first four seasons there were many adaptations of Mirage volume one, the short-lived classic Tales vol.1 and a few others. Was there anything of note that was not adapted and if so would it have fit into the 2003 cartoon? I often hear of a mini-series titled Bodycount for example I know is not adapted,but could something that seems gory be adapted or best left alone? Anything with DARPA? There might have been something referencing it within the series,but I missed it. Look forward to reading your thoughts.

ToTheNines
08-20-2017, 10:45 AM
The Turtle Titan episode should have been about Radical and Complete Carnage. Eff Silver Sentry and all the other Justice Force crap.

Definitely would have liked The River and Halls of Lost Legends. And maybe the Gosei Hattori stuff (the pre-#1 story and Masks).

CyberCubed
08-20-2017, 11:52 AM
If you're speaking of the canon stuff that PL would allow, the only major thing I could think of is Michael Dooney's "MASKS" issues #46-47 where the Turtles travel back in time to ancient Japan with Shogun Chote. However I can see why it wasn't used as it would conflict with the backstory of Ch'rell taking over the Foot Clan in the 2k3 universe.

A few other one off stuff wasn't adapted like Gosei Hattori's entire character and stories, and of course they couldn't do any of Vol. 4 as it was just coming out at the same time 2k3 was.

snake
08-20-2017, 12:33 PM
The River is something I think could work pretty well but I understand the copyright issues regarding the story. Bloodsucker is extremely toyetic too.

mrmaczaps
08-20-2017, 12:50 PM
Was the Shades of Grey, two part Casey Jones story adapted? Cuz I always enjoyed that... and never really seen much/any of the 2k3 series.

MikeandRaph87
08-20-2017, 01:21 PM
I see multiple mentions of Gosei Hattori. What was that about?

Andrew NDB
08-20-2017, 02:06 PM
As far as I'm concerned... everything.*

*: except the Kirby and "I, Monster" episodes, maybe.

Andrew NDB
08-20-2017, 02:08 PM
Was the Shades of Grey, two part Casey Jones story adapted?

How would that even work? Would Casey bruise a kid too hard, then feel real bad about it and go and drink a bunch of Red Bull?

MikeandRaph87
08-20-2017, 02:20 PM
How would that even work? Would Casey bruise a kid too hard, then feel real about it and go and drink a bunch of Red Bull?

Here is an idea, Casey Jones get the drop on someone he thinks is Hun. Only after he beats the guy to the need for hospital care does he realize his mistake. Casey punishes himself by locking himself in his home, like a self-imposed exile and looks wrecked. He sees Hun on the news harming innocents as he is mid-crime. This and perhaps one of them is April which causes Casey Jones to act and during the confrontation does not kill him like his impulses desire, but leaves him for the police. There Hun remained until someone in the Tengu Shredder saga which he escaped. Maybe you agree or disagree, but I think the basics could have been covered while not fully adapted.

ToTheNines
08-20-2017, 02:33 PM
How would that even work? Would Casey bruise a kid too hard, then feel real about it and go and drink a bunch of Red Bull?

Lmao, I was gonna say... they bungled their City At War adaption enough. Just leave Shades Of Grey alone.

Andrew NDB
08-20-2017, 02:37 PM
Lmao, I was gonna say... they bungled their City At War adaption enough. Just leave Shades Of Grey alone.

They torpedoed "Return to New York" pretty spectacularly, too. People get so stuck on "but they really cut off Shredder's head just like in the comics!!!" (they didn't, btw) that they forget that 100% of the rest of the story is bastardized for toddlers and toys.

ToTheNines
08-20-2017, 02:43 PM
I have a soft spot for it, as I was 11 when it aired and thought it was amazing. But it was definitely The Playmates Show.

But City at War, man. They just COMPLETELY missed the point. Started off with some cheesy FAKE pop song. Terrible!

MikeandRaph87
08-20-2017, 03:38 PM
I have a soft spot for it, as I was 11 when it aired and thought it was amazing. But it was definitely The Playmates Show.

But City at War, man. They just COMPLETELY missed the point. Started off with some cheesy FAKE pop song. Terrible!

