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Old 12-12-2017, 12:32 PM   #21
MikeandRaph87
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Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo View Post
Your theory was pretty interesting. Glad to see I'm not the only one who loves speculating about this stuff

I bet that if humans did capture an alien in real life responsible for crimes in the human world such as genocide, destruction of public property, he would be tried as long as he has the ability to reason like people (which Krang does).
I have quite a few more and ways of integrating Agent Bishop and General Blanque into the 1987 cartoonverse.

The thread about the four and a half year dead period where fandom was confined to the Ring of Green and ninjaturtles.com as run by Molly Bode adn later Dan Berger? I was doing the above.

Your theory has a hole in it as it tries to incorporate the crossovers with the 1987 cartoon. The '87 set have visited the Mirageverse twice and seemed like it was their first time both times. Trying to make a Krang a rejected utrom exiled to another Earth makes little sense. Not to mention the behavior of the '87 set being so cowardly and fighting pizza goblins? The two separate crossovers just cannot fit into the 1987 cartoon.
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Old 12-12-2017, 12:42 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87 View Post
Your theory has a hole in it as it tries to incorporate the crossovers with the 1987 cartoon. The '87 set have visited the Mirageverse twice and seemed like it was their first time both times. Trying to make a Krang a rejected utrom exiled to another Earth makes little sense. Not to mention the behavior of the '87 set being so cowardly and fighting pizza goblins? The two separate crossovers just cannot fit into the 1987 cartoon.
The only crossovers I counted were the Nick ones, I think there are too many irreconcilable differences between the Original Cartoon and Turtles Forever to make it canon.

Even for Mirage, Turtles Forever has an awesome depiction of their turtles but it really didn't put continuity on its priority list, as there is no way it could take place anywhere in Volume 1, Issue 1 where Shredder was still alive. Nick's depiction of Mirage on the other hand, doesn't really have any continuity errors.
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Old 12-12-2017, 12:50 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo View Post
The only crossovers I counted were the Nick ones, I think there are too many irreconcilable differences between the Original Cartoon and Turtles Forever to make it canon.

Even for Mirage, Turtles Forever has an awesome depiction of their turtles but it really didn't put continuity on its priority list, as there is no way it could take place anywhere in Volume 1, Issue 1 where Shredder was still alive. Nick's depiction of Mirage on the other hand, doesn't really have any continuity errors.
The problem with Nick is #1 Krang is not an utrom from Nick banished by Kraang Prime for trying to blow up all of reality. That was Ch'rell's thing and Krang stood against it as he is a conqueror. You have to keep the universe around if you want to rule over it. I also had issue with the Nick Turtles teaching the '87 Turtles how to fight. It felt like it was downgrading "my" Turtles.

I also have other ideas I can share and I also want to hear/read others of yours about the 1987 cartoon universe.
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Old 12-12-2017, 01:09 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87 View Post
The problem with Nick is #1 Krang is not an utrom from Nick banished by Kraang Prime for trying to blow up all of reality. That was Ch'rell's thing and Krang stood against it as he is a conqueror. You have to keep the universe around if you want to rule over it. I also had issue with the Nick Turtles teaching the '87 Turtles how to fight. It felt like it was downgrading "my" Turtles.
Turtles Forever and the Nick crossovers had a different depiction of Krang's intention. In the former, he wasn't as insane as Chrell, but in the latter, he was a megalomaniac intent on destroying the entire world. While I thought Krang and Shredder siding with the TUrtles in TF was very cool, I thought their depiction in Turtles Forever was more accurate as they really wanted to destroy the entire world in the Original Cartoon lots of times, such as in the Big Blow Out when Krang ordered his Rock Soldiers to open fire on earth as soon as it entered Dimension X. He most likely wanted to terraform it into a Dimension X like landscape.

I really didn't mind the Nick Turtles training their 80s counterparts since the 80s turtles did have a different fighting style dependent on cartoon physics like pushing cardboard boxes and using fire hydrants on villains. Not to mention that long after, the 80s turtles were kicking shell competently in the more realistic world of the Nick turtles later on anyway. Atleast its much more accurate than having the turtles do noogies, not take anything seriously, cower away from battle and cry after trash cans get destroyed which they never did in the old show.

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I also have other ideas I can share and I also want to hear/read others of yours about the 1987 cartoon universe.
Me too. I intend to read your fanfiction about Red Sky tmnt soon.
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Old 12-12-2017, 01:18 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo View Post
Turtles Forever and the Nick crossovers had a different depiction of Krang's intention. In the former, he wasn't as insane as Chrell, but in the latter, he was a megalomaniac intent on destroying the entire world. While I thought Krang and Shredder siding with the TUrtles in TF was very cool, I thought their depiction in Turtles Forever was more accurate as they really wanted to destroy the entire world in the Original Cartoon lots of times, such as in the Big Blow Out when Krang ordered his Rock Soldiers to open fire on earth as soon as it entered Dimension X. He most likely wanted to terraform it into a Dimension X like landscape.

