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View Full Version : What wrong with ninja 'magic' for the TMNT?


Panda_Kahn_fan
09-06-2017, 11:27 AM
You know, I noticed a lot of people are upset whenever the idea of the turtles having any 'mystical' ninja abilities are present- like the Ninja tribunal season, or Next year's 'rise of the TMNT' cartoon series, and I really don't' get that. Ninja have been using magical abilities, like the nine characters of the Kuji-kiri, since the beginning of their appearance in Edo fiction. So I don't get why people get upset when the TMNT aren't using entirely 'real' ninja techniques. ( 'real' ninja- in a tmnt context, I can't even type that phrase with a straight face :lol: )

I don't see the problem with the upcoming incarnation of TMNT having ninja powers. I've always wanted a version of turtles where they could do shinobi techniques (jutsu) like running on water, disguise themselves as other people or objects in a puff of smoke, make illusion copies of themselves, and use elemental powers with their attacks. Ninja have been doing that sort of thing in Japanese movies, anime, manga and books for years; even dark and serious ninja stories. Why do people have a problem with the TMNT using mystical ninja techniques, when they've been a part of ninja folklore in japan since the beginning?

Anyway, I hope next year' 'rise of the TMNT' brings us an incarnation of the turtles that use the mystical kuji-kiri symbols.

Andrew NDB
09-06-2017, 11:42 AM
I guess I don't have a problem with "ninja magic" as a concept for the TMNT as long as it's not a thing that gets too carried away. I mean, I have no problem with Foot Mystics out there doing magic.

newfan
09-06-2017, 11:46 AM
I guess I don't have a problem with "ninja magic" as a concept for the TMNT as long as it's not a thing that gets too carried away. I mean, I have no problem with Foot Mystics out there doing magic.

Yes and also the mention of magic in a show with a 'younger feel' concerns me a little :)

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
09-06-2017, 12:15 PM
I guess I don't have a problem with "ninja magic" as a concept for the TMNT as long as it's not a thing that gets too carried away. I mean, I have no problem with Foot Mystics out there doing magic.

Or some astral projection warfare.

But when things go full "Ninja Tribunal / anime", I'm out. Balance.

CyberCubed
09-06-2017, 12:19 PM
Their powers in Ninja Tribunal only really lasted 5 episodes, and it was just for one arc so I didn't mind it.

plastroncafe
09-06-2017, 12:22 PM
If the show is going to have mysticism, or mystical elements, then it needs to be built into the world from stage one.

New York in my mind isn't a mystical place. It's just a place with a whole lot of people in it.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-06-2017, 01:03 PM
This thread reminded me of that ridiculous moment from the tmnt OVA when Splinter deflected a spirit bomb using his fingers, straight out of DragonBall Z.

Splinter the boss
09-06-2017, 01:34 PM
shinobi techniques (jutsu) like running on water, disguise themselves as other people or objects in a puff of smoke, make illusion copies of themselves, and use elemental powers with their attacks. Ninja have been doing that sort of thing in Japanese movies, anime, manga and books for years;
Naruto fan?

Panda_Kahn_fan
09-06-2017, 01:40 PM
Naruto fan?

Jutsu is NOT just a Naruto term, it is an actual Japanese tern that means 'technique'.

IndigoErth
09-06-2017, 01:42 PM
And then people turn their noses up at PD being magically bulletproof and Raph deflecting them really weirdly...

I guess it's kind of the same reasoning for me. I just prefer a more down to earth TMNT. There's already been plenty of other (non TMNT) shows with silly powers and junk. The ninja tribunal stuff is fun in a way, for a late series thing for one season, but it's not what I want for an entire series. (And at least in that one they appeared to lose the powers after the final battle in that arc.) I mean if you're just going to have powers, then why even be ninjas... Risking a lot of Mary Sue territory. I prefer the Turtles having to work hard for all they have and do and within the confines of how life works on planet Earth; deep down not really all that different than the humans they live alongside.

