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View Full Version : And 9/11 was already 16 years ago


Prowler
09-10-2017, 09:09 PM
That's right, 16 years ago the World Trade Center went down due to two hijacked Boeing airplanes. I remember watching the towers collapse live on TV when I was a kid. I was only 10 years old at the time and two days away from starting 6th grade(yes, I started school on a Thursday that year).

Where were you on 9/11? I remember waking up around lunch time or so and the 2nd or 3rd thing I've heard after my mother told me to wake up was that airplanes had hit two skyscrapers called WTC... two buildings I had never heard off before. I was like "well that's an unfortunate accident". Then I think I saw the first tower collapse live on TV as I was eating and my brother yelling at my mother who was in the kitchen atm "the tower just fell!". It was pretty surreal to see a building fall live on TV. Also, I saw this live on Portuguese TV, so obviously they weren't as emotionally affected by the whole ordeal as I assume American TV broadcasts were. I remember the correspondent saying "the tower fell" and the other guy was like "Right... I guess the same is likely to happen to the other one as well?"

So yeah my family watched it on tv all day and I believe we watched a football/soccer game later that night as well. Liverpool vs. Boavista. 1-1 and Silva celebrating Boavista's goal in a rather goofy manner. If it had been today I bet the media would sh*t all over him :lol:

So yeah, I know my story isn't particularly interesting, so I assume you guys have mote interesting stories since most of you are American and some of you are from NYC here. If you don't mind, care to share?

IndigoErth
09-10-2017, 09:14 PM
22, in college (taking a couple final courses at the campus near home), but was not a day I had class so I was still in bed that morning. My mom came and told me a short time after it happened. Luckily I missed seeing the second plane live.

Wasn't overly afraid of what was going on, but with no one entirely knowing everything, still slightly concerned since, as the crow flies, a straight path between NY and DC cuts right over my area. Just a little creepy. (Though after they stopped all air traffic for a while, that was strange seeing nothing as planes are common through here.)

Prowler
09-10-2017, 09:19 PM
22, in college (taking a couple final courses at the campus near home), but was not a day I had class so I was still in bed that morning. My mom came and told me a short time after it happened. Luckily I missed seeing the second plane live.

Wasn't overly afraid of what was going on, but with no one entirely knowing everything, still slightly concerned since, as the crow flies, a straight path between NY and DC cuts right over my area. Just a little creepy.
Tbh, as an 10 year old kid at the time, seeing the footage of people jumping off the windows to their death being constantly repeated was a quite uncomfortable sight to me.

Powder
09-10-2017, 09:19 PM
I'm from NY, I was in class, just starting my first year of middle school (6th grade, 10 years old). It didn't really resonate with me much, I didn't quite have the depth of understanding or emotional maturity to really grasp how serious an event it was. + I was going through my edgy punk phase, so I mostly cracked jokes about it, to be completely honest. I remember being jealous of other kids whose parents pulled them out of school early, as mine hadn't. Class wasn't really class, each period I went to had less & less students, they pretty much just let us chill & answered questions if we had any.

Had some concerns about my dad when I got home though, realizing he worked in that area. He had gotten in touch early on to let my mom know he was safe, but got home late, with suit/ash all over the hood of his car. He was lucky.

It'll probably seem messed up but what I recall best about 9/11 is that everyone in my house hogged the TV's, keeping up with live news coverage. I was super pissed off because I missed a decent chunk of Toonami, namely Dragonball Z, which had new episodes airing at the time. I couldn't understand why everyone was in a different room watching the same thing, just gather together around one, & let me have my anime on another! :tlol:

Prowler
09-10-2017, 09:29 PM
I'm from NY, I was in class, just starting my first year of middle school (6th grade, 10 years old). It didn't really resonate with me much, I didn't quite have the depth of understanding or emotional maturity to really grasp how serious an event it was. + I was going through my edgy punk phase, so I mostly cracked jokes about it, to be completely honest. I remember being jealous of other kids whose parents pulled them out of school early, as mine hadn't. Class wasn't really class, each period I went to had less & less students, they pretty much just let us chill & answered questions if we had any.

Had some concerns about my dad when I got home though, realizing he worked in that area. He had gotten in touch early on to let my mom know he was safe, but got home late, with suit/ash all over the hood of his car. He was lucky.

It'll probably seem messed up but what I recall best about 9/11 is that everyone in my house hogged the TV's, keeping up with live news coverage. I was super pissed off because I missed a decent chunk of Toonami, namely Dragonball Z, which had new episodes airing at the time. I couldn't understand why everyone was in a different room watching the same thing, just gather together around one, & let me have my anime on another! :tlol:
Well, it's not like I had the maturity to fully grasp what had just happened either.

Also, I remember being kinda depressed in the days previous to 9/11 because school was gonna start on September 13 and I really hated school as a kid. I was always sad when Summer break came to an end. Then 9/11 happens and I sorta forget about school starting two days later. It sure made my last two days of Summer break seem longer than what they actually were. Kinda odd to look back and think that 9/11 happened at the end of one of my childhood's Summer breaks now that I think about it. This was actually the year I remember starting school earlier than in any other year. Usually we'd start school between September 14 and 17. Starting school on a Thursday, who'd even think of that?! :lol:

I dunno if I played any video games on 9/11 or in the day after it. I remember some months later in Art class, a classmate of mine drew an airplane heading towards the WTC. I wonder if the teacher graded that kid or if she got upset at him :lol:

At home, when I played with my toys I also did similar things for a while. Stacking up a bunch of VHS cases to make it look like two skyscrapers and fly my toy airplanes into them.

I guess those attacks inspired lots of artists...

Utrommaniac
09-10-2017, 09:59 PM
I barely have memories of the day itself because I was in second grade at the time and spent it at school. Obviously we would have been told what was happening, but I don't remember.

What I DO remember was the first anniversary in 3rd grade, wherein we made a human hand-holding chain around the school and they played that goddamn "I'm Proud to Be an American" song on the PA system.

Definitely did not have the emotional maturity to understand it at the time either. I think the only part I cared about was that innocent people died in a malicious attack and not the socio-political aspects of it. And certainly did not partake in the Patriotism Gush that followed after it. Still haven't.

Prowler
09-10-2017, 10:06 PM
I barely have memories of the day itself because I was in second grade at the time and spent it at school. Obviously we would have been told what was happening, but I don't remember.

What I DO remember was the first anniversary in 3rd grade, wherein we made a human hand-holding chain around the school and they played that goddamn "I'm Proud to Be an American" song on the PA system.

Definitely did not have the emotional maturity to understand it at the time either. I think the only part I cared about was that innocent people died in a malicious attack and not the socio-political aspects of it. And certainly did not partake in the Patriotism Gush that followed after it. Still haven't.
Oh man, I remember when the Iraq War started and all seeing most American online defending it. 2003-2004 was more or less the time where I began talking to more people online and I found Americans to be raging blind patriots. I also remember Americans who were against the Iraq War being considered traitor and sh*t. That post-9/11 GOD BLESS MURRICA overt patriotism that lasted until about 2005 or so was so cringeworthy, man.

