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Old 10-17-2017, 11:49 PM   #41
d_osborn
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That's generally true of most workprints/assembly cuts. They're rough, unrefined, and more importantly, unfinished. If you're a cinephile and are interested in editing, they can be fun and interesting. A workprint for Beetlejuice floated around a few years and it had a few different scenes, including an alternate scene that was eventually replaced with the sandworm's introduction, which strangely appeared later in the cut, when the characters are hanging out the window.
Was it the entire workprint of Beetlejuice? I've seen some of the different scenes that popped up, but never the entire cut.

The Barron/Menke edit is one of my holy grails.

https://youtu.be/IrCEhRNgGHY?t=5s
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Old 10-18-2017, 05:06 PM   #42
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Was it the entire workprint of Beetlejuice? I've seen some of the different scenes that popped up, but never the entire cut.

The Barron/Menke edit is one of my holy grails.

https://youtu.be/IrCEhRNgGHY?t=5s
I've only seen individual scenes as well. There are three of them that I know of. The first is an alternate scene where instead of Alec Baldwin walking into a desert and encountering a sandworm, he ends up in some sort of abstract blackness with turning cogs. The second scene is Lydia being ridiculed by her stepmom for "cutting holes" in her sheets. And the third is Alec Baldwin and Geena Davis hanging from the window to hide from everybody as they do in the final cut, except there is a brief moment where a sandworm is attacking them.

From what I understand, this cut is floating around somewhere, but I could be wrong. These scenes are definitely from it, so someone got their hands on it.

I would love to see the Barrons/Menke cut, as well. And, jeeze, is it too much ask for some special features?
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Old 10-26-2017, 09:31 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by sgtfbomb View Post
That's generally true of most workprints/assembly cuts. They're rough, unrefined, and more importantly, unfinished. If you're a cinephile and are interested in editing, they can be fun and interesting.
Oh yeah definitely. The only thing I would have kept from the original cut was Ray (Tom Hanks) explaining that he was fired.
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Old 10-31-2017, 12:23 PM   #44
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I've hated that part ever since I was a little kid. Not only was it totally foolish on Leo's part, but Shredder had him dead to rights for an easy killing blow, but he just kicked him to the side.
I don't know...I've never minded that part. If anything, that one sequence reminds me in that moment that these turtles are still kids in most respects. They may be trained ninjas, but they are still teenagers and that often comes with a lot of emotional turmoil. Considering their mentor/father figure was kidnapped (and presumed killed) and the kidnapper was taunting them, an irrational lashing out seems right in line with the age of the character.

As for why Shredder didn't kill Leo in that moment...I thought it was pretty clear. Shredder even admitted that "The three of you could have overpowered me with the loss of but one". If he'd have killed Leo immediately, he'd still have 3 pissed armed ninjas to deal with and there was a chance he'd lose. By keeping Leo alive, Shredder leveraged his position to disarm the turtles, taking away an edge they had. Keeping Leo alive was a tactical move. He did it to increase his odds of victory.
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Old 10-31-2017, 02:12 PM   #45
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Well said. Gotta say I feel the same.
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:26 PM   #46
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Digitally add Rocksteady & Beebop alongside all of the Shredders scenes.

Digitally change knee and elbow pads to their respective colors and add the initials of the turtles to their belts.

Replace Raphael's Damn for a Darn.
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:56 PM   #47
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Oh yeah definitely. The only thing I would have kept from the original cut was Ray (Tom Hanks) explaining that he was fired.
I like the underlying element that gives the film, but even in the workprint, it feels tossed in. Ultimately, I think all the changes made for the theatrical cut are large improvement for the film, particularly the ending, breaking in Walter's house, and the nightmare scene. Although, I do like bits here and there, like the "one or two sacrifices" line and having the boss (played by Kevin McCarthy) in the nightmare, but it made more sense keeping the focus in the neighborhood.
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Old 11-01-2017, 01:32 AM   #48
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Other than *maybe* digitally re-master and the choice between widescreen and full screen, I wouldn't change the movie.

I would have a section to see deleted scenes.

and

I would have multiple movie commentaries with some of the actors and directors and Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird doing a commentary on the movie together.
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:19 AM   #49
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the choice between widescreen and full screen
That's a dead choice anymore. Movies are only released in their original aspect ratio on Blu Ray (with exceptions, such as Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, because it was intended to be a Made for Video, but had to be reformatted once WB decided to release it in theaters instead) and they don't put out new DVDs with full screen versions anymore. Since most people have moved on from tube TVs, full screen is no longer a relevant option. We no longer destroy the picture by lopping off 25 to 50% of the picture and using cheap "Pan & Scan" techniques. Instead, we use Auto Motion Plus.

