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Vegita-San
08-25-2017, 08:54 AM
Liking Fred Wolf is not a curse. it's not something to be ashamed of. It's not something to pariah over.

If it where not for FW, many of us would never have discovered and learned to enjoy the original comic. even if it did take a while to get used to the more violent, adult nature of it as kids.

I just find it odd that on a forum where the logo and name is about the actual cartoon, there is so much distaste for, what one can argue, a franchise that basically helped re launch the entire property into cultural icon ism.

Before that last sentence makes die hards see red(pun intended?), :). notice I said RE launch.

what did the Fred Wolf Series mean to you, either discovering it first round, or as an adult a tad late?

ProphetofGanja
08-25-2017, 09:19 AM
I loved the show when I was a kid. I loved singing along with the theme song, the goofiness of the show, Krang and Shredder bickering and Bebop and Rocksteady bumbling, all of it. I was Mikey for Halloween several years in a row. Good times.

DestronMirage22
08-25-2017, 09:28 AM
I really like FW for what it is. It has it's own unique charm and reminds me of better times.

I still watch an episode or two every once in a while and get a few chuckles from the humor and there are some episodes that I really enjoy. It might not be my ideal version of TMNT, but I still appreciate it.

I only wish the market for TMNT merchandise and peoples views on TMNT didn't stay only on FW. There are other versions of TMNT out there. Why not let them get their time to shine?



Hopefully this thread stays positive and doesn't turn into another case of "lets bash FW!" Some 'Dromers have different tastes in regards to TMNT. Why not let them discuss it in peace?

Vegita-San
08-25-2017, 09:43 AM
hence thread purpose :).

Wesley
08-25-2017, 09:45 AM
I loved the cartoon as a kid too. Thought it was one of the best shows ever at that time. Fun to watch but slightly serious at times. The intro was badass to me. Liked all the main characters.

I still like the show as an adult, though it's not as good as I remembered it. It's not one of the best shows ever after all, but half of the episodes are still fun to watch. It's alright in small doses. A guilty pleasure that has its ups and downs (similar to Pokémon). Some episodes are actually more enjoyable to me as an adult, though, as a lot of the humour such as Raphael's sarcastic remarks and the batter between Shredder and Krang went over my head as a kid.

I think the Fred Wolf toon was a good introduction to the Turtles anyway, as I probably wouldn't have become a fan of tmnt or been interested in watching the 4Kids series without watching it first.

neatoman
08-25-2017, 09:52 AM
The topic of this thread seems... Oddly defensive...

Ulisa
08-25-2017, 10:47 AM
This version was the first version of turtles I saw and it's definitely what got me interested in it (though the movies helped reinforce that). Truthfully, it still my favorite version in large part due to the characterization of Michelangelo who has always been my favorite.

Despite being the laid back and fun turtle, he was still a competent fighter and able of saving his brothers as much as they saved him, something I feel like later versions seem to forget. He came across as just a fun guy, someone I could easily see myself just shooting the breeze with.

I also must admit that despite it being a major point in all other versions, I kinda like that Leo and Raph lack that intense rivalry here. They still pick on one another but it isn't as...well...intense I guess as in other versions. I suppose I just like Raphael more as a smartass than a badass Wolverine type (though don't get me wrong, I do enjoy those versions too)

I've also just always been a fan of "anything goes" type of story telling so long as it follows the rules of the established universe and FW certainly does that. I'm always entertained by it.

That being said, I do thoroughly enjoy other versions as well (4kids being a close second) and I'll generally try anything at least once. For me, the selling point has always been the characters. If I really care/like the characters then everything else becomes less important

ranger_scout
08-25-2017, 10:48 AM
I would like to share this previous thoughts from another post. It's hard to believe that this show is celebrating 30th anniversary. The original series has meant so much to me over the years. It was one of the first cartoons I ever watched. Whenever I feel really down, some of the episodes make me feel better. The recent crossover with 2012 series, especially meant a lot to me because I was going through a dark time in my life when it first aired. I'm also very much looking forward to the next one that will happening soon. I also wrote fan-mail to Cam Clarke about three years ago and he replied back in such a gentleman like way. It was thrilling to meet Rob Paulsen back in December 2016 at an Expo. I hope to meet Townsend Coleman, Barry Gordon and some other actors from the series someday. It would be also nice if Cam came to a convention in my area.

CyberCubed
08-25-2017, 11:27 AM
I marathon through the show every 2-3 years. I probably watched it in full about 10-15 times.

Overall I still enjoy about 75% of the shows total episodes. The show is supposed to be a fun parody of action shows with bizarre sci-fi plots and nonsensical things happening which is why it still holds up. If it was actually written as a serious show it would not stand out. There are bad episodes of course but that's 25% of the duller eps.

plastroncafe
08-25-2017, 11:47 AM
The Big Cufflink Caper was funny as heck.

Andrew NDB
08-25-2017, 11:50 AM
Show was awesome when I was 6, 7. I remember getting mad when the same old episodes would play when I was anxious for new ones.

neatoman
08-25-2017, 12:01 PM
Show was awesome when I was 6, 7. I remember getting mad when the same old episodes would play when I was anxious for new ones.

When did it lose it's magic for you?

Andrew NDB
08-25-2017, 12:11 PM
When did it lose it's magic for you?

I don't know that it ever "lost" me. I remember trying to catch new episodes and not having any luck... I think my friends were telling me the new ones aired early on the weekends, which I would never be up for. Eventually I think I just gave up and got tired of seeing the same 5 or 6 episodes over and over again.

Rewatching then many years later, it just wasn't watchable anymore.

neatoman
08-25-2017, 12:30 PM
I don't know that it ever "lost" me. I remember trying to catch new episodes and not having any luck... I think my friends were telling me the new ones aired early on the weekends, which I would never be up for. Eventually I think I just gave up and got tired of seeing the same 5 or 6 episodes over and over again.

Rewatching then many years later, it just wasn't watchable anymore.

Huh, that might partially explain why you're not as attached to the show as other people here.

When were you 6-7? When season 2 was airing? Seems odd that a show with 65 episodes by the end the third season and 106 by the end of the fourth would show the same few episodes over and over.

Utrommaniac
08-25-2017, 12:33 PM
So, I ended up watching it late. And honestly, the best parts for me was the dialogue, especially when it was subtle insults at someone else's expense. "I'm taking out the trash" in regards to Vernon is a favorite.

And the way a few situations go horribly wrong.

Like in Turtles Everywhere, wherein the last female of a sea turtle species was coming to the beach to lay her eggs, and promptly gets captured in front of everyone watching. Probably the worst thing that could happen aside from the turtle just...flopping over and dying.



I would like a revival in Krang watching soap operas...I found that to be fun. And a return to his scientific background as well, but I guess Ma'riell might be taking up that mantle from him.

AquaParade
08-25-2017, 01:22 PM
I'll always love the original toon. Especially the first season. It's fun, it's colorful, and worked alongside Mirage comics and the 1990 film to forever capture my imagination.

Although, it will always be an interesting point of contention when debating the butterfly effect it had on the franchise in general. Both an engine and an anchor for the TMNT as a whole.

BubblyShell22
08-25-2017, 03:46 PM
The FW show was where I first became a TMNT fan so it's definitely something I will always treasure and I still enjoy watching it to this day. I also enjoyed how Nickelodeon included them in a crossover and am looking forward to the next one as well.

Andrew NDB
08-25-2017, 04:08 PM
When were you 6-7? When season 2 was airing? Seems odd that a show with 65 episodes by the end the third season and 106 by the end of the fourth would show the same few episodes over and over.

Probably season 2. I seem to remember getting the second edition bubblegum cards, and those were of the 2nd season. I don't remember much beyond that so I don't think I hung on too much afterward.

neatoman
08-25-2017, 04:25 PM
Probably season 2. I seem to remember getting the second edition bubblegum cards, and those were of the 2nd season. I don't remember much beyond that so I don't think I hung on too much afterward.

Seems to explain why you're not nostalgic for the show compared to others here who grew up with it, you would have almost nothing to be nostalgic about. My excuse is just that I was like 15 when I first tried to watch it, way past the age range to have the flaws fly over my head.

FredWolfLeonardo
08-25-2017, 04:36 PM
I love that we still one more arc in the Nick toon with the original cast yet to air.

30 years ago the Voice Actors brought the characters to life on the tv screen, and in 2017 they all finish with a blast :)

Andrew NDB
08-25-2017, 04:38 PM
Seems to explain why you're not nostalgic for the show compared to others here who grew up with it, you would have almost nothing to be nostalgic about.

I wouldn't say that. I have lots of fond memories of playing with all of the TMNT toys, pitting them against the Real Ghostbusters toys. Lots of epic battles in locations such as my bedroom floor to the bathtub. Or playing "Ninja Turtles" on the playground... basically everybody gets to pick a Turtle and one person gets to be the Shredder, and basically chase each other around the blacktop doing FAKE martial arts. Throwing pine cones too, I think.

When I sat down to rewatch the FW show with all the DVDs I expected it to be a warm rush of nostalgia. It was, I guess, for a few episodes. But man oh man, once that wore off a few episodes in, no amount of vodka could keep my attention.

I love that we still one more arc in the Nick toon with the original cast yet to air.

They are still doing more FW "homage" episodes? Yeesh.

FredWolfLeonardo
08-25-2017, 04:41 PM
When I sat down to rewatch the FW show with all the DVDs I expected it to be a warm rush of nostalgia. It was, I guess, for a few episodes. But man oh man, once that wore off a few episodes in, no amount of vodka could keep my attention.

What do you think was the best part about the show itself? and what was your favourite season and character?

They are still doing more FW "homage" episodes? Yeesh.

Well atleast they will possibly have Issue 1 turtles if that makes it better for you.

CyberCubed
08-25-2017, 04:44 PM
30 years ago the Voice Actors brought the characters to life on the tv screen, and in 2017 they all finish with a blast :)

Especially since they're all pretty old now and may never get another chance after this. Within the next 10 years at least one of them is sadly going to pass away.

MsMarvelDuckie
08-25-2017, 05:11 PM
Bite your tongue Cubed! Sheesh even YOU should know better than to INVITE misfortune....

