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Original TMNT Cartoon Fan 10-17-2017 12:12 PM

Fiction clichés you like and dislike
 
Which fiction clichés do you like and dislike? This applies to any fiction (books, stageplays, films, TV series, musicals, operas or whatever).

I dislike

*In seafaring adventure films, it's always pirates who have hookarms and wooden legs. Why can't it be a seaman from a merchant ship seriously wounded in fight against pirates? Also dislike pirates using ships with broken sails.

*Science fiction:

Spacecraft flying like aeroplanes through outer space.

Spaceflight terms being indentical to water transport (spacecraft called spaceships or ships, spacefleets, space pirates to much based on stereotypical seafaring pirates).

Short distances between minor-planets and planetoids, sometimes called "asteroids", (like Star Wars).

Extraterrestrials in disguise having already been on Earth for a long time, and speed up evolution (don't care if it's just some years like Utroms not doing anything such, worse with all time the Kraang claim to have been on Earth).

Early-humans coexisting with dinosaurs. There are no scientific proof for that.

Wrong animal and nature at wrong place (tigers in African countries, lions in India or penguins in the Arctic and polar bears in Antarctica)

Second World War: Fascists from Germany and Italy escape to the Moon or Mars in a spacecraft

Alternate history: CSA successfully breaks away during the mid-or late-1860's, still in 2017 slaveships cross the oceans (slavery would probably be over by 1880, then just some discrimination like what we saw in the southern USA).

TurtleWA 10-17-2017 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan (Post 1722536)
Which fiction clichés do you like and dislike? This applies to any fiction (books, stageplays, films, TV series, musicals, operas or whatever).

I dislike

*In seafaring adventure films, it's always pirates who have hookarms and wooden legs. Why can't it be a seaman from a merchant ship seriously wounded in fight against pirates? Also dislike pirates using ships with broken sails.

*Science fiction:

Spacecraft flying like aeroplanes through outer space.

Spaceflight terms being indentical to water transport (spacecraft called spaceships or ships, fleets, space pirates to much based on stereotypical seafaring pirates).

Short distances between minor-planets and planetoids.

Extraterrestrials in disguise having already been on Earth for a long time, and speed up evolution (don't care if it's just some years like Utroms not doing anything such, worse with all time the Kraang claim to have been on Earth).

Early-humans coexisting with dinosaurs. There are no scientific proof for that.

Wrong animal and nature at wrong place (tigers in African countries, lions in India or penguins in the Arctic and polar bears in Antarctica)

Second World War: Fascists from Germany and Italy escape to the Moon or Mars in a spacecraft

Alternate history: CSA wins, still in 2017 slaveships cross the oceans (slavery would probably be over by 1880, then just some discrimination like what we saw in the southern USA).

I don't have examples specific to movies or books. But words and phrases in general that are annoying to me. Even if I have used them in the past. So they might apply to your "whatever" category.

Dislike:
-Epic
-Ominous
-Disrupt the market
-When you have lemons, make lemonade
-Transparent
-game changer

Like:
-a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush
-the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence
-wicked good
-cool (it's classic and will always work)

If I think about it I'm sure I could come up with several more in both "like" and "dislike" sections. :trazz:

DestronMirage22 10-17-2017 11:13 PM

I find it a bit annoying when the dark-haired protagonist is oblivious to the fact that he has multiple girls fawning over him. That happens way too often in anime.

Also having an American flag behind someone as they’re doing something heroic.

Utrommaniac 10-18-2017 12:56 AM

It's become a bit of a cliche to call out cliches for me.

Especially where Disney is concerned. And I've realized that a lot of the time, even when there's "Love At First Sight™", they don't really get married right away. We don't know how much time there was between Cinderella marrying her Prince. Or Ariel and Eric getting married. Heck, Cinderella was happy just to have a One Dance Stand with a dude that she found handsome and nice and was good to leave it at that, and was dumbfounded when she learned she was dancing with the Prince.

Though, I can understand Aurora and Phillip getting married pretty quickly since they were already betrothed from the time that they were very tiny.

So, I call bull on the "you can't marry someone you just met, Anna!" situation in Frozen because except for some very few exceptions, it doesn't seem that was something that happened in most Disney films.

However, I do love the "If you start singing, I'm going to throw up" line in Moana :lol: . A Call Out Cliche cliche that I like.

I've expressed in earlier that I really don't like the "goody-goody peaceful species" that comes up in science fiction and fantasy a lot. Specifically, the Neutrinos and Mirage/4Kids Utroms, suffering from the same problem of "non-violence unless in extreme danger". Which was why the Illuminated and South American waste dumping were such a huge relief, and why I am eagerly anticipating King Zenter's great "oh god, what have I done?".