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Old 11-01-2017, 11:30 AM   #50
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Not all pan and scan movies were created equal though, especially movies made after pan and scan became a thing as many movies were shot with pan and scan in mind. That leaves us with some movies that were actually cropped for cinemas and even more common movies were neither version can ever be a definitive version as there will always be missing footage.

The X-Files is the only example I can easily google so yeah a matter of preference in this case if you prefer more "side" information or more "upper/lower" information. In some movies the choice is easy, in others it depends on the scene.
Spoiler:




I'm not saying TMNT 1990 is like this but I know its true for Jurassic Park where the VHS actually has extra information that the "superior" widescreen format doesn't have.
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Old 11-01-2017, 02:59 PM   #51
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It's not about gaining footage. It's about artistic intentions.

Movies are shot with the intention of a certain aspect ratio. Yes, it's true that many films were shot using Super 35, in which the cells were 1:33:1, and then cropped, as it was intended. One of the conveniences of Super 35 was it didn't necessarily have to be Pan & Scanned for the VHS releases, back when TV were 1:33:1, which has been outdated for over a decade now, even longer technically. It was a necessary evil that most of us had to live with because that's the way TVs were designed at the time. To someone who cares about movies, 16:9 TVs were a welcome change.

Furthermore, The X-Files was a TV show. The first several seasons were filmed and intentionally cropped for 4:3 and later seasons were filmed with intention of 16:9. However, if I recall this is a special case because they had hoped to use the 16:9 frame one day. A TV show thinking about such a thing is a rarity. Take Friends, for example. It was shot in 16:9, but the early seasons never intended to use the full picture, so outside the 4:6 boundary, there were crew members, actors out of character, parts of the set, etc. For HD broadcasts, they attempted to use the original uncropped footage, but the flubs were clearly visible. So when it came time to do the Blu Ray version, they had to reframe it. This is most likely true of most shows at the time.

The same thing happened to Super 35 and VHS. A couples examples I can think of are Jaws the Revenge (one uncropped shot revealed the inner workings and mechanical track of the shark) and TMNT (the top of the NYC backdrop during Shredder's POV charge). I'm pretty sure Child's Play and Spaceballs were a couple of other examples that revealed new flubs in their fullscreen versions.

Most importantly, a fullscreen option is pointless with TMNT '90. Its ratio is 1:85:1 which isn't a far cry from the 16:9 ratio, which all TVs have now.

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Old 11-01-2017, 03:17 PM   #52
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I don't know...I've never minded that part. If anything, that one sequence reminds me in that moment that these turtles are still kids in most respects. They may be trained ninjas, but they are still teenagers and that often comes with a lot of emotional turmoil. Considering their mentor/father figure was kidnapped (and presumed killed) and the kidnapper was taunting them, an irrational lashing out seems right in line with the age of the character.
That's looking at being a teenager through a very human, very western lens. Don't. Growing up a teenager in a home with TV, school, school sports, popular kids, unpopular kids, "what do I wear today??", prom, etc., is quite different than growing up as a teenager in a sewer you've spent your whole life in, conditioned from almost birth by your "Dad" whose everyday main purpose is raising you to one day kill a man who is a master ninja. Most of the nonsense we equate to "average angsty teenagers" simply doesn't and cannot apply no matter how much various TMNT writers want it to ("I've always complained that the TMNT aren't like teenagers enough!!" blah blah).

Last edited by Andrew NDB; 11-01-2017 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:05 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by sgtfbomb View Post
It's not about gaining footage. It's about artistic intentions.

Movies are shot with the intention of a certain aspect ratio. Yes, it's true that many films were shot using Super 35, in which the cells were 1:33:1, and then cropped, as it was intended. One of the conveniences of Super 35 was it didn't necessarily have to be Pan & Scanned for the VHS releases, back when TV were 1:33:1, which has been outdated for over a decade now, even longer technically. It was a necessary evil that most of us had to live with because that's the way TVs were designed at the time. To someone who cares about movies, 16:9 TVs were a welcome change.

