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View Full Version : If you were President, what would your policies be?


Andrew NDB
09-18-2017, 04:39 PM
https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/head-question-mark.jpg

Let's hear them. Assuming you could pass whatever you wanted.

Powder
09-18-2017, 04:43 PM
My first policy would be "No more political threads on The Technodrome Forums", I think.

ToTheNines
09-18-2017, 04:57 PM
I would be a pretty revolutionary president.

My policies would be as follows... brace yourselves:

http://www.paradisoinsurance.com/files/2015/11/bill-of-rights.gif

plastroncafe
09-18-2017, 05:02 PM
So the Bill of Rights, abridged.

ToTheNines
09-18-2017, 05:08 PM
So the Bill of Rights, abridged.

Yeah, **** all that extra ****.

TurtleWA
09-18-2017, 05:24 PM
https://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/head-question-mark.jpg

Let's hear them. Assuming you could pass whatever you wanted.

Are you going to let us in on what the first 100 days of a Modeen presidency would look like?

Andrew NDB
09-18-2017, 06:21 PM
Are you going to let us in on what the first 100 days of a Modeen presidency would look like?

I think I would be very unpopular.

* Everyone given "temporary" sterilization that can be removed by a government doctor. You have to apply for a parenting license at 18 and prove your income/ability to take care of child.
* Maximum 2 kids. Only exception is if one dies. If you break the law on this, you pay a huge fine. This would be going forward, of course... if you already have 10 kids when this is passed you're fine, but have an 11th and be prepared to pay the price.
* Remove all organized religion-based anything from... well, anything to do with schools, the Armed Forces, or the government itself. It has no place in any of that.
* Hard on immigration. No travel ban, but definitely scrutiny. DACA stays gone, but come up with a fair and just path to citizenship for Dreamers that is also equivalent to what normal immigrants (i.e., legal immigrants) have to go through. They can stay during this process. Now, if this pathway to citizenship is not followed or at least attempted, then they are deported. If other countries want to volunteer to take them, so be it, that can be an option. Service in the Armed Forces for a minimum of 5 years should be an option which guarantees citizenship.
* Come up with a better healthcare plan. It wouldn't be Obamacare and there would be no penalty for not having it, so maybe something federally enforced but tailored to each state? There is no easy answer, but I'm not sure single-payer is the way to go either, long term.
* Come up with a 5-10 year plan to completely remove any and all dependence on fossil fuels. Implement it. Enforce it. No more drilling, fracking, off-shore business, none of that. Shut it all down.
* Refund Planned Parenthood. Entirely.
* Throw a lot of money into NASA and the space program. Let's stop dicking around with unmanned probes and telescopes and actually do something again.
* Bring down student loans. Way down.
* Remove attention from raising minimum wages while looking at the housing and rental markets in all states. Freeze and/or bring down the "cost of living" back down to realistic levels.
* Get rid of the crazy gun laws on the books. "Andrew has been angry lately, I don't know what he'll do!" should never be grounds for police to come and confiscate your guns.
* LGBTQ stuff, leave it all up to the individual states. Better them make the call than me.
* Drinking age reduced to 18. Old enough to die in the Army, old enough to drink, I say.
* Return smoking to bars. Wussies.
* On this note, bring down the "sin tax" on alcohol and cigarettes. It's getting outrageous.
* Ban Fred Wolf TMNT. You so much as have a "Cowabunga dudes!" T-shirt in public, you're doing prison time.
* Make an executive order that Peter Laird needs to finish TMNT Volume 4.

I'm kidding on one of these. :)

ProphetofGanja
09-18-2017, 06:28 PM
Progressive, humanitarian, socialist/libertarian

ToTheNines
09-18-2017, 06:29 PM
Other than the stuff at the end, pretty much all extremely authoritarian and of dubious constitutional viability.

Would not vote Modeen/Cubed 2020.

Powder
09-18-2017, 06:43 PM
I think I would be very unpopular.

* Everyone given "temporary" sterilization that can be removed by a government doctor. You have to apply for a parenting license at 18 and prove your income/ability to take care of child.
* Maximum 2 kids. Only exception is if one dies. If you break the law on this, you pay a huge fine. This would be going forward, of course... if you already have 10 kids when this is passed you're fine, but have an 11th and be prepared to pay the price.
* Remove all organized religion-based anything from... well, anything to do with schools, the Armed Forces, or the government itself. It has no place in any of that.
* Hard on immigration. No travel ban, but definitely scrutiny. DACA stays gone, but come up with a fair and just path to citizenship for Dreamers that is also equivalent to what normal immigrants (i.e., legal immigrants) have to go through. They can stay during this process. Now, if this pathway to citizenship is not followed or at least attempted, then they are deported. If other countries want to volunteer to take them, so be it, that can be an option. Service in the Armed Forces for a minimum of 5 years should be an option which guarantees citizenship.
* Come up with a better healthcare plan. It wouldn't be Obamacare and there would be no penalty for not having it, so maybe something federally enforced but tailored to each state? There is no easy answer, but I'm not sure single-payer is the way to go either, long term.
* Come up with a 5-10 year plan to completely remove any and all dependence on fossil fuels. Implement it. Enforce it. No more drilling, fracking, off-shore business, none of that. Shut it all down.
* Refund Planned Parenthood. Entirely.
* Throw a lot of money into NASA and the space program. Let's stop dicking around with unmanned probes and telescopes and actually do something again.
* Bring down student loans. Way down.
* Remove attention from raising minimum wages while looking at the housing and rental markets in all states. Freeze and/or bring down the "cost of living" back down to realistic levels.
* Get rid of the crazy gun laws on the books. "Andrew has been angry lately, I don't know what he'll do!" should never be grounds for police to come and confiscate your guns.
* LGBTQ stuff, leave it all up to the individual states. Better them make the call than me.
* Drinking age reduced to 18. Old enough to die in the Army, old enough to drink, I say.
* Return smoking to bars. Wussies.
* On this note, bring down the "sin tax" on alcohol and cigarettes. It's getting outrageous.
* Ban Fred Wolf TMNT. You so much as have a "Cowabunga dudes!" T-shirt in public, you're doing prison time.
* Make an executive order that Peter Laird needs to finish TMNT Volume 4.

