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Andrew NDB
09-11-2017, 10:44 AM
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/48/b1/4b/48b14b0eb737456166393a6f1b1ec85d.jpg

What are some of your favorite character arcs in the Fred Wolf cartoon? Meaning, say... just as an example... Donatello's character arc from season 1 to the end of season 10, how much he had grown and evolved as a character after everything he had experienced and how different he was.

IndigoErth
09-11-2017, 11:00 AM
Arcs? Come on... this is a trick question, right? lol

Anything with the Turtles is so vague. Maybe Donnie, as you mention has the most, sorta, in that I guess he becomes more techie over time, teeters between gaining and losing confidence in it, and gradually grows annoyed at the others taking his skills for granted; esp at wanting him to play handyman. As for the other three, potential growth (or setbacks) that could foster it is so quickly forgotten that arcs are hard to find imo.


The villains and side characters like the frogs and Kerma prob have it better.

Forced to choose, I'd probably pick Kerma. He's kind of an almost-annoying little guy who shows up unannounced at the worst times, but in the few eps he's in, he at least becomes more determined to want to grow a small backbone and help his people.

Wesley
09-11-2017, 11:01 AM
Don't know what you mean by arcs, but I liked the Leonardo and Raphael-centric episodes the most, as they usually learnt something in them. I also liked how April had a more proactive role in the Red Sky seasons.

oldmanwinters
09-11-2017, 11:02 AM
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/48/b1/4b/48b14b0eb737456166393a6f1b1ec85d.jpg

What are some of your favorite character arcs in the Fred Wolf cartoon? Meaning, say... just as an example... Donatello's character arc from season 1 to the end of season 10, how much he had grown and evolved as a character after everything he had experienced and how different he was.

Andrew, is this a troll thread? :trazz:

Character development wasn't much for the old toon, but I think there were a few moments of it.

I appreciate Splinter's arc between season 1 and season 2, basically giving up on his desire to ever become human again after the events of "Splinter No More" and also his coming to terms with the Rat King's power over him in both "Enter the Rat King" and "Wererats from Channel Six." I would have liked to see the show revisit his admitted fear of cats ("the one creature I truly fear") as stated in "The Cat Woman from Channel Six," which is why I did a short fan comic (https://oldmanwinters.deviantart.com/journal/Nothing-to-Fear-My-first-Fan-Comic-261885296) about it years ago.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
09-11-2017, 11:03 AM
This would be funny, except I've seen people on here insist that Fred Wolf characters HAD development and arcs.

No. No, they did not.

oldmanwinters
09-11-2017, 11:05 AM
This would be funny, except I've seen people on here insist that Fred Wolf characters HAD development and arcs.

No. No, they did not.

Well, then go ahead and fill my previous post with shotgun holes, pardner.

Admittedly, I think there are far more instances of the show having potential for character development but dropping the threads because of editorial direction or too many writers working independently of one another.

TurtleWA
09-11-2017, 11:15 AM
Andrew, is this a troll thread? :trazz:

Hey let's give the dude a benefit of the doubt. He could be sincerely just looking to get inspired for his next project. ;)

FredWolfLeonardo
09-11-2017, 11:48 AM
This is a legitimate question. The shows characters did have changes over time, but not in the same way as other tmnt shows since it was more episodic in nature. I'll try and give a list of what I remember, although there's probably more in the 193 episodes of the show that I've missed. Anyways, hee goes:

1. Leonardo started out very confident and gung go in season 1, but became more insecure and had a more innocent child like demeanor as the show went on. He would often boss the other turtles around alot to their annoyance and often be doubtful of his abilities as a leader (Leonardo Lightens Up, Take me to Your Leader). Over time however, he was more confident and effective as a leader which gave him the abilty to overcome his fears (Snakes Alive) and Overcome threats which were more dangerous then anything they had faced before (Dregg, Megavolt, The Glaxxons etc.)

2. Donatello started out as a character who loved inventions and used them for the benefit of his team, but doubted humanity for their unwillingless to help them with their battle against the forces of evil (beginning of Hot Rodding Teenagers from Dimension X). Slowly however, Donatello's doubts grew throughout the series, not only of humanity (Planet of the Turtleoids, Wrath of the Rat King etc.) but also of his own usefullness to the team (Donatello's Duplicate, Night of the Dark Turtle). Like Leonardo however, he later showed less signs of his weaknesses and became a more effective fighter.