I really didn't mind the Nick Turtles training their 80s counterparts since the 80s turtles did have a different fighting style dependent on cartoon physics like pushing cardboard boxes and using fire hydrants on villains. Not to mention that long after, the 80s turtles were kicking shell competently in the more realistic world of the Nick turtles. Atleast its much more accurate than having the turtles do noogies and cry after trash cans get destroyed which they never did in the old show.



Me too. I intend to read your fanfiction about Red Sky tmnt soon.
I want "my" Turtles to do the instructing not being instructed. Yes, its favoritism and being very picky in how they are depicted. I would have loved to have David Wise on board as a consultant for such projects. I know they were silly. The harder edged red sky was how I view them in how I want them portrayed. Just Shredder and Krang no Dregg and Carter.

So I have an in-story idea of how to get April back at Channel Six, tie Krakus in with Burne and tie him with Landor and Merrick, give Rat King an origin that makes sense of his actions down to his affinity for redheads,how to work in Agent Bishop and General Blanque, a conclusion for Dregg and Titanus and an antihero Razhar and Tokka.
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Old 12-12-2017, 02:11 PM   #26
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I want "my" Turtles to do the instructing not being instructed.
Dude, the original Turtles were never very good fighters. I love the original cartoon, but let's face it, they literally are the worst fighters of all the cartoon Turtles. Even in the more "serious" seasons like Seasons 1, 7, etc...they were still just doing basic martial arts.

The amount of fighting skills and enemies the 2k3 and Nick Turtles faced were far more dangerous than anything in the original cartoon.
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Old 12-12-2017, 02:46 PM   #27
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Dude, the original Turtles were never very good fighters. I love the original cartoon, but let's face it, they literally are the worst fighters of all the cartoon Turtles. Even in the more "serious" seasons like Seasons 1, 7, etc...they were still just doing basic martial arts.

The amount of fighting skills and enemies the 2k3 and Nick Turtles faced were far more dangerous than anything in the original cartoon.
I have to agree with Mr. Cubed. There were times in Red Sky (and I assume before) where all of Raph's action consisted of just him throwing his sais. Like, that's all he did. Then there was that Mona Lisa ep where all they did was run from the monsters when you figure Raph the ninja turtle should at least put up a fight.

There was an ep where Shredder had em surrounded by tons of Foot Soldiers and they mostly did 'well, it was nice knowin ya guys' jokes when you expect the 4 of them to be able to ckean house.

I would have loved a 4th wall joke where the 80s turtles realize they are no longer limited by 80s budget animation and do all sorts of sweet ninja moves and even have Mikey say 'Cowabunga, I can use my chucks again!'
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Old 12-12-2017, 06:47 PM   #28
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Dude, the original Turtles were never very good fighters. I love the original cartoon, but let's face it, they literally are the worst fighters of all the cartoon Turtles. Even in the more "serious" seasons like Seasons 1, 7, etc...they were still just doing basic martial arts.

The amount of fighting skills and enemies the 2k3 and Nick Turtles faced were far more dangerous than anything in the original cartoon.
Yeah it's pretty hard to deny.
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Turtles is basically the red-headed stepchild of Nick.
Hahahaha!
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Old 12-12-2017, 07:03 PM   #29
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I would have would have loved a 4th wall joke where the 80s turtles realize they are no longer limited by 80s budget animation and do all sorts of sweet ninja moves and even have Mikey say 'Cowabunga, I can use my chucks again!'
Yes! It was a missed opportunity not including a reference to Michelangelo being allowed to his nunchucks again.

1987 Shredder was so limited he is the most unused potential of any villain of any TMNT incarnation. I wonder whst vicious acts he could have pilled off without any censorship.
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Old 12-13-2017, 04:19 PM   #30
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I have quite a few more and ways of integrating Agent Bishop and General Blanque into the 1987 cartoonverse.
You had Hoffman in the original series, who tried to capture the turtles in "Invasion of the Punk Frogs".
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Old 12-13-2017, 05:50 PM   #31
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There were usually various government agencies in the various series looking to capture Turtles, or other mutants and aliens. Mirage and Archie comics did the same thing with the U.S. government or Darpa capturing the Turtles or aliens. It took all the way till the 4kids series to give us an actual character like Agent Bishop to basically be the main character behind these storylines.

That's probably why he worked so well among other things because before that we just had various grunts/soldiers looking to do the same thing. Dirk Savage from Season 7 is another similar concept, or Darkwater from Season 8, or Hoffman from Season 2 who went after the Punk Frogs. Bishop and the EPF essentially replaced all these lesser concepts and unified them going forward.
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Old 12-13-2017, 06:30 PM   #32
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You had Hoffman in the original series, who tried to capture the turtles in "Invasion of the Punk Frogs".
True, he was a one-off character unfortunately. Potential there. My idea had Agent Bishop as Wesley Knight's boss and the one who conducted the experiments on Alex Winter. That made me get a kick at the IDW developlment!

