TMNT and martial arts

[Mikael]

I used to go to Karate with my classmates back those
good old TMNT days. We often talked about the sneaky moves
the turtles often pulled off in the show and swore each other we´d
some day become fearsome fighters like them...

In 1998, I went to Tae Kwon Do which I´ve been practising ever
since. For some reason, couple of years ago I went lazy and quit
the regular training and only went to gym seldom. I also tried some
Shaolin Kung Fu, but couldn´t afford it due to long distances
between home and training place.

Finding TMNT again though finally encouraged me to return to
regular, active training in the art of Tae Kwon Do. I´ll keep
master Splinter´s words of wisdom in my mind during every
exercise and fight.

Any other TMNT-inspired martial artists aboard?

[heretic888]

i study actual ninjutsu, the way of the ninja, and it was probably the Ninja Turtles that orginally spurred this interest.

however, i must tell you, that actual ninjutsu is as different as night and day from the conventional martial arts you study.

[terran631]

Ohh yeah. TMNT gave me my little boost into my profession which is teaching martial arts to both children and adults alike...but mainly children. I work for a sensei right now, but as soon as he branches schools I get one of my own. But like you I did go through a few years where I quit studying and though it was hard to go back I did. Good choice if you decide to return to training.

[Mikael]

, that actual ninjutsu is as different as night and day from the conventional martial arts


Yes, they sure are totally different things. The philosophy of the martial arts branch I represent is rather empty. We concentrate only physical
power and flexibility, whereas ninjutsu is a whole another world. The possibility of studying ninjutsu here where I live is quite desperate.

Perhaps you could lighten me a bit, what is ninjutsu in a nutshell?
Your weekly routines, for example?

[Karpo_007]

Isn't Ninjitsu an arto of assasination? Or atleast it used to be...

[heretic888]

what i do is mostly self-taught (then again, most ninja teach themselves a great deal, a sensei is only a guide).... although i do train with people who have studied at an actual dojo. I would recommend the books written by Stephen Hayes and Masaaki Hatsumi. Or, better yet, study at a Bujinkan dojo.

I will try to answer your questions as best as i can..... but you must make yoru questions MUCH more specific!!

[Azraelito]

i like the aikido haha i think shredder sometimes does some trick with that akakka.

[heretic888]

actually, aikido has much in common with ninpo in terms of basic footwork and fundamental theories. the main difference is, however, that aikido has, by and large, distorted its actual realistic combatic aplications whereas ninjutsu has not.

[Vespera Blaze]

I started taking martial arts before the turtles cartoon came out, which was my introduction to them (I discovered the comics shortly after and fell completely in love). They didn't influence me to start, but they did keep me at it long enough to 'graduate'.

I got my first degree black belt in TaeKwonDo, then taught on a volunteer basis for the next seven years. Admittedly there is is very little taught in class at the lower levels concerning spirituality, (although Ive noticed this changes from club to club) it does pick up once you start advancing through the black belt levels.

After I stopped teaching I took a couple of years of kendo, but my instructor retired and I have yet to find a replacement for him. None of his other students who were advanced enough wanted to take the class.

Next? I'm eyeing judo, or possibly Tai Chi.

[heretic888]

i would suggest ninjutsu.... hah!

but out of judo and tai chi, tai chi is far superior.

[Mikael]

I would recommend the books written by Stephen Hayes and Masaaki Hatsumi. Or, better yet, study at a Bujinkan dojo.

Thanks for the tips! Now you got me interested. I´ll try to find some of that literature you mentioned. :)

[Azraelito]

i made 2 months of judo i win a tournament akajajja i was very newbie but i had skill jajaja it was funny the i get bored and i leave.
The more cooler for me ara aikido,tai chi chuan,jet-kundo,ninjitsu wowww this one is very old and very cool and the art of the sword i dot know how to say it very well in english it isnt kendo is the art of the sword is the one steven seagal did wowwwwwww.

[Vespera Blaze]

ah...lets see if I get this straight.

Kendo is the japanese fencing yes, but Seagals main fighting style is Akido.

Although that does bring up a third option for me if I hop out of the asian martial arts, I've also been interested in taking up fencing in the french style

[heretic888]

i believe the art you are referring to is either kenjutsu or iaijutsu.