I'm kidding on one of these. :)

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/041/662/1267268144448.jpg

Prowler
09-18-2017, 06:47 PM
I think I would be very unpopular.

* Everyone given "temporary" sterilization that can be removed by a government doctor. You have to apply for a parenting license at 18 and prove your income/ability to take care of child.
* Maximum 2 kids. Only exception is if one dies. If you break the law on this, you pay a huge fine. This would be going forward, of course... if you already have 10 kids when this is passed you're fine, but have an 11th and be prepared to pay the price.
* Remove all organized religion-based anything from... well, anything to do with schools, the Armed Forces, or the government itself. It has no place in any of that.
* Hard on immigration. No travel ban, but definitely scrutiny. DACA stays gone, but come up with a fair and just path to citizenship for Dreamers that is also equivalent to what normal immigrants (i.e., legal immigrants) have to go through. They can stay during this process. Now, if this pathway to citizenship is not followed or at least attempted, then they are deported. If other countries want to volunteer to take them, so be it, that can be an option. Service in the Armed Forces for a minimum of 5 years should be an option which guarantees citizenship.
* Come up with a better healthcare plan. It wouldn't be Obamacare and there would be no penalty for not having it, so maybe something federally enforced but tailored to each state? There is no easy answer, but I'm not sure single-payer is the way to go either, long term.
* Come up with a 5-10 year plan to completely remove any and all dependence on fossil fuels. Implement it. Enforce it. No more drilling, fracking, off-shore business, none of that. Shut it all down.
* Refund Planned Parenthood. Entirely.
* Throw a lot of money into NASA and the space program. Let's stop dicking around with unmanned probes and telescopes and actually do something again.
* Bring down student loans. Way down.
* Remove attention from raising minimum wages while looking at the housing and rental markets in all states. Freeze and/or bring down the "cost of living" back down to realistic levels.
* Get rid of the crazy gun laws on the books. "Andrew has been angry lately, I don't know what he'll do!" should never be grounds for police to come and confiscate your guns.
* LGBTQ stuff, leave it all up to the individual states. Better them make the call than me.
* Drinking age reduced to 18. Old enough to die in the Army, old enough to drink, I say.
* Return smoking to bars. Wussies.
* On this note, bring down the "sin tax" on alcohol and cigarettes. It's getting outrageous.
* Ban Fred Wolf TMNT. You so much as have a "Cowabunga dudes!" T-shirt in public, you're doing prison time.
* Make an executive order that Peter Laird needs to finish TMNT Volume 4.

I'm kidding on one of these. :)

I bet it's this: * Get rid of the crazy gun laws on the books. "Andrew has been angry lately, I don't know what he'll do!" should never be grounds for police to come and confiscate your guns.

ToTheNines
09-18-2017, 07:00 PM
I bet it's this: * Get rid of the crazy gun laws on the books. "Andrew has been angry lately, I don't know what he'll do!" should never be grounds for police to come and confiscate your guns.

Nah, Andrew is sensible on gun rights.

I'd wager banning FAKE TMNT, based on the stuff he added after editing. From the stuff from before he edited, I have to assume the sterilization thing was a joke.

Prowler
09-18-2017, 07:18 PM
Nah, Andrew is sensible on gun rights.

I'd wager banning FAKE TMNT, based on the stuff he added after editing. From the stuff from before he edited, I have to assume the sterilization thing was a joke.

* Ban Fred Wolf TMNT. You so much as have a "Cowabunga dudes!" T-shirt in public, you're doing prison time.

I don't think he was joking there, knowing how much he seems to hate family friendly TMNT :tlol:

Shark_Blade
09-18-2017, 07:22 PM
Male rapists should have their penis chopped off.

ToTheNines
09-18-2017, 07:23 PM
Male rapists should have their penis chopped off.

Well, now we know what's wrong with Sharkie. Good thread.

MsMarvelDuckie
09-18-2017, 08:02 PM
Actually I'd agree with that one. Permanent eunoch for the first offence. Rape or even attempting such should be met with severe punishment to deter such behavior.

As for platforms, surprisingly enough I agree with most of Andrew's ideas. MOST of them. (For LGBTQ matters, I would make it part of the Constitution that they have all the same rights and privliges- and citizenship responsibilities- as anyone else.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-18-2017, 08:28 PM
* Ban Fred Wolf TMNT. You so much as have a "Cowabunga dudes!" T-shirt in public, you're doing prison time.


I was pretty optimistic about your list until this :lol:

And I'm pretty sure the one you were joking about was Laird and Volume 4.

Andrew NDB
09-18-2017, 08:56 PM
We've talked about this in another thread, but abortion:

* Abortion kept fully legal in all states. It is to be encouraged, even mandated under certain circumstances ("welfare queens," etc.). I'm even OK with it being fully government funded if they're unable to pay... I actually don't mind at all paying a bit more in taxes to reduce the riff-raff out there.

TurtleWA
09-18-2017, 09:47 PM
We've talked about this in another thread, but abortion:

* Abortion kept fully legal in all states. It is to be encouraged, even mandated under certain circumstances ("welfare queens," etc.). I'm even OK with it being fully government funded if they're unable to pay... I actually don't mind at all paying a bit more in taxes to reduce the riff-raff out there.

Doesn't the economy need "riff-raff?"

snake
09-18-2017, 11:09 PM
1- We're getting rid of this checks and balances sh*t

Andrew NDB
09-18-2017, 11:29 PM
Doesn't the economy need "riff-raff?"

Less demand, the less the need for supply.

Wildcat
09-19-2017, 12:20 AM
I would never want to be President...but hypothetically speaking I'd reveal any proof of extraterrestrials.

Policies? All city maintenance starts no earlier than 9:30am. I can't stand being woken up by construction work at 7am. This goes for residential too. No lawnmowers either. :lol:

I know I would not limit people to only have 2 kids or ban religion in public places (I don't even understand this one...it's not like the government runs on religious beliefs)

Obviously don't push your religion on others but that's already established even though some still do it.

ProactiveMan
09-19-2017, 02:59 AM
Your constitution prohibits me from being president. Too bad, because I have some really good ideas.