That is where we are different. I thought it shrunk and streamlined the story-line, made it cleaner, and showed The Shredder rise again. It also gave us a Karai walking the line of good and evil. At the same time for all those reasons you do not like it. It adapted it for non-b&w comics fans like myself and I say did it well.

Powder
08-20-2017, 04:31 PM
Don't blaspheme.

ToTheNines
08-20-2017, 04:57 PM
That is where we are different. I thought it shrunk and streamlined the story-line, made it cleaner, and showed The Shredder rise again. It also gave us a Karai walking the line of good and evil. At the same time for all those reasons you do not like it. It adapted it for non-b&w comics fans like myself and I say did it well.

RONG.

Mirage CaW is printed kino. 4kids CaW is gay.

Andrew NDB
08-20-2017, 04:57 PM
That is where we are different. I thought it shrunk and streamlined the story-line, made it cleaner, and showed The Shredder rise again.

You're missing the point of ToTheNines saying it is missing the point. "City at War" is NOT a story about The Shredder rising again. Not remotely, on any level.

MikeandRaph87
08-20-2017, 05:36 PM
You're missing the point of ToTheNines saying it is missing the point. "City at War" is NOT a story about The Shredder rising again. Not remotely, on any level.

It is about the power vacuum left in his absence. Without him or perhaps The Foot itself at the top of the underworld there will be countless factions vying for the top. No one else will be capable so fixing the Shredder-less Foot at the top stabilizes the criminal underworld.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
08-20-2017, 06:00 PM
As much as I love 4Kids TMNT, "City at War" had as much to do with the original as "City Fall" in IDW... nothing.

"City at War" is not a story for kids, kiddies, or cartoons. If you water it down, you destroy it. Same for "Shades of Gray" or "Sons of the Silent Age."

Some Mirage stuff is good and can be reinterpreted rather loosely. Not those stories.

CyberCubed
08-20-2017, 06:16 PM
This thread should be locked. The cartoon was never going to be a 1:1 adaption of the comic storylines and anyone with common sense would know that.

ToTheNines
08-20-2017, 07:34 PM
It is about the power vacuum left in his absence. Without him or perhaps The Foot itself at the top of the underworld there will be countless factions vying for the top. No one else will be capable so fixing the Shredder-less Foot at the top stabilizes the criminal underworld.

Still not quite getting it. It's more about the endless cycle of vengeance that's been tearing their family apart since before they were even born. The Foot itself is split into two factions and is tearing the city apart in the crossfire. No "underworld power vacuum".

Obviously anything they tried was going to be censored, and I totally get why they wouldn't touch the Splinter/April/Casey aspects. But even without that, the fact that they made it only a three parter was an insult. Same show made the Utrom/Turtles in Space arc last 10 episodes, Triceraton Invasion was 6, and even dedicated an entire season to that god awful Ninja Tribunal crap.

Now that I think about it, they should have just introduced Karai in an original story in season 2 and done City at War as their big season 5 arc. Coulda been cool and a good way to end the pre-subtitles era.

As much as I love 4Kids TMNT, "City at War" had as much to do with the original as "City Fall" in IDW... nothing.

"City at War" is not a story for kids, kiddies, or cartoons. If you water it down, you destroy it. Same for "Shades of Gray" or "Sons of the Silent Age."

Some Mirage stuff is good and can be reinterpreted rather loosely. Not those stories.

Sons of the Silent Age could have worked. They just didn't have the guts to go through with the real ending.

This thread should be locked. The cartoon was never going to be a 1:1 adaption of the comic storylines and anyone with common sense would know that.

You don't have to be such a piece of sh*t troll all the time, ya know? Every time this dead section stirs debate you have to come in here running your whiny co*ksucker about locking the thread. Just get a life.

MikeandRaph87
08-20-2017, 07:47 PM
As much as I love 4Kids TMNT, "City at War" had as much to do with the original as "City Fall" in IDW... nothing.

"City at War" is not a story for kids, kiddies, or cartoons. If you water it down, you destroy it. Same for "Shades of Gray" or "Sons of the Silent Age."

Some Mirage stuff is good and can be reinterpreted rather loosely. Not those stories.

I enjoyed it and prefer it to the comic it came from. That is what matters.


