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-   -   Did Kavanaugh do it? (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=60525)

Andrew NDB 09-29-2018 05:16 PM

Did Kavanaugh do it?
 
Without getting political, speaking strictly about the act he allegedly did when he was 17... do you think he did it?

Secondly... how much do you remember about when you were 17? I couldn't even tell you who my teachers were.

BartAllen 09-29-2018 05:44 PM

I find the timing of the accusation suspect.
That said, I do tend to believe that this woman did live through something. I'm just not sure she is correct in her recollection.

I'm reminded of the innocence project and how many men it freed based on DNA evidence. Each of those men's accusers were also certain that the right man was behind bars. They were wrong. I have a suspicion that's the same situation here.

That third accuser has made similar accusations in the past and she was shown to be lying at that time.

The second accuser apparently just saw him flashing a crowd. Big deal.

So what are we left with? One person making a claim another making another. There is no actual evidence backing up Ford's claims, and while I believe her I can't trust her entirely because she is being used as a pawn in this entire situation.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy 09-29-2018 05:51 PM

I hit "probably not" before I saw "this whole thing is dumb." Those both cover my thoughts on the matter.

I mean, come on. We've got a sitting President in office with much more credible witnesses, history, and testimonies of sexual chicanery and misdeeds, so we've got a perfect comparison for Kavanaugh.

Dems just don't want the dude on the bench.

wpugh2424 09-29-2018 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy (Post 1778232)
I hit "probably not" before I saw "this whole thing is dumb." Those both cover my thoughts on the matter.

I mean, come on. We've got a sitting President in office with much more credible witnesses, history, and testimonies of sexual chicanery and misdeeds, so we've got a perfect comparison for Kavanaugh.

Dems just don't want the dude on the bench.

I agree with u

Redeemer 09-29-2018 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy (Post 1778232)
I hit "probably not" before I saw "this whole thing is dumb." Those both cover my thoughts on the matter.

I mean, come on. We've got a sitting President in office with much more credible witnesses, history, and testimonies of sexual chicanery and misdeeds, so we've got a perfect comparison for Kavanaugh.

Dems just don't want the dude on the bench.

The sitting president? What about the past president Clinton who actually sexually harassed an intern to the point of having an affair with the intern.... Talk about calling the kettle black :lol:

IndigoErth 09-29-2018 09:05 PM

Sadly, the right answer is not an option: No idea.

Either way though he certainly isn't coming across as anyone dignified enough for the lifelong position they want to vote him into.

PApagreg 09-29-2018 09:08 PM

Umm should't this be a political thread or at least in the sexual harassment thread.

Autbot_Benz 09-29-2018 09:27 PM

After seeing his little temper tantrum when being interviewed by the senate Id say yes. Not to mention Trump Is jerry rigging the fbi Investigation so it favors Kavanaugh. Imagine him having that big of a tantrum when he is piss drunk.

Andrew NDB 09-29-2018 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PApagreg (Post 1778240)
Umm should't this be a political thread or at least in the sexual harassment thread.

It is neither of those things, so no.

Leo656 09-30-2018 12:03 AM

A lot of people say that his "outburst" is "proof" of guilt, but I know damn well that's exactly how I'd react if I were falsely accused of the very thing he's accused of. These things aren't trivial accusations.

Of course, it very well could be that he's lashing out because he's guilty. We don't know. I just know if I were in his position, and I didn't do it, I'd personally spare no expense to see those who've falsely accused me be punished for trying to ruin my life. But then, I'm more than a little vindictive. Anyway, I understand his position.

I also know women who've been raped or otherwise assaulted, so I totally understand why most don't come forward, etc. etc. I'm not insensitive to their plight. Coming forward is still the right thing to do, though, even on the 1% chance you can stop the person who hurt you from hurting someone else. I know "It's hard", but doing the right thing is always harder than doing the opposite. A lot of these cases could have been more cut-and-dry if the accusers didn't wait 30-odd years to say something, and THEN only said something because the person they're accusing is suddenly notorious. They HAVE to be aware of how questionable that makes them, and their accusations, look.

Then you have people like Juanita Broaddrick, who WAS making the same accusations for decades, but was completely and repeatedly dismissed, despite lots of evidence, because... well, because people REALLY wanted to like Bill Clinton, even though he's pretty much definitely a violent rapist. We all know there were many others making these accusations against him and they haven't gone away. If even HALF the stories about Slick Willy are true, then he's far worse than Kavanaugh's accused of being. For the longest time, nobody cared at all. Everything from "Well, they all do stuff like that" to "The women probably loved it, he's charming." Pretty gross stuff.