[Kameko]

*drowning in way too many Japanese terms*

[Vespera Blaze]

*slaps forehead*

sorry, I misread the post

[heretic888]

back to ninjutsu! hee :D

[Azraelito]

seagal is 7 dan in aikido and he studied the art of the sword.
the best in aikido is Yamada Sensei 8 dan the only one remaining he is 60 years old,that man it is very but very impressive he comes to argentina all the years one per year he is the one who take the exams for first dan.

[Vespera Blaze]

cool! now if only Seagal could act...

[heretic888]

the 'art of the sword' is kenjutsu.

[Azraelito]

ahahaha ups haha is like i have lag with my posts yes lag like in games kakakakak.
well thx for the info.
i dont know what dan is he?

[heretic888]

in case you're wondering.... the ninja method of unarmed combat is traditionally called ninpo taijutsu. or just taijutsu for short. ninjutsu refers to the ENTIRE collection of martial arts the ninja studies. taijutsu is the most impotant of these.

[Karpo_007]

Well Ninjas were assasins in ancient japan.... So why is ninjitsu unviolent?

[Machias Banshee]

Jeez, whacky thread guys :P :D

I've been in Karate for about a year now, and am at about blue belt level. I got an awesome sensei...she's one of the judges for the US Olympic Jujitsu team, has credentials about a mile long, and is an excellent teacher.

I'd wanted to get into Martial arts even before i had heard of the Turtles, cuz my Dad and Brothers were taking it too...(whacky coincidence huh? :P ) I was about 4 when they were in that. They've been out for a while, but now my entering has gotten them is hopefully gonna persuade them to get back into it... :)

Hey, Kameko, i can give you a link to my Sensei's Sensei's Dojo, and you can learn some of the words and such... I've been getting into the Japanese language too since last year. I never really got to get too deep into my interests at home, thanks to my annoying brothers, but here at college, I can finally do what i'm intrested in... :D

[Reznorite420]

I was in Karate for about 3 years, but it had nothing to do with TMNT. It all to do with my little anger problems and depression back in 4th grade. But I'll say this much; it definitely made me a more peaceful person!

[speedracer]

Ninjutsu is literally the art of invisibility.

So, strictly speaking, ninjutsu need not involve any martial arts at all.

However, ninjutsu is naturally used as basic training for some folks who like to engage in illegal activities. So some martial arts training is usually incorporated into a ninja's training, the goal being to learn how to defeat or eliminate enemies as cleanly as possible.

And yes, the Mirage Turtles did a little better job of practicing ninjutsu than the cartoon Turtles, but not much.

[Kali]

*ahem* While I've never had any formal training, I'm studying the art of ninjutsu. I tend to focus more on the mental and philosophical than the physical martial arts aspects.

[Machias Banshee]

I'd love to get into the mental aspects, but i just dont know who to go to...

[Kali]

*smirk* Pick up a book. I've got Masaaki Hatsumi's Ninjutsu History and Tradition (which is has good info but it's not much of a learning guide) and have read several of Stephen Hayes' books.

[heretic888]

here we go, one by one:

"Well Ninjas were assasins in ancient japan.... So why is ninjitsu unviolent?"
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now THAT is a HUGE misconception proliferated by shallow hollywood treatmeant of the subject. the primary goal of the ninja families in ancient Japan was endurance and perseverance in both the physical and psychological sense. sometimes, 'black ops' were required to ensure the safety of one's family (this was a period of almost uninterrupted civil warfare). but, ninja were not primarily assassins or killers. Few martial arts emphasize non-violence as much as ninpo (that is why there is so much of an emphasis on escape and 'invisibility'). Ninja studied their art for self-protection and self-development, just like today.
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"Ninjutsu is literally the art of invisibility.

So, strictly speaking, ninjutsu need not involve any martial arts at all.

However, ninjutsu is naturally used as basic training for some folks who like to engage in illegal activities. So some martial arts training is usually incorporated into a ninja's training, the goal being to learn how to defeat or eliminate enemies as cleanly as possible.