More paid holidays. I’m thinking of leaving a suggestion box next to the Lincoln Memorial. I’ll kick things off with Mortal Monday: commemorating those who chose their destiny, and gave their lives in Mortal Kombat. Excellent.
Serious monument upgrades, i.e. Double or triple the size of the Washington Monument (pending an engineering assessment), add bodies to Mount Rushmore, fill the reflecting pool with lovely koi carp, and place a giant Maneki-neko in front of the treasury building.
Rationalise Airforce One, Two, Three etc. Real Ghostbusters style. Airforce One can still be a plane, but Two is now a single-seat gyrocopter, and Three is a souped-up go-cart.
Move the House of Reps to the cloud and run all policy through Rotten Tomatoes. Bills will only be enshrined into law when they are certified fresh.
Nationalise important resources like Apple Computer. Those turtle-necked robber barons have horded that precious phone money for long enough… now it belongs to the people. The people can buy more phones with it if they want to.
Catch the Brits unaware and Trademark the English language, then collect royalties every time someone use it. We’ll either make a fortune, or repopularise French.
Standardise pizza.
Give Elon Musk 12 months to put someone on the moon or he has to pay back all the tax credits.
Demote the Electoral College to Electoral Fraternity/Sorority and put it on double secrete probation. Henceforth, no one shall be declared President of these United States before enduring 100 licks of the inauguration paddle, declaring “Thank you Mr Speaker, may I have another.”
I will try my damnedest to enshrine Half-Price Tuesday into the constitution.

Refractive Reflections
09-19-2017, 07:07 PM
Actually I'd agree with that one. Permanent eunoch for the first offence. Rape or even attempting such should be met with severe punishment to deter such behavior.

As for platforms, surprisingly enough I agree with most of Andrew's ideas. MOST of them. (For LGBTQ matters, I would make it part of the Constitution that they have all the same rights and privliges- and citizenship responsibilities- as anyone else.

Don't forget incest couples. Shouldn't they all have the same rights and privileges too as anyone else? If we're following today's cultural logic of "consenting adults", then society should accept it then. Otherwise it would be hypocritical of the LGBTQ community, since they would be placing their own rules against what's considered "love" while criticizing other conservative groups about imposing their rules on them.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/mother-says-sex-son-incredible-7712560
http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2015/01/what-its-like-to-date-your-dad.html
https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2003/may/17/weekend7.weekend2
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/01/23/adult-incest-and-the-law/?utm_term=.9f619e782b22
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/sibling-incest-should-be-legal-says-danish-professor-of-criminal-justice-et

Cure
09-19-2017, 07:14 PM
You sure know a lot about incest.

Refractive Reflections
09-19-2017, 07:18 PM
You sure know a lot about incest.

Being somewhat of a news junkie, when you have these online articles (i.e. Washington Post, The Guardian, The Mirror) posting about it, and bringing up the issue. Naturally, it will make it's way up into the mainstream, including the social and legal aspects of it.

ToTheNines
09-19-2017, 07:35 PM
If we're following today's cultural logic of "consenting adults", then society should accept it then.

Here's where you're off. Society doesn't have to accept it, but you shouldn't be able to implement government force against it.

Do you seriously log in to a TMNT forum to SOLELY, rail against progressivism?

Powder
09-20-2017, 12:27 AM
Do you seriously log in to a TMNT forum to SOLELY, rail against progressivism?

Let's not act like there aren't some people who do the same on the other side of the coin.

ToTheNines
09-20-2017, 03:54 AM
Let's not act like there aren't some people who do the same on the other side of the coin.

Oh, they're even worse

The lefties have yet to show their ass in this thread though. I'm just dealing with the loon at hand.

Krutch
09-20-2017, 07:13 AM
http://www.metalsucks.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/million-juggalo-march-1000x500.jpg

BubblyShell22
09-20-2017, 08:00 AM
Here's where you're off. Society doesn't have to accept it, but you shouldn't be able to implement government force against it.

Do you seriously log in to a TMNT forum to SOLELY, rail against progressivism?

I agree with Nines here. No one should be forced to accept anything and people just need to get over it. Not everyone believes in homosexuality or agrees with the transgender lifestyle. That's just the way it goes, but people continue to complain and act like everyone should conform when they don't have to.

As for my policies, the main thing I would want to do is just get better healthcare and make it so insurance companies can't limit the elderly to things they need as well as people recovering from strokes and such. One example is that for my dad's catheter, insurance will only allow one catheter kit per month and not allow a spare so that means Mom has to buy a spare herself in case we need one. I would make it so insurance companies would have to adhere to giving the patient whatever they need and not limiting them.

Also, doctors should treat patients as people and not numbers and should be allowed to spend as much time with their patients as they want to. It used to be that doctors would treat people like actual people and really want to know more about them. Nowadays, you're just a number and nothing more and that's a shame.

I would also make abortion illegal with no exceptions and would treat it as a murder. Doctors who perform abortions would have their licenses revoked and face prison time or the death penalty depending on the state. Same goes for the woman. Those who get pregnant as a result of rape or incest would undergo counseling and then have the choice of either keeping the baby or placing it for adoption.

Transgenders would not be allowed to use the bathroom of their identified gender unless they have fully transitioned though a separate bathroom would be implemented in a unisex capacity for those who wish to do that and to make people who may not be comfortable with a transgender using the bathroom feel more at ease.

Protesting in a peaceful manner would still be allowed but any rioting or looting would result in either prison time or community service to fix whatever damage the person caused. They would also be banned from ever protesting again.

The right to bear arms will continue as such but if someone uses their gun in a malicious manner to cause harm, said rights will be revoked from that person and they will never be allowed to use a gun again.

Illegal immigrants would be able to obtain citizenship in an easier manner if they have lived here for a certain number of years. Children of illegals shall not be deported and all families shall be able to obtain citizenship.

Those who need disability shall be able to have it if a doctor has approved it. Those who try to get disability and are not approved by a doctor shall be denied.

Other than that, I really can't think of anything else. However, I would never really want to be President because you have to play all kinds of dishonest games and that's not my forte.

plastroncafe
09-20-2017, 01:12 PM
So much, "I've got mine, eff you!" so little time.

ProphetofGanja
09-20-2017, 01:28 PM
I would also make abortion illegal with no exceptions and would treat it as a murder. Doctors who perform abortions would have their licenses revoked and face prison time or the death penalty depending on the state. Same goes for the woman. Those who get pregnant as a result of rape or incest would undergo counseling and then have the choice of either keeping the baby or placing it for adoption.