I think having a "peaceful" race could work to some extent. It works pretty darn well with Hobbits now that I think of it, since they're basically clueless to the world outside of the Shire and thus end up cut off from a violent world, where the most bloodshed they'd see would either be from a horrible farming accident or a birth ending badly. Or butchering meat. A bit like how Dodos or penguins were/are so cut off from large land predators that they didn't recognize the danger in the things that would kill them, and wipe them out in the former example.
However, when they're actively being [Nixon Voice]Bleeding Heart Hippies[/Nixon Voice], it gets a little grating. Come on guys, get the skeletons out of the closet and shed your Dark Violent Secrets. You know they're there.

MsMarvelDuckie 10-20-2017 03:54 PM

Cliches I dislike- villains who want to destroy the world/universe for whatever reason. Makes no sense. Any "good" villain would be too much of a narcissist to ever do something that would harm themselves. It only really works for some nihilistic "God is dead and life isn't worth living" type of character, and those are usually just suicidal anyway as opposed to wanting to take out the entire world with them. An extension of this is the "if I can't have her NO ONE can!" villain who tries to kill the object of his lust after being rejected. It is more realistic maybe, but still a bit over the top.

Cliches I do like- heroes having an "evil twin" or duplicate who wants to take their place, never mind the fact that they missed the obvious consequence that by doing so they would reap whatever karma or legal repercussions would ensue from the change in persona. IE, if Evil Kirk had taken over the ship and disposed of his double without being discovered, sooner or later when his crew realized he was drastically different they would have had him locked up and he'd be stuck in a cell the rest of his life. Same goes for any evil doppleganger of superheroes. If they try to ACT like the hero in question, they would either end up literally being them, or would revert to true persona and get busted. But they are so caught up in the IDEA that they never grasp how complicated it would be!

ProactiveMan 10-21-2017 09:34 AM

Witty characters who only succeed at being so because other characters are written to set them up all the time. I could be a regular Quippy Magee if everyone around me kept throwing out feeder lines.

It's much like characters who seem extraordinarily capable because they are surrounded by unreasonable levels of incompetence. The Murder She Wrote phenomenon. You buy that a folksy mystery novelist can solve a murder every week, because she operates in a world devoid of competent law enforcement.

Allio 10-21-2017 09:46 AM

one cliche I like is when a character is much bigger, but when they face something they are scared of they hide behind someone that is considered much more frail.

Ulisa 10-22-2017 11:31 PM

Let's see, for the sake of simplicity, I guess I'll use the TVTropes name or something similar:

Cliches I Dislike--

The Leader is the Best at Everything--Good God, I despise this cliché. Luckily, it seems that shows are edging away from it as I don't see it much any more but it still pops up. A leader doesn't mean you best the rest of your team at their strengths; it means you understand how to use people, command/lead people to use those strengths. Real Life example--George Washington was a horrible tactician but he recognized it so he surrounded himself with people that WERE good tacticians

Blood vs Adopted--Again, I don't see this one too much anymore but it still pops up occasionally. When a blood child is favored over an adopted one, it drives me crazy. Now, is this true for some people? Most likely but it seems more likely it to be the opposite.

The Funny One--I'm not against humor but I am against it being all shoved into one character. That has never made sense to me. It makes a lot more sense for all the characters to share the humor.

Don't Listen to the Kid/Nerd, etc.: Seriously, this would save people so much trouble. It's usually the kid or the nerd or whatever 'outcast' that knows what they're talking about.

Cliches I Like--

Mama Bear/Papa Wolf/Big Brother-Sister Instinct: Basically, the idea that if you mess with someone's family, they are going to make you pay for it. It's especially satisfying to me if it's a relationship that is far from perfect but threats to family still trigger this.

Beware the Quiet Ones: I love this one because usually there is truth to it. Quiet folks usually will take and take abuse because they hate confrontation (though not always) but when pushed far enough, they will snap back. One of my friends summed it up pretty well in a quote she read in a fanfiction a few years ago: "Kindness has its limits. I've finally reached mine."

Pre-Asskicking Oneliner: The cool phrase or line used prior to someone entering a battle. I love it. Probably not realistic but issuing a threat and then following through on it is awesome.

Krutch 10-23-2017 02:21 AM

I've stopped watching TV shows I've liked where the "bad boy moves into town, disrespects everyone in the town except for the female lead, female lead falls for him and calls him "misunderstood" causing all this kind of friction between her and everyone else.