Those are just two examples but there are plenty more for many characters I'll cite below:

1. The turtles become Ninja Masters by the final episode, a culmination of all of their training throughout the series.

2. Shredder and Krang started out as uneasy allies who would often argue and bicker, with Krang being the boss but they became more like equals as the series progressed, although they still were hostile towards each other alot. This changed in the Red Sky seasons when they were at their most vulnerable, so they became incredibly close, with Shredder even giving his life force (blood) to help save a dying Krang and saving him when he didn't need to.

3. Splinter started out as wanting to become human but in the season 1 finale, he let aside his desire in order to save the turtles from being de mutated by Shredder. However, he still wanted to be human deep down and his wish was granted in season 2 when Donatello was able to temporarily turn him back. Splinter however, saw that the human world had become selfish and uncaring, so in the end he permanently quenched his thirst for being human and was fully content with the life he had as a mutant rat. Splinter showed an embracing of his rat side in "Splinter Vanishes" when he was able to mind control the Rats far more effectively than the Rat King, an homage to how he started out in the sewers with the rats as his only friends.

4. Dregg started out as a calculating and intelligent Warlord who used intelligence and manipulation to try to conquer the earth and defeat the turtles. However, as the series went on and his defeats piled up, he became more brutal and starting more on the turtles rather than world domination. He eventually lost humanitys support at the end of season 9 and slowly become more crazy and obsessed, until finally snapping at the end and becoming a mindless monster. Its my personal favourite.

5. Baxter Stockman starts out as intelligent and bright, trying to sell his mousers. His invention is so effective however, that businesses rejected him. The Shredder did hire him, but treated him badly, leading to Baxter becoming more insecure and arrogant until it culminated into his betrayal of Shredder in "Curse of the Evil Eye". After that, their relationship only worsened as Shredder sent for Baxter to be killed by Krang in return for Bebop and Rocksteady. Instead of being killed however, Baxter became a mutant fly who then started become more feral minded as the series progressed. However, he gained a new friend in the form of a computer who was different from everyone else. Unlike Shredder and Krang, he didn't want anything out of Baxter other than for him to be happy.

neatoman
09-11-2017, 12:19 PM
I like how Shredder, Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady, Baxter Stockman, Leatherhead, Rat King, Dregg, Mung, Slash, Pinky McFingers, Big Louie, Don Turtelli and Titanus all started out as incompetent villains and became frequently defeated incompetent villains. That was great.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
09-11-2017, 12:24 PM
I like how Shredder, Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady, Baxter Stockman, Leatherhead, Rat King, Dregg, Mung, Slash, Pinky McFingers, Big Louie, Don Turtelli and Titanus all started out as incompetent villains to frequently defeated incompetent villains. That was great.

https://media.giphy.com/media/qPVzemjFi150Q/giphy.gif

pferreira
09-14-2017, 11:02 AM
Character arcs? You were expecting serialisation? Is this Lost? Probably for the best it isn't...

Some characters like Splinter pretty much stay the same all the way through however some change.

Leo - starts as a overconfident but becomes insecure as the series goes on yet it proves to himself he's not perfect.

Raph - starts off as a joker who doesn't care much but by the end of the show he becomes serious about what's going on

Don - not much change. Don's inventions became much more reliable and less reckless as the series went on. He also questioned his heritage more.

Mike - over time matures and becomes more used to his environment and it's challenges.

Shredder/Krang - start out hating and trying to get one over each other. By the end of the series becomes frenemies.

Bebop/Rocksteady - get more used to being mutants.

Baxter - unfortunately his memory deteriorates with every returning encounter. Poor guy.

April - starts off looking for a hot story but by helping the TMNT realises she can help save the world, by the end of the series she's pretty much independent of even the TMNT.

There's probably more. Andrew not sure if you're trying to troll, I'll let the mods decide but if you have it's failed as the above shows there was actual character arcs.

This would be funny, except I've seen people on here insist that Fred Wolf characters HAD development and arcs.

