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View Full Version : No reboot would have been better...


Panda_Kahn_fan
08-29-2017, 01:10 PM
Okay, looking back on the joke that was the platinum Dunes movies, I wonder if they shouldn't have done a movie like the IMAGI TMNT film; one that started from a point that could've been after the TMNT films already met. Not a direct sequel to the original films, but one starting with the Shredder's return after his last death/defeat, then introducing all the characters people wanted to see, like Bebop and rocksteady. Get the OT movie people want out of the way, then take it down to the gritty level people some fans wanted.Should have gone this route, instead of another reboot?

neatoman
08-29-2017, 01:17 PM
Mmmmm, batter....
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/de/d2/8b/ded28b1c5a873c6a935234f50413656e.jpg

Andrew NDB
08-29-2017, 01:19 PM
Get the OT movie people want out of the way

Well thankfully they've already done that... torpedoing it in the process. Also thankfully.

I guess in hindsight I'm kind of really OK with what the PD films did. It put everything that's... not good about TMNT at large into a great big barrel of suck, then dropped it into the ocean.

We can't know what kind of TMNT movie will emerge next, but we do know it won't be like the PD movies.

AquaParade
08-29-2017, 01:30 PM
Well thankfully they've already done that... torpedoing it in the process. Also thankfully.

I guess in hindsight I'm kind of really OK with what the PD films did. It put everything that's... not good about TMNT at large into a great big barrel of suck, then dropped it into the ocean.

We can't know what kind of TMNT movie will emerge next, but we do know it won't be like the PD movies.

I agree. It's like swallowing something really nasty and forcing yourself to puke it up. It's over and for the better now. Hopefully studio exec's took notice.

Andrew NDB
08-29-2017, 01:51 PM
I agree. It's like swallowing something really nasty and forcing yourself to puke it up. It's over and for the better now. Hopefully studio exec's took notice.

Oh, they should. If there's one thing they understand it's a good, hard hit to their wallet.

Panda_Kahn_fan
08-30-2017, 09:25 AM
Mmmmm, batter....
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/de/d2/8b/ded28b1c5a873c6a935234f50413656e.jpg

Glad you like batter, but that has nothing to do what I was talking about. Now, what about the post itself?

(grr, I HATE making a post when I'm being rushed in real life...)

Panda_Kahn_fan
08-30-2017, 10:07 AM
Well thankfully they've already done that... torpedoing it in the process. Also thankfully.

I guess in hindsight I'm kind of really OK with what the PD films did. It put everything that's... not good about TMNT at large into a great big barrel of suck, then dropped it into the ocean.

We can't know what kind of TMNT movie will emerge next, but we do know it won't be like the PD movies.

Yeah, this is kindna what needed to be done. Those characters HAD to make it to the big screen, before anything else could be tried. I say that an OT-based film HAD to be made, to get those characters out of the way, before anything new could be tried. I just wonder if would've been better to do it in a one-and done film, but that's hindsight for ya...

neatoman
08-30-2017, 10:45 AM
Glad you like batter, but that has nothing to do what I was talking about. Now, what about the post itself?

(grr, I HATE making a post when I'm being rushed in real life...)

My actual opinion is more less what Andrew came with. The FW movie more or less already came in the form of OotS and it bombed, hopefully leading to a much better movie in the future or at least a different kind of movie.

d_osborn
08-30-2017, 10:48 AM
The huge bummer is that things were looking so positive with the John Fusco project, which took inspiration from the successes of Nolan's Batman Begins.

Andrew NDB
08-30-2017, 10:58 AM
The huge bummer is that things were looking so positive with the John Fusco project, which took inspiration from the successes of Nolan's Batman Begins.

I'd really, really love to read that one.

Panda_Kahn_fan
08-30-2017, 11:10 AM
The huge bummer is that things were looking so positive with the John Fusco project, which took inspiration from the successes of Nolan's Batman Begins.

