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neatoman
09-29-2017, 05:01 AM
So whenever David Wise recounts his writing process for season one, it seems to me like he always makes it seem as if he wrote a script and they went with ideas that were his and his alone. Basically he's saying that the first season is pretty much his lone vision.

But according to Peter Laird, the ending at least would have been very different if he and Kevin had not taken a second look at the scripts. There's also evidence that David Wise wasn't nearly as influential as he claims, there were other factors involved such as demands from Playmates, the desired direction of Fred Wolf and adlibbing by the actors. Then finally there's the fact that Patti Howeth is credited as a co-writer, but Wise just discredits her and we've never heard any other side of this story, regardless of which it would just be srange to credit someone who didn't do anything.

So has the original scripts ever been found? Is there a production bible? Any documentation?

FredWolfLeonardo
09-29-2017, 05:12 AM
Haven't really looked into it but I do recall hearing that Wise maybe wrote for the turtles to make the technodrome their lair after beating the villains, an idea which was rejected by Eastman and Laird.

Vegita-San
09-29-2017, 07:55 AM
it sounds like everyone is taking credit for original series success.

i remember kevin eastman taking credit for april's design as well.

interesting idea on patti howeth. since the relationship didn't work out well, who knows if she wrote any of it?

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
09-29-2017, 02:56 PM
I wish all failed scripts of anything TMNT-related in moving picutres were adapted into comics instead.

pferreira
10-05-2017, 11:41 AM
So whenever David Wise recounts his writing process for season one, it seems to me like he always makes it seem as if he wrote a script and they went with ideas that were his and his alone. Basically he's saying that the first season is pretty much his lone vision.Whenever David Wise recounts his writing process for season one? When? What recent interview has he done? I know you're trying to discredit the guy because you hate his work but what are all these times you're talking about? It's stated in TMNT: The Ultimate Visual History that Wise took the characters from the first comic issue and made their unique personalities more explicit. Stuff like Bebop and Rocksteady were created by Playmates sculptor Roger Boggs and Scott Hensey but David gave the mutants their origin stories.

But according to Peter Laird, the ending at least would have been very different if he and Kevin had not taken a second look at the scripts.How do you know that wasn't the only think that was changed? What about if it was?

There's also evidence that David Wise wasn't nearly as influential as he claims,Kevin Eastman and the guys behind TMNT: The Ultimate Visual History beg to differ.;)

there were other factors involved such as demands from Playmates, the desired direction of Fred Wolf and adlibbing by the actors.It's called a collaboration. Wise submitted the ideas which he then turned into the scripts, Eastman and Laird approved the scripts and Playmates created the look of the show along with the mutant characters.

Then finally there's the fact that Patti Howeth is credited as a co-writer, but Wise just discredits her and we've never heard any other side of this story, regardless of which it would just be srange to credit someone who didn't do anything.David has explained why she got a credit but didn't do anything on the show. That is kind of obvious if you were reading or listening to his interviews. I mean I suppose you could say he's lying but documentation on the show is so poor if you don't believe the people in charge whoa re you going to believe?

On a side note according to David in that book Chuck Lorre was originally asked to write the show but was unavailable and but David forward instead.

So has the original scripts ever been found? Is there a production bible? Any documentation?The show was poorly documented. You need to ask Fred Wolf or David Wise for that type of thing. I have a couple of Francis Moss scripts but those I don't think would be helpful for what you are researching.

Powder
10-05-2017, 06:33 PM
Whenever David Wise recounts his writing process for season one? When?

Stuff like Bebop and Rocksteady were created by Playmates sculptor Roger Boggs and Scott Hensey but David gave the mutants their origin stories.


He's done a whole bunch of video interviews. Convention appearances, Fred Wolf DVD release extras, Turtle Power (the documentary), etc. Plenty of sources.

Bebop & Rocksteady were conceptualized by Kevin & Pete, actually. At least in terms of species, their roles as henchmen, & some of the design elements.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e280/klankandorbis/beboprocksteady.jpg

oldmanwinters
10-05-2017, 06:47 PM
Rocksteady and Bebop still retained their road-warrior Eastman/Laird style all the way into the official storyboards for "A Thing about Rats":
https://i.imgur.com/53wYtoA.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ZNkEGoI.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Z4BZtkl.jpg

pferreira
10-05-2017, 07:19 PM
He's done a whole bunch of video interviews. Convention appearances, Fred Wolf DVD release extras, Turtle Power (the documentary), etc. Plenty of sources. Not THAT many where he's making false claims. The book I referred to even clears up who created what.

Bebop & Rocksteady were conceptualized by Kevin & Pete, actually. At least in terms of species, their roles as henchmen, & some of the design elements. Yeah I know. I read the book. ;)

Powder
10-05-2017, 07:31 PM
Not THAT many where he's making false claims. The book I referred to even clears up who created what.

