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Prowler
09-25-2017, 12:43 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41391978

"North Korea's foreign minister has accused US President Donald Trump of declaring war on his country and said Pyongyang had the right to shoot down US bombers."

Ri Yong-ho said this could apply even if the warplanes were not in North Korea's airspace.

In response, the Pentagon warned Pyongyang to stop provocations.
A spokesman for the head of the UN said fiery talk could lead to fatal misunderstandings.

Mr Ri's comments were a response to Mr Trump's tweet that the North Korean leadership would not "be around much longer" if they continued their rhetoric.

"The whole world should clearly remember it was the US who first declared war on our country," Mr Ri told reporters as he was leaving New York, where he had addressed the UN General Assembly on Saturday.

"Since the United States declared war on our country, we will have every right to make counter-measures, including the right to shoot down United States strategic bombers even when they are not inside the airspace border of our country."

Mr Trump's comments were a reaction to Mr Ri's fiery speech to the UN on Saturday, when he described the US president as a "mentally deranged person full of megalomania" on a "suicide mission".

Referring to Mr Trump's tweet, North Korea's minister said "the question of who won't be around much longer" would be answered by his country.

Mr Ri's remarks - not the first time that North Korea has used the phrase "a declaration of war" in relation to the US - are the latest in an increasingly angry war of words between the two countries.

His statement came two days after US warplanes flew close to North Korea's coast in a show of force.

Pentagon spokesman Col Robert Manning reacted by saying: "If North Korea does not stop their provocative actions, you know, we will make sure that we provide options to the president to deal with North Korea."

Stéphane Dujarric, a spokesman for UN Secretary General António Guterres, said: "Fiery talk can lead to fatal misunderstandings."

"The only solution for this is a political solution," he added.

Despite weeks of tension, experts have played down the risk of direct conflict between the two.

North Korea has continued to carry out nuclear and ballistic missile tests in recent weeks, in defiance of successive rounds of UN sanctions.

The country's leaders say nuclear capabilities are its only deterrent against an outside world seeking to destroy it.

After the North's latest and most powerful nuclear test earlier this month, the UN Security Council approved new sanctions on the country.

Is **** about to hit the fan?!

Andrew NDB
09-25-2017, 12:47 PM
Is **** about to hit the fan?!

Probably nah. If they shoot down a bomber, oh yes... within 24 hours of that, probably far less.

Prowler
09-25-2017, 12:52 PM
Probably nah. If they shoot down a bomber, oh yes... within 24 hours of that, probably far less.
If I was American, I'd not be thrilled of the possibility of going into war with NK, tbh. Think of all the money you'd spent on it. It's not just bombing, invading, killing/displacing the top cat from power and it's over, no.

I think both Kim and Trump are just two hotheaded idiots who like to compare dick sizes and show off, but their advisers are probably telling them everyday to not actually do something stupid.

Can't hurt to stay alert and pay attention to the news, though. Human stupidity can lead to wars.

Andrew NDB
09-25-2017, 01:17 PM
If I was American, I'd not be thrilled of the possibility of going into war with NK, tbh. Think of all the money you'd spent on it. It's not just bombing, invading, killing/displacing the top cat from power and it's over, no.

Thrilled? No. But at some point it will be necessary on the current trajectory. If NK is literally promising to wipe us out -- and they are -- while they're simultaneously developing better and better missiles and guidance systems everyday... eventually they will be able to make good on that threat. And we can't afford not to take them at their word.

CyberCubed
09-25-2017, 01:33 PM
The U.S. has been in constant war with the middle east and other countries for decades, it's not like we've ever stopped sending troops places.

Knowing Trump he'll order bomb strikes in the leaders HQ's then order a ground invasion with the help of South Korea to take control of the country. Yes there will be a lot of people killed but hopefully not all the civilians take to arms and remain petrified of combat.

North Koreans live sheltered lives, but I seriously doubt all of them are going to throw their lives away if the soldiers don't attack civilian areas.

plastroncafe
09-25-2017, 01:44 PM
I'm far less worried about NK than I am China.

I am curious if the US will officially declare war though, since we haven't technically done that since what...1942.

Andrew NDB
09-25-2017, 01:52 PM
Knowing Trump he'll order bomb strikes in the leaders HQ's then order a ground invasion with the help of South Korea to take control of the country.

Sounds about right.

Prowler
09-25-2017, 02:01 PM
North Korea doesn't have oil, so the what does USA have to gain from invading it? Being able to set up military bases right in front of China's backyard?

And war with China wouldn't favor either USA or China. Both economies need each other a lot. China probably isn't interested in war with the US either.

Also, did everyone forget about Russia? What about them?

Andrew NDB
09-25-2017, 02:04 PM
North Korea doesn't have oil, so the what does USA have to gain from invading it?

Nuclear peace of mind.

We'd come in with South Korea, wipe out the Kim loyalists, then when we're satisfied things are in good order, we're outta there. Now it's a unified Korea.

plastroncafe
09-25-2017, 02:08 PM
War profiteers never seem to have a hard time coming up with reasons to start stuff.

Go in, destabilize the region further, install a friendly dictator, then it's military contractors all the way down. And since those guys aren't officially military, they can't get brought up on charges of war crimes.

Prowler
09-25-2017, 02:11 PM
Nuclear peace of mind.