For me the show was one of the few high points of my days growing up. I was introduced to TMNT by the movie (fell in love with it) though I sort of knew about the cartoon before that. But once I started watching the series I was fully hooked for life. I remember wanting to be more like how I saw them being- strong, brave, "heroic".... (I was picked on quite a bit growing up.) They were my role models in some ways. Even though I was already in middle school by the time I got into the show. Around 11 or 12 I think.

neatoman
08-25-2017, 05:11 PM
I wouldn't say that. I have lots of fond memories of playing with all of the TMNT toys, pitting them against the Real Ghostbusters toys. Lots of epic battles in locations such as my bedroom floor to the bathtub. Or playing "Ninja Turtles" on the playground... basically everybody gets to pick a Turtle and one person gets to be the Shredder, and basically chase each other around the blacktop doing FAKE martial arts. Throwing pine cones too, I think.

When I sat down to rewatch the FW show with all the DVDs I expected it to be a warm rush of nostalgia. It was, I guess, for a few episodes. But man oh man, once that wore off a few episodes in, no amount of vodka could keep my attention.

That seems to be more nostalgia for the toys and playtime with friends rather than the show itself, which is fine, they were pretty nifty toys and there's nothing wrong to have fun playing with friends. It's just that I wouldn't really equate admiration of a show with what one did because of it.



They are still doing more FW "homage" episodes? Yeesh.

Don't worry about it, DVDs will come out in three weeks and the episodes will float around on the internet for at least two months before they actually air. Anyone who cares will have already torrented them, the official airing will probably come and go with low ratings. Then there's three episodes left and the show is over.

Andrew NDB
08-25-2017, 05:15 PM
That seems to be more nostalgia for the toys and playtime with friends rather than the show itself, which is fine, they were pretty nifty toys and there's nothing wrong to have fun playing with friends. It's just that I wouldn't really equate admiration of a show with what one did because of it.

Well, I did do these, too:
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=21010

neatoman
08-25-2017, 05:29 PM
Well, I did do these, too:
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=21010

That's kinda cute.

Especially since they're all pretty old now and may never get another chance after this. Within the next 10 years at least one of them is sadly going to pass away.

Bite your tongue Cubed! Sheesh even YOU should know better than to INVITE misfortune....

Too late! Let's see here:
Cam Clarke, 59
Barry Gordon, 68
Rob Paulsen, 61
Townsend Coleman, 63
Pat Fraley, 68

The male life expectancy in the US as of 2017 is 76.73.
In 10 years Gordon and Fraley will be above that line, Clarke (the youngest of them) will be 7 away from it.

MsMarvelDuckie
08-25-2017, 05:38 PM
Life expectancy aside, I was talking about jinxing them by mentioning the possibility. If anything happens to one or more in the next few years, I'm blaming Cubed. Bad juju....

CyberCubed
08-25-2017, 06:05 PM
Don't worry about it, DVDs will come out in three weeks and the episodes will float around on the internet for at least two months before they actually air. Anyone who cares will have already torrented them, the official airing will probably come and go with low ratings. Then there's three episodes left and the show is over.

Just curious, why do you say things like this like you're trying to downplay them? Episodes will air on TV, come out on DVD, and will be rewatched or re-sold by Nick for years to come.

The way your posts sound as if these episodes, or the Nick cartoon in general, will be locked away in some vault somewhere after it ends and nobody will ever be able to watch it again. I mean I know this isn't what you mean, but I'm curious why you keep saying things like, "it'll all be over soon" like that's supposed to mean something?

neatoman
08-25-2017, 06:33 PM
Just curious, why do you say things like this like you're trying to downplay them? Episodes will air on TV, come out on DVD, and will be rewatched or re-sold by Nick for years to come.

The way your posts sound as if these episodes, or the Nick cartoon in general, will be locked away in some vault somewhere after it ends and nobody will ever be able to watch it again. I mean I know this isn't what you mean, but I'm curious why you keep saying things like, "it'll all be over soon" like that's supposed to mean something?

Of course it'll be available, I'm not denying that, I would be a fool if I was.

It's just that we know we'll get another show within a year of it's conclusion and they'll probably promote that show far more, then in 3-5 years the same thing will probably happen again. So even if it'll be on Netflix or something, it's probably just going to receive less attention with time in lieu of newer TMNT shows piling up. Nothing wrong with that of course, I just expect it to be buried under new product rather than remain a fan favourite.

CyberCubed
08-25-2017, 07:48 PM
If anything the Nick cartoon will likely be the most exposed one, and the 2018 show might be overshadowed...especially if it also turns out bad. The Nick cartoon got a lot of attention because:

1. It was the first Nick TMNT cartoon after the buy-out

2. It was an all CG cartoon

3. It got a tremendous amount of exposure due to airing on Nick, far more than the 2k3 series did.

4. It was the first cartoon that mixed original cartoon elements with Mirage and 4kids. Granted IDW does the same thing, but being a comic makes it less exposed.


The 2018 show on the other hand has big shoes to fill and a lot of strikes against it. People are hesitant to get into another TMNT reboot right after the previous one ended, and from signs of it being kid-oriented or the Turtles having powers makes it sound questionable from the start.

I imagine even a decade from now Nick's TMNT cartoon will still be brought up regularly and the kids who grew up with it will all be 20 year olds with nostalgia for it.

neatoman
08-26-2017, 05:35 AM
If anything the Nick cartoon will likely be the most exposed one, and the 2018 show might be overshadowed...especially if it also turns out bad. The Nick cartoon got a lot of attention because:

1. It was the first Nick TMNT cartoon after the buy-out

2. It was an all CG cartoon

3. It got a tremendous amount of exposure due to airing on Nick, far more than the 2k3 series did.

4. It was the first cartoon that mixed original cartoon elements with Mirage and 4kids. Granted IDW does the same thing, but being a comic makes it less exposed.


The 2018 show on the other hand has big shoes to fill and a lot of strikes against it. People are hesitant to get into another TMNT reboot right after the previous one ended, and from signs of it being kid-oriented or the Turtles having powers makes it sound questionable from the start.

I imagine even a decade from now Nick's TMNT cartoon will still be brought up regularly and the kids who grew up with it will all be 20 year olds with nostalgia for it.

Maybe but you don't have very strong arguments there.

It may be the first show since the buyout but it's literally the fourth one over all. Being in CGI means jack all, especially since the visuals have already aged poorly. I wouldn't exactly say it got "tremendous" exposure seeing how the ratings sank into mediocrity as early as season 2, no to mention how the next one is probably going to get the same or more. And mixing elements doesn't mean anything either, since the target audience probably don't know where they came from and excecution matters more than how much you can squeeze in.

That and kids in general are probably not going to care that the new show isn't the old show because it'll mostly be new kids, if it's actually good then older fans aren't really going to complain either. Your only really valid argument here is that, yes, in ca 2025 the show will probably have 20-somethings reminisce about watching it as kids.

Don't get me wrong, the show has it's charm but I don't think it'll end up on a pedestal, I think that would be grossly overestimating it.

Vegita-San
08-26-2017, 07:29 AM
Bite your tongue Cubed! Sheesh even YOU should know better than to INVITE misfortune....

For me the show was one of the few high points of my days growing up.
.

one would think. sigh.

i like to look at it as they may be older, but so long as they keep getting older they are fine.

and as for the second quote.....agreed. once i got used to the show, it became a daily high point to distract me from a less than happy school life. even better once i learned how to convert the show to audio, and i could listen to it on the go

Prowler
08-26-2017, 08:02 AM
This thread's premise seems a bit pointless considering this sub-forum is primarily dedicated to FW TMNT... hell these forums originally were founded with the intent of making fans of the FW series come together. So a thread titled "The Fred Wolf Appreciation Thread" is a bit redundant. :lol:

Vegita-San
08-26-2017, 08:13 AM
when you have lots of fred wolf bashers in a place named after fred wolf, sometimes you have to remind folks why this site is here :). it is possible to like all aspects of tmnt :).

Tetsu Deinonychus
08-26-2017, 09:29 AM
This thread's premise seems a bit pointless considering this sub-forum is primarily dedicated to FW TMNT... hell these forums originally were founded with the intent of making fans of the FW series come together. So a thread titled "The Fred Wolf Appreciation Thread" is a bit redundant. :lol:
It's more "TMNT in General" at this point.

Anyway, well I did lose a certain amount of respect for this show after learning about that sleazy lawsuit where FW tried to sue Eastman and Laird for control of the franchise, and David Wise's BS interview where he paints himself as the "true" creator of TMNT

And, also because most of it didn't age well.

But, I have to admit that when I put in my DVD and watch an episode, it's suddenly 90s Saturday morning again, even if it's Wednesday night. And, I have to love it for that. Also, I like the goofy Dick Tracy gangster characters. And, some of the humor holds up, mainly the 4th wall jokes, most of "Corporate Raiders from Dimension X", and that episode where Don keeps lecturing Raph about destroying property until Raph get's fed up and (channeling Mirage Raph) tells Don to shut up and breaks down a door.

Also, I like the Neutrinos, including the Mike/Kala pairing, and I like them as Greaser/Beatniks instead of soldiers (because I like Greasers and Beatniks), so FW is the only game in town there.

when you have lots of fred wolf bashers in a place named after fred wolf, sometimes you have to remind folks why this site is here :). it is possible to like all aspects of tmnt :).
Just don't pretend it's one-sided.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
08-27-2017, 11:40 AM
when you have lots of fred wolf bashers in a place named after fred wolf, sometimes you have to remind folks why this site is here :). it is possible to like all aspects of tmnt :).

Originally, bashing the series wasn't allowed

http://www.thetechnodrome.com/frules.shtml

still there, but outdated

:)

leader in blue
08-27-2017, 12:00 PM
like many of u 87 was what got me into tmnt
I always tell people tho if they want to watch what the comics intended watch the 2003 and 2012 series if u want to watch the naked gun version of that go with the original 87 series (im not bashing here i loved the naked gun movies lol)

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
08-27-2017, 12:32 PM
like many of u 87 was what got me into tmnt
I always tell people tho if they want to watch what the comics intended watch the 2003 and 2012 series if u want to watch the naked gun version of that go with the original 87 series (im not bashing here i loved the naked gun movies lol)

Nothing beats the action-comedy combined with slapstick humour in the original series. The turtles' sewer hideout, Channel 6 and the Technodrome all have their great dialouges between the main characters, (and background music).

