Season 5 Discussion Thread

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

the entire ending seems basically done out of spite. that, IMHO, makes it null and void.

Yes, Ciro ended the show that way, "out of spite" ....whatever the hell that means.

[Candy Kappa]

Seems odd to end the show with a "alternative Universe" story, but whatever floats your personal headcanon.

[`NightWatcher]

Someone ask Ciro Nieli or Brandon Auman about a possible TMNT 2012 movie in the future. Also, see if they have any info on this report that came out a year ago. Thanks! Any answers would be much appreciated.

http://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/e...nder-woman-77/

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by `NightWatcher

Someone ask Ciro Nieli or Brandon Auman about a possible TMNT 2012 movie in the future. Also, see if they have any info on this report that came out a year ago. Thanks! Any answers would be much appreciated.

http://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/e...nder-woman-77/

Neither one of them would have anything to do with those. Go ask Bruce Timm or James Tucker.

[CyberCubed]

I can see them making a direct to DVD movie at some point. Especially if Ciro said he had a Fugitoid story planned. I wonder if it'll happen prior to the timeskip, or it'll take place after the events of the last episode with Renet/Fugitoid traveling back in time or something like that.

It probably won't happen for a while though, they won't want to take attention away from the new cartoon.

[Cyndaquilfan123]

Originally Posted by asfaloth12

Well, at least you agree that people can have their own interpretations. That's a start.
When the creator contradicts previously established canon, then that's poor writing. Nothing more. And it is perfectly legitimate to treat it as an AU / non-canon. If you are truly bothered by seeing people do that, then I believe there is an "ignore" function on this board that you can use.
Nickelodeon has messed up scheduling in the past, especially with the Season 4 finale. But, this time, they redeemed themselves in a way.

I have not read the Wolves of the Calla yet (that's book 5, right? I only got to Book 4). So, I can't fairly give a full answer to that part. I suspect my answer would be: neither. I would think for myself.


Thanks for the heads up
The thing is: I actually think they did a great job with the vast majority of the series. I know not everybody agrees, and that's fine! It doesn't lessen my enjoyment one bit, just because people may have a different opinion. However, Ciro and the others unfortunately took an enormous stumble here. I'm glad it's not canon.

There were a few times I came close to losing interest, as well, just because the hiatuses were so frustrating. Glad I came back to it, though.
It was interesting with the Space Arc. I enjoyed it much more on DVD, without the hiatuses. Basically I did a semi-binge, would watch one disc on Saturday and one on Sunday, when I wasn't on weekend call, and it flowed so much more smoothly. I ended up really enjoying it. The 2nd half of Season 4 was great, for me as well

Yeah, I don't completely understand Nick's actions here, either. Unless Ciro was just extremely adamant about the arc for some weird reason? Like you, I'm curious as to what went on behind the scenes.



Agreed.

So wait, you’re saying the Finale itself was not canon?

[CyberCubed]

It is canon, and Ciro intends it to be. It's just some people who don't like it want to be an alternate universe type thing.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Cyndaquilfan123

So wait, you’re saying the Finale itself was not canon?

Only in their imagination.

[snake]

TMNT canon. What a world we're living in.

[Chris]

Doesn't really matter if it's the future or a possible future, it's the only one we're going to see. It's the ending that the creative team envisaged.

If you don't like it (and I have to admit I'm not the fondest) then you can discount it from your personal canon and end with Owari (end of the main series), the Kavaxas arc (epilogue to the main series), the crossover arc (final episodes to air) or even the Usagi arc (finale present day production episodes). You can view all the Tales as canon, some of them or none of them. That's completely up to each of us as individuals. But the official end of the show is the future arc and I'm not sure how anyone can argue against that. Our personal canons may be different but that doesn't change the official ending from the creative team.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Why are so many people unhappy with the ending of this show?

Honestly? I think deep down (as in perhaps they do not realize it yet), some of them see that Mutant Apocalypse does a great job at indicating all of the problems that this series had for a good, long while.

Before I go on? If any of you loved it? That's cool. I'd never dream to try to change your mind. I could deal with the first two seasons (well, most of season 2), although I did have some issues. But the third season killed me.

But getting back to my point. What do I mean by "indicating all of the problems that this series had?" (It's dumb that I have to state this, but this is all just My Opinion. Not fact.)

*Caring more about Movie References than Proper story-telling.

In this case, worrying more about Mad Max and such references) and thus becoming more a Gimmick rather than a quote "Proper"...which to each person will be a very subjective thing...way of wrapping up 5 years of an on-going story, which most TV shows do). The first half of season 3 did that A LOT.

*Conveniently disregarding things that they/themselves took time to build up.

For example, many people asked "Why does anyone give a flying heck about Mutagen Man aka Timothy?" Honestly? I don't think many of them do. But it's the fact they they took literally three episodes to build this character up. Both as human and his alternate form. Think about that. They used as many episodes as this 'ending to 5 years of story-telling aka The Finale' to build up a guy who then they just stuck in a tube, and was last seen at the bottom of some water and such. If that was the case, why not just be 'one and done with it'?

Heck, you could have taken two of those episodes to give folks a story between Mikey & Raph, or Raph & Donnie (hey they work with each other, deal with each other, using each other to help the family, etc.) or give another part to a more integral story that was otherwise felt rushed by some viewers.