Oh, how I wish the John Fusco film could be done as a reboot now... :(

pferreira
08-31-2017, 12:10 PM
My actual opinion is more less what Andrew came with. The FW movie more or less already came in the form of OotS and it bombed, hopefully leading to a much better movie in the future or at least a different kind of movie.OotS was NOT a FW movie. Sure it featured characters from the TV series but it was NOTHING like the 80s series. :o

plastroncafe
08-31-2017, 12:12 PM
I don't know that No Reboot would have been better.

If we want Hollywood to expand and explore other ideas, we have to give them room to fail...or otherwise not get it right sometimes.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
08-31-2017, 12:23 PM
I don't know that No Reboot would have been better.

If we want Hollywood to expand and explore other ideas, we have to give them room to fail...or otherwise not get it right sometimes.

Fair point.

If Batman & Robin hadn't failed, we wouldn't have gotten the Dark Knight Trilogy; if the Dark Knight Trilogy hadn't succeeded, (maybe) no Man of Steel or Batman V Superman...

You win some, you lose some.

RaphaelinSTL
09-04-2017, 10:55 AM
Oh, they should. If there's one thing they understand it's a good, hard hit to their wallet.

This.

Like you mentioned too ... one of the biggest positives from this current movie franchise's failure is that it will allow a necessary back to the drawing board.

Hopefully the franchise just lands with a writing and directing team that will see these characters as something much more than a means to easy catch.

I may not always like every Marvel movie ... but they're doing it right.

snake
09-04-2017, 11:18 AM
Fair point.

If Batman & Robin hadn't failed, we wouldn't have gotten the Dark Knight Trilogy; if the Dark Knight Trilogy hadn't succeeded, (maybe) no Man of Steel or Batman V Superman...

You win some, you lose some.

If Superman 4 hadn't failed, we wouldn't have gotten, uh, Superman Returns? And if that hadn't failed, we wouldn't have gotten....Man of Steel?

Superman really is not the best example here. :lol:

Krutch
09-05-2017, 09:42 AM
OotS was NOT a FW movie. Sure it featured characters from the TV series but it was NOTHING like the 80s series. :oYup. But people will see what they want to see :roll:

plastroncafe
09-05-2017, 11:58 AM
PD TMNT : TMNT :: Bay's Transformer : Transformers

Let's age this up, make everything EXTREME, and explody, for today's edgy sensibilities.

So yeah, it's a FW knockoff.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-05-2017, 01:12 PM
OotS was NOT a FW movie. Sure it featured characters from the TV series but it was NOTHING like the 80s series. :o

In which way is it nothing like the original series? It has:

*Shredder and Krang teaming up
*The Technodrome arriving to Earth through a portal
*Shredder mutating Bebop and Rocksteady

Andrew NDB
09-05-2017, 01:20 PM
In which way is it nothing like the original series? It has:

*Shredder and Krang teaming up
*The Technodrome arriving to Earth through a portal
*Shredder mutating Bebop and Rocksteady

*TMNT crazy about pizza.
*Lots of sight gags and slapstick humor
*April reporting stuff as a reporter.
*A pizza thrower (basically).
*Turtles only using their weapons on robot stuff.

On and on.

A dick joke in this middle doesn't yank it out of the Fred Wolf Zone™.

Krutch
09-05-2017, 01:32 PM
In which way is it nothing like the original series? It has:

*Shredder and Krang teaming up
*The Technodrome arriving to Earth through a portal
*Shredder mutating Bebop and Rocksteady
*Casey Jones, police officer hoping to make Detective one day...
*Vern “The Falcon” Fenwick, hero of the city…

Oh, wait...

The Deadman
09-05-2017, 01:33 PM
Yup. But people will see what they want to see :roll:

And we'll all be here to tell them they're wrong for seeing it :lol:

neatoman
09-05-2017, 01:47 PM
*TMNT crazy about pizza.
*Lots of sight gags and slapstick humor
*April reporting stuff as a reporter.
*A pizza thrower (basically).
*Turtles only using their weapons on robot stuff.