But if you want exciting stories, it's the 2003-2009 version. The turtles will defeat the bad guys at the end, but the antagonists are tougher. It's Mirage-based but still friendly for children- and family.

The 2012 series is a way of creating something new, using elements from all earlier TMNT versions.

pferreira
08-31-2017, 01:24 PM
The Fred Wolf series is one of my favourite cartoons of all time next to The Real Ghostbusters. I'll always stand by that. It fuelled my imagination growing up and was a great source of ideas. I just think it's a sad we need an appreciation thread for a show that's constantly bashed on a website that was built on the show! :-? I mean if you say you like the FW series and find it as worthy as other iterations you immediately get called a mental patient with limited Internet access or some other BS. I mean WTF?! :o

Show was awesome when I was 6, 7. I remember getting mad when the same old episodes would play when I was anxious for new ones.Imagine being a BBC viewer back in the early 90s. :cry:

and David Wise's BS interview where he paints himself as the "true" creator of TMNT I've had problems with David in the past online due to his political views (he's limited Facebook post access as a result) and constant rudeness towards me. While he may embellish stuff about his involvement in the show he's not totally wrong. Before every Mirage fan here goes nuts on me like before I'll quote what you said in another post from another thread to explain why:

There's always so much talk about how vastly different FW TMNT is from the original Mirage comics.

And, it's true. The 80s show mostly used the comic as loose inspiration rather than attempt a true adaptation. To be fair, the comic had only got to about issue 11 by that point so there wasn't that much Mirage around to adapt yet. They kinda had to come up with their own take on it.So yeah that answers that. :)

This thread's premise seems a bit pointless considering this sub-forum is primarily dedicated to FW TMNT... hell these forums originally were founded with the intent of making fans of the FW series come together. So a thread titled "The Fred Wolf Appreciation Thread" is a bit redundant. :lol:Not really. I don't really see FW series fans come together, I see the series bashed every week I come here. A thread like this is necessary. It's ironic as you say considering it's built on the FW series.

The topic of this thread seems... Oddly defensive...I wonder why neatoman...I wonder why... :roll: :D

My excuse is just that I was like 15 when I first tried to watch it, way past the age range to have the flaws fly over my head.I watched TMNT when I was 7 or 8 and noticed most of the animation flaws as well as the formulaic plots. Who cares when the show is this much fun? 8)


Too late! Let's see here:
Cam Clarke, 59
Barry Gordon, 68
Rob Paulsen, 61
Townsend Coleman, 63
Pat Fraley, 68You might want to add Peter Renaday, he's 82. :o

Vegita-San
08-31-2017, 02:45 PM
you have to admit that only appearing a few times on thursday is a little weird :).

but other than that, yeah, there are reasons this thread exists. because mirage purists treat fred wolf like a curse, yet if it was not for this series, tmnt would be dead past issue 15 tops.

Andrew NDB
08-31-2017, 03:00 PM
https://s.faketrumptweet.com/j70xny2f_etzqz5_hn4v0i.png

https://s.faketrumptweet.com/j70xpk0z_r9qcz1_hn4v0i.png

pferreira
08-31-2017, 03:47 PM
you have to admit that only appearing a few times on thursday is a little weird :).Considering I spend other days on the week going through other fan forums and sites not really. I like my routine. ;)

because mirage purists treat fred wolf like a curse, yet if it was not for this series, tmnt would be dead past issue 15 tops.My feeling on it is if they don't like the series there are other parts of the forum they should be visiting. Why post on a section of the forum you hate?

Sumac
08-31-2017, 04:26 PM
My feeling on it is if they don't like the series there are other parts of the forum they should be visiting. Why post on a section of the forum you hate?
Because, fanboys consider it's their sacred duty to notify everyone and their mother (and their cat and a golden fish), that YOUR opinion is wrong and only their opinion is right. Basically they are like annoying vegan friend.

The funniest thing about this, is even though they act like a little kids who want to **** on everyone, because things don't go their way, at the same time they have a gall to claim some kind of "an intellectual" superiority. It's such fun case of selective blindness, that it is incredibly hilarious to make their jimmies rustled and watch them drop megatons of salt.:tlol:

ranger_scout
09-01-2017, 03:02 PM
I also want to add that I absolutely agree with what Renae Jacobs said about the four lead actors on the show.

You had the most talented, wonderful, creative group of actors in that recording studio; most of them had young children and they really developed those personalities. They were kind of like The Marx Brothers, The Stooges, Laurel & Hardy, Burns and Allen and all of those wonderful, fabulous old radio personalities and early movie personalities all rolled up into one. So we would start out a season and they would say “okay, you gotta make it tougher! don’t be so silly!” and we’d start and then it just fell apart and we went back to silly, because that was – it was wonderful and creative and funny. If you really listen to the old series and you listen to the lines, there was something for the little kids and there was something for the adults. That was Rob Paulsen and Barry and Townsend and Cam. Those guys put the heart and soul into those turtles and came up with those personalities.

When those four guys also played other characters like the villains, they were still absolutely fantastic. The show also had other brilliant voice actors like Renae, Peter Reneday, Pat Fraley, Jim Cummings and the late James Avery.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-02-2017, 10:45 AM
because mirage purists treat fred wolf like a curse

Don't they do that to any other version?

Vegita-San
09-02-2017, 10:55 AM
Don't they do that to any other version?

true. but this seems more constant and harsher here.

Wesley
09-02-2017, 11:28 AM
I also want to add that I absolutely agree with what Renae Jacobs said about the four lead actors on the show.



When those four guys also played other characters like the villains, they were still absolutely fantastic. The show also had other brilliant voice actors like Renae, Peter Reneday, Pat Fraley, Jim Cummings and the late James Avery.

Agreed. The voice acting on the show was also one of its strengths. I also thought the late Tony Jay was great.

Tetsu Deinonychus
09-06-2017, 12:01 PM
I've had problems with David in the past online due to his political views (he's limited Facebook post access as a result) and constant rudeness towards me. While he may embellish stuff about his involvement in the show he's not totally wrong. Before every Mirage fan here goes nuts on me like before I'll quote what you said in another post from another thread to explain why:

So yeah that answers that. :)


Yeah, but I'm talkling about stuff like taking credit for giving the Turtles individual personalities, or putting them in the sewers, or putting April in a Jumpsuit. Stuff that clearly existed in the source material.

If he wants to take credit for modeling April after Fujiko from Lupin (which I commend) or the Krang/Shredder dynamic or the whole Dimension X thing, that's one thing (assuming those were his ideas), but to take credit for elements that were in place before he was ever involved is ridiculous!

But, yes anybody adapting a comic into a show so early in it's run would have had to go in their own direction or run out of material to adapt pretty quickly.

They'd put it on this page: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OvertookTheManga

Anyway, to get back to the "Appreciation" thing. I second what everyone is saying about the voice actors, and I'll also say that Season one holds up pretty well. It even has a bit of that "Mirage grit", as much as an 80s kid's show can have anyway.

Wesley
09-06-2017, 03:41 PM
Season one is great alright even though it has its own flaws. It's the most rewatchable of all the seasons. It was ahead of its time, imo.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-06-2017, 04:00 PM
My favourite seasons are 1, 3 and 7.

Season 1 is the season that started it all and also has some great animation, done differently from the rest of the series.

Season 3 is the most iconic of all the seasons, establishing the characters as we know them and having many of the funniest and most memorable episodes in the series.

Season 7 is the final season where the show is done in the classic style before the Red Sky seasons and has almost every recurring character make one final appearance.

ToTheNines
09-06-2017, 04:18 PM
My favourite seasons are 1, 3 and 7.

Season 1 is the season that started it all and also has some great animation, done differently from the rest of the series.

Season 3 is the most iconic of all the seasons, establishing the characters as we know them and having many of the funniest and most memorable episodes in the series.

Season 7 is the final season where the show is done in the classic style before the Red Sky seasons and has almost every recurring character make one final appearance.

Good post here.

pferreira
09-07-2017, 02:02 PM
My favourite seasons are 1, 3 and 7.I thought Seasons 1-3 were great along with 7. It's just a shame come Season 8 we never saw conclusions to all those recurring characters.

The funniest thing about this, is even though they act like a little kids who want to **** on everyone, because things don't go their way, at the same time they have a gall to claim some kind of "an intellectual" superiority. It's such fun case of selective blindness, that it is incredibly hilarious to make their jimmies rustled and watch them drop megatons of salt.:tlol:Right on. Splinter as originally being a human is a disgrace, reincarnated Turtles (which is worse) is absolutely fine. :lol:

Yeah, but I'm talkling about stuff like taking credit for giving the Turtles individual personalities, or putting them in the sewers, or putting April in a Jumpsuit. Stuff that clearly existed in the source material.Going back to your quoted post it was still fairly early days. Yeah the TMNT had personalities but they weren't pronounced enough. Don in the early issues was more a Mr Fix-it with a toolkit rather than a proper genius. Mikey starting with the FW cartoon was more a humorous character. When I first read the Fugitoid arc I couldn't really tell them apart. Wise is wrong to an extent but then again he was adapting the TMNT from the first one or two issues of Volume 1 rather than the first 12 so I can see why he would incorrectly think he created their personalities.

I've read David say a lot of crap on Facebook but with TMNT I cut him some slack because he was treated pretty badly for nine years by the studios and never got much recognition for what he achieved in those years. Writers back then didn't receive the same celebrity status they do now and I guess he quite rightly felt cheated more because he grew to like the show he worked on.

Wesley
09-07-2017, 03:26 PM
My favourite seasons are 1, 3 and 7.

Season 1 is the season that started it all and also has some great animation, done differently from the rest of the series.

Season 3 is the most iconic of all the seasons, establishing the characters as we know them and having many of the funniest and most memorable episodes in the series.

Season 7 is the final season where the show is done in the classic style before the Red Sky seasons and has almost every recurring character make one final appearance.

Agreed. I think season 2 was decent as well, though not as good as the above seasons. Had some of my favourite episodes such as the Eye of Zarath story arc and the ep Enter: The Fly.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-07-2017, 03:57 PM
Agreed. I think season 2 was decent as well, though not as good as the above seasons. Had some of my favourite episodes such as the Eye of Zarath story arc and the ep Enter: The Fly.

The best season 2 episodes are "Return of the Shredder" and "Return of the Technodrome".