It's kinda funny how the whole world was weeping for USA after 9/11 happened and a couple of years later... you start seeing anti-American sentiment spreading all over the globe, even in Europe, a place where anti-American sentiment wasn't really a thing. I think that's when the whole Europeans finding Americans dumb and unrefined thing has started. It also coincided with the Internet getting bigger and bigger and Europeans getting in contact with Americans more easily than ever before.

Utrommaniac
09-10-2017, 10:08 PM
Ehhh, it's still sticking around in some places. Especially among the 60+ Bible Belt groups.

Prowler
09-10-2017, 10:09 PM
Ehhh, it's still sticking around in some places. Especially among the 60+ Bible Belt groups.
I believe you, but that's not the age bracket of Americans I'm exactly exposed to online. :P

mrmaczaps
09-10-2017, 10:18 PM
I was sleeping when it started.
Went to college class around 10 or 11, maybe noontime even. Class was cancelled but the school stayed open for ayone making the drive in and the students on campus... talked a bit about it...

Then went to my fiancees house and basically stared at the news there for most of the day.... most pubpic events up here were not cancelled until later in the day/afternoon. I think Godsmack or Disturbed was supposed to be doing a show that night and I had had tickets.... but they never rescheduled... and I got better taste in music anyways...

All those lives lost and we are no safer from terrorism or its cause now...

IndigoErth
09-10-2017, 10:31 PM
All those lives lost and we are no safer from terrorism or its cause now...
Sadly one of the dangers of being a social species with a worldwide population of billions. Hard to perfectly weed out all the awful, crazy ones who want to do awful things. :ohwell: Most of us, I would assume, just go about living hoping that most other humans around us don't mean us any harm... Don't really have any other choice.

Prowler
09-10-2017, 10:34 PM
Tbh terrorism was already a big issue years before 9/11. More people died of terrorists attacks in Europe back in the 70s and in the 80s than since 9/11. Difference is, back then the terrorists were committed by radical political organisations, usually far-left and far-right. But around the turn of the century the enemy became Islamic terrorism. And it's a lot easier to hate an enemy that is different from us in culture and religious beliefs.

DestronMirage22
09-10-2017, 10:41 PM
Believe it or not, I sometimes forget 9/11 happened.
If it weren't for threads like this or people reminding me, I'd never even think about it.

Prowler
09-10-2017, 10:43 PM
Believe it or not, I sometimes forget 9/11 happened.
If it weren't for threads like this or people reminding me, I'd never even think about it.
I usually don't remember it either. I just happened to remember this year for some reason.

Nowadays 9/11 has mostly become a conspiracy theorists meme.

MsMarvelDuckie
09-10-2017, 10:47 PM
My hubby and I were living with my grandmother at the time. We had only been married about a year and a half. I had slept on the living room sofa the night before because I wasn't feeling well and it was closer to the bathroom and was cooler. But he came in after waking up and turned on the tv, as he didn't work until later, and I was basically a housewife and part-time "mom" to my three cousins. I was barely awake, but I remember him saying "Whoa what movie is this?" when he saw the footage of the first plane hit. Then I looked at the tv and we both realized it was the news. Less than five minutes later the second plane hit. We watched the entire event unfolding, horrified, and saw the other two planes that hit the Pentagon and the one that the passengers fought back on to crash in Pennsylvania. It was one of the most horrific things I ever saw. Strangely enough, I have witnessed two other disasters as they happened- both the Challenger and Columbia shuttles crashing.

Prowler
09-10-2017, 10:50 PM
Since USA is so big, did people who live far from New York feel scared that day? I mean, Los Angles and NYC are what, as far as Portugal and Russia are from each other, more or less?

IndigoErth
09-10-2017, 10:54 PM
That one that went down in PA, that's the one that still chokes me up. I believe they were supposedly the only passengers that found out what was happening and that other planes had already hit in NYC and DC. I can't imagine the idea of them being on the phone with loved ones, literally having to say goodbye because they were going to take the plane down to stop it and save others. And I guess just close the blind on the windows and not watch the ground coming? So heartbreaking.

The thought of talking to someone on some plane that is going to die and you can't do anything to save them... Geeze. :tcry: Do you say goodbyes, I loves yous, and hang up? Or do you stay on until the connection goes dead...

Prowler
09-10-2017, 10:59 PM
That one that went down in PA, that's the one that still chokes me up. I believe they were supposedly the only passengers that found out what was happening and that other planes had already hit in NYC and DC. I can't imagine the idea of them being on the phone with loved ones, literally having to say goodbye because they were going to take the plane down. And I guess just close the blind on the windows and not watch the ground coming? So heartbreaking.
I think there are theories that no passenger revolt happened and that the plane was shot down by the US army while it was in mid-air still. But that's probably just another one of those 9/11 conspiracy theories. This one isn't so farfetched, however. I mean passengers revolting against hijackers and taking down the airplane themselves seems a bit like a movie thing. Maybe the pilots were dead by then and no one else knew how to pilot an airplane? Also, apparently that plane was headed towards either the Capitol or the White House.

9/11 was a huge security fail. The biggest one in USA's history. Especially considering the WTC had already been a target about a decade before. Although the M.O. of the terrorists was something completely never seen before.

MsMarvelDuckie
09-10-2017, 11:05 PM
Yeah that one still gets me too. I would like to think that I would have been one of those who stood up to stop it, even knowing what it would mean. But I'm not sure how I'd react to a conversation on the phone like that- having someone you love saying goodbye right before they force it down.....

No they really did revolt. There are the recordings of the conversations with the passengers. As for the pilots, it was the terrorists themselves who were flying it after killing the pilots IIRC. That one was supposedly headed for the White House, in an attempt to cripple the government in one blow.

Utrommaniac
09-10-2017, 11:08 PM
Since USA is so big, did people who live far from New York feel scared that day? I mean, Los Angles and NYC are what, as far as Portugal and Russia are from each other, more or less?

People were pulling their kids from their classes at my school, and that was in Texas. So yeah, alarm was all over the place.

Prowler
09-10-2017, 11:11 PM
People were pulling their kids from their classes at my school, and that was in Texas. So yeah, alarm was all over the place.
The only thing that was done here was doubling the security at airports as a preventive measure. It was done all over Europe. They put cops outside the airports only allowing you in if you were a passenger. People who had to go to the airport that day to pick up something stuck in customs didn't have much luck, from what I've heard. :lol:

MsMarvelDuckie
09-10-2017, 11:14 PM
Yeah we had a lot of business and school/government closings that day here in Texas and everywhere else.

Wildcat
09-10-2017, 11:38 PM
I was 17 or 18 at the time. I remember we had taken a trip a day or 2 before. Not in a plane. Just a couple hours drive from where we live. I had just gotten Crazy Taxi 2 on Dreamcast. I think I played it the night before. I usually sleep pretty late so I didn't know about anything until later from all the news on TV.

I wasn't overly scared or anything but creeped out because I didn't know exactly how going to war worked or if it was some invasion.

To be honest I don't like that it's brought up so much every year. There's always documentaries or tv specials coming on. It's a tad glorified now imo. Every September it's a thing. How much more can you say 10-16 years later?