No. No, they did not.So you really didn't watch the series did you? I see... ;)

This is a legitimate question. The shows characters did have changes over time, but not in the same way as other tmnt shows since it was more episodic in nature. I'll try and give a list of what I remember, although there's probably more in the 193 episodes of the show that I've missed. What I'm worried about is you gave this more serious thought that Andrew probably expected i.e. you took it seriously but kudos for doing so. :)

Cryomancer
09-14-2017, 08:00 PM
I will however say that Donatello attempting to get a degree is a decent concept

MsMarvelDuckie
09-14-2017, 10:41 PM
Character arcs? You were expecting serialisation? Is this Lost? Probably for the best it isn't...

Some characters like Splinter pretty much stay the same all the way through however some change.

Leo - starts as a overconfident but becomes insecure as the series goes on yet it proves to himself he's not perfect.

Raph - starts off as a joker who doesn't care much but by the end of the show he becomes serious about what's going on

Don - not much change. Don's inventions became much more reliable and less reckless as the series went on. He also questioned his heritage more.

Mike - over time matures and becomes more used to his environment and it's challenges.

Shredder/Krang - start out hating and trying to get one over each other. By the end of the series becomes frenemies.

Bebop/Rocksteady - get more used to being mutants.

Baxter - unfortunately his memory deteriorates with every returning encounter. Poor guy.

April - starts off looking for a hot story but by helping the TMNT realises she can help save the world, by the end of the series she's pretty much independent of even the TMNT.

There's probably more. Andrew not sure if you're trying to troll, I'll let the mods decide but if you have it's failed as the above shows there was actual character arcs.

So you really didn't watch the series did you? I see... ;)

What I'm worried about is you gave this more serious thought that Andrew probably expected i.e. you took it seriously but kudos for doing so. :)


Agree with all of this. Splinter had his arc too though. As others mentioned, he started out wishing to be human again, but eventually became content with his new existance and overcame Rat King's control.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-14-2017, 11:22 PM
One thing to also bear in mind is that having an arc doesn't necessarily make a good character. There are lots of great characters who don't have arcs e.g. Tom and Jerry, Looney Toons yet we still love them because they are entertaining and fun.

Thats not to say that arcs are bad, as they can certainly help make a character more interesting and complex. Do the FW tmnt characters have arcs? Certainly. However, they are not defined by their arcs as other tmnt characters and their charm comes more from their interaction and personalities rather than their change over the course of a series.

This is in contrast to other tmnt characters, an example being 4Kids Leo who was a great character because of how he changed throughout the series into a more mature and wise leader.

CyberCubed
09-14-2017, 11:56 PM
It's almost like people fail to realize most 80's-90's cartoons were designed with episodic stories because the channels aired the episodes all out of order. Even Batman: TAS was like this with standalone episodes that you can watch all out of order, besides the very first ep that introduces each villain. Nobody watched Batman: TAS in proper order back in the day when it first aired.

Continuity wasn't a big thing for kids cartoons until maybe the late 90's.

Tetsu Deinonychus
09-16-2017, 09:40 AM
I would say that Splinter wanting to be human again and then making peace with being a rat is my favourite, though I also like how certain characters (Rat King, Baxter, Dregg) just plain got crazier and crazier as the show went on.

Coola Yagami
09-16-2017, 09:52 AM
It's almost like people fail to realize most 80's-90's cartoons were designed with episodic stories because the channels aired the episodes all out of order.

No it's more like you failed to realize that Andrew was trolling and you took the bait.

Prowler
09-16-2017, 01:53 PM
You never get tired on taking shots at the FW toon do you, Andrew? :lol:

Tbh, Shredder and Krang had a bit of development. Shredder was more seriou and competent in season 1. around season 8 became more serious and competent again and also more threatening. And when he and Krang returned for 3 episodes in season 10 they were working together and not trying to back stab each other. So if you want to count that as character development...

But yeah, we all know that character development wasn't something the FW toon did. Tbh, the 4Kids toon didn't do that much either. The Turtles never seemed to learn the lessons they were taught, and I think Mike and Raph got worse as the show went on. If anything, they regressed.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-16-2017, 02:25 PM
This is in contrast to other tmnt characters, an example being 4Kids Leo who was a great character because of how he changed throughout the series into a more mature and wise leader.

Except for when he, after Shredder's defeat, became Raphael... (which Raphael even mentioned in one episode)

Sumac
09-16-2017, 09:40 PM
What are some of your favorite character arcs in the Fred Wolf cartoon?
I expected more from grown up adult, than being so salty about kid's cartoon 30 years after it's release, because people associate Turtles with it (and continue to do so), rather than with his precious Mirage.
But I always expect better from people and they never stop disappointing me.