FredWolfLeonardo
09-07-2017, 04:02 PM
My personal favourite season 2 episode is Enter the Fly.

One of the rare case where an episode thats not a series finale has a plot twist that changes the rest of the series.

Wesley
09-07-2017, 04:06 PM
The best season 2 episodes are "Return of the Shredder" and "Return of the Technodrome".

"Return of the Shredder" and "Return of the Technodrome" are great eps as well. It seemed like the series could've ended after season 2 by the way its finale was written.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-07-2017, 04:18 PM
"Return of the Technodrome".

Moving Technodrome episodes are great.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-07-2017, 04:54 PM
Moving Technodrome episodes are great.

I agree, even the episode where it doesn't accomplish anything (Atlantis Awakes and the Ice Creature Cometh), seeing the technodrome move is always exciting.

Anyone else here a huge fan of the Red Sky seasons?

CyberCubed
09-07-2017, 04:57 PM
I also really like the majority of Season 6, as there seemed to be more of a shift to action again before going all the way in Season 7. Season 5 has some gems too, ignoring the weaker episodes. "The Ice Creature Cometh" is also an ep I like.

pferreira
09-07-2017, 06:18 PM
I also really like the majority of Season 6, as there seemed to be more of a shift to action again before going all the way in Season 7. Season 5 has some gems too, ignoring the weaker episodes. "The Ice Creature Cometh" is also an ep I like.Season 5 has Planet of the Turtleoids and I consider that one a classic.

ABrown
09-07-2017, 06:28 PM
Anyone else here a huge fan of the Red Sky seasons?

Red sky era fan here. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of us.

MrPliggins
09-07-2017, 07:23 PM
This show really caught me as a kid from the first episode I watched at 6am one Saturday morning in 1988. I became determined to get every episode on tape, and became frustrated when certain episodes would air all the time, while others would seem to NEVER air. When USA Network started airing them, they edited each episode. More frustration. Today, for 50 or 60 bucks you can just buy the entire series, uncut. Times sure have changed, haha.

I don't have much desire these days to watch the series. I gave my tapes away long ago, and I don't own the DVD collection of the series. Times really have changed. But I do still appreciate the series and hey, I'm still a tmnt fan, so that's what counts.

Wesley
09-08-2017, 08:47 AM
Anyone else here a huge fan of the Red Sky seasons?

I'm not a big fan nowadays, but I still like seasons 8 and 10. Don't care much for 9, but it has a few good episodes such as Split-Second. Loved the seasons as a teenager, though, as I thought the show was growing up with me back then with its darker and edgier tone. I actually preferred red sky over the earlier goofier eps at that time, but nowadays, I like both evenly.

I also really like the majority of Season 6, as there seemed to be more of a shift to action again before going all the way in Season 7. Season 5 has some gems too, ignoring the weaker episodes. "The Ice Creature Cometh" is also an ep I like.

Agreed. There are a lot of great eps scattered throughout the series. Season 4 had some good ones as well such as "Shredder's Mom."

Moving Technodrome episodes are great.

Agreed. They're some of the episodes I remembered most as a kid, as I always thought it was exciting to see the Technodrome moving even if it was only for a short time.

CyberCubed
09-08-2017, 11:50 AM
They usually saved the Technodrome moving episodes for either the finale's or the very beginning of a season, so they did feel like big events given they only happened once a season usually.

Vegita-San
09-08-2017, 12:06 PM
Agreed. They're some of the episodes I remembered most as a kid, as I always thought it was exciting to see the Technodrome moving even if it was only for a short time.

yep, as sad as it was, these where considered big show moments for me. and as such i usually rooted for the villains to win ;o).

Tetsu Deinonychus
09-09-2017, 11:34 AM
I've read David say a lot of crap on Facebook but with TMNT I cut him some slack because he was treated pretty badly for nine years by the studios and never got much recognition for what he achieved in those years. Writers back then didn't receive the same celebrity status they do now and I guess he quite rightly felt cheated more because he grew to like the show he worked on.

Leo as the leader, Raph as the "jerk", Mike as the playful one, and Don as the tech-wiz were still established in the Mirage issues that Wise had to work with. It's one thing to want his credit as the main writer for a particularly popular version of TMNT, but to try to usurp the actual TMNT creators, or take credit for TMNT as a whole is quite another.

yet if it was not for this series, tmnt would be dead past issue 15 tops.

I don't believe that at all. Again, FW TMNT only exists in the first place because the Mirage comic was a surprise hit and that got Playmates and MWS attention. If the Mirage comic was a flop they wouldn't have made a cartoon out of it. (Not saying the cartoon didn't amplify that success to an insane degree, just saying the comic was successful to begin with)

If I'm not mistaken though, what made the original Mirage fans abandon the book was the "guest era". Some good stories came from that era (Soul's Winter rules), but so did just as many bad ones and it all went on for way too long. I realize Eastman and Laird were too busy on the licensing end to write and draw issues, but there was probably a better way to handle that (like letting Lawson/Berger/Murphy/etc. handle the main comic and saving the guest stories for a separate anthology book or something).

Back on topic: Whatever you think of the show itself, FW TMNT did have some sweet background music.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-09-2017, 12:08 PM
Back on topic: Whatever you think of the show itself, FW TMNT did have some sweet background music.

The iconic locations all having different background music contributes to the great dynamic.

ToTheNines
09-09-2017, 01:38 PM
Leo as the leader, Raph as the "jerk", Mike as the playful one, and Don as the tech-wiz were still established in the Mirage issues that Wise had to work with. It's one thing to want his credit as the main writer for a particularly popular version of TMNT, but to try to usurp the actual TMNT creators, or take credit for TMNT as a whole is quite another.

I've had this same argument with him in the past, it gets you no where. The from 1984 to mid-87, the turtles had plenty of characterizing moments in Mirage between the main series, the micros and all the shorts/backups. But I guess in cferreira's demented little peanut brain, David Wise began scripting the pilot season in early 85 :ohwell:



I don't believe that at all. Again, FW TMNT only exists in the first place because the Mirage comic was a surprise hit and that got Playmates and MWS attention. If the Mirage comic was a flop they wouldn't have made a cartoon out of it. (Not saying the cartoon didn't amplify that success to an insane degree, just saying the comic was successful to begin with)

Agreed. Look at stuff like Usagi Yojimbo, Savage Dragon, Cerebus, Bone, etc. They all had very long comic runs, with little to no success in the world of film/animation, and no affiliation with the big two.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-09-2017, 02:47 PM
I've had this same argument with him in the past, it gets you no where. The from 1984 to mid-87, the turtles had plenty of characterizing moments in Mirage between the main series, the micros and all the shorts/backups. But I guess in cferreira's demented little peanut brain, David Wise began scripting the pilot season in early 85 :ohwell:



Agreed. Look at stuff like Usagi Yojimbo, Savage Dragon, Cerebus, Bone, etc. They all had very long comic runs, with little to no success in the world of film/animation, and no affiliation with the big two.

Didn't Stan Sakai say no to other versions of Usagi Yojimbo?

neatoman
09-09-2017, 03:09 PM
Didn't Stan Sakai say no to other versions of Usagi Yojimbo?

He said no to a Space Usagi cartoon, appearently he didn't get along with Playmates and the project fell through. The pilot was made though.
gWOvcIYd7IU

Candy Kappa
09-09-2017, 04:37 PM
I've had this same argument with him in the past, it gets you no where. The from 1984 to mid-87, the turtles had plenty of characterizing moments in Mirage between the main series, the micros and all the shorts/backups..

And the Pen & Paper Tabletop game TMNT & Other Strangeness from Palladium is a testament to that, and is the first adaptation (afaik) of TMNT predating the FW show.

Wesley
09-10-2017, 01:01 PM
The iconic locations all having different background music contributes to the great dynamic.

This cartoon had one of the best soundtracks in any show, up there with Gargoyles and the DCAU.

It was also exciting to see the Turtles enter the Technodrome, as it was usually the highlight of that episode (Muckman Messes Up, Super Irma, etc).

I liked the Turtle-centric eps as well (Take Me to your Leader, Raphael Meets his Match, Michaelango's Birthday, etc), as they gave each turtle more focus.

I liked Big Louie, Mona Lisa and Shreeka, even though the latter two only appeared in one ep each. Big Louie was my favourite of all the gangsters the Turtles faced, as he sounded more menacing than the others. Mona Lisa was a strong and likable female character. Shreeka had an interesting backstory.

I also liked that the Rat King was somewhat morally ambigious in this cartoon, as it made him a more interesting character than his other incarnations. Liked the dynamic he had with Leatherhead as well.

ranger_scout
09-11-2017, 08:34 PM
I know that Cam Clarke really wanted to play Michelangelo and while everyone was recording he was kind of bothered that he wasn't getting to be funny while voicing Leonardo. At first, the producers couldn't decide who should play Leonardo or Michelangelo. Townsend Coleman said that he got the luck of the draw when they wanted him to read Michelangelo first. The plan was to have him and Cam switch, but that didn't happen. They really did make the right call because when I've Townsend try to say Leonardo's lines like in the Season 5 DVD extra, he doesn't sound like a youthful leader. Cam made Leonardo really sound like a teenage leader.

This kind of reminds me of when Frank Welker and Casey Kasem auditioned for Scooby-Doo. Welker wanted to play Shaggy because he sounded a lot like him and was always being cast as straight-guy. Kasem actually wanted to try for Fred, but they thought he was better suited for Shaggy. That was obviously a good call there too.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-12-2017, 12:55 AM
I know that Cam Clarke really wanted to play Michelangelo and while everyone was recording he was kind of bothered that he wasn't getting to be funny while voicing Leonardo. At first, the producers couldn't decide who should play Leonardo or Michelangelo. Townsend Coleman said that he got the luck of the draw when they wanted him to read Michelangelo first. The plan was to have him and Cam switch, but that didn't happen. They really did make the right call because when I've Townsend try to say Leonardo's lines like in the Season 5 DVD extra, he doesn't sound like a youthful leader. Cam made Leonardo really sound like a teenage leader.

This kind of reminds me of when Frank Welker and Casey Kasem auditioned for Scooby-Doo. Welker wanted to play Shaggy because he sounded a lot like him and was always being cast as straight-guy. Kasem actually wanted to try for Fred, but they thought he was better suited for Shaggy. That was obviously a good call there too.

