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Andrew NDB
09-05-2017, 12:49 PM
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02955/kim-the-interview_2955366b.jpg

Do you think it is an inevitability at this point? Do you think we should keep at them diplomatically and talk some more, or is it time for Trump's "fire and fury"?

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
09-05-2017, 12:52 PM
We need our nations to bond. Preferably over our mutual love of Katy Perry. Pre-"Miley Cyrus Makeover" Katy, of course.

The Deadman
09-05-2017, 12:53 PM
There's gonna come a time where one of those missiles he keeps shooting off is actually going to hit land, and the time for talking will be over.

IndigoErth
09-05-2017, 01:34 PM
I can't even guess at this point. I feel like it's two childish men waving their you-know-whats around at each other while citizens on either side are caught in the middle and at the mercy of whatever these idiots end up doing, which is unfortunate.

I feel for the average citizens in that CULT of a country that they didn't ask to be born into, and probably don't want this nonsense anymore than most over here in this one.

Honestly, as much as little Kimmy (and his relatives before him) love to parade around those missiles and whatnot, it's a wonder no one in their country has, to our knowledge, tried to stage anything that would, I dunno...cause some to explode in an effort to free their country?

If it does result in war at some point, I hope the surrounding countries jump them faster than we even can. Take out that so-called leader, their military, and any possible successors from his family or others who that "goverment" would try to put in power. Spare the citizens and let them rebuild a new way of life.

Powder
09-05-2017, 05:42 PM
If it does result in war at some point, I hope the surrounding countries jump them faster than we even can. Take out that so-called leader, their military, and any possible successors from his family or others who that "goverment" would try to put in power. Spare the citizens and let them rebuild a new way of life.

This.

My heart aches for those people, I hope that whatever happens will make it so they can finally know freedom & happiness.

snake
09-05-2017, 06:05 PM
It's gonna be f*cking nuts if China invades.

Utrommaniac
09-05-2017, 06:09 PM
Yeah, I'm also in the "take out the government" camp too. The civilians are suffering enough; they don't need to be caught in the crossfire of their "leaders" being taken down.

Andrew NDB
09-05-2017, 06:18 PM
It's gonna be f*cking nuts if China invades.

Invades who? Us? No way they care about North Korea that much. They may sanction the hell out of us and huff and puff, though... though even that depends on how it turns out. If it's just surgical strikes with no/little collateral damage in North Korea, I doubt they'd even do that.

ToTheNines
09-05-2017, 06:20 PM
I really really hope not. Countless innocent people are there who don't even know about the outside world.

Not saying I have the answer to this, but I hope there's no invasion or bombing. I don't think Un means business, so I hope we don't do something brash based on his probably hollow threats.

Andrew NDB
09-05-2017, 06:23 PM
I don't think Un means business, so I hope we don't do something brash based on his probably hollow threats.

Oh yes, they are 100% hollow... for now. But there would definitely come a time in the next 3 or 4 years, at North Korea's current level of missile deployment and tech, where they will develop the ability and tech to launch countermeasure-resistant nuclear missiles that can strike our coast. And then it might not be so hollow.

Katie
09-05-2017, 07:53 PM
My 2 cents which is worth about that.

Kim Jong Un has one motivation: to stay in power. I feel like he's pretty insecure about (or paranoid about) how the senior party members and military in DPRK see him. (As evidenced by the high level executions he's done)

He knows that no matter who the US president is, he'd get stomped pretty quick if he fired a missle, much less a nuke, at the US. He has been taken aback by Trump's angry rhetoric.

The thing is, he never wants to use those missle and be put out of power. He just wants to wave them around for his own people's sake and to prove he's tough to them. He'd be a fool to actually use them.

The WORST thing that could happen is if Trump actually starts something preemptively. That compells China to act because of treaties with DPRK and we definitely don't want to fight China.

