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Cure
10-04-2017, 06:38 PM
**** was scary back in the day, but these are fun conversations to have now that people can look back and laugh. What did your parents do to punish you guys?

My mother would throw dry rice on the floor and make me kneel on it for hours on end. After a while the little grains would cut into the skin and leave scars and ish. And another time my mother got so angry that she ripped out the little rod thing to open and close the blinds and whipped me with it. Good times.

Oh, and being Latino, I am quite familiar with la chancla.

What about you guys?

Andrew NDB
10-04-2017, 06:39 PM
Spanking. By my mom if it was something relatively minor. By my dad if I was really bad. Belt reserved for extreme bad behavior.

plastroncafe
10-04-2017, 08:23 PM
I'm from New England and was raised Catholic, all punishment was emotional in nature.

Of course the fact that I was a good kid who never really got into trouble probably helped.

TurtleWA
10-04-2017, 09:52 PM
I was spanked.

However I don't use the same approach with my child. It was a very ineffective way to modify my behavior and show consequences for my actions. I do approve of some of my parents decisions in raising me but this is not one.

Do the others that have posted approve of the way they were punished? Would you use the same methods with your child? Or do you already use the same as your parents?

Katie
10-04-2017, 10:32 PM
“Go pick your switch”

As a kid, you think maybe a long skinny stick is best, but that felt like a whip. Then next time, you maybe pick a thicker one, but that leaves bruises and welps.

Then you just do your damnedest to never get caught.

MsMarvelDuckie
10-04-2017, 10:48 PM
Spanking or standing in a corner. My mom usually sent me to my room. Step-dud was the real disciplinarian- but he is a douchebag with a short and overactive temper and frequently got out of hand with his "punishment". At times he even punished me for no real reason at all except that he had a bad day and I got on his nerves somehow. He is a prick, and a lot of what he called "punishment" would certainly be considered abuse. Mom was always more understanding; I think the fact that I was basically a good kid kept me from having to deal with his idea of correction too much.

CyberCubed
10-04-2017, 10:49 PM
There is some disturbing stuff being posted in this thread. As for me, nothing more than a quick slap in the back or top of the head...and that was about it.

The rest of you sound like you may have been abused and not even realize it. I realize for those of you who are 30-40 years old this is dating back decades to the 80's (or 70's?), but if this happened in the modern year it would not be tolerated if it were reported.

Andrew NDB
10-04-2017, 10:57 PM
Of course the fact that I was a good kid who never really got into trouble probably helped.

I don't buy that.

And after I was like 11 or so punishment was just "Your video games are gone for a month!"

MsMarvelDuckie
10-04-2017, 11:05 PM
There is some disturbing stuff being posted in this thread. As for me, nothing more than a quick slap in the back or top of the head...and that was about it.

The rest of you sound like you may have been abused and not even realize it. I realize for those of you who are 30-40 years old this is dating back decades to the 80's (or 70's?), but if this happened in the modern year it would not be tolerated if it were reported.


Oh believe me I realized a LONG time ago what it was he was doing. And the s**t I mentioned is just what I'm willing to discuss publicly. I've said before what a turd of a human being he is and I will say it again. Belts were used frequently when he was the one disciplining me, even for relatively minor crap. The corner or grounding to my room were mom's usual mode. But she knew I'd just go sit and read in there for the duration. So it kept me out of trouble and I became a good reader- win-win as far as she was concerned.

DestronMirage22
10-04-2017, 11:13 PM
Oh, and being Latino, I am quite familiar with la chancla.


Oy, tell me about it.

Both the dreaded chancla and the cinto were the tools my mother used to punish me whenever I misbehaved or did something wrong. And whenever she didn’t have either (or maybe she was just in the mood for it) she’d resort to just spanking me like crazy.

But I didn’t make it easy for her. If she was gonna whup my ass anyways, she was gonna have to catch me first. :lol:

She’s always been an angry person, and I think at times she used those punishments as a means of venting that anger and getting rid of her stress.

Looking back at it, I can kind of appreciate being punished like that. It would’ve been impossible for her to discipline me any other way (as her parents did the same with her and that’s all she had known), and I would’ve ended up soft and a different person if she had done otherwise.

If I ever have any kids (right, like that’ll happen) I obviously wouldn’t do the same to them. I’d try my best to be loving and I’d never raise my hand to them. If I were to punish them, I’d go for something more psychological, like taking away their toys or not letting them watch tv, and then I’d explain why what they did was wrong and teach them not to do it again with kindness and words.


Edit:
Damn, maybe I did end up soft.
That last paragraph sounds so lame.

Andrew NDB
10-05-2017, 12:01 AM
There is some disturbing stuff being posted in this thread. As for me, nothing more than a quick slap in the back or top of the head...and that was about it.

The rest of you sound like you may have been abused and not even realize it. I realize for those of you who are 30-40 years old this is dating back decades to the 80's (or 70's?), but if this happened in the modern year it would not be tolerated if it were reported.

Pffft.

I spank my kid but the times I've actually ever had to do that are less than double digits, and she's almost 10. I can't fathom going as far as a belt but I don't disagree with its use at the time.

I even caught the end of physical punishment in school. It must have been kindergarten or into 1st grade... if you misbehave, the teacher has you walk up to the front of the class and she smacks your hand/wrist pretty hard with a ruler.

I don't necessarily think that's something that ever should have been gravitated away from.

CyberCubed
10-05-2017, 12:30 AM
If teachers dare to hit or abuse the kids in school now and it's found out about, they get fired and possibly face jail time based on the severity of it. I do remember when I was in 1st grade this one kid in the class always caused trouble and the teacher would sometimes pull him by the ear. Such a thing would never fly nowadays in the modern year.

It's kind of funny that we all remember this too. This all happened when we were kids but a lot of this stuff just stayed lodged into our memories for 20+ years.

TurtleWA
10-05-2017, 12:44 AM
If teachers dare to hit or abuse the kids in school now and it's found out about, they get fired and possibly face jail time based on the severity of it.

"A recent investigation by Education Week shows that in the 2013-2014 school year, about 110,000 students were physically punished nationwide. That's in part because in some states, including Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas and Texas, tens of thousands of students are paddled every year."

http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/04/12/521944429/where-corporal-punishment-is-still-used-its-roots-go-deep

CyberCubed
10-05-2017, 01:10 AM
And all those states are either southern or mid-western states. They're a little behind on modern times.

Candy Kappa
10-05-2017, 04:05 AM
holy **** you guys...

I've not been physically abused by my parents for misbehaving. My mom would put restrictions on video games, toys or TV time, only one time did she ground me and I managed to negotiate myself out of it. Usually she stalked to me instead of hitting me...

My dad did loose his temper and slap my second youngest brother once, and child protective services got involved and they had to go in family therapy.

MsMarvelDuckie
10-05-2017, 05:34 AM
Just a slap? Geez I WISH that was all I ever got. That's not enough to call CPS on here- or at least it wasn't when I was a kid. Might be now if seen by sone uptight ultra-left bleeding heart. But the stuff my step-dad did went beyond just spanking- which I DO sort of believe un as long as the parent doesn't go too far- and yes it WAS abusive. But he also is abusive in general, and not just to me.

ssjup81
10-05-2017, 05:49 AM
Under the age of ten, I was usually punished by going to bed early, no tv, and not being able to play outside. If I kept doing whatever it was I was doing wrong after being punished a few times, then I would get spanked. I guess like a three strikes and you're out type thing. Either way, it was rare I was spanked.