Prowler
09-10-2017, 11:50 PM
I was 17 or 18 at the time. I remember we had taken a trip a day or 2 before. Not in a plane. Just a couple hours drive from where we live. I had just gotten Crazy Taxi 2 on Dreamcast. I think I played it the night before. I usually sleep pretty late so I didn't know about anything until later from all the news on TV.

I wasn't overly scared or anything but creeped out because I didn't know exactly how going to war worked or if it was some invasion.

To be honest I don't like that it's brought up so much every year. There's always documentaries or tv specials coming on. It's a tad glorified now imo. Every September it's a thing. How much more can you say 10-16 years later?
I don't think it's talked about as much as it was in the following 3-4 years after it happened, but I could be wrong.

Wildcat
09-11-2017, 12:13 AM
I don't think it's talked about as much as it was in the following 3-4 years after it happened, but I could be wrong.No you're right. Definitely not that much but still some. The History channel has rerun documentaries from recent years and a new one about everything leading up to it. I just think...is another tv special necessary?

Plus the movies that were made. Some not that long after.

Krutch
09-11-2017, 06:59 AM
I was in highschool in Canada at the time. Lots of schoolmates were in tears, others were developing their own conspiracies behind the whole thing before even the second tower fell. What I mostly remember was how little I felt, and how I wondered if something was wrong with me. So I played the part and pretended to be sad and stuff when really it just felt like another day to me.

Then I went home to celebrate my dads birthday but he didn't want to do anything but keep up on the news, so, I just stayed in my room and listened to music. I specifically remember listening to a Dark Lotus song where the chorus goes "Mass murder makes me happy! Dead Bodies make me happy!" and remember feeling a bit sick at it, so I turned it off. That small little act made me realize maybe I wasn't broken, and I went downstairs and watched the news with my dad for the rest of the night.

mrmaczaps
09-11-2017, 07:27 AM
Sadly one of the dangers of being a social species with a worldwide population of billions. Hard to perfectly weed out all the awful, crazy ones who want to do awful things. :ohwell: Most of us, I would assume, just go about living hoping that most other humans around us don't mean us any harm... Don't really have any other choice.

Yes and no. The problem is more people screaming to stop labeling scumbags, scumbags. I hope there isn't "bad guys" around, but when I'm out and about, I people watch. Its amazing how many people go about their day with their faces turned down at phones or otherwise oblivious to whats going on around them.

Tbh terrorism was already a big issue years before 9/11. More people died of terrorists attacks in Europe back in the 70s and in the 80s than since 9/11. Difference is, back then the terrorists were committed by radical political organisations, usually far-left and far-right. But around the turn of the century the enemy became Islamic terrorism. And it's a lot easier to hate an enemy that is different from us in culture and religious beliefs.

Islam isn't religion. Its an entire political system that includes the cult that passes for religion. It has to do with every single bit of their way of life and their laws. If you've ever read all or parts of their hellspawned book of evil....

Social media has also made communication near instant which most times doesn't help.... if you ever played that game as a kid where you sit in a circle and one person whispers a sentence to the kid next to them and then that person repeats in to the person next to them.... what gets back to the first person is never the same. Yet folks believe all of what they hear on the news, be it left leaning or right sometimes.

I'm also sure at least one person will be pissed off, raging mad at what I've written here... Never fails.

The good that came from 9/11 was a united America... at least for a time. It will happen again, people will die, again and then we will come together almost as before.

Storm Eagle
09-11-2017, 08:12 AM
Believe it or not, I sometimes forget 9/11 happened.
If it weren't for threads like this or people reminding me, I'd never even think about it.

I usually don't remember it either. I just happened to remember this year for some reason.



I don't see how anyone could forget. Now, I have a friend who has a birthday today. Unfortunately, she's one of those people who'll always remember it that way.

I was actually supposed to go to Manhattan that morning to turn in a job application. I wouldn't have been anywhere near the World Trade Center, but all that commotion still had an impact on how the trains were running. So I probably wouldn't have gotten back home for a long while.

Imagine flying on September 11th nowadays. I actually flew to Texas on that date in 2010, and from Florida back to New York in 2012. It was kind of trippy.

BubblyShell22
09-11-2017, 08:50 AM
I was a senior in high school when this happened. I had just walked into my Economics class and noticed the TV was on. I turned to my teacher and asked, "What's going on?" He answered, "A plane just hit the World Trade Center." We sat and watched the footage and saw the second plane hit. It was a devastating day for me and a year later, I had just started college and we had a memorial for it. I had to leave in the middle of it for class, but I remember crying throughout because I remember how sad it was. On the day it happened, we just sat and watched the news the whole day and didn't do any school work or anything.

The next day, my Econ teacher took us out and had us look up at the sky where no planes were flying.

I don't think this is something we will ever or should ever forget in our history. Terrorism will always be out there and has always been out there, but it has become more prevalent since Sept. 11.

mrmaczaps
09-11-2017, 12:34 PM
I don't see how anyone could forget. Now, I have a friend who has a birthday today. Unfortunately, she's one of those people who'll always remember it that way.

I was actually supposed to go to Manhattan that morning to turn in a job application. I wouldn't have been anywhere near the World Trade Center, but all that commotion still had an impact on how the trains were running. So I probably wouldn't have gotten back home for a long while.

Imagine flying on September 11th nowadays. I actually flew to Texas on that date in 2010, and from Florida back to New York in 2012. It was kind of trippy.

Imagine being the pilot of the plane that hit one of those buildings whose friend had seniority and bumped him from that flight, trading one life for another. Pastor at a church I attended a few times was supposed to fly that plane.... his buddy decided he wanted it the night before, or early that morning. Not sure which now... but to know you were supposed to be there but were spared...

DWC
09-11-2017, 02:11 PM
I was 19 and at home, had been out that morning to buy a CD, then fell asleep. I'm in Europe.

I just remember watching it that night on television then going to get the papers the next day. I was pretty distraught - honestly,. I think it's the thing that took away my innocence.

RIP to all those who lost their lives.

Wesley
09-11-2017, 03:29 PM
I was 15 in secondary school at that time. Didn't find out what had happened until I went home. I watched a bit of the attacks on news reports on tv, but didn't pay much attention to 9/11, to be honest, as it didn't really affect me. Remember watching the second last episode of Spiderman Unlimited on the same day. Didn't realise just how bad the attacks were until years later.

inaheap
09-11-2017, 03:59 PM
I came in just as the last tower fell. I was in college then but didn't have any classes that day, and worked afternoon so I slept in. I don't really remember being scared, just sad for all those lost/affected. I do remember others being scared though. It was sort of ominous not seeing any jet streams or planes in the sky. I remember watching that special they did a year or two ago about stopping all the planes. At the end it said they considered coming up with procedure for doing it again, but felt it would just inhibit the flight controllers ability to get it done.

plastroncafe
09-11-2017, 04:47 PM
Not until the manhunt following the Marathon Bombing had I ever heard Boston so quiet as it was that day.

We were under Code Triage, expecting an influx of wounded to arrive.

