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-   -   FW/Mirage Parallels (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=58622)

Tetsu Deinonychus 08-26-2017 11:16 AM

FW/Mirage Parallels
 
There's always so much talk about how vastly different FW TMNT is from the original Mirage comics.

And, it's true. The 80s show mostly used the comic as loose inspiration rather than attempt a true adaptation. To be fair, the comic had only got to about issue 11 by that point so there wasn't that much Mirage around to adapt yet. They kinda had to come up with their own take on it.

But, that doesn't mean that the two versions had nothing in common aside from the main characters and core concept (which is a lot to have in common no matter how different the rest of it is). So, for challenge and fun let's rack our brains and see what parallels we can find, particularly ones that the other versions don't share.

--Random aliens. Both FW and Mirage had a tendency fall back on the formula "Troublesome alien randomly shows up. Chaos ensues". The other versions don't seem to do this as much, but it's one of the major trademarks, and complaints, of these two versions.

--Splinter and April's Ages. I started a whole thread on this awhile back, but it bears repeating. Mirage and FW both feature a distinctly adult April, and a distinctly elderly Splinter. Since 4Kids, it's become a trend for each version to make them younger than the last, most likely to make Splinter more of a "Dad" and April more of a "peer". But, in Mirage and FW, Splinter was old and April was more of a "cool aunt" than a "sister figure" or "potential girlfriend".

--Pop-Culture Satire. It got away from it awfully fast, but lets not forget that Early Mirage was partially a parody of comics trends of the time (teenagers, mutants, ninja), complete with an origin that spoofs Daredevil.

Likewise, FW spoofed the other cartoons of the time. On GI-Joe and Transformers Cobra and the Decepticons would make some pretty stupid evil plans and take them dead seriously. On FW TMNT Krang and Shredder would come up with plans just as stupid and then turn to the audience and make a joke about it.

Not to mention, all the sci-fi and horror movie references in both versions, though I guess the Nick show does a lot of that too.

--"80's Roughness". Okay this one's kind of intangible, and your milage may vary, but I think the main thing they have in common is that they're both obviously products of the same time-period. And, that imparts a certain aesthetic to them both.

The 4Kids show may have been much closer in characterization and plot, but it's obviously a product of the 2000s with it's clean streamlined art style and digital ink and paint (and how much more modern, Nick's CGI?). Compare that to FW with it's cheap outsourced 80s TV animation and I think you have a stronger parallel to the "rough" look of the early Mirage books when Eastman and Laird were trying to find their groove.

There's also a level of "gross" in the backgrounds with both Mirage and FW. There was grime and detail in those sewers while other versions show the sewers as strangely "clean" (fitting streamlined modern art styles).

Anyway, that what I came up with. Any others?

MsMarvelDuckie 08-26-2017 11:40 AM

How about bizarre concepts as a standard plot device? Mirage had the worm-Shredder, while FW had the pizza monsters and a few others. There were "Utroms" of sorts in both; FW also took the "alien dinosaurs" aka Triceratons- actually they had quite a few of the same alien races- and played with them. There are a lot more similarities than some people admit. Even the fact that Casey is a bit nuts in both versions (okay, a LOT nuts in FW) is a commonality.

neatoman 08-26-2017 11:41 AM

Uhm, well... The Turtles, Splinter, Shredder April, Baxter, the Mousers, Casey, Rat King, Leatherhead, Usagi and the Triceratons are characters in both. There's a character named Metalhead and Krang is more or less an Utrom. #1-7 and Raphael #1 were arguably loosely adapted. While the Neautrinos themselves don't appear to be based on anything in particular, their cars certainly seems to be. The Technodrome does seem like an overhauled version of TCRI (probably more toy friendly). Oh, and the Transmat does appear towards the end.

Beyond some parallels that seem unintentional, that's about it. The only other direct similarity I can see is the "anything can happen" spirit.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CYmM_PdCm3...2/RCO026_w.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ep8oNpjexj...1291924110.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-R7uszXQJMy...c42/RCO007.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/www.adventuresinpo...ter.jpg?w=1200

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan 08-26-2017 11:47 AM

Teleporters and portals are a basic elements of science fiction, and is generally associated with Star Trek.

neatoman 08-26-2017 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan (Post 1709855)
Teleporters and portals are a basic elements of science fiction, and is generally associated with Star Trek.