We'd come in with South Korea, wipe out the Kim loyalists, then when we're satisfied things are in good order, we're outta there. Now it's a unified Korea.
I think North Korea would just be a burden for South Korea tbh. Way bigger than East Germany has been for the rest of Germany. Reminder that North Koreans are people who live under a quite "unique" dictatorship that's the closest to an Orwellian novel you can get in real life. they don't know how to function in a normal society. I bet many of those 17M NKs would become alcoholics and/or junkies if they lived in a democracy. I know North Koreans and South Koreans are the same people, but the Korean war was decades ago already and at this point, uniting both countries would be more troublesome than ever.

Don't countries like Pakistan, Russia, China and Iran have nukes as well, btw?

Andrew NDB
09-25-2017, 02:15 PM
I think North Korea would just be a burden for South Korea tbh. Way bigger than East Germany has been for the rest of Germany. Reminder that North Koreans are people who live under a quite "unique" dictatorship that's the closest to an Orwellian novel you can get in real life. they don't know how to function in a normal society. I bet many of those 17M NKs would become alcoholics and/or junkies if they lived in a democracy. I know North Koreans and South Koreans are the same people, but the Korean war was decades ago already and at this point, uniting both countries would be more troublesome than ever.

It wouldn't be easy. Probably the sooner they can start getting acclimated, the better, then.

Don't countries like Pakistan, Russia, China and Iran have nukes as well, btw?

Yeah, but none of them are publicly declaring and promising our destruction by them, screening big propaganda videos for their citizens showing nuclear missiles exploding on US soil. That's just North Korea.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-25-2017, 02:29 PM
I think North Korea would just be a burden for South Korea tbh. Way bigger than East Germany has been for the rest of Germany. Reminder that North Koreans are people who live under a quite "unique" dictatorship that's the closest to an Orwellian novel you can get in real life. they don't know how to function in a normal society. I bet many of those 17M NKs would become alcoholics and/or junkies if they lived in a democracy. I know North Koreans and South Koreans are the same people, but the Korean war was decades ago already and at this point, uniting both countries would be more troublesome than ever.



It must be a process. If Kim is kicked out, and his expensive toys are taken away from him, he must first be replaced with a democratic North Korea for circa 10-20 years, then reunite.

Prowler
09-25-2017, 02:37 PM
Tbh, NK pulls this crap every year and then nothing ever happens. It's like a boy crying wolf thing. So I'll only truly believe in war once it actually happens. I think by now most South Koreans don't believe in reunification anymore.

Countries usually don't unite peacefully. At this point, North Korea has probably developed a culture of its own and the only thing they share with their southern neighbours besides the same genetics is the language.

If the Korean peninsula becomes one sole country again, I think there is a risk of social issues aggravating.

I wonder if Vietnam could have split into two(well, South Vietnam was a thing ,wasn't it?) like Korea as well? But as we all know, Communist prevailed there and the country still is Communist to this day.

Andrew NDB
09-25-2017, 02:44 PM
East and West Germany came back together arguably amicably enough. A very different situation, though.

Sumac
09-25-2017, 03:53 PM
We'd come in with South Korea, wipe out the Kim loyalists, then when we're satisfied things are in good order, we're outta there. Now it's a unified Korea.
It will be hard to have a good order there.

Outdated infrastructure, brainwashed populace...thousands, if not millions refugees will run into China and in South Korea. And neither country will be thrilled about taking them in.
Not to mention possibility of guerrilla warfare from Kim's loyalists and acts of terror in South Korea and, possibly, Japan.

I said it in the other topic before - the sole reason why no-one have dealt with NK before is that because no-one wants to spend money to deal with fallout.

Candy Kappa
09-25-2017, 04:01 PM
To steal someone else's phrase, I hope we never find out what North Korea's ISIS will be like.

Andrew NDB
09-25-2017, 04:02 PM
To steal someone else's phrase, I hope we never find out what North Korea's ISIS will be like.

lol... they would never have one. That is a whole different reality, topography, religion, way of thinking, everything.

ToTheNines
09-25-2017, 04:11 PM
lol... they would never have one. That is a whole different reality, topography, religion, way of thinking, everything.

Agreed. Very small band of Kim-loyalists at worst.

MsMarvelDuckie
09-25-2017, 08:15 PM
If even that. They are only loyal because they are afraid of being executed if they aren't, you know that, right?

Sumac
09-25-2017, 10:27 PM
If even that. They are only loyal because they are afraid of being executed if they aren't, you know that, right?
It's like people in NK were not brainwashed by propaganda for several generations, right?

Andrew NDB
09-25-2017, 11:03 PM
If even that. They are only loyal because they are afraid of being executed if they aren't, you know that, right?

The actual civilian-class, I could buy would be different. Large portions of which might be eating the company pie. But these aren't, like, Muslim extremists that are like, "Ala akbar, I'm going straight to heaven with 30 virgins if I press this suicide detonator, I'm more than Ok with this horrible death!!!" Not remotely. Not even in the same stratosphere.

Katie
09-26-2017, 06:03 AM
The only reason the North Korean envoy made that speach was to “have it on record” that they believe that the Americans acted first. So, when they shoot something down, they can plead with China to save them. Its all a big chess game. Trump is playing to their hand beautifully. Trump is going to keep pressing until something breaks all so he can get his good boy pats from his base.

Oh but we can hide the important stuff by attacking peaceful protesters on Twitter. He thinks the public is too stupid to pay attention to important stuff if he starts some attack on culture. Sadly he seems to be right.