Cubed, you think everything needs to be locked. Adaptation is just that. Its based on something and being translated within another format. Some are closer to the inspiration others. I prefer the 2003 cartoon takes on the Mirage stories opposed to the comics, because I am an other media centric fan.

I know the super powered turtles and Sliver story-line came from Tales vol.2 did anything else get carried over from the second Tales volume? I know it was running concurrently so it would be limited.

CyberCubed
08-20-2017, 09:28 PM
Nothing much from Tales V. 2 came over, you have to remember Tales started in 2004, by then the 2k3 series had scripts through the end of Season 3 and the beginning of 4 already.

It's easy to forget Vol. 4/Tales were going on the same time as the 2k3 series, and they couldn't very well adapt material that either wasn't out yet or still being written.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
08-20-2017, 09:34 PM
Nothing much from Tales V. 2 came over, you have to remember Tales started in 2004, by then the 2k3 series had scripts through the end of Season 3 and the beginning of 4 already.

It's easy to forget Vol. 4/Tales were going on the same time as the 2k3 series, and they couldn't very well adapt material that either wasn't out yet or still being written.

The Foot Mystics and Battle Nexus came out in both Mirage and 4Kids... I want to say both came out first in 4Kids before Laird took them to Mirage stories, though.

Cryomancer
08-20-2017, 10:06 PM
A big glaring thing is anything whatsoever to do with Shadow

But I guess I can understand why they wouldn't cover any of that

CyberCubed
08-20-2017, 11:30 PM
I think the difference is 2k3 started off with Mirage as a framework but quickly became its own thing. It was never intended to be a Mirage show, just loosely based on its concepts.

DestronMirage22
08-20-2017, 11:37 PM
The guest-era stuff was unadapted (for obvious reasons), along with some of the single issue stories (The Passing, Dreams Of Stone, Distractions, etc.).

As much as I like the 2k3 series, it's adaptations left much to be desired. If they had tried to adapt some of the deeper stories, they most likely would've turned out as bad as their City At War.

Redeemer
08-20-2017, 11:39 PM
They torpedoed "Return to New York" pretty spectacularly, too. People get so stuck on "but they really cut off Shredder's head just like in the comics!!!" (they didn't, btw) that they forget that 100% of the rest of the story is bastardized for toddlers and toys.

Andrew I think you have too much Nostalgia for the Mirage comics.
I read Return to New York and seen the 2k3 episode I actually prefer the 2k3 adaptation over the original Mirage version. As far as City at War I did not enjoy at all that much. When I finally got to read the Mirage City at War I was incredibly disappointed, just a complete let down. I think my expectations was just to high
(bc of you and everyone else on here :P)

My point is I think you gripe too much about the 2k3 series as a whole. It is a kids show, there is no way they could do a faithful adaptation of the source material given it was aimed at a young audience and the network and others would not allow a more graphic depiction. Insane in the Membrane is proof of that. I think they did a pretty good job given the circumstance.(season (1-4))

CyberCubed
08-20-2017, 11:39 PM
If the episodes of City at War had a different name, nobody would have mind. It was never going to adapt the themes and adult storylines of the comic version. They should have done something similar to IDW and called it "Cityfall" to distinguish it and leave expectations aside.

Sumac
08-21-2017, 04:13 AM
They torpedoed "Return to New York" pretty spectacularly, too. People get so stuck on "but they really cut off Shredder's head just like in the comics!!!" (they didn't, btw) that they forget that 100% of the rest of the story is bastardized for toddlers and toys.
Your tears and salt are delicious!:tlol:

RONG.

Mirage CaW is printed kino. 4kids CaW is gay.
It's was not funny, so it was not gay.

LeotheLateBloomer
08-21-2017, 09:13 AM
I think the difference is 2k3 started off with Mirage as a framework but quickly became its own thing. It was never intended to be a Mirage show, just loosely based on its concepts.

Cubed gets it!:tcool:

Andrew I think you have too much Nostalgia for the Mirage comics.
I read Return to New York and seen the 2k3 episode I actually prefer the 2k3 adaptation over the original Mirage version. As far as City at War I did not enjoy at all that much. When I finally got to read the Mirage City at War I was incredibly disappointed, just a complete let down. I think my expectations was just to high
(bc of you and everyone else on here :P)

My point is I think you gripe too much about the 2k3 series as a whole. It is a kids show, there is no way they could do a faithful adaptation of the source material given it was aimed at a young audience and the network and others would not allow a more graphic depiction. Insane in the Membrane is proof of that. I think they did a pretty good job given the circumstance.(season (1-4))

What was it that you didn't like about the original version?