And yes, the Mirage Turtles did a little better job of practicing ninjutsu than the cartoon Turtles, but not much."
-----------
No, ninjutsu is not just 'the art of invisibility'. Ninjutsu (or ninpo as it is known in its higher order) is the art of persevering and enduring both phsyically and psychologically no matter the odds. It was developed by a specific culture in ancient Japan, with a specific approach to life. This involves methods of self-protection and methods of spiritual development. According to Dr. Hatsumi, the world's only ninjutsu grandmaster still living, the primary responsibility of the ninja was spiritual refinement and development by whatever means. The seconday responsibility was the empty-handed training of taijutsu. The use of weapons and 'invisibility' is way on down the list, but it is not 'essential' by any standard.

So, yes, 'strictly speaking' ninjutsu has ALWAYS involved the perfection of taijutsu body dynamics as the core of the art.

For your information, authentic ninjutsu has not been involved in 'illegal activities' in other 300 years.

Oh, by the way, the Mirage Turtles did a MUCH better job of presenting actual ninjutsu than the other incarnations.
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"While I've never had any formal training, I'm studying the art of ninjutsu. I tend to focus more on the mental and philosophical than the physical martial arts aspects.

Pick up a book. I've got Masaaki Hatsumi's Ninjutsu History and Tradition (which is has good info but it's not much of a learning guide) and have read several of Stephen Hayes' books."
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Its good to know someone here actually knows what im talking about. I have read much from Hatsumi and Hayes, as well. I would like to talk a little more about it with you later.

[Kali]

Hollywood has done a real number on ninjas haven't they? Oh well, they're just playing on the rumors and legands that the ninjas of old circulated themselves to keep people misinformed about them. It was one of those non-confrontation tactics. If you thought a ninja could really disappear into shadows, change into animals, and use magic, would you want to fight one?

[Reznorite420]

Hmmmm...I read somewhere in my old Karate book (a FAQ section) that mentioned ninjas as specially trained military spies of ancient Japan.

[Kali]

Yes, ninja had several purposes over the years. They did once work as the government's private army of sorts. But now a days they don't deal with that sort of stuff.

[speedracer]

Well, no ninja master am I, but...

Who is this Dr. Hatsumi? Why is he the exclusive authority on ninjutsu?

I freely admit that much (all?) of what I know about ninjutsu was gleaned from Dungeons and Dragons. Of course they could be wrong, but anyone who has ever taken more than a passing interest in D&D knows that the D&D writers do a *lot* of research into their subjects.

[Nturtle]

I have a bit of martial arts experience, nothing formal though I am also very good at stupid matrix poses but thats about it :D

[heretic888]

"Hollywood has done a real number on ninjas haven't they? Oh well, they're just playing on the rumors and legands that the ninjas of old circulated themselves to keep people misinformed about them. It was one of those non-confrontation tactics. If you thought a ninja could really disappear into shadows, change into animals, and use magic, would you want to fight one?"
--------
Yes, the ninja of centuries ago DID proliferate those 'myths' (although a few of them are more fact than fiction) to give them a needed psychological edge over their vastly overpowering oppressors (the samurai). But it is no longer forbidden to practice ninpo or follow the ninja's approach to spirituality. Thus, the continued proliferation of these myths is simply a result of ignorance considering there is plenty of AUTHENTIC information available in books by Masaaki Hatsumi, Stephen Hayes, Jack Hoban, Charles Daniel, and Glenn Morris (look them up if you're interested).
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"Hmmmm...I read somewhere in my old Karate book (a FAQ section) that mentioned ninjas as specially trained military spies of ancient Japan."
----------------
Although there is SOME truth in that statement, you should (as a general rule) discount most things that conventional, mainstream martial artists say about ninja and ninjutsu. Many see ninpo as a threat to their 'traditional' styles.
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"Yes, ninja had several purposes over the years. They did once work as the government's private army of sorts. But now a days they don't deal with that sort of stuff."
----------------
I think I should point out that the ninja's only real 'purpose' in ancient Japan was to ensure peaceful order and harmony (not only for their families but for the entire nation as a whole) by the most effective means possible. This is not political order, but rather what might be called 'spiritual' order.