Splinter the boss
09-06-2017, 01:52 PM
Jutsu is NOT just a Naruto term, it is an actual Japanese tern that means 'technique'.
I was referring to all the other things you said. Look at what i quoted.


Anyway, I wouldn't mind magic as long as it's done properly and the people don't get carried away

Panda_Kahn_fan
09-06-2017, 02:02 PM
And then people turn their noses up at PD being magically bulletproof and Raph deflecting them really weirdly...

I guess it's kind of the same reasoning for me. I just prefer a more down to earth TMNT. There's already been plenty of other (non TMNT) shows with silly powers and junk. The ninja tribunal stuff is fun in a way, for a late series thing for one season, but it's not what I want for an entire series. I mean if you're just going to have powers, then why even be ninjas... Risking a lot of Mary Sue territory. I prefer the Turtles having to work hard for all they have and do and within the confines of how life works on planet Earth; deep down not really all that different than the humans they live alongside.

The problem is.. these 'silly powers' have always been a part of ninja folklore and storytelling, Ninja techniques are supposed to blur the line between martial arts and 'magic'. Ninjas without powers are extremely rare in ninja fiction.

Panda_Kahn_fan
09-06-2017, 02:04 PM
I was referring to all the other things you said. Look at what i quoted.


Anyway, I wouldn't mind magic as long as it's done properly and the people don't get carried away

The other things aren't just Naruto, either. All those abilities (water walk, elemental powers, image duplicates, etc.) are traditional ninja 'magic tricks' from long before Naruto

Powder
09-06-2017, 02:12 PM
Naruto fan?

None of that was created/owned/popularized by Naruto. Ew.

CyberCubed
09-06-2017, 02:13 PM
What on earth is Naruto? I mean I know what it is, but since when did that series have any meaning?

PApagreg
09-06-2017, 02:18 PM
None of that was created/owned/popularized by Naruto. Ew.
The popularized part is debatable.

What on earth is Naruto? I mean I know what it is, but since when did that series have any meaning?
Since like 2005

OT, I personally prefer my turtles to be more down to earth, I'm personally okay with spirit projections and advance technology but I sort of draw the line when it comes to walking on water or summoning giant toads.

neatoman
09-06-2017, 02:21 PM
What on earth is Naruto? I mean I know what it is, but since when did that series have any meaning?

Not sure what you mean, do you mean impact or relevance?

IndigoErth
09-06-2017, 02:24 PM
The problem is.. these 'silly powers' have always been a part of ninja folklore and storytelling, Ninja techniques are supposed to blur the line between martial arts and 'magic'. Ninjas without powers are extremely rare in ninja fiction.
I don't care if they tap into folklore, if it looks at real life behind it, but not fiction... But the Turtles already kind of touch on that stuff with various tricks of the trade already via cunning skills, not actual unearthly magic.

CyberCubed
09-06-2017, 02:34 PM
Not sure what you mean, do you mean impact or relevance?

I know what the show/manga is, but I just don't get what the point is. It always came across as a faux-Dragonball Z successor that only became successful because of a new bunch of young teens in the early 2000's needed another fighting shonen fix.

Naruto was "after my time" as I was already 20 by the time it started, so I never got into it.

ProphetofGanja
09-06-2017, 02:40 PM
I know what the show/manga is, but I just don't get what the point is. It always came across as a faux-Dragonball Z successor that only became successful because of a new bunch of young teens in the early 2000's needed another fighting shonen fix.

Naruto was "after my time" as I was already 20 by the time it started, so I never got into it.

It's the Dragonball Z for a generation younger than you. People grow up with different things.

"Back in my day we had to walk to school in the snow, and it was uphill both ways! You kids today with your smartphones and your hoverboards don't know how hard we had it! My childhood was more valid than yours! Wah!" :lol:

CyberCubed
09-06-2017, 04:39 PM
I also think it's Avatar that had the anime influences in the 2k3 series Season 5.