On and on.

A dick joke in this middle doesn't yank it out of the Fred Wolf Zone™.

Not to mention it feels like the pwople who wrote the script studied under David Wise.


The main plot should be about Shredder/Krang trying to get the Technodrome running.
They should more or less be be successful up until the very end when the Turtles pull something out of their ass.
Make sure there are at least two filler plotlines that lead nowhere and could easily be edited out.
The main conflict should be as generic and cliché as possible, doesn't matter if it's been used previously in the same continuity.
Make sure the character development is minor, the status quo has to be as close as possible to what it was at the start.

Panda_Kahn_fan
09-05-2017, 02:54 PM
Out of the Shadows is not the OT/Fred Wolf

Casey Jones the whiny detective is not Fred Wolf, Megan Fox as fan service April is not Fred Wolf, Serious unmasked shredder who just stands in the background and says or does nothing is not Fred wolf, Karai is not Fred Wolf, giant roided-out turtles are not Fred Wolf, and Vernon as a popular super-star is not Fred wolf.

If this movie is Fred wolf, where is the forth wall breaking? The self-referential humor? The comedic shredder? The shredder/Krang/Rocksteady bebop dysfunctional family? why is Raph a tough guy like all modern versions, instead of the sarcastic Rob Paulsen-style snarker? Why is Splinter a Rat who learned Ninjitsu from a book instead of a mutated Hamato Yoshi? Why isn't Casey Jones a dirty harry- styled nutjob who never takes his mask off? Why are the turtles friends with the cops? Why can't I remember Laura Linney's character from the cartoon?

It has some elements in common with the OT, but Out of the shadows is definitely not the OT.

Krutch
09-05-2017, 03:03 PM
Out of the Shadows is not the OT/Fred Wolf

Casey Jones the whiny detective is not Fred Wolf, Megan Fox as fan service April is not Fred Wolf, Serious unmasked shredder who just stands in the background and says or does nothing is not Fred wolf, Karai is not Fred Wolf, giant roided-out turtles are not Fred Wolf, and Vernon as a popular super-star is not Fred wolf.

If this movie is Fred wolf, where is the forth wall breaking? The self-referential humor? The comedic shredder? The shredder/Krang/Rocksteady bebop dysfunctional family? why is Raph a tough guy like all modern versions, instead of the sarcastic Rob Paulsen-style snarker? Why is Splinter a Rat who learned Ninjitsu from a book instead of a mutated Hamato Yoshi? Why isn't Casey Jones a dirty harry- styled nutjob who never takes his mask off? Why are the turtles friends with the cops? Why can't I remember Laura Linney's character from the cartoon?

It has some elements in common with the OT, but Out of the shadows is definitely not the OT.

This. I'd go as far to say that it borrows most from the Fred Wolf series compared to any other incarnation, but to say its one and the same is awfully short sighted.

Andrew NDB
09-05-2017, 03:06 PM
This. I'd go as far to say that it borrows most from the Fred Wolf series compared to any other incarnation, but to say its one and the same is awfully short sighted.

That's fair. Though conversely, it is also short-sighted to say it is nothing like the Fred Wolf series.

Krutch
09-05-2017, 03:36 PM
That's fair. Though conversely, it is also short-sighted to say it is nothing like the Fred Wolf series.Which is why I didn't say that. I literally just said it borrowed most from it.

If you want to hit the broad strokes, it's all there. Technodrome? Check. Bebop and Rocksteady? Check. Emphasis on slapstick humour? Check. But anyone even partially familiar with the cartoon would instantly see how off-base it is. Not a single personality lines up, and even the tone of the slapstick stuff is off. To say OOTS is a failure because of the FW stuff is completely unjustified when its not a true reflection of the content.