How about all that time with Raph's pet turtle Spike, leading to Slash, which lead to...eh...once in a while showing up? Did he even get a mention in the finale aka any three parts? (if so, I apologize). Or perhaps that was part of the 'Raph doesn't remember much' characteristic that they threw onto him...thus not to worry about that kind of stuff.

And of course...if you're going to lead people on for 5 years with this whole Don/April thing? Then this whole 'well, maybe a music video that not everyone would have seen, but hey perhaps that is the end of that' instead of referencing a single bit in your 'actual finale'? It doesn't cut it. That's just Poor Development.


*Rushing Critical/Emotional Moments, especially in Endings.

How many times has one scene an episode, or an idea, or something that could be filled with many emotional possibilities...and then they either ruin it with a 'wtf' joke (Casey's line after the Earth blow up) or especially Rush It. Even people who enjoyed the episode have admitted that the wrap-up was rushed. How do you do that when you have THREE Episodes to work with your finale?



There is more I could write, but this post is getting long in the tooth as is...and I can also understand what others have typed out about how it all feels kind of pointless.

How many episodes were there to 'find mutagen so that folks didn't get turned into mutants'...then to find out 'well, uh, never mind. They did all get turned'.

I don't really understand Powder's comparison to 'marriage' and 'pets' and such to this whole thing. To me, those are two very different mindsets.

Them trying to save people from being turned into mutants was just not them 'enjoying the adventure'. Sure, that's part of what life is...but they also kinda failed in their 'job', if you call it that.

That would be like if the Ghostbusters didn't stop one of the apocalypses so now ghosts ran the Earth...but it's ok because 'at least they enjoyed the journey/adventure'. Sorry Powder, but I will just respectfully agree to disagree with you on that.

[Powder]

The point is folks are acting like an unsatisfying finale retroactively undoes all the fun that was had leading up to it, which is absolutely ridiculous. It's about you, the viewer, 'enjoying the adventure'.

[matteso586]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

It is canon, and Ciro intends it to be. It's just some people who don't like it want to be an alternate universe type thing.

Did you forget about Renet? And claims that the Turtles are going to become legendary heroes? So Mutant Apocalypse is obviously an alternate universe.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by Powder

The point is folks are acting like an unsatisfying finale retroactively undoes all the fun that was had leading up to it, which is absolutely ridiculous. It's about you, the viewer, 'enjoying the adventure'.

Because for some people? If they become emotionally attached to the characters, then of course they want them to end up in a good spot and ride off into the sunset. Thus when they rewatch the show later on? In the back of their head they go 'it'll work out at the end'. And perhaps the people who didn't like it do not see it that way, and instead see it as kind of a bleak sunset (one stuck in a robot body who will probably outlive his brothers, one who lost a lot of his memory, one stuck as a slave with the body of Bane from Batman...four brothers apart for quite a few decades, multiple characters not even mentioned and more than likely dead, and more) for a show that had an episode about a killer pizza, and another episode about evil squirrels.

And I can understand their point of view. I enjoy the show Quantum Leap. But when the finale episode aired and it just said 'And Sam never returned home...' That did disappoint me and soured me a little bit on the show (I still like it, but still think the ending sucks). So I get where they are coming from.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

And I can understand their point of view. I enjoy the show Quantum Leap. But when the finale episode aired and it just said 'And Sam never returned home...' That did disappoint me and soured me a little bit on the show (I still like it, but still think the ending sucks). So I get where they are coming from.

and that was probably done out of spite, too...because cancelling the show put the producers in a hard spot, and they had to wrap things up fast, so that was the easiest way to do it.

but, i don't want to be seen as 'whining' again...sigh. honestly this place sometimes.

[NinjaPug]

Originally Posted by matteso586

Did you forget about Renet? And claims that the Turtles are going to become legendary heroes? So Mutant Apocalypse is obviously an alternate universe.

Who says they didn't in the 50 years prior to Mutant Apocalypse?

I'm amazed at the leaps people are making to discredit the finale as being canon just because they didn't like it.

[newfan]

and that was probably done out of spite, too...because cancelling the show put the producers in a hard spot, and they had to wrap things up fast, so that was the easiest way to do it.

I did joke about the finale (before we actually saw it) being the writers reaction to being dumped for a 'lighter younger feel' but I don't really think that, I can't imagine they wouldn't end it how they wanted.
Speaking of that it was pretty crappy of Nick to cancel this show and announce the new show right away.

Did you forget about Renet? And claims that the Turtles are going to become legendary heroes? So Mutant Apocalypse is obviously an alternate universe.

I guess it depends when the bomb went off, we could have done with that being confirmed. Also, how far in the the future is Renet from?

[Redworld96]

From my point of view I think the bomb was something immediately and close to the last events with Wanted: Bebop and Rocksteady (some months after that).
If only Ciro could reveal when exactly the bomb happened

[newfan]

Originally Posted by Redworld96

From my point of view I think the bomb was something immediately and close to the last events with Wanted: Bebop and Rocksteady (some months after that).
If only Ciro could reveal when exactly the bomb happened

He did say people would be talking about it for a long time, I wonder if that's also to do with the unanswered questions?

Still, there is the story he's working on, whatever that turns out to be maybe it will answer some things.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by newfan

He did say people would be talking about it for a long time

People here maybe. Not so sure it'll be seen as anything other than a bizarre ending by most people who know about the production order, anyone else will think the show ends on Bebop expressing his desire to dance.

Originally Posted by newfan

Still, there is the story he's working on, whatever that turns out to be maybe it will answer some things.

What story?