Avatar came out in 2005, which is likely around the time they were scripting Season 5 of the 4kids series. So you had character with elemental powers in that show and it was very similar to the stuff in TMNT.

Anime took over American cartoons for a while in the early 2000's, same reason Teen Titans was done with anime-esque art style rather than the other DC cartoons at the time.

ProphetofGanja
09-06-2017, 05:20 PM
I just hope that the mystic ninja powers are cool in the new show, and not stupid or lame... (that's too much to hope for, I know)

CyberCubed
09-06-2017, 05:38 PM
I imagine they'll be based on the usual elements that every series/videogame does, (fire, water, electricity, wind, earth, etc).

Andrew NDB
09-06-2017, 05:42 PM
I imagine they'll be based on the usual elements that every series/videogame does, (fire, water, electricity, wind, earth, etc).

God... you think it'll be some hackneyed thing like each Turtle being assigned an element? Raph will be Fire, etc., etc.? Eugh...

IndigoErth
09-06-2017, 05:54 PM
Has there already been something said about magic gems, or is that just my fears and seeing too much fan art like that? I can't recall...

This talk of magic stuff, I keep now worrying that they'll one day end up like some Sailor Moon/Power Rangers crossbreed. (To randomly throw together two shows I'm not really familiar with outside of old commercials.)

ToTheNines
09-06-2017, 05:59 PM
I imagine they'll be based on the usual elements that every series/videogame does, (fire, water, electricity, wind, earth, etc).

You forgot "science".

PApagreg
09-06-2017, 06:26 PM
You forgot "science".
Science isn't really one of the fictional element

God... you think it'll be some hackneyed thing like each Turtle being assigned an element? Raph will be Fire, etc., etc.? Eugh...
It would probably
Raph-Fire
Leo-Water
Don-Earth
Mikey-Air

ToTheNines
09-06-2017, 06:38 PM
Shut the fu*k up Donnie. You're out of your element.

ProphetofGanja
09-06-2017, 09:30 PM
I hope to god they don't do some stupid "elemental magic" thing. If they all have just a few superhuman abilities, nothing too OP, then it could be alright. I wouldn't mind seeing the Turtles do some Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon type ish

Shut the fu*k up Donnie. You're out of your element.

lmao :lol:

Prowler
09-06-2017, 09:36 PM
It's the Dragonball Z for a generation younger than you. People grow up with different things.

"Back in my day we had to walk to school in the snow, and it was uphill both ways! You kids today with your smartphones and your hoverboards don't know how hard we had it! My childhood was more valid than yours! Wah!" :lol:
Actually, I hear that being attributed to One Piece more, since Oda is a big fan of DBZ and Toriyama. One Piece being the modern version of DBZ... although OP has been airing since 1999 and the manga has been ongoing since 1996 now.

But ofc Naruto can also be compared since it's another long as hell shounen anime and had a lot of popularity among generations who were too young to remember DBZ.

CyberCubed
09-07-2017, 01:19 AM
But ofc Naruto can also be compared since it's another long as hell shounen anime and had a lot of popularity among generations who were too young to remember DBZ.

I admit, I have no idea what the most popular show is nowadays that today's kids/teens are into.

It seems the only popular franchises now are just old franchises that get reboots or new iterations. Hell we have Dragonball Super as an example, the first new Dragonball series in 18 years. We have new TMNT cartoons one after the other. We get new Batman, Spiderman, etc. cartoons regularly. Legend of Korra was a sequel to Avatar. Old shows that go on forever like Simpsons, Pokemon, Spongebob, etc. are all still around.

I can't think of any other breakout new franchise in the last couple of years that isn't part of an already established franchise or new series.

Powder
09-07-2017, 01:29 AM
Oh look, it's another Cybercubed Wants You To Know He Feels Old thread.

Candy Kappa
09-07-2017, 04:48 AM
I prefer the Turtles to be less magical and more skilled. I really have no interest seeing the Turtles run on water or turn into a giant toad or a snake.