Furthermore, The X-Files was a TV show. The first several seasons were filmed and intentionally cropped for 4:3 and later seasons were filmed with intention of 16:9. However, if I recall this is a special case because they had hoped to use the 16:9 frame one day. A TV show thinking about such a thing is a rarity. Take Friends, for example. It was shot in 16:9, but the early seasons never intended to use the full picture, so outside the 4:6 boundary, there were crew members, actors out of character, parts of the set, etc. For HD broadcasts, they attempted to use the original uncropped footage, but the flubs were clearly visible. So when it came time to do the Blu Ray version, they had to reframe it. This is most likely true of most shows at the time.

The same thing happened to Super 35 and VHS. A couples examples I can think of are Jaws the Revenge (one uncropped shot revealed the inner workings and mechanical track of the shark) and TMNT (the top of the NYC backdrop during Shredder's POV charge). I'm pretty sure Child's Play and Spaceballs were a couple of other examples that revealed new flubs in their fullscreen versions.

Most importantly, a fullscreen option is pointless with TMNT '90. Its ratio is 1:85:1 which isn't a far cry from the 16:9 ratio, which all TVs have now.
We don't know what the artistic intentions for TMNT 1990 were though, and I had already mentioned in my post that some movies were made with pan and scan in mind, I only used X-Files since it was the easiest example to google but its also true for Jurassic Park and other movies.

This isn't the early 00's when we had to fight because some movies only got full screen releases and it was easy to be given as a gift a DVD in fullscreen, that era is gone. You just went full on movie geek on the other member which is why I'm even defending it, if he wants full screen in a hypothetical special edition then let him have it. I'm not going to take your widescreen movies away
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Old 11-01-2017, 09:33 PM   #54
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"Has that horrible movie arrived here too ?" , the way he said it gave me a chuckle (late film critic Pål Bang Hansen upon hearing of TMNTs arrival in Norwegian cinemas , he had just been to Hwood)

He wasnt a fan of Police Academy films either although he admitted kids would enjoy them.

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Old 11-02-2017, 10:31 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by sgtfbomb View Post
I like the underlying element that gives the film, but even in the workprint, it feels tossed in. Ultimately, I think all the changes made for the theatrical cut are large improvement for the film, particularly the ending, breaking in Walter's house, and the nightmare scene. Although, I do like bits here and there, like the "one or two sacrifices" line and having the boss (played by Kevin McCarthy) in the nightmare, but it made more sense keeping the focus in the neighborhood.
Yeah mostly like them all entering Walter's house which was much better than what happened in the original cut but I kind of feel having Tom Hanks character fired gives him an excuse as to why he's on holiday depressed.

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It's not about gaining footage. It's about artistic intentions.
See how Buffy turned out in HD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtfbomb View Post
Furthermore, The X-Files was a TV show. The first several seasons were filmed and intentionally cropped for 4:3 and later seasons were filmed with intention of 16:9. However, if I recall this is a special case because they had hoped to use the 16:9 frame one day. A TV show thinking about such a thing is a rarity. Take Friends, for example. It was shot in 16:9, but the early seasons never intended to use the full picture, so outside the 4:6 boundary, there were crew members, actors out of character, parts of the set, etc. For HD broadcasts, they attempted to use the original uncropped footage, but the flubs were clearly visible. So when it came time to do the Blu Ray version, they had to reframe it. This is most likely true of most shows at the time.
Space: Above And Beyond came out in the mid-90s and that show was shot in HD and filmed in widescreen. Same goes for Space Precinct. Unfortunately no one yet has taken advantage on how those shows are supposed to be shown on home entertainment formats. Maybe one day.
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Old 11-10-2017, 01:16 PM   #56
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Special edition a la Star Wars? No changes. Maybe a new remaster, though.

As for bonus features, I'd include all the content from the first film's German DVD (commentary, alternate ending and takes), and include the Behind the Shells special with the second film.
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Old 11-11-2017, 03:07 PM   #57
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Yeah mostly like them all entering Walter's house which was much better than what happened in the original cut but I kind of feel having Tom Hanks character fired gives him an excuse as to why he's on holiday depressed.
Red rover, red rover, send ART right on over!

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Old Yesterday, 09:25 AM   #58
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Red rover, red rover, send ART right on over!
I loved the bit where Bruce Dern's character fell off the roof, sniped the car window while Corey Feldman and co are around saying "dude that was fantastic".
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