Andrew NDB
08-21-2017, 10:19 AM
I enjoyed it and prefer it to the comic it came from. That is what matters.

OK.

I prefer the 2003 cartoon takes on the Mirage stories opposed to the comics, because I am an other media centric fan.

I'm not sure what this means.

I think the difference is 2k3 started off with Mirage as a framework but quickly became its own thing. It was never intended to be a Mirage show, just loosely based on its concepts.

True. But there are so many people around here that are like, "Mirage... 2k3... SAME THING! LOLZ!"

Dumb. Wrong.

Andrew I think you have too much Nostalgia for the Mirage comics.
I read Return to New York and seen the 2k3 episode I actually prefer the 2k3 adaptation over the original Mirage version.

Well there's no accounting for taste, I suppose.

Your tears and salt are delicious!:tlol:

My point is I think you gripe too much about the 2k3 series as a whole. It is a kids show, there is no way they could do a faithful adaptation of the source material given it was aimed at a young audience and the network

No sh*t. I'm not "griping" about 2k3 any more than I "gripe" about any of the other cartoons... they're not intended for you or I, they're intended for this guy:

http://cdn.skim.gs/image/upload/v1456337920/msi/proud-toddler_yvhmqf.jpg

Which says more about you than it says anything about me.

If the episodes of City at War had a different name, nobody would have mind. It was never going to adapt the themes and adult storylines of the comic version. They should have done something similar to IDW and called it "Cityfall" to distinguish it and leave expectations aside.

Probably right.

Sumac
08-21-2017, 10:29 AM
No sh*t. I'm not "griping" about 2k3 any more than I "gripe" about any of the other cartoons... they're not intended for you or I, they're intended for this guy:
Which says more about you than it says anything about me.
It's funny because the only one who acting like a child when it comes to this discussion is you are.

Also, there is no shame in liking cartoons intended for kids, unless you one of the people who believe that everything should be "deep and serious" 24/7.

But fanboys, fanboys, what you gonna do, what you gonna...:tlol:

neatoman
08-21-2017, 10:35 AM
It's funny because the only one who acting like a child when it comes to this discussion is you are.

Also, there is no shame in liking cartoons intended for kids, unless you one of the people who believe that everything should be "deep and serious" 24/7.

But fanboys, fanboys, what you gonna do, what you gonna...:tlol:

That's not really his point, his point is that it's a fallacy to equate the show with the comics because the basic stories are used, since it's still full of major alterations. How did you miss that?

Redeemer
08-21-2017, 01:16 PM
OK.



I'm not sure what this means.



True. But there are so many people around here that are like, "Mirage... 2k3... SAME THING! LOLZ!"

Dumb. Wrong.



Well there's no accounting for taste, I suppose.





No sh*t. I'm not "griping" about 2k3 any more than I "gripe" about any of the other cartoons... they're not intended for you or I, they're intended for this guy:

http://cdn.skim.gs/image/upload/v1456337920/msi/proud-toddler_yvhmqf.jpg

Which says more about you than it says anything about me.



Probably right.

Andrew I was his age when the cartoon came out :lol: I was 11 or 12?

Redeemer
08-21-2017, 01:23 PM
Cubed gets it!:tcool:



What was it that you didn't like about the original version?

There wasn't enough narrative for me to support the action or the pacing of the story imo.

Sumac
08-21-2017, 09:14 PM
That's not really his point, his point is that it's a fallacy to equate the show with the comics because the basic stories are used, since it's still full of major alterations. How did you miss that?
One thing is good in one way, another - in its own way. No necessity to be so salty about it.

Tetsu Deinonychus
09-09-2017, 11:57 AM
What I wish they adapted, or that some TMNT TV show would adapt is my favourite Mirage issue. Vol.1 issue 11. "True Stories".

Most TMNT shows do the "Exile to Northhampton" arc, but they gloss over the emotional impact. They don't really get into the trauma they went through and the emotional healing afterwards.