Take a look at the designs.

CyberCubed 08-26-2017 01:31 PM

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but did the early Mirage issues ever call the ooze, "Mutagen?" From what I remember it was the original cartoon that coined the name "Mutagen" and then Mirage later on adopted that name. It's used frequently especially in the later Tales issues in the 2004 run.

Andrew NDB 08-26-2017 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tetsu Deinonychus (Post 1709845)
And, it's true. The 80s show mostly used the comic as loose inspiration rather than attempt a true adaptation.

I guess so... but FW bears as much resemblance to Mirage TMNT as that "Let's put Billy Crystal and a bunch of 80s comedians in costumes" TMNT 1 movie pitch.

* Mirage: Four Turtles raised by Splinter for the sole purpose of assassinating Oroku Saki. They do so, and murder a ton of Foot in the process. Eventually they break the circle of bloody vengeance and free themselves of it. They also go on intergalactic adventures, travels through time, and more, and do a lot of soul searching in the process. Splinter has a heart attack and dies reaching for the milk. Eventually they all grow apart and die alone.

* Fred Wolf: Four Turtles are raised by Splinter to be heroes (I guess?) for mankind, then occasionally thwart the wacky plans of an interdimensional brain who is Oroku Saki's boss. They never quite succeed. Mostly they putz around randomly encountering scores of goofy mutants, eat a lot of pizza, tell a lot of jokes, and don't have any character arcs or growth at all from the beginning of the show all the way to the end.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan 08-26-2017 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB (Post 1709893)
* Fred Wolf: Four Turtles are raised by Splinter to be heroes (I guess?) for mankind, then occasionally thwart the wacky plans of an interdimensional brain who is Oroku Saki's boss. They never quite succeed. Mostly they putz around randomly encountering scores of goofy mutants, eat a lot of pizza, tell a lot of jokes, and don't have any character arcs or growth at all from the beginning of the show all the way to the end.

Splinter in the MWS series originally trained the turtles to defend themselves, and track down the person responsible for Splinter's mutations and fore that person to turn Splinter back into human again (they had no idea of Oroku Saki being behind at the time).

But later, it became much more to stop Shredder.

snake 08-26-2017 05:18 PM

I think the Pop Culture Parody/Commentary aspect should be capitalized on more. There's some real potential there.

mrmaczaps 08-26-2017 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB (Post 1709893)
I guess so... but FW bears as much resemblance to Mirage TMNT as that "Let's put Billy Crystal and a bunch of 80s comedians in costumes" TMNT 1 movie pitch.

* Mirage: Four Turtles raised by Splinter for the sole purpose of assassinating Oroku Saki. They do so, and murder a ton of Foot in the process. Eventually they break the circle of bloody vengeance and free themselves of it. They also go on intergalactic adventures, travels through time, and more, and do a lot of soul searching in the process. Splinter has a heart attack and dies reaching for the milk. Eventually they all grow apart and die alone.

* Fred Wolf: Four Turtles are raised by Splinter to be heroes (I guess?) for mankind, then occasionally thwart the wacky plans of an interdimensional brain who is Oroku Saki's boss. They never quite succeed. Mostly they putz around randomly encountering scores of goofy mutants, eat a lot of pizza, tell a lot of jokes, and don't have any character arcs or growth at all from the beginning of the show all the way to the end.

Spot on as always.... :lol:

Papenbrook 08-27-2017 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB (Post 1709893)
Splinter has a heart attack and dies reaching for the milk. Eventually they all grow apart and die alone.

Wait, seriously?! :o

Did this happen figuratively or literally?

ToTheNines 08-27-2017 06:53 AM

Yeah... like 15 years ago.

neatoman 08-27-2017 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papenbrook (Post 1709967)
Wait, seriously?! :o

Did this happen figuratively or literally?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9503anPihv...s1600/10-4.png

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan 08-27-2017 12:47 PM

Splinter isn't there in the "Once upon a Time Machine" future, which takes place 35 years later so it makes sense.

DestronMirage22 08-27-2017 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papenbrook (Post 1709967)
Wait, seriously?! :o

Did this happen figuratively or literally?