ProphetofGanja
09-11-2017, 05:33 PM
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21369216_1997820783771512_8111255646536212876_n.jp g?oh=79fcbb7974efd4339a8aefe21fd9ed32&oe=5A497B56

13 Questions for the U.S. Government on the Anniversary of 9/11 (https://wakeup-world.com/2016/09/11/13-questions-for-the-u-s-government-on-the-anniversary-of-911/)

BubblyShell22
09-11-2017, 05:38 PM
There's no footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon because there wasn't a camera crew there like there was for the WTC, but you saw the smoke from the blast and the wreckage of the plane in Shanksville.

Cure
09-11-2017, 05:48 PM
The pot head is a conspiracy theorist. Go figure.

ProphetofGanja
09-11-2017, 05:51 PM
The Catholic believes whatever authority figures tell him, go figure

Prowler
09-11-2017, 06:10 PM
I don't believe 9/11 was an inside job. They'd need to have tons of people on their payroll to keep it an eternal secret. Also, do you have any idea how many people and explosives you need to demolish rather short buildings? Imagine how many people and explosives you'd need to demolish two giant skyscrapers. They'd have to plan them for weeks and possibly months before doing it... and no one would notice a thing?

As for WTC7 collapsing, I think the explanation was that the debris of the two building near it and added fire damaged its structures or something like that. Might look strange but I'm not structural engineer.

Also, steal beams don't need to melt, all they have to do is weaken to bend. The WTC might have been designed with the possibility of plane crashes in mind, but back when it was designed airplanes like the ones that hit it didn't exist yet. Not to mention they didn't crash into the buildings by accident. No one in the 60s-70s or whenever the buildings were originally projected would think someday terrorists would fly big planes into buildings.

The biggest question is, how did US security screw up so badly and allowed this to happen? That's the biggest thing, imo.

ToTheNines
09-11-2017, 06:39 PM
The pot head is a conspiracy theorist. Go figure.

The Catholic believes whatever authority figures tell him, go figure

Woah, love you both. Let's not fight.

As for your photo Ganj, a lot of the Pentagon stuff makes sense: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.asp

This was before everyone was walking around with a smartphone too.

Building 7 is interesting but I've read debunking articles. I'll link later if I can.

And as per my understanding, the buildings collapsed because the ongoing jet fuel fire was so hot that it weakened crucial support beams. I'll have to look into the other points brought up though.

ProphetofGanja
09-11-2017, 06:42 PM
I'm not claiming to have the answers to these question, I'm just pointing out that there are a large number of unanswered questions. The more research you do, the more you will realize that the official explanation is severely lacking.

Cure
09-11-2017, 06:45 PM
Nah, I'm cool, no worries. I just found it funny, haha.

DWC
09-11-2017, 07:28 PM
I'm not claiming to have the answers to these question, I'm just pointing out that there are a large number of unanswered questions. The more research you do, the more you will realize that the official explanation is severely lacking.

Yeah, agreed.

mrmaczaps
09-11-2017, 08:42 PM
There's no footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon because there wasn't a camera crew there like there was for the WTC, but you saw the smoke from the blast and the wreckage of the plane in Shanksville.

There is one bit of securoty footage of the Pentagon, but no plane.... just a stream of smoke and then explosion... no plane.... lol

Prowler
09-11-2017, 09:35 PM
Imagine being the pilot of the plane that hit one of those buildings whose friend had seniority and bumped him from that flight, trading one life for another. Pastor at a church I attended a few times was supposed to fly that plane.... his buddy decided he wanted it the night before, or early that morning. Not sure which now... but to know you were supposed to be there but were spared...
There seem to be several stories online of people who were supposed to fly the 4 airplanes involved in 9/11. The only famous case I know is of Seth MacFarlane.

snake
09-11-2017, 09:36 PM
To be completely honest, we don't have a right to know. The government isn't going to release files of this much importance. What really matters is that people were killed, either way.

Prowler
09-11-2017, 09:47 PM
Tbh, considering the huge security fiasco it was, they probably don't want to expose the fiasco even further in order to avoid the relatives of the victims demanding more money compensation.

plastroncafe
09-11-2017, 11:01 PM
Tbh, considering the huge security fiasco it was, they probably don't want to expose the fiasco even further in order to avoid the relatives of the victims demanding more money compensation.

I buy this more than just about anything else.

Prowler
09-11-2017, 11:33 PM
The response to the attack wasn't immediate. I guess they felt disoriented. Bush also kept reading My Pet Goat after hearing about it. And speaking of Bush, he probably is secretly thankful for the attacks since it gave him an excuse to wage war against Afghanistan and Iraq(cleaning up his pops' mess) and it also helped him get re-elected. The attacks made him popular for a while.

CyberCubed
09-11-2017, 11:55 PM
I was in 10th grade I think, particularly Gym class when I found out. The Gym teacher just immediately told the entire class what happened. A lot of people didn't believe it.

9/11 is obviously going to have a different impact on you depending on how old you were at the time. I was a teenager so it seemed to be a bigger deal to me than say a 10 year old. And people older than me like my parents and their generation was shocked.

The kids in High School now weren't even born or were only babies when it happened, so the impact isn't going to be there as much for them unless they listen to their parents views or older siblings or whatever.

ProphetofGanja
09-11-2017, 11:55 PM
I studied the history of false flag operations in college. It's pretty harrowing, eye-opening stuff, realizing what those in power are willing to do to advance the interests of "the people".

Forget 9/11 for a moment. Google the Russo-Swedish War, the pretexts for the Mexican-American War, the sinking of the USS Maine (which coincided with the rise of "yellow journalism", aka FAKE NEWS), the sinking of the RMS Lusitania, the Mukden Incident (which lead to the coining of the term "Manchurian candidate"), the Gleiwitz Incident, Project TP-Ajax, and Operation Northwoods (that last one should give you pause).

As far as 9/11 goes, I recommend the late Michael Ruppert's book Crossing the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil (https://archive.org/stream/fe_Crossing_the_Rubicon-Decline_of_the_American_Empire_at_the_end_of_the_A ge_of_Oil/Crossing_the_Rubicon-Decline_of_the_American_Empire_at_the_end_of_the_A ge_of_Oil_djvu.txt). It's highly detailed. It is a long read, but well worth it. Some of the points made in the book are listed here (http://issuepedia.org/9-11/anomalies).



It is possible to have enough pieces of information to know that the generally accepted version of events is false, without being able to definitively say what is in fact true.

If you want to prove any of this wrong, please, by all means, do some research and present your findings. I would love to have concrete answers that add up.

Prowler
09-12-2017, 12:12 AM
I was in 10th grade I think, particularly Gym class when I found out. The Gym teacher just immediately told the entire class what happened. A lot of people didn't believe it.

9/11 is obviously going to have a different impact on you depending on how old you were at the time. I was a teenager so it seemed to be a bigger deal to me than say a 10 year old. And people older than me like my parents and their generation was shocked.