Thats a really interesting story, I knew Cam Clarke and Townsend Coleman originally had auditoned for each others turtles but never knew thats how it all played.

Anyways, I am really, really excited for the Second FW/Nick crossover coming out on DVD tomorrow. Just the thought of listening to the 80s turtles original voices all come back 30 years after they started just blows me away.

What a beautiful send off the series for its 30th anniversary :)

inaheap
09-12-2017, 09:10 AM
Sorry if this is somewhere else. Does anyone know how many of these episodes made it to VHS tape?

oldmanwinters
09-12-2017, 09:17 AM
Sorry if this is somewhere else. Does anyone know how many of these episodes made it to VHS tape?

Can't speak for all the international releases (which entailed many Season 2 episodes never put on VHS in America), but the old NinjaTurtles.com website had a pretty comprehensive list of USA tapes:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090225173932/http://www.ninjaturtles.com:80/

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-12-2017, 10:25 AM
Sorry if this is somewhere else. Does anyone know how many of these episodes made it to VHS tape?

A lot of their covers appear here:

http://www.thetechnodrome.com/images/vhs/

CyberCubed
09-12-2017, 12:43 PM
Ah yes, the days of paying $25 for 2 episodes on VHS tape. Thank god my parents bought me those tapes when I was a kid.

VHS tapes were the biggest rip-offs in history especially for TV series. 70% of the show never got a release and all the eps were also out of order.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-12-2017, 12:55 PM
Ah yes, the days of paying $25 for 2 episodes on VHS tape. Thank god my parents bought me those tapes when I was a kid.

VHS tapes were the biggest rip-offs in history especially for TV series. 70% of the show never got a release and all the eps were also out of order.

Very few TV series had all episodes released to videotape (maybe except some miniseries with just one or two short seasons). DVD changed that.

ABrown
09-12-2017, 01:49 PM
I never bought any of the tapes when I was child. Though I did have MANY episodes on tape.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-12-2017, 02:15 PM
I never bought any of the tapes when I was child. Though I did have MANY episodes on tape.

I videotaped as many episodes as possible. I would skip the intro song and outro music, and even the commercial breaks. I even videotaped almost all of season 1 from the 2003-2009 series.

neatoman
09-12-2017, 02:46 PM
I never bought any of the tapes when I was child. Though I did have MANY episodes on tape.

Cheeky....

MrPliggins
09-12-2017, 07:02 PM
Still have my original VHS tape of the first two episodes buried in a closet somewhere. I wonder if it still plays?

BubblyShell22
09-13-2017, 07:21 AM
I still have the VHS tapes from BK somewhere. I always loved popping those in and watching them.

biganimefan
09-13-2017, 09:37 AM
I still have some memory getting into this show. Back in 1989 I was introduced to the toys by a friend. He talked to me about it, and by the end of the year, the FW series became my favorite show(beating out Chip 'n' Dale Rescue Rangers and Duck Tales at the time).

The series was a huge part of my childhood. Being a fan back then is a bit of an understatement from me. I was homeschooled, sheltered, had/have CP(talking for the most part was more trouble than it was worth as a kid), and had VERY few friends. In my head, fan fiction concerning the Turtles was a constant thing for years as a kid.

Before the series ended, I came across both the Archie and Mirage Turtle comic lines and enjoyed what I read of them. To this day, I'm not really into comic books at all. Also, I do understand enough about quality these days that FW is technically one of the "lesser" of the incarnations, but I still am a fan of it. And I'll be doing an all-Universe encompassing Turtle marathon starting next Fall. Also plan on officially introducing it to my children when the time comes(already done so with my wife).

pferreira
09-14-2017, 11:11 AM
Leo as the leader, Raph as the "jerk", Mike as the playful one, and Don as the tech-wiz were still established in the Mirage issues that Wise had to work with. It's one thing to want his credit as the main writer for a particularly popular version of TMNT, but to try to usurp the actual TMNT creators, or take credit for TMNT as a whole is quite another.If you're adapting a comic based probably Issue 1 all that you said probably wasn't clear. Yeah as you previously said 12 issues existed which wasn't much to begin with but if David only read like the first issue he's going to think he was responsible for TMNT's personalities. I don't think even David has considered that.

I don't believe that at all. Again, FW TMNT only exists in the first place because the Mirage comic was a surprise hit and that got Playmates and MWS attention. If the Mirage comic was a flop they wouldn't have made a cartoon out of it. (Not saying the cartoon didn't amplify that success to an insane degree, just saying the comic was successful to begin with)I doubt TMNT would have been a success had it not been for the cartoon series. The comic did okay underground but it probably in the long run would have come and gone again again.

Cheeky....Why is that cheeky? We all recorded stuff back then on these things called VHS tapes..

I've had this same argument with him in the past, it gets you no where. The from 1984 to mid-87, the turtles had plenty of characterizing moments in Mirage between the main series, the micros and all the shorts/backups. But I guess in cferreira's demented little peanut brain, David Wise began scripting the pilot season in early 85 :ohwell:Well this 'little peanut brain' is reporting you're post for complete rudeness. ;)

Candy Kappa
09-14-2017, 12:48 PM
I doubt TMNT would have been a success had it not been for the cartoon series. The comic did okay underground but it probably in the long run would have come and gone again again.

Maybe not a Turtle mania success, but the movie deal was in the works before the show, it had a tabletop rpg with its own miniatures and we wouldn't have a cartoon had it not been for the interest in making action figures of the Turtles.

But nowhere as big without Playmates and FW, that's for sure.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-14-2017, 01:01 PM
Still have my original VHS tape of the first two episodes buried in a closet somewhere. I wonder if it still plays?

You mean this one?

http://www.thetechnodrome.com/images/vhs/hiah.jpg

FredWolfLeonardo
09-14-2017, 01:16 PM
I wonder why some people keep on arguing (when its about the quality of the cartoon) whether tmnt wouldve been a success without the FW show?

It should have no bearing on the show itself and even if we assume that The FW show had absolutely no bearing on tmnts popularity and success, it shouldn't matter.

I enjoy the show for its humour, colourful characters and you know what difference it would make for me if everyone else on the planet hated it with a passion? Absolutely none.

neatoman
09-14-2017, 03:25 PM
I wonder why some people keep on arguing (when its about the quality of the cartoon) whether tmnt wouldve been a success without the FW show?

It should have no bearing on the show itself and even if we assume that The FW show had absolutely no bearing on tmnts popularity and success, it shouldn't matter.

I enjoy the show for its humour, colourful characters and you know what difference it would make for me if everyone else on the planet hated it with a passion? Absolutely none.

Because it's hard to defend it for what it is? Bad writing and bad animation are almost too easy to argue, so defenders default to the success argument when it's brought up.

ToTheNines
09-14-2017, 03:34 PM
Well this 'little peanut brain' is reporting you're post for complete rudeness. ;)

You mean "your".

Yeah, go ahead and cry to the mods. That's what I do when I lose an argument.

pferreira
09-14-2017, 05:24 PM
Maybe not a Turtle mania success, but the movie deal was in the works before the show, it had a tabletop rpg with its own miniatures and we wouldn't have a cartoon had it not been for the interest in making action figures of the Turtles.

But nowhere as big without Playmates and FW, that's for sure.Oh yeah definitely agree with you there.

I wonder why some people keep on arguing (when its about the quality of the cartoon) whether tmnt wouldve been a success without the FW show?

It should have no bearing on the show itself and even if we assume that The FW show had absolutely no bearing on tmnts popularity and success, it shouldn't matter. You want rationale discussion from someone like neatoman?

Because it's hard to defend it for what it is? Bad writing and bad animation are almost too easy to argue, so defenders default to the success argument when it's brought up.Sorry this is an appreciation thread, why are you on here? Go and annoy Bobby with IDW questions and stop trolling this thread. :roll:

Yeah, go ahead and cry to the mods. That's what I do when I lose an argument.It's not an argument. You're wrong and being insulting and I take offence to the second as anyone would.

Prowler
09-14-2017, 05:25 PM
You mean "your".

Yeah, go ahead and cry to the mods. That's what I do when I lose an argument.
For the record, I don't think English is pferreira's first language. Ferreira is a Portuguese last name. I'm willing to bet he's either Portuguese or Brazilian. :P

MrPliggins
09-14-2017, 09:07 PM
You mean this one?

http://www.thetechnodrome.com/images/vhs/hiah.jpg

Yes, that's the one. I've had it for almost 30 years :teek: . I don't think VHS tapes were ever meant to last that long.

ToTheNines
09-15-2017, 05:28 PM
It's not an argument. You're wrong and being insulting and I take offence to the second as anyone would.

It's been an ongoing argument ever since you first showed your ass in this thread: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=54538

I know you like to paint me as some FW-bashing troll, but I'm a fan of all things TMNT. And I take offense to you trying to discredit Eastman and Laird, as any real fan would.

Especially when said discrediting is for the sake of that whiny bitchass hack, David Wise.

See you Thursday, C.

neatoman
09-15-2017, 06:27 PM
It's been an ongoing argument ever since you first showed your ass in this thread: http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=54538

I know you like to paint me as FW bashing troll, but I'm a fan of all things TMNT. And I take offense to you trying to discredit Eastman and Laird, as any real fan would.

Especially when said discrediting is for the sake of that whiny bitchass hack, David Wise.

See you Thursday, C.

I honestly don't understand why anyone would even attempt to discredit Eastman and Laird in favor of Wise. About 20 issues came out before the show debuted, you can point to elements that made it into the show, there's video footage of E&L talking about the direction of the toyline, there's sketches of the new characters by them made early on, etc.

We even know Wise's scripts for the first season were altered by request of E&L to have a radically different ending, something Wise himself never bring up in interviews, while instead railing against the evidence I already brought up. There's little ambiguity around E&L's creatorship, they're responsible for most of the Mirage material by that time, the designs for the toy characters and several vetos to Wise's scripts. Wise on the other hand, with all of this in mind, might be responsible for the basic storyline in those episodes and some of the reworkings we don't know for sure came from Playmates.