In my teens, I usually had my games taken away and forced to go to bed early, no tv or talking on the phone...If teachers dare to hit or abuse the kids in school now and it's found out about, they get fired and possibly face jail time based on the severity of it. I do remember when I was in 1st grade this one kid in the class always caused trouble and the teacher would sometimes pull him by the ear. Such a thing would never fly nowadays in the modern year.

It's kind of funny that we all remember this too. This all happened when we were kids but a lot of this stuff just stayed lodged into our memories for 20+ years.As far as I know, states like North Carolina can still legally spank kids in schools.

Prowler
10-05-2017, 06:26 AM
The only time I've been slapped was when I was a little kid. And by slapped I don't mean with a backhand or anything of the sort. But being slapped on my hand whenever I did something wrong.

I usually was sent to bed early or was forced to study or something as a punishment.

I was never that much of a troublemaker anyway. At school, whenever I got into fights, I usually just reacted in self-defence. And whenever my mom yelled at me or talked to I'd get the point across.

If teachers dare to hit or abuse the kids in school now and it's found out about, they get fired and possibly face jail time based on the severity of it. I do remember when I was in 1st grade this one kid in the class always caused trouble and the teacher would sometimes pull him by the ear. Such a thing would never fly nowadays in the modern year.

It's kind of funny that we all remember this too. This all happened when we were kids but a lot of this stuff just stayed lodged into our memories for 20+ years.
Never saw a teacher of mine hitting a student. If a teacher did that here he'd never be allowed to teach again.

Andrew NDB
10-05-2017, 10:50 AM
I've not been physically abused by my parents for misbehaving.

I don't think anyone in this thread has been saying they were, either.

plastroncafe
10-05-2017, 11:30 AM
Really?
Reread the thread.

Prowler
10-05-2017, 12:09 PM
Really?
Reread the thread.
Maybe they just grew up thinking it was normal and never saw it as abuse.

MsMarvelDuckie
10-05-2017, 05:46 PM
If anyone is referring to me, then no. I knew from probably around 6 or 7 that it was wrong and not "normal". Never saw any of my friends' parents do any of the things he did. I just didn't really have the ability to do much about it. Long story but when I was 8 some stuff happened that caused several months of family and individual counseling. It got better for a couple of years but eventually things went right back the way they were before. Thing is he never showed his "true colors" where anyone could see- including my mom. Nothing anyone could do without proof and/or witnesses. He was the type to not leave marks or to let anyone see or hear him lose his sh*t. But I DID get some paybacks a few times. Learned to be VERY good at kicking "that spot" and then disappearing for a couple of hours before he could get back up....

Andrew NDB
10-05-2017, 05:55 PM
If anyone is referring to me, then no. I knew from probably around 6 or 7 that it was wrong and not "normal". Never saw any of my friends' parents do any of the things he did. I just didn't really have the ability to do much about it. Long story but when I was 8 some stuff happened that caused several months of family and individual counseling. It got better for a couple of years but eventually things went right back the way they were before. Thing is he never showed his "true colors" where anyone could see- including my mom. Nothing anyone could do without proof and/or witnesses. He was the type to not leave marks or to let anyone see or hear him lose his sh*t. But I DID get some paybacks a few times. Learned to be VERY good at kicking "that spot" and then disappearing for a couple of hours before he could get back up....

Good grief...

Candy Kappa
10-05-2017, 06:21 PM
I don't think anyone in this thread has been saying they were, either.

I'd say spanking or slapping a child is abuse, and it's been seen as such and been illegal in Norway since mid 70's

TurtleWA
10-05-2017, 06:48 PM
I'd say spanking or slapping a child is abuse, and it's been seen as such and been illegal in Norway since mid 70's

It definitely depends on the area a person lives. As well as a persons values and such. Some states in the US still have paddling/spanking allowed in schools. In mine and Andrews state of Washington "abuse and neglect does NOT include the physical discipline of a child..."

https://www.dshs.wa.gov/ca/child-safety-and-protection/what-child-abuse-and-neglect

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.100

Though physical discipline needs to be "reasonable" and "moderate."

IndigoErth
10-05-2017, 07:03 PM
[Yeah, not sure that's a can of worms I really should have opened, but it's too much text to waste now...]



The most common tactic of my mother... Lots of screaming (being sure she's the only one who gets to speak) and tearing apart any sense of self esteem she might have imagined was at risk of still being intact.

Used spanking some, but mostly just as a young kid. That was pretty much replaced later (I think as a pre-teen) by the handful of times I was hit/slapped; always across the face once or twice. Plus the time, after taking a friend home, she sat me on her bed to "talk" to me (always a bad thing), then just whaled on me. All because said friend had spent the night and like a couple of normal middle school girls we were mildly wild and stayed up half the night. So instead of ever asking/telling us to quiet down she just beat on me the next day.

Probably one of the most messed up "punishments" was her once 'locking' me in the so-called wine cellar. Which is more just a small dug out area, technically part of the basement, beneath the kitchen with a dirt floor and low ceiling and a slightly rickety-looking door made of dark red painted wood boards. I don't know that it was actually locked, she has said it wasn't, but in my mind it was. I'm not even sure how old I was as that point... I don't recall if my sister was even around yet, and she was born when I was still just five. I'm guessing I may have been five or six...? Supposedly she didn't go too far away, not leaving me (though to me I thought she had), according to her she sat and cried on the nearby steps... but wtf.

In reality, I was actually a really good kid. Sure, any child is going to be frustrating and mess up, but I was never intentionally bad (even as a toddler I wasn't one to throw tantrums or anything) and wasn't really one to test boundaries too much. (And the way this woman was I didn't dare risk it.) And in front of other people, she damn well KNEW I was a good kid and would defend me as such, and certainly less trouble than a couple of those that were neighbors. But that view seemed to go out the window when there was no one else around. Largely this came from a mother who herself has major issues and was never medicated until I was mid-teens or so. (She's admitted that she sought it out because of how she was to me.) Rised by a woman who believes that mistakes aren't okay and, in I guess her screwed up mind, might even be regarded as intentional. (Or at least responded to as if they were.)

Naturally, my sister, inevitably the favorite, never really got the same level of punishment or abuse from her. I know she didn't have it perfect... Our mother did like to run after and hit us with yard sticks on occasion and she DID once break a heavy duty one over my sister, but far as I'm aware of that is about the worse she herself got. She didn't get near as much screaming (I think more often just stern talking to) and none of the intentional self esteem scarring. (Which you can definitely tell as adults.) Largely she had the benefit of our mother I believe trying to overcompensate on her in a better way because my sister is the younger one like her, while I'm the older one like her own sister she hates, so she seemingly chose me as the target to take her crap out on that she couldn't take out on her own sister or parents.


My dad was much calmer, yelling was infrequent and rarely was he physical and only recall a time or two. He was more likely to break stuff, but also infrequent. He was a better person than my mom, though unfortunately she dished out most of the so-called discipline, esp as he was often at work. Most of her more malicious, emotionally cutting behavior was done when he wasn't home or in ear shot. Hmm... wonder why.

CyberCubed
10-05-2017, 07:05 PM
I really can't believe there are schools in the U.S. that allow teachers to physically hit the kids. If that happened up here in New York the teachers would immediately be fired and face possible fines or jail time. I'm glad I live in a democratic state of free thinkers.

Any form of abuse to young children in schools should in no way be tolerated. Even when I was a kid in the 90's I thought this law was around.

drag0nfeathers
10-05-2017, 07:16 PM
Kids are pansies now... in my opinion it's the restraints we put on parents that have resulted in a generation of entitled kids who can't deal with modern life. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying abuse is "okay" but giving your kid a smack now in then is not abuse. (this is a reason why I never reproduced... I'd end up in jail with todays regulations)

I got beat as a kid and I deserved every one I got. I don't consider it abuse at all. If I had gotten smacked for no good reason, then that would be different. I never got the "belt" or the "switch" or any of those things. I got a crack in the head normally if I misbehaved, but I learned quick. I generally wasn't a bad kid anyway.