The kids in High School now weren't even born or were only babies when it happened, so the impact isn't going to be there as much for them unless they listen to their parents views or older siblings or whatever.
I see more and more people younger than me online these days. As in people who were too young to remember that day. I was quite young at the time it happened as well(10 years old), but I see more and more people who claim to have been 5-6 at best back then and thus don't remember anything at all.

I wonder how people who weren't born at the time or were babies at the time feel about that day. Must be a very foreign sounding day for them. Is 9/11 talked about in history books and classes?

BubblyShell22
09-12-2017, 07:46 AM
There seem to be several stories online of people who were supposed to fly the 4 airplanes involved in 9/11. The only famous case I know is of Seth MacFarlane.

Yeah, I heard about that too and that his flight got switched which is fortunate for him. I couldn't imagine almost being that person who died but was lucky enough to not be involved in it.

I don't know if the event is in history books or not, but it should be.

mrmaczaps
09-12-2017, 08:02 AM
To be completely honest, we don't have a right to know. The government isn't going to release files of this much importance. What really matters is that people were killed, either way.

What do you mean, we have no right to know? Yeah people died, but any American citizen or politician involved in making this happen should be hung. We do have a right to know what really happened. The Government isn't our Master. They don't have the right to keep anything like this secret from The People. Problem is, I'm sure some of the folks at the highest levels actually do know what happened, likely beforehand and it will never be seen unless a hacker finds it on a server somewhere. And then they end up dead.

People were killed. Too many people. And there are in fact far too many problems with the structure of the towers, plus two planes and 3 buildings collapsing in a straight down into their own footprints. If you have ever seen any "building demos gone wrong" videos....

mrmaczaps
09-12-2017, 08:08 AM
I studied the history of false flag operations in college. It's pretty harrowing, eye-opening stuff, realizing what those in power are willing to do to advance the interests of "the people".

Forget 9/11 for a moment. Google the Russo-Swedish War, the pretexts for the Mexican-American War, the sinking of the USS Maine (which coincided with the rise of "yellow journalism", aka FAKE NEWS), the sinking of the RMS Lusitania, the Mukden Incident (which lead to the coining of the term "Manchurian candidate"), the Gleiwitz Incident, Project TP-Ajax, and Operation Northwoods (that last one should give you pause).

As far as 9/11 goes, I recommend the late Michael Ruppert's book Crossing the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil (https://archive.org/stream/fe_Crossing_the_Rubicon-Decline_of_the_American_Empire_at_the_end_of_the_A ge_of_Oil/Crossing_the_Rubicon-Decline_of_the_American_Empire_at_the_end_of_the_A ge_of_Oil_djvu.txt). It's highly detailed. It is a long read, but well worth it. Some of the points made in the book are listed here (http://issuepedia.org/9-11/anomalies).



It is possible to have enough pieces of information to know that the generally accepted version of events is false, without being able to definitively say what is in fact true.

If you want to prove any of this wrong, please, by all means, do some research and present your findings. I would love to have concrete answers that add up.

It really is freaky, the number of people looking up at the Government from the dirt looking for truth and assistance that get some assistance and are fine shoving their head in the sand and taking The Governments word as truth.... those same folks that think the Bible is wrong... lol. The Government is NOT our friend. The country has allowed them to take too much power. Too much control. The people are supposed to rule and the government is supposed to follow along to make things happen... but the government is corrupt. Both sides. Back as far as Kennedy... or probably even Lincoln.

Most people are willing to just go about their lives and not care until they need a handout...

Prowler
09-12-2017, 09:00 PM
There's no footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon because there wasn't a camera crew there like there was for the WTC, but you saw the smoke from the blast and the wreckage of the plane in Shanksville.
Yeah, and even though the Pentagon probably has lots of cameras around the area, they can't just reveal them to the public like that, I assume. It's a vert well guarded building. Also, some hotel and gas station caught the plane on tape but the tapes were confiscated and never given back or something, which is also understandable.

I mean if it wasn't an airplane what else could have been? A missile? No one in the area reported seeing a missile afaik.

The airplanes that hit the WTC shouldn't be seen as airplanes but more as missiles, btw. They had their tanks full and hit the buildings at full speed. The intentions of the terrorists was to bring them down. It wasn't a coincidence. They tried that already in the early 90s but clearly a vehicle full of bombs wasn'r enough to bring down huge buildings like that.

BubblyShell22
09-13-2017, 07:59 AM
Yep, and they knew what they were doing too. I don't think the attacks were an inside job from the U.S. as some people seem to think, but they were definitely an inside job for the terrorists and they were plotting it for a long time. We always need to be more vigilant when it comes to this stuff and not just turn away from it as though it isn't going to happen. Say what you will about Trump's travel ban, I think it's a good idea in these times because you never know who will sneak in and try to kill us.

plastroncafe
09-13-2017, 11:25 AM
The airplanes that hit the WTC shouldn't be seen as airplanes but more as missiles, btw. They had their tanks full and hit the buildings at full speed. The intentions of the terrorists was to bring them down. It wasn't a coincidence. They tried that already in the early 90s but clearly a vehicle full of bombs wasn'r enough to bring down huge buildings like that.


It wasn't a coincidence they chose flights going from Boston across the country that went early in the week. Those flights tend to be less populated, so they were looking for Less chance of resistance from the passengers, in addition to having their fuel tanks full.

Say what you will about Trump's travel ban, I think it's a good idea in these times because you never know who will sneak in and try to kill us.

The travel ban is stupid and short-sighted
There are people in the Middle East who have been helping American Military Intelligence for years that are now unable to get to this country because of the travel ban. People we have promised to protect. Who put they're lives, and the lives of their lives ones in danger.

All this ban does is ruin whatever credibility we have left in the Middle East. No one in their right mind would help us.

But I guess the lives of our men and women in uniform with their boots on the ground don't matter nearly as much as the approval rating of one sitting Administration.

... those same folks that think the Bible is wrong... lol.

I am so planning on using this as a rebuttal for just about everything.

Because let's face it, there have been so many versions of that book, that each one of them pretty much says the rest of them are wrong. So this is a pretty applicable to everything comment.

ToTheNines
09-13-2017, 11:37 AM
Here's where the Bible completely loses me.

http://studentdevos.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/pablo-14-1024x512.png

Plus the whole Leviticus thing.

plastroncafe
09-13-2017, 12:36 PM
Well of COURSE the Romans would say something like that!

Utrommaniac
09-13-2017, 12:50 PM
It...wasn't said by the Romans themselves. It was addressed to the Romans by St. Paul.

ProphetofGanja
09-13-2017, 12:51 PM
What do you mean, we have no right to know? Yeah people died, but any American citizen or politician involved in making this happen should be hung. We do have a right to know what really happened. The Government isn't our Master. They don't have the right to keep anything like this secret from The People. Problem is, I'm sure some of the folks at the highest levels actually do know what happened, likely beforehand and it will never be seen unless a hacker finds it on a server somewhere. And then they end up dead.

People were killed. Too many people. And there are in fact far too many problems with the structure of the towers, plus two planes and 3 buildings collapsing in a straight down into their own footprints. If you have ever seen any "building demos gone wrong" videos....