The ninja would do whatever was necessary to secure the peace and freedom of the nation, and this did occasionally include 'secret police' work. But, do not mistake the ninja for the KGB or anything like that. The ninja families (on the whole) had no desire for power or conquest, and were motivated primarily out of compassion (resulting from deep practices of mysticism) for the suffering of others.

However, I must reiterate that the ninja's primary role was a gatherer of intelligence and advisor to the political powers in ancient Japan. They would ONLY in completely desperate times actually involve themselves in direct physical violence. The ninja sought to secure the people's freedom and security through covertly supporting a relatively just and benevolent daimyo (regional lord) through their espionage and reconaissance skills. Their combat system was designed as a means of defense in case an undercover agent was ever discovered in order to escape..... not as a means of winning wars. Assassination was only used in complete and utter desperation as a last resort. The ninja would seek to 'dissuade' hostile forces through indirect means first.
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"Well, no ninja master am I, but...

Who is this Dr. Hatsumi? Why is he the exclusive authority on ninjutsu?

I freely admit that much (all?) of what I know about ninjutsu was gleaned from Dungeons and Dragons. Of course they could be wrong, but anyone who has ever taken more than a passing interest in D&D knows that the D&D writers do a *lot* of research into their subjects."
-----------------
Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi is the ONLY living grandmaster of ninjutsu. That is, he is the ONLY headmaster of authentic ninjutsu traditions that is still alive. His authority on the subject is indisputable. He is really the only scholar with an 'insider's' view about the ninja. Most conventinal accounts of ninpo are seen from the samurai's point of view.

As for Dungeons and Dragons, I have looked over what is said about ninja in Oriental Adventures, Rokugan, and The Way of Ninja. I can assure you that D&D is one of the most INACCURATE accounts of ninja and ninjutsu ever done by an rpg system. The REAL ninja have far more in common with the Monk class in D&D than they ever would with the Ninja class. If you want an accurate rpg account of ninpo, i would suggest Sengoku and its supplement Shinobi: Shadows of Nihon.
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laterz.

[HorseTechie]

Damn.. I'm learning all kinds of things today. About what was fact or fiction with the Renaisance painters... where 'cowabunga' came from, and what ninjustu really is. :D

I will admit most of my martial arts affiliations came from the TMNT. But I think the overall interest in things Asian started after seeing the Karate Kid series. Yeah.. sad but true... Mr. Miyagi affected me that much! :lol:

I started out taking Tae Kwon Do... and frankly, I decided that school I went to was the best. I practiced at a couple of smaller Japaense karate schools in college, but it didn't teach me as much as the Tae Kwon Do did. But alas, I ran out of time and money to commit to that after. I'm content just studying the asian culture, language, and history now. My Korean husband has helped in clearing up many of my other American misconceptions too.

[heretic888]

yah learn somethin new everyday. :D

[Kameko]

Eesh, this thread is giving me a headache... :dead:

[heretic888]

yup. :dead:

[HorseTechie]

But.. I LIKE headaches! :P It's a sign my brain muscles are working out and hopefully getting smarter. Yeeeah...

[Raphaella]

Wow, that lot was really interesting guys, where'd you hear i?! Lol, I hav to say I was interested in Karate a while bak (and kickboxing a lot more), but I think TMNT has boosted my ambitions to just gerrout there and do it!

[HorseTechie]

*is suddenly spawning new ideas for fanfics regarding the true identity of one who studies ninjutsu*

[speedracer]

Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi is the ONLY living grandmaster of ninjutsu. That is, he is the ONLY headmaster of authentic ninjutsu traditions that is still alive. His authority on the subject is indisputable. He is really the only scholar with an 'insider's' view about the ninja. Most conventinal accounts of ninpo are seen from the samurai's point of view.

As for Dungeons and Dragons, I have looked over what is said about ninja in Oriental Adventures, Rokugan, and The Way of Ninja. I can assure you that D&D is one of the most INACCURATE accounts of ninja and ninjutsu ever done by an rpg system. The REAL ninja have far more in common with the Monk class in D&D than they ever would with the Ninja class. If you want an accurate rpg account of ninpo, i would suggest Sengoku and its supplement Shinobi: Shadows of Nihon.


OK.