So when the number of children up for adoption keeps going up, what are you going to do with them? When more and more children are pulled into foster care because their parents were unable to care for them, either because they are financially insolvent or they never really wanted kids in the first place, what would you do with them?

Andrew NDB
09-20-2017, 01:31 PM
So when the number of children up for adoption keeps going up, what are you going to do with them? When more and more children are pulled into foster care because their parents were unable to care for them, either because they are financially insolvent or they never really wanted kids in the first place, what would you do with them?

Send them to BubblyShell22's house.

plastroncafe
09-20-2017, 01:40 PM
Must be great to live in Larry's world.
A magical place where women never have complications during pregnancy.
But I'll never know, because gay people apparently don't exist there.

...

Maybe if everyone claps their hands, and believes hard enough, Larry WILL believe in fairies.

Candy Kappa
09-20-2017, 01:41 PM
I see BubblyShell22 is a fan of back-alley coat-hanger abortions, not even surprised.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
09-20-2017, 01:46 PM
The thing about having a religious faith or background is that you can still have it and not demean or impose on everyone else.

Even if your religion or your God or your faith tells you that such and such is wrong or sinful, you are still beholden to treat those people with respect and dignity. We're all human--so treat each other like it.

Just because God created you special doesn't mean that everybody else isn't.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-20-2017, 01:46 PM
I see BubblyShell22 is a fan of back-alley coat-hanger abortions, not even surprised.

No she's not. Its like saying someone is a fan of black market drug trade because they support illegalizing drugs.

plastroncafe
09-20-2017, 01:49 PM
No she's not. Its like saying someone is a fan of black market drug trade because they support illegalizing drugs.

Yeah, fan is a strong word.
Tolerant is probably a better fit.

I mean, the prohibitionists weren't actively seeking to start bootlegging and the violence that it created, but they were more than happy to turn a blind eye to it, provided it they didn't see it.

Candy Kappa
09-20-2017, 01:59 PM
No she's not. Its like saying someone is a fan of black market drug trade because they support illegalizing drugs.

'fan' may have been a bit hyperbolic, but still stands. You can't ban abortions, only safe abortions.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-20-2017, 02:02 PM
Its like saying you can't ban stealing.

Its an unchangeable reality, people will steal but is it banned in virtually all countries? Absolutely, and people who are wholeheartedly against it will try and prevent it at any cost, whether their efforts are in vain or not.

Its all about how you approach Morality. To a person against Abortion, the value lies not in the outside consequences as much as it lies in the act itself intrinsically. Abortion itself is wrong to the pro-lifer no matter what, no exceptions.

plastroncafe
09-20-2017, 02:07 PM
Which is why it must be nice to live in the world where that's a viable dichotomy to live by. Black and white. Nice and neat.

But I don't live in that world. I live in the world where not every fetus develops normally. And where not every zygote implants where in a place that can sustain it. And not every body that can get pregnant is physically capable of carrying that pregnancy to term.

Because genetics isn't binary. It isn't black and white. Nice and neat.
Bodies are stupid and nature is cruel.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
09-20-2017, 02:08 PM
I'll freely admit, if I had to choose between my wife and a child, and abortion were an option, it would be a very long, hard choice.

And I'm not sure the government belongs in that decision by preemptively telling me "Abortion ain't happening so you're losing your wife either way... hope the kid makes it!"

FredWolfLeonardo
09-20-2017, 02:14 PM
Which is why it must be nice to live in the world where that's a viable dichotomy to live by. Black and white. Nice and neat.

Genetics isn't binary. It isn't black and white. Nice and neat.
Bodies are stupid and nature is cruel.

Exactly, it all comes down to ultimate authority, the lens through which one sees all the world.

For a person who places value on material things and makes them their idol, pain and suffering are devastating and the sign of a cruel world whereas a believer still experiences pain and hardship but doesn't place any of his value on the pain or the pleasure but on something beyond it. To him or her, nature is painful and brutal like it is to everyone else but beyond it lies a beauty it has in it of itself.

But I'm getting ahead of myself here and wouldn't want to go off topic. Continue discussing your presidential policies everyone.

plastroncafe
09-20-2017, 02:18 PM
Exactly, it all comes down to ultimate authority, the lens through which one sees all the world.

For a person who places value on material things and makes them their idol, pain and suffering are devastating and the sign of a cruel world whereas a believer still experiences pain and hardship but doesn't place any of his value on the pain or the pleasure but on something beyond it. To him or her, nature is painful and brutal like it is to everyone else but beyond it lies a beauty it has in it of itself.

But I'm getting ahead of myself here and wouldn't want to go off topic. Continue discussing your presidential policies everyone.

By this definition, the believers lack empathy, if they're willing to overlook the pain and hardship of others for their own glimpse of the beauty beyond.

Or, as I like to refer to the same scenario:
I've go mine, eff you.

Andrew NDB
09-20-2017, 02:20 PM
I'll freely admit, if I had to choose between my wife and a child, and abortion were an option, it would be a very long, hard choice.

Wife would win for sure. No one remembers being born and you can always have another rugrat or adopt.

FredWolfLeonardo
09-20-2017, 02:23 PM
By this definition, the believers lack empathy, if they're willing to overlook the pain and hardship of others for their own glimpse of the beauty beyond.

Or, as I like to refer to the same scenario:
I've go mine, eff you.

Yeah, we'll have to carry this on in PM, otherwise this will become BOTH a political and religious thread, and nobody wants that.

plastroncafe
09-20-2017, 02:27 PM
Yeah, we'll have to carry this on in PM, otherwise this will become BOTH a political and religious thread, and nobody wants that.

Thanks for the offer, but nah...I'm good.

MsMarvelDuckie
09-20-2017, 04:27 PM
For the record, I'm firmly with Plastron on this one. And I speak from harsh experience. Unfortuantely, those who are adamantly AGAINST it for ANY reason usually have little experience with the other side of the pro-life coin. Or to put it another way- it's a different story altogether when the shoe is on the other foot!

GoldMutant
09-20-2017, 04:44 PM
"We're going to kidnap the governor" -Drake and Josh. :lol:

For a serious answer though, gotta do some research before I say anything. I'm not fully used to modern politics right now.

ToTheNines
09-20-2017, 06:10 PM
Its like saying someone is a fan of black market drug trade because they support illegalizing drugs.