For once, I actually agree with you MacZaps

Yes and no. The problem is more people screaming to stop labeling scumbags, scumbags. I hope there isn't "bad guys" around, but when I'm out and about, I people watch. Its amazing how many people go about their day with their faces turned down at phones or otherwise oblivious to whats going on around them.



Islam isn't religion. Its an entire political system that includes the cult that passes for religion. It has to do with every single bit of their way of life and their laws. If you've ever read all or parts of their hellspawned book of evil....

Social media has also made communication near instant which most times doesn't help.... if you ever played that game as a kid where you sit in a circle and one person whispers a sentence to the kid next to them and then that person repeats in to the person next to them.... what gets back to the first person is never the same. Yet folks believe all of what they hear on the news, be it left leaning or right sometimes.

I'm also sure at least one person will be pissed off, raging mad at what I've written here... Never fails.

The good that came from 9/11 was a united America... at least for a time. It will happen again, people will die, again and then we will come together almost as before.

...aaaand it's gone. I don't see how near-instantaneous communication is a bad thing, communication is only as effective as people make it. If you're not adept at getting your point across, that's on you, not on the method of communication in question. Like some people can't text at all, trying to decipher their text messages is a huge headache and when you ask them to clarify you get more nonsense. So annoying.

And yes, Islam is a religion, and it actually has quite a lot in common with both Judaism and Christianity. I'm not really a fan of any religions.

Here's where the Bible completely loses me.

http://studentdevos.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/pablo-14-1024x512.png

Plus the whole Leviticus thing.

Yeah, the bible is a hot mess as far as internal consistency goes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_consistency_of_the_Bible)

plastroncafe
09-13-2017, 01:01 PM
It...wasn't said by the Romans themselves. It was addressed to the Romans by St. Paul.

I know. I was being sassy.
(What's the deal with the Corinthians? Why don't they ever write back?)

PApagreg
09-13-2017, 01:13 PM
Say what you will about Trump's travel ban, I think it's a good idea in these times because you never know who will sneak in and try to kill us.

You know that would mean something if his ban included Saudi Arabia, you know a country thats been known to fund terriost groups and where 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were from.

mrmaczaps
09-13-2017, 01:55 PM
For once, I actually agree with you MacZaps



...aaaand it's gone. I don't see how near-instantaneous communication is a bad thing, communication is only as effective as people make it. If you're not adept at getting your point across, that's on you, not on the method of communication in question. Like some people can't text at all, trying to decipher their text messages is a huge headache and when you ask them to clarify you get more nonsense. So annoying.

And yes, Islam is a religion, and it actually has quite a lot in common with both Judaism and Christianity. I'm not really a fan of any religions.



Yeah, the bible is a hot mess as far as internal consistency goes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_consistency_of_the_Bible)

Well, you're learning.....

Annnnd its gone. You can believe what you want. The problem part of near instant communication is people are saying less. And only talking to people who agree with them on most or as many subjects as possible... friendships are built on a common interest and that interest goes away, so sometimes do those friends. "News" sources today want to be first to report, not first correct at reporting. If they are wrong, which is more often than not, there is never a retraction... unless its someone reporting a conservative pov and getting canned for being honest....

Islam if you go look at it from their point of view is most certainly NOT JUST religion. Islam is their entire way of being. Their political views, their laws, everything they do must be good by allah the goatf#cker & mooohammed the rapist.

Judaism is based on pre-Christianity and basically the Old Testament. They are NOTHING like islam. I don't see anywhere in the Bibles of Christianity or Judaism where it says its acceptable, and proper, to throw homosexuals from rooftops or stone non-believers. Christians & Jews are not supposed to lie, while islamists are told to lie in order to gain non-believers trust in order to gsin power and influence to further islam.

Islam is why 9.11 happened. In bed with some of our owm government...

plastroncafe
09-13-2017, 02:12 PM
Islam if you go look at it from their point of view is most certainly NOT JUST religion. Islam is their entire way of being. Their political views, their laws, everything they do must be good by allah the goatf#cker & mooohammed the rapist.

Good lord there's so much to unpack here.
Allah is literally the Arabic word for God.
The God in question is literally the god of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus.

And how you've described Islam is literally how Judiasm, and to an extent also how Christiantity works.
It's not just a religion, it's a culture and a philosophy.

Judaism is based on pre-Christianity and basically the Old Testament. They are NOTHING like islam. I don't see anywhere in the Bibles of Christianity or Judaism where it says its acceptable, and proper, to throw homosexuals from rooftops or stone non-believers. Christians & Jews are not supposed to lie, while islamists are told to lie in order to gain non-believers trust in order to gsin power and influence to further islam.


Judaism is not based on Pre-Christian anything. Nor does it have a Bible.
That's the word for the holy book of Christianity.
Judaism is literally it's own religion. The Torah has absolutely nothing to do with the unauthorized sequels that followed.

Methinks maybe you should read yourself some Leviticus. Maybe a bit of Deuteronomy.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
09-13-2017, 02:16 PM
Judaism is based on pre-Christianity and basically the Old Testament. They are NOTHING like islam. I don't see anywhere in the Bibles of Christianity or Judaism where it says its acceptable, and proper, to throw homosexuals from rooftops or stone non-believers. Christians & Jews are not supposed to lie, while islamists are told to lie in order to gain non-believers trust in order to gsin power and influence to further islam.

Leviticus, man. Go read that.

Condemns bestiality, homosexuality, adultery, and also wearing clothes made of multiple cloth types or whatever. Also shellfish.

Prowler
09-13-2017, 02:37 PM
What if the buildings had not collapsed? Surely they'd have closed down or have to be shortened or spend a year or to in maintenance before being used again, no? The damage was pretty big.

Also, was their collapse a surprise to everyone? I mean, I know buildings don't tend to collapse form fire and that planes deliberately flying into buildings had never happened before or again ever since, but surely some people feared they'd might collapse, no? I mean, obviously the attackers wanted to take those buildings down. They can't have been the only people in the world who thought it would be possible for a big airplane loaded with jetfuel to knock down those two towers.

Yep, and they knew what they were doing too. I don't think the attacks were an inside job from the U.S. as some people seem to think, but they were definitely an inside job for the terrorists and they were plotting it for a long time. We always need to be more vigilant when it comes to this stuff and not just turn away from it as though it isn't going to happen. Say what you will about Trump's travel ban, I think it's a good idea in these times because you never know who will sneak in and try to kill us.
The guys who did 9/11 were Saudis, I think... and ofc the travel ban doesn't include Saudi Arabia, the largest terrorist factory in the world next to Pakistan. They're friends of USA and the West and have nice oil, right? :roll:

ToTheNines
09-13-2017, 03:40 PM
Good lord there's so much to unpack here.
Allah is literally the Arabic word for God.
The God in question is literally the god of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus.


Yeah, I was gonna say... pretty common knowledge that the big three are called the "Abrahamic religions". Jesus and Moses are both prophets in the Quran.

Leviticus, man. Go read that.

Condemns bestiality, homosexuality, adultery, and also wearing clothes made of multiple cloth types or whatever. Also shellfish.