So in one case, a guy was repeatedly accused WITH evidence, and people ignored or dismissed it because they found him charming and liked his politics. In this case, a guy is repeatedly accused with little-to-no evidence, yet a lot of people immediately assume that he's guilty because he's politically Conservative and "all victims should be believed". It's interesting.

I think definitely all people who claim to be victims of rape or assault should be HEARD. Not immediately believed just by showing up, because people lie, or get their facts from many years ago wrong, as others have stated. False accusations ruin lives, so all evidence must be weighted very carefully before anyone rushes to judgment.

In this case, I'm inclined to believe something happened to her but probably not who and how she's remembering it, and the timing of her coming forward is EXTREMELY suspect. This guy didn't show up yesterday, and she could have come forward at any point over the last two decades to try and keep him from working his way up the ladder. Only NOW, on the eve of the whole Supreme Court deal, she's finally ready to say something? Not when he was up for any one of the countless positions he's had in the interim? Timing is everything, and this just doesn't feel right.

If it somehow comes out that he's guilty, by all means nail him to the wall. But there's a reason why the initial reaction to any kind of He Said/She Said dispute without any evidence is skepticism. Like, it's good that women finally find their courage, even if it takes many years, but... what do you expect anyone to do NOW, exactly? These things need to be treated urgently when they're fresh, no matter how difficult it may be. Staying silent because "nobody would believe you" is still enabling the abuser, and it only makes people believe you even less later on.

I'unno. Personally, I think he didn't do it, but it would be great to know for sure because if he did do it, by no means should he hold the position. Without any proof, though, it's just a big stall tactic. We can't fall into the habit of demonizing people based on "They're guilty because I said so", no matter how horrific the accusations.

I voted "Probably not", because I don't think this situation is dumb. It's theater, but kind of important to where we are right now culturally, with victims of abuse coming forward with their stories, etc. We're still struggling as a group with where we fall between empathy for those who claim to be victims of abuse, and sorting through facts and evidence to see actual justice done. So no, not "dumb"; rather, very much a display of where we're at right now. It's important, even if a person generally doesn't care about politics. None of these issues are going away.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy 09-30-2018 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redeemer (Post 1778238)
The sitting president? What about the past president Clinton who actually sexually harassed an intern to the point of having an affair with the intern.... Talk about calling the kettle black :lol:

1). I'd think the president in office who appointed the mam would be a far more compelling comparison than a president from the 90's, but if you're so triggered that you have to respond by deflecting to Billy Boy Clinton who hasn't been politically relevant in years, sure pal. You do you.

2). Those allegations ALSO were far more reputable, with factual specific evidence and accounts, collaborating witnesses, and far more easily proven. Or, for a THIRD more compelling comparison, Harvey Weinstein! Not even a President or a player in politics at all, so my choice of him as an example won't offend anybody!

Andrew NDB 10-01-2018 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz (Post 1778242)
Not to mention Trump Is jerry rigging the fbi Investigation so it favors Kavanaugh.

That was a FAKE narrative from the left. They have total autonomy to investigate Kavanaugh and can speak to whoever they want.

MsMarvelDuckie 10-01-2018 10:28 PM

Exceot that he keeps firing everyone in the organization who is even remotely "against" him. Kind of blows your argument out of the water.

Also, for some truly eye-opening info, read Unhinged. Even just skimming through it gave me some real pause regarding both T-rump and anyone he chooses to hire.

Andrew NDB 10-01-2018 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie (Post 1778488)
Exceot that he keeps firing everyone in the organization who is even remotely "against" him. Kind of blows your argument out of the water.

Name one FBI official he's fired since this 7th FBI investigation of Kavanaugh began. Or does your argument hinge on... FBI agents being afraid of being fired, so maybe they will misreport? Nonsense.

MsMarvelDuckie 10-02-2018 05:32 AM

Well I guess it depends. How many FBI directors and staff has he gone through since the election? Not so much with Kavanaugh, but with Russia, the porn star scaandal, and everything else. Granted they were not all "fired" per se, but being forced to resign amounts to the same thing. And yes, fear of consequences to their own jobs has a lot to do with it. When his inner circle has threatened individuals with ruin of careers, prosecution, and worse, one has to wonder how accurate such an investigation will be.

Sumac 10-03-2018 01:05 PM

After reading some of the stuff about this case, it looks like it can be ideological attack on the conservative candidate.

Whether he did or not, I leave it up to judges, but I hope he is not guilty.