Personally, I'd call that a true statement.

BubblyShell22
09-21-2017, 03:57 PM
Whatever, guys. I respect the dignity of human life and that's what being pro-life is about. If my life was in danger and it was a choice of saving me or my future child, I'd sacrifice my life in a heartbeat to give that baby a chance to live. If you disagree with me, that's fine, but I stand by what I said about abortion. A life is a life no matter what and NO ONE has the right to take a human life.

But this whole thread is only hypothetical anyway so I really don't see why people have to be so serious about it.

Andrew NDB
09-21-2017, 04:04 PM
A life is a life no matter what and NO ONE has the right to take a human life.

I'll save some time...

hB3Zb9Env1A

plastroncafe
09-21-2017, 04:09 PM
Like I said, it must be nice to live where you live, Larry.
Except for the fact that gay people don't exist there.

TurtleWA
09-21-2017, 04:11 PM
If my life was in danger and it was a choice of saving me or my future child, I'd sacrifice my life in a heartbeat to give that baby a chance to live. Yes and that's your decision. I would most likely do the same if I was a female in that hypothetical situation. I think it's up to the female though. Hilarious when dudes start talking about women's body's and reproductive rights. Or arguing one side or the other with a woman.

ProphetofGanja
09-21-2017, 04:14 PM
Thanks Andrew.

As somebody who's worked in children's services/foster care/mental health for over five years, I'm intimately aware of how many "unwanted"/"damaged" children there are out there already. Nobody likes abortion, but I see it as a kinder alternative than dooming a child to a life of poverty, neglect, and inadequate care. That may sound callous but I think it's true. And why would you want to force somebody to carry to term a child born of rape? That's pretty twisted. No, a child isn't a "blessing" or a "miracle", it's biology. Yes, life is precious and amazing and a wonder to behold but kids are born every day. I'd rather see less children born each day, if those children are born into circumstances that will provide them with every opportunity to grow and flourish and succeed in life as healthy, happy human beings.

Letting a child be born and then denying that child and parent aid is the cruelest thing to do.



So yeah, that would be part of my policy as hypothetical president. Increased access to prenatal healthcare, childcare once the child is born, and improved sexual education so less teens and dumb adults have unwanted pregnancies in the first place. Vote for Prophet, 2020!!! :lol:

Andrew NDB
09-21-2017, 04:17 PM
Thanks Andrew.

As somebody who's worked in children's services/foster care/mental health for over five years, I'm intimately aware of how many "unwanted"/"damaged" children there are out there already. Nobody likes abortion, but I see it as a kinder alternative than dooming a child to a life of poverty, neglect, and inadequate care. That may sound callous

It's a harsh reality. But it's true.

So yeah, that would be part of my policy as hypothetical president. Increased access to prenatal healthcare, childcare once the child is born, and improved sexual education so less teens and dumb adults have unwanted pregnancies in the first place. Vote for Prophet, 2020!!! :lol:

Too soft! Temporary sterilizations until you apply for (and are granted) a parenting license! 2 kid maximum after that or pay a huge fine and sterilization goes in again! Vote for Modeen, 2020!

ProphetofGanja
09-21-2017, 04:32 PM
Too soft! Temporary sterilizations until you apply for (and are granted) a parenting license! 2 kid maximum after that or pay a huge fine and sterilization goes in again! Vote for Modeen, 2020!

You know I've honestly wondered about the best way to put some sort of competency test into practice so that people would have to prove they could handle having a child.

Like a much more serious version of the "carry an egg around for a week without breaking it" bit that teachers used to do in high school. It always ends up feeling too dystopian tho, but if it could have prevented some of the abuse/neglect cases I've seen then I guess it'd be worth it. Plus, more casual sex for everyone!!!

TurtleWA
09-21-2017, 04:33 PM
Nobody likes abortion, but I see it as a kinder alternative than dooming a child to a life of poverty, neglect, and inadequate care.

What if the child has a chance to not be raised in poverty or neglected/abused? Don't rich people who are more than capable of raising children also get abortions. It's interesting that folks often talk about it as something for "poor people."

Steve Jobs and John Lennon both raised in foster care. I never knew that until today.

ProphetofGanja
09-21-2017, 04:41 PM
What if the child has a chance to not be raised in poverty or neglected/abused? Don't rich people who are more than capable of raising children also get abortions. It's interesting that folks often talk about it as something for "poor people."

Steve Jobs and John Lennon both raised in foster care. I never knew that until today.

Jobs and Lennon also didn't start out as rich superstars, either.

But yeah, rich people have abortions too. Being wealthy would mean that you are more secure financially and would be able to provide the material components necessary for child-rearing but it doesn't automatically imply that you'd be capable parents, either. Plenty of rich people simply outsource their parenting duties to hired help, which in itself can be damaging to a child (ie. making the child feel unwanted by its own parents, pawned off onto servants, etc.).

TurtleWA
09-21-2017, 04:54 PM
Jobs and Lennon also didn't start out as rich superstars, either.
Of course not. They got a chance and made it on their own. No silver spoons for them. And look what they contributed in their lifetimes.

But yeah, rich people have abortions too. Being wealthy would mean that you are more secure financially and would be able to provide the material components necessary for child-rearing but it doesn't automatically imply that you'd be capable parents, either. Plenty of rich people simply outsource their parenting duties to hired help, which in itself can be damaging to a child (ie. making the child feel unwanted by its own parents, pawned off onto servants, etc.).
Agreed being wealthy doesn't imply great parenting abilities. And being poor doesn't imply your going to abuse/neglect your child.

Side note: I don't know if I've ever met someone who hasn't been somewhat damaged by their childhood.

ProactiveMan
09-22-2017, 12:11 AM
I'm not comfortable with a consensus vote on who is and who is not allowed to pursue the biological imperative. Take it as given that any attempt to control reproduction at a governmental level will cause more problems that it solves.

You don't have to like it, but you can't prevent people from reproducing, and you can't force them to carry to term, or raise their offspring. If they want out bad enough, they'll find a way regardless of consequence.

Utrommaniac
09-22-2017, 12:50 AM
I see BubblyShell22 is a fan of back-alley coat-hanger abortions, not even surprised.

Yeah, I was going to say, they tried to make it illegal and it didn't work. At all. That being one of the primary reasons.