The worst beating I remember was when I was around 5 years old. (and yes I remember this, and I know I had to be 5 or less because my dad passed away 2 weeks before I turned 6) For some reason I got the bright idea in my head to get up out of my bed at 10 at night, go down the stairs, go outside, and go visit my neighbors (who happened to be family) that lived across the street.

They phoned my house and my dad answered and was asked. "Do you know where your daughter is?" Of course he thought I was in bed... but I was not. I was there... Yea.... I got carried home by the collar of my pajamas getting a boot in the behind for every single step home as my dad strode. :tlol:

I got the worst of it from my brothers growing up. It wasn't so much abuse as brothers being brothers in the 80's...

I loved milk, but my brother called it "kick me's" So he would ask if I wanted some kick me's and of course when I said yes he would kick me. He would jingle the milk and ask again and of course I'd say no because I didn't want to get kicked again. So he would shrug and put the milk away so I'd be all "Nuuuuuu!" So he would reaffirm I actually DID want kick me's and proceed to kick me again.

This is the same brother who would put his dirty socks in my mouth and squeeze orange peels in my eyes because he had to babysit me almost every night of his teenage life instead of being able to hang out with his friends since my mom bailed on us after my dad died. He would also wipe his boogers under my pillow so I would get all scratchy booger talons up and down my arms when I would put my arm under my pillow to go to sleep. You just gotta love big brothers... The only shining light is my even bigger brother (who teased him like he teased me) taught me a lot of weird little quirks that freaked him out so when he had his first child (my niece) I made sure to teach her all the those things so karma has now come full circle.

TurtleWA
10-05-2017, 07:37 PM
I really can't believe there are schools in the U.S. that allow teachers to physically hit the kids. If that happened up here in New York the teachers would immediately be fired and face possible fines or jail time. I'm glad I live in a democratic state of free thinkers.

Any form of abuse to young children in schools should in no way be tolerated. Even when I was a kid in the 90's I thought this law was around.

Yes you would think in 2017 there would be better methods to keep those without power (kids) in check. Something other than corporal punishment.

Spike Spiegel
10-05-2017, 08:12 PM
My mother still has a metal cane that is bent from her hitting me with it.

We lost a lot of brooms that way too. I'd usually have to bend over a couch or something when it was a scheduled punishment.

In my mid to late teens, once that didn't work any more, I'd get sent on "walks" and would get locked out of whatever house/apartment we lived at the time, sometimes without any shoes or socks on, for anywhere from 15 minutes to a few hours.

I probably wasn't a "bad" kid per se, judging from how my friends' parents always complimented me on my behavior. I was just raised as a hardline fundamentalist Christian, so questioning my mother was viewed as questioning God...

snake
10-05-2017, 09:04 PM
I got spanked a bit when I was little. Didn't really do anything lol

Some of you guys were f*cked.

Prowler
10-06-2017, 05:24 PM
I really can't believe there are schools in the U.S. that allow teachers to physically hit the kids. If that happened up here in New York the teachers would immediately be fired and face possible fines or jail time. I'm glad I live in a democratic state of free thinkers.

Any form of abuse to young children in schools should in no way be tolerated. Even when I was a kid in the 90's I thought this law was around.
Back i nmy parents' day kids still got smacked at school. My mom got hit with a ruler on the back of her hands once. She said it hurt.

Also, left-handed kids used to get smacked A LOT at school. Teachers basically forced them to learn to write with their right hands. I guess being left-handed was viewed as some sort of physical handicap back then?

plastroncafe
10-06-2017, 06:05 PM
Back i nmy parents' day kids still got smacked at school. My mom got hit with a ruler on the back of her hands once. She said it hurt.

Also, left-handed kids used to get smacked A LOT at school. Teachers basically forced them to learn to write with their right hands. I guess being left-handed was viewed as some sort of physical handicap back then?

Corporal Punishment was a big thing at Catholic Schools, which is one of the reasons my parents refused to send me to one.

Mom had to kneel on pencils, or was smacked around by nuns.
My grandmother, who was left-handed, routinely had her hand tied behind her back to keep her from using it.

The Left, or sinister, hand was associated with the devil.
And anyone who preferred that hand must also be of or with the devil, based on a passage from Matthew, apparently:

And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Prowler
10-06-2017, 06:31 PM
Corporal Punishment was a big thing at Catholic Schools, which is one of the reasons my parents refused to send me to one.

Mom had to kneel on pencils, or was smacked around by nuns.
My grandmother, who was left-handed, routinely had her hand tied behind her back to keep her from using it.

The Left, or sinister, hand was associated with the devil.
And anyone who preferred that hand must also be of or with the devil, based on a passage from Matthew, apparently:

Is that why left is sinistra in Italian?

Also, how convenient that communism, the enemy of fascism, is left-winged. :tgrin:

plastroncafe
10-06-2017, 06:42 PM
Kind of?
sinister (adj.) (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=sinister)

early 15c., "prompted by malice or ill-will, intending to mislead," from Old French senestre, sinistre "contrary, false; unfavorable; to the left" (14c.), from Latin sinister "left, on the left side" (opposite of dexter), of uncertain origin. Perhaps meaning properly "the slower or weaker hand" [Tucker], but Klein and Buck suggest it's a euphemism (see left (adj.)) connected with the root of Sanskrit saniyan "more useful, more advantageous." With contrastive or comparative suffix -ter, as in dexter (see dexterity).

The Latin word was used in augury in the sense of "unlucky, unfavorable" (omens, especially bird flights, seen on the left hand were regarded as portending misfortune), and thus sinister acquired a sense of "harmful, unfavorable, adverse." This was from Greek influence, reflecting the early Greek practice of facing north when observing omens. In genuine Roman auspices, the augurs faced south and left was favorable. Thus sinister also retained a secondary sense in Latin of "favorable, auspicious, fortunate, lucky."

Meaning "evil" is from late 15c. Used in heraldry from 1560s to indicate "left, to the left." Bend (not "bar") sinister in heraldry indicates illegitimacy and preserves the literal sense of "on or from the left side" (though in heraldry this is from the view of the bearer of the shield, not the observer of it; see bend (n.2)).

TurtleWA
10-06-2017, 07:01 PM
All this 'left' talk has me remembering that I was once told that "the left eye is the window to the soul." Decided to do a quick search to see if the internet said the same thing. A quote from the first article I clicked on.
"If someone is not being sincere they will turn their face so that their right eye is toward you. If they are taking from the heart they will turn the left side of their face towards you to emphasise the left eye."
http://www.scienceofsoulmates.com/The_power_of_the_left_eye.htm

MsMarvelDuckie
10-06-2017, 11:18 PM
Interestingly enough for the current track of this discussion I am not only left-handed myself (how many of us here are? Show of hands, LOL!) but was also reprimanded in school for using it when young, before my mom told them to leave it alone and let me use the one that came naturally. That put a stop to it. I did learn to use my right a bit when I broke my left wrist in middle school and couldn't move my hand well, but I still do almost everything left-handed. (Except batting in baseball- for some reason I do that right-handed....)

And I will confirm what plastron posted about the origins of "sinister" from the Latin for "on the left". But in Roman times that was not a negative trait. On the contrary it was considered a sign of favor by the gods or of being born lucky. However it was later changed in Christian times to be a sign of witchcraft or wickedness. Left-handed people in the Middle Ages often concealed the fact or learned to use the other in order to avoid being accused of being heretics or witches.