Thins will never get YOUR way regarding Turtles. Why? Because they are not your property and never will be. Good luck drowning in your salt, little kid.:tlol:

Powder
09-16-2017, 09:45 PM
At 31 years of age, I don't see how you can act as if you're any better by practically stalking him & making childish remarks. Salt begets salt, I guess.

neatoman
09-17-2017, 03:32 AM
At 31 years of age, I don't see how you can act as if you're any better by practically stalking him & making childish remarks. Salt begets salt, I guess.

Seriously, Sumac is 31? First Mr Thursday and now this guy coupled with most people who still can't get over TF after almost a decade, what's up with this forum and 30+ year old men so attached to kids' cartoon they can't have a sense of humor about it? Or worse yet, still act like the 5 year olds it was meant for?

Andrew joked about how the show stayed the same for 169 episodes just so it could be watched in almost any random order, what's there to get mad about when that's what it did?

Prowler
09-17-2017, 04:17 AM
Seriously, Sumac is 31? First Mr Thursday and now this guy coupled with most people who still can't get over TF after almost a decade, what's up with this forum and 30+ year old men so attached to kids' cartoon they can't have a sense of humor about it? Or worse yet, still act like the 5 year olds it was meant for?

Andrew joked about how the show stayed the same for 169 episodes just so it could be watched in almost any random order, what's there to get mad about when that's what it did?
That's pretty how it is in any internet cartoon or video game property fandom aimed at kids/teenagers, sadly.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-17-2017, 04:19 AM
Also remember, most episode are plot-based, not character-based.

neatoman
09-17-2017, 04:56 AM
Also remember, most episode are plot-based, not character-based.

Yeah but you're following a character through a plot, if the characters are in service of the plot rather than the plot serving the characters then there's not that much reason to care.

Sumac
09-17-2017, 04:57 AM
At 31 years of age, I don't see how you can act as if you're any better by practically stalking him & making childish remarks. Salt begets salt, I guess.
How to not to be that daft in 5 simple steps:
1) Look who started this thread.
2) Look other Andrew's responses.
3) Think.
4) Draw conclusions.
5) Than return and say that you are sorry.

I am not stalking, BTW. I just using looking at the latest replies via "New Post" thing. If replying to the people is now "stalking", than my dear sir, we are all stalkers here.

Seriously, Sumac is 31? First Mr Thursday and now this guy coupled with most people who still can't get over TF after almost a decade, what's up with this forum and 30+ year old men so attached to kids' cartoon they can't have a sense of humor about it? Or worse yet, still act like the 5 year olds it was meant for?
What is 5 year old about having weighted and rational opinion on the piece of entertainment without going all "LUV LUV" or "HATE HATE" trains?

Or it is only weighted and rational when it aligns with your personal opinion on the matter, m (which pretty much means that you are as childish as everyone else, haha)?

Also, I don't find humorous constant dirt-throwing at something. It smells of fanaticism and personal (childish at its core) bias.

Maybe you are at the stage of development, where constant ******** on something that you are dislike is the funniest thing in the world (which doesn't paint in the good light, mind you), but a lot of people prefer to have rational nuanced opinions, rather than mindlessly praising something or mindlessly ******** on something.
One day you will probably get there. Today is not that day obviously.

Andrew joked about how the show stayed the same for 169 episodes just so it could be watched in almost any random order, what's there to get mad about when that's what it did?
I understand that you are probably just not yet arrived to the point, where you can understand such things as "context", so I won't hold your remarks against you.

Powder
09-17-2017, 05:02 AM
I hope you find peace, man.

Jester
09-17-2017, 08:20 AM
Hey, it's the content of the thread not the OP that makes it worthwhile.


I guess I'll counter with, though Andrew's not the biggest fan of ANY of the shows, what kind of character growth did the 4Kids and Nick Turtles go through? Aside from Mirage and maybe the 1st movie how much change have ANY version of the Turtles gone through?

ToTheNines
09-17-2017, 08:24 AM
I'd say Nick Leo did A LOT of growing up over the course of the show. And Nick Donnie stopped trying to creep on April, which must have been tough for him lol.

Then in 4kids, Leo had an interesting journey, even if it was a little melodramatic. Raph also learned to chill out some, even if he got Flanderized from season 6 onwards.