That's what I really hate about his lack of honesty, it just robs him of whatever credit he really does deserve and the lack of other sources won't clear up the confusion. Sure, he might have come up with Krang and the Technodrome in just the way he claims to have.His claim is that he came up with the Technodrome because Shredder needed an origin for his robotic ninjas, which then needed an origin itself which came in the form of Krang, which was inspired by an evil brain movie, then Krang needed a reason to ally with Shredder, which was a body of his own, which lead to the retroactive Utrom look. Oh and I have never seen him mention how the original intention was for Shredder to be the body replacement himself but that it got vetoed. Because there's so much untrustworthy nonsense in his interviews however, you might as well apply Occam's razor and say Krang the Technodrome were the result of Playmates wanting to market the Utroms as one character and a playset concept as early as possible and that all Wise did was to connect the pieces together. This might sound like slander but it's not, he's just demonstrably lacking credibility.

Tetsu Deinonychus
09-16-2017, 09:47 AM
I'm not even sure he gives credit to the other FW writers. Are we really supposed to take his word for it that Patti Howeth didn't really contribute anything, for example? I'd like to hear her side of the story.

If he wants his fair due, he should be willing to give others theirs as well.

Anyway, one thing I liked about this version is all the "gangster" characters. I thought they were a lot of fun.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-16-2017, 02:42 PM
Anyway, one thing I liked about this version is all the "gangster" characters. I thought they were a lot of fun.

Big Louie is my favourite. I also like how he has rivals like Beaver Cleaver and Wally Cleaver.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-16-2017, 02:55 PM
Don Turtelli is my favourite of the bunch.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-16-2017, 03:13 PM
Don Turtelli is my favourite of the bunch.

I saw all season 3 as a child, but didn't remember much of his tickle torture.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-21-2017, 04:44 PM
One thing I love about the show is that it had an ending unlike many 80s/90s cartoons of the time which abruptly ended with no closure.

Ninja Turtles could've so easily gone the same route, but I think the ending was perfect. The turtles defeat the most dangerous enemy they've faced, Dregg with the power of the galaxie's most dangerous aliens multiplied a hundredfold, using Krang's android body from the ruined technodrome and then are congratulated by Splinter as being Ninja Masters who are his equals.

My favourite tmnt ending by far. I think it really payed off considering how many adventures the 80s turtles went through.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-21-2017, 04:47 PM
One thing I love about the show is that it had an ending unlike many 80s/90s cartoons of the time which abruptly ended with no closure.

Ninja Turtles could've so easily gone the same route, but I think the ending was perfect. The turtles defeat the most dangerous enemy they've faced, Dregg with the power of the galaxie's most dangerous aliens, using Krang's android body from the ruined technodrome and then are congrajuated by Splinter as being Ninja Masters who are his equals.

My favourite tmnt ending by far.

It's great to see the turtles walk across the abandoned Technodrome on Balaraphon in "Divide and Conquer". Think how it echoes all the way back to the first season.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-21-2017, 04:50 PM
It's great to see the turtles walk across the abandoned Technodrome on Balaraphon in "Divide and Conquer". Think how it echoes all the way back to the first season.

Definetly, and it was also great to see them use Krang's android body to its full potential.

Ever since the 2nd episode it was teased that Krang's android body was unstoppable but we rarely ever got to see it in full force. It was awesome seeing it in its full glory, used to defeat the Turtles' final opponent using the Flying Claw Splinter's final technique taught to the Turtles.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-21-2017, 05:11 PM
Definetly, and it was also great to see them use Krang's android body to its full potential.

Ever since the 2nd episode it was teased that Krang's android body was unstoppable but we rarely ever got to see it in full force. It was awesome seeing it in its full glory, used to defeat the Turtles' final opponent using the Flying Claw Splinter's final technique taught to the Turtles.

In the Bebop and Rocksteady crossover, the robot could also fire laser rays. I wish that was in the original series, but the idea must be from the original videogames.

pferreira
09-21-2017, 06:10 PM
One thing I love about the show is that it had an ending unlike many 80s/90s cartoons of the time which abruptly ended with no closure.It got an ending but I think they could have done better. There was potential for something more epic involving more of the recurring villains from previous seasons.

Wesley
09-22-2017, 01:30 PM
One thing I love about the show is that it had an ending unlike many 80s/90s cartoons of the time which abruptly ended with no closure.

Ninja Turtles could've so easily gone the same route, but I think the ending was perfect. The turtles defeat the most dangerous enemy they've faced, Dregg with the power of the galaxie's most dangerous aliens multiplied a hundredfold, using Krang's android body from the ruined technodrome and then are congratulated by Splinter as being Ninja Masters who are his equals.

My favourite tmnt ending by far. I think it really payed off considering how many adventures the 80s turtles went through.

Agreed. Divide and Conquer is my favourite tmnt season finale, much better than the 4Kids one Wedding Bells and Bytes.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-22-2017, 02:44 PM
Agreed. Divide and Conquer is my favourite tmnt season finale, much better than the 4Kids one Wedding Bells and Bytes.

"The Day the Earth Disappeared" is also great.

Wesley
09-22-2017, 04:00 PM
"The Day the Earth Disappeared" is also great.

Agreed. One of the best episodes in the series, imo.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-22-2017, 04:01 PM
My favourite thing about that episode is that it made Splinter save the day and showed us he is still a formidable master despite probably aging since the beginning of the series.

My favourite moment is when Splinter says (I'm paraphrasing): "I've come not to fight, but to cast a stone in the lake! (followed by him either saying something in Japanese or making fighting noises, I cant tell lol)

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-23-2017, 09:57 AM
Agreed. One of the best episodes in the series, imo.

I first thought it was weird, but after looking it up:

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/423608/planets-could-orbit-singularities-inside-black-holes/

But still, I wonder if that planetoid was beyond the black hole's event horizon, how were stars visible in the skies of the planetoid?

Wesley
09-23-2017, 10:07 AM
My favourite thing about that episode is that it made Splinter save the day and showed us he is still a formidable master despite probably aging since the beginning of the series.

My favourite moment is when Splinter says (I'm paraphrasing): "I've come not to fight, but to cast a stone in the lake! (followed by him either saying something in Japanese or making fighting noises, I cant tell lol)

Splinter had some of the best lines in the series alright. I especially liked when he said to Dregg that it wouldn't be the black hole that would destroy him but his own evil, foreshadowing Dregg's obsession with the Turtles being his undoing.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-23-2017, 10:20 AM
Splinter had some of the best lines in the series alright. I especially liked when he said to Dregg that it wouldn't be the black hole that would destroy him but his own evil, foreshadowing Dregg's obsession with the Turtles being his undoing.

I like seasons 8 and 10, but not those mutations.

pferreira
09-28-2017, 10:59 AM
I came across this interview with director Bill Wolf. It's a shame that we don't get as much insight into the show as we could have but at least it's something:

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Wesley
09-28-2017, 03:26 PM
I like seasons 8 and 10, but not those mutations.

Same as me, except I didn't mind the mutations, though I was glad they were written out early on in season 10. Didn't care much for nine (a lot of changes were introduced abruptly), but it had a few good episodes such as Split-Second.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-28-2017, 03:31 PM
One thing I loved about the series was the background music.I'm surprised that for a 1980s Saturday morning cartoon, that the background music was so memorable and catchy.

As much as I like the Background Music of the later animated tmnt shows, I don't think that they both even hold a finger to the original soundtrack combined. The only other tmnt soundtracks I find as memorable are that of the 1990 film and The Turtles in Time Video game.

pferreira
09-28-2017, 06:14 PM
As much as I like the Background Music of the later animated tmnt shows, I don't think that they both even hold a finger to the original soundtrack combined. The only other tmnt soundtracks I find as memorable are that of the 1990 film and The Turtles in Time Video game.I agree. I always found it a shame the FW series was so poorly documented by production as well as the fans. I mean we have the Bill Wolf interview above but it's not much to go on.

Wesley
09-29-2017, 10:27 AM
One thing I loved about the series was the background music.I'm surprised that for a 1980s Saturday morning cartoon, that the background music was so memorable and catchy.

As much as I like the Background Music of the later animated tmnt shows, I don't think that they both even hold a finger to the original soundtrack combined. The only other tmnt soundtracks I find as memorable are that of the 1990 film and The Turtles in Time Video game.

I agree about this series' soundtrack as well. The best background music in any show I've watched, live-action and animated. Pity it was never released as an album.

Prowler
09-29-2017, 10:42 AM
I agree about this series' soundtrack as well. The best background music in any show I've watched, live-action and animated. Pity it was never released as an album.
Dunno about best ever. Maybe as far American cartoons go, but not once you put anime in the equation.

But yes, the FW series had great background music, indeed.

inaheap
09-29-2017, 12:55 PM
I'm glad someone started this thread. I recently got my hands on some of the old VHS tapes. I didn't think I would still enjoy this so much as an adult. But I did. It was nice to sit down and watch something fun and light with fond memories. It got me to thinking about how as a kid I wished Dark Wing Duck was serious like TMNT. :tgrin:

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-29-2017, 01:14 PM
The Turtles in Time

It had the Channel 6 music at least.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-29-2017, 01:18 PM
Don't know if this counts as the FW show but I also love some of the new elements of the show made in Japan but absent from the U.S.

For example, the Japanese theme song, The Mutant Turtles OVA (especially love the Go, Go Turtle Song), The Manga and of course, THAT Krang.

You know, the one with the extremely high pitched voice that is loved and embraced by Japanese tmnt fans? Its grown on me now but I couldnt stand it at first lol.

Prowler
10-04-2017, 05:02 AM
Season 1 and 7 were the best ones. Season 8 was also good, but the show had been given a makeover by then so...

Season 3 had loads of good episodes aswell. Season 2 is memorable for Baxter, the Pizza aliens, the Eye of Sarnoth arc and April Catwoman, but I don't think it's aged that well. Looking back, it seemed like the show was still trying to decide which road it would take. Also, it's kinda odd how Baxter stuck around as Shredder's main sidekick for several episodes with bebop and Rocksteady just remaining in the Technodrome.

Seasons 1-3 seem to be the most iconic and well remembered seasons of the show. I think the show peaked around season 3. I mean, that season had what, 50 episodes?! It was insane. Turtle Mania was at tis peak at the time, and the first movie would come out shortly after it or during it. 1989-1990 seems to be the peak of TurtleMania. Maybe 1991 as well.