FredWolfLeonardo
10-07-2017, 01:38 AM
I was physically spanked, sometimes pretty hard, but I don't mind it looking back. I wouldn't love my parents any less :)

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-12-2017, 03:55 PM
**** was scary back in the day, but these are fun conversations to have now that people can look back and laugh. What did your parents do to punish you guys?

My mother would throw dry rice on the floor and make me kneel on it for hours on end. After a while the little grains would cut into the skin and leave scars and ish. And another time my mother got so angry that she ripped out the little rod thing to open and close the blinds and whipped me with it. Good times.

Oh, and being Latino, I am quite familiar with la chancla.

What about you guys?

All this sounds like nothing else than pure child abuse. Even by the standards of many years or decades ago, or what your parents came from.

Cure
10-12-2017, 04:26 PM
Only you know, it wasn't. I was a piece of **** who deserved it.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan
10-12-2017, 04:30 PM
Only you know, it wasn't. I was a piece of **** who deserved it.

Still child abuse.

Cure
10-12-2017, 05:32 PM
Haha, nah.

Refractive Reflections
10-12-2017, 07:11 PM
I really can't believe there are schools in the U.S. that allow teachers to physically hit the kids. If that happened up here in New York the teachers would immediately be fired and face possible fines or jail time. I'm glad I live in a democratic state of free thinkers.

Any form of abuse to young children in schools should in no way be tolerated. Even when I was a kid in the 90's I thought this law was around.

Here's a dilemma for you CyberCubed, and anyone else if they want to answer. What happens if you have a 5-10 year old kid, who doesn't want to be disciplined with "time-outs"? Who still throws tantrums after taking away their privileges, starts using profanity on their own parents, spitting on others, vandalizes their parents' home. ...And still continues to hit others when he/she doesn't get their way, making a big scene shouting and making tantrums, knowing that their parents' don't want to create a big scene in public? How would you handle the situation CyberCubed?

FredWolfLeonardo
10-12-2017, 07:23 PM
Here's a dilemma for you CyberCubed, and anyone else if they want to answer. What happens if you have a 5-10 year old kid, who doesn't want to be disciplined with "time-outs"? Who still throws tantrums after taking away their privileges, starts using profanity on their own parents, spitting on others, vandalizes their parents' home. ...And still continues to hit others when he/she doesn't get their way, making a big scene shouting and making tantrums, knowing that their parents' don't want to create a big scene in public? How would you handle the situation CyberCubed?

What a spoilt and bratty hypothetical child.

Honour thy Mother and thy Father people.

Spike Spiegel
10-12-2017, 07:54 PM
Honour thy Mother and thy Father people.

That's hard to do when a parent is an alcoholic, has a personality disorder, or suffers from some other serious psychological issue. And it's all too easy for even well-behaved kids to become victims.

Also, if a kid curses at people, vandalizes property, spits on people, and acts badly, they had to have learned that behavior somewhere. That sort of thing doesn't develop in a vacuum.

TurtleWA
10-12-2017, 07:55 PM
Here's a dilemma for you CyberCubed, and anyone else if they want to answer. What happens if you have a 5-10 year old kid, who doesn't want to be disciplined with "time-outs"? Who still throws tantrums after taking away their privileges, starts using profanity on their own parents, spitting on others, vandalizes their parents' home. ...And still continues to hit others when he/she doesn't get their way, making a big scene shouting and making tantrums, knowing that their parents' don't want to create a big scene in public? How would you handle the situation CyberCubed?

Easy answer. Go to Dr. Phil.

IndigoErth
10-12-2017, 08:58 PM
Unless he/she has genetically severe mental/emotional issues, that kid most certainly has parents who should be ashamed at their clear failures; either terrible parenting or an utter lack of it. Whole family should probably at least start with counseling...

And if they still refuse to straighten up, well... reform schools and others for problem kids are a thing for a reason. *stifles evil grin*

Katie
10-13-2017, 02:23 PM
I agree. If a kid acts out that badly and there is no illness involved, it is a clear failure in parenting where the kid has learned he will get his way if he causes a big enough scene.

My mother would have dragged me out of the public space and I would have gotten hell from both parents at home. Terrible behavior should never be rewarded just to shut the kid up. If he gets what he wants by screaming and causing a scene, guess what? Junior learned a new skill.

ETA: “doesn’t want to be disciplined with ‘time outs’...”. WTF? What kid gets any say in the punishment? This puts too much power and control in the kids hands. I don’t care how you want to be punished. If you act out, there is a punishment. Period. Of my choosing.

FredWolfLeonardo
10-13-2017, 03:25 PM
I believe parents have a right to be treated with respect and honoured even if they're the most cruel and painful people you can imagine.

They have that right simply by being parents. Even expressing annoyance at them is absolutely forbidden in my moral values.

CyberCubed
10-13-2017, 03:37 PM
Katie, you don't have any kids, do you? Would you repeat the things your mother did with you if you did?

TurtleWA
10-13-2017, 03:55 PM
I believe parents have a right to be treated with respect and honoured even if they're the most cruel and painful people you can imagine.

How are you defining honor and respect?

FredWolfLeonardo
10-13-2017, 03:57 PM
How are you defining honor and respect?

Talk to them with decency and don't go out of your way to belittle them.

If they are doing something wrong, lovingly explain their error to them without the slightest hint of annoyance and sarcasm in your voice.

If they ask you to do something thats not immoral, do it without questioning them.

Respect their wishes and financially support them.

If they wish to be left alone, do not disturb them but go out of your way to make sure they are doing well and let them know you'll always be there in case they need you.

plastroncafe
10-13-2017, 04:10 PM
Yeah, I never did truck with that Keep Sweet stuff.

I will always love my mother and father, but that doesn't mean I'm going to set myself on fire to keep them warm.

I do feel the need to add that for much of my growing-up years my mom had a sign hanging in the family kitchen:
Be nice to your children, they pick your nursing home.

TurtleWA
10-13-2017, 04:14 PM
If they ask you to do something thats not immoral, do it without questioning them.

I'm glad this is part of the definition. Because when you said "the most cruel and painful people you can imagine." Well I have a very good imagination. Let's just leave it at that. :ohwell:

Katie
10-13-2017, 04:58 PM
Katie, you don't have any kids, do you? Would you repeat the things your mother did with you if you did?

I raised a child for the past six years. Not my biological child, but I raised him. And yes, I would absolutely have marched his a$$ out of a public space if he acted out like that.

He’s a good kid though and that’s because before his mom died she raised him well and punished as necessary. And from what I understand we have similar styles in that regard.

MsMarvelDuckie
10-29-2017, 08:11 PM
Yeah, I never did truck with that Keep Sweet stuff.

I will always love my mother and father, but that doesn't mean I'm going to set myself on fire to keep them warm.

I do feel the need to add that for much of my growing-up years my mom had a sign hanging in the family kitchen:
Be nice to your children, they pick your nursing home.


Exactly. I love my mom to pieces. My dad- not so much. If the time ever comes to pick his nursing home, let's just say he'd spend his days alone. Because I would not be coming to visit.


I believe parents have a right to be treated with respect and honoured even if they're the most cruel and painful people you can imagine.

They have that right simply by being parents. Even expressing annoyance at them is absolutely forbidden in my moral values.


I have to disagree. Just being "parents" does not automatically entitle them to be treated with respect if they are abusive or neglectful. Respect must be EARNED, even by a parent. Why should a child have to respect someone who does not treat them as a human being SHOULD be treated? This has always been one of my biggest gripes with so-called "Christian values". They are often full of hypocrisy and double standards. A parent who abuses their kids does NOT get to claim parenthood as a mantle of respect. They did not EARN it.