Also menstruating women will be stoned to death if they don't bring two doves or two turtles to their priest. Or a goat. Or something.

Autbot_Benz
09-13-2017, 03:45 PM
So this is another thread that shows MrMAGAczaps as a complete and udder Idiot? :lol:

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
09-13-2017, 03:46 PM
Also menstruating women will be stoned to death if they don't bring two doves or two turtles to their priest. Or a goat. Or something.

I believe it was simply that they were ritually unclean, and had to remain in isolation during that time. After which, they did the sacrifice.

...

Which, now that I'm thinking about, seems kind of expensive. Sacrifice two turtle doves (not turtles, turtles were unclean and only clean animals could be sacrificed) a month, from age ~13 to age whatever...

Prowler
09-13-2017, 03:54 PM
And now everyone is discussing which religious book says the most evil things and there goes the point of the thread. Tbh, how could I have expected anything different? Never change, Drome. :lol:

PApagreg
09-13-2017, 03:59 PM
And now everyone is discussing which religious book says the most evil things and there goes the point of the thread. Tbh, how could I have expected anything different? Never change, Drome. :lol:

To be fair its the one guy who started it.

Prowler
09-13-2017, 04:03 PM
To be fair its the one guy who started it.
At this point I dunno why people still engage mrmaczaps in discussions. It's obvious he has his mind made and we all know by now what his views are.

Candy Kappa
09-13-2017, 04:06 PM
I remember being at my grandma's place visiting with my mom as the news interrupted a tv show grandpa was watching. It was too bizarre and unreal at the time it didn't sink in until a couple of days later.


To be fair its the one guy who started it.

As he usually does.

plastroncafe
09-13-2017, 04:07 PM
I believe it was simply that they were ritually unclean, and had to remain in isolation during that time. After which, they did the sacrifice.


I would LOVE some voluntary isolation during my menses.
That sounds like a plan that would work in everyone's favor really.

And I'm pretty sure in Judaism one must ritualistically clean oneself after one's period has passed. (Depending on which level of observance one participates in.)

I don't believe sacrifices are required. Just...you know, hygiene.
Which, given the time period and general state of hygiene, was pretty revolutionary.

And now everyone is discussing which religious book says the most evil things and there goes the point of the thread. Tbh, how could I have expected anything different? Never change, Drome. :lol:

I wouldn't say these things are evil.
Some of them are just flat out wrong, but probably make more sense in cultural context.

Though, we should all be lucky no one strictly adheres to that bit about the stoning death of rebellious and stubborn children.



So this is another thread that shows MrMAGAczaps as a complete and udder Idiot? :lol:

It'd be like a day without sunshine NOT to have one.

BubblyShell22
09-13-2017, 06:10 PM
The travel ban is stupid and short-sighted
There are people in the Middle East who have been helping American Military Intelligence for years that are now unable to get to this country because of the travel ban. People we have promised to protect. Who put they're lives, and the lives of their lives ones in danger.

All this ban does is ruin whatever credibility we have left in the Middle East. No one in their right mind would help us.

But I guess the lives of our men and women in uniform with their boots on the ground don't matter nearly as much as the approval rating of one sitting Administration.

No, it really isn't short-sighted at all. He's trying to protect us from the a**holes who have it out to kill us and that's all that matters. Those people are probably only a minority who really give a f*ck about us and the rest of these people are terrorists who want to kill us.

People have hated us for years even before this. That's nothing new and it will never change, but a lot of these countries are stupid for letting in refugees. That's why a lot of these European countries are getting terrorist attacks because they decided to take a chance on these refugees without really seeing if they were trustworthy. And before you make a generalization and act like I think these countries deserve it (which is what you would do because you enjoy making these types of assumptions), I don't feel that way at all, but I do feel that should have used more discretion about the matter.

PApagreg
09-13-2017, 06:32 PM
No, it really isn't short-sighted at all. He's trying to protect us from the a**holes who have it out to kill us and that's all that matters. Those people are probably only a minority who really give a f*ck about us and the rest of these people are terrorists who want to kill us.

People have hated us for years even before this. That's nothing new and it will never change, but a lot of these countries are stupid for letting in refugees. That's why a lot of these European countries are getting terrorist attacks because they decided to take a chance on these refugees without really seeing if they were trustworthy. And before you make a generalization and act like I think these countries deserve it (which is what you would do because you enjoy making these types of assumptions), I don't feel that way at all, but I do feel that should have used more discretion about the matter.

If that was the case then why didn't the travel ban include Saudi Arabia.

ProphetofGanja
09-13-2017, 07:18 PM
No, it really isn't short-sighted at all. He's trying to protect us from the a**holes who have it out to kill us and that's all that matters. Those people are probably only a minority who really give a f*ck about us and the rest of these people are terrorists who want to kill us.

People have hated us for years even before this. That's nothing new and it will never change, but a lot of these countries are stupid for letting in refugees. That's why a lot of these European countries are getting terrorist attacks because they decided to take a chance on these refugees without really seeing if they were trustworthy. And before you make a generalization and act like I think these countries deserve it (which is what you would do because you enjoy making these types of assumptions), I don't feel that way at all, but I do feel that should have used more discretion about the matter.

Geez you have truly drunk the Kool-Aid

http://www.funnyshirts.net/media/catalog/product/cache/1/large_preview/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/o/dont-drink-the-kool-aid-tshirt-preview.png

Classic game strategy

Distract, Deceive, Divide, Conquer

BubblyShell22
09-14-2017, 07:38 AM
If that was the case then why didn't the travel ban include Saudi Arabia.

I don't know and I agree that was stupid for him not to do that. I thought Saudi Arabia was included. Whatever. Still think it's a good idea whether you guys agree with me or not.


Geez you have truly drunk the Kool-Aid

http://www.funnyshirts.net/media/catalog/product/cache/1/large_preview/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/o/dont-drink-the-kool-aid-tshirt-preview.png

Classic game strategy

Distract, Deceive, Divide, Conquer

Hey, Kool-Aid is awesome! I'm just saying that in this day and age, you can't trust anyone anymore and don't really know what their intentions are. Back in the day when our ancestors came here, nobody really worried about terrorism, but nowadays you have to worry about it and whether any of these people just want to come here for a good life or if they have other intentions. You just never know anymore.

My aunt is over in Israel right now, and I think it was a bad idea for her to go there because of all the stuff that has happened. So far, she's been okay, but I do worry about it.

When I go out, I do just what Mrmaczaps does and people watch. I'm aware of my surroundings at all times because you have to be vigilant. That's just what this stuff has done. I'm of the opinion that nobody can be trusted.

As for religion, all of the books are a crock so it's best not to take them literally anyway.

plastroncafe
09-14-2017, 08:21 AM
I think you need to revise your understanding of American History, if you honestly believe that terrorism wasn't an issue during previous immigrant waves.

Fear and threat of terrorism had been used against immigrant classes since the very beginning.
This is no different.

And zapp's opinion on religion?
Used to be leveled Catholics.
We've had exactly one Catholic President for pretty much all of the same reasons he says we should be afraid of Islam.

None of these arguments are new, they are just as short-sighted and ill-informed now as they were the last time they were trotted out.