But what do you mean when you say "authentic ninjutsu traditions"? I'm thinking that you mean the art of ninjutsu as originally practiced by the clan or society that invented it.

What I am now asking is, did there ever exist a class of people who devoted themselves mostly to the arts of stealth, spying, assassination, etc. that are commonly associated with ninjas today?

If so, then you are probably correct when you give your description of "authentic ninjutsu traditions", but it would be somewhat akin to calling Dr. James Naismith's basketball "authentic basketball."

[Kali]

The thing is, ninjutsu has become like every other group. The principles have been around for about 800 years or so, and the practice has evolved and adapted over the centuries.

And like any human group, there are several ninjutsu groups and traditions, every one thinking they are the "true path." I've never trusted people who say they use information from just one source because that makes them biased towards that source, and it usually leads to narrow mindedness.

Some people did use ninjutsu techniques to become spies and assassins. The techniques themselves are merely tools, and as such, can be misused, like anything.

[heretic888]

"*is suddenly spawning new ideas for fanfics regarding the true identity of one who studies ninjutsu*"
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good luck there. email me or pm me if you want some help. :P
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"But what do you mean when you say 'authentic ninjutsu traditions'? I'm thinking that you mean the art of ninjutsu as originally practiced by the clan or society that invented it.

What I am now asking is, did there ever exist a class of people who devoted themselves mostly to the arts of stealth, spying, assassination, etc. that are commonly associated with ninjas today?

If so, then you are probably correct when you give your description of 'authentic ninjutsu traditions', but it would be somewhat akin to calling Dr. James Naismith's basketball 'authentic basketball.'"
------------
When I say 'authentic ninjutsu traditions' i am referring to a martial arts lineage that can be historically traced back to the Japanese counterculture and subsociety history later decided to label 'ninja'. The 'ninja counterculture' had a specific approach to handling life's challenges, a specific system of martial arts principles and concepts, and a specific life philosophy. They were indeed a unique and distinctive martial culture. Any true ninjutsu system would naturally inherit the ninja's unique martial arts principles. The actual applications and manifestations of these principles and concepts may differ from time to time and from school to school, but the core principles and philosophies are universal to the ninja arts.

No, at no point in their history did the ninja ever devote themselves primarily to the so-called 'dark side' of the martial arts. Although they most certainly did study and train in the disciplines you mentioned, that was never their primary focus. The two most primary studies in ninpo have always been spiritual refinement and empty-handed combat (according to Dr. Hatsumi anyway). That is the way it was in the past, and that is the way it is now.
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"The thing is, ninjutsu has become like every other group. The principles have been around for about 800 years or so, and the practice has evolved and adapted over the centuries.

And like any human group, there are several ninjutsu groups and traditions, every one thinking they are the "true path." I've never trusted people who say they use information from just one source because that makes them biased towards that source, and it usually leads to narrow mindedness.

Some people did use ninjutsu techniques to become spies and assassins. The techniques themselves are merely tools, and as such, can be misused, like anything."
---------------
It is true that the specific practices and applications of the ninja martial principles and concepts have evolved and adapted over time, but the core principles and philosophies and 'essense' or 'feeling' themselves have remained universal and timeless.

Correction: there HAVE been several ninjutsu groups and traditions. The vast majority of them have died out, however. Hatsumi's Bujinkan tradition believes they are the 'true path' (regarding ninpo anyway) because they are the ONLY 'ninjutsu school' that can trace themselves historically back to the ninja martial culture. Some martial schools have preserved bits and pieces of the ninja arts, but only Dr. Hatsumi has inherited complete ninjutsu systems and understand the complete 'feeling' and 'essence' embodying the ninja warrior. I must add that the vast majority of 'ninja schools' that have popped up in the West over the past 20 years are (about 90%) completely fake. They were simply capitalizing on the 'ninja boom' of the 80's.

At times, the ninja DID use their art for assassination and the like. They did whatever was necessary to preserve their family's safety and ensure the nation's welfare. It is true the techniques have been misused by unscrupulous individuals, but such people did not have the blessing of ninjutsu masters and were acting in complete contradiction to the ninja's philosophy of life. No ninjutsu family would ever call such men 'one of their own'.

laterz.