Glitter Wand
10-29-2017, 09:07 PM
I have to disagree. Just being "parents" does not automatically entitle them to be treated with respect if they are abusive or neglectful. Respect must be EARNED, even by a parent. Why should a child have to respect someone who does not treat them as a human being SHOULD be treated? This has always been one of my biggest gripes with so-called "Christian values". They are often full of hypocrisy and double standards. A parent who abuses their kids does NOT get to claim parenthood as a mantle of respect. They did not EARN it.
I completely agree with you. Respect is earned, not forced via physical discipline or insults. At the same time, I don't think it is right to disrespect someone right back if they are disrespecting you. That just makes no progress.
One thing that really irritates me is that, just because someone is a parent, they have the right to "Smack" his/her child or deny them food to teach them right from wrong. I believe children can be taught with words. Consistency really is key, and that applies to just about anything. I mean, if you were making a batch of muffins, and they got burned, you'd start over again until they came out perfectly. Sure, it may take a while, but it'd be worth it in the end. The same rule applies to raising children. Parents should treat them with the same amount of respect as they want to be treated. Children are people, after all.
I apologize if this sounds preachy. I'm just stating my opinion.

FredWolfLeonardo
10-30-2017, 12:12 AM
I have to disagree. Just being "parents" does not automatically entitle them to be treated with respect if they are abusive or neglectful. Respect must be EARNED, even by a parent. Why should a child have to respect someone who does not treat them as a human being SHOULD be treated? This has always been one of my biggest gripes with so-called "Christian values". They are often full of hypocrisy and double standards. A parent who abuses their kids does NOT get to claim parenthood as a mantle of respect. They did not EARN it.

Well regardless of how good or bad a parent is, they are still in the end a parent who provide half of a child's DNA. I'm not endorsing abuse but I do believe a certain degree of respect is owed to someone who did play a role in giving birth to you, or is your guardian if we are talking about adoptive parents. Just my two cents.

plastroncafe
10-30-2017, 12:50 AM
Abusive people are not worthy of respect, regardless of how much DNA they contribute.

FredWolfLeonardo
10-30-2017, 12:55 AM
Abusive people are not worthy of respect, regardless of how much DNA they contribute.

Agree to Disagree there. It all comes down to our worldviews regarding what is inherently valuable and meaningful.

Do I believe abuse is wrong? Yes, but I think there are certain degrees of respect everyone deserves regardless of what they have done, by virtue of who or what they are. And parents by that definition are always worthy of respectful treatment by their children in my book.

Leo656
10-30-2017, 04:02 AM
Agree to Disagree there. It all comes down to our worldviews regarding what is inherently valuable and meaningful.

Do I believe abuse is wrong? Yes, but I think there are certain degrees of respect everyone deserves regardless of what they have done, by virtue of who or what they are. And parents by that definition are always worthy of respectful treatment by their children in my book.


Nope. Wrong. No "agree to disagree" or "with all due respect." Sometimes, people are just wrong. This is one of those times. You're wrong.

Here's two uncomfortable facts: Nobody asked to be born, and statistically, most kids are accidents. And among the many, many people who in fact WISH they were never born, much of the time, at least one of their two "DNA Donors" is in fact the main reason why they feel that way.

Many parents beat, insult, threaten, steal from, molest, rape, and altogether abuse their children. Not ONE of those people deserves even the tiniest modicum of respect. Not as a so-called "parent", or even a human being. You don't get a pass that absolves you of all your sins, just because you spunked inside of someone or were on the receiving end of same. I know some cultures and religions teach that you DO, or SHOULD, get that "pass"; not shockingly, those cultures have astronomically high levels of parental or familial abuse. Gee, it's almost as if they teach you that your parents are beyond judgment or reproach, and that you have to love and respect them no matter what, just so they can keep getting away with the abuse! Funny how that works, isn't it?

"You have to respect your parents no matter what" is the main thing an abuser will repeat over and over to justify their abuse, often WHILE the act of abuse is occurring. It's bullsh*t. It doesn't wash.

Many parents in my family were severely abusive. As a result, a lot of the children grew up to have serious mental illness. Some of them self-harm, a couple of them killed themselves, and several threatened or tried to. And in every case, at some point, there was an abusive parent screaming "I'm your mother/father! You HAVE to respect me! You wouldn't even BE here if it wasn't for me!" As if it was a favor, and we should be grateful for the living hell they delivered us into, when none of us even had a choice, and if we did, it's unlikely we would have chosen any of what we got.

Just to be clear, I do make a distinction between kids getting hit or spanked and full-blown abuse. I actually think spanking and the like, within reason, is actually kind of necessary. But if you're punching your kids in the face or throwing bottles at their head, you've crossed the line and no longer deserve any respect, as a parent or otherwise. To say nothing of sexual abuse and the like. If a guy rapes his daughter, she shouldn't "respect" him, and he shouldn't be allowed to keep breathing. "But he's her father!" Who HONESTLY f*cking cares, in that scenario?! At that point WHAT the f*ck does it MATTER that he's her father? Doesn't it matter MORE that he's a worthless scumbag? Come ON.

This should be pretty cut and dry. I don't know why it still isn't, for some people. People do NOT deserve automatic respect and admiration, just for being "parents", if they are in fact garbage human beings. To say they DO only enables abuse, and kind of makes you a bad person.

Sorry, but it's a pretty black-and-white scenario. People shouldn't enable abuse by coming up with loopholes for it.

Have a nice day.

FredWolfLeonardo
10-30-2017, 04:52 AM
Nope. Wrong. No "agree to disagree" or "with all due respect." Sometimes, people are just wrong. This is one of those times. You're wrong.

A pretty bold claim, lets tackle all of your points.

Here's two uncomfortable facts: Nobody asked to be born, and statistically, most kids are accidents. And among the many, many people who in fact WISH they were never born, much of the time, at least one of their two "DNA Donors" is in fact the main reason why they feel that way.

Uncomfortable to whom? What are you trying to argue here? That life is only worth living if someone asked for it? Not only is that an incredibly egotistical, arrogant and self-centred way of looking at life, but it denies any intrinsic value due the worth of one's life being determined by their circumstances.

Many parents beat, insult, threaten, steal from, molest, rape, and altogether abuse their children. Not ONE of those people deserves even the tiniest modicum of respect. Not as a so-called "parent", or even a human being. You don't get a pass that absolves you of all your sins, just because you spunked inside of someone or were on the receiving end of same. I know some cultures and religions teach that you DO, or SHOULD, get that "pass"; not shockingly, those cultures have astronomically high levels of parental or familial abuse. Gee, it's almost as if they teach you that your parents are beyond judgment or reproach, and that you have to love and respect them no matter what, just so they can keep getting away with the abuse! Funny how that works, isn't it?

You're misrepresenting my position, never did I claim that offering parents respect is a way of "absolving their sins". A sin is still a sin, regardless of who does it, but it does not negate the fact that we should treat others a certain way regardless of the circumstances. The inherent nature of cultures and religions that advocate for unconditional loving of parents is not one meant to make parents get away from abuse, but rather it is for the benefit of the children themselves. Unconditional love takes alot of ego busting and selflessness, but in the end it turns children into stronger and more firm people who not only are happier and more satisfied with life, but also prepared for challanges, as it won't take One or a million abusive parents to destroy their self-worth and their dignity.

"You have to respect your parents no matter what" is the main thing an abuser will repeat over and over to justify their abuse, often WHILE the act of abuse is occurring. It's bullsh*t. It doesn't wash.