I firmly believe that at least 70% of the people who grew up watching the FW series never got to see the end of it and are totally unaware of the Red Sky seasons and characters like Dregg and Carter. Does anyone else think this as well?

pferreira
10-05-2017, 10:12 AM
I agree about this series' soundtrack as well. The best background music in any show I've watched, live-action and animated. Pity it was never released as an album.I hasn't been released but there's no reason why it can't get a release. Intrada or La-La-Land could help.

Season 3 had loads of good episodes aswell. Season 2 is memorable for Baxter, the Pizza aliens, the Eye of Sarnoth arc and April Catwoman, but I don't think it's aged that well. Looking back, it seemed like the show was still trying to decide which road it would take. Also, it's kinda odd how Baxter stuck around as Shredder's main sidekick for several episodes with bebop and Rocksteady just remaining in the Technodrome. I like Season 2. It was still serious like the first season but was a bit lighter. I think as the seasons went on beginning with Season 3 it really deviated into comedy territory. Thankfully later seasons got it back on course at5 least tonally.

As for Baxter hanging around Shredder I don't see a problem with that. He wasn't allowed to use any resources from Dimension X so the mutants were out of the question. Shredder forced Baxter to work for him. It was either working with Shredder or jail. Not a difficult choice.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-05-2017, 12:05 PM
I firmly believe that at least 70% of the people who grew up watching the FW series never got to see the end of it and are totally unaware of the Red Sky seasons and characters like Dregg and Carter. Does anyone else think this as well?

Outside the USA or maybe outside the entire English speaking world, probablly 95 %...

Prowler
10-05-2017, 12:08 PM
Outside the USA or maybe outside the entire English speaking world, probablly 95 %...
Good point.

Vegita-San
10-05-2017, 01:31 PM
I agree that Day the earth dissapeared and divide and conquer are two stellar ways to end the series. would have been nicer to have shredder and krang in the shows.. but at least we got the technodrome and android.

Prowler
10-05-2017, 01:32 PM
I agree that Day the earth dissapeared and divide and conquer are two stellar ways to end the series. would have been nicer to have shredder and krang in the shows.. but at least we got the technodrome and android.
Yeah, season 10 was pretty good for what it was tbh.

That being said, I think Turtle Trek would have also made a satisfactory finale.

FredWolfLeonardo
10-05-2017, 02:15 PM
I sometimes wonder what this show would've been like if it had musical numbers.

Prowler
10-05-2017, 02:17 PM
I sometimes wonder what this show would've been like if it had musical numbers.
...weren't the Howie episodes enough of a showcase of that already?! Jeebus, musicals make my skin crawl.

FredWolfLeonardo
10-05-2017, 02:18 PM
I mean with the main characters, but I agree I couldn't stand the Howie episodes :lol:

Except for that Donatello vs Shredder fight in "Name that Toon" which was awesome.

Prowler
10-05-2017, 02:19 PM
I mean with the main characters, but I agree I couldn't stand the Howie episodes :lol:

Sadly, the first Howie episode has a pretty good battle between Donatello and Shredder.

CyberCubed
10-05-2017, 02:23 PM
The first Howie ep was great. The second was just ok.

FredWolfLeonardo
10-05-2017, 02:24 PM
Sadly, the first Howie episode has a pretty good battle between Donatello and Shredder.

Yeah, it was surprising how action esque it was in the most slapstick season of the series.

Donatello even hit Shredder in the face with his Bo staff, but it was nice to see Shredder overpower him in the end and not be a complete pushover.

Prowler
10-05-2017, 02:25 PM
The first Howie ep was great. The second was just ok.
I think I prefer the 2nd one. Howie is more bearable in that episode. Also Shredder dressed up as the phantom of the opera was kinda cool.

Jester
10-05-2017, 03:49 PM
https://i.imgflip.com/lpddu.jpg

Thread locked long enough for me to do some spring cleaning....seriously do some of you have nothing better to do in the middle of a weekday than to measure e-phalli?

EDIT; OK. Now that I've taken time out of my day, time I could be spending asking my son about his day at school or playing with my youngest, to clean up a thread where 3 or 4 FREAKING ADULTS can't play nice on the internet, here's the thread back.

pferreira
10-05-2017, 06:15 PM
EDIT; OK. Now that I've taken time out of my day, time I could be spending asking my son about his day at school or playing with my youngest, to clean up a thread where 3 or 4 FREAKING ADULTS can't play nice on the internet, here's the thread back.I've already reported To The Nines for insults. I don't understand why people are trolling an appreciation thread? :ohwell:

ToTheNines
10-05-2017, 06:20 PM
Look dude, I'm sorry. Just let it go now.

FredWolfLeonardo
10-05-2017, 06:22 PM
I've already reported To The Nines for insults. I don't understand why people are trolling an appreciation thread? :ohwell:

I know you have a right to report and what not, but its not the best idea to post about it in a thread, it only becomes flame bait.

But lets leave all that behind us, and enjoy this thread for it was meant for :)

pferreira
10-05-2017, 06:26 PM
But lets leave all that behind us, and enjoy this thread for it was meant for :)I wouldn't want it any other way mate. :)

FredWolfLeonardo
10-05-2017, 06:46 PM
I was recently wondering, how similar will the 2018 Rise of the Tmnt be to this show? We know it is 2D and more lighthearted than the Nick show so there's that.

If they do use FW elements, I hope its the actual style rather than using the names like Irma, Bebop and Rocksteady on completely different characters like the Nick show did. Not that it was bad, I actually liked that approach but I'd like to see Rise do the opposite.

I think a new tmnt show with FW style humour and tone could possibly be pulled off and added upon without using any (or atleast most) of the FW Original Characters.

Jester
10-05-2017, 06:52 PM
I've already reported To The Nines for insults. I don't understand why people are trolling an appreciation thread? :ohwell:

You do not want to keep going there with me right now.

Let. It. Go.

CyberCubed
10-05-2017, 06:54 PM
If they do use FW elements, I hope its the actual style rather than using the names like Irma, Bebop and Rocksteady on completely different characters like the Nick show did. Not that it was bad, I actually liked that approach but I'd like to see Rise do the opposite.

Irma was purposely a bait-and-switch character because she was a robot and Kraang subprime, but Bebop/Rocksteady are the same characters just reimagined like every series does. I wouldn't call them completely different characters at all.

It's pretty obvious that no show is going to keep the characters 1:1 the same as any past incarnation.

FredWolfLeonardo
10-05-2017, 06:59 PM
Irma was purposely a bait-and-switch character because she was a robot and Kraang subprime, but Bebop/Rocksteady are the same characters just reimagined like every series does. I wouldn't call them completely different characters at all.

It's pretty obvious that no show is going to keep the characters 1:1 the same as any past incarnation.

Yeah, I guess Bebop and Rocksteady weren't the best example. The Nick versions do share quite a few similarities to the originals and are probably among my favourite in the Nick show.

What I meant more specifically, that I should'e clarified in my earlier post, is that I would like to see the self aware and sarcastic humour of the Old Toon come back in Rise with entirely new characters rather than see a new version of Bebop, Rocksteady and so on with a different style of humour like the Nick show did.

CyberCubed
10-05-2017, 07:01 PM
I'm really curious what the humor will be like in general. The Nick cartoon had pretty standard modern day cartoon humor since in shows like Teen Titans and current cartoons. Also with the anime expressions or crazy scenes they do, which is common in shows these days.

The original cartoon humor isn't really common anymore. I can't really think of any cartoon from say the late 90's through the 2000's that's similar to it.

FredWolfLeonardo
10-05-2017, 07:08 PM
I'm really curious what the humor will be like in general. The Nick cartoon had pretty standard modern day cartoon humor since in shows like Teen Titans and current cartoons. Also with the anime expressions or crazy scenes they do, which is common in shows these days.

The original cartoon humor isn't really common anymore. I can't really think of any cartoon from say the late 90's through the 2000's that's similar to it.

Yeah, that kind of humour hasn't been used in a long time. Thats partly why I'd like to see it come back with a twist so audiences used to modern humour aren't completely lost, and we could possibly get a resurgence.

Weird, how in the late 90s, people were most likely ready to move on from the FW style of humour, to either gritty to more modern type of humour in animated shows, but now many people don't like modern humour for being too loud/in your face, and I imagine they would welcome a tmnt show using a completely different style of humour.

I have a somewhat similar view on the Sonic shows, I don't find the new ones funny like Aosth which had alot of slapstick, don't get me wrong, but it was also funny in my eyes due to the self awareness/way the characters interacted, especially the villains.

Vegita-San
10-05-2017, 07:10 PM
I think a new tmnt show with FW style humour and tone could possibly be pulled off and added upon without using any (or atleast most) of the FW Original Characters.

I think it could, too. especially since people are starting to tire of gloom and doom and grit and gritty.

what I worry about is the intelligence level of that humor. I don't want to see fart jokes or internal self aware jokes, or worse. and by internal self aware, making fun of the style ala turtles forever. not breaking fourth wall jokes.

As for Howie, It's weird how one of the more action packed fights is in an episode so annoying and goofy. Don basically rams his staff end through the shredders eyes.

I thought the first episode was a little more fun. the second episode was a bit slower.

Heh, odd memory. during a junior high media class, one of my fellow students brought in the fight of Irk in phantom guise fighting off the turtles in the basement 'See the turtles, attack the turtles...' and claimed it as 'extremely violent'. LOL.

Imagine that report now with all the stuff we've gotten since? :)

CyberCubed
10-05-2017, 07:11 PM
Either that or shows tend to be serious most of the time like Young Justice and some other recent DC shows. Although Brave and the Bold had some silly humor, but I didn't watch that show too closely.

I don't watch any of the current CN/Nick/Disney shows so I have no idea what goes on in them, but from what I see online in small clips and stuff it's the same type of loud humor that's in your face with characters screaming at each other.

Tetsu Deinonychus
10-07-2017, 09:17 AM
A show combining FW style self-aware humor with Mirage style character drama would be a good balance. Especially, if they mostly stick to Mirage characters and story elements, but not being afraid to bring in a FW or Archie character if it fits the story.

Powder
10-07-2017, 01:40 PM
God, no. No.

LeotheLateBloomer
10-07-2017, 02:18 PM
God, no. No.

I agree. That's rather jarring.

neatoman
10-07-2017, 02:28 PM
A show combining FW style self-aware humor with Mirage style character drama would be a good balance. Especially, if they mostly stick to Mirage characters and story elements, but not being afraid to bring in a FW or Archie character if it fits the story.