[heretic888]

I remember this. This was one of my first threads when I became a member here. Good times, good times.....

anyways, I feel like talking ninjutsu again. So let the good times roll!! :D

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

The thing is, ninjutsu has become like every other group. The principles have been around for about 800 years or so, and the practice has evolved and adapted over the centuries.

And like any human group, there are several ninjutsu groups and traditions, every one thinking they are the "true path." I've never trusted people who say they use information from just one source because that makes them biased towards that source, and it usually leads to narrow mindedness.
.
I agree, and I've found that people who only study one Style of Martial Arts tend to be very arrogant about it, and keep a closed mind to techniques outside their style.

[heretic888]

Its kind of weird though. In the Bujinkan anyways, 'ninjutsu' (or rather, budo taijutsu) consists of at least nine different traditional schools. So, the people studying that system learn from many different schools of thought. And, the Bujinkan itself is a very informal and diverse organization, with many different kinds of teachers and approaches.

Still, I know where you are coming from with the close-minded thing....

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Have you ever tried to discuss technique with someone who's only studied one Martial art?
It's a pain. They constanly correct you.

*Note* These are generalizations, Of course individual people vary.

[heretic888]

Yes, I know what you mean.

I am happy that kind of thinking is generally avoided in the Bujinkan, due to the diversity and informality of the organization.

[SavantiRomero]

Hmm my martial art history.

I've studied only Korean martial arts.

Tae Kwon Do (way or art of hand and foot fighting)
Hap Ki Do (way or art of circular motion)
Kum Do (way or art of the sword)

I started with Tae Kwon Do back in 1991. Took a short break in 1996 for Basic Training, started back up in 1997. In 1998 I began assistant teaching after achieving my 1st Dan. I assisted with all three classes M,W,F and even helped with the childrens classes (daycare). The instructor started a kickboxing class to get more people in the community involved and I helped assistant teach that as well.

I started Hap Ki Do as well and mad it up to a red belt (just before recieving your recommended 1st dan black belt). We did some knife, baton, staff and nunchuku practice in the advanced class.

In 2000 the instructor introduced his assistant instructors to Kum Do. Primarily so we can assist him with training partners.

In 2001 I stopped going to class due to work and school. I practiced a few times a week and did some work out proceedures on the weekends.

In 2002 I went back to class again. But not long. I had been told of my mobalization and knew I wouldn't be able to stay. I intend to restart classes as soon as I get back to the states.

I Got into the martial arts after I was exposed to the TMNT, but not primarily becuase of them. They did help me to continue though. But one thing you learn, and learn well, if you are a true student of any art, is that ALL martial arts are a way of life. Students who fail to grasp this concept fail, even if they achieve high rankings. ALL martial arts are spiritual, harmonizing the body mind and spirit as one.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I've once attended a school that teaches Taekwondo, judo, and Hapkido. I really didn't do so well. :embarass:
I'm much better when I train on my own, and this was during a confusing time in my life.
Taekwondo was always my father's favorite Martial Art so I had to try it though.

[CookSux]

Well being a of korean decent, it was natural that I went into TaeKwonDo... but that was years ago. I trained myself to a level where i'm "this" close to making my own hadoken.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

You should try "Combat Ki" style Karate, for that.

[Caliosidhe]

The Ninja Turtles really did inspire to get into Martial Arts to a degree.. but even before they became mainstream, I'd glue my face to the front of every martial art school I came across. It could be that the martial arts were soemthing that made the turtles appeal just a bit more to me :)

I studied TaeKwonDo for several years and did a whole lot of competition concerning that. Then I had to leave that school a few years ago and am 'still' lookin for something to match it. Haven't anything as good yet. But right after I left I signed up with another school that had an integrated system and was focused entirely on self defense. And took elements from Hap Ki Do, Aikido, Tang so do. I got my black belt in that..and then moved to New york. Where I trained for a few months with a former olympic coach.. until travel times and costs became a bit too much. (And the school STILL wasn't as nice as my first one)

Now I'm looking for another school yet again because I've decided I miss it too much.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I got into the TMNT because they were Ninjas not the other way around.

[heretic888]

Not me. The major (but not the only) reason I got into martial arts in general and ninjutsu in particular is because of the TMNT.