People will use any statement to justify abuse, no matter how true that statement may be. Respecting parents doesn't mean permitting them to scourge or slander you, Respecting parents means talking to them with utmost love and loyalty, and not going out of your way to curse and attack them. If anything, attacking and cursing will only make things worse, even in situations of abuse.

Many parents in my family were severely abusive. As a result, a lot of the children grew up to have serious mental illness. Some of them self-harm, a couple of them killed themselves, and several threatened or tried to. And in every case, at some point, there was an abusive parent screaming "I'm your mother/father! You HAVE to respect me! You wouldn't even BE here if it wasn't for me!" As if it was a favor, and we should be grateful for the living hell they delivered us into, when none of us even had a choice, and if we did, it's unlikely we would have chosen any of what we got.

I can't speak of the personal situation that you or your siblings went through, but I can say that giving birth to children is not giving them a favour that they must pay you back for, that is a shallow way of looking at life so your parents were wrong in that regard.

True respect, both from children to parents and vice versa, is not a favour meant to benefit one party. No, not at all. That would not be respect at all, it would just be a bargain. Rather, true respect is to selflessly act towards another person at one's best no matter how bad the other person may be.
The key word is selflessly, with no expectation of any return benefit.

Just to be clear, I do make a distinction between kids getting hit or spanked and full-blown abuse. I actually think spanking and the like, within reason, is actually kind of necessary. But if you're punching your kids in the face or throwing bottles at their head, you've crossed the line and no longer deserve any respect, as a parent or otherwise. To say nothing of sexual abuse and the like. If a guy rapes his daughter, she shouldn't "respect" him, and he shouldn't be allowed to keep breathing. "But he's her father!" Who HONESTLY f*cking cares, in that scenario?! At that point WHAT the f*ck does it MATTER that he's her father? Doesn't it matter MORE that he's a worthless scumbag? Come ON.

Will her disrespect of him undo any of the abuse and make her any happier? No, it will not change anything and only cause her to be more frustrated. I've already said this, but respect doesn't mean allowing someone to rape you. Whether we can escape abuse or not is a matter of circumstance, as sometimes help can be easily called for, while at other times people are unfortunately unheard in their cries. But it doesn't change the fact that getting frustrating, attacking, slandering and cursing will accomplish absolutely nothing of benefit, neither to the abuser nor the abused. That is the fact that is uncomfortable for many people to accept, as they lust and desire control over their life, trying to fill their egos.

This should be pretty cut and dry. I don't know why it still isn't, for some people. People do NOT deserve automatic respect and admiration, just for being "parents", if they are in fact garbage human beings. To say they DO only enables abuse, and kind of makes you a bad person.

Sorry, but it's a pretty black-and-white scenario. People shouldn't enable abuse by coming up with loopholes for it.

Have a nice day.

Oh, it is clear and dry definetly for those with views opposing to yours, do not think that people who unconditionally honour their mother and father are ambigious about it.

They are the ones who are truly aware of how life really works, knowing that abuse does not enter a doorstep the moment someone "enables" it. That is the uncomfortable reality you must come to terms with, that pain and abuse cannot be avoided in this fallen world. Does that mean we will stop trying to find ways to avoid it and endorse abuse? Absolutely Not, but we must come to terms with it and accept it for what it is, not as an act of justification but for our own sake.

Leo656
10-30-2017, 05:40 AM
Only one bit of all that actually holds much relevance, and it's why your entire argument fails:

Respecting parents means talking to them with utmost love and loyalty

Abusive parents don't deserve that. Not even a little bit. That's where your point falls apart: You're saying that in spite of whatever horrific actions they've committed, they still deserve "love and loyalty". They deserve neither love nor loyalty. Maybe if they eventually repent, and are sincere about it, and take great measures to make reparations. Maybe. But absolutely not otherwise.

I believe parents have a right to be treated with respect and honoured even if they're the most cruel and painful people you can imagine.

They have that right simply by being parents. Even expressing annoyance at them is absolutely forbidden in my moral values.

^^ That sh*t there? Straight up f*cking bananas. Indefensible.

I'm going to go out on a limb, and assume that you were never beaten or raped/molested by the same people who were responsible for raising you and teaching you morality. If I'm right, then by all means, count yourself extremely lucky, and be grateful.

But, I'm going to respectfully ask you to STOP telling people who HAVE been, how they're "supposed" to feel or react about it. You seem like a nice guy but your argument absolutely reeks of privilege.

Again: I ask you to stop telling people who've been physically and/or sexually abused by their parents that they should show them any kind of "respect", "love", or "loyalty". Those particular parents do NOT deserve any, and it's in no way your place to tell abuse victims the best way to engage their abuser. Whether you realize it or not, it belittles and diminishes what they've been through.

Just don't.

Shark_Blade
10-30-2017, 06:41 AM
I believe parents have a right to be treated with respect and honoured even if they're the most cruel and painful people you can imagine.

They have that right simply by being parents. Even expressing annoyance at them is absolutely forbidden in my moral values.

Even if they're the most cruel and painful people?

Let's see if your parents dunk your face down a pail full of acid - would you still treat them with "honor & respect"? :)

FredWolfLeonardo
10-30-2017, 12:00 PM
Even if they're the most cruel and painful people?

Let's see if your parents dunk your face down a pail full of acid - would you still treat them with "honor & respect"? :)

Yes I still would, even if they tortured me day and night long using chainsaws and molten hot pitchforks. How much of a difference would it make to me in what is in my heart? Absolutely None.

The reason being is that I don't see true honour and respect as being something that is given out or taken as a commodity to make other people feel better or worse. True honour and respect are not meant to be given to the other person, they are for you, so that you will be at peace with the world around you. So no matter how painful life gets, how poor one may be, how much they have been oppressed, their spirit will always stay strong and will be able to endure any sort of challenge, as you will be able to see beauty even during life's ugliest moments.

Search up Palden Gyasto.

Andrew NDB
10-30-2017, 12:06 PM
Just to be clear, I do make a distinction between kids getting hit or spanked and full-blown abuse. I actually think spanking and the like, within reason, is actually kind of necessary.

It needs to be there, on the shelf. Like the U.S. nuclear arsenal... we don't want to use it but if you really go crazy out there we can nuke your ass.

plastroncafe
10-30-2017, 12:21 PM
Agree to Disagree there. It all comes down to our worldviews regarding what is inherently valuable and meaningful.

Do I believe abuse is wrong? Yes, but I think there are certain degrees of respect everyone deserves regardless of what they have done, by virtue of who or what they are. And parents by that definition are always worthy of respectful treatment by their children in my book.

I don't think you actually know what respect means.
I wouldn't deny someone basic human dignity, which I think is the concept you're talking about, and not respect.

Words have meaning.
Learn the words.

FredWolfLeonardo
10-30-2017, 12:28 PM
I don't think you actually know what respect means.
I wouldn't deny someone basic human dignity, which I think is the concept you're talking about, and not respect.

Words have meaning.
Learn the words.

My definition of respect is different from yours.

I believe the core disagreement between me and everyone else here boils down to how we define respect, in addition to what life is worth. As I've said, I don't see respect as a commodity or a bargain at all that is given and taken, as that in my opinion is a shallow and selfish way of looking at it. Rather, respect is an attitude that one lives by throughout all of life and towards everyone.

plastroncafe
10-30-2017, 12:30 PM
My definition of respect is different from yours.

I believe the core disagreement between me and everyone else here boils down to how we define respect, in addition to what life is worth. As I've said, I don't see respect as a commodity or a bargain at all that is given and taken, as that in my opinion is a shallow and selfish way of looking at it. Rather, respect is an attitude that one lives by throughout all of life and towards everyone.