Hoffman could be the brother/step-brother of Dirk Savage, who was inspired by Hoffman and wanted to take on his relative's crusade after the mayor swept it away in embarrassment following the revelation of the shadowed crusaders alignment. Hoffman's name was mud and motivated Savage into buying into A.J. Howard's campaign. As for Hoffman returning? I would have to think about it.
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:09 AM   #33
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Maybe Krang's super portal generator started splitting the dimensional barrier accidentally and it permanently caused the sky to turn red? It might explain why we got a green sky in some of the outer space scenes in Season 8 and 10.
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Old 12-14-2017, 11:33 AM   #34
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There were usually various government agencies in the various series looking to capture Turtles, or other mutants and aliens. Mirage and Archie comics did the same thing with the U.S. government or Darpa capturing the Turtles or aliens. It took all the way till the 4kids series to give us an actual character like Agent Bishop to basically be the main character behind these storylines.
Michelangelo was captured in the Archieverse.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:17 PM   #35
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Maybe Krang's super portal generator started splitting the dimensional barrier accidentally and it permanently caused the sky to turn red? It might explain why we got a green sky in some of the outer space scenes in Season 8 and 10.
I sort of see it in that sort of way, that the multiple dimensional crossings occuring in the 1987 turtleverse (to either Dimension X, other turtle realities etc.) would eventually cause dimensional disturbances that cause changes to occur in their homeworld.

About the Nick crossovers, although this is a bit off topic, I love how you can either see them as the end of the 87 show (Shredder and Krang finally captured, while B and R turn good), or as a pathway into the Red Sky seasons. I see them as both, as canonically taking place between season 7 and 8, but also as the final closure for the "Classic" era of the 80s show in a way that is happy and satisfying.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:52 PM   #36
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My impression of the changes was that it had to do with constant attacks by forces from Dimension X and that the TMNT were unable to cope with this much going on without buildings being destroyed and such. The red sky could have been the result of a failed plan to conquer the Earth.

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Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
Dude, the original Turtles were never very good fighters. I love the original cartoon, but let's face it, they literally are the worst fighters of all the cartoon Turtles. Even in the more "serious" seasons like Seasons 1, 7, etc...they were still just doing basic martial arts.

The amount of fighting skills and enemies the 2k3 and Nick Turtles faced were far more dangerous than anything in the original cartoon.
To be fair the villains in the FW series weren't presented as threatening as the Nick or 2003 series ones. Different universes, different rules.

Last edited by pferreira; 12-21-2017 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:15 PM   #37
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To be fair the villains in the FW series weren't presented as threatening as the Nick or 2003 series ones. Different universes, different rules.
To be fair as well, Shredder and Krang were extremely dangerous when the technodrome was moving (even more so than many 2k3 and Nick villains) but were defeated by either their own arrogance, Bebop and Rocksteady screwing up or the turtles using cartoon logic.

The Nick crossover actually does them justice by showing the technodrome absolutely decimating 3D New York City while all the military's weapons have no affect on it. They were even more dangerous in that since there was no cartoony way to beat them, and they had a much more competent mutant duo. Even the classic Foot Soldiers, who sucked in the Original Show, were very threatening in this as they held their own against the EPF, the turtles, Mighty Mutanimals and Human Foot Soldiers.
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:22 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo View Post
To be fair as well, Shredder and Krang were extremely dangerous when the technodrome was moving (even more so than many 2k3 and Nick villains) but were defeated by either their own arrogance, Bebop and Rocksteady screwing up or the turtles using cartoon logic.

The Nick crossover actually does them justice by showing the technodrome absolutely decimating 3D New York City while all the military's weapons have no affect on it. They were even more dangerous in that since there was no cartoony way to beat them, and they had a much more competent mutant duo. Even the classic Foot Soldiers, who sucked in the Original Show, were very threatening in this as they held their own against the EPF, the turtles, Mighty Mutanimals and Human Foot Soldiers.
The biggest villain were the censors. What could they do without being held back is my question. Shredder could have done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter,but think of the possibilities if the censors were not an issue.Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villain in all of the cartoons.
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:26 PM   #39
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The biggest villain were the censors.
Oh My, I can't even. I love this!

Mind if I use it as my signature?
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:37 PM   #40
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Oh My, I can't even. I love this!

Mind if I use it as my signature?
Of course! That is the true reason the TMNT went to the point of goofiness and Shredder/Krang were inept to getting their battle machine capable of rolling over anywhere and everywhere in exchange for ruling over it. Why was Ch'rell more threatening than Shredder? Weakened censors! Why did Shredder kill Hamato Yoshi/Splinter in his fourth attempt? Further weakened censors!
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