As for me...paid parental leave - for both mothers and fathers (whether the child is biological or adopted) for at least four months to start, and universal healthcare. Might help knock down the already declining numbers in abortion thanks to accessible birth control and health education. The majority of abortions happen simply because a woman can't afford to carry on a pregnancy, let alone have time to care for a baby. And in most of those cases, there's already a child in the picture.

Making abortions illegal isn't going to solve problems - it will only make them worse. What will help is providing help to those who need it, and that includes impoverished mothers.

Andrew NDB
09-22-2017, 01:29 AM
As for me...paid parental leave - for both mothers and fathers (whether the child is biological or adopted) for at least four months to start

I just don't see how that's supposed to work. Let's say I've inherited some money, I'm opening up a Subway restaurant, got the franchise fees down and all. I've figured out finances up the wazoo, barely, but I've got enough to cover the cost of operation and wages and all to where I break even and earn just enough profit to make this whole thing worthwhile. I hire Susan, who's supposed to run the place from 8-5, 5 days out of the week... then she turns out to be pregnant, and giving birth in 4 months... now, as the business owner, I suddenly need to pay her for 4 months off of work? That seems pretty crazy. I'll still have to hire someone new to replace her and pay their wages, too. How is that supposed to work or remotely be fair? Or are we saying there should be some governmental well of money that should be dipped into to pay for these kind of times off of work?

Getting pregnant and having a baby needs to have consequences, and (as such) well-thought out foresight. That's the only way this works. There should be no rewards for, "Oh you decided to get knocked up and have a kid? Here's paid 4 months off. You need more? Cool."

Granted, over the last few years laws have changed. When my daughter was born I was allowed to use -- at the time, where I was at -- the 7 paid sick/family leave days a year I get to do so. That was more than I was expecting.

Utrommaniac
09-22-2017, 03:28 AM
There are only nine countries (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/13/the-world-is-getting-better-at-paid-maternity-leave-the-u-s-is-not/) in the world that doesn't provide maternity leave. The US is one of them. The other eight are tiny little spits of islands where women don't tend to work anyway. Most sources will credit two or three, but Papua New Guinea is pretty much always in there.

Having a baby means having PPD, having all your organs setting back into place after being pushed far out from where they should be, being unable to sit for long periods of time, potentially having to recover from c-section with the US rates being worryingly high. In regards to the health of both the mother and baby, the lack (https://www.forbes.com/sites/ritarubin/2016/04/06/united-states-lags-behind-all-other-developed-countries-when-it-comes-to-paid-maternity-leave/#5f25b5238f15) of (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/05/17/paid-maternity-leave-elite-benefit-u-s/325075001/) leave can be terrible for both.

As (https://www.capitolstartup.com/how-the-family-act-and-paid-maternity-leave-would-affect-the-us-economy/) for (http://www.pressherald.com/2015/08/03/another-view-navy-takes-the-lead-on-paid-maternity-leave/) your (http://cepr.net/documents/publications/paid-family-leave-1-2011.pdf) business, (http://caringeconomy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Case-for-Paid-Parental-Leave-CPS-2015-1-2.pdf)providing (https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/90201/paid_family_leave.pdf) leave (http://www.businessinsider.com/scientific-proof-paid-parental-leave-is-good-for-everyone) can (https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/646d2340-dcd4-4614-ada9-be5b1c3f445c/jec-fact-sheet---economic-benefits-of-paid-leave.pdf) actually (http://blog.indeed.com/2016/10/27/paid-parental-leave-strengthens-companies/) be (https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/01/upshot/the-economic-benefits-of-paid-parental-leave.html?mcubz=3) a (https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/economists-take-why-parental-leave-matters) benefit. (https://www.cornerstoneondemand.com/rework/better-parental-leave-isnt-perk%E2%80%94its-smart-business)

Most of all, you won't have to work with Susan while she's struggling with PPD, being unable to stand because it's too painful, being unable to sit because it's too painful, having to leave her station every two or three hours for half an hour so she can pump milk should she have decided to breastfeed (in a likely not-so-private area), thus using some of her valuable work time, and struggling with being apart from her tiny newborn as a whole. She'll be exhausted from physically recovering from giving birth and caring for her newborn all night, as she's still trying learning its patterns. Which will affect her work morale. Which will affect everyone else's work morale. Four months is adequate time for her to heal physically and mentally, sparing you the headache of spending nine hours a day for five days with her postpartum sh!t. Which on a literal level is probably very hard for her to do. And thus will also make work difficult for her and everyone else. Granted, even when she returns from leave, she'd still have to duck out for 30 minutes every couple of hours, but at least everything else should be managed.

ProactiveMan
09-22-2017, 05:07 AM
The way it works here is that you are only entitled to paid parental leave if you have been employed with the company for 12 months or more. If you're running a Subway and you hire someone who is four months pregnant, you're not obligated to offer PPL. That's casual and full/part-time too.

It is a complication, but no more than a lot of other things. A lot of companies offer PPL that is considerably better than the legal baseline too.

Candy Kappa
09-22-2017, 05:31 AM
The Father's Quota of the Norwegian's Parental Leave system have cut down the weeks, thanks to the Conservatives running the government, which sucks. A friend of mine had 14 weeks with his first kid, now he only gets 10 with his second kid.

BubblyShell22
09-22-2017, 07:12 AM
Like I said, it must be nice to live where you live, Larry.
Except for the fact that gay people don't exist there.

Well, excuse me for actually valuing human life which we all must do every day no matter what. And you once said you're against abortions so you are obviously a liar in that regard.

And abortion has nothing to do with gays. It has to do with respecting life. I don't believe in abortion just like I don't believe in the transgender lifestyle or bi-sexuality. As far as I'm concerned you are either gay or straight and that's it. We aren't meant to like both sexes and aren't designed that way. I'm fine with homosexuals and heterosexuals but bi-sexuals and transgenders are mentally ill.

And I did state in my policy that a rape victim doesn't have to keep the baby and can place it for adoption. When anyone hears about adoption, they automatically just think of foster care, but in reality there are other options. There are adoption websites where people can choose who cares for their baby and even adoption centers now. You can choose to have an open adoption or a closed one and it really isn't that bad. I feel it's better to give a child a chance at life rather than just taking it away just because of how it was conceived since it's not the child's fault. And I also feel it's better to give parents who are unable to conceive the joy of having a child from someone else who wants to give it a good life and a good family.