Yeah, it all happened literally. Splinter's death, the guys separating, and them all dieing alone, it all happend.

You're pretty late to the party dude. :lol:

DisKosh 08-28-2017 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB (Post 1709893)
* Mirage: Four Turtles raised by Splinter for the sole purpose of assassinating Oroku Saki. They do so, and murder a ton of Foot in the process. Eventually they break the circle of bloody vengeance and free themselves of it. They also go on intergalactic adventures, travels through time, and more, and do a lot of soul searching in the process. Splinter has a heart attack and dies reaching for the milk. Eventually they all grow apart and die alone.

I don't recall them growing apart and dying alone? Have I missed something?

Cryomancer 08-28-2017 05:23 AM

It's heavily implied via pretty much any story that takes place in the future.

Powder 08-28-2017 01:26 PM

Hell, to say it was only implied is an understatement. There are issues that arguably feature Leonardo & Donatello's deaths.

Diskosh, this article should give you all the context you need- http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2010/...of-mirage.html

pferreira 08-31-2017 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB (Post 1709893)
* Fred Wolf: Four Turtles are raised by Splinter to be heroes (I guess?) for mankind, then occasionally thwart the wacky plans of an interdimensional brain who is Oroku Saki's boss. They never quite succeed. Mostly they putz around randomly encountering scores of goofy mutants, eat a lot of pizza, tell a lot of jokes, and don't have any character arcs or growth at all from the beginning of the show all the way to the end.

And boy was it fun! :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tetsu Deinonychus (Post 1709845)
To be fair, the comic had only got to about issue 11 by that point so there wasn't that much Mirage around to adapt yet. They kinda had to come up with their own take on it.

Ssshhh, you're not allowed to say stuff like that. David Wise is apparently a hack okay. :lol:

Tetsu Deinonychus 09-09-2017 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pferreira (Post 1710832)
Ssshhh, you're not allowed to say stuff like that. David Wise is apparently a hack okay. :lol:

Not saying he isn't, but hack or not if you're given a comic that has less than 12 issues and features on panel deaths, blood, angst, and adult language, and you are instructed to develop it into an ongoing children's show (by 80s standards where "kid's show" meant "safe" and "dumbed-down") that they can write as many episodes as they want without running out of material, and also has to promote a toy line, you're not exactly going to end up with a direct panel to screen translation.

Still, the differences are not the point of this thread. These forums are bursting at the seams with discussion about how different the two most iconic versions of TMNT are. At this point, it's just redundant (and too easy) to keep talking about it.

The similarities, on the other hand, seem like fresh unexplored territory, and the fact that you really have to look for them (I think) makes them more interesting. Here's a few more...

-"Turtle's Fight/Die With Honor!" This battlecry is featured a lot in both FW and early Mirage (obviously FW didn't use the "Die" variation), but you really don't see it much in other versions.

-A lot of Mirage's "Early Installment Weirdness" became part of FW's design. The FW Turtles seem based more on the way the Turtles looked in the early issues (rounder, shorter, short strands on the bandanas) rather than how their look evolved in later issues (especially when artists like Lawson and Dooney started influencing their look), and of course there's April's jumpsuit that she only wore in one issue that became her iconic look through all of FW (because it reminded Wise of Fujiko somehow). Not to mention Casey's shorter "hockey-mullet" is based on his first Mirage appearance, before they gave him longer hair for all his other Mirage appearances.

-I think that extends to the "Tone" too. Aside from the gory first issue, Mirage didn't get all that "dark" until issue#9 with a return to gritty Martial arts crime/ content, and continued into the Leonardo special when Shredder came back and the feud with the Foot Clan became central to the ongoing plot.

Issue's #2-#8 (especially #8, I'm actually surprised Renet and Savanti never made it onto the show) are noticeably lighter than that, and I think that's where FW got it's initial tone from. Obviously, Mirage can gets a lot more mature than FW, and FW gets a lot sillier than Mirage (unless you count some of the lesser "guest issues"), but I don't think there's that big a gap between the more "serious" episodes of FW and the "lighter" issues of Mirage. Not every FW/Mirage comparison is City At War vs. Mr. Ogg is what I'm saying.


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