The best thing is to leave the baby alone and let him bluster all he wants.

snake
09-05-2017, 07:56 PM
Invades who? Us? No way they care about North Korea that much. They may sanction the hell out of us and huff and puff, though... though even that depends on how it turns out. If it's just surgical strikes with no/little collateral damage in North Korea, I doubt they'd even do that.

They said they'll invade NK by september 11th if they suspect NK actually has the bomb.

http://www.trunews.com/article/if-north-korea-has-nuclear-icbm-china-will-invade-by-9-11

Mayhem
09-06-2017, 03:20 AM
To North Korea, the Korean war never ended, it's still going on, that's the end game really in his mind. To make sure not to lose that battle.

turtle1237
09-06-2017, 07:17 AM
I don't think we go to war with NK. To much is at stake, No one wants to see South Korea or Japan get nuke or missle in the process. But at the same time, I don't think much will change, NK will still try to push it to the edge short of war, and America will either opt for peace talks or put sanctions. The only way for a war to happen is if NK attacks one of our Allies, but China will intervene sooner or later on the side of the North as they did in the 1950's.

TurtleWA
09-06-2017, 12:20 PM
Seems like China might be the most powerful component in this entire mess. Most likely China likes to keep US distracted with NK and also doesn't want NK and SK united because then they would have another competitor.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/china-response-us-first-strike-north-korea-2017-3

The above article raises several points including "If China unilaterally denuclearized North Korea to head off a US strike, this would only vindicate that claim, and raise questions as to why China allowed North Korea to develop and export dangerous technologies and commit heinous human rights abuses." And that "China could bring forces into North Korea to act as a tripwire." You know, stuff that makes you shake your head.

A side note not directly related to the article: I'm not sure how debt works exactly when is comes to what the USA owes China. The U.S. debt to China is $1.102 trillion, as of May 2017. According to Google. I mean if China does not have the US back 100% could we not just say forget about ever seeing one cent of what we owe you?

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
09-06-2017, 12:25 PM
A side note not directly related to the article: I'm not sure how debt works exactly when is comes to what the USA owes China. The U.S. debt to China is $1.102 trillion, as of May 2017. According to Google. I mean if China does not have the US back 100% could we not just say forget about ever seeing one cent of what we owe you?

That's called crashing the national--if not global--economy, bubba. We try to avoid that.

plastroncafe
09-06-2017, 12:27 PM
Let's face it, whether we go to war with Korea depends on largely whether China will allow it.

Don't they have the largest standing army on earth right now?

1 China 2,333,000
2 United States 1,492,200
3 India 1,325,000
4 North Korea 1,190,000
http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/29-largest-armies-in-the-world.html

TurtleWA
09-06-2017, 12:38 PM
That's called crashing the national--if not global--economy, bubba. We try to avoid that.

Yeah I know zero about economics. I'll be the first to admit that. So it's not as simple as what I'm thinking most likely. I just figured if the US says to China no more money whatsoever, including debt payments and buying goods, China would hurt deeply. A war with dollars and not bullets. That might be more intimidating to some leaders than a nuke. Also less casualties.

The Deadman
09-06-2017, 12:39 PM
China's already said that if the US hits North Korea first, they're jumping in...but if North Korea hits us first, they're staying neutral.

plastroncafe
09-06-2017, 12:47 PM
Yeah I know zero about economics. I'll be the first to admit that. So it's not as simple as what I'm thinking most likely. I just figured if the US says to China no more money whatsoever, including debt payments and buying goods, China would hurt deeply. A war with dollars and not bullets. That might be more intimidating to some leaders than a nuke. Also less casualties.

Not doing business with China would hurt us more than it would hurt them.
We uh...don't exactly make a whole lot of stuff in the US anymore.

TurtleWA
09-06-2017, 12:59 PM
Not doing business with China would hurt us more than it would hurt them.
We uh...don't exactly make a whole lot of stuff in the US anymore.

