Quote:
Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections
So just for my understanding and clarification on this issue  , how would some of you counter against the right-side making these arguments for Brexit? |
The video is a whole mass of assumptions and cherry picked arguments, much in the same way the Remain camp was as well. Neither campaign was brilliant. For many things, we JUST DON'T KNOW, as they have to be negotiated now following the vote to Leave.
What both sides did was highlight the most obvious headlining grabbing positive or negative sides to their campaign (so for Leave, the supposed £350M a day that could go elsewhere like the NHS, and for Remain, how the economy would be thrown into another recession after analysis from practically all financial leading analysts). The choice really was between better the devil you know (Remain), or the complete uncertainty of what happens post leaving.
See my post on the previous page about the scenario of Texas leaving the Union about some of the things that could happen to us. COULD. I keep repeating, most are yet to be finalised because this is all what happens now once Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is invoked, and you've got up to two years to decide what happens to everything EU related in the country.
Berlusconi had enough scandal that I don't think him remaining in Italy was ever going to happen regardless. The UK has had 92% control over the laws passed in this country, only 8% came through Europe.
Can't argue about not recognising the MEPs. Then again, you ask people here to recognise their local MP, the same would happen. People tend to just vote for the person representing their party, not the person themselves.
Turkey has to pass 32 criteria points on a list to be able to join the EU. They've barely passed 2 so far. Yes, he claims about EU corruption in the video and that's true, but given the UK has a veto vote while being in, I think we'd pay close attention to whether Turkey had really passed all 32 when they apply.
EU migrants have to be in the UK for at least 3 months before they can claim any benefits, so they'd need enough money to last them that long. Can't see that happening with any of the people escaping Syria et al, if they happen to then somehow get a passport in another EU country.
We get roughly half the money back that we pay in via grants and subsidies to various parts of the country (like Wales, amazed they voted out), so while we contribute £350M per week, the actually net total we contribute is more like £160M per week. So if we stop contributing, then theoretically we would STILL have to supply some of our own money to the places getting the EU funding, otherwise THEY'D DIE! So the amount is a misnomer.
And just look at the markets and their value once Remain became clear it had lost. They dropped a lot. Wiped out more value than we'd paid into the EU since we started. We get tariff free access trade to other EU countries, and that adds to the economy MORE than what we pay in. Video doesn't mention that of course. Non-EU companies invest in the UK so they can have better access to markets in the rest of Europe. Plus we can access the best talent in the EU to hire in our companies.
It also doesn't quite affect us as much because we stayed out of the Euro and kept the pound. We're not bound by the currency fortunes. That's why we've not had austerity as bad. If we were Spain, or Portugal, or Greece, or Italy, then leaving would not be very surprising! The governments and population saddled themselves with so much debt in the 1990s once they had access to Euro based loans, it was stupid.
Can't argue too much about the fishing rights, bar the fact that we were overfishing the areas anyhow, EU or no EU control.
Arguing about Switzerland is not bad, but the problem is, a lot of people voted Leave in the UK because of the free movement of EU migrants to the UK. Guess what, that's one aspect Switzerland has to abide by as well for their trade agreements. And they have a greater percentage of EU migrants in the country than we do here.