How nice for you.

ProphetofGanja
10-30-2017, 12:47 PM
My definition of respect is different from yours.

I believe the core disagreement between me and everyone else here boils down to how we define respect, in addition to what life is worth. As I've said, I don't see respect as a commodity or a bargain at all that is given and taken, as that in my opinion is a shallow and selfish way of looking at it. Rather, respect is an attitude that one lives by throughout all of life and towards everyone.

http://78.media.tumblr.com/d7ce73e7835c8ab0f32b2314a7a416d7/tumblr_oynd9uZhN01qelupoo1_1280.png

The meanings of words aren't really up for debate; part of the covenant of language is that we agree on what words will mean.

FredWolfLeonardo
10-30-2017, 12:54 PM
http://78.media.tumblr.com/d7ce73e7835c8ab0f32b2314a7a416d7/tumblr_oynd9uZhN01qelupoo1_1280.png

The meanings of words aren't really up for debate; part of the covenant of language is that we agree on what words will mean.

Definitions change over time, and there is always debate.

Vicky82
10-30-2017, 12:55 PM
Both me and my sister were either smacked on the bum (using a hand not using objects) or sent to our bedrooms or threatened to sent us to boarding school.

When my Dad was at School he said some teachers did some awful stuff. There was the usual hitting kids with a cane, pulling there ear, but there was also teachers throwing objects at kids and one teacher threw a kid across the room.

My Mums School wasn't that bad, they mostly made kids stand up for hours, if they were naughty.

ProphetofGanja
10-30-2017, 12:59 PM
Definitions change over time, and there is always debate.

True. Some things change, some things stay the same, and sometimes you realize that there's a better word to describe what you're trying to say.

MsMarvelDuckie
10-30-2017, 03:00 PM
Yes I still would, even if they tortured me day and night long using chainsaws and molten hot pitchforks. How much of a difference would it make to me in what is in my heart? Absolutely None.

The reason being is that I don't see true honour and respect as being something that is given out or taken as a commodity to make other people feel better or worse. True honour and respect are not meant to be given to the other person, they are for you, so that you will be at peace with the world around you. So no matter how painful life gets, how poor one may be, how much they have been oppressed, their spirit will always stay strong and will be able to endure any sort of challenge, as you will be able to see beauty even during life's ugliest moments.

Search up Palden Gyasto.


And you would be the world's biggest doormat for it. Let's be honest here- a parent is not going to change or be less abusive just because the child bows down to them. All that does is teach the child to roll over and take it. Take it from someone who has been through it. As a child with an abusive parent, there is no such thing as respect because it does not exist for that child. The child must fight back against the abuse in any way they can, even if it means simply standing up and refusing to give admiration or esteem for cruel and inhuman treatment. Showing "respect" to an abusive parent does not make the child stronger- it makes them weak and more likely to allow further abuse later in life. It makes them seek to avoid confrontation or stand up for themselves because they confuse respect with fear. Abusive parents are not trying to instill respect but fear. That is how they control children. It is purely oppressive and unworthy of true respect.

Respect means giving someone your admiration and treating them as worthy of such. An abusive parent is NOT worthy. Some people simply do not deserve admiration of any kind. Simply playing a part in creating a child does not entitle someone to the admiration of said child if the parent is cruel, abusive or neglctful. There are so many people out there who do not treat their children as human beings who deserve dignity and love, but as property that they can do whatever they want with. Those people are dispicable excuses for human beings and have no business being parents and are unworthy of the title.


http://78.media.tumblr.com/d7ce73e7835c8ab0f32b2314a7a416d7/tumblr_oynd9uZhN01qelupoo1_1280.png

The meanings of words aren't really up for debate; part of the covenant of language is that we agree on what words will mean.


This exactly.

FredWolfLeonardo
10-30-2017, 03:16 PM
And you would be the world's biggest doormat for it. Let's be honest here- a parent is not going to change or be less abusive just because the child bows down to them. All that does is teach the child to roll over and take it. Take it from someone who has been through it. As a child with an abusive parent, there is no such thing as respect because it does not exist for that child. The child must fight back against the abuse in any way they can, even if it means simply standing up and refusing to give admiration or esteem for cruel and inhuman treatment. Showing "respect" to an abusive parent does not make the child stronger- it makes them weak and more likely to allow further abuse later in life. It makes them seek to avoid confrontation or stand up for themselves because they confuse respect with fear. Abusive parents are not trying to instill respect but fear. That is how they control children. It is purely oppressive and unworthy of true respect.

The aim of respect is not to hope another person will change, nor is it to change their actions. A cruel parent will be cruel regardless of whether a child hates them or loves them. There are ways of fighting back against abuse without holding hatred in your heart for another person or going out of your way to curse and attack them.

And on the contrary, dealing with a situation without holding grudges is the very definition of strength. Its easy to start disrespecting and slandering an abusive parent, thinking it will make things better, but it only ends not only making them angrier, but hurting you as well from all the hatred and feelings of revenge.

plastroncafe
10-30-2017, 03:22 PM
Unless you've got actual experience with regards to the topic at hand, I think it might be best for you to listen to those of us that do.

Because you're being awfully disrespectful otherwise.

FredWolfLeonardo
10-30-2017, 03:28 PM
Unless you've got actual experience with regards to the topic at hand

And what If I do?

plastroncafe
10-30-2017, 03:31 PM
And what If I do?

Then you're being a dick to people for reasons other than being holier than thou.

MsMarvelDuckie
10-30-2017, 03:47 PM
It's not about changing them though. It is about denying them the thing they are supposedly demanding (verbally) while also refusing to just lie down and take their crap. Because there is no obligation to take it in silence just because it is "respectful". If someone is trying to hurt you, would you just keep your mouth shut and take it? Of course not. You would speak out, fight back, or seek help. It is no different just because it is a parent doing it. No one said anything about hating or holding grudges. But REAL respect (not fear or "acceptance") MUST be earned or it is worthless. What I said is that children should not have to just accept such treatment, but are within their right as human beings to refuse to acknowledge any form of regard for a parent who has abused their title. Again, respect means ADMIRATION and HIGH REGARD. It means that you deem someone worthy of your high esteem.

Sadly what you are talking about is NOT respect but blind loyalty. Something that does no one any good. It is the kicked dog syndrome, where it keeps returning to an abusive master out of dependance and misplaced loyalty in hopes of some sign of real affection. Children deserve better than that. They have NO obligation to give a cruel or neglectful parent their loyalty and high regard just because that person was responsible for their being born.

You also ignored the part of my post about how such abuse TRULY affects children. It leaves scars that last a lifetime and completely colors their relationships in later life. There IS no respect for a child whose parent(s) abuse them. They do not ever experience it themselves. What they learn is not respect but fear and how to avoid confrontation. That is not the same thing.

Doing what you are told and saying please, thank you, or keeping your mouth shut because a parent orders it (and will hit or otherwise hurt you if you don't) is not showing respect, it is bowing down out of fear and self-preservation. Nothing more. You are lucky if you had parents who actually gave you the kind of respect you think you mean, but for those of us who were not so lucky, you cannot possibly understand the difference. It is literally worlds apart.

Leo656
10-31-2017, 01:34 AM
This repeated insistence that an abuser automatically deserves honor and loyalty from their victims, simply by way of having spawned them, is SO f*cking wrong and insane.

Have you been inside a mental hospital, or even group counseling, "sir"? Have you seen, up close and personal, what the kind of abuse you're advocating does to its victims and their mental health? Do you have any idea how dangerous that "But they're your father/mother..." line is, and how it can push people into killing themselves?