I don't like the comedy of the FW show and I don't think it'd mix well with Mirage, certainly not if you're trying to keep the general tone the same.

If you had to, I mean really had to force the tone of Mirage with more comedy, I'd say you'd have to rethink the type of comedy. Given how depressing Mirage seemed to go for with it's tone a lot of the time, I'd say something like Rick and Morty or some other dark comedy might form a better template than FW. If you're gonna blend, let's say Casey becoming an alcoholic over commiting manslaughter, you better make it something ****ed up.
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Prowler
10-08-2017, 04:29 AM
A show combining FW style self-aware humor with Mirage style character drama would be a good balance. Especially, if they mostly stick to Mirage characters and story elements, but not being afraid to bring in a FW or Archie character if it fits the story.
That wouldn't be fitting of Mirage at all. I mean, Mirage is the source material and FW is pretty far from the source material, so what would be the point of turning Mirage into FW v2.0? That would be the last nail on the coffin for the TMNT property to become 100% FWnised.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-08-2017, 06:50 AM
A show combining FW style self-aware humor with Mirage style character drama would be a good balance. Especially, if they mostly stick to Mirage characters and story elements, but not being afraid to bring in a FW or Archie character if it fits the story.

I don't recall too much humour in Archie. It went from adapting, then som new stories, international travels, Dimension X adventures and then some dark cyberpunk-stories with Earth being flooded in the future. Great, but not so much humour.

Vegita-San
10-08-2017, 09:27 AM
As much as I like Fred wolf Stuff, obviously, I would NOT want the franchise to have to rely on it over and over and over again.

Especially since most people don't seem to get what made the original series so fun.

For instance, the Rat King. the original series had him be this fun, mysterious character who was neither good guy, nor bad guy, but helped out both sides when it suited him. the 4Kids series turned him into a stupid clone cyborg (one miscalculation in that show), and the Nick Series..i'm not sure what was going on there. The IDW series kind of combines both in a far more interesting take as an immortal prankster god.


Sure, Turtles Forever came the closest. with the latest crossover coming second. but even then each had their hang ups with the fred wolf stuff that made it seem more like a parody than a tribute at times.

I'd like to see more like what IDW is doing. see how you can pay tribute to what has come before, but at the same time, Doing LOTS more original stuff to try and expand the universe. Koya and Bludgeon are rather interesting. As is Apolex and the NEW Angel. as well as Harold.

CyberCubed
10-08-2017, 11:46 AM
the 4Kids series turned him into a stupid clone cyborg (one miscalculation in that show), and the Nick Series..i'm not sure what was going on there. The IDW series kind of combines both in a far more interesting take as an immortal prankster god..

Rat King's origin in the 4kids series was great, him being the failed Bishop clone the Turtles defeated in Season 3 made sense for him. Nick's Rat King might very well be one of my favorite incarnations of the character too.

I also don't understand why those two origins bother you but you praise IDW's, their take on Rat King is by far the most different version of the character we've seen to date.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-08-2017, 12:57 PM
For instance, the Rat King. the original series had him be this fun, mysterious character who was neither good guy, nor bad guy, but helped out both sides when it suited him.

All his appearances as a main character are good (I don't count his appearance in "Pizza by the Shred" as a main character).

Vegita-San
10-08-2017, 01:04 PM
All his appearances as a main character are good (I don't count his appearance in "Pizza by the Shred" as a main character).

twas funny though :) they almost ignored him and all he wanted was a pizza :)

FredWolfLeonardo
10-08-2017, 01:17 PM
Although its never explained why, I loved how the Rat King becomes very bloodthirsty and evil in his final appearance in season 8.

I dig the trenchcoat/hat, and I think the combination of his new attitude, his giant mutated rats and access to the Shockwave made him the most dangerous that the Rat King has ever been.

CyberCubed
10-08-2017, 01:56 PM
I dig the trenchcoat/hat, and I think the combination of his new attitude, his giant mutated rats and access to the Shockwave made him the most dangerous that the Rat King has ever been.

I also liked that the Turtles captured him for good in that episode. He didn't escape or get away at the end and it was his last appearance.

Wesley
10-08-2017, 02:02 PM
Although its never explained why, I loved how the Rat King becomes very bloodthirsty and evil in his final appearance in season 8.

I dig the trenchcoat/hat, and I think the combination of his new attitude, his giant mutated rats and access to the Shockwave made him the most dangerous that the Rat King has ever been.

Agreed. One of the reasons why Wrath of the Rat King is one of my favourite episodes. Also, I thought Splinter said his best speech in that ep. My signature quote is taken from it.

MikeandRaph87
10-08-2017, 03:13 PM
What do people say Rat King was a neutral character? He helped them find April in Return of The Fly in his second appearance. That was it! He did it because he was attracted to April and was not prepared to plot/battle beyond asking if the Turtles were looking for him to battle his loyal army of rat followers.

Rat King to me was the #2 villain, second only to Shredder and Krang who are lumped together as the #1 being a team in this series. Then prehaps dropped down to #3 overall when Shredder and Krang are separate. Rat King seems to be to iconic based on his 10 appearances between 1989 and 1994 in the original cartoon. I often wondered why Rat King was pulled from the comics and used of the choices that were available. It also surprised me that the comics did not bring him back alive as a reoccurring character after the carton garnered a fandom for the character.

I do like the mystery aspect of the character, but I still want an origin for the character as seen in the 1987 cartoon. We finally got one around 2007 in Mirage which I bet inspired the incarnation we see in IDW as a supernatural being.

I did not like the fact Agent Bishop's imperfect clone wrapped himself in bandages and went with the Rat King's one-off story in Mirage. That was not Rat King, just a one-note minor character taking another character's story. It was disappointing for me. I like the fact that Shredder and Rat King are formidable human adversaries for the TMNT. 4Kids took that away from them.

Nick's Rat King got an origin similar to what i had in mind for the character and also the concept as seen in I, Monster and Of Rats And Men. Its how I want to see the character beyond the 1987 cartoon, but design wise? Nothing beats the 1987 cartoon/Mirage comics/Archie comics pretty much shared look. I especially like the look from Wrath of The Rat King. There was more story to tell with the basics being beefed up to 11 yet he was actually successfully captured and stayed that way. How many could you say that for in TMNT overall especially the 1987 cartoon? Maybe a gangster and Beserko (should have been the successor villain over Dregg!), but that was it. Being trapped in Dimension X is not really captured. They can wreck havoc still, just not on Earth.

FredWolfLeonardo
10-08-2017, 04:10 PM
I imagine FW Rat King's origin was linked to the season 1 episode, "A Thing About Rats".

Maybe he saw the Mousers killing rats everywhere and was so horrified that he rescued the rats he could and abandoned humanity for a life in the sewers.

I'm surprised they didn't pay homage to that episode in the Rat King's debut, when they did later on pay homage to another season 1 episode in Splinter Vanishes, a season 4 episode featuring the Rat King.

In that episode, Splinter was able to convince the rats to turn against the enemies and showcase that his mind control is stronger than the Rat Kings. I instantly thought of the episode "Turtle Tracks" when he did that, as Splinter was originally friends with the rats when he fled to the sewers, and shared a connection with them.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-08-2017, 04:15 PM
I imagine FW Rat King's origin was linked to the season 1 episode, "A Thing About Rats".

Maybe he saw the Mousers killing rats everywhere and was so horrified that he rescued the rats he could and abandoned humanity for a life in the sewers.

He was skilled in chemistry, so maybe he was studying at a university and kicked out from there because of him doing dangerous attempts with the chemicals.

CyberCubed
10-08-2017, 04:26 PM
I did not like the fact Agent Bishop's imperfect clone wrapped himself in bandages and went with the Rat King's one-off story in Mirage. That was not Rat King, just a one-note minor character taking another character's story. It was disappointing for me. I like the fact that Shredder and Rat King are formidable human adversaries for the TMNT. 4Kids took that away from them.
.

Either way, it's still his proper backstory in that reincarnation. Rat King tends to have a wildly different origin in each series.

MikeandRaph87
10-08-2017, 04:49 PM
He was skilled in chemistry, so maybe he was studying at a university and kicked out from there because of him doing dangerous attempts with the chemicals.

That is the origin that I prefer to give him. It has similarities to Jonathan Crane/Scarecrow, but it really works. I fleshed it on in fan fiction leaning thst way, but I would love to hear David Wise take on it even if it were a Facebook post.

Vegita-San
10-08-2017, 06:54 PM
i always figured the rat king was a rat mutated intoa human, maybe after being around splinter. it would explain why he can communicate with them.

and they did find the mutagen in h is layer, that was unstable.

Wesley
10-10-2017, 02:27 PM
I kinda looked up to the Turtles as a kid, as I thought they were brave, calm, determined, etc. at the time. For example, in the episode Bebop and Rocksteady Conquer the Universe, they still pluck up the courage to help Zach near the end even after being zapped by the anxiety ray. I also liked the few badass moments Shredder had in the series such as when he beat all four Turtles in The Incredible Shrinking Turtles and stood up to Dregg in season 10.

CyberCubed
10-10-2017, 06:47 PM
I honestly think it was this show that got me into sci-fi. Almost all the plots of each episode were sci-fi influenced, it was basically "Star Trek for kids."

If some say the Nick show was a bit horror inspired, I'd say the original cartoon was sci-fi inspired. Every episodes featured a B-movie 50's sci-fi plot, aliens, robots, dimension hopping, mutations, mind control, etc.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
10-10-2017, 06:53 PM
I honestly think it was this show that got me into sci-fi. Almost all the plots of each episode were sci-fi influenced, it was basically "Star Trek for kids."

If some say the Nick show was a bit horror inspired, I'd say the original cartoon was sci-fi inspired. Every episodes featured a B-movie 50's sci-fi plot, aliens, robots, dimension hopping, mutations, mind control, etc.

Absolutely not "Star Trek for kids." More like B-movies for kids.

Do not blaspheme. :trazz:

MsMarvelDuckie
10-10-2017, 07:12 PM
Yeah I'm with Cylons here. There was more of The Blob or Them or Day the Earth Stood Still in the OT than Star Trek. It even had a parody version of the monolith from 2001! I caught the references to those old sci-fi B movies even when I was a kid.