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-   -   Did the dialogue get worse over time? (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=59845)

neatoman 04-13-2018 05:01 PM

Did the dialogue get worse over time?
 
So I got the DVDs for Season 4 and marathoned through them. Here's the thing, I noticed that a lot of the dialogue didn't seem to make much sense. Seemed like the characters just said things because they would seem dramatic, but ended up feeling cliché and a little out of place.

Here's an example from The War for Dimension X:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The War for Dimension X
-They have fought the Kraang and are worthy of your help.

-The Utrom are already aware of the Turtles and all of the good they have done for the planet Earth.

-So why didn't ya help us before?

-Because Earthlings cannot always be trusted! You are an irrational species. Still, you should know the truth about the Utrom.

Never mind how Rook seemingly thought of the Turtles as humans, did anything else about this make sense? The council say they are aware of all the good they've done, yet say they haven't helped out before (keep in mind that Bishop's intrusion technically hadn't happened yet) because they didn't feel they could be trusted. Then for some reason, they decide to segway into the origin of the Kraang, which nobody asked to know about. (And the following origin story is the reverse of what Bishop claimed in the season 3 finale, but that's a different type of flaw in the writing). The episode provide plenty examples of what I'm talking about, it's just that I noticed that one in particular as weird.

The point is that I didn't really notice as much awkward dialogue in the earlier seasons, which makes me wonder if it got worse with time?

FredWolfLeonardo 04-13-2018 08:01 PM

I don't think the dialogue got worse, that's just how the Utroms speak, despite their English being better than the Kraang.

Do you mean the dialogue of the show's later seasons as a whole, or just the way the Utroms speak?

Powder 04-13-2018 08:59 PM

All I know is I could've done without Casey & Kraang Sub-prime saying "Awesome" so much.

IndigoErth 04-13-2018 09:53 PM

And Mikey's scream... (Collecting his screams together and putting them in an infinite audio loop could be a valid tool of torture.)



I never really paid much attention to that with the dialogue to be honest. But I can see what you're saying, that maybe some of it could have a little more substance to make it actually mean something more, rather then the writing only trying to sound cool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neatoman (Post 1755703)
Never mind how Rook seemingly thought of the Turtles as humans

How so? I just figured that as alien beings not form Earth they just lump all Earthlings (mutant Turtle people, humans, and other creatures alike) together as a wider 'species' label as far as the universe is concerned. And also their source of hesitation to help the Turtles, still maybe not entirely trusting them, despite the good they've seen. They'd have surely seen plenty of good out of humans, too, but only to see people turn around and do plenty of bad, too; and the TMNT to them probably still appear quite human in many ways.

FredWolfLeonardo 04-13-2018 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndigoErth (Post 1755730)
And Mikey's scream... (Collecting his screams together and putting them in an infinite audio loop could be a valid tool of torture).

Don't give the U.S government ideas :lol:

neatoman 04-14-2018 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo (Post 1755722)

Do you mean the dialogue of the show's later seasons as a whole, or just the way the Utroms speak?

As a whole. Another example would be when Karai finds out Shredder has mutated.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Karai
You you've become everything you loathe. Everything you hate. A mutant!

These sorts of lines seem to have been written with the intention of sounding good on their own, but make very little sense (if any) in context. This one would have worked if Shredder had actually shown anti-mutant sentiment before. He didn't, in fact, his whole inner circle consisted of mutants midway through season 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndigoErth (Post 1755730)
And Mikey's scream... (Collecting his screams together and putting them in an infinite audio loop could be a valid tool of torture.)

I wouldn't go that far but Greg Cipes can't pull off a dramatic scream to save his life... Or a funny scream... Or a scream of terror... Or even a convincing scream of any kind.

newfan 04-14-2018 05:42 AM

I didn't have a problem with that line, though Shredder never said "I hate Mutants" I didn't think he liked them, (though I thought there was a little more respect for Tigerclaw) even if he did use them for his advantage . I think he found the turtles repulsive but can't remember exact the words he used.

Aaronardo 04-14-2018 11:05 AM

Yes.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Owari
You killed him! He was your brother, and you killed him! He was your brother, Saki, your best friend! How could you do that? Hyah!

Also see my sig.

neatoman 04-14-2018 11:16 AM

Oh... Yeah, that's another good example of this.

JH24 04-15-2018 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaronardo (Post 1755767)
Yes.