We could start making what we need in the States if the time comes. And to offset the higher costs of American manufacturing have the debt payments that would have gone to China go to the wages/benefits of the US workers now making the products.

plastroncafe
09-06-2017, 01:03 PM
We could start making what we need in the States if the time comes. And to offset the higher costs of American manufacturing have the debt payments that would have gone to China go to the wages/benefits of the US workers now making the products.

That would be nice, wouldn't it?
But it won't happen, because we like our stuff cheap here, but we don't like working for the low wages one would have to pay to keep the retail cost down to say...Walmart levels.

TurtleWA
09-06-2017, 01:10 PM
That would be nice, wouldn't it?
But it won't happen, because we like our stuff cheap here, but we don't like working for the low wages one would have to pay to keep the retail cost down to say...Walmart levels.

This is just like a plan B or even plan D. If China decided to completely back NK. I think 1.1 trillion of money no longer going to China would be enough to keep retail prices down and pay US workers a living wage with nice benefits. But let's hope it doesn't come to anything like this. Let's hope everything can be worked out as peacefully and mutually beneficial for everyone.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
09-06-2017, 01:16 PM
Yeah I know zero about economics. I'll be the first to admit that. So it's not as simple as what I'm thinking most likely. I just figured if the US says to China no more money whatsoever, including debt payments and buying goods, China would hurt deeply. A war with dollars and not bullets. That might be more intimidating to some leaders than a nuke. Also less casualties.

Sad to say, it is not.

The good news is, China likes buying on credit as much as the US does. Uncle Sammie ain't the only nation with a ton of debt.

Andrew NDB
09-06-2017, 01:53 PM
North Korea's EMP threat:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/understanding-north-koreas-emp-threat_us_59ae115de4b0bef3378cdad9

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
09-06-2017, 01:59 PM
North Korea's EMP threat:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/understanding-north-koreas-emp-threat_us_59ae115de4b0bef3378cdad9

Yeah. That's a thing.

We've known about this vulnerability for how many years now, and we've done what to overcome it?

plastroncafe
09-06-2017, 02:00 PM
Yeah. That's a thing.

We've known about this vulnerability for how many years now, and we've done what to overcome it?

For the same reason Houston's underwater and our bridges are falling apart:

Because there's no money to be made in infrastructure improvements.

Andrew NDB
09-06-2017, 02:02 PM
We've known about this vulnerability for how many years now, and we've done what to overcome it?

I'd like to believe quite a bit, but they just don't publicize it for worry of enemies developing newer tech to counter the counters.

But I really have no idea.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
09-06-2017, 02:09 PM
I'd like to believe quite a bit, but they just don't publicize it for worry of enemies developing newer tech to counter the counters.

But I really have no idea.

See, that's what I'd like to think, too...

For the same reason Houston's underwater and our bridges are falling apart:

Because there's no money to be made in infrastructure improvements.

... but because of THIS, nobody ever wanting to approve tax dollars for infrastructure repair/improvement, I don't feel very confident in it.

Katie
09-06-2017, 05:04 PM
...and if we did start manufacturing again the cost of produced goods would skyrocket and price a whole bunch of working class and lower folks out of those nifty things China makes.



Edit: damnit! I was 4 hours too late on my reply. Damn work and damn my not paying attention that there was a page 2

MsMarvelDuckie
09-06-2017, 05:25 PM
Quote: Plastron Cafe:

"We uh, dont exactly make a lot of stuff in the US anymore."


But, but.... Wasn't Trump going to fix that? Oh wait. Never mind.....

Prowler
09-06-2017, 10:16 PM
I hope no nuclear weapons are dropped. Plus, it'd affect South Korea. I have a South Korean friend and I don't want him to die... and so would millions of other innocent people, obviously.

Anyway, North Korea pulls this **** often in order to blackmail other nations. This time they're really pushing the limits, though.

