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FredWolfLeonardo
09-14-2017, 02:29 PM
I couldn't find a thread dedicated to this so I decided to make my own. This is the thread where you'll able to talk about where you think the FW crossovers we've had so so far (Turtles Forever, TransDimensional Turtles, Wanted Bebop and Rocksteady) fit onto the original cartoon's timeline. No theory is off limits, so fully geek out and have fun analyzing! :)

I personally don't believe that Turtles Forever is canon to the Original Cartoon but I do believe that the Nick crossovers are so I'll be analyzing their crossovers (Trans-Dimensional Turtles, Wanted Bebop and Rocksteady), down to the smallest of details to pinpoint EXACTLY where I think it would fit into the Original Cartoon's timeline. I'll put my analysis in spoiler tags so those who haven't seen the 2nd crossover yet won't have it immediately spoiled for themselves.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-14-2017, 02:52 PM
The Technodrome setting in the beginning of "Wanted: Bebop & Rocksteady" looks like season 3 of the 1987-1996 series.

neatoman
09-14-2017, 03:18 PM
I've already touched on this before but what I think is going on with the Nick multiverse is that you're not really seeing the Mirage Turtles or the FW Turtles, just general ideas of the major TMNT incarnations.

The main clue for this is that there only 10 dimensions, they're quite explicit about that on multiple occasions. Now if we were to add up any previously explicit dimension hopping or otherwise incompatiple depictions, we'd end up with something like this:

Mirage
Mark Martin's TMNT
Hedden/McWeeny TMNT
Mike Zulli TMNT
Image TMNT
Moo-Mesa
Sakai Usagi
The 79th Dimension of Null Time
Mirage Super Turtles
Fred Wolf TMNT
FW Dimension X
FW Video Games
Archie Comics
Archie Dimension X
Live-Action TMNT
The Next Mutation
The 4Kids show
4Kids Dimension of 79th Dimension of Null Time
Battle Nexus
4Kids Usagi
SAINW Universe
IDW TMNT
GhostBusters
Mutants in Manhattan
Bopsteady universe
IDW Dimension X


Incomplete but you get the idea, no way in hell only 10 realities can exist if we are to assume we're really seeing the original versions of the characters. Also, if the FW Turtles in the Nick show really are the FW Turtles, then you'd have to pretend none of these are canon:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/7/77/Krangazoids.png/revision/latest?cb=20130709010145https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/5/59/General_Traag.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20081122220854

So what I'm proposing instead is that the 10 Dimensions are not the past TMNT incarnations but rather some weird reflection of them and their most closely related material:

Mirage
Usagi
Fred Wolf/Archie
Live-Action/TNM/TMNT'07
4Kids/Dreamwave
IDW
Bayturtles
Hell
Dimension X

Powder
09-14-2017, 03:20 PM
Too much mental gymnastics to worry about.

ToTheNines
09-14-2017, 03:27 PM
The Technodrome setting in the beginning of "Wanted: Bebop & Rocksteady" looks like season 3 of the 1987-1996 series.

Yeah, plus the fact that Krang needed to power the Technodrome after using the portal made it feel like it was season 3 era.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-14-2017, 03:31 PM
Yeah, plus the fact that Krang needed to power the Technodrome after using the portal made it feel like it was season 3 era.

Late-season 3 to be more exact. Like "Bye Bye Fly" when Shredder can't open the portal.

ToTheNines
09-14-2017, 03:35 PM
Late-season 3 to be more exact. Like "Bye Bye Fly" when Shredder can't open the portal.

Ah, good catch.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-14-2017, 04:25 PM
Starting with Trans-Dimensional Turtles, I'd firstly like to address Krang's backstory in the Nick toon and how It can be reconciled with the original Cartoon's timeline. I already did this in another thread so I won't copy it again, but I'll put a link to my post in that thread:

http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1644250&postcount=4

Alright, now that that is done, lets move on to the actual episode itself. The easiest way to determine the timeline of the Original Cartoon is through the location of the technodrome, which changes every season. From being Underground in season 1, in Dimension X in season 2, the Bottom of the Earth's core in season 3, you get the point.