I just hate it so freakin' much.

shuriken 10-26-2017 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krutch (Post 1723488)
I've stopped watching TV shows I've liked where the "bad boy moves into town, disrespects everyone in the town except for the female lead, female lead falls for him and calls him "misunderstood" causing all this kind of friction between her and everyone else.

I just hate it so freakin' much.

you just described Cool as Ice

I hate forced friction between best friends over a woman or a man.

Utrommaniac 10-26-2017 03:56 PM

Oh man, and the worst part of Cool as Ice is that the entire town is right about him!

MsMarvelDuckie 10-27-2017 06:50 PM

Don't forget the "badass fighter who suddenly and for no apparent reason gets his butt handed to him". AKA Worf. Or the Batman's utility belt trope.

CyberCubed 10-27-2017 06:58 PM

Don't you guys realize everything in fiction has already been done? Everything is a cliche these days, but only because there's only so many ways to write a story. Or a characters personality, there's not that many different personality tropes to choose from.

They say, "There are only 10 stories in all of fiction" and I can believe it.

Utrommaniac 10-27-2017 07:09 PM

It's not really a "cliche" but still something that bugs me.

And that's depicting alligators and crocodiles as green. They're gray!
Now, that's probably because green looks better, but for once I'd like to see a dark gray alligator.

Spike Spiegel 10-27-2017 07:10 PM

I don't like "badass" heroes who are pure and awesome with no character flaws or diversity tokens that a placed into stories just to make them PC.

I guess I'm tired of seeing the "Chosen One" trope as well.

Krutch 10-29-2017 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuriken (Post 1724187)
you just described Cool as Ice

True, but Cool as Ice is so darn awful/charming that it gets a pass. It's impossible to take seriously.

Utrommaniac 10-29-2017 05:04 PM

I feel like this era is mostly over...but the whole "I'm so plain and average, but oh, look at this two supernatural boys sparring over me!" YA romance cliche was something that I'm pretty sure got on everyone's nerves. I don't blame Twilight, buuuut...

(Oh man, I don't even want to know what this place was like when Twilight was first booming :lol: . And yet...I'm curious. Like it's a curtain that I shouldn't look behind.)

ProphetofGanja 10-29-2017 05:50 PM

I hate when a character is so upset or anxious that they can't eat. I have never, ever been that worried and I've been through a lot of ****.

Krutch 10-29-2017 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utrommaniac (Post 1724692)
(Oh man, I don't even want to know what this place was like when Twilight was first booming :lol: . And yet...I'm curious. Like it's a curtain that I shouldn't look behind.)

You'd be disappointed. It was basically Twilight free.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProphetofGanja (Post 1724700)
I hate when a character is so upset or anxious that they can't eat. I have never, ever been that worried and I've been through a lot of ****.

For whatever it's worth, it's happened to me. So it's within the realm of possible at least.

Utrommaniac 10-29-2017 08:09 PM

Actually, count me as fascinated. Given the way things are here, I'm surprised the jokes didn't fly. Unless the Dramadrome is a recent phenomenon.

Cliche I do like:

Character A: Oh no, character B is going to be so scared!
Character B: Doing just fine.

Most iconically in Avatar.

Coola Yagami 10-31-2017 01:19 AM

One cliche I like is when there's a danger so big, the good guys and bad guys have to team up to save the world. I like bad guys that are smart enough to realize that if the um.. other bigger badder bad guys win, they'll die too because they live on this planet too. Bonus points if the bad realize they have to let their accursed hero go because if they don't they're basically stopping the only person that can save everything and again, they'd die too.

I do agree with the cliche of the bad guy that wants to destroy the world not realizing he's gonna die too. There was a funny Youtube video where the one of the bad guy's henchmen jumps the gun and kills James Bond with a laser. With him dead they are free to continue with their doomsday laser, and the main villain is now hesitant because he realizes he really will kill all life including himself, but his henchmen keep cheering for him to push the button, since this was all part of the master plan anyway.

Another cliche that bugs me as I get older is the whole 'the guy will always get the girl in the end, no matter what the guy looks like'. Like a random fat slob will somehow make the girl fall for him because he's so sweet and endearing and all that jazz. I guess now that I see the world through different eyes as an adult, I kinda find it funny how the super hot model chick somehow falls for this loser, and she's painted as a bad guy or dumb if she doesn't right away... while I've very rarely seen a movie or show where a muscular dream boat falls for a chubby nerd girl and he's painted as a bad guy or a jerk just because he doesn't fall for her right away.