BubblyShell22
09-14-2017, 04:22 PM
I don't remember hearing about terrorism being a big issue back in the day. Maybe they did think of terrorism back then, but it's more prevalent now that these people who come over here are not all good people and some of them are radical terrorists. But, hey, we should just accept everybody with open arms and then let them kill us, right? Great logic right there, but this doesn't surprise me from someone who thinks incest is perfectly natural and should be accepted in society.

snake
09-14-2017, 05:00 PM
Terrorism, in the definition we know today, was not considered a threat during the first immigrant waves. Not sure where you heard that.

The discrimination came mostly from citizens who thought the catholics/irish/jews would disrupt the values that were already in place.

Everyone forgets that the German and Dutch immigrants that came 30 years or so before the second wave actually settled quite nicely.

Prowler
09-14-2017, 06:24 PM
Terrorism, in the definition we know today, was not considered a threat during the first immigrant waves. Not sure where you heard that.

The discrimination came mostly from citizens who thought the catholics/irish/jews would disrupt the values that were already in place.

Everyone forgets that the German and Dutch immigrants that came 30 years or so before the second wave actually settled quite nicely.
Actually, Germans have suffered some discrimination in USA. It got worse during the world wars. I believe many changed their names to English versions. Braun became Brown and Schmidt became Smith, for example.

So many Americans claim German ancestry but it seems Americans of Irish and Italian ancestry have been able to flaunt and keep their culture more alive.

ProphetofGanja
09-14-2017, 07:29 PM
Listen to this engineer (https://www.facebook.com/massreport/videos/1675186662494344/?hc_ref=ARS7uYB7yrBM0C-EeHPDNCxPtTCHnznqgXGdVneo7sQdj5UE6ZQ3y7Dq7i7Zk13A6-M)

Prowler
09-14-2017, 09:08 PM
Man, I don't think I'd ever want to work in a skyscraper, at least not in the top floors. If you work above the 50th floor and there is a fire or something and you gotta evacuate it must be very hard, since you're not supposed to use the elevators when there's a fire. Not to mention the people who were above the impact zone in those towers pretty much had no chance of getting out of there. And if any did, not many have been saved, I bet.

plastroncafe
09-14-2017, 11:38 PM
So many Americans claim German ancestry but it seems Americans of Irish and Italian ancestry have been able to flaunt and keep their culture more alive.

Most of that happened after those particular ethnic groups came to political power, but not before. Speaking specifically of the Italian American community in my part of the country, many second generation Italian Americans were not taught to read or speak in their dialect.

The biggest wave of Italian immigrants came at the turn of the 20th century, when Italy was just unifying and Italian wasn't quite standardized yet.

But there were big issues with the Italian Anarchist movement, and regular Italians being equated with mobsters.

The great Molasses Flood, caused by incompetence, was blamed on Italian anarchists.

And this doesn't go anywhere near the prejudice and bigotry of Chinese Exclusion Act, or the Japanese concentration camps of WWII.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-15-2017, 06:33 AM
The biggest wave of Italian immigrants came at the turn of the 20th century, when Italy was just unifying and Italian wasn't quite standardized yet.

Italy united during the mid-19th century.

plastroncafe
09-15-2017, 08:34 AM
Italy united during the mid-19th century.

Library of Congress says late 19th, so I went with that.

What brought about this dramatic surge in immigration? The causes are complex, and each hopeful individual or family no doubt had a unique story. By the late 19th century, the peninsula of Italy had finally been brought under one flag, but the land and the people were by no means unified.

https://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactivities/presentations/immigration/italian3.html

BubblyShell22
09-15-2017, 08:44 AM
Terrorism, in the definition we know today, was not considered a threat during the first immigrant waves. Not sure where you heard that.

The discrimination came mostly from citizens who thought the catholics/irish/jews would disrupt the values that were already in place.

Everyone forgets that the German and Dutch immigrants that came 30 years or so before the second wave actually settled quite nicely.

Yep, that's what I remember too. It wasn't about people killing each other, it was just about people who were different and how that would disrupt everything. But nowadays, things have changed and you have to worry about it whether you like it or not.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-15-2017, 08:48 AM
Library of Congress says late 19th, so I went with that.



https://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactivities/presentations/immigration/italian3.html

Most of Italy had been united by 1861. The Papal States joined by 1870-1871, completing it.

plastroncafe
09-15-2017, 08:52 AM
Most of Italy had been united by 1861. The Papal States joined by 1870-1871, completing it.

I can see the Papal States joining the Union as a huge impetus for especially Catholic Italians to BrExit, if you will. As for my own family it was the Rumblings of a volcano that brought us to America.

And when they got here they were often accused of Anarchy by virtue of being Italian, and weren't considered white on the US Census.

A fact that every Italian American organization I've witnessed has very loudly mentioned, right along with the fact that they were discouraged from speaking their own language. And then in the next breath the old be in favor of denying bilingual education two later waves of immigrants.

The hell of a thing.

Sumac
09-15-2017, 12:55 PM
Since USA is so big, did people who live far from New York feel scared that day? I mean, Los Angles and NYC are what, as far as Portugal and Russia are from each other, more or less?
Can say for my experience in Russia.

I remember playing NES all day and then turning on TV broadcast in 6 of evening. All channels, even entertaining ones that did not normally had news programs were showing records of planes hitting skyscrapers.

My first feeling was, sort of ir-reality of everything. Like what I was watching on TV looked like some kind of an action movie. Later that day I felt like the world is on the brink of the big war, because, it really felt like a game-changer event.

Prowler
09-15-2017, 06:41 PM
Can say for my experience in Russia.

I remember playing NES all day and then turning on TV broadcast in 6 of evening. All channels, even entertaining ones that did not normally had news programs were showing records of planes hitting skyscrapers.

My first feeling was, sort of ir-reality of everything. Like what I was watching on TV looked like some kind of an action movie. Later that day I felt like the world is on the brink of the big war, because, it really felt like a game-changer event.
I honestly don't remember playing video games or watching cartoons at all during that day, even though we had two TVs at the time already and my family was watching the news in the living room, while the tv in my brother's room was free.

I didn't think a big war was gonna happen. I was 10 years old at the time and thus too young to comprehend how the world works still. I didn't even know what the WTC was until that day, so I had no emotional attachment to those skyscrapers. After all these years I think of them as "those two big towers that fell". I had no idea they were so well known worldwide. I only knew of the Empire State Building.

I think news stations worldwide began live coverage a few minutes after the first tower was hit. So those buildings must have been very important to the world economy for the media all over the world to immediately start covering it after the first plane hit.

Like I've said, I only recall being sad in the previous days to it due to school being close to restarting. It started two days after the attacks. I remember the attacks being discussed a bit and mentioned by a couple of teachers at school in the first couple of days.

Btw, when did it become confirmed who did those attacks? I mean, once the 2nd plane hit it was pretty much a given already that those weren't just horrific accidents, and the pentagon plane and the one that crashed in the countryside confirmed it, but I remember in 2002 and 2003 many people still not being sure who did it. Or maybe that was just people being sceptical.