Most of Ninja magic is just exaggerations on plausible techniques anyway. Walking on water is just a Ninja using mizugumo, invisibility is just a ninja that's good at hiding and turning into a toad is... I donno.

We've already seen limited usage of Kuji-Kiri and near supernatural usage of smoke bombs, and technically we've seen Yojutsu in use whenever the Turtles hides in plain sight as dressing up as people and walking the streets.

Metalwolf
09-07-2017, 04:57 AM
I guess it's kind of the same reasoning for me. I just prefer a more down to earth TMNT. There's already been plenty of other (non TMNT) shows with silly powers and junk. The ninja tribunal stuff is fun in a way, for a late series thing for one season, but it's not what I want for an entire series. (And at least in that one they appeared to lose the powers after the final battle in that arc.) I mean if you're just going to have powers, then why even be ninjas... Risking a lot of Mary Sue territory. I prefer the Turtles having to work hard for all they have and do and within the confines of how life works on planet Earth; deep down not really all that different than the humans they live alongside.




OT, I personally prefer my turtles to be more down to earth, I'm personally okay with spirit projections and advance technology but I sort of draw the line when it comes to walking on water or summoning giant toads.

I am also going to say I like the 'down to earth' stuff too. There is already a fantastical element of mutants and ninja clans fighting in a big city, do we really need a generous helping of magic woo thrown in too? 'Ninja magic' just seems like it's going to be an easy cop out like how they are doing with Nick!April, because instead of having her just having some heightened intuition and being some sort of empath (and still remaining relatively down to earth, even with these) she just keeps growing in power and is already far into Mary Sue territory, 'developing' new powers as the plot demands. Will this happen to the Turtles? Will they basically start out 'small' and be at borderline god levels when the series is about over? They are doing a sucky job with April, what will change when it's four Turtles instead?

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-07-2017, 10:09 AM
If the majority of fictional ninjas use mystic powers, the turtles are even more unique by not using it.

pferreira
09-07-2017, 12:55 PM
I guess the problem with magic has more to do with the genre it comes from. TMNT is very sci-fi based people love it for that. But with magic it's less tangible than something tech based so it's more difficult to relate to. Superman has similar problems.

DestronMirage22
09-07-2017, 11:53 PM
This thread reminded me of that ridiculous moment from the tmnt OVA when Splinter deflected a spirit bomb using his fingers, straight out of DragonBall Z.

Ridiculous?
Hmph.
Hey man, that OVA was great.
( ˃̶͈ ̯ ̜ ˂̶͈ˊ )

FredWolfLeonardo
09-08-2017, 12:02 AM
Ridiculous?
Hey man, that OVA was great.
( ˃̶͈ ̯ ̜ ˂̶͈ˊ )

I'm not saying I don't like it :)

Shark_Blade
09-08-2017, 12:17 AM
Keep magic away from TMNT. It's not enough they are mutants, now they're magic? :roll:

DestronMirage22
09-08-2017, 12:18 AM
I'm not saying I don't like it :)

Just kidding around. :P

I can see why some fans don't like it though. Not everybody's a fan of anime (though I imagine it'd be much cooler if they were) and those OVA episodes were filled with usual anime tropes. Plus, I'm sure seeing the TMNT transform into big dudes with new powers weirded out a lot of folks. :lol:
I imagine any new versions that try that kind of stuff would receive about the same response.

newfan
09-08-2017, 01:09 AM
I like the turtles having their skills, as some have posted already. Mystical magic is okay if it is discreet, something that they use to compliment their skills rather than be something that makes them, if that makes any sense.
With kids shows having a lot of magic and characters with powers (which works for some shows of course) I just hope they don't make it too much.

Splinter the boss
09-08-2017, 03:24 PM
It's the Dragonball Z for a generation younger than you. People grow up with different things.


I respectfully disagree, Naruto cannot be compared to Dragon Ball in any way, shape, or form. They're two totally different things. I've always disliked Dragon Ball, it's too unrealistic. I'm not saying Naruto is realistic, but the idea that pretty much all Dragon Ball characters are world destroyers disgusts me. That's why no other characters from other universes can be placed with Dragon Ball characters in a battle scenario.