In TransDimensional Turtles, the technodrome is first seen in Dimension X when the 80s and 2k12 Turtles' Dimensional Travel is hacked by Kraang Subprime. This might initially allude to the viewer that the 1st crossover takes place perhaps during the 2nd or the 4th season of the series, since the technodrome is in Dimension X. However, season 2 will have to ruled out of the equation because in the episode "The Manhattan Project/Wormquake", 80s Casey Jones was seen walking with the Turtles which would've only been possible if he met them which happened in the season 3 episode "Casey Jones Outlaw Hero".

This leaves us with season 4, as it is the only Non-red sky season in which the technodrome is in Dimension X. However, there is an interesting twist that must be considered before concluding that the TransDimensional Turtles episode takes place during season 4 of the Original Cartoon. Krang needs assistance to reach Dimension X from the Kraang and access the technodrome, which would've not been the case in the Original Cartoon because not only was Krang INSIDE Dimension X during season 4 but also had access to the technodrome's TransDimensional Portal in case it wasn't in Dimension X.

This leaves us with only one possibility for the events of the crossover, that Krang must have been seperate from the technodrome in order for him to demand assistance from the Kraang, which he had never done before. Is there an instance in the Original Cartoon where Krang was seperated from the technodrome and all sorts of Dimensional Travel? Yes! It was in between the season 7 finale "Shredder Triumphant" and the season 8 premiere "Get Shredder" when the villains were seperated from the technodrome and all sorts of Dimensional Travel, thus needing outside help that they otherwise would've not considered, especially since the Kraang were an enemy to Krang.

It also helps that Krang was seperated from the technodrome again at the end of TransDimensional Turtles and where is the technodrome at the start of season 8? Stranded in Dimension X but without Krang in it.

But how did the crossover result in the Red Sky and changed aesthetics of the 8th season? Thats where the 2nd Crossover comes into play.

It starts with the technodrome at the bottom of the earth's core which is like season 3 but as has been established before, the crossover cannot take place during season 3 due to the technodrome's location. So it must be assumed that off screen, Shredder and Krang managed to retrieve the technodrome again shortly after losing it at the end of season 7, this time having it at the bottom of the earth's core again to avoid detection from the turtles, which ultimately fails as the 80s turtles are able to follow Bebop and Rocksteady and find out that the technodrome has travelled to the 2k12 Dimension.

Next, the technodrome is seen wrecking havoc upon the 2k12 Dimension, and the turtles talk of sending it back to Dimension X. At the end of the episode, the rock soldiers are sent back to Dimension X, Shredder and Krang are captured by the turtles and taken back to the 80s World and the technodrome is heavily damaged by Bebop and Rocksteady, but not outright destroyed. There is no reason to assume that the turtles would've not sent the Technodrome back to Dimension X later on, as keeping it in the middle of New York city would've been impractical and they talked of sending it back to Dimension X anyway, which they later did WITHOUT the villains. So by sending the technodrome back to Dimension X in a black hole without the villains, the events of the Red Sky seasons are set to start as we know them.

However, there is one last question, how did 80's Bebop and Rocksteady re-ally themselves with Shredder and Krang after they seemed to be changing sides? The question can be answered by the looking at the progression of the entire series from episode 1. Bebop and Rocksteady started out as street punks who worked for Shredder and really had no other purpose in life, even before being mutated. After becoming a Mutant Rhino and a Warthog, they never questioned being his henchmen and were content with their position unlike Nick Bebop and Rocksteady who did question their position as henchmen throughout the series. So it would naturally follow that when given an opportunity to leave their role as villains, 80s Bebop and Rocksteady would've most likely rejected the Turtles' offer to not be villains as they had grown attached to Shredder and Krang leading them, resulting in them rescuing their bosses from the turtles and continuing to stick with them all the way until the end of Turtle Trek, after which it is implied that they may have been killed unfortunately due to their blind loyalty. They also could've gotten alot more serious as in the Red Sky seasons after they realize how dear Shredder and Krang were to their life and purpose after previously being oblivious to it and not realizing how their status as villains was being threatened by the turtles.

As for the aesthetic changes (The Red Sky, turtles using their weapons more, Shredder and Krang becoming more serious and bloodthirsty,
I chalk it up to Dimensional Disturbances caused by the crossovers between the FW and Nick characters which caused the FW universe to undergo a complete visual overhaul. As the FW turtles became fully adapted to the Nick turtles' fighting style, it became more than likely that they used some of those tactics more often in their home Dimension, and this is more often the case in the Red Sky seasons when they use their weapons directly more often. Shredder and Krang, after being seperated from the technodrome once again, being bertrayed by Nick Bebop and Rocksteady and allegedly having been rescued by 80s B&R would've not only become more serious, but also much closer together as they are shown to care for each other throughout their appearances in the Red Sky seasons, with Shredder going as far as to rescue Krang when he was at mercy of Dregg or the Turtles.