Andrew NDB
09-14-2017, 06:29 PM
So North Korea launched another missile over Japan AGAIN, just a few minutes ago, and this is the coverage it gets:

http://www.highlander-community.com/Untitled-2.jpg

Prowler
09-14-2017, 06:34 PM
Tbh every time North Korea pulls something like this nothing happens in the end. It's just their way of saying "look at me". It's like the boy who cries wolf over 9000 times.

Andrew NDB
09-14-2017, 06:36 PM
Sure, but the only thing that worries me about all of this is... what exactly is the incentive for us NOT to be shooting down these missiles every time they're launched, if we can? Why even let them get to Japan? We don't know how far they'll go or what's in them, and displaying our ability to shoot them down would do a lot to dissuade Kim. I worry they've sold us on a false sense of security that we can and would shoot them down.

ToTheNines
09-14-2017, 06:49 PM
Sure, but the only thing that worries me about all of this is... what exactly is the incentive for us NOT to be shooting down these missiles every time they're launched, if we can? Why even let them get to Japan? We don't know how far they'll go or what's in them, and displaying our ability to shoot them down would do a lot to dissuade Kim. I worry they've sold us on a false sense of security that we can and would shoot them down.

Warhead defense missiles are EXTREMELY expensive and currently finite. But I've personally installed missile triangulating radars all over D.C. with my company. The technology exists, I guess we just haven't felt the need to flex that muscle yet.

Katie
09-14-2017, 09:50 PM
Sure, but the only thing that worries me about all of this is... what exactly is the incentive for us NOT to be shooting down these missiles every time they're launched, if we can? Why even let them get to Japan? We don't know how far they'll go or what's in them, and displaying our ability to shoot them down would do a lot to dissuade Kim. I worry they've sold us on a false sense of security that we can and would shoot them down.

We really don't need to display that we can shoot missles down. They know we can already. So does China, which is why they are so agitated about our missle defense systems in the area.

Again, Kim's motivation is 100% to stay in power and prove is mettle to the DPRK people and party. I think there's some internal power struggling going on there. But the bottom line is that he doesn't have enough missles/nukes to destroy us, he wants to stay in power, he knows if he fires at us we will destroy him.

His only tiny hope is that he somehow gets us to make the first attack which compels China to act. We do not want that. I hope to God Trump has rational people explaining this to him. The worst thing we could EVER do is make the first attack.

Shoot missles into the water. Who cares. Let him bluster.

snake
09-14-2017, 10:00 PM
Damn, Kim really hates the ocean.

Andrew NDB
09-19-2017, 10:36 PM
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-north-korea-un-speech-destroy-kim-jong-un-us-threat-nuclear-a7955631.html

"Trump vows to totally destroy North Korea if it threatens US."

I don't believe for one moment that Trump would dare nuke North Korea but it will be very interesting to see Kim's response. Every response so far has been threats... is this Kim's last chance?

CyberCubed
09-19-2017, 10:43 PM
I think Trump actually believes he can just drop an Atom bomb or two right in the middle of North Korea like we did to Japan in World War II. Except this time nobody is going to tolerate millions of innocents wiped out in the blast, not to mention the millions who would die of radiation poisioning in the following weeks.

On top of that any bombing there would fallout to South Korea since it's right next to it. They would essentially be harming one of our allies as well.

Prowler
09-19-2017, 11:48 PM
I think Trump actually believes he can just drop an Atom bomb or two right in the middle of North Korea like we did to Japan in World War II. Except this time nobody is going to tolerate millions of innocents wiped out in the blast, not to mention the millions who would die of radiation poisioning in the following weeks.

On top of that any bombing there would fallout to South Korea since it's right next to it. They would essentially be harming one of our allies as well.
Yeah even if Trump was crazy and stupid enough to think that would be a good idea, I'm sure people who have his ear are not and will tell him to stay put.