You killed him! He was your brother, and you killed him! He was your brother, Saki, your best friend! How could you do that? Hyah!

Also see my sig.

I think I understand what you mean, but personally I liked that quote in the finale. I only wish that scene - and Shredder's momentary doubt and hesitation - had been longer, just to create a bit more emotional depth to everything that had happened, and as a way to emphasize that choices do have consequences.

Without any real build up, that quote felt forced in a way. It's not that Leo had shown an intention of saving Shredder before. So why trying to appeal to his conscience now?

Andrew NDB 04-15-2018 05:40 AM

Dialogue is one of the Nick TMNT show's very strongest suits, in my opinion. Over the others.

newfan 04-15-2018 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JH24 (Post 1755851)
I think I understand what you mean, but personally I liked that quote in the finale. I only wish that scene - and Shredder's momentary doubt and hesitation - had been longer, just to create a bit more emotional depth to everything that had happened, and as a way to emphasize that choices do have consequences.

Without any real build up, that quote felt forced in a way. It's not that Leo had shown an intention of saving Shredder before. So why trying to appeal to his conscience now?

Though they were at the point where Shredder had to be gone, Leo likely was just saying what he was feeling, he was grieving and couldn't understand why Shredder would do that and feel nothing. I got why he was letting up, the 'hiyah' at the end, yeah.. but...kids show..
I wish I'd been on here a little sooner so far as talking about this show goes but I managed to catch the end at least.

JH24 04-15-2018 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newfan (Post 1755863)
Though they were at the point where Shredder had to be gone, Leo likely was just saying what he was feeling, he was grieving and couldn't understand why Shredder would do that and feel nothing. I got why he was letting up, the 'hiyah' at the end...kids show..
I wish I'd been on here a little sooner so far as talking about this show goes but I managed to catch the end at least.

I just realized I had never looked at that scene from that angle, I never realized it was more about Leo dealing with his emotions and grief.

Thanks for the insight, newfan. I just learned something new. Heh, it actually makes me want to re-watch the finale again.

newfan 04-15-2018 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JH24 (Post 1755865)
I just realized I had never looked at that scene from that angle, I never realized it was more about Leo dealing with his emotions and grief.

Thanks for the insight, newfan. I just learned something new. Heh, it actually makes me want to re-watch the finale again.

Just they way I viewed it, may not have been meant that way :)

Aaronardo 04-15-2018 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newfan (Post 1755863)
Though they were at the point where Shredder had to be gone, Leo likely was just saying what he was feeling, he was grieving and couldn't understand why Shredder would do that and feel nothing.

That was the point. Though it doesn't help the line's case that it feels horribly stilted and fake (like much of the dialogue from seasons 3-5) just by how it's constructed. "You killed him! He was your brother! You killed him! He was your brother!" is just repetitive and is not something Leo would say. I could see it working without the repetition but it sounds ridiculous as is.

Also doesn't help that Seth Green's delivery of "How could you do that?" almost sounds deliberately tongue-in-cheek in the most climatic moment of the show. I don't blame him, though, given that kind of dialogue, it's hard for most actors to make it sound good.

neatoman 04-15-2018 11:08 AM

It might also be worth pointing out that the "How could you kill your brother?" line happens to be in the same exact episode as this one:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishface
Welcome, tartarugas. I will slap you like a salamander! I will fin you like a flounder! I will give you bass to mouth!


newfan 04-15-2018 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaronardo (Post 1755875)
That was the point. Though it doesn't help the line's case that it feels horribly stilted and fake (like much of the dialogue from seasons 3-5) just by how it's constructed. "You killed him! He was your brother! You killed him! He was your brother!" is just repetitive and is not something Leo would say. I could see it working without the repetition but it sounds ridiculous as is.

Also doesn't help that Seth Green's delivery of "How could you do that?" almost sounds deliberately tongue-in-cheek in the most climatic moment of the show. I don't blame him, though, given that kind of dialogue, it's hard for most actors to make it sound good.

Just re-watched Owari :) I misread 'hyah' as 'Hiyah' when commenting on that in my other post, so dropping my comment on that. As for the repetition, placing an emphasis on what Shredder had done, also that can happen when someone is trying to take something in that they are shocked or overwhelmed with. (though Shredders desire to kill Splinter wasn't a new thing) I can accept that as grief talk but can agree they could have dropped one of the 'he was your brother' lines.

Not depending the fish face lines pointed out above :)


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