To me it's the emotional content (and not the violence) that makes Mirage TMNT more "mature" than other versions. Both the kinda depressing "Life at best is bitter sweet" side and the heartwarming "Life is good, and life goes on" side.

I think both the 4kids and Nick versions (both of which I enjoy) really missed a golden opportunity by not adapting "True Stories" and by not touching on the emotional drama side of TMNT more often (the cop-out ending to "Sons of the Silent Age" being another example).

Anyway, for what it's worth I like 4Kids "Return to NY" I think it has more variety than the Mirage version with the appearance of Foot Mystics and Cyborg Baxter (I loved that part), and other surprises and twists.

I'll agree that 4Kids "City at War" wasn't that great, though. It needed to be longer and it needed to be later in the series (and after Shredder's final defeat). Still wouldn't have the impact of Mirage CaW, but even within 4kids limitations it should have been a lot better.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-09-2017, 12:29 PM
As much as I love 4Kids TMNT, "City at War" had as much to do with the original as "City Fall" in IDW... nothing.

Isn't the main-idea of "City at War" that Shredder has been defeated, and instead the various organized criminals of New York City fight each other for control of the criminal underworld? (and then, usually Karai shows up from Japan)

Such a story can be told in various ways, as each TMNT version is its own interpretation.

DWC
09-11-2017, 07:29 PM
What I wish they adapted, or that some TMNT TV show would adapt is my favourite Mirage issue. Vol.1 issue 11. "True Stories".

Most TMNT shows do the "Exile to Northhampton" arc, but they gloss over the emotional impact. They don't really get into the trauma they went through and the emotional healing afterwards.

To me it's the emotional content (and not the violence) that makes Mirage TMNT more "mature" than other versions. Both the kinda depressing "Life at best is bitter sweet" side and the heartwarming "Life is good, and life goes on" side.

I think both the 4kids and Nick versions (both of which I enjoy) really missed a golden opportunity by not adapting "True Stories" and by not touching on the emotional drama side of TMNT more often (the cop-out ending to "Sons of the Silent Age" being another example).

Anyway, for what it's worth I like 4Kids "Return to NY" I think it has more variety than the Mirage version with the appearance of Foot Mystics and Cyborg Baxter (I loved that part), and other surprises and twists.

I'll agree that 4Kids "City at War" wasn't that great, though. It needed to be longer and it needed to be later in the series (and after Shredder's final defeat). Still wouldn't have the impact of Mirage CaW, but even within 4kids limitations it should have been a lot better.

Great post.

Coola Yagami
09-15-2017, 02:50 PM
Isn't the main-idea of "City at War" that Shredder has been defeated, and instead the various organized criminals of New York City fight each other for control of the criminal underworld? (and then, usually Karai shows up from Japan)

Such a story can be told in various ways, as each TMNT version is its own interpretation.

No. City at War, among other things, dealt with the Foot divided and fighting among themselves for control. I don't remember other criminals getting too involved. Plus there was now a hit on Leo's head for killing Shredder.

Andrew NDB
09-15-2017, 03:14 PM
"City at War" is about many things. It is about the power vacuum left in the Foot in the wake of the death of the Shredder, the Elite still loyal to his memory and Karai and the Japan Foot coming to sort them out. It is about Splinter learning new ways and discovering the truth of life. It is about the Turtles questioning their purpose in the world with their sworn adversary dead and gone, which had been their ultimate goal since their mutation. It is about the circle of vengeance, how it is unhealthy and how it can end. It is about Casey finding his way after murdering a kid, then becoming a father. It is about April finding her way, too, with an uncertain future and upon the death of her father. By the end, all of these different stories coalesce and it is like a new beginning for all of the characters, a fresh start, both in mind/soul and literally.

What it is not about is a bunch of toy-shilling nonsense and 10 warring factions and magic and sorcery and other hijinks.

neatoman
09-15-2017, 03:30 PM
What it is not about is a bunch of toy-shilling nonsense and 10 warring factions and magic and sorcery and other hijinks.

In the slight defense of what was a pretty poorly handeled adaptation, it did at least serve the function of introducing a new major character and it's almost too short to be that offensive.