I find it sad that people who are for abortion exist. All of you get mad when there's a terrorist attack, a shooting, or a natural disaster that kills people all of the time and you are always sad when a celebrity dies. But when it comes to an innocent baby who has no voice and no say in how they live, you support killing it for certain reasons. Honestly, anyone who is pro-choice is no better than a terrorist who bombs buildings or a shooter who kills people because of their own messed up vendetta.

It's hypocrisy at its finest and that's the saddest thing of all.

plastroncafe
09-22-2017, 09:12 AM
That's nice, Larry.

Andrew, kind of not liking your use of language here, because it sounds to me like you're placing all of the responsibility for a pregnancy on the woman.

And there should be additional consequences for a woman who decides to get Knocked Up?
Are pregnancy, labor and delivery, and potentially having to care for a newborn not consequence enough?

Pay parental leave should be a cost of doing business. The same amount of Parental leave should be provided regardless of gender identity.
To suggest otherwise is to downplay the role of non gestational parents in the life of a child.

Where I work you're allowed to use short-term disability after you've used up all your vacation time. And you can use this time regardless of whether you have given birth or adopted a child.

Course at the end of that you still used up all your vacation time. So heaven forbid that child, or you yourself, get sick. Nothing says fantastic job performance like making your employees work when they're ill.

There's also research to suggest that it takes a man's career longer to bounce back after the use of family leave time then it does a woman. That's not okay either.

TurtleWA
09-22-2017, 10:29 AM
Yeah a few consequences of taking parental leave are reduced access to training, promotions, and money. According to Canadian research childless women earn up to 30% more than mothers with children.

If it happens in the US it will most likely be an insurance type payment system. Employees select various amounts to contribute into the parental leave system. Then when you need it your paid not your full working wages but a set percent (maybe 55%) of your yearly earnings. Distributed every week for so many weeks.

But for part time employees, self employed and college students are probably out of luck. It would be challenging for them to have the work history of paying in enough to collect anything. Or maybe it won't be a choice on how much employees pay in but a predetermined amount deducted from monthly pay checks. Also everyone pays even if you don't have kids or ever want them.

Andrew NDB
09-22-2017, 10:36 AM
Andrew, kind of not liking your use of language here, because it sounds to me like you're placing all of the responsibility for a pregnancy on the woman.

And there should be additional consequences for a woman who decides to get Knocked Up?
Are pregnancy, labor and delivery, and potentially having to care for a newborn not consequence enough?

Oh, I mean it equally for the mother and father. No, not enough, what about financial consequences?

And I don't mean "consequences" of a punishment nature. Having kids is awesome, if you're in a place where you can do it. I wish I had more kids. But this is a major life-changing choice you shouldn't go into blindly and I don't know that it should really be on everyone else to "have your back" financially when and if you choose to do so. Because it's a choice, a completely elective one.

Pay parental leave should be a cost of doing business.

Different example. So I break open my piggy bank and finally open my bikini barista stand. I have a total of 4 full-time employees there, all 4 of them get pregnant in the same summer and now 8-9 months later, I need to pay them 4 full months of wages? And now pay 4 new full-time employees, simultaneously?

How is that anything but a crippling, unsurvivable business model? And number two, as a business owner, wouldn't such a thing make me wayyy less likely to want to be hiring women (obviously doesn't work with my example, but you know what I mean)?

The same amount of Parental leave should be provided regardless of gender identity.
To suggest otherwise is to downplay the role of non gestational parents in the life of a child.

No I agree, if we're talking parental leave, it needs to apply to both the mother and father.

Where I work you're allowed to use short-term disability after you've used up all your vacation time. And you can use this time regardless of whether you have given birth or adopted a child.

Course at the end of that you still used up all your vacation time. So heaven forbid that child, or you yourself, get sick. Nothing says fantastic job performance like making your employees work when they're ill.

I don't get any of that stuff, ever. The way it is now I get my yearly vacation time, which is no longer called "vacation time" for reasons I don't completely understand, but PTO. I am also allotted, I think, 5 paid sick leave days a year outside of this.

That's it, there's nothing else. There is "family leave" but that's not paid.

There's also research to suggest that it takes a man's career longer to bounce back after the use of family leave time then it does a woman. That's not okay either.

That's... odd.

If it happens in the US it will most likely be an insurance type payment system. Employees select various amounts to contribute into the parental leave system. Then when you need it your paid not your full working wages but a set percent (maybe 55%) of your yearly earnings. Distributed every week for so many weeks.

That would seem fair. I'd get behind that.

And I did state in my policy that a rape victim doesn't have to keep the baby and can place it for adoption.

How kind of you.

I find it sad that people who are for abortion exist. All of you get mad when there's a terrorist attack, a shooting, or a natural disaster that kills people all of the time and you are always sad when a celebrity dies. But when it comes to an innocent baby who has no voice and no say in how they live, you support killing it for certain reasons.

Who the hell is killing babies? You mean zygotes and fertilized eggs? Because those aren't babies.

ProphetofGanja
09-22-2017, 11:16 AM
Well, excuse me for actually valuing human life which we all must do every day no matter what. And you once said you're against abortions so you are obviously a liar in that regard.

I don't know why you say people have to value human life, there's no inherent law of life that says people have to or that forces people to, but I agree that people should value human life. Although I think you're being remarkably naive about how you expect people to value human life.

And abortion has nothing to do with gays. It has to do with respecting life. I don't believe in abortion just like I don't believe in the transgender lifestyle or bi-sexuality. As far as I'm concerned you are either gay or straight and that's it. We aren't meant to like both sexes and aren't designed that way. I'm fine with homosexuals and heterosexuals but bi-sexuals and transgenders are mentally ill.

I mean, you can concern yourself all you want, but that doesn't make you right. There are plenty of bisexual people out there who can attest to that. You claim that you accept homosexuals, so what is the issue with accepting that someone could be attracted to either sex? It just seems like a weird thing to get hung up on

And I did state in my policy that a rape victim doesn't have to keep the baby and can place it for adoption. When anyone hears about adoption, they automatically just think of foster care, but in reality there are other options. There are adoption websites where people can choose who cares for their baby and even adoption centers now. You can choose to have an open adoption or a closed one and it really isn't that bad. I feel it's better to give a child a chance at life rather than just taking it away just because of how it was conceived since it's not the child's fault. And I also feel it's better to give parents who are unable to conceive the joy of having a child from someone else who wants to give it a good life and a good family.