I don't know. Movie gonna movie, I guess. I also got sick of the cliche or random forced romance during times of crises. Like aliens, zombies, dinosaurs, whatever attack the town, there's still time for random strangers to somehow fall in love during all this insanity and then big hug and kiss at the end. Now it kiiinda makes sense when they people are already in a relationship or were in it before, I mean we have movies where people facing divorce somehow renew the spark and remarry or whatever after surviving oblivion, but random strangers?

Like dude, the big muscular action hero is also a cop/soldier/whatever, so like, he's not saving your life cause he wants you, he's doing his job and would do the same for any other woman.

Plus, I always wonder what happens after these movies. Sure, Mr. Action Man saved your life a few times and helped blow up the bad guy at the end with a witty line, and suddenly you're in love. Now what? Is the hero also good at getting a job, is he a jerk during downtime, is the woman a total bitch or something and hard to live with? How does their story really end?

Sumac 10-31-2017 01:39 AM

I believe there are no bad cliches and plot ideas - there are only bad executions.

CyberCubed 10-31-2017 01:52 AM

I like the fiction cliche when two attractive girls start off as friends and then they start making out and kiss each other for no reason at all.

For some reason this is so common now that I almost half expect it to happen in almost every show I watch now. 80% of the time it usually does.

MsMarvelDuckie 10-31-2017 10:23 AM

Cubed, please stop trolling with your "hot lesbian" fantasies. You seriously need help, man.

Utrommaniac 10-31-2017 01:09 PM

Oh, man...this one just really gets under my skin.

Making nursery rhymes "scary" or adapting them to sound scary. And for some reason, Steven Moffat REALLY has a hard-on for doing that. Which probably degrades it more because it. Just. Kept. Happening. In Doctor Who. No. It's not edgy. It's corny.

Allio 11-06-2017 09:47 AM

I always like the one where "the character that is innocent/looking for innocence is the one that gets curroptef

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan 12-08-2017 03:18 AM

How about "unhappy child with rich parents"?

Prowler 12-08-2017 03:33 AM

Eh dunno really, but the main male and main female character ending up together or crushing on each other is a bit of an annoying cliché. Or a guy falling in love with his female friend and then marrying her. It's as if Hollywood and tv shows are saying men and women can't be friends or work together without wanting to shag each other.

Tbh, I think I prefer how romance is handled in anime/manga, as unrealistic as it is. It's obvious they like each other, but rarely do couples actually get together or kiss in anime/manga in the end.

I don't think every single tv show, cartoon, movie etc. needs romance. At least not for the main characters. TMNT does fine without romance asides from Casey and April, for example.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan 12-08-2017 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowler (Post 1733614)
Casey and April.

I can be even without that.

Prowler 12-08-2017 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan (Post 1733618)
I can be even without that.

Yeah, same. Tbh, I think April could do better than Casey, especially in the 2k3 cartoon. But whatever.

Coola Yagami 12-08-2017 07:10 AM

Yeah, they honestly have no real reason to be together anyway. April and Casey literally are the 'main human female falls for main human male' cliche.

I kinda like how IDW addresses the fact that outside of adventures and knowing the turtles, they both really don't have anything in common. Of course they still want them to be a couple.

Prowler 12-08-2017 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami (Post 1733629)
Yeah, they honestly have no real reason to be together anyway. April and Casey literally are the 'main human female falls for main human male' cliche.

I kinda like how IDW addresses the fact that outside of adventures and knowing the turtles, they both really don't have anything in common. Of course they still want them to be a couple.

FW got it right in not pairing them up together. They even had less in common there.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan 12-08-2017 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowler (Post 1733632)
FW got it right in not pairing them up together. They even had less in common there.

My favourite April O'Neil versions will also be from the first two animated series, Archieverse and films: An ordinary Earth-human who happens to stumble into the adventures of four mutant turtles.

FredWolfLeonardo 12-08-2017 10:57 AM

One of my favourite fiction cliches is having villains be weak yet very intelligent and cunning, it often makes them very interesting and even more dangerous than villains who are pure brutes.

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan 12-08-2017 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo (Post 1733680)
One of my favourite fiction cliches is having villains be weak yet very intelligent and cunning, it often makes them very interesting and even more dangerous than villains who are pure brutes.

Or a duo, where one of them is strong and tough, the other is more intelligent.

PApagreg 12-08-2017 01:19 PM

I always love seeing villains caring about their lackeys, I can see them being tough towards them but they don't treat them like crap. I also like villians coing mundane things like go to a shop to pick a sandwich

Original TMNT Cartoon Fan 12-08-2017 02:15 PM

Most adventure fiction doesn't need much romance.


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