Because I've gotten to know some of those people pretty well. And your attitude is toxic. I've listened to people - often women - talk about how they've felt "trapped" by their abusive circumstances, like nobody understood or cared about them, and how they were told over and over by their "family" that they had no choice but to accept the abuse and keep suffering - because after all, "They're your parents!" And a LOT of those people would honestly rather be dead, than show their worthless scumbag "parents" even the tiniest bit if "honor" or "respect". A lot of them DO try to kill themselves, and some of them succeed. Because all that bullsh*t does is reinforce the belief that their situation is hopeless, and that they don't matter.

It's not right that they feel that way. Telling them, "You HAVE to love and respect your parents, even if they treat you like sh*t," is part of WHY they feel that way. It's belittling them, and devaluing what they've been through. You're telling them that some ceremonial nonsense about "family" and "blood is thicker than water", counts for more than what they've been put through.

You. Are. Wrong.

Meanwhile, as others have pointed out, your very definition of "Respect" is warped. Firstly, Self-Respect comes before any other kind; if you don't respect yourself, you simply can't respect anyone else. Abuse robs people of their self-respect; justifying the abuse digs an even deeper hole. "Showing respect" to the person abusing you isn't actually "respect" at all, because again, the victim has been stripped of any self-respect, until they find a way to no longer be a victim. Thus, anything they show to their abuser is NOT "respect", it's merely platitudes, given in the hope of a respite from the abuse.

SO. First, the victim has to find a way to regain self-respect, and remove themselves from being a victim. Then, IF they choose, there can be a period of forgiveness and healing, and following that, POSSIBLY things can mend enough for them to once again show love and respect to their abuser, IF they wish it. But that's the only way it works, and it's entirely up to the victim. It is NOT a matter of, "Well, they're your parents!" No. 100% Wrong.

Since it's kind of to the actual topic of the thread, I'll use myself as a case in point. When I was a kid, I went to school with "suspicious" bruises often enough that DYFS was sent to the house several times. My mother sometimes got drunk and threw bottles and things at me. One time she tied my hands and feet with belts and then beat me with a thicker belt. We didn't have a single wooden cooking spoon in the house by a certain point, because she'd broken all of them over my back. My father once slammed my face onto a windowsill because I was taking too long to get ready for bed. Another time, when I was late for school, he chased me into the neighbor's house, beat me bloody with a long, thick branch, threw me in the car by my hair, drove me to school and pushed me out of the car onto the sidewalk, bleeding, in front of a bunch of people, then drove away, cursing at me.

There were lots of other stories. I lied to the school staff and DYFS because I didn't want to get put into a foster home. Plus, a lot of family members told me I "deserved" it, so I believed them. After a couple years of therapy and counseling that the school paid for, I saw things differently. Because the thing is, I wasn't getting hit because of anything I did wrong; they were just drug addicts, and I was just "in the way" by my very existence. Answer the phone for a bill collector? That's a beating. Accidentally hang up on Mom's drug dealer? That's a beating. And so on and so forth. It took a LONG time for me to realize they were completely wrong, because I'd been told otherwise by a lot of people.

After I turned 12, I got fed up and decided nobody was ever going to hit me again. The next time my Mom tried to use the belt, I took it from her and hit myself with it until I was bleeding all over; it scared her so much she never tried it again. After she died, Dad got worse on the drugs and turned mean. I didn't care. He liked to try and throw punches; I made him a promise, for every one he threw at me, he'd get two back, and mine were harder. I kicked my father's ass MANY times over the years, because he was an asshole and I am not a victim.

Now, this might sound crazy, BUT, through all of that, he and I DID reach a point of reconciliation and respect, but only AFTER he'd changed his ways. For his part, he told me many times that he respected and admired me for being someone who would never back down and always stand up for myself. And he did have a lot of admirable qualities as a human being, such as being extremely hardworking, very intelligent in certain areas, extremely generous - BUT I wasn't going to give him any credit for that sh*t while he was smoking crack, stealing all my money and trying to kick my ass! :lol: Once he was forced to change his ways, we were able to finally reach an understanding. NOT before.

I also respected him for being honest enough to admit that he never really "got" how to be a parent and that he probably wasn't cut out for it. Most people don't have that level of self-awareness. But that in itself was another huge step; all my life, while he was abusing me, it was "You're just a lousy rotten kid, and we never should have had you!" Later on, it was, "You didn't do anything wrong; I just never wanted to hear what you had to say (about the drugs and abuse), and I never figured out how to do what I was supposed to do." But even getting to a level where he could admit that, changed our entire relationship. Without that, we may not have reconciled.

Point of fact, his other kids skipped his funeral. One of them posted on Facebook that they were glad he was dead. I, the one he did way worse to, way more often, for many more years, was the one who was able to reach an understanding with him. Go figure.

SO, yeah. Call me an expert on the subject. That's why the whole, "Love and respect your parents no matter what, even if they're horrible" BS pisses me off. Because it's ignorant and dangerous. I've been on all sides of it; it's 100% up to the abuse victim how they engage their abuser. And if they say, "F*ck them, I don't care if they're my parents, they're dead to me," then that's entirely within their rights.

Try and be a little more respectful of THEM, please. Nobody on this Earth commands respect, simply because of who they are. To say they do is wrong. Period.

Glitter Wand
10-31-2017, 10:35 AM
I agree, and you have my condolences. When I hear stories such as yours, it makes me thankful I didn't have to endure that when I was growing up.
I guess my views on respect are in between. I completely agree with the fact that it is earned, not forced through fear. At the same, I will treat people with general courtes, regardless if they disrespect me. In other words, I won't turn around and throw insults back at them. In doing so, I'd be just as bad. I am beginning to see your and others' points. Just because someone is a parent, supervisor, or teacher, does not automatically mean they should be bowed down to...I think.

Papenbrook
11-03-2017, 02:50 AM
I am so sorry that some of you had to endure abuse/neglect throughout your childhood years. You didn't deserve to go through those traumatic experiences.

I wish everyone well.

myconius
11-12-2017, 12:45 AM
Just to be clear, I do make a distinction between kids getting hit or spanked and full-blown abuse. I actually think spanking and the like, within reason, is actually kind of necessary. But if you're punching your kids in the face or throwing bottles at their head, you've crossed the line and no longer deserve any respect, as a parent or otherwise. To say nothing of sexual abuse and the like. If a guy rapes his daughter, she shouldn't "respect" him, and he shouldn't be allowed to keep breathing. "But he's her father!" Who HONESTLY f*cking cares, in that scenario?! At that point WHAT the f*ck does it MATTER that he's her father? Doesn't it matter MORE that he's a worthless scumbag? Come ON.


It needs to be there, on the shelf. Like the U.S. nuclear arsenal... we don't want to use it but if you really go crazy out there we can nuke your ass.

this is pretty much how i feel on the matter.
i was spanked as a child, and i'm sure i was well deserving of it.

but there are limits that should never be crossed as Leo656 has described.
if a child is beaten senseless or other vile disgusting acts are being done then that "parent" not only DOES NOT deserve the respect of their child, but the child should have every right to disown said "parent".

respect is earned, not granted.

Wesley
11-12-2017, 12:06 PM
Spanked by parents, though I deserved it.

Also, there was a nun at school who scared the hell out of students, though it was emotional abuse rather than physical abuse. Unbelievably petty about everything, she was like a cross between Hitler and the Wicked Witch of the West. Oddly enough, she seemed to have turned into Mary Poppins years later. Maybe she woke up one morning and understood the mysteries of the universe?

Sorry to hear about all the people who suffered traumatic experiences in their childhood.