So In conclusion, after all that analysis, this is my timeline of where the Crossovers take place Exactly in the timeline of the Original Cartoon:


1.Shredder Triumphant: Shredder, Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady are seperated from the technodrome, which is sent to Dimension X.

2.TransDimensional Turtles: Stranded on 2D Earth, Krang contacts his old contacts in the Kraang to help him have access to Dimension X once more, but is banished by Kraang Subrpime once again at the end, leaving him seperated from the Technodrome again.

3.Wanted Bebop and Rocksteady: Shredder and Krang manage to retrieve the technodrome again off screen, this time intending to conquer the 2k12 universe together but their plans are ultimately foiled by Nick Bebop and Rocksteady. The technodrome is sent back to Dimension X, stuck in a black hole without the main villains and Shredder and Krang are brought to the 80s Dimension, where their Bebop and Rocksteady rescue them after deciding to stay villains.

4.Get Shredder: Due to the Dimensional Disturbances of the previous crossovers, the aesthetic of the 80s world has changed and possibly even the 2k12 universe (judging by the apocalyptic setting) but Shredder, Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady are all back together again, deciding to conduct their operations in the Hall of Science building where they can once again regain access to the technodrome and Dimension X. The Red Sky episodes as we know them start from this point onwards.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-14-2017, 04:44 PM
Season 4 isn't a red sky year.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-14-2017, 04:46 PM
Season 4 isn't a red sky year.

Oops, my bad. Corrected my original post.

pferreira
09-14-2017, 05:13 PM
Late-season 3 to be more exact. Like "Bye Bye Fly" when Shredder can't open the portal.Yep that seems about right.

CyberCubed
09-14-2017, 06:09 PM
Technodrome is underground in the second Nick crossover, it's only logical place is sometime during Season 3. Most likely toward the end of the season.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-17-2017, 04:36 AM
Archie Dimension X

There are some indications of Dimension X being a galaxy, just like the Milky Way Galaxy or the 2003-2009 series' Theta Galaxy, and that's definately the truth in the Archieverse.

ToTheNines
09-17-2017, 08:07 AM
@FWLeo

Finally got around to reading your super long post, and I agree. You make some very good points and they do have to be in between seasons 7 and 8.

Which is kinda cool, because I personally think Turtles Forever branches off from Shredder Triumphant. So when I do my next marathon, I'll go Triumphant-Forever-Transdimensional/Wanted-Get Shredder, once I get to that point.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-17-2017, 10:26 AM
If I was put Turtles Forever somewhere, it would be after season 10 but I think it works after Triumphant as well.

ToTheNines
09-17-2017, 10:36 AM
If I was put Turtles Forever somewhere, it would be after season 10 but I think it works after Triumphant as well.

Yeah, if you're trying to make it canon then I agree. It would have to be after the finale, just for the Technodrome renovation.

But I personally see it as branching off and forming its own new continuity. Shredder Triumphant just works best because we see the turtles invading the Technodrome as it rolls through the city streets during daytime.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-17-2017, 11:27 AM
I wonder how it would be if we as children, sitting watching an episode, would know that we would sit here 25-30 years later, stuck with trying to figure out all this. :)

Panda_Kahn_fan
09-17-2017, 09:10 PM
I wonder if they mean there are ten base realities, and other realities that branch out of those ten, the way nine of them first branched out of turtles prime.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-17-2017, 09:58 PM
I'd also be interested in knowing whether Dimension X and Usagi's world count as a part of Reality 7 (The Nick Universe) or are they seperate?

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-19-2017, 05:21 AM
We also have the Fleetway comics. (In turn, the Fleetway comics have criminal counterparts of the turtles, living on an alternate Earth)

Panda_Kahn_fan
09-19-2017, 10:19 AM
I dunno.... there are separate, unconnected Usagi universes for the OT, 4kids, and Mirage/IDW universes (mirage and IDW having a joint Usagi)

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-19-2017, 12:16 PM
I dunno.... there are separate, unconnected Usagi universes for the OT, 4kids, and Mirage/IDW universes (mirage and IDW having a joint Usagi)

You mean if the story is changed, or the same story again?