Where do you think the children who are waiting to be adopted go? They largely go into foster care... which is sadly usually an underfunded system. Gone are the days of orphanages and children's homes. And there are many, many more children up for adoption, in foster care, than people willing to adopt. And then the people who are willing to adopt often don't want a "damaged" child, and unfortunately, the events that lead to a child being placed in foster care typically do something to them. They quite often come away with abandonment issues, attachment disorders, and/or other mental health issues.

You can bury your head in the sand all you want and pretend that you're advocating the more humane course of action by placing all of the children from the unwanted and unplanned pregnancies into foster care, telling them they'll be adopted "some day", but you're lying to yourself.

I find it sad that people who are for abortion exist. All of you get mad when there's a terrorist attack, a shooting, or a natural disaster that kills people all of the time and you are always sad when a celebrity dies. But when it comes to an innocent baby who has no voice and no say in how they live, you support killing it for certain reasons. Honestly, anyone who is pro-choice is no better than a terrorist who bombs buildings or a shooter who kills people because of their own messed up vendetta.

It's hypocrisy at its finest and that's the saddest thing of all.

First of all it's not the same thing, the loss of life is always tragic but there's a huge difference between people going about their daily lives being struck down by natural disasters and preventing someone from being doomed to a lifetime of pain and suffering such as in cases where a fetus is found to have a terminal diagnosis of some kind, fetuses are not the same as people, and you are out of your element.

Utrommaniac
09-22-2017, 12:46 PM
For someone who has made the reproductive decision to not have children, you sure are vocal about other people's reproductive decisions.

Pregnancy is hard. Extremely hard. It's physically, mentally, and financially taxing. And a lot of people can't commit to those burdens of pregnancy alone. Carrying to term and giving up a baby isn't going to help that person in the slightest. She still has to recover physically and mentally from it. She still has to deal with PPD. She still has to deal with all the side effects of giving birth. She still has to pay thousands of dollars for delivery. Pregnancy is not an experience a lot of people can afford and that's the most common reason why termination happens. It's a choice between paying the bills and keeping the home financially stable, or losing all of it for maternity care.

The majority of terminations happen for impoverished single black women who already have at least one child to care for. The cost of maintaining a second pregnancy alone would put her and her living child in danger. "She shouldn't have had sex" is not an answer, and even more, it's a slap in the face.

The solution to abortion is not making it illegal (because again, (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1997/05/abortion-in-american-history/376851/) they tried that, (http://www.ourbodiesourselves.org/health-info/u-s-abortion-history/) and it (http://prospect.org/article/what-happens-when-abortion-outlawed)ended very, very badly (http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/publications/general/lancet_4.pdf)...warning for some graphic imagery as a result of an attempted self-termination), but ensuring enough financial stability so it's not an act of desparation to keep a roof with air conditioning and electricity over their heads.

Of course it's sad when a baby dies. It's sad when they have life-threatening conditions that end their lives too early. It's sad when a woman who wants a pregnancy has a spontaneous miscarriage (which has been treated as severely as abortion in many areas where it's illegal!). It's sad when a woman has to give up her child three months in because she can no longer handle every little strain it brings to her own life. It's sad when thousands of children grow up in foster care and never be adopted because they're not healthy white babies - as what is demanded by most prospective adopting parents - while there's a shortage of healthy white babies. But termination in early stages is a great deal more merciful than bringing a child into the world that will never be wanted, have emotionally fulfilling care, and have a permanent stable home. Are there aspects of it that is sad? Of course. A woman might want to carry on a pregnancy but find that it's impossible for her and her family. The embryo/fetus might have already died of natural causes and hadn't properly ejected. It might be doomed to a short life in agony because of severe deformities. It might have Trisomy 13 (https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/trisomy-13). It might kill her. It might ruin her financially. The list of reasons why terminations happen is so much more than "rape, incest, or just not wanting a baby".

Not all terminations happen because a woman doesn't want to be pregnant. Many happen when she does, but finds that it is the only option she has for herself and her family. In many late-term terminations, for the very, very, very few that there are, especially when situations like deadly deformations (TRISOMY 13) happen or abrupt deaths, professionals will handle the situation like a birth for the sake of the parents' comfort, who may have been waiting for the baby and come up with heartbreak and disappointment. That includes the mother being able to hold it after it has died/while it's dying, to give her some sense of closure and at least a taste of what she had been wanting but was unable to have.

MsMarvelDuckie
09-22-2017, 07:47 PM
Utrom has hit the nail on the head quite forcefully. In fact I will add to it with some personal thoughts. If a woman is in an already unstable financial situation where she must rely on others for a home and other neccessities, and in spite of being in a healthy relationship/marriage has no income or privacy, no job and is already caring for someone ELSE'S kids as an unasked and unvolunteered "foster mom", does she even have the RIGHT to bring yet another mouth to feed into that situation, knowing it would only put further strain on the already tight resources of those on whom she depends? My answer is no. And it is exactly the choice I have had to make.

ProphetofGanja
09-25-2017, 03:24 PM
Another thought:

I would push for the adoption of autobahn-like rules of conduct for our highways. Our highway infrastructure would undoubtedly need to be serviced extensively, but that would also give the country the opportunity to move away from the traffic light/intersection system and more towards traffic circles/roundabouts. I freaking hate sitting at red lights when there are no cars coming in the other direction, I'd much rather just loop around and continue on my way.

Andrew NDB
09-25-2017, 03:28 PM
Another thought:

I would push for the adoption of autobahn-like rules of conduct for our highways. Our highway infrastructure would undoubtedly need to be serviced extensively, but that would also give the country the opportunity to move away from the traffic light/intersection system and more towards traffic circles/roundabouts. I freaking hate sitting at red lights when there are no cars coming in the other direction, I'd much rather just loop around and continue on my way.

Agreed! And getting rid of "chickensh** tickets," speed/light cameras, all of that stuff. No more "Clip it or Ticket" campaigns, but rather, "Shake Your Ass!" campaigns. Pick up the pace! Let's go, let's move!