Candy Kappa
09-08-2017, 03:35 PM
It's being compared as the 'it' thing for a younger generation much like what Dragonball was for a older generation, not for being similar shows (which they kinda are anyway). It's even right there in the post you quoted...

FredWolfLeonardo
09-08-2017, 03:54 PM
That's why no other characters from other universes can be placed with Dragon Ball characters in a battle scenario.

Superman and Saitami say hi :P

CyberCubed
09-08-2017, 04:29 PM
I respectfully disagree, Naruto cannot be compared to Dragon Ball in any way, shape, or form. They're two totally different things. I've always disliked Dragon Ball, it's too unrealistic. I'm not saying Naruto is realistic, but the idea that pretty much all Dragon Ball characters are world destroyers disgusts me.

Dragonball isn't supposed to be realistic. It takes place on a fantasy earth with talking animals, dinosaurs, and people who can jump into the air and shoot energy beams from their hands. Akira Toriyama is a master storyteller and the original Dragonball manga became a smash hit for a reason. The anime is bogged down with filler during the fights but the manga doesn't have that problem.

Also even though everyone in Dragonball can destroy planets after a point, it doesn't really matter. Characters control their power levels so they don't accidentally blow up the planet they're on. There's actually good story telling all throughout the series and most of the main cast are likeable and enjoyable.

Andrew NDB
09-08-2017, 04:37 PM
"Ninja magic" like that in the opening scene of "Ninja Assassin" would be pretty cool.

155Ps_q0SUw

MsMarvelDuckie
09-08-2017, 05:42 PM
That was such an awesome movie. I think if they toned down the bloodshed a bit it could work for TMNT too.

dragonside
09-08-2017, 05:47 PM
i like the ninja magic actually.

Given the mythology in Japan, we saw some of that in the battle nexus season in TMNT 2K3 and then also blown out of the sky with the ninja tribunal.

I think it gives TMNT variety, having magic & science fiction exist. Its great in terms of building a diverse universe.

Andrew NDB
09-08-2017, 05:47 PM
That was such an awesome movie. I think if they toned down the bloodshed a bit it could work for TMNT too.

I remember not liking the ending very much but it was a lot of fun.


I think it gives TMNT variety, having magic & science fiction exist. Its great in terms of building a diverse universe.

It's one thing if magic exists (I don't think there's any TMNT universe where it doesn't), it's another if the TMNT are actively using it themselves.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-08-2017, 05:50 PM
I'm fine with the turtles facing off against magical beings and using their ninja skills to overcome impossible odds but not the turtles using magic themselves, atleast not excessively.

ProphetofGanja
09-08-2017, 09:15 PM
If the Turtles don't get their letters to Hogwarts in the first episode of the new show I am going to unleash my fury like the power of a thousand suns

IndigoErth
09-09-2017, 02:20 PM
If the Turtles don't get their letters to Hogwarts in the first episode of the new show I am going to unleash my fury like the power of a thousand suns
:lol: Okay, lets just skip the next series and do the Hogwarts one instead. (Because now I want to know which house(?) they fit in, etc. lol)

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-09-2017, 02:45 PM
So, Donatello would question his owns abilities?

pferreira
09-14-2017, 09:25 AM
Plus, I'm sure seeing the TMNT transform into big dudes with new powers weirded out a lot of folks. :lol:
I imagine any new versions that try that kind of stuff would receive about the same response.See why people didn't respond to the mutations in the Red Sky era of the FW cartoon very well.

If the Turtles don't get their letters to Hogwarts in the first episode of the new show I am going to unleash my fury like the power of a thousand sunsAre you going to use the Force? :lol:

miru
09-18-2017, 04:59 PM
A good idea could be that there's an enemy force who are overly reliant on jutsu, and the cast must try and prove that their Ninja skill beats their jutsu.