Yeah I know. I read the book. ;)

Then why did you credit other people for their creation? :tlol:

& I contributed to the book. ;)

neatoman
10-06-2017, 05:05 AM
I have a copy of this book and it's not very useful for research. I mean sure, I know there are things in it that are true because I know what the sources are, I know Laird and Eastman designed Bebop/Rocksteady because they've made the sketches public, but the book itself does not list it's sources very well. It just states who said what without pointing out where and when they said it, if I don't know that then I can't fully trust it.

It's probably not meant to used for serious research but it does mean I'd have to take with a grain of salt. This is why I'd like some evidence, to see if Wise's claims can be backed up properly, like his scripts.

Tetsu Deinonychus
10-07-2017, 10:10 AM
He's done a whole bunch of video interviews. Convention appearances, Fred Wolf DVD release extras, Turtle Power (the documentary), etc. Plenty of sources.

Bebop & Rocksteady were conceptualized by Kevin & Pete, actually. At least in terms of species, their roles as henchmen, & some of the design elements.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e280/klankandorbis/beboprocksteady.jpg
Those Eastman and Laird Bebop and Rocksteady sketches are awesome! I guess that's what a Mirage version of those two would look like if they ever decided to put them in.

And, yes FW TMNT (like all versions of TMNT) was a collaboration, and Wise for better or worse was one of the key collaborators. It is possible to give him his due credit for that without indulging him when he tries to make himself out to the the key collaborator.

neatoman
10-07-2017, 11:25 AM
Those Eastman and Laird Bebop and Rocksteady sketches are awesome! I guess that's what a Mirage version of those two would look like if they ever decided to put them in.

And, yes FW TMNT (like all versions of TMNT) was a collaboration, and Wise for better or worse was one of the key collaborators. It is possible to give him his due credit for that without indulging him when he tries to make himself out to the the key collaborator.

Sure, he certainly had a part to play and I'm willing to give him his due credit, I just want to know what's actually true.

Tetsu Deinonychus
10-07-2017, 11:56 AM
Oh yeah. I do too.

neatoman
10-07-2017, 12:40 PM
Oh yeah. I do too.

So do we agree that, objectively:


David Wise wrote/co-wrote the first draft scripts of season 1
We know he was told to put things in and that details were altered outside of his control
He's not letting on to the true extent


Or not?

Tetsu Deinonychus
10-21-2017, 11:17 AM
Pretty much.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-21-2017, 05:28 PM
How was Krang supposed to take over Shredder's body? Kill him? (doubtt it)? Some kind of special mutagen?

tmntfannumerouno
10-21-2017, 07:18 PM
How was Krang supposed to take over Shredder's body? Kill him? (doubtt it)? Some kind of special mutagen?

It could be similar to the way they did it in the archie comics.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-22-2017, 04:00 AM
It could be similar to the way they did it in the archie comics.

There, it was Bellybomb who fixed it.

neatoman
10-22-2017, 05:16 AM
How was Krang supposed to take over Shredder's body? Kill him? (doubtt it)? Some kind of special mutagen?

Assuming it wasn't an asspull at the last minute, my best guess is that Shredder would have been transformed by the ooze into whatever Krang was before he lost his body, making Shredder a suitable replacement.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-22-2017, 09:19 AM
Shredder would have been transformed by the ooze into whatever was before he lost his body.

I guess you mean Krang.

neatoman
10-22-2017, 09:21 AM
I guess you mean Krang.

Ah yes, I forgot to write in Krang.

tmntfannumerouno
10-22-2017, 03:59 PM
There, it was Bellybomb who fixed it.

Yeah but in the FW toon it could have been baxter stockman instead.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-22-2017, 05:37 PM
Yeah but in the FW toon it could have been baxter stockman instead.

Only if he hadn't been arrested in "A Thing About Rats".

tmntfannumerouno
10-22-2017, 07:09 PM
Only if he hadn't been arrested in "A Thing About Rats".

In what episode was the proposed shredder/krang body thing supposed to happen?

pferreira
10-26-2017, 10:29 AM
Then why did you credit other people for their creation? :tlol:

& I contributed to the book. ;)I just listed what I read in the book. Sorry. :(

It's probably not meant to used for serious research but it does mean I'd have to take with a grain of salt. This is why I'd like some evidence, to see if Wise's claims can be backed up properly, like his scripts.Well mate, it comes down to this: do you believe an official secondary source for your research or do you try and get hold of the scripts? You might even then not get the answers you desire due to there being different drafts.

It is possible to give him his due credit for that without indulging him when he tries to make himself out to the the key collaborator.Agreed. :)