Other than that, nothing really.

oldmanwinters
09-17-2017, 11:30 AM
Hey, it's the content of the thread not the OP that makes it worthwhile.


I guess I'll counter with, though Andrew's not the biggest fan of ANY of the shows, what kind of character growth did the 4Kids and Nick Turtles go through? Aside from Mirage and maybe the 1st movie how much change have ANY version of the Turtles gone through?

Man, so much this.

4Kids Mikey had some good spotlight episodes (Unconvincing Turtle Titan, Touch and Go, Grudge Match) but the overall arc of his character was basically deterioration into a parody of himself.

4Kids Leo had some interesting development in season 4, but I'm not sure he was truly "grown" after they finished that arc. Nick Leo at least had the guts to explain his voice actor change as a result of the injuries sustained by the Foot Clan. And if Chompy ends up being the reason the world is destroyed in Nick, how much growth can we say Raph went through after letting Slash grow up and then not being able to let go of Chompy when Momma Tokka came looking for him?

CyberCubed
09-17-2017, 11:49 AM
The Turtles never really grow or change out of their established character traits in any series. Sure, they go through character arcs sometimes like Leo in Season 4 of 2k3 series, but after it ends they go back to the way they were.

The Turtles never change that much in any series from beginning to end. Partly because they're kids shows, and partly because if they lose their established character quirks they'd feel like completely different characters. I don't know why people are acting like this is something new.

Sometimes I honestly wonder if we're watching the same series, that some of us have to "explain" what goes on to everyone.

pferreira
09-21-2017, 10:22 AM
Considering this was a troll thread I think this so called 'thread' should be closed.

It's almost like people fail to realize most 80's-90's cartoons were designed with episodic stories because the channels aired the episodes all out of order. Even Batman: TAS was like this with standalone episodes that you can watch all out of order, besides the very first ep that introduces each villain. Nobody watched Batman: TAS in proper order back in the day when it first aired.It's only kids like neatoman who don't get you can have episodic storytelling that isn't part of an arc. TV in the 80s and 90s had great TV that was episodic and didn't rely on serialisation. It's more about educating people of today's generation who are misguided into thinking the only good TV or film is that that is serialised. It does backfire in movies of course as studios now try to get trilogies up and running instead of making sure the first movie in a series is any good. What it all comes down to is ignorance of today's generation.

Splinter had his arc too though. As others mentioned, he started out wishing to be human again, but eventually became content with his new existance and overcame Rat King's control.Yep, forgot about that one. Good point. :)

No it's more like you failed to realize that Andrew was trolling and you took the bait.We know it's trolling by Andrew and I hope the mods are taking notice of that but since the FW series had character arcs his attempt to troll pretty much failed. :lol:

Andrew our resident troll...

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/at-least-you-tried.jpg

Yeah but you're following a character through a plot, if the characters are in service of the plot rather than the plot serving the characters then there's not that much reason to care.Erm, er, er...huh???

http://i.imgur.com/sIxcCLQ.gif :D

First Mr Thursday and now this guy coupled with most people who still can't get over TF after almost a decade, what's up with this forum and 30+ year old men so attached to kids' cartoon they can't have a sense of humor about it? Or worse yet, still act like the 5 year olds it was meant for?Being a 14 year old must be fun, complaining about all those loser 30+ who still like a TV show from when they were '8' (5 my arse). I mean how dare they? Yep neatoman when I was 14 I can't say I was a total ignorant fan who thought the IDW comic (which is arguably the most disrespectful to TMNT) was perfection but had a go at anything that wasn't. I complained that nobody wants to see episodic TV, that the 80s had no good cartoons while comparing a cartoon made explicitly to sell toys (The Transformers) to a cartoon that was out to just make TMNT more recognisable while selling toys. When I was 14 I educated myself and gave a fair shot to stuff from the past, I learned to appreciate stuff from the past compared to now. Now I realise I got it all wrong and that I should of been acting like you. Did you know I'm being sarcastic? That's what happens when you reach 30 neatoman and have to deal with whiny teens like yourself. :P

Andrew joked about how the show stayed the same for 169 episodes just so it could be watched in almost any random order, what's there to get mad about when that's what it did?People will start talking you seriously when you stop trolling shows you dislike thanks. ;)