TurtleWA
09-20-2017, 02:14 AM
Totally destroying NK doesn't necessarily mean with nukes. I'm sure the generals in charge update the president with the most current and up to date warfare techniques. We could go in with a cyber assault or EMP like in first link. Side note: video in second link shows testing of ICBM intercept test. The US has got this covered without nukes.

http://mil-embedded.com/news/raytheon-emp-missile-tested-by-boeing-usaf-research-lab/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.space.com/37048-missile-intercept-system-test-boeing-success.html

Prowler
09-20-2017, 02:54 AM
Is invading North Korea even a wise idea? I mean, do they know the terrain or what kind of arsenal that country really possesses?

Also, I don't think anyone would gain much from invading NK and putting an end to that dictatorship. I don't think South Koreans, the Chinese and the Japanese are interested in taking in millions of refugees.

Katie
09-20-2017, 06:45 AM
Knowing the terrain is not a problem. There was a war there previously and we have sattelites.

The main problem with an invasion is China. Which was exactly the problem in the Korean war. We can't fight China. It would be horrible.

Sumac
09-20-2017, 08:57 AM
Is invading North Korea even a wise idea?
No.
Because, after Kim Fatty Fat goes down the drain, you need to deal with several millions of hungry brainwashed people and outdated infrastructure. Not to mention most likely destruction of Seul.

This the sole reason why NK is still existing - no-one wants to sort this mess.

CyberCubed
09-20-2017, 04:52 PM
Most likely South Korea would take over the North if their government and leaders were able taken care of. Then Korea would be unified as one country again.

Andrew NDB
09-20-2017, 05:15 PM
Is invading North Korea even a wise idea? I mean, do they know the terrain or what kind of arsenal that country really possesses?

Also, I don't think anyone would gain much from invading NK and putting an end to that dictatorship. I don't think South Koreans, the Chinese and the Japanese are interested in taking in millions of refugees.

We wouldn't need to send even one boot on the ground until after we tactical missile strike every military outpost, staging area, fort, etc..

TurtleWA
09-20-2017, 05:56 PM
We wouldn't need to send even one boot on the ground until after we tactical missile strike every military outpost, staging area, fort, etc..

And maybe one of these mothers on rocket mans front door.
https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/middleeast/100000005043219/moab-mother-of-all-bombs-afghanistan.html

Redeemer
09-20-2017, 06:19 PM
My 2 cents which is worth about that.

Kim Jong Un has one motivation: to stay in power. I feel like he's pretty insecure about (or paranoid about) how the senior party members and military in DPRK see him. (As evidenced by the high level executions he's done)

He knows that no matter who the US president is, he'd get stomped pretty quick if he fired a missle, much less a nuke, at the US. He has been taken aback by Trump's angry rhetoric.

The thing is, he never wants to use those missle and be put out of power. He just wants to wave them around for his own people's sake and to prove he's tough to them. He'd be a fool to actually use them.

The WORST thing that could happen is if Trump actually starts something preemptively. That compells China to act because of treaties with DPRK and we definitely don't want to fight China.

The best thing is to leave the baby alone and let him bluster all he wants. I agree with a lot of what you said Katie. He has been exciting senior staff members and members of his own family who might oppose his rule. I also agree that he doesn't want to launch a full scale war either, bc he would lose power. But then again look at what Sadam Husain did.

Let's face it, whether we go to war with Korea depends on largely whether China will allow it.

Don't they have the largest standing army on earth right now?


http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/29-largest-armies-in-the-world.html

Wow I didn't think our army was that large! Should have known better :lol: Numbers is not everything though, but still I would rather not go to war with a Nuclear power.

Not doing business with China would hurt us more than it would hurt them.
We uh...don't exactly make a whole lot of stuff in the US anymore.
I don't agree. We are the #2 Exporting Nation in the world behind China of course.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/264623/leading-export-countries-worldwide/
China economy has already been trending down while the U.S. is Trending up, also I believe we are China #1 importer. So if we closed off trade with them I think China's economy would collapse. Also the U.S. dollar is the Global Currency still. I think we could crush China Economically with sanctions. I think our economy would suffer some, but not like China.

Hopefully North Korea can be dealt with a peaceful resolution.