It's like saying the 2014 movie wasn't well received for all the Mirage stuff in there. The Turtles reveal themselves to April by rescuing her from trouble? Check. Karai assists Shredder in his plans to take over New York? Check. Rooftop fight with Shredder? Check. Yet all these points have so, so little (if any at all) resemblance to the source material that it's not reasonable to compare one way or the other.

myconius
09-05-2017, 03:56 PM
If Superman 4 hadn't failed, we wouldn't have gotten, uh, Superman Returns? And if that hadn't failed, we wouldn't have gotten....Man of Steel?

Superman really is not the best example here. :lol:

^ PWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! :lol:

*TMNT crazy about pizza.
*Lots of sight gags and slapstick humor
*April reporting stuff as a reporter.
*A pizza thrower (basically).
*Turtles only using their weapons on robot stuff.

On and on.

A dick joke in this middle doesn't yank it out of the Fred Wolf Zone™.

hey! don't forget about Vern 'the Falcon' Fenwick.

pferreira
09-07-2017, 01:37 PM
Yup. But people will see what they want to see :roll:People who never actually watched the original series yeah.

In which way is it nothing like the original series? It has:

*Shredder and Krang teaming up
*The Technodrome arriving to Earth through a portal
*Shredder mutating Bebop and RocksteadyStylistically and also in plot it had almost nothing to do with the Fred Wolf cartoon. You can't put elements of the 80s series into a movie and call it a faithful homage or a direct adaptation. That's just sounds stupid.

Out of the Shadows is not the OT/Fred Wolf

Casey Jones the whiny detective is not Fred Wolf, Megan Fox as fan service April is not Fred Wolf, Serious unmasked shredder who just stands in the background and says or does nothing is not Fred wolf, Karai is not Fred Wolf, giant roided-out turtles are not Fred Wolf, and Vernon as a popular super-star is not Fred wolf.

If this movie is Fred wolf, where is the forth wall breaking? The self-referential humor? The comedic shredder? The shredder/Krang/Rocksteady bebop dysfunctional family? why is Raph a tough guy like all modern versions, instead of the sarcastic Rob Paulsen-style snarker? Why is Splinter a Rat who learned Ninjitsu from a book instead of a mutated Hamato Yoshi? Why isn't Casey Jones a dirty harry- styled nutjob who never takes his mask off? Why are the turtles friends with the cops? Why can't I remember Laura Linney's character from the cartoon?

It has some elements in common with the OT, but Out of the shadows is definitely not the OT.This. This. All This. ;)

LeotheLateBloomer
09-07-2017, 02:52 PM
Stylistically and also in plot it had almost nothing to do with the Fred Wolf cartoon. You can't put elements of the 80s series into a movie and call it a faithful homage or a direct adaptation. That's just sounds stupid.

Unfortunately, those that only grew up watching FW (and the 90s films) and fell out of TMNT afterwards only seem to remember those elements specifically where they believe it's automatically a live action version of "what they remember".:roll: PD thought incorporating Krang, Rocksteady, Bebop, a lighter tone, the Turtle Van (garbage truck), and revealing themselves out in the open would bring in those fans and make them a lot more money.

Only problem is.......the first movie was awful and absolutely nothing like TMNT.

Krutch
09-07-2017, 03:03 PM
Only problem is.......the first movie was awful and absolutely nothing like TMNT.It's pretty amazing how atrocious that first film was. I'm legitimately still in awe about it. So many bad decisions were made... I get the feeling you could make a movie akin to The Disaster Artist about the making of that film.

neatoman
09-07-2017, 03:06 PM
Then there's also the matter of motive. The first one barely made enough money to justify a sequel, so the whole thing feels like an attempt to adress the most shallow criticism that was the easiest to fix.

There's really no point in denying that shoving all that **** (80% of which was created for the Turtlemania era) into the movie without proper set-up or payoff was nostalgia baiting, accurate or not, making it retroactively seem more like the cartoon was the point.

It's pretty amazing how atrocious that first film was. I'm legitimately still in awe about it. So many bad decisions were made... I get the feeling you could make a movie akin to The Disaster Artist about the making of that film.

It's bad but it's still the better of the two where it counts.