IMJ 10-03-2018 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB (Post 1778418)
That was a FAKE narrative from the left. They have total autonomy to investigate Kavanaugh and can speak to whoever they want.

Stuff like this brings out the mouth-breathers in society, man. Just a head's up that when I refer to "you", I don't mean ANDREW. Instead I am illustrating that sort of ubiquitous "you" for whoever reads this.

01) Because someone gets angry, it doesn't mean that they are guilty. To say, think or feel "well now I think he's guilty because of how he got mad" is making a judgement from very poor mental algebra that isn't cogent at all. This is a society's mouth-breather reaction.

02) We now live in a society where someone can simply say something about you, and there will be a population who arbitrarily crucifies the accused. The mental algebra of those people goes "well I don't think it would be said if it wasn't true". This is either ignorance, or they are simply lying as a manipulation. Society's mouth-breather reaction.

03) Subscribing to a simple "did he do it, yes or no" mentality is complete nonsense when it comes to many "crimes" of social justice. For those who subscribe to this zero-grey-area mentality, consider when it will be your turn to field some kind of accusation. Or, for any millenials here, consider a situation where someone cites their "feels" about something you did to them, and you are mired in a social-justice situation where you respond, saying "I didn't do that", yet some other mouth breather responds saying "well [he/she] feels you did...."

This is a complete kangaroo court. In the Doctor's statement, she says publicly:
"I thought he might kill me" -but he didn't-
"I thought he was going to rape me" -buuuuuut he didn't-
"I wanted a second door put on my house" -an example of the good Doctor's maladjustment, probably over a lot more things than a high school "drinking party with boys"-
-20 minutes of her opening statement, of which only about 3 minutes was the "event" and the remainder was smokescreen for the mouthbreathers of society.
"I received death threats". The mouthbreathers hear this and say that Kavanaugh was guilty. They go "awwwwww that's terrible" - and it is terrible. But Kavanaugh didn't issue her death threats. But the mouth-breathers will hear that statement and draw conclusions from it.

For everyone here: we need equality. We need to continue to be good to each other. We need to pursue each other without threat, but also without reciprocating by threat. Guys - don't force yourself on a girl. Girls - don't act so self-important that you exaggerate some guy's actions into something they were not. See? It's simple! But we also need to stop empowering people who respond to life like children. For example, these are the people who cry at jobs when they aren't catered to, make accusations of being wronged far beyond the threshold of truth, look for vengeance because of someone else's success, or most pathetically sabotage someone else because of "hurt feelings".

The culture in the U.S. is coming to a head of mania. It's happened before - it was called "the Salem Witch Trials". And it's been happening again for years now, except that it's a public disgrace on national television right now.

And with the Salem Witch Trial thing in mind, combine that thought with the knowledge that most of the people "you" may talk to for opinions might not have even watched the good Doctor's 18 or so minute opening argument. Another example of social justice - people passing judgement on situations that they know nothing about but yet get on board with.

For the "you" that is the person or people I've just described (deep down, those of you here will know who you are, although you'll never cop to it), I hope I see the day you are accused because of someone's "feels" where others in society who think like you now turn on you - the kangaroo court - and the witch hunt is on your shoulders.

BartAllen 10-04-2018 10:20 AM

Anyone read the signed statement from Ford's ex stating that she has a working knowledge of lie detectors and was coaching a friend on how to 'beat' them? She's full of **** and I don't believe her anymore.

All this #metoo hysteria is going to come back around and no one is going to believe women anymore even when something bad does happen to them.

Andrew NDB 10-04-2018 10:33 AM

Senator Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, said that the report "looks to be a product of an incomplete investigation that was limited perhaps by the White House, I don't know."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...w-info-n916601

Yet the investigation was completed more than a full day early? Weird. Why would the FBI give up the investigation over a day early if there was more to investigate? Sounds like "I'm really angry!"

Everything else I'm seeing says the report failed to corroborate anything Ford was saying.

BartAllen 10-04-2018 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB (Post 1778812)
Senator Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, said that the report "looks to be a product of an incomplete investigation that was limited perhaps by the White House, I don't know."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...w-info-n916601

Yet the investigation was completed more than a full day early? Weird. Why would the FBI give up the investigation over a day early if there was more to investigate? Sounds like "I'm really angry!"

Everything else I'm seeing says the report failed to corroborate anything Ford was saying.

Most of the people she claimed were aware of this have come forward and said they don't remember anything like this happening. She's lying. I really wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, but all of this evidence suggests she's lying.


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